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The Self Worth Edit
The Self Worth Edit
She's Unlikeable & Other Lies That Bring Women Down, ft. Aparna Shewakramani
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From her "polarizing" portrayal on Netflix's hit TV show Indian Matchmaking, Aparna Shewakramani became an overnight ambassador for women demanding to be heard—in their love lives, workplaces, and in every space they occupy. Aparna is releasing her first book, She's Unlikeable: And Other Lies That Bring Women Down, on March 22, 2022. Aparna was born in London, lived in Dubai as a child, and called Texas her home for over 25 years before recently moving to NYC. She is an avid traveler (over 43 countries and counting) and the co-founder and owner of the luxury travel company My Golden Balloon.
Questions and topics we discuss in this episode include:
- The guilt that comes with giving up dating apps and how to cope
- The impact of irresponsible media consumption
- How to date from a place of clarity and grounding
- How to maintain hope in the world of dating
- Aparna's hardest and easiest stories to tell in her new book
- What might still surprise you about Aparna beyond what you already know of her
- and more!
Read: She's Unlikeable and Other Lies That Bring Women Down
Connect with Aparna:
Instagram: @thenatashaibrahim
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And I believe that the one will find me because I'm becoming the person I'm meant to be, which makes space for them.
SPEAKER_00You're listening to the Self Worth Edit, the podcast inspiring South Asian women and beyond to quit playing small and start trusting the power and wisdom within. Join me, Noah Sheen, on Mondays as I share insightful conversations, tips for healthier ways of thinking, and lessons in healing our relationships with ourselves. Thanks for tuning in to the Self-Worth Edit. Here we go. Hello and welcome to the Self-Worth Edit Podcast. If this is your first time here, I'm your host, No Shin, a divorced Pakistani American podcaster, travel blogger, and digital nomad. This is a place primarily for South Asian women and beyond to discuss topics of self-love, mental wellness, relationships, spirituality. In the show notes, you'll find links to resources and book recommendations from previous guests, as well as links to some of the most popular episodes of this show. I invite you to take a listen. And as always, if you enjoy what you hear, please share with a friend and leave a five-star rating on whichever platform you happen to be tuning in from. Today's guest is Indian matchmaking star, fellow travel addict, and recent author Aperna Shekramani. This season I'm sharing a specific journal prompt to help you go deeper with your reflections and learnings from each episode. So sign up for the newsletter by following the link in the show notes so you can receive those prompts. Back to Aperna. I have been in awe of her ever since binge watching Indian matchmaking when it first came out, and I'm loving her book, which releases to the public tomorrow, March 22nd, 2022. That book is linked in the show notes so you can get your copy of She's Unlikable and Other Lies That Bring Women Down. It's already receiving great reviews, and in this episode, we chat a bit about the stories Aperna shares in this her first ever book as well as her experience writing it. We also chat about her dating mindset and updates, a bit about her experience on Indian matchmaking and generally life and love as a South Asian woman. Here is Aperna.
SPEAKER_01I love when people ask about what brings me joy. I think that gets to the heart of who you are as a person. And I feel like that's what they're kind of trying to access. And I think for me that actually like warms me up to them immediately. So when I hear that on a date or even in an interview or anyone, it's when someone's questioning what keeps you going, what's your passion, what's your core motivator? I think that's just a beautiful question.
SPEAKER_00I love it. And so let's go there. What does bring you joy?
SPEAKER_01It changes. But for me right now, it's opportunities and hope for my future as I make these tiny little moves that seem like little bitty steps. I know I'm moving in the right direction for me, and that brings me joy every day. I'll literally be driving in the streets of Houston right now, visiting my mom, and I'll just like break out in a huge smile. And it's that opportunity, it's that hope in me that I haven't had in a long time. I'm finally pursuing a career that I love in writing, and it feels still every day like a joyful gift.
SPEAKER_00That's the best feeling. That moment you find yourself just swept up by gratitude. It's so warm. It's the best way I can describe it. I love that you're experiencing that right now. It's beautiful. Yeah, I'm very lucky. So we have a lot to chat about. We have your dating tips and lessons, your life advice, and your book, which I'm super excited about. So let's dive all the way in at the beginning. Something I personally admire about you so much is that you are so clear on what you want in a partner. How did you get to that degree of clarity?
SPEAKER_01I think I've dated a long time. That helps, but I've also always been very acutely aware that I don't want to waste anyone's time, mine or theirs. So I had to evolve through a list of red flags. And that changed as the years went on and as my needs changed and as I became flexible in some areas or inflexible in others. And when I keep that in mind at the forefront of meeting someone, some say it takes the joy out of the dating. For me, it doesn't. And for me, my red flags right now is I'm dating in New York. A lot of men there don't want a family. And they're very honest about that. On date one or two, they're like, I just don't want kids. And for me, I really want a family. Like that's not negotiable. And so I have to end it with that person. Or drug use is really big in New York. A lot of people love recreational drugs. For me, that's a non-negotiable. I don't want that in my home one day. I don't want that with a family one day. And I respect people who use them, but for me, that's a no. And I think we're allowed to start making that list of things that are just a no. And it will look different for all of us, but we're all looking for the one, not the hundred that might work for me, but the one that's gonna be compatible with me, that's gonna build a life with me, that's gonna commit every day the way that I am committing every day, and one that has similar values and is aligned with my belief system. As I grow older and older, that's more and more important. Not their job, not their career, not even relationship with their family. Before, when I was younger, I would say, oh, I really need them to be close to their family. Now I realize as we're older that a lot of people have worked very hard to not be close to their family, to build that space, to go through years of therapy, to make those boundaries. So that's just a few examples of how we change, how our non-negotiables change, and how I am very clear on what I want in the person.
SPEAKER_00I love how you adapted that to differentiate and say my red flags, because of course there are generic red flags and the fact that it is so dependent on each individual person and what you're looking for. So I like that. And then what are some of your green flags?
SPEAKER_01Someone who asks me questions. I think I'm I'm not seeing that a lot in dating nowadays. Someone who really wants to get to know me, who asks me things like not just where do you see yourself in five years, but what do you want to accomplish in the next few years? I think it's the way that they phrase it. It's the way they're trying to get to know you that tells me a lot about who they are. People who are genuinely curious about the world around them. So I love that people love their work. I can appreciate that, but what else? What else are you curious about? What are you inquisitive about? What are you looking into and trying to learn in the world? I'm a lifelong learner. That's something I hope to see in my partner as well.
SPEAKER_00Do you believe, based on your personal experiences and maybe what you've seen from your friends and family, that South Asian women have unique challenges in the dating world?
SPEAKER_01It depends. It depends on if they want to date another South Asian person or if they're willing to walk away from their community in the partnership sense, not in friendship or family, obviously, but in who they choose for their partner, they then have different obstacles potentially. But yeah, I think that we are working in a very weird space where a lot of us as young women were told we could do anything and be anyone. But then I feel like someone forgot to tell our cousins or brothers. They taught us dream big, but they forgot to tell them surely the women who are your sisters and your friends who are dreaming big. And so I think it's a weird disconnect for women in their late 20s and 30s who are South Asian and dating. I feel like I found that across the board.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Yeah, I feel like you really just hit on something there that I'm gonna be sitting with after. That's pretty profound. And I see it, I see that hold true. So I'm gonna continue to process that. You know, and within our culture, there's a lot. I'm curious to know your level of experience with this. I know mine, but there's a lot of this low kyakahenge. There's a lot of focus on perception and reputation. And I'm just curious what has been your exposure to that over the years and how has that come into play for you? Because you seem so unfazed now, the version that we see of you now. And I'm just curious if that's always been the case or how you evolved through it, if not.
SPEAKER_01So my mom was divorced and moved here as a single mom to the US. So I was a seven-year-old immigrant and I was in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood, not a lot of South Asians at that time. Now the whole neighborhood is South Asian, but back when I was seven, it was a very white neighborhood, Asian a little bit, but not South Asian. So I was kind of insulated. I was in these private schools with a diverse group of friends. I remember my friend did like a big Vietnamese birthday party, and my mom had to take me because she was my best friend in third grade. My mom had never even met a Vietnamese person in her life, you know, in Dubai as a Sindhi woman. And so for us, we explored this country together and its diversity, and it gave me a lot of freedom because I was in public schools, because I was in this neighborhood that wasn't predominantly Indian. Of course, I had cousins and stuff like that, but my family is very educated too. And they kind of always just said, focus on that, boy or girl, my two male cousins or my sister and I, just like it was the four of us, just work hard, pick what you love, pick sports that you love, pick activities that you love. So my sister played basketball. I played the clarinet, I was on the newspaper, she was on the yearbook. It was always about moving forward with that path in our life. So we were very insulated, and I was very lucky because those are our formative years. And then I went to these beautiful, wonderful top schools in America where everyone was always talking about their education and what they wanted to learn. And again, I was insulated. And then all my friends became doctors and lawyers and architects, and again I was insulated. So it really wasn't until Indian matchmaking came out when I was speaking to women all around the world from 140 countries that I realized how prevalent this what will people say thing comes about. And for me, I realized then that how lucky I was in Houston, Texas. You're kind of in this bubble and you're protected from all of that, or I felt I was anyway. And so that's why I had so many years to develop who I was.
SPEAKER_00That's fascinating. Yeah, a completely different take. And just from my perspective, to imagine it makes me happy for you. It makes me also a little bit confused on like what that experience must have been like, you know, having grown up with that so ingrained on my side. But I love what you're doing with what comes of you as a result of that. That's amazing. So I'm also divorced. And as I get older, I feel I get even clearer on what I want, right? That clarity that comes. And I feel my pool going like this, like just narrowing. And so this is maybe a selfish question, but do you ever get worried that you won't find a person who fits what you want? You don't? Tell me more. Give me hope.
SPEAKER_01I never get worried. I am not looking for the hundred. Like I said, I'm looking for the one, and the one is out there. He's born, he's living his life right now. My astrologer actually says that he's in my orbit, that I'm meeting him this year. A lot of astrologers have told me that 2022 is the year I meet the person and find my partner. I don't know. I don't even need the astrology to know it, though. I'm in a place right now where I am so aligned with what I am and who I'm becoming that it makes no sense to me that the person wouldn't find me at this point. Like I said, I was an immigrant and I spent many years of my life going through this amazing education, and then 10 years of my life being this lawyer that I hated. And that's a very auntie and uncle thing to do. Like my friends who are first generation grew up with their parents who had been in this country by the time they were seven or eight, which is pretty formative years, their parents had been in this country for 10 to 15 years. So they were not learning alongside their immigrant parents. They were given the space to dream and grow. And I'm taking that space now in my 30s because I just thought I had to make a staple income. I had to make a lot of money. I had to have a profession. I had to go to the best schools. That's very immigrant. It's very immigrant and it's not very first generation. And I never understood that divide and how much that shaped me until I quit everything I knew last year, my job, my friends, my family, my home. And I moved to the West Village. And I said, never again will I be trapped in the shoulda wood-aves. I'm gonna do what I can. And I'm living that it's scary, it's overwhelming. I miss my income. I miss it so much. But I'm okay to go through what one would call maybe a famine period to grow my life into something that I believe in. And I believe that the one will find me because I'm becoming the person I'm meant to be, which makes space for them. I'm becoming more expansive. So if you keep expanding as a woman, no matter your age, into who you're supposed to become, your partner will be right there. You don't have to do the work or look hard. He will come.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I love that last part you just said. Just focus on becoming more of who you are and expanding into that. And because there is a lot of focus on the work, and the work is valuable. And you know, that's for your own self-healing as well. So I like that. That's the grounding I need to remember. So thank you for that.
SPEAKER_01I keep saying, like, oh, I shouldn't travel so much. How will I meet the person? And Maya Shaladra, who's also my friend, said to me, Why do you think you have to meet them in New York City? How do you know you don't meet them when you're working? And then she looked at my chart and she was like, actually, you meet them while you're working. She can see where you can meet the person. So there's like this 11th house is um where most women have their husbands or their partners. And that's the house of like tenuous networks and circles. And that means today's modern day dating app. And back in the day, it was the matchmaker that came to your village with a suitcase of biodata some the big city. That's the 11th house. And she was like, You don't meet your partner there. And I don't know how much I believe in astrology, but a part of me just felt really good about what she said. And I was like, so I just get to work and like do the things I love and grow in that, and he will come. And she was like, Yeah. And so I got off every single dating app maybe four months ago, and I got rid of all the guilt that comes with getting off dating apps. And on a Friday night before, even if I wasn't active on the dating apps, I would be like, Oh, it's a Friday night. I should have been on the apps this week to get a date for tonight. And now I'm like, oh, I get a Friday night at home to sleep and watch TV or read a good book and have some hot tea in bed. I've taken away the fact and the idea that I have to work, that I have to be swiping and frantic and searching and all of these things. There's so many patterns that if we observe in our life, we never did any of those things and we got the thing so easily. Why can't it also be our partner?
SPEAKER_00That's so interesting. And like a lot is coming up for me as I hear you talk. First of all, I hardcore relate with the travel and do what you want to do piece. And that was a big thing that I thought about as I was like, well, I'm just gonna become nomadic. And my sister would say that to me. She's like, Well, how am I gonna meet someone if I'm like moving around every few months? She'd be like, your pool just got way wider. Now it's the whole world. So calm down. And then this piece of the things that are sticking out is you said the guilt that comes with not being on the apps. Can you say a little bit more about that?
SPEAKER_01I didn't even realize that I had that weight on me, honestly. I mean, I've been on the apps on and off, the way many of us do. We have active periods and non-active periods. But even when we're non-active on them, they're still sitting on our phone, looking at us and taunting us. Why aren't you on us? Shouldn't you be swiping? You moved to this new city. Didn't you think you would meet someone? You can't sit in your apartment all day and meet someone. Sure, but I can also grow into who I am, rest when I need, not be pushing myself to go on dates with men that I know already don't hate my non-negotiables just to go on a date. I think that when I took away the apps and I started living my life, more people actually, even though I've said this for the past two years, I've told all my friends I'm single, I'm single, like please set me up. I feel like maybe my energy shifted or something happened because then people were suddenly coming up to me and being like, Sanso does want to go on a date with you. Do you mind if I give him your number? Or I threw a birthday party and two different men there asked me out at my own birthday party. And I just started getting into situations that never happened before. I thought the only way to meet someone was on hinge or bumble. And it turns out that if you're living a happy life and you're glowing and you're happy and you're intentional and telling people the universe will bring you people. And I don't know if these two men are gonna work or not. It doesn't even matter. The point is, is I think my vibration has changed. I feel it has, and I'm ready to go with it. I'm gonna ride the wave.
SPEAKER_00I love it. I love those stories too. So I'm excited to see what happens and unfolds for you for sure. Let's talk about your book. I'm very excited for your book. I'm just gonna jump right in. What was the hardest story and the easiest story for you to tell in your book?
SPEAKER_01The hardest story was going back to Indian matchmaking. I think that after the show, a lot of things happened to me where it was a really dark period for many months, a lot of cyberboarding death threats, trolling, feeling like I lost control of my narrative. I did not agree with my edit and on the way that it was edited. I do not believe that is an accurate depiction of me or my story. Those feelings are really hard to reckon with because you feel like something's been stripped from you, and that something is very dear. It's your voice. All of a sudden, my story in the world was not my own story. It was a story that was told by someone I did not approve the telling of. And that was very hard to process to write because I think I was moving at such a high speed after that show. I did over 200 press outlets and media opportunities. I worked full-time as a lawyer. I was writing my book proposal as of September of 2020. Remember, the show came out in July of 2020. By September, I was already working on my nonfiction book proposal and I was dealing with social media, which is a full-time job in its own right. I was sleeping maybe two to three hours a night. It was a very dark, horrible period. And what happened during that period is that I became a survivalist. It was fight or flight always. And I didn't realize that until I had to write about it. And so as I wrote about it, I had to relive it to tell it. And then I also had to almost process it. And I had never done that. I honestly had never done that. And it was so hard. I mean, I found myself weeping over things that I didn't have the time to weep then. I didn't have the time to grieve or to feel lost or to feel betrayal or anger or any of those things. So they came up while I was writing. And then the easiest part was chapter one, which is actually my favorite chapter. It flowed for me. It was like the beginning of the book was the most easy, beautiful experience. It takes you through the casting process. It takes you through me losing my home and Hurricane Harvey and everything that I owned because the home flooded. And it takes you through my 100-day semester abroad, where I went on a cruise ship around the world. And you would think those three things aren't connected, but I connect them all in a way that made sense to me. And I hope many people have now read the book and they said it was a beautiful moment for them too to read that. It was such an easy introduction to a reader about who I am. It was these three pivotal moments that shaped me. And I think sometimes that's the best way to start your story, the things that shaped you and the moments that shaped you. And from then on, I continue to tell my story, obviously for the next 10 chapters. But it was a beautiful, fun chapter to read and to read now and to have written then.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for sharing all of that. And as you're talking, and based on what I'm feeling, I can feel how much of your self you put into this book. You even shared, right? The experience, the visceral experience of actually writing it and what it activated for you. So it must have been so cathartic and it's so incredible to have access to that part of someone and to have that part of a writer. So I think that's so cool. How do you deal with the negative comments now? I imagine that there still are some. I don't know. I had one TikTok go viral and I saw comments on there and I was like, ah, I want to be under a rock right now. How do you deal with that? Because it did seem everything you're saying, looking back externally, I was like, wow, she just took that in stride. I would not know that it really affected you, even based on how you were talking about those experiences. It seemed like you just switched to flip and decided not to be affected by it. Hearing you share that now, there's that lifting of the veil, right? Is this something you still struggle with? Or has writing the book and everything since helped you process it fully?
SPEAKER_01When a show first comes out or when people first consume the show, because Netflix is a weird beast, right? The show like came out July of 2020, but then gained its viral status in the coming months. So many people were watching it from July to August. This is September. That's when the people come to your page to spew the hate. That's why you experienced it on a viral TikTok. It's not your community, it's not your people, it's random people that explored and found this piece of you. Those people are gone now. Maybe once in a while I get a comment, I just delete and block liberally. And I was very scared when the trolls come and you delete and block, they then multiply because they are actually trolls. Now someone makes a random bad comment and I literally just delete and block. I don't care. Like it's it's my community now. It's it's just inconsequential. After that first season, those first months, I think everything will always be inconsequential to me. And so maybe it's a perspective shift. I mean, the things they say are so weird too, like your teeth are crooked. Okay, yeah, I didn't wear my retainer. Is that supposed to hurt me? Like what hurt me with the trolls on the show was again, I didn't agree with my edit and it was not accurate. And so I felt a helplessness because how do I say that's not really what happened when it didn't matter that I said that? They had stripped me of that. And so maybe I have a thick skin now, maybe I just don't care if and when I ever go on another TV show. I think it'll be a much easier process, the aftermath of it anyway.
SPEAKER_00What most helped you regain that sense of control over your own voice?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I don't think I ever lost it to regain it. I knew it wasn't being amplified. And so that's why I kept talking to the press. Every time someone DM'd me, I was like, Oh, you read the Washington Post, I'll talk to you. New Yorker, got it. New York Times, Oprah, Boltrar, Betches. I mean, everyone, they all wanted to talk to me. And I was like, who am I to say no? Thank you for amplifying my voice. And there was a whole chapter on that in the book about press and media and the powerful women who were journalists who stood up in my favor and started Team Aparna and wrote articles called In Defense of Aparna from Indian matchmaking, and she's the hero. And like my voice was not big enough to combat 143 countries on Netflix. And I just felt an immense sense of gratitude for the women. It was mostly 99% of the 250 plus journalists I spoke to or 200 plus were women. And they were basically standing with me as I see it in solidarity and giving me the amplification. And in the end, people said things to me like your PR machine was amazing. I'm like, What PR machine? I was a lawyer in Houston, Texas in a pandemic. It was me just being like, Yeah, I'll talk to you. Do you want to talk to me? I'll talk to you. I have a profound love for female journalists and for the media. I know it is a very weird love to have, but they gave me my voice. And maybe, maybe only 5% of the people who watch Indian matchmaking on the show read those articles, even even though they were in the biggest, arguably, media outlets in the world. But that was still some amplification, and that still helped me, I think, feel a sense of at least my story is coming. And then I'll write my book. The issue with the book is only the people who love me are gonna read it. They're already on my side. Like, you know, you're never gonna get your voice back once it's stripped from you. You will never have it on that scale. And now a part of grieving that is living that every day that people still meet me on the street or will meet my friends. And the first thing they ask is, Was she that terrible? And I'm like, Oh, is this gonna go on? Am I gonna be 50 years old walking into a dinner party one day? And they're gonna be like, that was that B from that show. Yeah. And I have to deal with that.
SPEAKER_00And I think increasingly, you know, negativity comes from people's own insecurities and what they choose to project. And I always try to remind myself of that. If someone truly wants to say, I am going to judge this person's character by these few minutes or these few hours of what I know about them that's been filtered through all these lenses, and that's going to be what I put my anchor in. That's a personal, that's something deeper.
SPEAKER_01I think it's much simpler than that. Uh, I think you're giving too much credit. I think people consume media irresponsibly and they don't think twice about it. They think what they're seeing is true in the end. It is not this deep-seated insecurity that they have. They're like, oh, it's on TV. It's true. And I think it's the way we consume media right now. That's the way we consume the press that we watch. Like everybody watches their own news now, right? You can watch Fox and have one. That's so scary, Aperna. I like mine better. Yeah. No, I don't give people that much credit. I mean, again, this is mass consumed, mass by people in Oman, where this was number one, in Ethiopia, in Kenya, in Malaysia. Those people are not saying mean things to me because they have some deep-seated insecurity. They're saying mean things because they think when they watch TV, it's true, and that girl was terrible. So then they come to tell you you're terrible. It's really that simple. And you're like, oh, it's that simple. Okay, well, then I'm not going to take it that personally either. It's just irresponsible media consumption.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. As a former journalist major, this is bringing up a lot for me about media consumption and media even creation and curation. And it's on both sides. And so it is scary. It has the potential to be scary because it has intense ramifications, right? Like not only on people's individual lives, but on a global scale. And I we see that every day. So we don't need to go into it. But yeah, you're right.
SPEAKER_01Reality TV has now been around for maybe 20 to 30 years, and yet we still consume it the same way. Why is there always a villain? And why is she always ambitious driven and smart? Because it's a trope that works, and they're just playing into the frenzy of that archetype over and over again. And that's what she's unlikable is about. It's called She's Unlikable and Other Lies That Bring Women Down. They never take a man on a reality show and make him strong and driven and then call him a villain. He's the strong driven man. Like we should be blessed to be in his presence. And I'm frankly sick of it, which is why my book is titled It. I think we need to stop giving it media engagement. Everyone just calls me the most polarizing figure on Indian matchmaking. The polarizing part was that men and women alike loved the trope. Oh, the picky stubborn, overeducated, two-driven woman. Let's make her the villain. I don't know. I'm over it. I'm tired. They need to come up with a new archetype.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And so your book. So you've done a lot of press. You've had a chance to get your voice out there and tell your story in a lot of different ways. Is there anything you think people will still be surprised by in your book?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that we would be surprised if we read anyone's book. If anyone sat down and wrote their life lessons to living their authentic life, we would be surprised because we don't all just come to the table and share the things that shaped us or hurt us or made us grow our grit and resilience and perseverance. Those are very honest topics. I focus a lot in one chapter about what I call the ugly duckling privilege. And it's about the fact that I had a very beautiful mother. And so I feel in hindsight, and I actually have always felt, that I'm very lucky because no one ever pinned beauty on me. I think that's not a conversation we have a lot. And someone asked me today, well, did you ever resent her? Well, no, we I was born to her. I mean, everyone thinks our mom's beautiful. Mine was just also subjectively very beautiful to the whole world, not just me. But I think the whole story would have shifted. That chapter would have looked different if it was my sister that was so beautiful and not me, right? Uh the relationship of a mother-daughter is there. So I think it's a lot about who we are and the things that maybe we didn't even think affected us. I had never even called it ugly duckling privilege until I started writing the chapter and it flowed for me that that's actually what has shaped me. And so I believe everybody will take something from this memoir of mine and it will trigger something in them to think deeper. What are the things that shaped me? Is this girl's lessons of adversity, you know, apply to me? You will probably never lose your home in a hurricane. I hope you don't anyway. But what does the loss of material things mean to someone? What does the loss of a routine or a home mean? It looks different. Maybe it feels like a loss of a pet or a loss, but it's a loss, right? Universally, it's a loss of something that was stripped from us one day. I happen to wake up and have water in my house and see my possessions all gone. You would have had some other loss. So in the end, I hope the universal themes of humanity and loss and grief and perseverance and resilience and grit resonate, but also tell you about who I am personally.
SPEAKER_00If you were creating the archetype, a new archetype, what would it be?
SPEAKER_01I don't think we need archetypes. I think we need nuanced human beings that are all of the things. It's just so easy to put us in these archetypes. And I see why they do it. Maybe I've never actually looked at this, but what was my total airtime on that show? I don't know, 1.5 hours. It's really hard to show you a human being in 1.5 hours. But I think we can do better. I think we can show people even in a shorter amount of times that people are nuanced, that they're not all good, that they're not all bad. One article came out, it's a very small outlet. I don't even know how I found it. And the title of it was No one in that show was as good or as bad as they were made out to be. And it's true. We are all human beings. Good ones, they got princess and prince edits, but they are not that good. I think they would admit the same thing. They are human beings. And the bad ones, we are not that bad. We got a bad edit. And so I think it's an interesting concept to again take us back to media consumption, but also to archetypes. Why can't we just show people as they are? Why do we have to throw them into villain or princesses? Who is your book for?
SPEAKER_00As you were writing it, did you have a feeling, a connection to a particular kind of nuanced person who would be reading it?
SPEAKER_01I mean, it's definitely for a female audience. I would love if a few men read it, but I don't know. I thought about my own bookshelf when I was writing this. What if I had had a story, a memoir, a manifesto of a 35-year-old woman on my bookshelf? What would that story say? I mean, we have stories in our media of the early 20s. We have girls and shows like that, which were viral hits where we are exploring the messiness of those years after college where you have no money and you're trying to build your career, you're getting into toxic relationships with men. We have stories of women in their 50s and 60s getting divorced or widowed, their children leaving their homes and them reinventing themselves after the emptiness syndrome kicks in. But then there's like this whole gap in between. And I think we do that because we think that the story has to be complete in some way. And I think what's interesting is I'm starting to see some of the first reviews come in. And one of the first ones said, the only criticism is this book ends too abruptly. And I thought, well, that's weird. It's because I'm in my 30s. Like it's always going to end abruptly. I'll write the next one and it will end abruptly also, because I'm still living the life. I'm taking you on a portion of it. But I actually went back, it was 10 chapters of the book, and I added chapter 11 right before we turned in the final print. So I finished the book in like April or May, end of July, I wrote chapter 11 in two days and just threw it in there. I was like, it's important to me. And I feel like if someone gave me another shot, I would throw in another chapter right now and be like, oh, chapter 12 is important to me. Because I think it's an evolving story. And I hope that that's who my female audience, what they see in this story, that it is also their story and that we are constantly growing and changing, and that these years are formative. And many of us will have experiences of all those things I talked about, including, I touch on colorism, on heightism, on castism, on misogyny, on feminism. These are things that women and women of color, especially South Asian women, since I'm one of them, have experienced. And we've experienced it collectively. And so this is my unique voice talking about it, but it's also their story.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure you know that a lot of people, a lot of us, draw a lot of inspiration from you. Who do you draw inspiration from, or where do you draw inspiration from?
SPEAKER_01It's a whole chapter in my book. It's the lesson of and the title. So every title is a lesson, is learn from the women before you. And I think I thought about that when I was writing the book. And of course they love Michelle Obama. We all do. But what about the women who are our mothers and our grandmothers and our great-grandmothers that are so much closer to home? What did they teach us? What did they stumble through and overcome so that we don't have to stumble through and overcome? And if we do still stumble and overcome, it's from a more elevated vibrational space because they already went through it. And I really go through my great-grandmother, my grandmother, and my mother in that chapter and tell you about who they are and what they overcame and how if I was a smart woman, and I believe I am, I would learn from that to not repeat those same challenges and hurdles, but instead to say, they did that. I was afforded and gifted these resources and opportunities. I might still make the mistakes, but it will be on my terms and at a higher level. And so I really do believe that we can all look right at home for our role models and they'll be right in front of us.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I have nothing to say to that except for that I love it. I'm inspired by it. I want to just ask you a couple of questions to wrap here. One is what's the best compliment you've ever received?
SPEAKER_01You are so kind and generous. I love it.
SPEAKER_00And then the other is, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you were hoping I would ask you? Anything you want to share with this audience of South Asian women?
SPEAKER_01I think what's really important and my biggest hope for my South Asian audience is that they realize that I didn't love my edit, but I love the macro picture of what my edit was to so many of them. That it was a woman saying, I know what I deserve, I believe I deserve it, and I'm going to wait for it. And I think that's a really powerful message that I hope that they're left with, even after an edit I potentially don't agree with. And I hope that it is magnified by my book and by any future appearances I have on the international screen again. It's a story I want to continue telling. It's a story I think is important to say I have self-worth and I am going to stick to it. I'm going to stick to it. I'm going to like me and love me above all else. And that's okay. And in fact, I'm going to celebrate that. So I think if I can leave people with that, I would have done my job pure right.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And just by living your life and being unapologetically you, you have started this chain reaction of inspiring and permissioning so many, whether that was the intended direction or you eventually picked that up and ran with it. So I personally am so grateful to you for everything that you are doing. Very excited to read your book. We will link to everyone in the show notes to be able to purchase that. Your Instagram, all the ways to get in touch with you will be in the show notes. Thank you so much for taking the time to connect with us.
SPEAKER_01Of course. Thank you for having me today. It was a wonderful chat. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00And thank you, friend, for tuning in to this week's episode of the Self Worth Edit podcast. Remember, there's a new episode every other Monday, so hit subscribe and sign up for the newsletter at the link in the show notes so you never miss one. In the meantime, come follow along on Instagram at the Self WorthEdit. Until next time, bye.