Well...Basically
Well...Basically
183: Bulk Isn't Always Best
On this week's episode we sat down and had a chat about gymming, nutrition and body dismorphia.
"(Why) do you even lift?" in the Star Observer discusses the pipeline of men wanting to get fit who treat their bodies poorly to get the ideal rig. We discuss why muscles dont always mean healthy and how muscle dismorphia has affected us.
(Why) do you even lift? - https://www.starobserver.com.au/news/jacques-nieuwoudt-gay-male-beauty-gym-standards/232058
this is well, basically with your host, mike de silva, and sam weeks on today's episode.
Speaker 2:We sat down, had a chat about life, about gymming, nutrition uh, mikey has a tooth that's not there anymore and then we moved on to an article that Andrew brought to talk about. It was all to do with body dysmorphia. What is the magazine called, andrew? Tell me, star Observer. Star Observer, so it's written from, would you say, gay perspective. That's a fully gay magazine, it's always gay, it's always gay, it's always gay.
Speaker 3:They post a lot of pictures of Tom Daley.
Speaker 2:As news. We hope you enjoy today's episode. This is Well Basically, well Basically. A little uncomfortable after that which is something we're not going to talk about. No, I'm joking, I don't feel uncomfortable about that Disgusting. That's my body.
Speaker 1:I think the story about my abscess was more disgusting than that.
Speaker 2:That's true. Yeah, so, mikey, fill us in Mikey's head. Brain rot.
Speaker 1:You don't know what yeah, that's what I was worried about. I was like holy shit, my brain's going to be rotting away. It's going to eat through my jaw. What's the abscess? The second to last tooth at the back. Did you have to lose a tooth?
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it was going to happen anyway, Because I haven't been to the dentist in like 10 years, maybe 15.
Speaker 1:You'll be fine, I'd been putting this tooth off, which was going. It was going for four years.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, the tooth was squishy. Go see your dentist as a friendly reminder, please.
Speaker 1:Well, no, I found a friendly dentist which I am comfortable with, so I feel much better about my dental situation. I'm just going to get heaps and heaps of implants, extra ones. I'm going to get double these. You're going to be like a shark.
Speaker 2:One tooth falls out and then another tooth rolls up from behind it.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get a couple of rows, maybe some extra large two front teeth as well, just for good measure.
Speaker 3:Give me the details for the friendly dentist, because I'm too scared to go, because I don't want them to look in their mouth and be like you haven't been for 15 fucking years, you dipshit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's very nice there at the cross. Oh, it's a woman.
Speaker 2:I love a woman oh, we've got a really good dentist. It's an avant-garde dentist down there oh nice yeah, she's really good. Can you fiddle my? Is that I'll fiddle with your hole. How's that feel? Does it feel good?
Speaker 1:oh, fellas, is that better? It's the most hole fiddling I've had in a while. Thank you, oh okay, oh yeah. So I'm feeling better now let's round that story up.
Speaker 2:That's great. Yeah, mikey was a sick, sick boy last week. Any updates for you, andrew? Anything, any goings on?
Speaker 3:Nothing too serious. I ran into a childhood friend of mine today with no plan. It was so strange. So I was childhood friend of mine today, just like with no plan. It was so strange so I was going on a site visit.
Speaker 3:We were going to go watch students do their final presentation at primary school child at, not where. Yeah, it was primary school, primary school best friends up until like maybe year three. I don't know what happened. I don't think there was a falling out. You know, it's just friendships like that are very material apart. Yeah, exactly, yeah, we went on different tracks.
Speaker 3:Um, so I was going to go do the site visit and we're watching student presentations, and part of the student presentations is we get a panel of judges from the organization that we're partnered with for this course to like give them feedback, and I saw a name on there that I was like it's a very common name. So I was like that's whoa. Blast from the past, I remember that person, not thinking it was actually this person. And when I rocked up and it was him, I was like Whoa, your name, I'm not going to say it on here, I'll have to bleep it. Um, I was like Whoa, your name, that's wild. And he was like oh, andrew, it's so good to see you. And so we were chatting and we had a good time.
Speaker 3:And then we went into the presentations and then we got to like the midpoint and I was like oh, what are you up the writer? And he was like, yeah, and so we were chatting about that. And then he's like, oh, I've actually not read any of his books. And I was like, oh, that's I mean strange, whatever. Um, but you know, he was like, oh, the old man in the sea. He was like naming the books and I was like, yeah, the books are really good. I love ernest hemingway's writing.
Speaker 3:I and in this moment I'd like forgotten completely that we were talking about a kid was named after this guy. I just like separated to my head. I was like now I'm talking about ernest hemingway. I was like, oh yeah, he's a really good writer. Like incredibly sexist and racist, and like he just like hunts big game all the time and it's like wiping out whole animals. It was like, if you can get over that, he's incredibly good. And he was like, oh yeah, he seemed a bit taken aback and I was like completely oblivious to the fact that I had just like, shit, talk to this guy's kid's name to his face, not even a minute after he told it to me, and it wasn't until afterwards that I was like, texting my sister, being like, oh, this guy from the past.
Speaker 3:I ran into him but I was like I've made such a dick of myself, like that's such an embarrassing thing to do, to be like, oh yeah, you're racist kid.
Speaker 1:Kids names are yeah, you got to watch them. They're a minefield, absolutely. Oh, I don't know what happened I thought my friends were joking when they said what they named their child and then it turns out they weren't Say the name, say it, say it. But my other two, friends named their daughter Lola, that's cute.
Speaker 3:I like that. Yeah, it's very cute. Have you seen Run Lola Run Good?
Speaker 1:movie, but they got that from the Lou Reed. Oh yeah, it wasn't like in the song, she was a bit of a derelict, yeah that's good.
Speaker 2:It's a low bar. I think that's what you want to do?
Speaker 3:What's the Lou Reed thing?
Speaker 1:It's a song. It's a song, yeah.
Speaker 3:Lola, you can't spell love without L-O. You can't spell lava without L-A, lola, you can't spell lava without L-A. Lola, you can't spell L-O-L-A, o-l-a without O-L-L-A.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're close. Are you close? Yeah, that's really much it. Yeah, that's exactly it. The reader's rolling. Is he dead? No, he's still gone. He might be alive, I don't really know.
Speaker 3:How about you, sammy? How's no Vaping going? Really know how about you, sammy? Um, how's no vaping going? It's great. I love chewing gum. I love it. It's my favorite. I love that gum.
Speaker 2:You got some in your mouth right now? I do, but I'm trying not to chew, you see that's very good. That would be bad for the people listening. And now, if I do chew, they're gonna know that I'm chewing, so I can't chew for the remainder of the podcast I could chew. Do you like a juicy? Juicy fruit still exists?
Speaker 3:I think yeah I used to have a pack of juicy fruit that was a fake juicy fruit when you pulled it oh yeah, it snaps your finger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but like a cockroach would be on top and snap on your finger people would go um, I was saying to andrew when he came for the session that I've been very tired all week and we me and chloe actually had the quietest weekend I think we've ever had in the history of weekends and I felt worse. So the moral of the story, is just don't slow down ever, don't let life ever catch up with you, and then it'll all be fine.
Speaker 3:That's really healthy. I think that's a really healthy way to look at life. Never turn around, never contemplate.
Speaker 2:I spoke to mum about this and she's like your dad's exactly the same. I was like, yeah, so I should never slow down. And she told me, yeah, true, you shouldn't.
Speaker 3:And your dad's beautiful so yeah, exactly. Maybe he's got the right of it. He does have the right. I mean, what's? I don't look at the big picture. The big picture is always ugly. The little picture yeah, it's all about the little things you know it's delicate brushstrokes and then the big picture is like a horse that's been beheaded have you seen the godfather?
Speaker 2:I know there's that's famous scene with the horse beheaded in the bed. You should watch the godfather, it's a good little scene.
Speaker 3:That movie's actually full of little things. I only watch sequels to films, so I only watch Godfather 2.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, it's Madonna. Spoiler alert. Yeah, this is a good album. I've been listening to this album all week. I'm obsessed. Very good, better than Brat Sorry. Welcome, welcome, welcome, episode number 19. 183. Oh my God, why do I keep thinking we've done more than we have we can?
Speaker 3:say it's 190. We can say it's any episode we want. Sorry, we lost seven episodes, yeah, sorry.
Speaker 2:I've actually done that, though, and like published it, so maybe that joke's gone too far already. We can't do that again. Andrew's here, mikey's here, I'm here, and we're here to talk about some stuff and things. Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is the great Madonna, the late great. She's not. She's alive, yeah, but look at her. Don't say that she can do what she wants.
Speaker 1:Is this 98?
Speaker 2:It is Spot on. Shout out to first-time listeners, second-time listeners third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, you guys who are listening to the 10th episode great job. You clearly love how we talk and we love that you like that and we love that you listen. Mwah, Kiss, kiss, kiss, hug, hug, hug. Special shout-outs. To what job are we shouting out today?
Speaker 3:Oh, the people at the Olympics have to just stand next to the marathon track with their hands behind their back.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Shout out to whatever that job's called. I'm sure they all listen to the podcast.
Speaker 1:Oh, 100%. It's the biggest demographic, yeah.
Speaker 2:Have you guys been watching much Olympics?
Speaker 3:A surprising amount. I really didn't think I'd get into it, but my classmates have it on at night and it is so fascinating learning how just random sports work, like dressage oh yeah, I couldn't watch that horses doing funny dances.
Speaker 2:I bet annabelle loves that oh my god.
Speaker 3:It's so funny, though, and it's so crazy like this, and also I'll be like that. Horse dancing is amazing and bell will be like they know nothing.
Speaker 2:That's a very horsey sound she made.
Speaker 3:She'll be like no, they know nothing. She used to work at the racetrack.
Speaker 1:Have we discussed hobby horsing? I'd watch that. Oh yeah, I'd watch that. What the hell was that?
Speaker 3:It's where people get onto a broom handle with a horse head stuck onto it.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I have seen that. I have seen that.
Speaker 3:No, that into the Olympics, oh my God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean they're pretty much letting anything in there now.
Speaker 1:So I guess, cause you want to want, you want to know what's going on mentally with a hobby horse. Oh my God, when?
Speaker 3:we can get, like when Neuralink can give the thoughts out into the world, I think hobby horsing will become a really big sport because people are just going to want to listen to the thoughts of someone being like I'm free I reckon they would be taking that seriously. Look at their faces when they do it.
Speaker 1:They are locked in and I'll round the jump, increase speed Off the left foot and, yes, I landed it.
Speaker 2:Do you think they try and feed their horses carrots?
Speaker 1:I don't know, but now I want to be a commentator for hobby horse.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's probably a good gig. I bet it pays real well the commentators are always hilarious.
Speaker 3:Like for the olympics. They're like hilariously appropriate voices. So like the horse ing, what all the different horse sports they have this one old, obviously very rich sounding british lady. He's always like oh, what a lovely moon on beach.
Speaker 2:Do they have a horse on the panel?
Speaker 3:It's freaking out it's fucking in the storm. And then we're watching the skateboarding and they have this typical Californian lady that's like whoa, look at this sick rip on the curl. It's so funny, it is hilarious. It's so funny we're watching the triathlon. We couldn't work out how long they ran for. And then it so funny, it is hilarious, it's so funny. We're watching the triathlon.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, we couldn't work out how long they ran for, and then it was 10 kilometers. There was no interesting bite to that story, except for the fact that I did not know that they had to do all of that shit and then run 10 kilometers.
Speaker 2:It's so amazing. Hey, there are so many sports that people are really good at. That's what I think we watching lots of diving. That's probably the thing I've watched the most. That's hot. It is synchronized diving. That's a crazy sport. Like how do you even go?
Speaker 3:I'm gonna jump into the water while doing heaps of tricks with another person in time and time much yeah they were watching them and I always thought they had like some weird system of how they would sync themselves up. And then, for some reason, the canadian guys you could hear really clearly how they sync themselves up and and it was just one guy going are you ready?
Speaker 2:Three, two one, and then they just did it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they have like a light or something like that. It was just a dude standing next to his friend being like oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:It's something I'm totally lost on right, like how do you even know how to do that in the air, let alone communicate what you guys are going to do in tandem?
Speaker 3:Well, they know what they're going to do before they get up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, obviously, but like deciding, like when they decide what the trick they're going to do is, or when you're learning a trick, how do you even explain? Well, they have names.
Speaker 3:I mean they have names In the dressage like the horses moving specifically they'd be like moving their feet and they would have like a name like a fly or something like that. It would just have its own space. So it would just be like oh, that's a backhanded under tuck. Yeah, I guess so Maybe we should take that on. Let's see if we can become really good.
Speaker 2:Imagine that Become really good synchronized divers, Well, basically synchronized diving course.
Speaker 1:I can't swim so I'll do one dive.
Speaker 3:Can you swim?
Speaker 1:I don't believe that I mean, I can say a float.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's a great idea. So you don't have to swim, you just get a horrific injury on land.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice, only if the woman from great british bake off is doing our commentary absolutely.
Speaker 2:I take that magda shabansky um, well, actually this week, uh, I mean, I talked about it last week with you, andrew, uh, and I was saying, mikey, you went here for this conversation, but it'd be good if you were, because I weighed myself, because I've been going out lots. I said this in the podcast last week.
Speaker 3:Did you listen to the podcast last week, Mikey? I don't know what day it is.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I'm on the podcast. What answer?
Speaker 3:were you expecting, Andrew? I thought, yeah, I love listening to you too. You're the highlight of my week.
Speaker 1:Why I listen to you when I'm here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true, and basically I think I'm eating more food than I ever have, right, but I've also been going out clubbing and dancing for like six hours at a time almost every weekend. So I put my Fitbit on, I've taken it off again, um, but I was getting like 20 000 steps for the following day before anything and I've I jumped on the scales and I'm like close to the weight again that I was when I was really fucking bad with my food and all that stuff. Yeah, um, so I've been thinking about that a bit, um, which has been playing on my mind. I'm like I'm actually like I my relationship with food is totally fine and my relationship with exercise at the moment is totally fine, so I don't think this is a problem. This is kind of what my body's doing in reaction to what the exercise that I'm doing.
Speaker 2:You could set point, maybe a little bit on the leaner side, yeah, and then today no, yesterday I was teaching a class and then this woman she's really lovely, I love it she comes up to me, she goes, you could do with eating a few pizzas. Oh my God. No, she's really nice, like, it's that classic, like it's, it's.
Speaker 3:It's sort of like something my, your mom would say to you.
Speaker 2:You know, well-meaning, well-meaning, misguided misguided, yeah, and, and I was like, oh great, I just sort of stopped thinking about this, and now I'm thinking about it again why don't you say, why don't you share some of yours you've got?
Speaker 1:well, speaking of mothers, um, because I sit in an office with um, with the sales guys now, and so I overhear conversations. Well, I inserted myself into this conversation and and a woman brought her daughter in. We're close to a private school and I can't remember what the remark was, but basically she had a holder and she apparently made reference to her needing to be at this gym.
Speaker 3:The mother made reference to the daughter needing to be at the gym. Yeah, immediately. Oh gosh Jesus, did you step in this gym?
Speaker 1:oh, the mother made reference to the daughter needing to be at the gym.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, immediately, oh gosh jesus, you step in yeah I took my chair out, I took my office chair out there and just hurled it across the desk.
Speaker 1:That's so tough to hear.
Speaker 3:It really is, because you can see the slowest train wreck happening ever. When that's something that happens like, you know that that is not. That's the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 2:If she's so comfortable in public saying that to her daughter, like, imagine the awful stuff she's saying at home also not to mention like I mean, this is, this is such a thing, but you, that is like how you, if you want, if you want to encourage your child to exercise, saying shit like that is not going to get them keen for exercising, like that is just not the way to do it at all, they're either going to not want to go to the gym or hate themselves even more. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, either way, they're going to hate themselves. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Terrible, terrible, if you want to get your large kid exercising, all you have to do is tie a donut to a string. Yeah, if you want to get your large kid exercising, all you have to do is tie a donut to a string and then just dangle it over their face while sitting on their shoulders.
Speaker 1:I mean encouragingly. Everyone in the office was outraged. Okay, because I sit with like a PT manager and the sales team.
Speaker 2:No, like what the hell. What the hell, because I'm not this woman.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's bad.
Speaker 2:I was very lucky, like my parents when I was younger like encouraged me to do exercise and I was like quite like not into it because they were pushing me to do exercise, but then all of the sort of um people I had teaching me were were great so yeah but I did not fucking want to exercise for the longest time like mom and dad be, like we're going to see the pt this morning and it woke me up at six and I was like 16.
Speaker 2:I was like get away from me, that's also a terrible way to do it.
Speaker 3:Why would you get your? You got to meet kids where they're at, and a 16 year old is never at 6am ever.
Speaker 2:No, no, definitely not. I did go a couple of times Begrudgingly. Very begrudgingly, we have a topic today. We do, we've actually got an article. We read a little article.
Speaker 3:We're actually learned, fellows.
Speaker 2:It's true, we read stuff sometimes Because we think it would be interesting for you guys to hear.
Speaker 3:This was posted in the Star Observer, which is like Sydney's gay Media Outlet. It's like their newspaper, our newspaper I'm gay. It's by a gentleman, our newspaper I'm gay, I've never heard of it, it's by a gentleman called Jacques I can't pronounce his last name, you would, you would. And the article is called why Do you Even Lift, and the why is in parentheses. Isn't that funny, like do you even lift? Why do you even lift? I see what you did there Went over my head.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, it's gone now. Um. So, uh, jacques, it's a very long article about the the nuts and bolts of it. Uh, um, jacques used to be quite large and he wrote about how he started going to the gym and he met with a pt and the pt uh was basically the first thing he said was let's get you massive. And his, he had stars in his eyes after that and he wanted to just like go to the gym constantly. Um, and the first part of the article really hammers in that, uh, the pt never warned him about the mental strain of, like getting yourself bigger. What happens when you change your body shape and you're not, like aware of what's going on, and that, um, being really big and strong does not mean that you're really healthy yeah, healthy, yeah, that's it, the other side of fitness.
Speaker 3:We never discuss how massive and healthy are not the same thing, nor that gay men and bodybuilders are two of the highest risk groups for developing muscle dysmorphia.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that about gay men in particular. That's super interesting Because we hate ourselves. They're awful. You guys really do hate yourselves.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I mean that's an interesting starting point. I've said a lot of times on the podcast I'm not really going to be able to weigh in too much about going to the gym and having a PT like mentally fuck me, because I had Sam from the get-go and he's very caring and making sure that, like everything's bled in nicely to each other, that exercise becomes a portion or part of your life rather than it being your life, and I think you're big on getting into me that going to the gym is not a hobby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not. It's not like an outlet for creativity. Unless you're multitasking and painting at the same time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah you put the paintbrush on the end of your barbell and you try to paint.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:But you two might be able to talk a little bit about this because you've worked in the fitness industry for a lot. There is an issue, I think, with people going into the gym and them saying let's get you on a meal plan and let's get you working out and everything's going to be good.
Speaker 2:This is the golden ticket we've got for you right now. There's well I mean, pts, for the most part aren't really qualified to deal with like even there's no. When I went through my training, there was no talk of that side of it. It was basically like we're going to teach you how to program, how to get people big or how to put on muscles. Usually it was the focus in school and then that was basically it, and we learned about different training formats. The mental aspect like this might've changed now, but like that side of things was never, ever touched. We talked, we talked about how to set people up on MyFitnessPal or whatever, which is pretty insane and it's wild to do at the beginning as well.
Speaker 1:So log in that food. What I remember is we talked briefly about eating disorders momentarily, did you? Yeah, but it was in a way that an eating disorder or issues with with that sort of stuff happened separately, like it was. Like it was framed in a way that it was like these are outside issues bought into the gym rather than the gym environment and fitness culture.
Speaker 3:Oh, like a client that's coming in with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah rather than rather than the industry being possibly contributing to the problem. So it was a very, it was a one-dimensional look at it and then obviously, as I just mentioned, like it just furthers that the industry only talks of stuff as being only good, it's only good, not so much anymore, obviously. But yeah, I always go to say only good, it's only good, not so much anymore, obviously. But I always get to say, growing up, it's growing up.
Speaker 3:It's still growing up now. Anyway, it's interesting because that seems to be how the writer was taken by this whole experience.
Speaker 2:You had a PT for a while, Mikey. Did you have any problematic?
Speaker 1:personal trainers no he was pretty good. Actually I didn't either.
Speaker 2:I've never had any problematic stuff yeah, I had um, it's all me. I do it to myself.
Speaker 1:I had two and we we would do um, like it was all technique stuff yeah um, and then the gymnastics coach was all technique stuff as well.
Speaker 2:So so that was technique stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, it was like uh, you were gymnastics, you'd learning learning, learning.
Speaker 3:Oh, I see, yeah, yeah. So Chuck goes on. Uh, they went to university. They kept going to the gym. Their brain started to focus, hyper-focus, on muscle. That they were only attracted to people with like, um, that they were only attracted to people with like what does he say, mr Olympia body? That he was no longer attracted to people with normal. And then he goes on to say that the, the homogenous hotties of the Sydney gay scene didn't help, that it seemed like there was this click of very attractive men that had the same body type these big, broad shoulders, these washboard abs. It's like perfectly tanned, excellent body.
Speaker 2:And they will maintain facial hair as well. Yes, I've seen that. I've seen it.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I take a lot of time on that. Yeah, there's no drug you can take for that either. No, and that he saw that as like the exclusive gay community. And there was, no, there was no easy way in except for hyper. What's hyper muscle building, hyper, hyper training? Yeah, that's exactly it. And so he got this even more like strong pull towards wanting more muscle, and so he started looking into um tremble, tremble on tremble on steroid.
Speaker 3:Yeah, one of the worst ones you can take with the paragraph is he googles tremble owned for a second time, so he's obviously looked it up before. Uh, I'm scared. Scared because this time the long list of side effects, like neurotoxicity and advanced brain aging among them, don't scare him that the second time when he's looking at them he's like, maybe, maybe, this is right there's a long list of other things that it does.
Speaker 2:Like you often wake up with night sweats. You sleep like shit. Um. You also like there's lots of reports of your um your sex drive like either changing. Like you're like what you become attracted to and the things you become attracted like it really can fuck you up that stuff that's good, I become straight, maybe, maybe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's give me some tremble lines, right a vibe, I'll have a neurotoxicity, advanced brain aging, but I'll be straight and hot you might become really attracted to those horses.
Speaker 1:The hobby horses Margaret on a hobby horse Rounding the bend on chestnuts.
Speaker 3:This is, I think, a real thing. There's a big part in this article where he talks about how there's this whole layer to building muscle that gay men have. That I just don't really touch on straight men. Straight men can obviously get muscle dysmorphia. There's no denying that at all.
Speaker 3:At the gym and not knowing whether you're jealous or attracted to them or want to be them or want to be with them, that there's this like much bigger, like meld in the brain when you're looking at your person in the mirror being like am I attracted? And it doubled down even more if your type is not the person that you are, you know. So you start going to the gym and start working out and you start getting big and muscly. But if you you're into like lithe little boys, maybe that's a wrap, maybe a twink, maybe a twink, an adult 21 plus twink, that's what you're attracted to. You're going to look at this person in the mirror and you're going to be like, oh, I've got all this extra muscle but I'm still not attracted to him. It's not, I'm not attractive. It's like I to him. Um, I found when I started going to the gym I am my type, I'm very much my type, and so I'm very I liked the person that I saw myself.
Speaker 3:I thought you liked short little kings. I like short kings too. Yeah, okay, but I just in my house I have one of the fun house mirrors that makes you look like a little squat short king oh okay, I look so squat and muscly all the time, um, so I really like the process of seeing myself like get more attractive to me.
Speaker 3:But I do see this like. I look around at other men and I'm like I don't know if I just like want that body or if I want to like be in that body I speculatively also think that some of it is like trying to be this idea of what it is to be masculine and trying to reject like this any type of femininity that you get brushed with growing up. I yeah. I think it's a real good look into it.
Speaker 2:That is interesting, it's like hyper-masculization.
Speaker 3:Masculization of the body is like a way to outwardly show everyone that you're like don't beat me up.
Speaker 1:I'm actually not a fag. It's a way of getting yeah, making it easier to get through the world. I like that, but what makes it hard for them to get through the world is that they're awful. What are?
Speaker 3:What games these people? I don't want to cast aspersions either, but they do say, oh, I've Googled Tremble.
Speaker 2:I and I did so much research into Tremble-O.
Speaker 3:But at no point did they say they did not take it. They were just like, oh, it's really appealing to me.
Speaker 2:Next part of the story. Well, I mean, they wrote an article, so maybe they're okay in the brain, maybe that's not one of the side effects they experienced, or maybe they didn't take Tremble-O, maybe they just did um, so yeah, that's, that's the next part.
Speaker 3:The they go on a little bit more uh about their successes in this and how they really liked people finding them really hot, which I've found as well. People being like your muscles are so big, I'm always like no, stop it. But inside I'm like, go on, give me some more. Layer it on me, um, uh. And, to be fair, jacques has gone through an incredible transformation. I've got a picture in this article If you look it up.
Speaker 3:I'm going to put the link into the episode, but it's a great body They've done really well, he said that straight girls started calling him like Clark Kent or Superman, which I can see and then the article goes into this weird diatribe, uh, where he talks about he started seeing someone and then he just starts like waxing lyrical about how much?
Speaker 3:how much he likes this boy, um, for like three or four paragraphs it's like um maybe, maybe it's an ode or a love letter to a partner chestnut yeah, I think that's part of it when I was in this is such a weird story when I was in um high school, uh this, before I was out of the closet, I started chatting with a guy. I was like probably 14 15 years old. There's a bit of a racy story 14, 15 years old, I started chatting with a guy online, um, and, like I was enamored immediately, even though I'd like never met this guy before, because it was like my first look at this world that I kind of wanted to be and it was like dating a guy. It was very exciting. Yeah, he lived kind of in the area. I think he was like 20. Um, this is all very pedophilic, um what I? I look back now. I was like this guy was a predator, uh, but he was like he wanted. I met up with him uh once for like a movie and then I never saw him again. He started telling me about how he got like cancer in his ear. It was very intense for a 14 year old.
Speaker 3:But and part of this that relates back to here is I had this like dinky, shitty blog that I would write uh in and as like a love letter to this guy, I wrote this blog where I tried to do almost an acrostic. So the paragraph wrote out like a secret message to him along the left hand side. That's so romantic. It is very romantic. I didn't realize because I again, I was a stupid 14 year old that different web pages have different spacing, so the words just got messed up. But it meant that I wrote this really low quality thing that I put. I mean, they're all low quality, but this was even particularly low quality because I tried to write a fucking acrostic poem throughout the entire article um, uh, and then and he got a sudoku and I sent it over to him.
Speaker 3:I don't as you can, I don't want to say that's what this is, but it feels like he's like enamored with this guy and he's like I'm gonna include him in this article, I'm gonna post it around sydney.
Speaker 3:Um, the way he frames it is he starts going to the gym with this guy and this guy gets also wants to start getting really big, and Jacques is like worried that this guy's going to go through the same kind of pits he went through with wanting to get really big, and this is like obsession with it and it's really unhealthy relationship to it. And I think he's using this as like a cipher of I kind of want to tell myself when I was young not to, but he can't tell himself when he was young not can't tell himself when he was young not to, because at the end of the article he's like overall, I actually love the fact that I've got my body massive and hot. Yeah, which is so true. It's like people are always like, oh, I went through the worst body dysmorphia, but you know for this gorgeous rig, but look at me now, yeah.
Speaker 3:This gorgeous rig. It's yeah, yeah, to be like. Oh, I don't, I wouldn't want to put anyone else through the difficulties but actually I'm so thrilled with how hot I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm thrilled with the results, yeah and don't do it yourself, but it is great um, anyway, it was a good.
Speaker 3:I thought it was a really good article. I thought it was a really nice way of looking into it. I like that. It's like the gay parts weaved into there, but also it's not the main and only focus that. When you start going to the gym, I mean, I still look at myself and see a kind of skinny-ish guy, um uh, in the mirror. That's why you two say no, andrew, you are so big we can't, we can't do that, but I do.
Speaker 3:I look at the mirror and I still see because, for you know, 28 years of my life, I was r thin all the time. So when I look at myself in the mirror now, I'm like, oh, you know, I'm still the skinny boy. I've just like put on a little bit of muscle.
Speaker 1:This is interesting to point out though. Yeah, because sometimes it gets a bit awkward because people want you to comment on their bodies, not necessarily saying you.
Speaker 3:Oh, I do, I always do.
Speaker 1:But because I don't like there awkward silence, you know, when someone wants validation, yeah, I'm like I'm just part gonna be part of the problem if I validate what you want me to say or you want to hear right now and I just don't say anything yeah, that's good of you, and also I'm telling you now validate away for me? Yeah, he loves it I'm gonna actually I'm gonna invalidate you you're like you rank piece of shit where. Where's Andrew today? He's not even here.
Speaker 2:It's like a little slice of like that. That's sort of what we just covered about him like discouraging someone from you know doing what he has done, like I sort of see a little bit of myself in there and where I'm like I still I don't know, like I obviously I think it's about growing and sort of learning to deal with all these things that you've sort of picked up on along the way, be that like how you feel about your body and all these bad habits and this negative talk and like being really obsessed with the gym. But it's an opportunity to, you know, encourage going to the gym but having the knowledge that you know giving it to people in a way that's appropriate and like which is actually is going to like help, which I think is what exactly.
Speaker 2:What you did with me, yeah, exactly. What I try to do with everyone, but I still have like little hangups all the time. But it's like going like that's fucked, shut up idiot.
Speaker 3:Shut up brain, yeah.
Speaker 2:You're dumb, you're dumb, you dumb, you're stupid anyway, go eat two pizzas.
Speaker 3:Oh no, I feel like pizza. Yeah, I could smash a pizza nachos, I reckon I really like that article.
Speaker 2:Do they like? Is that it was?
Speaker 3:it was he's very he kind of like wraps up at the end saying he's gonna step away in a way almost, I think, like it's like yeah, he said um, I do know one thing taking a step back and examining my drives has allowed me to reclaim my autonomy, so he's not stepping away from going to the gym he mentions in here and he uses this long metaphor which I think is really good about it being like a long-term relationship and that when you're in a long-term relationship, you're always trying to find the balance, like sometimes it gets really bad and you're always thinking that over the in time it's going to become quite nice, but it takes a lot of work in that relationship with the gym so he says I'm examining my drives has allowed me to reclaim my autonomy.
Speaker 3:It's allowed me to invest a bit more into the parts of me that will actually outlive my remaining 10 years of beauty.
Speaker 2:You're going to be beautiful forever. What are you talking about? The second, I'm not beautiful, that's.
Speaker 3:I'm just going to bury myself, don't.
Speaker 2:Don't.
Speaker 3:Just don't say that. I'll hold the funeral and it'll be open casket, but I'll be fully alive and I'll just snap it shut like a clam and then push me into the ground.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, what a horrific way to go.
Speaker 3:This is why you got to keep validating me. Oh pipe down broomstick.
Speaker 2:News. Wow, great article. Thank you so much for listening to Well Basically. If you want to find Andrew, you can find him at the Bareback Investor. If you want to find Mikey, you can find him at Well Basically, mikey. If you want to find me, you can find me at Well Basically, sam. If you want to find the podcast, it is at Well Basically Podcast. The website is wwwwellbasicallypodcom. Or if you're feeling horny, just go to Pornhub, you know.
Speaker 3:We're on there too, are you?
Speaker 1:I'm not. Should we go on there, or it'll just be a massive anticlimax because we'll just be sitting here eating protein cookies, is that?
Speaker 2:going to be the next episode. We're just going to sit here and watch porn together.
Speaker 1:Yeah no, I'm. Or watch the Olympics and pretend that you're watching a porn have they done a pornographic Olympic movie.
Speaker 2:Surely there's something like that.
Speaker 3:We're going to find out. We're not being Svetlana in this episode. She's run out.
Speaker 1:It features the woman from the dressage commentary.
Speaker 2:Oh, my god, I love, that, no, bestiality, no, she's doing the commentary.
Speaker 3:That's a perfect joke right there, oh my god. I love that she's doing the commentary. No, bestiality, perfect. No, she's doing the commentary. That's a perfect stroke right there, oh my word.
Speaker 1:The pacing is excellent, and here comes Jess not round the bend.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, nice porn, but guys loved it. Bye, well, basically that's it.