Intrigue Meets Art Appreciation in Following Van Gogh by Tea Gudek Šnajdar

My guest today is Tea Gudek Šnajdar, author of Following Van Gogh listed in the Visual Arts category on Art In Fiction. Here's a summary of the podcast:

• Inspiration for the novel that combines travel writing with a thriller.
• Fascination with the paintings of Vincent Van Gogh and how his color palette changed as he moved from the Netherlands to Paris to Arles.
• The "what if" that inspired Tea to make a forged painting central to her novel.
• What is it about the paintings of Van Gogh that Tea and millions more find so compelling.
• The role that Van Gogh's letters to his brother Theo has played in cementing his legacy.
• Tea's experience as a guide at the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam.
• Reading from Following Van Gogh.
• One thing that Tea learned from writing this novel that she didn't realize before.
• What's next?

Read more about Tea Gudek Šnajdar on her website: https://culturetourist.com/

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Transcript

Tea Gudek Šnajdar

Carol Cram 

Hello and welcome. I'm Carol Cram, host of The Art In Fiction Podcast. This episode features Tea Gudek Šnajdar, author of Following Van Gogh, listed in the Visual Arts category on Art In Fiction. 

Tea is an art historian, travel writer, and editor of the Culture Tourist Blog. She also works as a guest guide at the Rijksmuseum and Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam.

Welcome to The Art In Fiction Podcast, Tea. 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar 

Thank you so much for having me, Carol. 

Carol Cram 

It's my pleasure. So, I just finished reading Following Van Gogh, which was very apropos because I was just in Amsterdam, and I was also in Arles. And so, I saw a lot of the places that you talked about in your novel.

But let's start off by telling us about your inspiration for the novel. Why did you decide to write this novel? 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar 

I had this story in me, I guess for years. I'm working as a guest guide at the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam. I was also studying art history, so I was researching Van Gogh's artworks in detail.

And something which was always really fascinating to me was that his paintings in the Netherlands are so different from the paintings from Paris or from Arles, where you can see different colors, different subjects, different brush strokes even. So, I was always wondering, is there something in that? Could it be that maybe the landscape or the colors of that country, the city, somehow inspired his artworks as well.

And so, in 2019, I decided to go on a trip. And that trip was two weeks long, so I traveled from Amsterdam. I first went to the south of the Netherlands where Vincent Van Gogh was born and where he first started his art career. And then I went to Belgium and visited some of the locations linked to him over there, then to Paris and all the way to the south of France.

And I was exploring and visiting all those places where he lived and where he worked. And it was so interesting to see about the colors, which are exactly the same as in his paintings. For example, when I was in the south of the Netherlands, I could see colors from The Potato Eaters, and in Arles, I could see the swirls from well in the clouds from his paintings.

And then I thought, this trip is so beautiful, and these locations are so interesting, that I started to think about writing a book. And the first idea was to write a travel guide maybe for the like-minded travelers who wanted to explore more of those locations. But then somehow, I got the idea of putting a little bit of a crime in it and a thriller and creating an art heist novel.

So, this is how I slowly started to play with this crime part of the story and eventually finished my book in June of this year. 

Carol Cram 

Good for you. So, what is it about thrillers and crime that attracted you? 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar 

Well, we all need a bit of a thriller in our lives or some excitement. So that's why some parts of the books were also inspired by real events. So for example, when I was doing one of my tours at the Van Gogh Museum, at the end of the tour, I had a very nice gentleman who told me that he would like to ask me something and he told me that he bought two paintings in Belgium a few days before and he asked me if I would be interested in taking a look at his paintings and maybe do a little art analysis for him. 

Nothing remotely close happened to what happened to my main character. The paintings were very nice, but they were legit. There was no forgery or any crime involved.

But these little situations actually inspired the crime part of the story because I always wondered, what if I actually discovered something? What if I discovered there was something beneath the surface? Or if I recognized some typical brush strokes that I knew from some other paintings. So that what if inspired the crime part of the story.

Carol Cram 

Yes. And the idea is that the painting is from the Hague School of landscape in the 1880s and 1890s. And that underneath is a real Van Gogh. So, they painted over top of it. Is that actually done in order to forge paintings? 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar 

Not that I know of. So that was completely my imagination working here.

But actually, quite often the paintings are painted over. So, for example, Vincent Van Gogh himself would paint sometimes both sides of the canvas. And then it was very often the case with his self-portraits that he would just reuse older paintings and put his self-portrait or another painting on the back.

But quite often we do have a situation that in most cases, a painter would paint over his older paintings. And so, you can find another painting below the surface. So that was the idea I also had in mind because I was thinking how could you transport a very recognizable, very famous piece of art that no one would raise their eyebrows or be suspicious about it.

And this is how I got an idea. 

Carol Cram 

Yeah. I wonder if it ever is done that way because it's very clever. 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar 

Well hopefully not.

Carol Cram 

Hopefully not, but you never know. So, let's talk a little bit more about Van Gogh. We all love Van Gogh, but why Van Gogh? What is it about Van Gogh that you love so much?

Tea Gudek Šnajdar

I don't know. I have a feeling like I'm researching his art for years now. So, his art is a big part of my professional life. So, I guess I'm already probably also a little bit obsessed by him and his paintings. But when you're researching someone's art so much in detail, somehow you grow closer to that artist.

And something which is really particular about Vincent Van Gogh is that he documented his life in detail, and we know so much about him. And not only because of the hundreds and hundreds of paintings and artworks he made, but also because of the letters he was writing. And so, he was painting for 10 years, but he sold only one painting during those 10 years.

And he could focus only on creating art because of his brother, Theo. And he was very important in his life because he was encouraging him to keep on trying to pursue the dream of becoming a painter. But he was also very practical, so he was also financing him during that time. 

And at the beginning of each month, he would send him a certain amount of money for the rent and for art supplies, paintings materials. And then I guess that Vincent Van Gogh felt like he should show Theo what he was working on, so that's why they were sending letters to each other. Every few days a new letter would arrive, and, in those letters, Vincent Van Gogh wasn't only writing about what was happening in his life, but he would also include drawings of his paintings, and he would very often describe them.

He would write about the exhibitions he saw, about the other painters he met. And those letters are, firstly, beautifully written. They read like poetry but then they're also very informative. And I guess reading those letters is also almost like you're reading a beautiful novel because of all of that information and his personality which was very interesting because I think we can still relate with him on so many levels. He was someone who was pursuing that dream of becoming an artist for 10 years and he sold only one painting.

He was barely exhibiting in any galleries or any places where you could show your artworks at that time. But then he was persistent. He kept on following the dream and he believed in himself. And I think that's very inspiring. 

Carol Cram 

It is, and considering all of the challenges that he had, you know, his mental illness and his physical health. I love those letters. I first read them way back when I was 18, when I first started studying art history. They are wonderful. What I love about them is how he keeps describing colors. Like every time he says something to Theo, not every time, but when he's describing something, he always lists all the colors that he would want to use in there. So that must have been a great resource for you. 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

Absolutely. And I always have a feeling that we have his art diary in a way so we can understand those changes in his art. And it's also very interesting that he was painting for 10 years only, and then he changed so much during those 10 years and he was basically self-taught, so to be able to work so much and to understand art so much that you can explore it and you can try new things and you can be so innovative.

I think that's also very inspiring about him. 

Carol Cram 

It is. He was always trying to grow, wasn't he? 

So, you're a guide at the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam. So, tell us a little bit about being a guide and how that's helped you understand Van Gogh even more. 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

I first started to work as a guide while I was still studying art history. It was my student job.

And this is how I got introduced to the guiding world. And I guess I always love sharing stories about art and maybe making sometime complicated or complex art ideas understandable to everyone because I think art is so beautiful and it gives us, same as books, it takes us to that imaginary world in a way more beautiful world or the world where you can ask some questions and you can think about them.

So, I started to work as a guest guide at Van Gogh Museum in 2016, and I'm mainly working as a guide for smaller groups or private tours. And it's always very interesting. Someone recently asked me, oh, but isn't it boring? Repeating the same old thing every single day? But actually because of the people I'm guiding, it's always different because I'm always getting these different questions.

And even after about 10 years of working in the same museum guiding and showing the same paintings, I sometimes see those paintings with a new pair of eyes because of the questions people will ask or things, the paintings remind them of, so it's, that's quite interesting.

Carol Cram 

One of the wonderful things about Van Gogh's painting, you kind of see something new every time you look at them, don't you? They really are endlessly fascinating. 

As I mentioned, I was just in the Van Gogh Museum about two months ago, and there you really see your books practically laid out there because you've got the, the really early work where it was very dark and then right up until you know the work that he did in Arles and then towards the end, when  he got really abstract towards the end didn't it his work?

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

But I always try to show with those paintings, and I think you can definitely see with his paintings at the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam because they are displayed in chronological order. You can see those changes so well, and when you're looking at his artworks in the first five years, when he was living in the Netherlands.

The colors are very dark, and you can see that he was still like, he wasn't really aware so much about modern art and all the modern styles in Paris. Then he arrived there, and he was experimenting with these different styles. And then in Arles in 1888, you can see that his art came to its peak. So, he's producing all those different paintings, like the sunflowers at the same time with some of the blossoming orchards or his bedroom in all.

And those paintings are quite different from each other. So, you can see that progress in the years towards his time in oral. But after the mental illness appears more in his life. You can feel, I think, more of his emotions. And this is where paintings are becoming more abstract. Because I think you can feel, I guess, the rhythm of his emotions or anxiety.

And these are the things which are also close to people, and we speak to people who are looking at these paintings today, 150 years after they were finished. Because you can relate with him somehow and you can understand these emotions. 

Carol Cram 

I think that is one of, one of the big draws with Van Gogh's work.

You're right that we can see our own emotions mirrored in them. 

So, let's move to the novel. Your main character, Lizzie, is a lovely character. I really liked her. So how do how did you get her to sort of grow and change in the novel? What was your sort of arc, your journey with her? 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

That was quite hard part of writing because I wanted to show, well, I wouldn't say a good character, someone with good characteristics. But I wanted to show that at the beginning she was scared. She felt that she was at a turning point in her life. She had all that emotional baggage from her childhood. And when she was put in that quite dangerous situation for her, this is when she's starting to grow because she realizes that she should rely on herself.

And I mean, she was doing that even before, but now, that situation gave her courage to do some bolder things. And I also wanted to show that sometimes she would make some bad decisions, or she wouldn't be the wisest person, but she was growing. She’s someone who is relatable in that sense.

So, I think that was the idea to show someone who was lost a little bit in her life. 

Carol Cram 

And that that's exactly what you did with her. And of course that is the challenge, isn't it, when as an author is to get your characters to change because they need to be different at the end than they are at the beginning.

So, would you like to do a short reading from your novel? 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar 

Of course. So, I'm starting with the beginning of the book. I wanted to read the first two pages.

Carol Cram 

Not at all. That sounds perfect. 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

He looked at a painting and his heart pounded. It was fantastic. A portrait of a young woman in a light red dress. Her hair was so dark, he could even see some blue accents in it.

And that background. The space behind a woman was spill by a dark green cypress tree, which seemed to be still moving. He wouldn't mind hanging this painting on the wall of his own living room. That thought made him smile and his nervousness eased. Maybe one day he could ask to keep one of the artworks she passed to him.

A tram passed by outside making the building tremble, he looked through the window and down in the street. The famous painter had lived just a few blocks away from here. Not many people knew that the coffee machine stood in the corner of his small studio space. He placed a cup on the holder and pressed on the scent of his favorite drink, filled the room, and he tuned in to his work playlist.

Great paintings should always be accompanied by great music. His coffee cup steaming in one hand. He opened a wooden box filled with painting materials with the other. Which brushes would he need? A white brush, two medium sized ones, and a small one. The books also contained colorful paint tubes. He selected some white, black, brown, blue and green.

The days are gradually getting longer, meaning he had more daylight and the ability to work later into the evening. It was great. She found him this studio because he could now work pretty much whenever he wanted. Although he still preferred painting in the mornings, and his creativity flooded more effortlessly, the workload kept increasing and having the studio meant he could more easily meet the end.

The birds chirped loudly outside. He lagged them. They reminded him of the slow days of his childhood. He set a coffee cup down and reached for his gloves. Putting them on took a bit more time today because his hands were shaking slightly. He took extra care, placing the artwork in the aisle, and he examined it more closely.

Fascinated by its beauty. Sitting face to face with a masterpiece always made him feel humble. He gazed nervously. The painting, the brush strokes were so vivid. He leaned to the side and look at the artwork from a different angle. Great. The surface was mostly smooth, and the artist hadn't used thick paint, which would make his job much easier smiling.

He brought a cup to his lips, inhaled the dark scent of coffee, took a sip and set to work. 

Carol Cram 

That's fantastic. And actually, now when you read that after I've read the novel, it actually makes sense. So, people should go back and read the beginning after they finished the novel. 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

Yes, I was really trying not to give too much up.

Carol Cram 

Oh, you didn’t at all. But now when you read it. But no spoilers.

So, what would you like readers to take away from this novel? What do you want them to get from reading it? 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

Probably my first, the first thing I wanted to do with this novel was to share my love for Van Gogh’s artwork.

I think about everything I'm doing with being a museum guide while trying to share with people the ideas be behind the great masterpieces. And I think with Van Gogh's art, it's so easy to fall in love with his paintings. So, trying to teach them a bit more about his life or about the meaning behind some of the paintings was definitely my goal with a book.

And then secondly, what I said at the beginning, I first wanted to write a travel guide to all of those places. So, I also wanted to inspire people and for them to follow Van Gogh and go to some of those locations and maybe plan their next trip to visit some of the places where he lived and worked.

Carol Cram 

Yes. You have a really great way of describing places as I said I was just in Arles and so I really enjoyed those descriptions of aal. So that's a good segue to talking about your blog. You have a blog called Culture Tourist, and so we have a lot in common because I also have an arts-related blog.

So how long have you been doing that blog? 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

The blog has been live since 2016. So almost 10 years now. I wanted to combine these two of my passions, art and travel. And this is how Culture Tourist was founded., I was always writing I was still studying, I was running also a blog about the Middle Ages which was very niche, I think only a handful of people who read that.

But then with the Culture Tourist, I also wanted to highlight some of those locations in Europe and their linked to well art or famous artists. So, I wanted to encourage people to prolong their trips a little bit and go to visit some of the archeological sites or interesting museums. Many painters lived in Europe, and you can find so many places linked to them still.

Or famous architecture. So that's my idea with the Culture Tourist to highlight those locations in Europe and to create little guides on how to visit those places. 

Carol Cram 

So, do you travel a lot around Europe? 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

Yes, quite a lot. And I was first traveling on my own, so I would go on my personal trips. Now I started to work more and more with tourism boards in Europe or museums, who would like to reach that audience of cultural travelers. So yeah, now I get an opportunity to write about those places, visit those places and write about them.

So, I'm quite fortunate to have turned that passion into a profession.

Carol Cram 

Yes. As I said, we do have a lot in common. 

So, one of my goals with the Art and Fiction podcast is to inspire other authors. So, what's one thing you've learned from writing your novel that you didn't know before? 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar 

One thing I learned, I learned so many things along the process. This is my debut novel. So, I didn't have any experience writing fiction before this.

However, I was writing quite a lot because I'm writing on my blog. I was also writing for some art magazines and for the exhibition catalogs. So, I had that experience in writing. So, when I got this idea of writing a book, I thought, I'm an experienced writer, so that won't be a problem for me.

However, it was a problem and especially because I wrote it in English, which is not my first language. So that was also quite challenging. So, I would say that the most important thing I learned was that writing fiction and nonfiction is a very different thing. 

Carol Cram 

So, what is different? I agree, they're very different, but what is different about fiction, do you think? 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

I guess writing nonfiction is much more. Factual. So, you get your facts, and you get your well information, and then you write a nice copy out of it. So, writing articles about travel, they're more informative, I would say.

But I wanted the whole book to be inspired by Van Gogh’s paintings. So, for example, when I was describing landscape, the main character is traveling by train. And when she looks through the window of the train, I wanted to describe the landscape in a way that Van Gogh would paint his painting.

So, I was trying to describe these kind of colors and the brush strokes or, in that sense. And that was, that was quite different also while giving my characters a personality. That that was quite challenging. Or giving them right motivation. Why would someone do something? That was also a bit [challenging.

Carol Cram 

It's a lot more complex, isn't it?. It's a very different kind of writing. I know exactly. 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

Absolutely. Especially with a villains in the story, because of course, like you can relate with people who have, let's say, a good motivation to do something, but how to understand someone who is evil or who wants to do evil to people or wrong to people.

How to understand that and how to motivate them. And when I was working on the main villain of the story, I really tried to understand her and I was trying to, I wrote that whole backstory about her. So what happened to her before, why she is behaving in a way she behaves. And I think that was also quite different from writing nonfiction.

Carol Cram 

Because the thing with villains is nobody's a villain in their own mind. 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

Yeah, exactly. 

Carol Cram 

I really liked Monica. It was Monica, right? 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

Yes. 

Carol Cram 

She was a great character and, and she was not actually a hundred percent evil. You did manage to give her some good qualities, which is what you have to do with a villain.

It's very challenging. I know. 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar 

Yes. So that's what was really hard for me. They worked on the characters created motivation they have and the reasoning, and how they justify that to themself. I think that was very important for me. Like you said, everybody believes they're good.

Nobody is evil or wrong in their own stories. Some things you would never do, or you can justify how well someone else is thinking in a way that that's fine for them. So that's something which was a bit challenging.

Carol Cram 

Because you have to be very careful not to write black and white characters, right because nobody's all good and all bad. That is one of the big challenges of writing fiction. Yeah. 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

Yeah. 

Carol Cram 

So are you writing another novel? Are you working on a new one? Have you been bitten by the bug?

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

When I published my book. I got the same question at a book launch, and I was, no, never. This is a one time thing. I cannot do it again. I was working on this book for a year and a half and it was well next to my work and my everyday life. And during that year and a half I moved a few times. I moved to another country as well.

So, although I was saying, this is going to be a very calm time for me in my life, so I can dedicate that time to working on a book. It was actually quite challenging to find enough time. So, I felt so tired and maybe a little bit burned out at the end of that well writing journey.

So, I was very positively sure I would never write another book. However, I already have an idea for the next one. So, I started slowly thinking about it and drafting it a little bit now. 

Carol Cram 

So, can you share a little bit about when it takes place or where, or is it too early? 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar

Yes, I can tell you a little bit. It's quite early because I also don't have like the whole idea in my mind still. But it's also going to be inspired by a famous painter from the Netherlands and one of his famous paintings which is at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. So, I'm now working on my research and trying to get as much of the information as I can, but it'll be, once again, the art history or art-inspired story, but then while criminals will get involved in it as 

Carol Cram 

There's lots of fodder at the Rijksmuseum. So, so we're probably talking the Dutch Golden Age time. Do you want to say which artist or is it too soon? 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar 

It's Rembrandt.

Carol Cram 

Good old Rembrandt. Yes. Lots there. Yes, of course. I was at the Rembrandt House not very long ago. That's a great little museum. I really enjoyed that one.

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

I love it. I love going there. And they organize beautiful temporary exhibitions. 

Carol Cram 

We were there a few years ago. I wrote a piece about it actually. So, thank you so much, Tea, for talking with me today. This has been delightful. 

Tea Gudek Šnajdar  

Thank you so much for having me. 

I've been speaking with Tea Gudek Snajdar, author of Following Van Gogh, listed in the visual arts category on Art In Fiction at www.artinfiction.com. 

Be sure to check the show notes for a link to Tea’s website www.culturetourist.com. If you are enjoying The Art In Fiction Podcast, please help us keep the lights on by making a donation to the Kofi website at kofi.com/artinfiction.

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