#EP166 - The Scale Up Season: How to Create Brand Video That Sells, with Erica Grubman, Mojo Supermarket

Welcome to episode 166 of The Marketing Freaks Podcast. This week, Jon is joined by Erica Grubman, head of production at Mojo Supermarket, a Brooklyn based agency renowned for it's bold creative campaigns. 

Erica shares insights from her experience producing ads for major brands like Meta and Peloton, the evolving role of a producer in 2024, with a focus on balancing creativity, budget and performance marketing. 

We explore the complex KPI's for brand awareness campaigns, the "halo effect" of large scale activations and how budgets can be optimised for maximum impact. 

Key Takeaways:

• Learn how to navigate complex KPIs for brand awareness campaigns and understand how to measure their impact beyond just digital metrics.
• Understand the "halo effect" and how large-scale campaigns (like out-of-home or print) can increase brand recognition and lower acquisition costs in performance channels.
• Gain insight into video production optimisation, with tips on managing budgets and exploring creative alternatives to traditional high-cost approaches.
• Discover the evolving role of agencies in the marketing world, including how they help clients balance media spend with production costs for more effective campaigns.
• Explore how AI and technological advancements are reshaping the production landscape, streamlining processes, and allowing teams to focus on storytelling and strategic decisions.

Transcript

0:10: Hello, everyone and welcome back to the Marketing Freaks podcast. 
 0:13: And of course the next episode in our scale up season this week, I'm speaking to Erica Grubman, head of production at Brooklyn based agency Mojo Supermarket. 
 0:25: We talk about her experience producing ads for the likes of meta Peloton. 
 0:31: We talk about what the role of a producer is, how it's changing in 2024 and also what the role of an agency is in our current world. 
 0:40: I very much hope you enjoyed this episode. 
 0:42: It was absolutely fascinating to record with Erica. 
 0:46: So I really hope you do. 
 0:47: If you do, please come and subscribe, Spotify Apple podcasts, all the usual places a follow there. 
 0:52: A like here, even a review is always massively appreciated, but let's get on with the episode, Erica. 
 1:03: Welcome to the podcast and thank you for having me your your headquarters. 
 1:09: Yes, of course. 
 1:10: Thank you so much for coming by. 
 1:12: It's a really cool rumor in it is actually Pinterest designed this room for us, which was really awesome. 
 1:18: Yeah, we got to, they were working on a campaign essentially about like revamping agencies post pandemic and Mojo participated. 
 1:26: And the best part for me was that I got to just show up and I didn't have to actually produce anything. 
 1:31: I just, I was in the campaign but didn't have to work on it, which was a nice change of pace actually. 
 1:35: That's fantastic. 
 1:36: So, we're going to be talking about your world as a producer. 
 1:42: So, you know, going into lots of different things around it, you've produced ads for the likes of Meta Peloton, you know, and many more, yes, I would say just about most brands and categories. 
 1:55: I've touched in some way. 
 1:56: That's amazing. 
 1:57: So what is the role of a producer? 
 2:00: What do you, what do you do? 
 2:02: What do I do? 
 2:02: That's a great question. 
 2:04: I mean, I think at large a producer is really just someone that helps make things is really how I think about it in my philosophy. 
 2:12: I think obviously there's a specific context within advertising or Mojo supermarket. 
 2:17: But I really think that a producer's role is to take different creative visions or dreams or, you know, business objectives and try to find a way to realize those. 
 2:27: Yeah, I think that kind of making it happen, like we're just people that like to get shit done, forgive my my language. 
 2:35: But I think for us it's really like my friends, I have lots of friends that are producers and I think producers flock together and we're always like, we can just kind of do anything and we only say that amongst ourselves, of course. 
 2:47: But ultimately, I think, yeah, it's just like, how do you help, make things come to life and how do you kind of help figure out the plan? 
 2:53: And I think a lot of times you're not personally doing that, you're bringing together a team of people to do that or you're finding different people who are really great at something. 
 3:01: So it's a lot of again sourcing the right people and coming up with the right plan to help make something happen. 
 3:08: And I imagine there's a fairly large spectrum of activity that goes into that across yourself and your team from logistical bits and pieces, you know, organizing locations, you know, all that type of stuff through to like, how close does it get to not art direction but like the, the creative element and like, is that, is that a good assumption that there's a blend of activity? 
 3:35: Oh, for sure. 
 3:35: I always say when I'm hiring producers for mojo that there's like schedule and budget producers and that everyone that works here, you'll absolutely have to work on a schedule and a budget, but that, that's kind of low hanging fruit for what it means to be a great producer. 
 3:49: And certainly within the ethos of the Mojo production team, it sits very closely with creative. 
 3:54: And I think, you know, a lot of that is we're, we're not trying to be the creative or saying that that's again like our main contribution. 
 4:01: But I think ultimately, if you're helping shape something and trying to make that you have to kind of understand creatively what it is that you're trying to do. 
 4:09: And so I think, I think a lot of creatives, to be honest, there's a lot of friendships that form between producers and creatives for that reason. 
 4:17: Because creatives, for instance, one of our incredible G C Ds, he showed me a brief yesterday for a documentary and I was like, oh my God, we have to do this and we were on a call for it this morning and I think that kind of synergy between like this is a really great idea that I have. 
 4:32: And now it's like I trust you as a creative producer to help me figure out what it is we need to do to actually make this. 
 4:38: So, yeah, for sure there's a lot of alignment and that's definitely how I run the production team at mojo. 
 4:43: That's really cool on that. 
 4:46: What I mean? 
 4:47: I'm sure the answer is there's no typical doesn't exist. 
 4:50: But what does a typical team on a production look like for you? 
 4:54: Like who's involved? 
 4:56: How does it all come together? 
 4:57: Who, what, what's the team structure? 
 4:59: Yeah. 
 4:59: So our mojo production team is structured with just kind of producers at different levels between associate producer, executive producer, senior producer. 
 5:09: And I think as far as the teams that we're partnering with. 
 5:11: It really depends a lot on like the medium in which we're producing. 
 5:14: So if it's an activation, that might be, you know, sourcing people that are fabricating something or working with a developer for a game, building a micro site. 
 5:23: Whereas if it's going to be a film production, then of course, that's much more about who are your directors that you're working with any of the key crew if you're line producing it. 
 5:31: So I really think a producer is only as good though, as the team that they surround themselves with. 
 5:36: And I think that relationship, part of production is super important, like all of us have our, again, like key contacts. 
 5:43: So like, I'm nothing without one of my editors who always helps me save the day. 
 5:47: And so I think, yeah, forming those really strong relationships with the real doers and production makers is essential. 
 5:53: That's, that's interesting. 
 5:55: I guess it's like any team on any project really in that. 
 5:59: Yeah, the the relationships are key and alignments, key. 
 6:03: So how, what does the time scale on a project that like so brief comes in you know, what's the build up to the shoot like? 
 6:14: Yeah. 
 6:15: It really does depend again, I'll keep saying that but I think it just depends on the nature of what we're doing. 
 6:20: Sometimes we have clients that have a pretty tight brief in a clear goal and then we might spend, you know, a few weeks kind of idea on that getting alignment. 
 6:29: And then hopefully we'll spend 6 to 8 weeks actually making it, of course, in today's world. 
 6:35: I think things are just so much more fluid where sometimes you're starting to look for directors, but you're still working on what the script is that has to go through testing. 
 6:43: So I think the very like assembly line role of an advertising agency is changing where again, historically, it was like client brief, strategy, creative, brief, creative development and then productions the last part of that puzzle. 
 6:57: But I think at mojo, it's not that again, like linear, very often producers are involved in the very first meetings because there might already be a limitation as far as timeline goes, that we need to make sure that we're advising on that from the get go. 
 7:09: Cool. 
 7:10: So you're you're a seasoned producer, been around, done a lot of, done a lot of work, how have things changed in your career? 
 7:20: Because the nature of content nature, nature of how advertising is consumed has changed massively. 
 7:28: So how has that changed the role of a producer? 
 7:30: I mean, in so many ways, I think I feel like there's like the technolog technological advancements, of course, and then I think which we can speak to. 
 7:37: And then I also think there's just the way that marketing is currently run within the agency model and how our clients needs have changed, which have necessitated production to change. 
 7:49: So to go deeper on that, I think, you know, 25 years ago, let's say it was like, you're maybe making like a very hero. 
 7:56: Like, let's just shoot this one really perfect thing. 
 7:59: We're gonna drop the film off. 
 8:01: We're gonna all go out for an amazing dinner and then we'll, you know, pick it back up once everything's developed. 
 8:06: I started my career in like still photography production, obviously, that's not the case anymore. 
 8:10: We're on set and it's like, let's make selects by the time we leave the shoots that we can start retouching overnight with our team working in South, you know, like everything is just so much more expedited and I think the preciousness sometimes of just that one perfect thing is not quite the same, right? 
 8:24: You're not just the content isn't gonna live in one singular piece of media. 
 8:30: And so I think that really does change the game as far as like, how can you kind of find re invent the, the methodology of how you're making things, which really excites me. 
 8:37: Honestly. 
 8:38: I think again, I know what the old school type ways are. 
 8:42: And I think that for me, I get really excited by like, how can we like, you know, shake things up and not just do it the way that it's always been done. 
 8:48: Yeah, they do. 
 8:50: You have to consider the outputs because rewind the clock maybe 2030 years. 
 8:55: It was like, right TV. 
 8:56: Yeah, probably one format. 
 8:58: Whereas now you've got maybe TV, youtube, vertical video, social cuts, there's a lot more required outputs or there's a lot more required format. 
 9:09: So how does that come into the production? 
 9:12: Because like, do you, do you almost reverse engineer back from the amount of different formats you need? 
 9:19: Like, how does that affect your role? 
 9:21: Totally. 
 9:21: I always say that producers are like coms strategists or planners as they were called because ultimately, like, you have to know where the things live that you're making just as much as you have to understand how you're making them. 
 9:34: So I that's something again, I really try to work with my production team on which is like, think about it from like a communications. 
 9:39: Like, where does this show up? 
 9:40: And what does that mean? 
 9:42: I think that as far as like verticals in different formats, I kind of consider all that a given to be fully honest, like I think gone are the days where you can just, you can just expect that that's part of what you're delivering now. 
 9:54: But yeah, for sure, I think that knowing where things need to live will shape what the fidelity is, what the approach is to doing it. 
 10:01: What kind of team you're you're looking for also because like I said, I think if producers are gathering different teams, I think some people really specialize in great social content or podcast. 
 10:11: Other people want to be shooting for, you know, Super Bowl ads. 
 10:14: And so I think knowing what those different levels of fidelity are, are really important for finding the right people. 
 10:19: Yeah, it's, I think I love the challenge of trying to find content that works on social and other platforms and often it's very different types of content that will work in different places. 
 10:34: Totally, we have had we work with Peloton at Mojo and that, you know, we were doing some work that at one point was just for their performance marketing campaigns. 
 10:42: And then, you know, actually that work was able to kind of get placed somewhere else and it ended up performing really well. 
 10:48: But I think that it is really interesting to see what works well, where and why. 
 10:53: And yeah, I think to your point there is definitely like that does vary by where it's actually showing up on to like the more commercial aspect, right? 
 11:02: So a brand comes to you because they need to shoot an advertisement or, or an ad and run a campaign. 
 11:08: Obviously, there's a commercial goal behind that. 
 11:11: How do you balance the need to the need for the project to be commercially successful versus something that looks great? 
 11:20: And how, how do you manage that relationship between the two outcomes? 
 11:24: Yeah, I mean, I'm a big believer that things really can look great at different values. 
 11:29: You know, and different price points. 
 11:30: I think it also depends on like, what is the style in which you're trying to do? 
 11:34: Right. 
 11:35: So I think it's like leaning in to, is it more docu style content or like, I think there's good content that can be made for less and then there's certain things where it's like you don't wanna do really bad, like C G that looks like fake C G. 
 11:48: So don't, you know, like, I think it's thinking about the different methodologies that work for those goals and then trying to, as we're in creative development, that's where again, I think production and creative becomes such one and the same where it's like if you know the budget is X Y and Z and you think, you know, you want to really maximize that, then let's not go down the road of shooting in six different countries because we know that that's going to kill the budget. 
 12:09: But I think we don't ever want to be in a place at mojo where we've sold that to our clients and then they're like, oh, but this is what our budget is and this is what we can actually do. 
 12:17: But I truly do think that you can make great work at different prices. 
 12:21: It just the sandbox that you're making the work and changes based on the budget. 
 12:25: And I think that's where again, production has to help with that process. 
 12:29: Again, being completely aligned with all the other people involved in the project? 
 12:33: Right. 
 12:33: Because how do you, that I always think that the relationship between the budget and what you can and can't do is really interesting. 
 12:43: So, do you, do you work budget first and then work out what you can do or do you work out what you need to do and then work on the budget or is it a mix? 
 12:53: I think it's a mix But I'm never somebody that wants to say no before you even had the idea, you know, like I think that there's always different ways to make things happen, right? 
 13:05: And again, I think that does speak to like technology advancements and certain pipe processes. 
 13:10: and it also speaks to relationships and sometimes you do need to like have a friend, help you out with something. 
 13:15: So I'm never someone that's gonna say like, look, we only have this much money. 
 13:18: So don't even go there. 
 13:19: I think as a creative, you should always go where you need to go. 
 13:24: That's how the best work and maybe it's not that thing that you thought of, but that becomes something else that is doable. 
 13:30: So I think all to say that I would never be like, don't even think about it, but I think there's a push and a pull and again, for our clients, I just always want to make sure that we have something that is not only like within their budget but that we actually think is really strong conceptually. 
 13:44: But you can, I think it's a big part of an agency's role to advise a client if the budget isn't enough for what they need to do. 
 13:54: Right. 
 13:55: For sure. 
 13:56: And I think something we do while here also is that there's also the cost for our time to work on it. 
 14:00: Right? 
 14:00: The agency fee and there, you know, we have clients that will come to us and we'll say, you know, for this much money, actually, you should just go do this thing because actually paying us to then go make a really shiny film isn't actually going to even reach your target audience. 
 14:15: And so that's definitely again, like we want to always, ultimately, we want to make work that's actually working for our clients. 
 14:21: We're very big on actually establishing K P I s with our clients, making sure that those are what we're working towards. 
 14:27: And so sometimes, yeah, that might mean that we're not making this sexy piece of film content because the thing they actually needed is totally different. 
 14:34: Yeah. 
 14:35: What on the K P I s? 
 14:36: What are the typical K P I s that you work to? 
 14:38: Oh, gosh, it really depends. 
 14:40: I think obviously like if it's gonna be, if it's an actual product that has like tangible sales associated with it. 
 14:46: It just depends on the nature at mojo. 
 14:48: We have clients across such different verticals that I think the K P I s vary as much. 
 14:52: I think one K P I that I found exciting and also challenging is we've worked with truth Initiative for the past four years at Mojo, which is a large anti, it was anti tobacco now anti vaping. 
 15:04: And they essentially have a, a program to help teens quit vaping. 
 15:09: In our latest campaign, the K P I S are very clear, it's about getting signups for that program. 
 15:14: And so that's one of those very like direct conversion kind of K P I s where it's 200,000 people signing up for that program. 
 15:20: That's really cool. 
 15:21: Like I think that I think we like when they can be quantified and really like measurable. 
 15:26: I think other types of K P I S obviously, it's also not always possible depending on what the product is, you know, as far as, yeah, that's very clear cut, black and white case, isn't it totally? 
 15:36: You know, here's the budget, here's the campaign and it's 200,000 signups, black and white, black and white. 
 15:44: Whereas what, what actually, what's your take on this? 
 15:48: So when you've got a brief and the brief is all about new market awareness, one of the things. 
 15:55: So I'm a performance marketer, right? 
 15:57: I like it, black and white and awareness can often get quite tricky and quite vague and quite fluffy, right? 
 16:05: And you can look at things like impressions you can look at view throughs, you can look at all that type of stuff but how, but it's really difficult to know when that's coming back and turning into revenue growth. 
 16:18: Of course. 
 16:18: Yeah, because there's a lag and it gets quite complex. 
 16:21: What's your take on that? 
 16:23: I think that it definitely can get very complex, especially again when it comes to like brand affinity or things that are not as measurable. 
 16:31: Also, if you're doing print or analog placements for media, right? 
 16:35: The way that you're measuring that is very different than a digital ad. 
 16:39: We've done a lot of out of home campaigns here, which are obviously like the way that you measure that is quite tricky. 
 16:45: I think what I would say is that yes, it's great when it can be clear cut, but there will also always be exceptions. 
 16:51: And so I think the more you can try to define what that really means with your client, I think is really what's important because I think even the word brand awareness like that can mean different things. 
 17:02: And again, also really understanding how are they actually measuring brand awareness because you know, that changes from client to client as well. 
 17:09: It's really tough and, but yeah, it's very hard, like I know from me, they do things like brand uplift studies and you can get really quite a good sense of the impact, but it's, it's really difficult to know ahead of time how that's turning back into revenue is hard. 
 17:27: And I think also the conversion like the direct R O I, that's also a different goal and metric for some clients versus others because R O I could be within one year. 
 17:37: But what about what if it's building those people that are actually going to become more loyal over 5 to 10 years? 
 17:41: So I think again, I'm not a data and analytics person by trade, but I definitely nerd out on that stuff with our team. 
 17:48: And yeah, it's fascinating what we see a lot is when, when a client of ours is running a big outdoor campaign or, you know, having a really big push on other channels, often you see the conversion rate go up in general and the cost per acquisition on the performance channels go down because of the brand recognition and the brand familiarity, it's just naturally easier to convert traffic. 
 18:11: So that's always, I think that's quite an interesting way of looking at, looking at it like the halo effect. 
 18:17: Exactly. 
 18:18: We worked on a campaign for Nordstroms earlier this year. 
 18:22: And for them, it was really just like getting bodies into the New York flag, the New York Nordstrom flagship store again, though, it was through mostly out of home print placements. 
 18:31: And so it's like it was more of that all around where the store is. 
 18:35: So it was trying to create that halo effect within the upper west side to get people into the store. 
 18:38: Did you set a time frame for that? 
 18:41: We did. 
 18:42: But I'm gonna say that I was on maternity leave, which is true. 
 18:44: And so I don't actually know exactly what the quantifiable time frame was but that there were,, our client, she was fabulous and she came actually over from tech where it was like numbers, numbers, numbers. 
 18:54: And so for her, this was like, you know, a little bit more of a leap of faith because she was like, how are we gonna know if these out of home placements are working? 
 19:00: And we definitely put a framework in place. 
 19:03: But like I said, I was actually not working at mojo during the solidification of that. 
 19:08: Cool. 
 19:08: What do you think brands get wrong when it comes to video or production? 
 19:14: Like if you could fix the bad briefs you get? 
 19:20: Yeah, I think maybe trying to do everything with a cer you know, I think like just really trying to be impactful with the dollars you have again like $100,000 film or a $2.5 million film to me just have different roles and purposes and ideas behind them. 
 19:37: And so I think if anything, sometimes it can be, how can you again get very streamlined with like, really what do you need, how can we be impactful with that budget and not just frankly spend money on something for the sake of spending money on it or having that budget. 
 19:51: , you know, I think I have friends that work in like the film industry, like, you know, non advertising production and if you ground yourselves in like the budgets of films or what people are spending on edit for a full documentary rather than a 32nd commercial. 
 20:06: It's actually pretty crazy often when you compare that. 
 20:09: And so I think you have to ground yourself in like the realism of what we're trying to do and make sure that you're not again, like overspending or trying to do something just to be a big shiny object that's not actually necessary. 
 20:20: That's really interesting advice. 
 20:24: I think it's, we see it a lot where brands are. 
 20:29: I don't know what the way of describing it is, but they're kind of putting the budget towards an activity because they feel like that's the activity that you should do. 
 20:36: Yeah, I think also like, does it need to be a film? 
 20:40: Could it be an act? 
 20:41: You know, at mojo, we also do like activations and stunts which in some places can be more impactful. 
 20:46: So I think that's the other thing is like, is film truly the best medium for this. 
 20:50: Is there existing assets that you already have? 
 20:53: I think, yeah, again, there's just such exciting ways to make things now. 
 20:57: for example, like, can you just commission local photographers or directors have them shoot content and almost, it's like a licensing kind of relationship rather than a traditional production workflow. 
 21:09: , which I think is also something really exciting. 
 21:11: So I think, I really think you can make great work at different budgets. 
 21:14: It's just making sure that you're thinking that through it's a classic, think about the outcome you need before you thought about the format. 
 21:22: Exactly. 
 21:22: Totally going. 
 21:24: Right. 
 21:24: Well, what we need to achieve is, you know, footfall in a particular geographical area or, you know, just more buzz. 
 21:34: Yeah, here like what's now, what's the, what's the, what's the angle of attack and what's the best way of doing it? 
 21:40: And then what's the format? 
 21:41: Totally and what is the media, if it for, you know, a paid campaign? 
 21:45: Like what is the media budget? 
 21:47: And obviously like, how does that speak to what you're investing in everything else as far as the agency and the production budget and is the work that we're making going to have the right opportunity to actually be shown. 
 21:58: Yeah, definitely. 
 21:59: It's, it's amazing. 
 22:02: Again, this I think is where the value of a good agency comes in because not all brands will consider that entire mix of stuff as early as they should be. 
 22:15: Totally or they don't have the required experience in house to really be able to critically look at that strategy and critically look at that mix. 
 22:23: Yeah. 
 22:23: And you know, they overspend on production and underspend on media or or vice versa or, you know, and it's, yeah, it's a challenge for sure. 
 22:32: I, I've worked, you know, agency and production side. 
 22:34: My last role was at a large production company and I think that's where that was often partnering with brands looking to cut out an agency. 
 22:42: Right. 
 22:42: That's why they had brought someone in like myself. 
 22:44: And I think that I did see kind of that gap if I'm being frank because I think that production companies are good at making high quality content. 
 22:54: And like that is the lens. 
 22:55: But again, ultimately is a $2 million commercial, even the right need for a com for a company that has very low awareness, et cetera. 
 23:02: What's the media plan? 
 23:03: So I saw kind of sometimes frivolous spending in that sense because they were trying to just go straight to the production company. 
 23:09: We need a commercial. 
 23:11: It's, it's what I think this is why good agencies exist. 
 23:16: It's not, it's not about the like physical output. 
 23:21: It's about OK, can you make an idea work and can you get the right idea that's going to work? 
 23:28: And that's, that's the important thing to otherwise you'd just get a production team in totally. 
 23:35: And I think that's also what makes a good agency producer because I think there are great producers that and I'm not saying one, it's just what your interest is, but I think some producers are so focused on the craft and every single thing being perfect just from a craft and art perspective. 
 23:51: Whereas I think that Mojo, the types of producers I want are ones that are considering, like I said, like, what are the K P I s? 
 23:58: What actually makes sense? 
 23:59: Ultimately, clients are, you know, hiring us to manage their production budgets in that sense, they're hiring my team. 
 24:06: And so I think we just have to be smart with that and that might mean that you're not working with like the sexiest sound mixer, but you're working with somebody that you think is right for this because if they understand the brief or whatever it might be. 
 24:17: Yeah, it's interesting. 
 24:18: I think the role of an agency is developing a lot actually in terms of, but exactly that it's, you know, I think we exist to give, I guess it is the clients buying a business output like a business result and we have to make sure we're doing the right things to drive that business result. 
 24:39: And everyone involved should I think have some degree of understanding when it comes to business totally, you know, and, you know, in my world of Google ads, meta ads, that type of thing, the amount of people you meet who work on it at a very senior level who don't understand gross profit, net profit to basic business concepts. 
 25:02: You know, I think that side of it is really, really important, be able to understand completely. 
 25:07: And I think there's a responsibility. 
 25:10: I think that's required if you are working at an agency on behalf of your clients 100%. 
 25:15: We've started doing these business training with,, you know, teaching these concepts and we'll kind of go around the room and someone comes up with a random business idea and then we do a profit and loss for that business idea. 
 25:32: And it's really, really cool. 
 25:33: That's amazing. 
 25:34: I might, I might steal that from mojo for you. 
 25:37: Take it, take it. 
 25:39: But it's really cool because then you go, well, actually,, you know, Erica shoes dot com is selling shoes at kind of $50 a pop, right? 
 25:51: That's the gross. 
 25:52: So then you take off the cost of goods and you take off this, take off that and then that's what your advertising money comes out of. 
 25:58: So understanding that concept is, is I think massively important totally. 
 26:05: And again, just the context of the market and how the business is performing, you know, like the larger strategic and market context for our clients again, is something that when you take out an agency, you just don't, you know, you really don't have that. 
 26:18: And so I think good agencies to your point will always exist. 
 26:21: I think as much as people say, oh, the agency model is broken, I've worked somewhere intentionally trying to break that model and being back in the agency, I can confidently say it's just not the same it's an evolving. 
 26:34: It's totally how we work with our clients is absolutely changing as far as they might have in house capabilities now. 
 26:40: So maybe it's more of a partnership whereas before they were doing everything. 
 26:43: And I think again, we're very like collaborative in all how we work with our clients is definitely continuously morphing. 
 26:50: But I don't think that it will ever be something that they wouldn't need us for in some capacity. 
 26:55: It's exciting. 
 26:56: I think for sure. 
 26:58: You clearly love what you do. 
 27:00: The dogs happy, the dogs really happy. 
 27:02: That's why I'm just, we're friends. 
 27:04: I think. 
 27:04: So. 
 27:04: She chose to sit next to you and not me. 
 27:07: I do love what I do, I think, yeah, I love the people I work with. 
 27:10: You spend more of your life with your coworkers than your partners sometimes. 
 27:16: So you got to like the people that you are doing it with. 
 27:19: What is it about? 
 27:21: I like you the most, right? 
 27:25: What, what is it about, I guess, like the role of production that you absolutely love. 
 27:30: Like what, what gets you out of bed in the morning? 
 27:33: I love that. 
 27:33: It's always different. 
 27:34: It's always a different project, a different team. 
 27:37: It truly is like you can't really fall asleep at the wheel, so to speak. 
 27:42: It's especially at mojo if you want to be a producer that is doing like a very like structured every month. 
 27:49: I shoot one campaign for this one client then maybe it would be a little bit more like programmatic, I guess. 
 27:56: But here it's like I could wake up and Mo could text me and say, do you want to paint the entire building pink today? 
 28:03: Which actually was a text from Mo during all the Barbie craze. 
 28:09: No, because I told him what it cost and he said, let's Photoshop it instead. 
 28:14: But yeah, like I just, again, for me, it's just the variety and like the unexpected nature. 
 28:18: Again, I was talking about this documentary and we were having a preliminary interview with the people that are the potential subjects this morning. 
 28:25: And like that was super exciting. 
 28:27: So I've never worked on a long form documentary, but that's something I would really like to do. 
 28:30: So it's just the variety for me. 
 28:32: Yeah, I, I, I love that also and in a world that's changing constantly totally. 
 28:38: And you truly like, you have to stay up with it, right? 
 28:41: Like I was on maternity leave, taking an A I and production class while I was on maternity leave. 
 28:45: And like, I love that things are innovating. 
 28:48: And I think the more that we have these technological advancements, the more it requires more creativity and strategic thinking from us. 
 28:57: And so I think that's like we're just getting smarter because of that, which is really exciting. 
 29:01: You've mentioned tech and advancements and changes. 
 29:08: Well, what do you summarize what you mean by that, I mean, I think when it comes to like, just like brass tax production, obviously, there's just technological advancements as far as the way that things are made via a i quicker technology, even the fact that we can sit here and you can have amazing cameras with minimal equipment. 
 29:26: So I think just like the speed in which we're able to do things is really exciting and I don't think again, I think clients will always want to do things more quickly than is possible. 
 29:37: But I think there are just, we were just, I was chatting with a friend earlier this morning who works in virtual production. 
 29:42: And she was showing me her work with, you know, shooting on stages, but with different backgrounds and essentially, it was because the talent who was a celebrity didn't want to travel to multiple locations. 
 29:52: So they shot it all in virtual production and I could not tell. 
 29:55: And so I think, and I've worked on one other virtual production thing, but like the thing I did was four or five years ago and it was still just a bit clunkier. 
 30:03: And now with game engine Unreal, it feels like that's just actually really expedited. 
 30:07: And so, yeah, I think that it's not making things easier or necessarily quicker, but I think you can do more with what you have, which is exciting. 
 30:17: I think the role is changing, right? 
 30:20: So the nature of the job with things like A I and different tech is that the skills required to do a good job is going to be quite different. 
 30:31: Totally. 
 30:32: It's not that the jobs are being replaced. 
 30:34: It's that the role of the human being in the mix is just going to be a bit different completely. 
 30:40: Yeah, there is this amazing cloud based edit software that I was A I based, a cloud based edit software that has really awesome A I integrations that, you know, just small things like transcribing your captions, making sure everything is in the right framing like that stuff is automated in a way that's so much quicker where I'm like, great. 
 30:58: Now you can spend more time crafting the story of your edit because you don't have to think about the safety zone for X Y and Z format 100 percent. 
 31:04: It puts, it allows you as the human being to spend more of your time thinking about what's going to work best trying to get someone to transcribe your captions. 
 31:17: Yeah. 
 31:17: And I would love, I never had to talk about a safety zone for the difference between Facebook versus Instagram and make, you know, like if that stuff could be automated. 
 31:25: That sounds amazing. 
 31:27: And I think if you can pick up someone's edit from three different cities at the same time and work collaboratively, there was even again, like A I prompt integration where you could be like this needs to be a teaser that I would show my mom for her birth. 
 31:39: Like you can just quantitate qualitatively describe what you want your edit to be. 
 31:43: And it will give you some version of that. 
 31:45: Obviously, it's not going to be perfect, but like that's a great starting point. 
 31:48: If you aren't a time crunch, even the basic stuff still blows my mind. 
 31:52: You know, the fact that even, I don't know, 23 years ago to get captions, you'd probably have to find someone who could do it or go to a service online and commission some to do it. 
 32:05: Now. 
 32:06: You can write, click and premiere and, and it's quite good. 
 32:10: Totally. 
 32:11: Yeah, I mean, yeah, captions alone are a great reason for a, what a time. 
 32:15: So it's just such a time suck. 
 32:16: And it's the thing that you'll make a mistake on honestly when you're working quickly, it's like the amount of times, you know, that's come back from a client that's been like, can you make sure you fix that next time? 
 32:25: Yeah, it's that time saves just, yeah, love that. 
 32:29: Totally. 
 32:29: So, wrap up, what would, what's your like one biggest piece of advice for brand that's considering some video production or running a campaign? 
 32:40: Like if you go, please think of this one thing, please think of this one thing I think what I would say is think of what you want that one thing to do. 
 32:48: What is, what is the purpose of that. 
 32:51: Is it a story you're trying to tell? 
 32:53: Is it a really clear business goal that you have? 
 32:56: I think that, yeah, consider what the idea is and then you'll be able to make anything with the right team of people. 
 33:03: But I think really getting, yeah, making sure that you're clear on what you want first and foremost. 
 33:09: Amazing. 
 33:10: Well, look, thank you so much for so, yeah, of course. 
 33:12: Thanks for stopping by. 
 33:13: If, if anyone's listening to the audio version of this, you got to have a look at some of the video because this room is extremely cool, the speakeasy of mojo. 
 33:24: It's amazing. 
 33:24: Look, thanks so much. 
 33:25: Thank you so much. 
 33:26: Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to this episode very much. 
 33:30: Hope you enjoyed it. 
 33:32: The marketing freaks podcast is brought to you by overdrive digital specialists in performance marketing. 
 33:37: So if you need help to improve the performance of your campaigns, please do get in touch and you can find us at overdrive digital dot co dot UK. 
 33:46: Hope to see you on the next episode.