Lights, Camera, Finance!

From a career in the performing arts to managing a finance business and Emmy Award-Winning PBS show, Julia Lorenz-Olson takes listeners through her career in finance and how she uses her background to help her clients. In this episode, cohosts, Rebecca Wiggins, and Dr. Mary Bell Carlson discuss the tools and resources that helped Lorenz-Olson get to where she is today and the current state of the economy.

Julia is a Swiss/Texan who was born for the stage. She ADORES getting to use those talents to empower and inspire others to take charge of their own financial destiny. Spending several years in the mortgage industry gave her number-crunching confidence and a unique insight into Real Estate and lending.


*Show Notes*
01:22 About Julia Lorenz-Olson
07:15 The Start of PBS' Two Cents Show
10:11 Making finance fun
12:02 Connecting with the AFC® designation
14:12 Money as a tool for self-awareness
18:07 Managing a business as a couple
22:00 How COVID is affecting money management
26:03 Your Two Cents

Resource Links:
PBS Two Cents: https://www.pbs.org/show/two-cents/

The Art of Finance: https://theartoffinance.biz/about/

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Transcript

Intro: 0:03

Welcome to Real Money Real Experts, a podcast where leading financial counseling and coaching experts share their stories, their challenges, and their advice for helping people manage money in the real world. I'm your host, Rebecca Wiggins, executive director of the Association for Financial Counseling and Planning Education®, or AFCPE®. And I'm your co-host, Dr. Mary Bell Carlson. I'm an Accredited Financial Counselor®or AFC®and the CEO of Chief Financial Mom. Every episode, we're taking a deep dive into the topics that personal finance professionals care about: helping clients, building community and your professional growth.Welcome everyone to Real Money, Real Experts, podcast. I'm Rebecca.

Dr. Mary Bell Carlson: 0:24

And I'm your cohost, Dr. Mary Bell Carlson. I'm an Accredited Financial Counselor or AFC®, and the CEO of Chief Financial Mom. Every episode, we're taking a deep dive into the topics that personal finance professionals care about helping clients, building community and your professional growth.

Rebecca Wiggins: 0:45

Welcome everyone to Real Money, Real Experts, podcast. I'm Rebecca.

Dr. Mary Bell Carlson: 0:49

And this is Mary. Thank you for taking the time to join us today.

Rebecca Wiggins: 0:52

So today on the show, we're talking with Julia Lorenz-Olsen, she's the co-founder of the Art of Finance and the co-Host of Two Cents, an Emmy winning series from PBS Digital Studios about personal finance for millennials and Gen Z. Julia is also enrolled in the AFC®certification program, and we're really excited to hear more about her story and creative approach to personal finance. Thanks Julia, for joining us, tell us a little bit about yourself and your professional background. How did you get started in this field?

Julia Lorenz-Olson: 1:22

That's a long and winding road, to be honest, no straight lines. I'll try and keep it in a nutshell, but basically I was a theater kid, my whole life from six to till I was in college. I always knew exactly what I wanted to do. I knew what I was gifted to do, and that's be a performer. And so my whole life was geared towards that. And I was and am a pretty good one, but my life took kind of an interesting turn when I was in college because I got married really young, much younger than I ever thought I would. And, married my awesome husband, P hillip, and while our parents were supportive, emotionally for the most part, they were like, o kay, well, you're making this big move at 20, so you're g oing t o be on your own financially. Like if you're making this move, like you're g oing t o make it as an adult. And so we sort of took that to heart. And so we were on our own financially speaking, really young. And so while we both thankfully came to the marriage with like a bit like a tiny sliver of financial education, like credit cards are bad. That's about the extent of what we knew. We sort of had to learn for ourselves. So trying to cobble stuff together as best we could, you know, good care get there. I decided, to kind of start my own little as a personal organizer because I had worked at the container store for time and I was like, I could organize. And so I just did that for awhile, advertise myself for free on Craigslist, not something I would tell everybody to do, but I did it, it worked out for me. And then after doing that and Phillip who is also a theater person, became a teacher, he's a really, really gifted teacher. He became a theater teacher on his long drives out to teach some of his theater classes. He started listening to Dave Ramsey, which is kind of weird because to be honest, those kinds of channels are not really our bag. And so he just sort of like happened upon it. I was like, This is interesting. And so That was sort of the first way into like, just learning more about money and our relationship to it. And then through a very strange series of events, we just decided the route of being a professional performer. I mean, it's really not about talent. It's about being able to embrace that lifestyle and like really live it. That just wasn't for us. We didn't want to live in New York. We didn't want to live in LA. Like it just chews you up and spit you out. And so w e w ere like, well, what do we do? He was sort of done being a teacher. I had a weird opportunity opened up in the mortgage industry, very strangely. And so I just sort of dove right in to being a mortgage loan officer. I was licensed, but I was licensed under another loan officer. So it wasn't like getting out there like hustling for myself. Like I could learn under somebody and Philip got recruited into the financial industry. We'd kind of gotten nerdy about it in the background, if you will like, Oh, maybe we should have a budget. Oh, this is what an emergency fund is. Okay. And we were just kind of trying this on for size over years and sooner or later, we sort of became the people that our other theater friends would come to ask advice about this sorts of thing. We'd just love to sort of geek out about it just as, as you do, when you sort of hit on something that really sort of changes your life and just like by none, other than a miracle and luck and God's grace, whatever you want to call it. We both managed to keep our heads above water in these two industries. And as we did, we just learned so much. I mean, I learned how to explain really complicated financial scenarios to people he learned about like the financial planning industry. Like he learned, you know, all about what an annuity is and all these other things. And I learned how to read a credit report. I learned how to like totally pick apart a tax return by being in these two industries. Not only did we learn a lot, but we also learned kind of the dark sides of these industries are like, wow, there's much potential here to like really help people. But the industry is not geared towards that. Like it's geared to just sell stuff, whether or not it's actually helpful to people be it debt or be it, you know, all these insurance products. And so after years we sort of understood, Oh, maybe we could make something ourselves. We learned about fee only financial planning, Philip ended up getting his CFP®designation. And I was like, I think we can make something. I think we can make something different that doesn't have to rely on selling crap to people who don't need it. And that doesn't have to rely on like basically hunting down rich people. Like, I think we can do this. And so five years ago we opened Art of Finance. I kept my job. I kept my full time job in the mortgage industry as the firm sort of progressed. And then less than a year in, we were at the position where we could afford for me to totally leave my job and come on full time here. And so we run this business together and have for about five years now. That's as nutshell as I could give it to you.

Dr. Mary Bell Carlson: 7:15

I love it. Well, and I, now I completely understand why your PBS show Two Cents is such a hit you already natural at that. So tell me how did that show come about then?

Julia Lorenz-Olson: 7:27

Yeah, so that was definitely drawing on my theater days. So, Oh my gosh. I don't even know how long it was at this point. Probably nine years. I was in a production of Hamlet. I was Ophelia and I had a good working relationship with my director. His name is Andrew Matthews. And, you know, we just sort of became in-state acquaintances and I really respected him and loved working with him. And, when we started our own firm, a huge reason why we wanted to start it is because it got us out from under the really, really heavy regulation umbrella that comes with working at a big box financial firm. You cannot put out a lick of advertising or content or anything that has not gone through the compliance chain. And most of those systems are just like, Nope, too risky for who knows why one way or another. So once we had our own firm, we knew we wanted to make our own videos just as a way of providing sort of educational material that for free and as a way for people to understand, like, just get a sense of who we are as people and like, see if they want to work with us. So we started making our own videos, like it's like pre Two Cents. And then Andrew, our friend saw what we were doing. And I mean, we posted it on like Facebook and like we had like maybe a hundred followers, like literally nobody was watching this, but we enjoyed doing it and he saw it and then he reached out and was like, Hey, I happened to be working on a PBS Digital Studio series called it's okay. To be smart, which is their sort of flagship series. And I know they're looking for new content and me and him and his wife, Katie they're really filmmakers at heart. And so they reached out and was like, what if we sort of came up with a financial show and pitched it to PBS and rural like a hell, yeah. Where do we sign? What do we gotta do? So we came up with an idea of a show, pitched it to PBS. They said, yeah, we're interested. We made a pilot. They said, yeah, it looks great. We're on board. To be fair, that process took a year and a half from like, we liked the idea to like, yes, and now you're a show, but it happened. And then we premiered, I think in January of 2018 on Facebook alone. And then we added YouTube in October of that same year. And I think we're about to hit the 400 subscriber mark on YouTube, which is crazy.

Rebecca Wiggins: 10:11

Yeah. So your videos have such a fun way of making complex topics, so accessible. And you talked a little bit about that earlier. I think sometimes walking in those shoes helps you to be able to synthesize the information, but your videos are really fun too. So how do you guys do that?

Julia Lorenz-Olson: 10:28

We really try and source what we're talking about from many different sources from, you know, boots on the ground, us just working directly with our clients. Like, what are we seeing time and time again, that's a huge gap in people's education. Like what gives them that like, aha moment of like now I get it, we kind of start there. And then we also look at, cause we talk about economics as well and behavioral economics. So like really talking about how our brains work when it comes to interacting with money and resources and stuff like that. So we we sit together as a, as a panel of four, me and Phillip and Katie and Andrew and we sort of source ideas. And then we figure out, okay, not only is this an interesting idea to talk about, but what's our angle on it. Like, what do we uniquely have to say about this issue? So that's another layer. And then the third layer is can we make this visually interesting story? Because it's an animated series. It's not just us talking and Andrew is the head of animation. So he really has to feel like there's some visual meat on these bones. And so that, so you can maybe get a sense of how actually hard it is for us to pick topics that hit all three of those needs. But when they do hit all three of those needs, it's like, bam, like there's some magic there, right? Like there's uniqueness, there's education. And then there's like a visual element that can draw people in as well.

Rebecca Wiggins: 12:02

Yeah. That's incredible. So I want to switch gears just a little bit. I'm curious. At what point in your career did you decide to get your AFC®designation and how has it impacted what you're doing in your work?

Julia Lorenz-Olson: 12:17

When I first knew I wanted to be a part of our firm. I knew what I wanted to bring was very much budget related because Philip once he got his CFP®, you know, it was clear like, okay, we h ave like really the sophistication skills and t he sophisticated knowledge here. But as you, and I know there's a huge gap, like that sophisticated knowledge of like what IRA you need to set up for yourself and like how this trust works and what the tax implications for this is, most people don't need that. They need to know how to manage their money on a day to day basis. That was a huge gap. And like, very few people teach that. And I, I wanted to be the person in our firm who did that. And so when I was looking around, I didn't see anything. I didn't see any s ort of like letters I could get or training I could get. So I made it up myself and then about, I don't know, maybe two years ago I learned that AFC®was a thing. And I was like, Oh, like the piece that I would love to branch out my knowledge on isn't the, really the financial stuff, because I kind of have most of that down. And if what I don't like, hello, my husband's right there. Like, I'll just ask him right. If I don't quite understand the nuance and something, but the AFC®really to dig into like kind of the counseling piece of it, that was really important to me because that's where I love to spend a lot of my time. And I think like that's a huge strength that I bring to our firm is just my ability to like really listen, because that's all an actor is: they are just a professional listener. That's it. So I love to listen and I was like, how can I do that better? How can I help people meet themselves through money and become a better version of themselves through money?

Rebecca Wiggins: 14:12

Awesome. So I want to go back to something that you just said, thought it was really inspirational actually about the idea about helping people meet themselves through money. Can you say more about that and specifically kind of how you see money as a tool for self-awareness

Julia Lorenz-Olson: 14:30

I've been doing this long enough at this point that I believe how people interact with their money. Always make sense. If you dig down deep into your own story, you just have to dig deep enough and you get the answers. Like it makes sense. And so I've loved like taking the extra time to ask people, like, how did you grow up? What are the stories that you've inherited from your family? What are the stories that you're telling about yourself about yourself now that you're living out with your money, right? Like if you grew up in a place of, you know, financial, if you're coming out of financial trauma, like a lot of people are how you interact with your money is a direct link to that. And so, like, I just, I think that accepting yourself and knowing that your money isn't a band, it can't act as a band-aid for really anything. All it can do is really help you align yourself more closely to your own core values. I think I love to see people shift from using it as like a band-aid or a patch to like, Oh, this is actually a way that I can just express myself express what's important to me. Like, I love, love seeing that journey. And yeah, it's like totally addicting.

Rebecca Wiggins: 16:10

I love that idea. I think it's the way you put it as really kind of an interesting new perspective on it. You know, our AFCs obviously are trained to kind of look at it from that angle. And there's so many different emotional things that are tied to money that sometimes we don't realize. I'm curious though, as you're talking about this, do you have any specific tools or resources that you like to use with clients to kind of facilitate that self- discovery?

Julia Lorenz-Olson: 16:38

I think like at its core of budget, I mean, truly just any budget is a great tool for just mapping out your priorities outside of just the things that are like your Maslow's hierarchy of needs, aside from that, what choices are you making and which of these really feed you? Like really what is bringing you true joy and like helping guide people through creating a budget around the things that bring them joy rather than around like, well, 50% of your money should go here. And 20%, like, I, I don't believe in any of that. A great budget is one that you are excited to get into. And one that is a map of your personally held priorities. I've had to learn. I cannot assume my priorities are their priorities. Like I can't assume like, okay, there are a few things we all need. Like, we all should have some emergency funds and we all should, you know, be for the most part, trying to get out of debt because you know, it steals from our future self and yada yada. But after that, it's like, there's really a lot of room there's nuance to be figured out. And I find that piece for each individual really comes when the majority of their money is headed in the directions that they most care about.

Dr. Mary Bell Carlson: 18:07

So, Julia, I have a question for you. I think one of the strengths of your firm and working is that you're doing it with your husband, but I know that that can also be complicated to be in business together. And so tell us, what has it been like working together and handling money as a couple?

Julia Lorenz-Olson: 18:25

Handling money together as a couple of something we've got lots of years of experience doing, like, I'd say probably a decade. So we've been married for 13 years now. And I would say we started to get like serious about budgeting, probably like two or three years in. And then, Oh, it was probably five or six years at this point back, we discovered YNAB you need a budget that was like an extra, that was like the next level. And that just like, wow, gave us such a specific view of our money. And it's so helped us cut through so much of the tension that comes along with having irregular income. So when he, you know, went into the financial business, especially at the beginning, like you, ain't got no idea what you're going to bring home. And so like when we were doing like the older Dave Ramsey method of like, okay, here's our zero based budget based on these deals that you think you're going to land and then guess what they don't land. Now, what we do and getting onto YNAB really, really helped us get away from that. So I would say our ability to work together is like really honed. It doesn't mean it's perfect, but we're so practiced that like navigating how and where we spend and save our money. That's really in like 95% lockstep, which I think is probably the best thing you could ever get. But when it comes to running a business, now that's a whole different other can of worms right there. Right. And we have, I mean, there's no lie. Like it is difficult at times. I feel like we're probably out of the woods in those first few years, you're just really stepping on each other's toes. You know, like I came in, I have a very clear like branding vision. I am like in charge of all the communications of our firm. And like, that was kind of hard for Philip. Like we had, we both had to learn like, Oh, I'm not coming in and wanting to change things because I think you've done it wrong. I just think like, I've see things that you don't. And you know, so like we both had a lot of things that we had to work out and continue to work out as, as it relates to the, but I think what's given us a lot of peace when it comes to running our business is that we've gotten really solid in what are our domains of expertise? Where do I have the veto? And where do you have the veto? Right. Like we gotta be in lock step on that. And so I think we've really come to know what are each other's strengths and how can we support each other in that. Now I think our next level of challenge that we're really dealing with now is just learning how to manage it. All, not being apparent. We have a two year old, right, running a business and running and hosting and writing a show together. That's a lot to do together. It's just a lot. And so we're learning like, wow, we have to actually build in space from each other and thank God we've been in counseling for like 10 years. Like, I don't know how we do it without all these, we have a few select objective, third party people who we both totally trust that constantly speak into our situation and the things that we're dealing with. And so like, we could not do what we do without them.

Dr. Mary Bell Carlson: 22:00

You mentioned that you have been filming since January and obviously our nation has changed substantially and the world has changed a lot this year. So tell us, how do you see COVID affecting the way people think about money and planning for emergency?

Julia Lorenz-Olson: 22:15

I think it is affecting us on a very deep level. And in many ways we, you can't really see how deep the trauma is going to go until you're more removed from it. So I don't know, but I have a few hunches, one, I think it is going to really drive home. The fact that like you can be in the most secure place. You think when it comes to like your income, your family situation, and there are things there are forces completely outside your control that can come and mess with it in a minute. And that is why everyone needs an emergency fund. Everyone, everyone, because the golden times they ain't always golden. No one is immune, right? And so I hope in a positive, I hope in a positive way, this can impact the people who have the resources to build an emergency fund that they need to get serious about it. Like no more like skating by. This is for real take it seriously. That's one. I think it is also in a very painful, but very, very important way. I, I hope that it is starting to rip back this idea of like America being like this shining city on the hill. We have deep inequity in this country and it is unfair to not talk about it and address it. It is just unfair. And like right now, a crisis such as this one, it is, it is deeply negatively impacting those with less means than others. Like people who cannot stay home to protect their health, they have to go work that needs to be addressed. I don't know how I am not a policy expert, but I hope that people who are maybe middle upper middle class can really sort of understand that there is deep inequity here and we can't and shouldn't just ignore it anymore. So I hope in a painful way, this causes us as a country, as a group of citizens to like come together and figure some stuff out. And then I think thirdly, finally, as it relates to like the market, I think each generation sort of has its time of intense market volatility. I graduated college in 2008 at the height of the financial crisis and the people who are my age, who come to me have very big worries and very big, like kind of myths and baggage when it comes to what the stock market, how it really functions. And so I think that, you know, this generation will have its own issues of like, Whoa, like this is a weird sort of what's called decoupling where the market quote unquote, the stock market is doing well, but the economy is not right. Like these two things sort of splitting from each other. I think hopefully in a positive light will make people understand that there's, there's a difference here as Paul Krugman and says like stock market is not the economy. These are two completely separate things. And so I hope it's a way for people to understand the difference and to interact with it just in a more healthy way and not expect things from it that it cannot give.

Rebecca Wiggins: 26:03

Awesome. So at the end of each interview, we like to get the guests to sense or your biggest takeaways for our listeners. So if you had just one piece of advice to offer other financial professionals, maybe they're on their own winding journey to figure out what they want to do. What would your 2 cents be?

Julia Lorenz-Olson: 26:21

Find your niche and stick to it. Don't try and serve everybody. You can't.

Dr. Mary Bell Carlson: 26:27

I love it. Great advice. You really have to stay in that lane. You can not get out of that lane. And I think some people are afraid to on niche that it eliminates or ostracizes others, but I find that just the opposite is true and more you hone in on your niche, the more you're true to your niche. And I call it a niche. It's almost an audience. Really. It is. If you're speaking to an audience and if you stay true to them, you will flourish. If you fall and try to be everything to everyone like you were saying before, it's already so hard to balance everything going on in life that you can't be everything to everyone. So stay true. And I think you guys have done a beautiful job of that. You, it is very clear who you serve. It is very clear who you are and yet the way that you come across, you relate to so many even well beyond your niche. And I think that's a wonderful way that most many of us can learn from.

Julia Lorenz-Olson: 27:27

I appreciate that. And like, that's come with time and practice. Like we were not perfect at that at the beginning, but if you're able to truly say I'm putting my service first, like if services at the top of my list of core values, you will flourish. Like I just believe it. I've seen it too many times. I've seen it for myself like that business model doesn't fail. I just don't think it does.

Dr. Mary Bell Carlson: 27:52

Yep. No, I appreciate so much Julia, of getting the chance to talk with you today. We really thank you for coming on the show and we thank you for all that you're doing. I know that you're juggling a lot of things on your end, but keep doing the great things because it serves as an example for many of the rest of us who are working on our businesses and have so much going that it can be done. And sometimes we have forget, we look at others and we think, Oh, there's so much further ahead. But really the point is that it takes a lot of hard work, equity time and effort. But at the end of the day, it pays off in being true to yourself and being true to who you are.

Julia Lorenz-Olson: 28:29

One more thing I would add to that is like, you will not survive running a business and being like a decent family member. If you don't know how to take care of yourself, you won't because this kind of work, this very intimate one-on-one financial planning. It is, it is deep work and it takes a lot of energy. Give yourself time, give yourself some space to just like take care of yourself first.

Dr. Mary Bell Carlson: 28:56

Well, thank you so much. That's great advice. And we really appreciate everything you've offered for us today and look forward to more coming from you in the future.

Rebecca Wiggins: 29:04

Thanks Julia. Mary. What a great discussion today. I really loved the focus on money as a self discovery tool. And I know we talk about that a lot and, and AFC®is really our well-equipped to go underneath, you know, the numbers of money to sort of the emotions and how it impacts relationships and things like that. But I really liked the way she talked about using other resources to understand yourself better and that, that how that helps people with the connection to their financial goals. What did you think?

Dr. Mary Bell Carlson: 29:38

One of the things that I really like about Julia is she honest and authentic everything she said was really who she is and what she believes in and no apologizing for that. I think it's great. I think that she was really honest about how busy she is. You know, she's got a little girls she's running a full time business. She was doing this on the side and sometimes that's a wake up call too, to say, do I really the idea of owning your own business sounds really good, but at the end of the day, do I really want to do that and spend the time, energy and effort doing it? Cause it is a long and hard road ahead. It's also very rewarding, but I appreciate her kind of opening up and sharing about their relationship of how it's worked to go in business with your husband. And she was just really honest about how she got into the field, everything about her, just really authenticated everything she's doing. And I appreciate her honesty because it really wasn't just about the Gloria, but all the blood, sweat and tears that's come along with it.

Rebecca Wiggins: 30:41

Yeah. That's a great point. And also the importance of support through it. All right? Like she talked about having third party people in her life, including going to counseling to have that touch point and to stay on track and to, you know, make sure that they're aligned with their goals and their values. And I thought that was a really good point too, that you know, it is hard work to get there and you need those people in your life that are going to be supportive and help you get through that messy metal time before you, you know, we often just compare to people once they've gotten to the end of the journey, but I think really painting that picture in a more authentic light is really helpful.

Dr. Mary Bell Carlson: 31:17

Well, and Rebecca, I think that's why AFCPE®has started these community groups and community discussion boards because it can sometimes feel like you're an Island in the middle of a big ocean and it's hard to connect and relate to people. And yet if you're able to have those touch points or people that you're just connecting with are saying, Hey, we're in the same boat or we're doing the same type of work and able to really support each other. Then it makes all the difference in the world. So reach out, I guess my suggestion to those listening, if you do feel alone and isolated, reach out and get the help you need. And that includes through AFCPE®that includes connecting with others and drawing inspiration and vision from other financial counselors and coaches.

Rebecca Wiggins: 32:04

Yeah who are going through a similar time period and can certainly relate and share best practices. So I love that. It's a great, great place to end today. And it was a great conversation and I took a lot of a lot from it and I hope the listeners did as well.

Dr. Mary Bell Carlson: 32:16

Thanks so much for listening today. Please make sure you subscribe to our biweekly podcasts available on many of the channels. You get your podcasts from including Google Play, Apple podcast and iTunes. We always want to hear your perspective. And if you want to share with us, go to the AFCPE®website to tell us more about your ideas. You can follow us at AFCPE®on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram to join in the conversation. Tell us what you think using#realmoneyrealexperts. We can't wait to hear from you.