S06E121 BISON 15 - Coaching CrossFit Standards Without Killing The Vibe - Adam Ramsden

We sit down with CrossFit Bison coach Adam Ramsden @w.a.ramsden to talk about how a “standards first” mindset evolves when you’re coaching real humans with real lives. We dig into how to protect honest reps for competitive athletes while still giving everyday members the grace to train, learn, and come back tomorrow.

• early coaching identity as the standards enforcer
• separating competitive expectations from community participation
• when to correct depth and lockout without stopping the workout
• handling leaderboard pressure and validating scores in class
• logging limited range of motion honestly without shame
• youth training philosophy focused on safe technique first
• why multi-sport builds athleticism better than only CrossFit
• athlete tools for better standards like warm-ups and filming reps
• dealing with eye rolls and pushback while keeping safety non-negotiable

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Standards Matter

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hi, welcome to another episode of Botox and Burpees The Bison 15. I have with me very special guest, longtime coach at CrossFit Bison, Adam Ramsen. He was uh number coach three or four really early in the sequence in terms of being hired. And um as instrumental as anyone uh has been over the past um 10 plus years uh growing bison, making it what it is, um, he is called the professor for a reason because he is quite the uh cerebral intellectual and uh person who has possibly some of the most knowledge about CrossFit and uh CrossFit coaching uh around. So uh with that, um we're gonna try to keep it to 15, but uh we'll we'll let it run if it needs to, whatever works. Um so Adam, I know we just talked about it. You want to talk a little bit about how your coaching and your instruction has evolved over time. So so start with that and tell me uh what that is really.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah, I mean, um I think when I first uh joined Bison and uh, you know, going through the open a couple times, um, you know, we took it very seriously right from the beginning, you know. Uh that was kind of like a mantra that um we were very serious about the open. It was, you know, important, and we've talked, you know, over episodes um about all the reasons why it is important. So I think I started when I started coaching, um, I thought of myself as the standards guy. Like let's keep everybody to full range of motion. If you're not squatting down, are we really you know, counting those reps? Um, and I think over the years of coaching, I I've softened on that definitely.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Because yeah, when I was when you were my judge during the open, you you held me to those burpee standards pretty, pretty tight, which I appreciate very much.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Yeah, I I I think if um you know we need to kind of make a separation of those athletes that are trying to be competitive, you know, and the athletes that are just coming in and they want to be part of the open, you know, you never want to uh put them in a situation where you're kind of like giving them a really strict standard when they're just there to be part of the gym and be part of the community, you know. Um, so so the standards are definitely needed. You know, we see videos every year of the open, every year of quarterfinals, semifinals about, you know, athletes not hitting standards. And if you're going to be competitive, yes, you need to be held to um a higher standard, you know. So uh back when we did the bison brawl, you know, I was constantly walking around making sure that we were hitting standards because that was our in-house comp or our, you know, the comp that we were putting out there. Uh so holding to the standard was important. But in a normal Thursday night class, you know, uh if somebody says, you know, I noticed so-and-so wasn't really full hitting full depth in their wall balls, I'll kind of just say, like, I've softened on that. Let them get come in, get a workout in. Um, and if they have aspirations to be competitive in the future, then they know that they're gonna be held to those standards.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

So

From Strict Judge To More Grace

SPEAKER_01 3:10

what made you change over all this time? Because um Aren't we sort of shorting our athletes if we're not sort of getting them to what we think the standard is? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

And I think, you know, I'm always gonna remind somebody to try to get a little bit more depth in um their squat or, you know, to make sure their chest is touching the ground on a push-up or a burpee. Um, but you know, if I'm gonna beat a dead horse and stop somebody from working out and say, you know, we can't count these reps because you you never know what's going on in somebody's life. They they just want to get in there, they want to have the best hour of their day, you know, and that's our job is to provide that for them. Um so yeah, I I I think I'll always go over the standards, I'll always demo the standards, and you know, we'll coach through that during the workout. Um, but I think I've gotten over the fact where I'm gonna stop somebody and say, listen, you know, you've got to make sure your chest is touching the ground every single burpee. You missed three there, so go do another three reps, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Um, I uh I get you and I I understand what you're saying, and I I f agree, but on the other hand, it hurts, it it physically hurts my heart if we have like a push-up workout and I see someone literally like, you know, just like bowing down, like you know, just like swaying or or doing those snakey push-ups, like um what do you say to someone who's like clearly just not even like uh in the ball? Do you say anything?

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Yeah, absolutely. You have to say something. And you know, it's something where again, it's gonna be individual athlete dependent, right? If you have somebody that it's their third week and they're still getting to learn the movements and the standards, and some of the, you know, some of the movements have a lot of different standards. You know, I was coaching a wall walk last Thursday night, and it's just to think about starting the rep in the same position. You know, are your hands allowed to move before both feet are on the wall? You know, and CrossFit hasn't been great about setting exact standards. You know, one year we'll take the judges' course and it'll say both feet have to be on the wall before your hands can move. Sometimes last year it was both feet have to be off the ground before your hands can move. So, you know, we're in a sticky situation where we've got these standards that we want to hold, and we'll demo them and you know, explain them at the beginning of the workout. Um, and so somebody needs to be reminded. But if it's an athlete that's been in the gym for five years, yeah, you could be a little bit more, you know, serious of the tone you take and say, listen, it's been going on for a long time now. We need to work towards the standard a little bit better.

Competitive Athletes And Valid Scores

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Uh, what do you think about the uber competitive person in the gym? Because I I'm thinking about them, and they're just sort of like not getting the thruster depth, maybe because they're moving so fast. And these are people that might not take very kindly to someone saying, hey, listen, like you really are not meeting standards.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah. And I think, you know, there's issues that come up with that too, is that, you know, you have to think about other people in the class. Now they're going on push press looking at your score, and they're gonna say, well, you know, um uh is that score really valid or did something happen here? So um I think if you want to quell those little talks, you've got to be responsible about hitting the standards yourself, you know. And maybe if um you're not sure about where you are on your thruster death, ask the coach to take a look at you. You know, I think that's something that a bunch of athletes have said to me, hey, do me a favor, just watch a couple reps and just make sure I'm hitting the standard. And that's easy to do. Um, and it's something that, you know, gives me as a coach the ability to kind of always check in on that athlete, especially those uber competitive athletes who normally move very well. Um, it just gives an extra thing that I can check in on and and let them know about.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Let me give you another scenario because I'm thinking about all the places where I've been like sort of stuck. Um, back squat day and guys doing, you know, 185 hitting depth, 195, hitting depth, hits 225, and suddenly it it gets really hard, and he's just not getting quite there. But he's so pleased with himself after finishing that set. Like, oh my gosh, I I I I made it. Like, what do you talk to that person? Do you just let it go? Like, what do you what is your what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 7:57

I think I've had conversations going way back. Um, we had an athlete years ago that, you know, for uh reasons, you know, of injury history and everything like that, just could not hit depth on a back squat. Um, so on his scores, I I, you know, I had a conversation with him and I said, I'm gonna put range of motion next to your score on the whiteboard just so you know that, you know, we're not hitting that full depth squat, but you're going to your capabilities, you know. And I think that was a good middle ground where we kind of had that conversation of now you can say that it's not that you were cheating the workout or you were shorting the reps. It's just you're working to your ability and your capacity at this point. And are you going to work on that squat depth? That's an individual choice that you have to make.

Squat Depth Limits And Honest Notes

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Uh so you also train kids now and younger athletes. So what do you what's your philosophy about standards when you're working with younger, with younger athletes at this point?

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Yeah. I I think um it's super important to go over the standards and make sure they're hitting the standards. You know, um, we're very uh slow in our programming of introducing new movements, introducing squats and deadlifts and stuff like that in the second year this year, this summer. Uh, I want to introduce a lot more of that. But I also don't want to allow, you know, poor movement, knowing that these kids are going to grow up if they get those bad habits. You know, I'd rather pull everything back, you know, and allow them to push the weight years from now with good form, you know, rather than allowing things to go now. So I think it's more important the younger you are to kind of hone in on that good technique, those hit those standards, make sure you're doing everything in a safe manner because those habits build throughout the years.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

What is the age range of the kids that you'll be working with this summer?

Coaching Kids With Technique First

SPEAKER_00 9:56

So I have a five to eight-year-old class, which sometimes we have a couple of four-year-olds that sneak in there, um, but they're great. Uh, you know, and that that age group is focused more on, you know, body weight movements, uh, a lot of games and just getting them comfortable moving in different directions. Um, and then we have a nine to twelve program, which is uh a little bit more intense, uh, a few more movements that we work in, you know, deadlifts, goblet squats, um, med ball cleans, uh, just giving them the foundational movements as best as we can.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

You know, I was thinking about that upper age range, especially and then even a little bit higher, maybe even into the 14, 15-year-olds, like especially the boys, it's just so hard to stop them from going heavier uh to really focus on form. Like they just want to put a big number up sometimes, especially on barbell stuff. So, like how do you rein people in at any age, but whether it's a 15-year-old or or a 10-year-old who's just kind of like, I got 50 burpees, and like you know, maybe maybe not great looking burp.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Yeah. Um, I think we are in a lucky situation at Bison where um all the parents that I know of of the kids that are in the program and the ones that are gonna graduate and eventually hopefully become members, um, they're very good about, you know, setting expectations and limitations. Um, but all I need to do is if I see there's one of the kids that's trying to do too much, you know, I'm gonna bring them in in a morning class. I'm gonna have them look at Manny or Yahya and say, like, look at how well they move, you know, and the the weight and the reps come later, you know. Um, Anthony Gerald moves amazing. Jamie Kajajian moves amazing. We have great examples of fantastic athletes that have done it the right way, and you can see their improvement from when they started to, you know, now they're putting up those weights and getting RX scores, and you know, the goosfas are continually beating me in every workout. Um, but you know, they they did it the right way. So we have good examples of that throughout the gym, which is nice.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah, me too. I mean, they're beating, I mean, they're beating me too, but I do remember, especially Yaya, who's on the younger side, like even a like a couple of months ago or a year ago, like he wouldn't, he could have gone heavier, but he actually self-selected himself with a weight that worked better for him. And you're right, their movement quality has always been outstanding. And I think they're they're very careful to figure out what weight they are. And I'm not sure is that just because they're focused on their own athletic endeavors, like you know, be it wrestling or whatever, or you know, it's just that family's mindset. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

But I think oh, sorry. No, I think it's it's good that um a lot of our younger athletes are training for a sport outside CrossFit, you know, um, because then they they get that discipline from there. Um, so I think that's also a positive.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

I agree.

Why Sports Build Real Athleticism

SPEAKER_01 13:09

I think most young and I think this has been discussed in other forums, like kids should not be training to be professional CrossFit athletes in general. I feel I think Ben Bergeron has always said that, and I agree very much so. Like it's fun to do CrossFit and they should use it as a training base, and there's a lot you can learn and take away from it, but they should be playing a multitude of sports. Um which uh and CrossFit can be such a great base, like in terms of just like fitnessing. But like, yeah, I I feel like if you're not if you're only focusing on CrossFit as a as a young athlete and not anything else, you've really you're shorting yourself in a big way.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah, I think CrossFit is great for improving fitness and work capacity, but I think sport is unmatched in developing athleticism. Just the way you have to react um when you know you're outside of the bounds of a CrossFit workout is completely different than knowing exactly the rep range you're doing, you know, you're only moving in one direction usually. Um, I think that reaction time and everything like that and adapting to the um the pace of the game is huge for athleticism.

Warm-Ups And Filming For Better Reps

SPEAKER_01 14:21

So what about athletes? Like what can they do to do better in terms of their standards? Like, for example, I was just thinking about uh the Saturday's workout. I did it, it was a partner workout. Um, Ash was coaching, I was doing step-ups, I was scale, I scaled the box jumps and step-ups, and it was a synchro box uh either jump or step up. And so I was stepping up, but I did I realized only sort of at the end of the workout that every time I stepped up, I kind of looked over to see if my partner was like done at the top. And that I mean, that's my excuse. I basically wasn't standing all the way up at the top, and um and I said that and and well I realized that, and then I said to Ash afterwards, I was like, you know what? If I wasn't standing up at the top, uh I'm sorry, I I was looking over, and that's my excuse at my partner, and that's why I wasn't, and and I feel terrible because I I always try to keep to standards, maybe you know, not the prettiest standards, but too standard, and she and and Ash said, like, yes, I think a lot of people were doing that. Like, I'm gonna let the next class know. Like, you know, maybe the two people could be facing each other on the boxes, so you don't have to like look to the side, you can just look like across to each other and not have to like um turn or or or bend. But she I don't know if if she was gonna say anything, and maybe just because she knows that I I generally keep the standard, or maybe, you know, um, maybe I'm such an egotist that I'd be like, she thought I would take offense and be like, how dare you? I I stand, you know, or or you know, so, you know, or not cause a negative sort of interaction. So as an athlete, like, what can we do um to do better on those type of things?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Yeah, I think I think the warm-up's super important. Um, and I think as I've said before, like no ego, film your workouts, you know, because it's tough at the end of a 20-minute amrap to feel how your body's moving and are you hitting those positions and everything like that. Oftentimes um I'll look back at my workouts and I'll see no reps that I, you know, am just embarrassed by just because I'm out of the mindset, you know, I'm tired, I'm sucking wind, and your form breaks down at some point, you know, and we want people to push that line, you know, uh just to see what they're capable of. And that's usually when the biggest celebrations come, is where you where you get improvement on a workout that maybe you're redoing, uh, or a movement that, you know, you did an extra 10 pounds. We want to celebrate those things, but um, you also want to make sure you're hitting standards. So I think the warm-up is important. You know, make sure when the coach says you've got a couple minutes here, if you want to get a couple full reps in, call them over, say, how do these reps look? Uh, they'll give you any cues that you would need. And I think just getting that muscle memory of hitting that same standard every time from the warm-up translates into the workout eventually.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Yeah. I I what you mentioned before about athletes coming up to you and saying, Can you let me know how my form is? Or I've, you know, I've been struggling with like this movement, and can you just double check and make sure, like give me some feedback on it? I think athletes should always do that if there's something that they feel like they should um work on. And I I love when athletes do that, and and I'm glad that people are doing that for you. Um, the other thing I've done as a coach also is is kind of be like the a-hole coach. Like, I'll warn people in the warm-up. Like everyone, and people know this, like I was a push-up like Nazi for a while. Like, everyone in 5 a.m. was terrible at push-ups, they just couldn't keep the standard. So don't be offended. If I'm gonna come around and ask you to like, you know, straighten up a little bit and stop bending so much or whatever. Like, I kind of pre-warn people, um, just so that like if they um don't hit and I give them feedback, they don't feel like they're singled out or anything like that. Um, but I realize also what you said very much, um, it resonates with me. There are people that I have talked to like five, six, seven, twenty times, and they will never like like you said, for a mil multitude of reasons, they will not like find hitting standard a priority for themselves.

When Athletes Push Back On Feedback

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Um, I mean, I've gotten eye rolls, I've gotten yelled at, you know, of what's yelled at you. Don't tell me, don't tell me to yell. And, you know, it's just we've got to do our job, which is the standard is the standard, you know. So I'll remind you I'm never gonna stop you from working out unless it's unsafe. You know, if you have too much weight on a deadlift or a power clean and it's not um looking well, I'm gonna stop you. Yes. Um, but on yeah, on a push-up workout, I'm not gonna stop you, but I need you to know that this is what I'm seeing, you know, and I'll tell people go back and check your video. Like you'll you'll see that your chest is not touching the ground, your elbows are not locking out, you know, maybe once out of any every 10 reps. And you can eye roll and you can yell at me, it's fine. I've got thick skin. Um, but you know, I feel like I would be um letting you down as an athlete, not you know, trying to keep you to the standard, especially if you are somebody that likes to be competitive, you like to try to get the best score on the whiteboard you can. We gotta, you know, make sure we're hitting those standards.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

I agree. Um, and I myself have failed, like, you know, failed many times to meet standards. I just failed on Saturday. So there you go.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Everybody does it, you know, and it's uh, you know, it's something that is humbling, but it's also just something you can keep in the back of your mind that maybe there are certain and there are certain movements that maybe you say, okay, I gotta bring the weight back a little bit, even though I know I can do it, because I starfish on my power cleans once I get to a certain weight, you know, and so if you want to continually make progress as an athlete, you've got to realize that you have to lock in that form because the technique is what's gonna make you get those gains. You'll get stronger, but you've got to be able to, you know, do it, do those reps in the most efficient way possible in order to get that PR that you're searching for three months from now.

Takeaways And Closing Thanks

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Adam, such good advice. I need to take more of your classes. I miss them. Like I am not I don't come in the evenings enough. So um, but uh I will take everything you said to heart. I uh I hope uh there's a lot there that I think a lot of people could use. Um, and and I think not take offense. Like I I I feel like if Ash had yelled at me, um, I would have been uh taken aback, but then I would have appreciated it and I would have told her thank you. So um, and I think the fact that you're giving people a little bit of grace as well as as you're getting um um along in terms of your coaching, I think that that's what all great coaches do. Like they they are understanding um the situation a little bit more before they're saying no rep like to somebody. Uh you're right. Which I still love doing. Yes, I know. I I do know that myself. So uh thank you, Adam. Um, hope to have you uh uh on again soon. Really appreciate it. And uh thank you so much. All right, thanks.