Marketers Take Flight

139: How To Get Your Content Published in National Publications: A Step-By-Step Process for AEC Marketers

• Lindsay Diven • Episode 139

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Ever dreamt of seeing your marketing content featured in a top-tier magazine? Well, today's your lucky day. I’ve got Amanda Murphy with us, who's turned that dream into reality.

Taking marketing content from your desk to the national spotlight? Yep, it’s possible! 🌟 Amanda will break down the essentials: from crafting that standout pitch to navigating the publishing maze. She’s got the insights and the steps, trust me.

What’s more? It's not just the how-to; it's the why and the wow of the journey. Amanda’s story is all about perseverance, savvy strategy, and making the big moves. She shows us how marketing content cannot just stay in its corner but truly steal the limelight. 📖✨

Ready to amplify your message and make a mark? 🚀 Tune in, and let’s dive into this epic marriage of marketing and publishing!


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Lindsay Diven:

Hey there, I'm Lindsay Divan and I'm passionate about everything marketing, productivity and career growth. With over 17 years of experience in the architecture, engineering and construction industry, I know firsthand the ins and outs of this exciting field, from my early days as a marketing coordinator to becoming an award-winning marketing professional. In firm principle, I've learned the ropes through countless late nights and challenging deadlines. Now I'm thrilled to bring you the AEC Marketing Strategies Podcast. Here I'll be sharing simple yet powerful, step-by-step marketing strategies that you can implement to achieve the same level of success. Consider me your go-to marketing mentor, someone who truly gets the unique challenges you face in the AEC industry. Whether you're an AEC Marketing Pro or industry newbie, this podcast is your personal coffee date with your marketing bestie. Together, we'll navigate the ever-changing landscape of online marketing and digital trends, ensuring you stay ahead of the curve. If you're ready to unlock the marketing secrets they never taught you in college and tailor them specifically to the AEC industry, then you're in the right place. Now let's get started. Hey there, my wonderful AEC Marketing Strategies listener. You're in for a real treat today, because we're diving deep into a topic that I know has been a little puzzle for many of you. Raise your hand. If you've ever thought how on earth can I get my content featured in a national publication. If you're in the car, though, maybe don't raise your hand, but you know what I mean and, my friend, if that's you, then you've tuned in to the right episode, because today I have a mandemorphie of Momentum for Good joining me, and this gal knows her stuff when it comes to getting major eyeballs on her work, and she's not holding back any secrets. So if you're multitasking, I'm going to need you to just hit pause, grab a notebook and a pen, or pop open that notes app on your phone.

Lindsay Diven:

This episode is jam packed with actionable tips and insights. We're going to be talking about what Amanda's article is all about. In the juicy details of the big time publication it made it into what inspired her to go big and pitch a national publication, and you're going to love her thought process along that, the actual steps that she took to craft her pitch, so the editor she pitched it to didn't say no, couldn't say no, and some of the unexpected benefits that came out of this article being placed in the national publication. Let's just say it's more than just bragging rights, even though I bragged on her a little bit in today's episode. Plus, amanda shares some final words of wisdom and she's dishing out advice and we are all ears to hear it. So posey up, my friend. I can't wait to dive into this powerhouse episode Without further ado. Let's jump right in. Okay, well, with me. Today I have Amanda Murphy. She's with the momentum for good. Welcome to the show, amanda. Thank you, lindsay, I'm excited to be here.

Lindsay Diven:

Yeah. So tell us, before we get into today's topic. Tell our listeners a little bit about who you are, what you do and a little bit about your background in your career path so far.

Amanda Murphy:

Okay, I am a new small business owner. I started in LLC back in February doing marketing strategy consulting. I also am the director of communications for a nonprofit trade association in North Carolina. We serve 4,000 members statewide, and that means I wear a lot of hats. I started, though, my career back in well more than 20 years ago.

Lindsay Diven:

Let's say yeah, we don't need the exact number. Yeah, thank God.

Amanda Murphy:

But I was writing proposals for the AEC industry, got a job doing civil, mechanical, electrical, plumbing and architecture actually proposals so I did that for a good little stint. And then I found a position as a marketing manager at a software development company and I did that for about five years, which is very similar to the job that I'm doing now. One of the things I've learned is careers are not linear, and I'll say more about that maybe, but I took a break to raise my kids for about six years. They're still being raised, they're 11 and 14. But then when I went back to work, I got another position as a marketing coordinator, getting back into it, because six years is a long time to be out of the industry. And then I worked in engineering until 2020 and got that my firm. I was working with commercial development and was the last person hired and got laid off because of the pandemic like four months into that job. But I went to work for my current employer about three months after being laid off and I've been there ever since.

Lindsay Diven:

Oh, nice, nice, it's an interesting job. So thanks for going through that career history and I love that. You said that career paths aren't linear. Mine hasn't been either. I've kind of jumped around. I tell people it's kind of like that octagon, like jungle gym, where you can go multiple directions, not just straight up the ladder, and so that's how I envision a career, because I've jumped around, similar to you, sideways, backwards, forwards, because life happens and we have to just take what we can. So thank you for spending a few minutes sharing with that.

Lindsay Diven:

But today we're not talking about career paths, although we probably could, but today we're talking about this idea of getting press and getting thought leadership content into publications.

Lindsay Diven:

And so I reached out to you, amanda, because I saw LinkedIn that you got an article from your association placed in a national publication and that caught my eye, because I work with a lot of AAC marketers and that's who listens to this podcast and they're doing amazing things and I teach content marketing and part of that is articles and thought leadership and we share it on our websites and we share it on our social, but the real like crudité is to get it placed in a national publication. And so when I saw your post I was like, oh my God, I got to bring Amanda on the podcast and I got to share her story and how this happened. So Start us off with giving us a brief overview of what the article was and tell us a little bit about the topic of the article and how it came to be in the publication. Give us some information about the publication that was placed in.

Amanda Murphy:

Okay, so my first comment is any way you can find to reuse content, do it, because it's less work on you, less work on authors. But it actually ended up being two articles that I pitched. One was taxes for forest landowners and the other one was some new laws that came out from the federal government about HB, two workers and both of those I pitched and they got printed. But the one about taxes for landowners was a three part series that I'm an editor for our magazine and it was a three part series.

Amanda Murphy:

We worked with a tax attorney on things to look out for very practical tips for landowners on how to save money on taxes. But one day I was looking at the Society of American Forester's website, which is a national organization, and I came across their list of publications and on there they had their publication managers name and contact information. And so I started digging because they had who's the audience for each of those different publications and I landed on this one called the forestry source, because I really think it may have had like either practical tips or taxes or important information for landowners, and I was like, oh, I've got something for you. So I read through them to see if our articles might be a good fit.

Lindsay Diven:

Nice, nice. I love it. I love that you went to the publication and already took this piece that you already created and say, okay, what would appeal to these readers in this demographic? So I love that, because a lot of times I know well, not a lot of times I know like the traditional path is to maybe pitch and then write the story, or pitch and then write the article, or talk to the editors and say what are you looking for? And then you have to create new. That is one approach. But I like this approach a little bit better too, because you're expanding the reach of the content you've already created. So I love that approach. So you might have already answered this next question in your approach. But what initially inspired you to target that particular publication?

Amanda Murphy:

Right. Well, I am with an organization that is a member of them and that's not just a group of people and that doesn't mean they're required to publish our information or anything. But we value what they do nationally for the forestry industry and so I have my own several of them, but this one has a reach of more than 8,000 readers. I knew our articles would work here it is. The source seeks original articles with practical application for the forestry industry, and we have several articles in the relationship I've built. Now she's interested in more, but I actually have done this in the past too.

Amanda Murphy:

I got to know some publishers and a different in the software development industry and I honed my craft and learned what they wanted. I think the most surprising thing to me to learn was publishers are always looking for content and if you've got it ready made, that's best for them, because they don't want to have to keep up with you. If that makes any sense, they don't want to have to track you down Like is the article done? They can't hold a placement either. So the less work you ask them to do, the better it is for both of you. So, yeah, that was my kind of inspiration when I saw the perfect fit for some of our series in our magazine.

Lindsay Diven:

Yeah, that practical application that's what I'm hearing. Yeah, for that particular publication. Okay, and so you already talked a little bit about this, but maybe, going back to this initial article that you got placed, can you walk us through the process that you went through in crafting your pitch to align your pitch to that particular publication?

Amanda Murphy:

Yeah, and I've kind of already mentioned this a little bit Like I did my homework, like I didn't blindly send an article out to 10 magazines which is a bad idea anyway, because they don't ever want to print something that's going out in the maybe their competitors magazine. But I used her first name, I did my homework, I didn't send a mass email and sometimes I've had to call an organization to find the right person. But another thing was I was really kind and not pushy, just like asking if there was an opportunity for us to share some content that's already been printed in our magazine, and I said I have some ideas on topics that deal with taxes for forest landowners. And then I just left it at that, like I think my initial contact was an email. That was really simple, like I have this, let me know if you want it. Like it wasn't salesy, it wasn't pushy, it was like authentically, I think your readers would appreciate this information.

Amanda Murphy:

So, but yeah, I mean, once I sent that she was pretty responsive. Like it wasn't a ton of convincing after that. Yeah, Because that's what she needed. Like she needs content over and over and over.

Lindsay Diven:

Yeah Well, and I would say, like, probably also, the more niche the publication, the more receptive they are to people providing content. And that's why, like, I love this idea or this marketing strategy for AEC firms, because our industries and our markets and the people that we serve are so niche and I'm sure there's a publication for everything, especially if there's one for, like, forestry or whatever it was, practical forestry land management tips or whatever it was. So I think that that's why I love this strategy and I wanted to have you come on, because I think it's really doable to marketing managers out there, both in-house or they can hire somebody like you to help with that as well. So you send an email to her, a very friendly, non-salesy email, just telling her what you had, and you said she just was very responsive to you, and then did you send that article? You said you didn't send the article in the original email, you just talked about the topic.

Amanda Murphy:

Right, yeah, that was intentional, because it's like a conversation, like if you show up and you're meeting somebody for the first time at coffee, you're not like all these things. Here's my backstory. It's kind of asking for consent, like do you want me to continue this conversation? And if they don't respond, then you haven't spent a lot of time on it either.

Lindsay Diven:

Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, okay, and so she responded, and then you guys continued the conversation and then eventually, since you already had this written, did you have, to like adjust anything to meet their, I guess, editorial guidelines and their?

Amanda Murphy:

spacing. Yeah, I went back and looked after we initially spoke and we have 30 emails back and forth more like 50 if I counted the ones I probably deleted which were just like okay, but only about 10% of those were me Like when is this going to go to print and do you need anything else for me? But most of the emails were editing, related author permission, images, some content changes and deadlines. But at first once she said yes, that's the other thing. Then I asked the author for permission and he was excited because he hadn't been in a national publication either. They did have some minor changes for grammar and stuff like that, and then they wanted additional images, but that's all pretty reasonable stuff.

Amanda Murphy:

Like I think it would be annoying I just want to say this to send more than one email initially, like if you ask and they don't respond, as an editor of a magazine, like I see every email that comes through If I don't respond. I mean I try not to be that way, but I take no response as no Basically, yeah, okay, without any other information or not right now.

Lindsay Diven:

Like yeah, maybe follow up with them and like another six or eight months or a couple months yeah.

Amanda Murphy:

Yeah, Just like I never heard from you. Anyway, I don't know what I would have done, but I didn't have to do that.

Lindsay Diven:

So, oh, that's good, that's good. So it sounds like you didn't really even have to like continually follow up. It sounds like once you got the ball rolling, she was pretty responsive to you, and then the communications were more about just getting the article done and ready for the magazine or the publication. So it wasn't. It was more like work emails, not like following up and pitching emails.

Amanda Murphy:

Exactly, yeah, it was. It was all business from then. And then it dropped off and I was like hey, and she was like, oh, yeah, it's in the magazine this week. And I was like, oh, okay, oh my goodness, oh, that's exciting.

Lindsay Diven:

So let's talk about that for a little bit. So you went through this process. Tell me the timeline from the original pitch to when it was in the magazine, do you have? I know that wasn't like one of my questions, but do you remember off the top of your head, just to give the listeners a little idea on the timeframe?

Amanda Murphy:

My memory is terrible, but I will try. I feel like it was first quarter when we started talking, maybe February or March, and then it printed actually both articles printed in July. No one printed in June, one printed in July.

Lindsay Diven:

Okay, it's a monthly publication Comes out monthly, so, okay, it was first quarter of this year of 2023. Oh, yeah, yeah. So just a couple of months, just a couple of months, yeah, okay, I just want to give some time scale. Was this years or was this just months? And it sounds like a couple of months, so that's great. So it got published and, other than just feeling totally awesome for yourself, were there any other unexpected benefits or other spin-offs of success that happened because of these national placements?

Amanda Murphy:

There was for the one article, the taxes one, so that group that originally reprinted it that's another thing. We got reprinted with permission from our association, which is kind of a big deal because I've had four organizations reach out to me who may have never even heard of us before. Most states have a forestry association but I had four different folks reach out and every time they'd reach out we'd give them permission as long as it was like a reputable place, and ask them to say reprinted with permission from us. And then I would ask them how many? What was their readership? And we went from 8,000 plus our 4,000 for our organization. We got it's at 26,000 right now and we're still having people like I saw your article in this national publication, I really think our readership would enjoy it and I was like this is awesome.

Lindsay Diven:

Wow. So it's going viral in the publication space and getting views, which we do social media and we hope that those posts go viral. But this is a legitimate viral Like in the publication space. You're getting views, you're getting exposure, all from an article you had already written for your own use, and now you're expanding the reach of it, like exponentially four or five times the reach. So I think that's super. That is definitely unexpected benefit. Getting the reprints I didn't even think about that, so that definitely is an unexpected benefit. Did you expect that? Or was that something that people just started coming to you and you were like, oh, I guess we can do this?

Amanda Murphy:

The first one was a little surprising. I was, yeah, I had to talk to our executive director and I was like this is what I want to do. And he was like, do it. And then, which is nice, he's very supportive of some of my wildest ideas. But then the next three, I was like, oh my gosh, like they're just coming. I mean it's slow down now.

Amanda Murphy:

But yeah, you know what's going to happen when it gets out to the rest of those folks. So, yeah, yeah, that's just. It shows that it was a valuable article to. It was really good content, yeah, and I didn't know homework.

Lindsay Diven:

Yeah, it was really content that's resonating with your targeted audiences. Yeah, and that's why it keeps getting reprinted and because it's the editors feel like it's resonates with their targeted audiences as well. So in their leadership.

Amanda Murphy:

Well, we're a statewide organization but one of the places was in Alabama, which the Southeast is pretty connected, but one was in California and one was international. I was like that's kind of awesome, yeah, yeah. But I feel like another benefit was the publisher and I went from like acquaintances to like kind of buddies because she, we joked about having to be persistent, because she was like thank you for following up on this about something, and we joked about having to be persistent with people and how that's challenging. Sometimes you feel like the bad guy, but if I want to work with you and you're following up, that's a win, because sometimes I'm busy.

Lindsay Diven:

Mm, hmm.

Amanda Murphy:

Okay, I'm always busy, but anyway.

Lindsay Diven:

Yeah, yeah, that's great. Those are some great benefits and some successes. So congratulations, that's just amazing. You've got to feel good. You've got to feel good for that author, that he or she feels amazing in your association. So kudos to you, kudos to you.

Amanda Murphy:

Thank you. Thank you, you're blowing my head up.

Lindsay Diven:

Well, that's what I'm here to do. I'm here to celebrate everybody, thank you. Do you have any advice for other marketers who are looking to get their content featured in national publications?

Amanda Murphy:

I've said this consistently today, I think do your homework, don't cold pitch people Sorry, it's cold pitch the right thing to say. Know what their audience wants, which is sometimes hard because you also have to keep the publisher in mind, but their audience is who they have to be constantly feeding information to. If you just cold pitch, it's not always, but probably most likely going to be a waste of their time. I know when somebody does it to me. It's obvious that they don't know anything about us or our audience specifically.

Lindsay Diven:

Having starting the podcast, I get a lot of cold pitches from people wanting to come on the show. They're all sorts of nothing remotely having to do with anything marketing or anything A, e, c. I get the wildest pitches. Most of them are like bots or VAs or services that they're hiring to pitch them. I'm just like, yeah, you can tell, part of doing your homework is probably reading the publication, probably getting a copy of the publication. I know I used to go and look at their media kits.

Lindsay Diven:

If they sell advertising because it gives a lot of demographics and audience and descriptions there, then some publications have an editorial calendar posted online, some you have to ask for. But I would imagine that looking at that stuff as part of doing your homework as well. If you're not familiar with the audience already Now, like I said, some of these niche publications you probably already are because hopefully they're your clients. You know that you have some intel about them because you're doing work with them or you wanted to work with them. You understand them and you have content that resonates with them already that you can suggest to the publisher. Did I miss anything else on? Maybe like the doing your homework part?

Amanda Murphy:

I don't think you did, but in this instance it was a partner and I have been to a couple of their events. I've never actually met that publisher, but they're partners of ours and I know their mission and their organization, like how it works. But yeah, I mean, I read a lot on the website too to just be like, yeah, I feel like this would be a good fit. But I love that idea of the media kit because that's how we a lot of times, how we make decisions on how we advertise, is like making sure the audience is people we would want to recruit.

Lindsay Diven:

Yeah, yeah, into our membership, so yeah, that's a really good idea.

Amanda Murphy:

Yeah, ok.

Lindsay Diven:

All right, any other advice that we might have missed for getting an article or some content placed in a national publication.

Amanda Murphy:

No, I think that's pretty much the most important one. Yeah, that's the most important one, and I guess you could create content too if you knew, like what was a really important thing to talk about that's affecting your industry, like the article we did about the guest workers. There was a law change at the federal level that was going to affect our members, so we had a professional come in and write about it and then that picked up as well, like what are the pain points of the industry? What new changes? So, yeah, changes.

Lindsay Diven:

Those are big, big things because everything changes in every industry, between laws or technology or trends. Everything is changing. So this pandemic thing, yeah, yeah, so right. Well, before I let you go today, I want to ask you my rapid fire questions. Are you ready for that?

Amanda Murphy:

Yes. Is there a time limit?

Lindsay Diven:

on that. No, no time limit. Ok, so I'm not going to put on the clock. You're not on the clock, so question number one is what is your number one piece of advice for marketers who are new to the AEC industry? Thank you.

Amanda Murphy:

That's a good question and I've actually gotten to get into this now that I'm a little bit more experienced. But I really just wish that I had someone when I was in early 20s that knew the industry and could help guide me especially from land mines I guess. But it doesn't matter what industry you're in. I'm an experienced kind of marketer who seems like caring, good energy, successful in their job, like doing good things and ask them to help you Like. I had an intern, a communications intern, who took a full-time job and it was a grant-funded job, so she's not going to be able to stay there after December and she's been interviewing. Every interview she reaches out and she's like they want marketing. I don't think I have enough marketing. And then I literally list off all the things she helped me with that were marketing. She was like oh yeah.

Amanda Murphy:

From my perspective I can see what the company's probably looking for and then I can list out the things that from knowing her, I know what she's done and also I just am very supportive because I wish I had that when I was in the industry.

Lindsay Diven:

I wish I knew to ask. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I love that advice. So get a guide or a mentor marketing buddy and if you have experience if you're listening to this and you're experienced look for those newer marketers and reach out to them and help guide them. We have to give it back, just like what you're doing. I love what you're doing. You're just kind of giving it back because you wish you had had it, so I love that piece of advice. Question number two what has been your favorite or most memorable win?

Amanda Murphy:

I'm going to answer this in a weird way, but it was what was on my heart. I'm proud of all my wins but, honestly, the most memorable things in my career have been the losses and the failures, because that is where I learned the most, and I don't think we talk about failures enough. It's similar to the conversation about careers are not linear. You are going to fail and that is not the end of your story. Those failures usually are teaching you something you need for the next piece of your career. So I've been laid off during a pandemic I said that I've built a thriving, organic social media with a 68% average three year growth. I've built a record breaking email newsletter. I've taken risks that have failed, but all of that still is success to me, and so I probably didn't answer your question, but I answered my politician I answered what I wanted to answer.

Lindsay Diven:

I love it, yeah, yeah, I think it's like there's an acronym, I can't think of it now, it'll come to me as soon as we're done recording. But it's something with failure. But I love this idea I've joked around about this with other guests that I should just do a whole show and where people send me like sound bites of their failures, of when they messed up. And I know I have them. I have big ones, I have small ones, I have funny ones, like the exploding ink cartridge in the office of the printer. It's just funny but at the time was like so embarrassing. But so because we don't, and it's an opportunity to learn, it's an opportunity to grow, and so for the person and for the people around them and everybody. So I love that question, or that I love that response. So question number three what are you excited about?

Amanda Murphy:

Building my business has been very, very satisfying and I'm excited for what's next. I've learned with age I'm not really a nine to five human. I took a personality test at work recently and I was categorized as a Maverick, which I was like, yeah, that makes sense, but I just I really don't like being in the nitty-gritty of the details. I have ideas and I like watching those ideas come fruition and I like somebody who loves the details to work alongside and be like, no, that's not what I was really thinking. What if we do this? And luckily I have that One of my interns is like she does not want any of the limelight, she just like you tell me what to do and then she like she's the builder and the creator of, like the graphics. But I have big ideas, I'm not afraid of risks and that term I don't know it just it helped me understand more of who I am and like there's been jobs that weren't exactly a great fit, like sometimes you have to do them anyway and that has been my story as well. But like understanding that piece helps me like know I'm on the right path.

Amanda Murphy:

The other thing I'm excited about is the Barbie movie. I've seen it. Well, I've only seen it once so far, but it's so impactful to me. I think men and women are listening to different, alternative perspectives. But I think and this has been a little bit of the theme too, for this message about the career not being linear and we are going to make failures. I think, as women in the AEC industry specifically, it's so important to support one another, and I don't mean like cliche support one another. I mean, there is not a path of success. There is unlimited success and we get to bring up people alongside us, because when you do, you create these relationships and these situations that are just good for everyone.

Lindsay Diven:

So, anyway, yeah, I love that and I love the Barbie movie. I was totally surprised by the message. I was not going in there. I was thinking it was just some like fun hokey movie. And I was like, when I'm obsessed with Barbies, I still have Barbies. I had a whole like Barbie playroom and I collected Barbies, the holiday Barbies and I was like, oh, this is going to be a movie about a toy and I was like it was very nostalgic, like I remembered I had a lot of the Barbies that were featured and but then the message it just like totally blew me away. So yeah, if you're listening to this and you haven't seen the Barbie movie, by the time this episode comes out it'll probably be streaming, although I've heard they were going to rerelease it in theaters and add more footage. And I'm like milk that money cow as long as you can.

Amanda Murphy:

Well, and if anything, this year has proven that female creators can make a lot of money for whoever supports them. So yeah, there was a lot of fist pumps and tears and like yeah yeah, for me during the movie. It was surprising.

Lindsay Diven:

Yep, okay, last question today how can people find you get a hold of you? No-transcript.

Amanda Murphy:

All right, I'm going to share my LinkedIn, but folks can look me up. Amanda Murphy, if you want to connect with me or follow me on LinkedIn. I post a lot of stuff that I've talked about today, which is how Lindsay found me.

Amanda Murphy:

I'm working with firms right now on audits for marketing, social media strategy, press releases, media pitch policy communication. My new favorite thing is I'm becoming a mentor and getting paid to mentor people with newly minted marketers out of college about a year out of college. Then the big thing that I do, which I think is really important for every marketer to understand is data analytics and to start tracking them now and just keep tracking them over time, because there's really no other way to see what impact you have.

Lindsay Diven:

Yeah, I love it. Well, thank you so much, amanda. This has been a great episode and it was just really a pleasure to talk with you today and get to know you a little bit better and hear about all of your success and thanks for being on the show. Thank you, lindsay. Oh, my goodness, wasn't that full Just full of actionable insights. A massive thank you to Amanda for sharing her experience with us today. I mean, how lucky are we to get the inside scoop on something as game-changing as getting featured in a national publication? Amanda, you're a rock star. Thank you for being so generous with your knowledge. Now don't forget, friend knowledge without action, well, is just knowledge, and you're here for transformation, right? So go ahead, review your notes, identify a previously written article to repurpose and start crafting that pitch and doing your homework for those publications. You want to make the pitch to Think about your follow-up strategy and heck, shoot out your dream publication when you do, tag me, tag Amanda, on social media, because we want to cheer you on Before I say goodbye.

Lindsay Diven:

I've got a quick task. If you found value in today's episode and or want to go further with your content marketing strategy, I encourage you to check out my content marketing clarity course. If you're listening to this episode the day it comes out, then that means you only have two days left to enroll. If you miss it, you'll have to wait again until 2024. In the content marketing clarity course, you'll craft and execute a strategic content marketing campaign that supports your firm's growth goals in just five weeks, without overwhelm or wasting your time To learn more and to enroll. Go ahead and visit marketerstakeflightcom. Forward slash clarity Again. That's marketerstakeflightcom. Forward slash clarity. That's all for today's episode of AEC Marketing Strategies. I'll be back next week with more marketing goodness that you won't want to miss. Until then, keep dreaming big and take imperfect action every single day. Bye for now, my friend XXXx.

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