Well...Basically
Well...Basically
173:Shame Explained
Have you ever replayed a cringeworthy moment in your head and felt the ground swallow you whole? Yeah, me too. We're peeling back the layers of shame in this episode, sharing stories of past embarrassments that refuse to fade and the gut-punches of recent gaffes. We don't just wallow in the awkward though; we also celebrate the power of facing our blunders head-on. From schoolyard accidents to adult faux pas like forgotten birthdays, we chat about strategies to confront shame and stay true to our values, even when it feels like hiding is the easier option.
Ever felt like an outsider because you didn't catch the latest episode of that hit series everyone's talking about? Join the club. In our candid conversation, we confess to the pop culture phenomena that have somehow passed us by. We're talking the 'Star Wars' saga, the intricate plots of 'Breaking Bad', and even the allure of nostalgic rewatching when life turns down the volume on joy. The discussion takes a humorous turn as we recount a hilarious mix-up with protein powder, a tale that anyone who's ever stepped foot in a gym will relate to. And yes, we even address the odd phenomenon of consuming epic narratives through TikTok clips.
this is well, basically with your host, mike de silva, and sam weeks on today's show we talked about shame.
Speaker 2:Do you experience shame? Have you experienced shame? How do you resolve these feelings of shame? What does shame mean to us? How have we experienced shame in the past? How have we resolved shame in the past? We hope you enjoy today's show. This is Well. Basically as long as one we've ever done. Are there any other like really famous media that you haven't consumed? Star Wars.
Speaker 1:Star Wars, Lord of the Rings probably a whole bunch. I don't know if I watch that many films. It's weird that you haven't consumed Star Wars, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings probably a whole bunch. I don't know if I watch that many films. It's weird that you haven't seen Lord of the Rings, Breaking Bad. You haven't seen Dune. I feel like I'd enjoy Breaking Bad. Yeah, Breaking Bad's good.
Speaker 2:I've missed the ship now. No, you haven't. I watched it last year for the first time.
Speaker 1:Well, I have watched probably 80% of it in like 45 second TikTok clips. Oh yeah, so I know the story. I know exactly what happened.
Speaker 2:That strangely happened to me while I was watching it, like I was in the middle of the show and then I kept getting fed all of these little clips on YouTube and stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It actually TikTok gets me to watch a lot of TV. I started watching the Gilded Age, which is like the American version of Downton Abbey, oh it. Watching the gilded age, which is like the american version of downton abbey, oh, it's like even more earnest than that show. How it's american. Well yeah, americans are real earnest, they're the most earnest, I guess. So, um, and it's like real trash viewing, but I like it what about reality tv?
Speaker 2:have you ever watched any of that? I?
Speaker 1:used to watch a lot of reality TV. Rupaul's Drag Race was like the gateway into it.
Speaker 2:That is like reality TV, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It's incredibly Well. The first, like six, seven seasons are like the most reality.
Speaker 2:TV. Oh my God, me and Chloe watched season one.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, yeah, the Vaseline season, where the whole thing's done through the like glitzy, shitty camera that they had, yeah, what the hell.
Speaker 2:It's weird that you haven't seen Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think. I think I watched one of them with my housemates last year, but um, do you know?
Speaker 2:which one.
Speaker 1:Obviously the first one, the first one.
Speaker 2:How many are there? Well, there's six, but the Hobbits the Hobbit films are more trash.
Speaker 1:Dunk a ring in lava. Yeah, they really stretch that out. Yeah, that's true. Um no, yeah, star wars didn't make the cut, though I just I don't really like the universe.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna be honest well, the original trilogy is pretty good. You've read dune now so you can watch and be like wow, george lucas stole a lot yeah, everyone did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, yeah, I might watch it. That'll be a good depression. Watch, I reckon, because I'll know what's coming. That's it. That's what you want. When you're sad is like I know the next beat really yeah you want to know what to expect.
Speaker 2:It's like people just being surprised making more set. So if I dressed up as a birthday clown and jumped out from behind the door to make you happy?
Speaker 1:why? Yeah, that would. That would really upset me. So people go back to like friends in the office when they're in their little depression holes, because the story is known yeah.
Speaker 2:I never really got into friends or the office.
Speaker 1:No, they're not challenging, which that's what I like about them. I don't want. They're not everything's wrapped up nicely every single episode. There's very few story arcs that last a really long time, that, like, have substance or you don't know that you, the story arcs you know are going to resolve nicely because otherwise the show wouldn't have continued.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean this shows like um, what am I? What? My housemates watching that like cowboy succession show? Oh, yellowstone, yeah, they're watching that and I've seen only snippets of what they've been watching. And um, things don't get better. No storyline is resolving well in that show oh yeah, that's like ozark.
Speaker 2:Have you watched that? Oh no, I really want to watch that one you actually really like it's got the guy from arrested development. Yeah, it does, and he's being serious, oh god, very serious. He's serious in Arrested Development too. And the whole thing looks amazing because it's all filmed like David Fincher, esque blues, yeah.
Speaker 1:Every hour is the hour of twilight.
Speaker 2:But it's got that Breaking Bad vibe where just like things just keep going wrong and they're like they try to fix it and then it just makes everything worse and then it just makes everything worse, and then it just piles on and piles on and piles on.
Speaker 1:The show just feels like it's going to explode at any given moment Not a good depression show, I would say no, no, no, wow, the walls they're moving in. Oh my God. Hey, you know what I? This is not related to TV. I get protein powder from this one company and they have two kinds. They have the high protein version and they have the regular version. And the high protein version is 30 grams of protein per serve and the regular is 22 grams of protein per serve. That makes sense, doesn't it? That all weighs up. I looked at it. So they're the same size. It's the same amount of powder that you get in both of them. And I was like I wonder if the scoop's bigger, isn't it? No, the scoop's the same size. It's so much stupider that I didn't pick this up earlier. The regular protein powder tells you to put one scoop in and the high protein tells you to put one and a half scoops in.
Speaker 2:Wait, no, that can't be right. Yeah, so actually One's a concentrate and one's an isolate, which just has more protein.
Speaker 1:Well, I can take a pic of the back of them both when I go next to the shops and I'll show you for comparison, because there has to be something else in it. Because the other thing is the maths doesn't work out the regular protein powder on the 22 grams. I've just been putting a scoop and a half of that into mine. It's cheaper and it seems higher protein because the maths works out that it's 33 grams and if it's 22 grams for one scoop, then one and a half scoops would be 33 grams, which is more than the high protein for the same scoopage. Wow, that's nuts.
Speaker 2:So I'm wondering they didn't get you.
Speaker 1:Well, they got me for probably about five months of me buying the uh, the high protein stuff before I was like I'm gonna I'm sure.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you know what, though I'm pretty sure it'll be the type of protein that it is, I'm not convinced it's the story I told before way protein isolate, and one will be where protein I'll show you and we can confirm it, but I don't trust brands on this, because we talked about this before milo. They brought up the high protein. My oh yeah, we did talk about that and they they. The only change they made was you just put more of it as the standard serving.
Speaker 2:That's good. I like it. It's not nearly loud enough, is it? Come on, stevie? Old recording. We're going to play a happy song today. Welcome, welcome, welcome. It's a podcast, it's called. Well, basically, I am here, andrew is here, mikey has gone to New Zealand, but he'll be back next week.
Speaker 1:He's here in spirit Unless something happens on the plane. Ah yeah, let's not wish that bad luck on him.
Speaker 2:He'll be thinking about that already. Yeah, he's got it covered he hates flights. We're here to talk about some stuff and things. Some of it fitness related and some of it mental health related, some of it just everything related. We talk about everything and nothing all at once. If that sounds like a bit of you, keep on listening, have a dance, happy Sunday. If that sounds like a bit of you, keep on listening, have a dance, happy Sunday. Chloe said I played this song in the car today and she's like I don't like his voice. I'm like it's Stevie Wonder. He's blind. That's a hate crime.
Speaker 1:It is a hate crime that. She said that it's a little whiny. I feel like this is the kind of voice that would like tell the teacher he is one of the greatest artists ever In this song.
Speaker 2:he's very like wow, wow, waiting for your love, for your love, Okay.
Speaker 1:I've insulted Stevie and therefore I've insulted Sammy.
Speaker 2:I don't appreciate musical enough.
Speaker 1:It's fine, it's a beautiful song, but he sounds like he's about to tell a teacher that there was homework due. Let's talk about shame though. Yeah, we love shame, we do, we really do love shame.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you know what shame is?
Speaker 2:Should I give you my definition? I would love your definition. It's feeling bad about something you did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's basically the crux of it. Yeah, it's like this feeling of embarrassment or this feeling of negativity towards yourself, about being conscious of a bad decision you made or a bad action that you took. It's basically feeling bad about what you did.
Speaker 2:I just stretched out the words, really long there, you did, you really did a good job.
Speaker 1:The Google definition is pretty similar to what you said. It's a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behavior.
Speaker 1:I love the foolishness in there, it's a guy with a little jester hat on. Oh, um, it is, I think, a pervasive emotion. Um and I was talking to you about this before it is a very primordial emotion, I feel it's one that we don't often tap into and feel the shame directly. We usually feel one of the auxiliary emotions that comes off it so often. If you do something that's silly or bad, you will, or you can hear the breath every time. I'm so excited talking about this. It's a shameful man. No, I'm not shameful. I love my breath, my lung full of vape juice.
Speaker 1:I'd be ashamed of your breath, my breath, my breath. Um, when you do something that is embarrassing or you feel is out of like kilter with your beliefs and your values, you will generally react with some kind of like embarrassment or anger or sadness and you'll identify the embarrassment, anger or sadness or anxiety or something like that. But rarely are you linking it directly to the shame. You'll just kind of feel this like well, and often what happens with shame, if it's a really bad one, if you go to a party and make a fool of yourself, you will then you'll then like kind of scrub that from your mind. You'll try not to think about it so much.
Speaker 1:And so you'll never be like latching onto the issue. So shame really pervades a lot of the parts of your life and it dictates a lot of the behavior that you have. Because I would like to say that I act always in accordance with my values, that I'm always kind of acting down the straight and narrow, but I know I don't and I'm not going to disparage you. Sammy, but I think you're probably aware that sometimes as a human you err.
Speaker 1:To err is to be human Classic, so I wanted to talk a little bit about it today and some of the different facets of it, and maybe some of the things that you or I used to deal with. Shame. Um, I'm not gonna sit here and say that I've conquered it. I haven't. No, I don't think I ever will. I, there's shame in everything that happens. It's like part of human nature, um, but I was trying to think of times recently that I've, like done something that I'm a little ashamed of, and it's tough to talk about it on a podcast, cause I don't want to sit here and be like, oh, how terrible am I? I'll tell these like awful, awful stories. Why don't you go back in time further? No, because further is like me being a kid. Oh, actually I can tell. When I was a kid, I, um, we're the playground and we were just like throwing sticks around. It was high school and throwing sticks around what a crazy that's so stupid.
Speaker 2:What did we do with our time? It was like lunchtime.
Speaker 1:People have ipads now they don't need. Yeah, no, they can. They can get the stick throwing app um, and I held this stick I don't know why like directly, like this huge lob in the air straight at this group of girls, and it just whacked one of them in the face and she obviously went to the ground and then they had to take her to the sick room and then I got brought into the principal's office and I was beside myself because obviously this was about me at this point.
Speaker 2:I had done something so wrong.
Speaker 1:But I was so embarrassed and I was like really I was just so sad about what had happened and like regretful that I'd even thrown that stick. Um, and the principal was actually really good about it. I mean, I was in year seven, so I would. Obviously he's not expecting me to be like mother.
Speaker 1:Teresa um brought me in and was like, do you know what you did wrong? And I was like basically welling up and crying and I was like I guess I know what they did wrong. I hospitalized a school friend. Um, uh, but it was like it's a real, it stands out in my head. Is this real moment of like that day and then all those days afterwards, and I was really good friends with this girl as well, so obviously it was embarrassing to like see her after that and we continued to be friends as well. But, um, back then it was like this big feeling of shame of what I'd done and like there was no action I could take to like take back what I'd done. There was just like this, this ever-present feeling of like guilt over over having caused it.
Speaker 1:Um, more recently, um, I, I had mixed up the date. It was like last year I mixed up the date of my father's birthday and saw him on his birthday. I was coming back for the weekend, so it was supposed to be like a weekend birthday trip and I thought it was the second day and he picked me up at the station and then driven me back home on the day of his birthday and I hadn't wished him happy birthday, and it wasn't until later that night that I realized and me not being like an incredibly well-adjusted person, was like, oh god, now I can't like what. Do I do go up to him and be like I'm so sorry, I forgot your birthday? Or do I go in and wish him happy birthday? So nothing happened, or? Um, and I think this touches on something that happens with shame, and it's a shame spiral where the shame that you're feeling makes you continue to act in a way that's out of kilter with your values. So, instead of going and being like, hey, dad, I'm so sorry, I mixed up the dates and thought your birthday was tomorrow Very easy to say I was like I'm just going to ignore it, I'm just going to pretend like this didn't happen, because that is the thing, that's the easiest thing I can do for myself right now, because I'm so embarrassed about what I've done and it's obviously no big deal.
Speaker 1:My dad loves me very much. Um, he understands, and we're up there for his birthday. Like there was plenty of birthday wishes going around, um, but I just, I just it sat with me and sat with me for months afterwards as well, cause I was like I'm just a terrible person. Um, so it was a very, it was a very, it's just a. It's a very teasing experience for yourself, I think, or for me, when I feel it, because I then start to like shut off, and shutting off is often the worst thing you can do when you've done something that's so stupid and so wrong, because all people want is you to turn around and be like I am a dickhead.
Speaker 2:Like please. I'm sorry, I see how badly.
Speaker 1:I've acted. Have you had any similar?
Speaker 2:experiences I'm trying to think of a lately one Like your one had me think of an incident in school where we were playing Bull Rush and I was Bull Rush. Could you explain the rules? Oh, bull Rush is when you there are like people in the middle of the field and people have to get past them, but you have to tackle the people. Yes, that's right, take to the ground. And I tackled someone, but like also like fell into a girl. And I tackled someone, but like also like fell into a girl. Uh, and I was like six this is like my earliest memory of shame.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I felt so bad and I got I was in heaps of trouble because I think she like broke her arm because we both fell in a room. It's definitely my fault, um, but similar story to you and that I was very upset and very, very young as well.
Speaker 1:And I remember her name.
Speaker 2:Sorry, Ashveni Saisa Is that her full name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm like she's getting a doc.
Speaker 2:No, please, no, I can bleep it out, yeah, but more recently and we talked about this before and it's not super recent, although I probably have things like shameful moments that I'm not like probably, maybe I just block them out, um, and go into that shame spiral uh was, uh, I was sort of seeing a girl for a little while, um, and then I lost interest, uh, but just stopped communicating classic, the classic ghosting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really, was it like the bleed off communicating where she'd send a message and you'd give her like a couple of words back?
Speaker 2:It was more sort of I think I made like music an excuse because I was at university studying at the time and I was like it's getting really intense. You might not hear from me for a while.
Speaker 1:It was true, she didn't hear from you for a while.
Speaker 2:She didn't hear from her for a while. It was true, she didn't hear from you for a while.
Speaker 1:She didn't hear from me for a while, but she actually moved across the road. Oh no, is this in New Zealand? New?
Speaker 2:Zealand. This happened, and then she ended up moving across the road and I saw her at a party.
Speaker 1:Across the road to Australia.
Speaker 2:Well, she moved across the road from this house to Australia, oh my God, and I saw her and I said, hey, I was a dick, I'm really sorry and all my shame from that disappeared.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, yeah, that's really. I like that story. I really do like that because, um, the ghosting happens. It's constant In part of the ghosting happens all the time, but you never, ever get that clarity at the back end of being like the other person realized what they'd done, like they feel any guilt.
Speaker 2:you kind of just go away and be like, wow, they just don't care it's a horrible thing to do and if I gave you the full circumstances of the story, you would understand that I'm a really terrible person, but you are not a terrible person because you can reflect on the mistakes that you've made.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I like that. I like that you approached her. I think that's really nice and it did. Did it? Did it lift your shame? Yeah it did. Yeah, cause now you can tell that story happily on a podcast. Yeah, I can tell it. What's her name?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, no no no, no, yeah, I mean the the this, the shame spiral is like it can be the death of whole friendships Cause you do something wrong that you know. Like if I did something wrong to you, sammy, and I knew it was wrong, I would shy away from you and you would also be like I'm not reaching out to Andrew. He's a, he's a dickhead. It happens in dating all the time and it happens particularly with like ghostings. If you leave someone in a way that is not a polite way to leave them, if you let them bleed off or if you go some like cold or you block them. Even if you kind of come to your senses later, you move out of the bad mental ebb that you're in when you made that decision, or you grow as a person and realize that you would have enjoyed spending more time with them. At that stage you don't feel I mean I wouldn't feel confident. I've done this.
Speaker 2:When I was in London.
Speaker 1:I was notorious for like dating guys for like three weeks and then just like ghosting completely and I'd be interested in reaching out to them again. But I would be so ashamed of what I'd done that I wouldn't want to reach out to them.
Speaker 1:And on being on the other side of that, sometimes it would feel nice for the person to reach out and you'd be happy to forgive on the flip side and it happens with friendships as well that you'll have a bad interaction If you're not seeing someone commonly and regularly that you know your only link is to that person and you know they do something wrong on a night out or you do something wrong on a night out. The conversation is just going to die off because you're so scared of reaching out to them that they're going to come back and be like you were such a dickhead, you, you should be ashamed of it, yeah, but also you can be gaslit into shame.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100, I was just. I was just thinking about some relationships I've been and I'm like I should never felt bad for that. That was like not an inappropriate or bad behavior in any way.
Speaker 1:Well, this is, um, a great segue into some things you can do to prevent, because it would prevent things like that or prevent yourself from like shame spiraling. Yeah, um, like I've said a few times, shame is when you are embarrassed by acting out of accordance with your values. But, but what's very rare is that people are aware of what their values are, that you can name specifically your values. I talked about this on, I think, on the confidence episode. But giving yourself a purpose statement, going through the process of identifying your values and building them into some kind of statement that you work off, is really useful, because then you can pinpoint the moment that you stepped off your values, that you've moved to something else, and it gives you the added benefit of you being able to then identify clearly and verbally to the other person what you've done wrong, because generally that will that will fix any problem.
Speaker 1:But like shame spiral that you're feeling of separating yourself from someone. If you're able to talk with them about it and go I can see where I've gone wrong, like I can see what I've done wrong. It's not like you know. It's not who I am. I want to do better. Generally, the other person will be very receptive and open to that, and if you're being gaslit into thinking that you've done something wrong and you go hey, no, the way that I've acted is well in accordance with my values then you can be more confident in moving forward and probably breaking up with someone who's deliberately trying to shame you.
Speaker 1:Is there anything you've done to? I mean? Clearly, actually talking to the person is a good fix for the shame spiral.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What do you do when it's shame of like you know, of like an unfinished project, or like a personal and internal shame that's not related, an assignment that you're not doing, or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean like we talked about it briefly with music, but like that's not something that I feel like I get frustrated. I don't know if that's the same feeling if it comes from the shame rain cloud, but not really.
Speaker 2:I mean there's always been, uh, I mean with let's talk about my whole entire life and being absolutely 100 this has just come to me, but you know like sometimes we've tried to talk about this before, but sometimes these things don't come out until you're really thinking about it. Um, I think that, uh, my whole life has been a wonderful one thus far, but I've always felt that the pursuance of music and not necessarily being financially as financially successful as maybe I would have been if I pursued something else Brings me shame, because I feel like I don't know if this is a conscious thing on behalf of my parents, like they're probably not aware of this, but I feel like there's some moments where I feel like I'm constantly having to prove to them that I'm doing okay, often because it's asked a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that would cause a feeling. That's a parent maneuver.
Speaker 2:So I guess, like there have been times in my life maybe when I like had been struggling, I had been doing so well financially, where I felt like shameful because I'm sort of letting. But once again, like like you said, this is why I don't necessarily feel that way anymore. It only pops up sometimes with a reminder of something from family. Um, but it's not part of my values like this. This whole idea that, uh, people, the idea of what people have of you should be in their head is like I have my own idea of what I am and what I want to be and what I want to do. So why the hell would I feel shame for that? Yeah, but it still does rear up its ugly head sometimes.
Speaker 1:Of course, like the, and it's what I call a primordial. It's something that's built into you from like, day dot Like, and it's not deliberate. Your parents aren't sitting there trying to be like I'm going to cause you to be so stressed out in your life.
Speaker 1:No, they want the best for Exactly, and that's when they'll start asking all of these questions about how financially successful you are. The like churches all around the world are really big on this. I mean, it was a big thing of the Catholic church and like the early modern European period, that the control they had was through. Shame was going hey, this thing that you value, no, no, no, no, that's a sin um, because catholic priests obviously don't experience any shame.
Speaker 2:Oh my god. Shameless, I would say my god, um.
Speaker 1:But it's nice to hear that you, you know, you've, you've identified your values and you keep them at prominency. So these kinds of things that might cause shame in you before, don't rear up.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't call your parents gaslighting you but no, I know that's that was referencing to toxic relationships.
Speaker 2:I've been in my parents are the most amazing people in the world. That's, I think it's more an idea that I put in my own head, really, yeah, um. But also, like shame applies to food, which is probably the thing that I've had the most, um, sort of the biggest struggles with, particularly through covid, and I've talked about it really, really in depth, but like, for example, a lot of the time I was doing some form of dieting, be that whether it was like doing some form of, uh, carb starvation or just starvation through my fitness pal, and what these, um, what these things do is like you have to stick to a very, uh, tight regimen and what happens? Because you're not eating any food, you get really hungry and because, like all of these foods you haven't been able to have for such a long time, you would just like I would have one piece of chocolate and then I'd be like, oh, I fucked up, I might as well continue to fuck up, yeah, so it's now a cheat day.
Speaker 2:It's the exact same thing. It's a spiral, yeah. So that would usually result in just like the overconsumption of everything in sight, really, and then for other people can end up to purging yes, throwing up as well, which luckily I never experienced. But yeah, I would just eat so much I couldn't see.
Speaker 1:You're like now I'm satisfied.
Speaker 2:Now I feel awful, I feel really awful and too full.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it, like actually, yeah, yeah, the body shame stuff is, um, I mean I'm I'm not going to sit here and try to give advice on how to get over body shaming, because I've not. I think I've been, I like you, blessed with your life.
Speaker 1:I've been very blessed with my body I at no point have stressed, um, that it's well, I want it to be bigger, but it's. I'm never sitting there being like I'm ashamed. I'm not whipping myself on the back when it's not getting bigger. You know, I did used to when I was younger, as a light story. Um, I grew my leg hair out very quickly when I was young, when I went through puberty, it was like the first hairs to spring up and I was like mr tumness in um the line, the witch in the wardrobe, just like completely hairy legs, yeah exactly just these, like super hairy legs.
Speaker 1:And then this is a hairless upper body, all skinny from head to toe, and I was so, so embarrassed about my legs that I was like I need to get rid of this hair. How do I do it? And um, there was laser hair removal surgery, surgery I don't know what you call it treatment, thatment, little tiny doctors and their hair follicles with lasers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:That's real sci-fi. No treatment, I think, and I bought like a four pack of that which was expensive, but I was living at home and I had my big Donald's money, I was loaded, you know, but I was like what, 18 years old or something, and I went know, but I was like what, 18 years old or something, and I went, got it done once and it was the most incredibly painful thing in my fucking life.
Speaker 1:It was so awful because the thing is. The way it works is it kills the follicle by blasting this like heat wave, but it attracts onto dark things. So the darker your hairs and my hairs are dark and thick, the more heat that attracts to them and then just disperse them around the skin and I have.
Speaker 1:Obviously I'm tall, so there was like a lot of material to cover and they're not gonna stop area, yeah, so I basically like bit a bullet and just sat there gritting my teeth the whole time as they went up and down and it was so awful. And also, before you do it, you have to shave your legs completely, which I have such. I found at that time such a newfound respect for women who shave their legs regularly, because it is such a bitch of a job. There's so many little crevices in places and if you're not careful you nick yourself. But because you're doing these long sweeps, you do like a huge nick. That's like basically flaying yourself. Um, and I did that once and I was like that was hellish. And then my sister was like, oh well, it gets better the next time. And then I did it again and it was worse. And then I went. Do you know what? I think? I'm just gonna have to get over my leg hair worry.
Speaker 2:I don't understand why you didn't just veet it off well um, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I wanted to go the sci-fi route, the real expensive.
Speaker 1:Also, I want it to be fixed permanently because if you get laser hair removal for like six months, the hair grows, so thin and I didn't want no hairs on my legs, I just wanted, like a lot thinner hairs, which I realize now would have been disgusting, because the issue would have been then that I'd have a few very thick hairs growing out of my legs rather than like a lot of very thick hairs. You know, if it was like a few wispy hairs, that's fine, that looks okay. But, like, imagine just like a random patching of like real thick hairs on my legs, um, but at that moment and it was through, honestly, pain, um, which I don't recommend as a treatment, but it worked really well the pain of that treatment made my brain, it just rewired it and I was like you know what, I'm fine with it and now I love them. So, yeah, that's, that's that I've. When I first started working out, I got real, this real minor shame if I didn't have, like my protein in the day or if I wasn't eating my three meals. But, um, yeah, I've.
Speaker 1:I I say this a lot, but I'm very blessed that I started working out properly with you, especially after you'd gone through your whole transformation, because you made a very big effort not to impart any food problems onto me. You were very much like we're not touching food Like it's not an issue. You don't have to put any protein into yourself. We're just moving the body and getting the body nice and, as we like, transition in. We can maybe do a couple more things, but at no point have you ever been like here's a meal plan. No, which is great for me. Yeah, I'm such a well-adjusted bodybuilder. Yeah, look at you Now. If I could just fix the other parts of my life problem solved. So, yes, I would say getting a mission statement kind of for yourself, establishing values.
Speaker 1:Establishing values is a really good way.
Speaker 2:But like, yeah, I think like actually either having them written down or having them very clear in your head is important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can do what that awful guy did and put them as like your lock screen. But his values were like I'm going to have sex with 10 women a month and I'm going to earn $60,000 and all this kind of stuff oh my God. But having it nearby is actually really good. Even just having like one of those on Mac or Windows computers, you can make it like a little post-it on there and just putting that on there. Occasionally when you alt tab.
Speaker 1:You'll accidentally alt tab to it and be like oh yeah returning to it, often re-evaluating your values, because all of us can say you know ourselves, two years ago was an idiot dum-dum. Like you know, you never look favorably back at yourself, yeah, like.
Speaker 2:I was saying 18 to 25, I sucked all. Shame those years of my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's still in you. Yeah, it's still got that dog in me Still got that dog in you, but it is tough. I feel I feel for everyone with shame. You work through it. I still have it. I'm not again. I'm not coming on here. Imagine you still have it, but just try to act in accordance with your values and if you miss a step, know that that's what happens. Everyone does it. Everyone's always doing it.
Speaker 2:The world is full of shame. Thank you so much for listening to World. Basically, I didn't mean to end on such a sad note. I like it.
Speaker 1:It I should be more positive no, we've been positive the whole way through. Things are shit sometimes it's true they are.
Speaker 2:Um. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you want to find andrew, you can find him at the bareback investor. If you want to find me, you can find me at well, basicallyicallypodcom. It's a website where you can go. You can listen to the episodes if you would like. There's no shame on that website. No, it's a shame-free zone Shame-free. If you want to ask questions without shame, you can do them anonymously. Why is that so hard to say? I'm ashamed of how I just said anonymously. Pick a different word Secretly.
Speaker 2:Secret questions you can do it secretly on our website. It's a little thing. Go all the way down. You can fill it out. Don't try and sell us dog collars, okay. You can tell me a dog collar, but you've got to DM me for that. I want the spikes facing in. Well, basically, that's it.