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Conversations on men's health with Dean, Gee, and George

• Fire Fighters Charity • Season 3 • Episode 1

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Join us for the first in a new season of episodes of the Shout!Podcast, where we delve into the realities faced by men in the fire service during Men's Health Month.
 
Rebecca, our Content Editor, brings you candid conversations with three beneficiaries of Fire Fighters Charity, each sharing their personal journeys through mental health challenges and physical health battles.

First, we hear from Dean, a firefighter with London Fire Brigade, who opens up about his own mental health challenges and the stigma surrounding men's mental health in the emergency services. Dean shares how his experiences led to the creation of Walk and Talk 999, a support network aimed at encouraging open dialogue among male colleagues.

Next, Gee from Hampshire and Isle of Wight Fire and Rescue Service recounts his mental health journey and how reaching out for support made a significant difference to his recovery. He emphasises the importance of recognising early signs and the value of proactive mental health education.

Finally, we chat with George from Cambridgeshire Fire and Rescue Service, who bravely shares his journey through a testicular cancer diagnosis and recovery. George highlights the need for men to be vigilant about their physical health and the benefits of seeking support during challenging times.

If these stories resonate with you, remember our Support Line is always available: 0800 3898820. Be sure to follow or subscribe to the Shout!Podcast to stay updated with our latest episodes.

Chapters

00:00:00 " Welcome to Shout! Podcast

00:01:12 " Dean's story

00:09:54 " Mental health stigma

00:12:12 " Getting help before you need it

00:17:05 " Gee's story

00:20:41 " Reaching out for help

00:29:54 " George's story

00:33:56 " Coping mechanisms

00:34:57 " Spreading awareness of testicular cancer among men

00:38:32 " Talking to others affected by cancer

00:40:23 " Get in touch with Shout! Podcast

 

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Conversations on Men's Health with Dean, Gee, and George

Welcome to Shout! Podcast

Rebecca: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to our Shout podcast. My name's Rebecca. I'm the content editor here at ah, the Firefighters Charity. And in this series we're giving you an insight into the support we offer and how we're here for you too through real life experiences of some of the people we've helped. November 19th is international men's Day, while the whole of November marks Men's Health Month, an annual event which aims to raise awareness of men's health issues, whether it be physical or mental health. To mark both, I've spoken with three beneficiaries about their own experiences, two of whom speak openly about challenges with their mental health, while one shares their recovery from testicular cancer. This is the first in a series of new episodes, so remember to follow or subscribe to us on your usual podcast platform so you don't miss an episode and tell everyone you know to do the same. So, to kick things off, I chat with Dean, a firefighter with London Fire Brade, who shares his own mental health challenges and how they've inspired him to help others in the fire service.


Dean's story

Speaker B: Thank you, Dean, for joining and for chatting to us. Can you just tell me to start with, your connection to the fire service and what your position is?

Dean: Yeah, yeah, thanks for having me. I've been a London firefighter for the past, just over 21 years now. and I'm a sideline, I do an external support network I'm part of with a group of colleagues called walk and talk 999.

Speaker B: Brilliant. And in terms of walk and talk 999, where did that idea come from and what exactly is it then?

Dean: Yeah, so what it was, back in, round about 2018, there was a group of us, six of us, four women and two guys, all shared commitment, shared passion to try and, you know, improvement or health within our services. and realising, you know, there wasn't a lot available. You know, we're very lucky we got in house counselling, you've obviously got firefighters charity. but in terms of how do we get people to use these services, certainly use them early enough and try and break the stigmas that people might have that's preventing them. But just trying to get a conversation started and it was just a conversation between us all, you know, why, why do men not reach out, you know, women, not always, but seem more willing to open up, show vulnerability, you know, admit m when they're struggling. There's this real, you know, man up attitude, hunter gatherer, you know, God forbids we show weakness and it got me going on a personal journey of, you know, my life and my career. And I think I'm quite open, quite willing to get people to talk. If I see someone struggling, have a chat to them. Unfortunately, I never used to be like that, you know, and a lot of people's go to is if they see someone struggling or look like they're going through something, we think, oh, it's none of my business. I don't want to pry. I don't want to make it worse. So what we do, we don't approach and we don't ask them. But I've been on the other side of that, you know, where I've struggled. And, in my head, I thought, no one wants to hear the rubbish I'm going through. Why do I bring the mood down? Why do I open up? You know, so you're left in this position of no one's asking me, I'm not admitting it. And something that could potentially make me feel better by voicing it, get off my chest, or finding out where to get support. Being left unsaid can grow, you know, it can grow to crisis point and get more serious. So I started thinking about why I didn't open up, why I didn't talk. But I also thought if I did want to open up and talk, where were my options, you know? And back then, you know, through my career, I said, we had counselling, you could go to your line manager. But I was thinking, you know, if I turned up to work and thought, I want to open up, I want to talk, I might not want to talk to my, my line manager. I might not want to work to know. there's a lot of stigma around counselling, you know, back then, even more so. I didn't really understand it a lot back then. So I didn't open up, I didn't talk. So I just kept it to myself. Most demographics in the services have a group they can go to with shared characteristics that they can start these conversations, support each other. You know, men, we didn't have that. We didn't have a group to go to to even try and start these conversations. I hit a bad time probably about 11, 12 years ago. Well, I can be honest. Obviously, I was probably depressed. For me, it turned into a bit of eating disorder. I lost a lot of weight in a very short time, and I thought I was pretty resilient. Been in the job a long time, you know, thought nothing ever bothered me. I never really, you know, felt like anything affected me in the job. We, went to this incident, it was an overtime shout and he just. It just rocked my world. I went home from that and my head was all over the place. I didn't know what to do. The thoughts, the feelings, I'd never, you know, as far as I'm aware, I'd never really felt like this before. It's the first time in my career. My wife kept turning around to me saying, you're acting really weird, you need to talk to someone. This, you know, is something all right. I knew she was right. Scary thing is, at that point, I'd done a lot of qualifications in mental health, so I knew all the places to get help, to get support. All the stick positions stopped me. It all went out the window in that moment. I went straight back to that man up attitude, the hunter gatherer.

Dean: And I just. I just didn't talk. And then I fell into stigma M. I went back to the Watch. To me, M, everyone's getting on as normal, laughing, joking. They were all there at the same corner. I'm thinking, well, if they're all right, I should be all right. Why am m, I not all right? So I thought, I don't want to talk to them because I didn't want to seem weak, I didn't want the job to think I can't cope in the job. so I just, I just shut down and I got to a bit of a crisis point where I just couldn't cope anymore. And I went into work one day and to the watcher said, look, can we have a cup tea? And he talked to you, spoke to him openly, just said, look, I'm really struggling. I can't, you know, I can't get this out of my head. And pretty much all of them turn around that point. I sort of said to them, you're all right. How are you all okay with this? You know, we had two new, two new recruits at the time called cohorts now, but we had two new guys. And I'm thinking they've never seen anything traumatic. How they all right, they all turn around and said, I can't sleep, I can't eat, I'm struggling. I thought you was all right. I thought you was right. And what we'd realise, we'd all fall into that stigma of we have to be okay with what we see, what we do. Don't admit we're struggling. We think everyone else is right because we're all putting on this brave face like we're okay rather than admitting it. So what we Did. We spoke about for a good couple of hours how we felt, you know, what we saw, what we did, you know, how it affected us and it just lifted a huge weight. You know, what it did, it normalised it a bit for me. It made me realise I'm human. You know, why, why am I putting this pressure on myself? You know, it's okay that I'm struggling. So what I did, I went back to the group and just said, you know, a couple of things. One, so we sort of thought originally about doing something like a bit like an AA meeting in a village hall, encourage people to come sit and sit in a circle and talk. But very quickly I thought, are people going to turn up to a closed environment, not knowing who's behind that door, bit claustrophobic, eye contact, pressure to talk. It's probably not going to reach definitely the people we need. We, you know, are desperately need in this, this guidance. so then we thought about, you know, I was very lucky. My office in charge at the time, she had a brother in law, that counsellor in the community and he was already leading walks for men for exactly the same reason. We were talking about, getting guys talking, you know, trying prevent, you know, this, the high suicide rate. And he was leading a walk out of Greenwich Park. So he heard what I was doing, invited me along, said come and see what we do, just see how this works. So I went along to Greenwich park every Saturday for about six, seven weeks and talking and meeting with these guys from all different backgrounds, hearing their stories, give them a chance to get stuff off their chest. And the common thing was one, whatever they were going through, it was a little less impactful because then you get to the Saturday they were going to be able to talk about get off the chest, whereas before it just stay. And I think no one knows what I'm going through, who do I talk to? So we thought even without the talking, just to get someone in that environment, getting them out of the house is going to do them good. Anyway, so at the time I reached out to like Met Police, las nhs, spoke to their well being leads and just said the same. Do you have a high suicide rate and a high rate of men not reaching out for supporting your services? And it was 100. Yes. He's like, well what, what are we all doing about it? And again, no one really had anywhere for anyone to go to start east. So I said, well you know, this is what we're thinking of doing. We're thinking of starting a walk in Beckenham, To try and get guys together to encourage this conversation that, was all really receptive. so what we did, I went around to some local stations, spoke to a few to watch and said, look, if you need it, definitely, you know, we will be. Me and Mark will be at, ah, Beckenham place park, half 10 every Tuesday. Come along and have a walk with us. even if you don't need it, just come along, you know, go get like a bit of a social get together, walk around, a load of guys chatting. It can become a bit of a social. So that's where we initially started it in 2021. We never thought of it growing. We literally thought it probably be me and Mark walking around holding hands around the park for six months, no one joining us. but it's grown so much. It's really shown us the need for stuff like this and the fact that we came on the firefighters charity rate, radar, I mean you personally reached out to us very early days. We were, I think we were one walk in Beckham. We put it on Twitter. Yeah, we put it on Twitter. you spotted it, called us up and said, look, you know, found out about it and you, you kindly came down with will and did a promotional video with us. And to be honest, I think it's thanks to you that really put us on the map. People now acknowledging mental health is a real issue in general, but especially in the services and how much we try and cope ourselves. So we don't, we're not always aware, we're aware the ones that reach out, which is high, but we're missing and not realising the ones that haven't even taken that step because they're trying to struggle within silence. so it's nice that you acknowledge that. But for me, the conversation we're having and people are openly acknowledging and putting things in place to try and address men's mental health because it is a different beast.


Mental health stigma

Speaker B: You did touch on it briefly, but do you think there is like, there is a stigma there for the fire service and you know, more specifically for men around talking about their mental health?

Dean: Yeah, it's a massive one. It's something that I'm quite passionate about and you know, I'm very lucky with the, with the London Fire Brigade that, you know, they're

00:10:00

Dean: putting a lot of stock into it now and I've, for the last couple of years I go around talking to watches about, you know, how, how I was affected mental health to hopefully encourage that conversation and let hopefully people, connect and you know, if they're feeling the same way, we realise they're not alone. But we talk a lot about the stigma of the comes we're working in any emergency services. You know, there's a lot of stigma to reach out in the public in general, in life in general. But yeah, we get, we don't. And I don't think we realise as much like us, the employee employers, you know, in general. I don't think we acknowledge it enough. You know, a common phrase is ask the job I do. So if I go to an incident that affects me, how do I now say that's affecting me? Because this is a job I signed up to. I'm a firefighter, I'm meant to be all right with everything. And I think we put that chip on ourself, you know, we think we're chipped from training school to be okay. I'm a firefighter now. I have to be all right of everything because this is the job I signed up to. And it's realising in a way that's sort of true, you know, but, there's a different line between having to be okay with everything I see and do and working a way to be okay, whether that be counselling, reaching out, having a bit of time to yourself. It's not a weakness. It's not. You're not saying, I can no longer cope in this job, which I felt at times in my career when I've not reached out, I thought, oh, you know, is this me saying I can't do the job anymore? Is this. People going to worry about me now if I, if I highlight myself? So I'm not going to highlight myself and it's understanding. No, it's not. You're human. Things will affect you and it's okay that they affect you and it's okay to get help if people know you're struggling, it allows. And take that care. And for us particularly, it's, you know, it's the biggest killer of men suicide is under the age of 45 in this country. Men, are more likely to turn to drug, drink, more likely to end up homeless, lose jobs purely because they don't reach for help and certainly don't reach out at the early stages where, you know, they can get the best, the most m help and hopefully stop it getting to crisis point.


Getting help before you need it

Speaker B: Yeah, I was going to ask you about that with the jug, with the. Yeah. If you're thinking about that drug, do you think it is important to be getting that help ASAP long before you even think you need it, yeah, I.

Dean: Speak to people a lot and, you know, definitely with the wolves. And this is why I'm glad we can go around and talk about them. Because a lot of people say, oh, brilliant, the walls, brilliant what you do. It's nice to know it's there if I need it. And I say, why do you say when you need it, come when you don't need it, you know, And a lot of people think I would turn up when I can't cope anymore. And it's learning actually, like, like you've got the firefighters, charity, got mine, Samaritans, you got. There's a wealth in blue light shout. There's a wealth of places to get support out there. You know, I've connected with a lot of guys. You got like places like we Power on, does a Sunday walk in the community. There's, you know, Andy's man club, proper blokes club, men walking. So there's so much stuff out there. But unless we're talking about being open and honest and getting there early, people don't know that it's there. But yeah, it can really make a massive, massive, massive difference. You know, we've got to start the conversation, but also we've got to let people know what helps there and encourage people to access it early enough and break these stigmas. Because there is a lot of stigma, you know, like even coming down to the charity and things like that, you know, I'm sure there's still people that, that could do with it that are worried about the stigma or if I go down there, people know I've gone to the charity, got help with this, like. But why? So when you start these conversations, who. Oh, actually, yeah, not fault with that. Oh, actually, yeah, I will go and try it. You know, beside, counselling, m amount of guys that turn up reluctant to do counselling because there's a lot of stigma. I'll explain to them what it's about. Oh, actually, I'm not. Yeah, okay, I'll give it a go. Some come back and say it's a game changer, you know, oh, we should have done it years ago. Brilliant. You know, that's only because we've started that conversation, you know, on a lot in a non judgmental, non clinical environment. That's what's nice about it. some come back, you know, say, oh, it wasn't for me, it's not really helped and that's fine. But find what does work for you and it's understanding because saying doesn't work, don't give up. You know, you go here and it doesn't work. Doesn't mean you're beyond help or you can't get help. Try something else. Try my. There's like. I did that. The. Is it the Hope project? The Hope programme.

Speaker B: Oh, brilliant.

Dean: So many people to do that. That was. That was absolutely brilliant. You know, I still. A lot of them, techniques I've never heard of, I still use now. I did it probably about four years ago. I still use a lot of the techniques that I learned from that. That. That's brilliant. But again, I'd never known about mindfulness and I do a mental m. Health journey, but I've never been into the mindfulness side, you know, all the. All that sort of stuff. So it taught me a lot.

Speaker B: And did you find that it also. Because it's sort of designed to fit into your busy schedule and so, you know, you don't have to do it at a certain time each day, you can fit it in.

Rebecca: Was that helpful?

Dean: Oh, it's great, yeah. Sometimes I'll be sitting at night listening to the mindfulness stuff, just, you know, in bed before I'm going to sleep. Listen to. It was great. yeah, I recommend it. So many people I've recommended to see, but again, people haven't heard of it and it's like how people know we need to get that message out and it's working out how we let people know what is available. And that's what I find when I go around the stations. Amount of people that were open up and not realise, like, so we've got,

00:15:00

Dean: we. We talked about a lot of support out there, firefighters, charity in that. And so many people don't realise what you do. You have lots of specialised weeks that people can go to, but people are just unaware of it. They just think, I've got to be injured. A lot of people do know that and go there for their mental health now for, you know, whether it's the week away, you know, doing mindfulness and that, or just a break. But people still don't know after stuff that the great work that goes on down there and we need to get out there because it's a game changer for people and it can be like, it's not just. And I'm not over egging it. It's not just, oh, it'd be nice to do. It can literally be change someone's whole life just doing something like that, just having a week away, just having that break, just going to counselling, you know, just doing Something for themselves. It can be that impactful. But we need to start these conversations. We need to start these conversations. And the best way to do it, I think, is people lived experiences explaining how they felt, not forcing people to talk. I find it's better going in, explaining, you know, your own journey. But don't get me wrong, I'm not by any means saying talking is the answer. And, you know, some people don't want to talk and some, A lot of people say, oh, how's talking going to help me? But it can be a start of recovery, you know, and it can be a way to get support. And that beginning, I felt it myself and it's changed my life. Just opened up and being open and honest. And I've seen how many other people that, you know have joined us on walks or in the job. We've gone to, like the charity and opened up and got that help. Once they reach support, whatever it is, it can be a game changer.

Rebecca: If Dean's story resonated with you, I just want to remind you that our support line is always available to you. You can find details of how to get in touch with us in the show. Notes.


Gee's story

Next, I chat with G, a firefighter with Hampshire and Isle of Wight Fire and Rescue Service, who shares his journey with mental health and how we offered him support.

Speaker B: All right, thank you so much, G, for joining. would you mind just telling us to start with your connection to the fire service and what your position is?

G: Yeah, so, Firefighter Smith, G. I am a firefighter at South Sea Fire Station, Hampshire Island White Fire Rescue Service, and I've been a firefighter for, coming up 22 years.

Speaker B: Have you always known about the charity? Has that sort of been in your mind throughout your career?

G: So we've always, done bits and pieces, car washes, open days and stuff, raising money for, the charity, obviously. But, I didn't really become aware of what it did and how it did, what it does until I actually got involved in needing help from them.

Speaker B: I think that's often the way, isn't it? It's, You kind of hear secondhand, but it's. It's very different when you. When you get to that point yourself. And that's, Yeah, that's something that we do here quite a lot, unfortunately. But, Just tell me when. If you're going back a few years now, I think, aren't you? If you just tell me a little bit about when you first noticed that you were just starting to face challenges with your Mental health and kind of caused those.

G: The date I always put on it is the end of 2018, but that was kind of when I had, my first breakdown. so it obviously stems from before then. but I had, I think the doctor described as emotional exhaustion, in 2018. And that kind of stayed with, with a chat with the doctor and a little bit of time off work, got better and then just went straight back to doing everything that I was doing before the breakdown. so as you can imagine, Fast forward to 2020. I had a similar incident, breakdown, hit rock bottom effectively and that was the first time I got involved with the guys down at the charity.

Speaker B: It's very difficult to recognise the signs, I guess at the time. Were you kind of putting a bit of a mask on when you were going into work, for example, or around other people? What were those signs for you?

G: I was just, stressed. Stressed and stressed. Everything was just stress. I didn't, I didn't have any other label for it. I just, I was busy. I was. I was running my own charity at the time, a dance charity, which is a random, rather hole that we probably shouldn't jump down in this short podcast. But I was running a charity, obviously. I've got family life, the fire service, the. The tipping point where I went to the doctors was that, ah, I couldn't stop crying. and any kind of tilt on emotion made me cry. It didn't matter which emotion, if it, you know, it could have been happy or proud, I still cried. and so when I went to the doctors, I sat down and she said, you know, what can I do for you? And I didn't finish the sentence. I can't stop crying before I then burst out crying again.

00:20:00

G: so I sat with the doctor for a long time. this is where my love for walking and climbing mountains came from, because she told me to run, but I'm not a runner, and that became my coping mechanism.


Reaching out for help

Speaker B: Do you think there still is a little bit of a stigma, certainly for men, about reaching out for help and talking about their mental health? And do you think that's starting to get any better at all?

G: I think it's slowly getting better. I meet more and more people, that will have an open conversation, but the strange thing is most of them are people who are, I'm going to say, in a similar situation, people who have had personal experience and they're now the other side of it. I talked to quite a lot of people online that are quite open with everyone about how they are. I think the problem is, is there's still a lot of people, possibly my generation, a little bit the older part of the fire service in particular, if we're going to be specific to firefighters, I think are of an era and a generation where men do man stuff and just. Yeah, soldier on.

Speaker B: Fair enough. Do you. I mean, you. You've gone through this twice. the first time not necessarily asking for that support and the second time you did. Do you think looking back, that when you did ask for support, did you find that that was a lot more helpful for you and you would encourage others to do that?

G: I think because I'd already gone through it the first time. I was a lot more vocal at the time of going through it, that I was going through it and I was posting on social media and I was, you know, I went into work and told everyone what was going on and, you know, Whereas, the first time, and on the lead up to the second time, I was, as you referred to earlier, masking really, really heavily masking. Like, if I listened to the wrong song on the way to work in my headphones, I would cry and then I would stop at the top of the road and sort myself out before walking into the station, shouting and singing because I'm that loud person at work, that makes all the noise. So I've literally stopped, you know, 50 metres up the road and until I was composed enough to go into work wearing my mask. And that's part of the problem if, you know, if you're kind of in that deep that you know you're masking it, it's like you really need help at that point. If, you know, if you. If you can consciously say to yourself, I'm going to go and pretend to be the other version of me, then that's when you really should be talking to someone because you're. You've got. You're deep in the game at that point, I think.

Speaker B: So how did it progress from there? Did you give us a call and what happened from then on?

G: I couldn't make the call, so I, sent, the email, the contact form. and then I spoke to a lovely lady whose name I never remember. She referred me both for the online counselling service and she also, put me forward for a, trip to Harcombe House. Basically with the view of whichever one comes up first, it's going to be equally as helpful and you'll probably still want the other one afterwards. Anyway. and as luck would have it, a Place came up about three days later down at Harcombe House. So she's like, can you come? And I was like, yeah, I'm literally off work. So I'm there. And it was, it's gonna sound extreme but it was for me a life changing four and a half days.

Speaker B: Oh, that's amazing. So it makes a difference to hear.

G: That so many people everywhere you went like trying to help you and support you and stuff. And yeah, it's. In fact I've sent at least two people down there myself now. Just keep going. You need to get in touch with the firefighter Shari. Yeah. And you need to get on the firefighter Sharon. You need to go down there and, and get straight. yeah, but yeah, it was, it was a game changer for me. M. Which is why I can't talk highly enough about it.

Speaker B: Did you, did you have sort of group sessions while you were there as well? Did you find that other participants support was quite helpful for you?

G: I think the benefit from it is you start off sitting in these sessions and it might be about money troubles or whatever. You think, well, I haven't really got any of this but it's relevant to someone else in the room. But as soon as the, as soon as the conversations start, they all basically just roll back to the same feelings. They're just being caused by a different stimulus. Do you know what I mean? So it's not really. They're just trying to show you ways to make that better. But the feelings in the room are the same. So it's kind of. And yeah, it was nice straight away to hear other people talking about what I was feeling. not everything they said, but certain things hit home and it's like, okay, maybe I'm not crazy, maybe this is a, ah, an actual thing that needs addressing. So yeah, I mean most of it was in the groups. and you know there was some really nice bonds formed over Those quite intense,

00:25:00

G: four and a half days in, in the group as well.

Speaker B: Did you find once you went home again then that you were able to kind of bring some of those tools into your day to day life and did you change things a little bit?

G: Yes. Yeah, definitely. I mean I think on the first day we arrived we had to give out like a couple of words about we were feeling. And I think I only gave one, which was hopeless. at the end, at the end of the course we had to give two words and I gave hopeful and strong, which is quite a turnaround in Four days in it.

Dean: Huge.

Rebecca: Yeah.

G: You know, sometimes you've just got to, slow life down a little bit. And I think when you go on these courses, you, these breaks, you learn a little bit about yourself that maybe you don't know. like we did a bit where on the last day we wrote things about the other people in the group like, like what we thought their strengths and characteristics were. and it's always nice to hear things that maybe you wouldn't put yourself, you wouldn't define yourself as. But other people, obviously, after spending time.

Speaker B: With you, do you probably know as well? Since being at the centre, we do have a lot of online resources as well and one of our key messages is always to reach out, look for these courses and ask for help before you need it. So not to reach that crisis point, do you think that's an important message for you to spread as well, is to be proactive about your well being.

G: When I got ill the first time, I went into kind of like an educational overdrive because I couldn't, I couldn't bear the fact that this thing was happening to me and I didn't know anything about it. It was like, it was obviously something that was supposed to happen to someone else and, or whatever. and so I just literally started signing up for courses and trying to get educated just for myself so I could understand what, what was going on. So, yeah, I don't. I mean, I would suggest even people that wouldn't even consider that they've got any kind of mental illness educate themselves because it, I mean, even if it's not for you, it might just help you spot the early signs in someone you're working with. And it's, it's, I mean, it's a little bit sad I guess, but I seem to have developed a knack for picking people out that are, you know, acting differently to how they normally act and kind of getting hold of them quietly and saying, you know, you all right? And I think the more you learn about these things and the more you learn about the, the early signs, the barriers. And like I say, even if it's not for you, it's worth doing these little bite size courses just so you're better informed. I mean, as firefighters, we will take, we will undertake first aid training. It's not because we, it's not because we need first aid, is it? It's in case we need to do it. And you know, I don't think it's much different for the mental illness side of it. We should be able to know when our, our colleagues aren't, quite right or are starting to show signs that maybe they're not. Okay.

Speaker B: So I think that's, I think that's amazing. It makes a huge difference when you know those, or even just some of those signs to look out for. and just. You touched on it earlier actually. But it is important to talk about it as a mental illness. It might not be a physical illness that you can see, but it's still very much there. So any signs that you can spot are, really important. I think.

Rebecca: You can also find details of our reset programme in the show notes. Just head to the episode page on your podcast platform. And finally, in this episode, I chat with George, who works for Cambridgeshire Fire and Rescue Service in a support role about his diagnosis of testicular cancer, and his subsequent recovery. George hopes by sharing his experience he'll encourage other men to cheque themselves regularly.

Rebecca: Thank you, George, for chatting to us today. as I mentioned to you, we are going to be chatting through, a little bit about men's health topics and I know for you yourself it will be centred around your physical health and the support that we offered you following and during your cancer battle.


George's story

So I wanted to start off by just asking you your connection to the fire service, so what position it is and which fire and rescue service you work for.

George: So I'm currently storesman for Cambridge Fire and Rescue, working alongside a operational support group and fleeting workshops.

Rebecca: What does the role involve? What kind of thing do you do?

George: So any of the operational consumables, I. And then right away from toilet roll to cleaning products and then stuff that's on the, on the trucks themselves. So.

Rebecca: And had you always heard about our charity? Did you know we were there for you from the start or was it just when you, when you became ill yourself?

George: So I've been aware of the charity for it must be at least 15, 20 years. I used to be a fire cadet back in 2005-2007. One of my instructors sadly passed away, but the charity were there to help the family.

00:30:00

George: So we have. Myself and family have got a miniature steam engine, so we were giving rides at fire, station open days or even on a steam rally. And any money we raised was then sort of sent into the charity.

Rebecca: And just tell me a little bit about when it was that you received your diag, your cancer diagnosis and were there any kind of signs leading up to that that led you to get tested?

George: I was diagnosed in April 2021. I now, it wasn't sort of the usual way of finding out a. I've had varicose veins and it causes pain every so often, but that used to subside after a week, so I kind of didn't do anything for a week leading up to it. But then as the pain hadn't subsided, it was a bit more. Right, okay, let's. Let's cheque. Cheque myself A. Something wasn't right. A service case was straight to the doctor and to be fair to them, they were very, very quick. I have got it written down. Sorry. So I went to them on the 12th of April, and by the 28th of April I had the operation to remove it all.

Rebecca: What type of cancer was it?

George: So it was testicular cancer, sort of done the old Google A. But for what they were saying, it was any lumps, bumps, a. Or swelling and I had to. Haven't got any of that, which was even worse. So mine was. It was just firm, hadn't changed in size or anything. So because there wasn't anything online, it was just easier to go to the GP anyway and go from there.

Rebecca: And then what, in terms of treatment then? Was it largely an operation?

George: Yeah. So with testicular, they can't test to say if it's just a tumour, like a cancer tumour, or if it's just a, ah, as it is sort of thing. So the easiest thing that they do is just remove it and then they test it afterwards. Because with testicular cancer it can spread very, very quickly. So time is of the essence. Luckily for me, they said that if I'd wait another two weeks, I'd have ended up having to go through chemo and radiotherapy and all the rest of it. It's very, very quick and aggressive. So, yeah, the quicker you kind of can get in and get sorted. The NHS do tend to move very, very quickly because they know how quick it can spread.

Rebecca: That's.

Rebecca: That's a really powerful message actually, to anyone who might be worried about something that was. Seems a little bit different to them. To go as soon as they can then.

George: Yeah, very much so. In fairness, gps who you normally see, whether that's male or female, they. They've seen it all before anyway. It's. It's the mentality of, of men and I. I will say that in, in the fact of. It's. It's an. It's untalked about a. But yeah, if you. Any sort of change. Yeah, I highly recommend you're not wasting their time at the end of the Day you potentially saving your lives?

Rebecca: Absolutely, yeah. Couldn't agree more.


Coping mechanisms

M. Just obviously hearing that news must have come as a huge blow for you. Were there any kind of coping mechanisms you found just in those initial days?

George: Yeah, to be fair, she. Well, she was stuck with me all the way through. And that wasn't just because of COVID Anyway, in fairness to the GP, he said he was 95% sure it was cancerous. However, that wasn't his area of expertise. So, when he did phone me on the. On the. Friday the 16th, after I'd had the ultrasound and everything, he said, Look, I'm 95% sure that it is cancer. I warn you now, just don't try and take in all the information. Just go with the system because you'll get lost in it all and just, we know what we're doing. Just go with it. And in fairness, that, yeah, that was the best thing that could have. Could have happened. And because they're so quick with it, you haven't got the time to sort of process it until afterwards. So it's. Yeah, it was, it was. It happened very quickly and didn't have time to fully sink in, I think.

Rebecca: Yeah, I can imagine.


Spreading awareness of testicular cancer among men

in terms of the operation and the recovery period, then were you, were you off work for a while and how. How did you find the recovery?

George: So the. The surgery is literally day surgery. So I was in there in the morning, out out in the evening. I was off for a month with it because at the time I worked in warehousing, so it was heavy lifting and everything. They signed me off for the month and it was kind of bed rest and walk about as you can. And then even when I did go back to work, they put me on live duties.

Rebecca: Yeah, of course. Do you think it's something, having been through what you have, is it something you really want to spread awareness of with. Particularly with other men? you know, first of all, to get checked quickly, but also to look after their mental wellbeing throughout that process.

George: Very much so. I've kind of been of that thing. If I can just help even one person, that's. That's better than nothing. And to be fair, with how aggressive it is and what makes it worse is how common it is as well as men, we don't really hear too much about it. It's coming round because more and more people have unfortunately getting it, but

00:35:00

George: it's. Yeah, at the time I hadn't even heard of it.

Rebecca: I think we kind of touched on it. Earlier but a lot of people were starting to talk a lot more about the stigma around mental health, particularly with men and the stigma around talking. Do you think it is? it's the same for physical health. There might be some things that they might feel a little bit embarrassed about. there might be a stigma around going to a GP if they're starting to see things that they're not used to. and it's about stamping that out I guess and encouraging them to get there.

George: Yeah. To be fair with, especially with the testicular side, it is one of them. The quicker you can, if something is wrong, the quicker you can get in there.

Dean: Just.

George: Yeah, it will, it will be better in the long run because of how quick I was. Luckily enough I didn't have to have any further treatment. Unfortunately, what it has caused is because the. Your hormone level and you testosterone level has dropped. But for your. Because they can't test your testosterone level before the operation because they've got to move quickly. I. It only takes point like 0.1% to be a big change for your body. I. So for this side of things, unfortunately for myself I suffer with a hot flushes and sweats and just. That's from doing normal stuff which is. That's. That's probably in the fatigue side of things as well that I really struggle with and that's where I'm sort of coming to terms with. Well that's my body saying I'm either overdoing it or it's. It's still trying to sort itself out.

Rebecca: In terms of reaching out to us then and you know the charity support, when was it that you, you got in touch with us and how did it progress from there?

George: So it all kind of come about from a partner getting in touch with the well being side. We both realised that we'd been through a lot with not only my diagnosis but then we'd lost a lot of friends within the fire service as well as outside. Not due to Covid but for other issues. But again because it was during COVID we couldn't sort of, as everyone was in the same boat, couldn't sort of do the funerals and stuff like that. And it all kind of built up. So we got in touch with the charity about a stay down at Harcum. There was no courses running. It was just literally just to get away because of COVID everything was shut down. But to be fair the rest of rebate that we got from that week was absolutely brilliant and that's what we sort of needed to sort of reset.


Talking to others affected by cancer

Rebecca: And tell me a little bit about. I think you said that you are hoping to come on another programme is the Living Healthily After Cancer Week. Tell me a little bit about that.

George: So that's the first weekend, first, week in December. I didn't book onto the first course at the charity we're running in July. December worked better for me. So, yeah, hoping to go, well, I am going down there, but just kind of see what help is there as well. I'd, spoken to Ben from the charity to sort of say who's running the course, and he said, he has said to me on the phone, I will get something from the course, which is kind of, what I needed to hear. And then as well as sort of meet other people that have. Whether it's been the same cancer as me or other, there's still going to be things that you cross paths with. So, yeah, see how they sort of coped and, yeah, just start talking more.

Rebecca: Absolutely. Sharing experiences and, your own stories will probably be a huge reassurance, I'm sure. Is that a message for you then now to anyone that might be listening to this, just to talk, whether it's to your colleagues, your partner, your friends.

George: yeah, it's. I do find, if I'm honest, it's easier to talk to people that aren't emotionally attached to yourself, because you tend to keep certain things from you, your partners, from family and all the rest of it because you know full well it will upset them. So I do think it is easier to talk to either friends or other networks, like the charity or other, sources that are out there.

Rebecca: Thank you so much for sharing with us, George. That's brilliant.


Get in touch with Shout! Podcast

Rebecca: That's it for this episode. Our thanks to Dean G and George for sharing their stories. Remember, if any of their stories resonated with you, you can find out more about how we supported them and may be able to support you on our website. The links to that and all the information you need to contact our support line or apply for a support are in the show notes. And if you've got a story to share, we'd love to hear from you too. You can get in touch with the Shout podcast through the contact links in the show notes. So whether you've been supported by the charity or support us with some incredible fundraising, get in touch and tell us all about it. We've got another show coming up next month, so don't forget to follow or subscribe.

00:40:00

Rebecca: And I'll see you then. Take care.

00:40:02