Revolutionizing Power Delivery: The Class 4 Revolution

Fault Managed Power Systems represent a revolutionary approach to power delivery that bridges the gap between traditional electrical distribution and low-voltage cabling infrastructure. This Class 4 technology enables sending up to 450 volts through cables installed like structured cabling while maintaining safety through millisecond fault detection.

• Class 4 FMP systems offer higher voltage (up to 450V) but are still safely installed like low-voltage cabling
• FMP is considered "energy-limited circuits" that shut down within milliseconds if a fault is detected
• Installation savings can reach 40% on labor and 50% on materials by eliminating conduit requirements
• Applications include enterprise networks, security systems, lighting, and outdoor equipment
• Centralized UPS backup becomes possible for equipment up to 2km away
• The Fault Managed Power Alliance brings together industry leaders to educate and develop standards
• Cable is identifiable by "CL4" marking and can be installed in the same pathways as structured cabling
• Installation can be performed by properly trained low-voltage or electrical contractors depending on state regulations
• FMP serves as the "trunk" power system while PoE acts as the "branches" to end devices

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Fault Managed Power
• 5:27 Understanding Class 4 Energy Limited Circuits
• 10:35 Applications and FMP Benefits
• 16:12 Installation and Code Considerations
• 28:58 FMP Alliance and Industry Adoption
• 34:34 Future Applications and Trending Forward
• 42:45 Resources and Getting Started

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey Wiremonkeys, welcome to another episode of let's Talk Cabling. This episode, we're talking about fault managed power systems. Welcome to the show where we tackle the tough questions submitted by installers, estimators, project managers, designers, customers, even IT personnel. We're connecting at the human level so that we can connect the world. If you're watching this show on YouTube and you like this content, would you hit the bell button and the subscribe button to be notified when new content is being produced button and the subscribe button to be notified when new content is being produced? If you're listening to us on one of the audio podcast platforms, would you mind giving us a five-star rating? And if we're not a five-star rating, let me know what I need to do to make this a five-star rated show? And Wednesday night, 6 pm Eastern Standard Time, what are you doing? You know I do a live stream on TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, anywhere that they'll let me broadcast to, where you get to ask your favorite RCDD questions about installation, design, certification, project management. I even do career path questions, but I can hear you now. But, Joker, what's the notice? I'm driving my truck, I don't want to get in an accident. Okay, I record them and you can watch them at your convenience. And finally, while this show is free and will always remain free, and you find value in this content, will you click on that QR code right there? You can buy me a cup of coffee. You can even schedule a 15-minute one-on-one call with me after hours, of course.

Speaker 1: 1:42

So, fault-managed power systems that's the buzzword nowadays. I'm telling you, if you're not looking into this, if you're not looking to get into this, you're going to get left behind. You truly are. It's the Ethernet of the late 80s. A lot of people don't understand what it is. What is it? How's it going to benefit us? Where is this going? What hurdles is it crossing? And these are all questions that I plan on discussing with my two guests today. So one of the guests you might recognize and the other one is going to be a brand new guest. So I've got Mo and I've got Todd with us. Welcome, gentlemen, to the let's Talk Cabling podcast. How are you guys doing?

Speaker 3: 2:20

Lovely, thank you.

Speaker 1: 2:23

Thanks for having me back. Yeah, don't sound too excited, Todd. Well, no, you know what?

Speaker 3: 2:28

I thought I was still banned from your show, remember the last one we did, so I was shocked when you invited me back. But no, it is fantastic to be back with you, chuck, so I really do appreciate the opportunity.

Speaker 1: 2:43

Well, let's just take 90 seconds and let each of you guys introduce yourselves. We'll start off with you, Mr Todd.

Speaker 3: 2:50

So Todd Morse, currently with Unique Foley, we are manufacturer representatives and one of the things that we represent is Panduit, and everyone out there knows that Panduit has your patch panels and your face plates and your jacks. But what they don't know is we have racks and cabinets and fiber runway and PDUs and UPSs and we have our fault managed power system. So you know, we got Mahmood here today. I don't even know enough about it to make me dangerous, so I had to call out for help. So anyway, thank you very much, Chuck. I appreciate the opportunity for the introduction.

Speaker 1: 3:31

My pleasure, Mahoud. Why don't you give us the 90-second overview of you?

Speaker 4: 3:36

Sure, chuck. First, thanks for having me. My full name is Mahoud Ibrahim and yes, you can call me Mahoud, it makes it easier. I know my name is a mouthful, but I've been with Pandu for about 13 years. My background is in mechanical engineering, did a lot of work on research for data center efficiency of cooling et cetera, and somehow found my way into electricity but safe electricity this time. So I've been running internally a program for Pandu for this new product, fault Managed Power. It's a new product line. It's been launched for about a year and a half and I'm very excited to be here to kind of talk to you about it and talk to your audience as well.

Speaker 1: 4:12

Yeah, it's one of those things that I keep sounding the horn that it's coming. I'm the Paul Revere of Fault Managed Power. It's coming, it's coming, it's coming. And people keep looking at me like deer in the head, like what is it? It's electricity. I don't care, I'm like dude. If you don't embrace this, if you don't learn about this, you're going to get left behind. You're going to miss out on opportunities to make money, right? So let's go ahead and start off with what is fault-managed power systems and how is it different from a traditional power delivery method like Class 2?

Speaker 4: 4:49

Sure, great start. So fault-managed power systems are today recognized under the National Electrical Code as an entirely new classification of power called Class 4. And essentially what these systems can do is they can push higher voltage. So if you look in the context of a class two circuit, they're limited to a hundred volts and 60 Watts and they're known as power limited circuits. The whole point behind doing that for class two is make it safe for low voltage installations. So you don't, you know, like the PUE cable or category cable, you don't have to run that in conduit, you can run that in cable pathways, you can run it on J hooks. Just makes it very easy and simple to install. Now, how does class four differ? It actually takes a lot of the benefits on the installation side. So you can install class four circuits very similar to a class two circuit. But now what's different is because you're pushing higher voltages. So, based on the standard or the, the code they're saying, you can push up to 450 volts from a, an fmp system. So that's, that's more than you know, six times the voltage that we know of uh at a, at a at 60 volt, uh volts or 100 volts on the class 2.

Speaker 4: 6:07

Now, but what they're called. They're called energy limited circuits, meaning you can push this high voltage but you have to have a mechanism to shut the circuit off if any fault occurs. And they're concerned with mainly two types of hazards. Always with electricity, you got shock, you know, actually shocking someone that manages that voltage, or starting a fire. And under these hazards there's a series of faults that fault. Managed power systems need to be able to detect and shut the circuit off almost immediately to mitigate against these hazards. And if you could do that, you get listed by UL under a standard code 1400-1. And then, basically now you can be certified as a class four system. And so you get the benefit of the high voltage, which means more power, long distance, thinner copper gauges, more efficient, but then the benefit of a class two installation, which is low voltage. Contractor, hold a cable in the same path as your data or your fiber, etc.

Speaker 1: 7:07

And for those who don't know, class two that Mo keeps referring to is going to be your typical POE, so those people may not know what class two is right. So, from a field tech's perspective, how are they going to be able to identify or interact with a fault managed power system on a job site?

Speaker 4: 7:25

or interact with a fault-managed power system on a job site. So any FMP system will usually have a transmitter and a receiver. Transmitter is going to reside somewhere in the head end or MDF and usually in any building there's usually, let's say, a core switch in a head end or an MDF that's running fiber to IT rooms or IDFs to access switches. So when they go to the head end or in the MDF they're going to see their core switches that they know. But they also see transmitters that are on racks. Those are basically the source of FMP power and they're going to see cabling that's coming out of them that looks very much like structured cabling, so copper cables that are in the range of, let's say, 16 or 18 gauge going out with the fiber or with the data cable to the different IT rooms or IDS.

Speaker 4: 8:18

Now that cable, to identify it it has to be a class 4 listed cable, which means it goes under a UL standard 1400-2. And we'll have class 4 or CL4 on it and it could be plenum, could be riser, could be indoor-outdoor, but it will have CL4, which means it's 450 volts rated cable. That's really the easiest way to identify the cable that's running out to the receiver. And then when they go enter the IT room or the IDF port, it could be in a small enclosure on a wall, it could be a rack in an IT room They'll see different types of receivers that basically are connected to this class four cable and then outputting regular electricity could be DC or AC to the devices that are being powered, let's say switches, in this case an IP loop.

Speaker 1: 9:07

Let me ask you this what kind of equipment are you going to see attached to the end of fault-managed power systems, and what kind of premises Are you going to find this? In a residential home or a commercial or an industrial? What's going to be the applications?

Speaker 4: 9:24

All of the above, and I think the only thing that's limiting it today is really the vendors that supply FMP are focused on specific applications, but today, when it came out in 2023, it was focused more on commercial use, and I know that in 2026, they're actually pushing for residential uh, multi-dwelling and residential. So in the future, you can expect to see fault managed power systems running homes.

Speaker 3: 9:53

So I, I, let me, let me jump in real quick. Uh, mo, is that? As you can see, behind me, we, we have a ranch out here and horses and blah, blah, blah, and I'm dead serious when, in fact, you're going to need to send me all the samples, mo. But what I want to do is I have an arena way down there for the horses and we want lighting down there, okay, and the only way we can do that is to run conduit right, and the only way we can do that is to run conduit right and the traditional way. But with this system, what I'm thinking of doing and it will work is just doing some direct burial.

Speaker 3: 10:34

18-3 could be Set up, the main unit at the house, with one of the remotes down below, okay, and that will power what we want for that arena. I'm serious, it will work. So, again, it sounds kind of a goofy application, but I went through the classes. I'm actually certified to put this in, chuck, and that's very scary in itself. Right there, I'm sorry. Did you say you were certifiable? Is that what you said?

Speaker 2: 11:05

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Speaker 3: 12:05

No, I went through the class on installation and it's absolutely incredible. Even somebody like me can put it in. So, going back to what Mo was saying, again, you know from your commercial to your residential that there's just so many, so many applications that this hasn't even touched yet. But it's available to do so. So I'm sorry for the interrupting you, mo.

Speaker 4: 12:30

No worries, yeah, but you're absolutely right. I mean I get this all the time. These applications, a lot of people actually want this in their homes because they do have like a guard shack or they have something outside and that's kind of where people kind of that's the first thing they think about, because it's a lot of power, long distance, safe Gee. You know that's the. You know it's easy for me to run power outdoors. So I start by saying it's going to be able to power everything. But again, the technology today may be limited or focused on specific applications. So I say let's say we can power anything. But then applications that we see today are enterprise building networks, whether inside or outside the building. So think of any switch or number of switches that are in an IT room in an IDF, indoor or outdoor.

Speaker 4: 13:16

The FMP can be a great way to power those Security and surveillance. That's actually been one of our most successful applications. It's people trying to put cameras outdoors and they're usually running a switch out there and running the fiber to it and no means to run power but that has control on it so you can't really use that power because they shut that circuit off when it's light out. So FMP is a great way to get power to that switch to do security and surveillance cameras, lighting, like Todd mentioned. So for warehousing or even for it's kind of like bringing POE lighting back now Because you have a safe way to run low voltage power to your lighting fixture all the way from FMP all the way to the PV light. And where this all started off was wireless and DAS. That's kind of been the application that has seen some successes but we're slowly or quickly seeing the change towards these other applications I mentioned.

Speaker 1: 14:23

So do you see fault-managed power coexisting or competing with PoE in today's ICT environment?

Speaker 4: 14:32

Absolutely coexisting. It's an enabler. I like to describe it as you know FMP is like the trunk, the main trunk for power and then PoE is the branches out to the devices. And the main trunk for power and then poe's the branches out to the devices. You'll always need poe or some method of class to delivery to the end devices that are pretty low load and that's.

Speaker 1: 14:52

That's actually a good analogy. I like that. I always like trying to just to break things down in their simplest terms, not because the audience needs it, but because chuck needs it. Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, I've been accused of not being the sharpest tool in the shed. Audience needs it because Chuck needs it. Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, I've been accused of not being the sharpest tool in the in the shed.

Speaker 3: 15:09

It's always it's all about Chuck. It always has been it's my show.

Speaker 1: 15:12

So, absolutely, it's all about Chuck. And just remember, I got 100% editing rights here too, buddy, so you've got to watch out. So let's talk about the current hurdles for fault-managed power systems, right? So, again, like I said, I think one of the biggest hurdles is and I just find this from being an instructor and talking to people being all over social media when you sit as you start mentioning fault-managed power systems, you get the deer in the headlight Like huh, what's that? You know we have POE. Well, it's kind of like POE, but it's not like POE. Right? And I'll be the first to admit, I'm kind of like Todd. I am not I'm not the most knowledgeable about fault managed power systems, which is why I have experts on the show like you guys. So let's let's start with the first question and I could see this being a big issue the code, right? Is it a code issue with fault-managed power systems? And also, how are you going to overcome that general lack of unawareness, like I mentioned in the field.

Speaker 4: 16:15

Yeah, that's a loaded question.

Speaker 4: 16:17

I'll throw out different answers to come to a conclusion. First, I'll say it does take a while to educate people on that and, honestly, slides, virtual calls, pictures, spec sheets don't do it justice. And what we've noticed at Pandwa is we got to get in front of people, we got to get them to see actually systems put together Like we did, classes of like, put together your first class for system. And we noticed that once we do that, it it clicked very quickly to say, oh, this is where I can use this, how I can install it, et cetera. To say, oh, this is where I can use this, how I can install it, etc. So it will take some time and it will take multiple vendors to try and educate the market, but we've seen that hands-on touching gear has been kind of the best way for people to actually grasp their head around it and then start actually pitching out opportunities or applications. We're trying to help this education side of things also by we put together what's called an fault managed power alliance. I'm not sure if you're aware of it.

Speaker 1: 17:25

I just had a conversation with Rana last week.

Speaker 4: 17:28

There you go. So, obviously, yes, rona from Volt Server, we got Cisco, we got Belden, we got Prismian and we got Pandua. Those are like the five founding members. We got Prismian and we got Pandua. Those are like the five founding members and really Pandua kind of started to put this together because we understand that there is a big hurdle around education. So the whole premise of the Alliant, which has now been joined by multiple different companies and it's growing, is educate and enable the market for FMP. That's the core target for all of us. Now going to code and what's happening on who installs it, etc.

Speaker 4: 18:04

We believe and are seeing that Nika are actually trying to drive this to make it easier.

Speaker 4: 18:11

On who can install it, they are restructuring the NFPA Article 70, specifically around Class 4 and Class 2, and calling it limited energy. They're calling this whole area limited energy, which will encompass Class 4, fmp, class 2, power or PUE, and coming out with who can install. It is potentially someone with a limited energy certification and that's someone that could be on the low voltage side. That basically goes through some classes and that hasn't really been decided yet and different states are doing it a little bit differently, but that's the direction where it's going is to have a certification, potentially called limited energy, and then enable voltage contractors to be able to and then enable all the contractors to be able to buy and then be able to. Minnesota, for example, is a state that started this way back when they were the first to adopt the NEC 2023 code and recognize class four, and I know their team there has already started putting classes together for kind of a limited energy program and we hope that that kind of helps the adoption overall.

Speaker 1: 19:22

I'm kind of cautiously optimistically waiting for the 2026 code book to come out, cause there's been a lot of stuff put out there about the new coaching is coming down. They're gutting chapter eight, they're stripping away low voltage work. So I'm cautiously optimistic. Now it's going to take me two or three times to read all the changes before I can understand, because that's just the way the code book is.

Speaker 1: 19:48

But you know, like I said, the first hurdle is obviously the awareness. You kind of touch base on that and you also talk about the training. I'll come back to that in just a second. But I think another hurdle too that I kind of forgot to put in the notes to ask you about is it's one thing about knowing about fault managed power system. It's another thing for adopting it. And I know a lot of electricians and I know a lot of people who own electrical companies and I could comfortably say and I don't have this actually researching to say, oh, according to this read, just from my own kind of talking to people at trade shows maybe maybe 10% of electrical contractors who know about fault managed power systems are excited about it or we're ready to do it. The rest of them are like yeah, no, no, we don't want nothing to do with that.

Speaker 2: 20:39

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Speaker 1: 21:24

What are your thoughts on getting the old school, the old school electrical companies and installers on board with this?

Speaker 3: 21:34

They can install it too, right, mo? I mean, I know we talked about this yesterday, but you know it's not limited to who can and who can't. Mo was talking about some of the certifications that may be coming on board, but again, it's just another avenue to power those devices and it's not the traditional way. So you know, and, mo, you can expand upon this. But you know whether you're a low voltage contractor and, mo, you can expand upon this. But you know whether you're a low voltage contractor, a security contractor which you know they're all entwined now or predominantly electrical, anyone can put it in.

Speaker 1: 22:10

So, mo, you want to expand upon that what we were talking about Well that depends on the state and how involved the union is. You can't just draw a blank statement like that across the United States. If you want proof of that, go to the old Google machine type in NEC adoption map and look at that quilt of colors of all the different codes that states are using.

Speaker 3: 22:30

Good point, good point. Out here it's a little bit different, out here in Cali it's a little different. But yeah, good point Joe.

Speaker 4: 22:39

That's true. And when it comes to and I'll kind of answer or kind of comment on what you said, todd and Chuck but for those union heavy, obviously cities, there will be needed help from the end users themselves to help to drive the adoption of it as well. So, and there's different angles, right, it's like you got to educate the electrician and the low voltage contractors to think about installing this. But there's consultants and end users that are driving the projects that are probably a couple of years out and if they see enough value in it, then they're the ones that are going to push it to be done and therefore the contractor has to kind of adopt to that requirement, right. But to Todd's earlier point, exactly right that it doesn't have to be low voltage contractor. I mean, our first installation was actually with Miller Electric and they saw the value because of the speed to install it.

Speaker 4: 23:41

We went into a lot of details for that particular project. To compare a traditional circuit versus a class four, they saved 40 on labor, uh, 50 on materials. We're talking mainly because they didn't have to run conduit now. So, and a lot less staff, and did it very quickly within two days versus two weeks. So for them as an electrical contractor. They have the benefit of being able to tackle multiple projects now with the same number of people, because they can get to jobs quicker without having to bend pipe and run conduit. It won't be for every installation out there and I think it just takes them once. If they do it once, then they'll get the feel for where else they can use it and that's going to help start the adoption, in my opinion.

Speaker 1: 24:30

You know another hurdle. I can see the authority having jurisdiction the electrical inspectors. And let me just kind of give you a little background on this, because I come from the low-voltage industry. I was an apprentice, an installer, a technician, a project mower, and one of the things I've learned early is AHJs. Everybody likes to look at the AHJs and think they are like the gods. They know everything about everything. Ahjs are notoriously poorly educated, especially on things that they don't do day in and day out, like low voltage, right Matter of fact, if a low voltage project gets inspected, usually one of the first things the inspector wants to know is did you use glen and radiant time wraps? Because that's all they know to ask, right, that's all they know to ask. They don't know anything else about low voltage. Now we're putting in fault mesh dropper systems. How are we going to get the AHJs up to speed in all this?

Speaker 3: 25:23

Just use plenum tie wraps on the install and they're fine.

Speaker 4: 25:30

No, it's a great question. We kind of have been doing it on a per-opportunity basis. When something comes up and we need to have a conversation, we do and try to educate. But that's also an effort that we're hoping the Alliance could tackle is educational inspectors and AHAs and it's.

Speaker 1: 25:50

You know, it's still the Alliance, is still in its infancy, but that's one of the core areas where we're trying to educate the masses basically, Let me ask you this is not a question that's not on the list, and if you don't know, just say you don't know and I'll edit it out Do you guys do any work with the POE consortium? Because I see you guys kind of doing the same thing at different arenas and I think if you two got together, man, there should be some real synergy there.

Speaker 4: 26:18

There are talks between the POE consortium and the FNP Alliance because, at the end of the day, we want to feed the POE source, which is the switch. What the structure of that looks like has not been decided yet, but I know that we're trying to figure out. How can we be members of each other's alliances or consortiums, how can we drive the market together, and I think we'll come up with a conclusion on how to do that.

Speaker 1: 26:43

Yeah, that's going to be a match made in heaven there. That's what I tell people all the time. I'm so sad that I'm at the end of my career because there's so much cool stuff coming down the bike. I want to work in this industry another 40 years, because there's so much cool stuff. I'm just my body won't. Let me do it though.

Speaker 3: 27:00

You'd be 120 years old at that point, Chuck. So four years.

Speaker 1: 27:05

Close to it, close to it, but you know, hey, there you go, right.

Speaker 4: 27:09

So let me ask, let me ask he's still got the time, he's still got the energy, chuck, so just keep at it.

Speaker 1: 27:14

I tell people Tom.

Speaker 2: 27:26

I'm going to be talking about structured cabling until you bury me in the ground, and you better have a single mode fiber going to my grave site. Let's take a short break. Are you trying to reach the technicians, project managers and decision makers of the ICT industry? Then why aren't you advertising on let's Talk Cabling? With over 150,000 impressions a month across podcasts, youtube and social media? This isn't just a show. It's the go-to resource for the low voltage industry. We spotlight the tools, training and technology shaping the future of structured cabling, and your brand could be front and center. Don't just get noticed. Get trusted Email. Chuck at advertising at letstalkcablingcom and let's connect your brand to the right audience today.

Speaker 1: 28:12

So let's talk about from a project management standpoint, right? So, or maybe even maybe not project management, maybe a estimator design standpoint. How are they going to be able to get fault managed power systems specced into projects? Because we're still fighting the hurdle of people not being familiar with it.

Speaker 4: 28:32

Yeah, I mean today we asked for Panduit to be engaged on the project To get some details on, and it's really it's not a lot of information. We're basically asking you know, you have a you know, let's say, it room. What kind of equipment is going there? How much power, what voltage are they consuming? And then where, how far is the head end or the MDF that's feeding the fiber freezer? It could be a room, it could be outside, or the MDF that's feeding the fiber freezer? It could be a room, it could be outside. Once we get that distance and power voltage, we can very quickly give an estimate on. Here's the bill of material for Pandora FMP plus the cable, and that's usually the first stab at it. That could be done within a day if I have all the numbers. We have tools for that and we've been actually sharing these tools with our contractor partners to train them on how to use it and eventually we're looking to be able to provide something that's online on our website that people can actually do a quick estimate themselves.

Speaker 1: 29:36

Another question not on the list. I'm notorious for shooting from the hip. If somebody wants to join the alliance, is it open up to only manufacturers? Is it open to installers? Is it open to companies? And how would somebody join the alliance and what benefits would they get out of doing that?

Speaker 4: 29:58

uh, anyone. In fact, we would love to get a mix of everyone because we need the different perspectives. We are looking for installers and end users to really participate more. Right now it's been more on the vendors or manufacturers side and there are different tiers as well. I think there's like an adopter tier or something very low but pretty minimal, because we are trying to attract more people to join and the benefit is kind of being up to date on from the main, because you got the top vendors of FMP equipment and most of the cable vendors as well that are part of this alliance. So you'll get the latest information on, obviously, products that are available but, at the same time, application case studies, use cases, potentially being able to participate in writing white papers or some publicly consumed material. So that's really the benefit I would say today.

Speaker 1: 31:01

So when you mentioned the training and the certification, would that be something done through the Alliance or would that be something done through another organization, like Bixie or Nika?

Speaker 4: 31:14

Right now, each vendor will do its own thing until eventually maybe it ends up being like a Dixie certification. Right now, panduit, we're working on a certification program and we've kind of done a few of them for a few contractors but are going to make it more available. You three of this year, an official certification for FMP installation and that has some benefits in terms of warranty extension et cetera. Right right, but you know, that's how it's done today.

Speaker 1: 31:47

I see so many parallels with early Ethernet. Right, because early Ethernet all the manufacturers had their own training and then Bixie got involved and they said you know, hey, let's have some vendor agnostic training, some verification Is it, is fault managed power system going to head down that same route of vendor agnostic? So that way you know somebody certified they can put in ABC's fault managed power system or XYZ's fault managed power systems.

Speaker 4: 32:17

Yeah, I think the majority of the education can come through vendor agnostic and then there may be some minimal certification that's based on the actual vendors, like a Pandu system to know exactly how to use the user interface, for example, or things that are nuances that are specific to that product. I did a joint class with Cisco. That was kind of a three to four hour installation FMP. It was meant to be vendor agnostic, where most of the content was kind of stripped from the Panduit logo basically. But when you get your hands on a product it has to have some kind of vendor on it. But it was meant to be. Here's a course on FMP how to applications, how to install it, and let's put beer together.

Speaker 3: 33:08

Speaking of Cisco real quick. Just was it last week or the week before, mo, we were at Cisco Live and partnered up with Cisco Live and working systems and you know it was great. So if you and we got some great video from that as well, so if you want, if you want a link to that, reach out to myself or Mo, but it was, it was just a great partner event, so check it out if you need to. Good stuff.

Speaker 1: 33:40

I wanted to go to that but I went to the Infocomm in Orlando instead and I wanted to go to that class at the Big C thing. But my only complaint about the Big C conferences is they have a tendency to put two really good classes on at the exact same time and you've got to decide which one to get to.

Speaker 1: 34:02

Yeah, and then you kind of feel missing out. On the other, that's my only complaint about Big C conferences. So now that we've talked about the current roadblocks right, one of the things I always tell people about our industry if you don't like this industry, wait five minutes, it's going to change. We are always changing, right, so let's start looking ahead, right? So where do you see fault-managed power systems being used in relation to, like, smart buildings or security systems, or fiber to the edge?

Speaker 4: 34:30

I mean all of the above again, but the things that we didn't touch on. That I think will get there with FMP is actually powering data centers.

Speaker 1: 34:42

I know that data centers today are that's a lot of power. How do you do data centers over fault-managed power?

Speaker 4: 34:47

So you'll notice that a lot of data centers today, especially for AI purposes, they're actually driving towards a standard on DC voltage and they're talking in the range of 380 or 400 volts to run that to the rack and that's not safe voltage. So fmp can really add that layer of safety on top of it. So now you can just basically run fmp to the rack and um, and we're right there on that voltage, right. We talked about class 4 being around 450 volts. So it're right there on that voltage, right. We talked about class four being around 450 volts. So it's right there. Now the equipment out there may not be suited for, you know, 100 kilowatt rack today, but I can tell you that there's work being done and being looked at to how do we actually get the channels up from, let's say, a kilowatt per channel to four or five, eventually be able to do that, and we're not far from that.

Speaker 1: 35:46

Well, you keep saying this term and I want you to clarify it for me because, again, keep it simple for especially Todd and maybe me, right, Safe voltage. What's the difference between safe voltage and regular? Because I've read the NEC, I don't remember seeing safe voltage listed in there.

Speaker 4: 36:02

You're right and maybe I'm misusing the term. So when I say safe voltage, I mean it's high voltage, but the layer of fault management on it, meaning that you have a transmitter receiver that are looking across the cable that's pushing that voltage and making sure that if you touch it it shuts the circuit off, or if there's a short circuit or an arc it's going to turn off instantly. That's the layer of safety that I'm talking about.

Speaker 1: 36:27

How quick is that? How many times I don't know a second does it pull that to make sure that it's safe? And if it determines something's not safe, how quick is the transmitter to shut down the voltage so the people or property don't get damaged?

Speaker 4: 36:43

Yeah, so it depends on each render. I could tell you, on the Panduit system, it takes us a maximum of two milliseconds to shut that circuit off and it does reset itself. So if the fault is not there anymore, it will restart itself again within a couple of seconds. The fault is not there anymore, it will restart itself again within a couple of seconds. And so your question is kind of a little bit loaded, because it depends on the voltage that the system is pushing and it also depends on the power, gotcha. So in the standard they have a graph that shows based on this voltage, this much current, you need to shut off within this time limit. Based on this voltage, this much current, you need to shut off within this time limit.

Speaker 1: 37:26

And so that's why it can be different from different ventures and for people who don't know, go ahead, todd.

Speaker 3: 37:30

Well, no, and one of the coolest things I and I'm going Neanderthal Cro-Magnon here, but when I was first introduced to it is that you know you can protect everything with a single UPS. That's one of the. It's incredibly cool and basically your UPS sits at, you know, your base unit and then everything that is connected, all right, is now managed by that single UPS, so you don't have to have multiple UPS for backup. So a very cool feature of the FMPS platform.

Speaker 1: 38:07

And I also want to add to that too, because this probably went over a lot of people's heads Two milliseconds.

Speaker 2: 38:13

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:13

The brain doesn't have time to visually, in the visual cortex, to process information, not ours.

Speaker 3: 38:20

No, no, yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:22

That's extremely correct.

Speaker 4: 38:24

Yeah, Now, something that I do want to mention is when you touch that voltage, depending on the person, you will feel something. It's not like you know you touch it and there's nothing there. You will feel something, but it's not going to harm you. Basically, that's the whole idea behind it and it will shut down. And it really does depend from person to person and depends on how humid the weather is, Because at the end of the day, you end up being a resistor in that circuit.

Speaker 1: 38:55

For people like me who like to put salt on everything, I'm going to be a little more conductive than when people don't like to put a little bit of salt on. Hey, I'm from the South. I salt and pepper and spice, everything, everything. So let's talk about mentoring, right? So for the new ICT designer project manager, right. What would you tell them to learn today so they don't get left behind in this fault managed power stuff?

Speaker 4: 39:21

Definitely read up and learn about fault-managed power in class 4. And even though it seems like there's still not a lot of deployments out there, it's still new but it really is the future of power delivery and for someone that's in the low-voltage realm, it's going to give them an advantage to be able to come into a project, to pitch in an opportunity, a way to actually run power to the devices that they're basically running structured cabling to. They will run into these cases and having the answer is going to give them an edge against or versus other competitors.

Speaker 1: 39:57

Is that one of the things the alliance is in their crosshairs is to produce white papers or technical documents that will be forward facing to, to you know, people like me who want to learn more about it.

Speaker 4: 40:10

Absolutely yes, that that's one of the main targets of the alliance is to create marketing material.

Speaker 1: 40:16

Not marketing, but educating, educating material, Let me ask you another question, cause Ty kind of gave his example running power out to his, his, his horse arena. I could have several jokes right there to embarrass the heck out of it.

Speaker 3: 40:32

They're the wise horses, so anyway.

Speaker 1: 40:35

I'll let it sit right there instead of doing his traditional one 20 targets going out to that application. Do you see fault? Managed power system replacing 120, coexisting with 120? What do you see? I'm talking. I'm like the Japanese. I like to look 10 years out, 15 years out, 20 years out. Right, Do you see replacing that?

Speaker 4: 41:00

It's going to coexist for a while, but eventually, yes, you could have, depending on the type of building, you could have buildings that are all run by FMP and, because you know like loads when I think of a building loads today like chillers, air handlers, elevators, maybe quite a bit of power that can be handled by FMP systems today, but I know that FMP it's only going to get more power and more efficient over time, like we're just in the beginning of it. So eventually you'll be able to capture all of these loads.

Speaker 1: 41:38

Yeah, because I watched a really great video yesterday on Ethernet and how it evolved from 10Base 5 to 10Base 2, 10base T all stuff that I installed right and then to today's current environment where we're doing 10 gig and 40 gig. And you're right, this industry is going to keep going. It's always going to get better and better and better. So if somebody's listening today and they're thinking, man, this sounds like the future, kind of like me, right, but I don't even know where to start, what advice would you give them?

Speaker 4: 42:10

um, obviously, given that I'm from panduit, we do have a lot of uh material online, uh videos myself. I have like four or five videos on there on YouTube that they can learn about the product, the applications, a little bit about the code. We have some material out there, a technology brief that really explains again the standards and the code. Again, please visit the Pandwa website, take a look at a lot of our materials and feel free to contact myself, contact Thad, like I'm on calls all the time to just to educate um and talk about the technology. That cause. That's eventually that that that's really what we need more people to actually know and adopt the technology overall.

Speaker 1: 42:55

You know I I'd learned something on this. This episode I found a way to keep todd quiet. Talk about fault managed power system.

Speaker 3: 43:04

You know I'm just picking on you brother, you know I'm, I'm I'm, you know, I'm, I'm kind of, I'm kind of the booth babe of the of the show, uh, chuck and and, uh, you know, I'm the eye candy and and and I get. I'm okay with that, I'm okay with being quiet for a little bit.

Speaker 1: 43:28

But anyway, I'll be quiet now. Hey, let me ask you this question Todd, Are you going to restart your podcast?

Speaker 3: 43:35

You know, I was actually back in Chicago at Panduit and, believe it or not, we were talking labeling, you know, and I know a little bit about that. But you know, the products that we have are very, very diverse, and it's not only Panduit, it's other products as well, and so I'm not laser focused on, you know, one platform which is labeling, and obviously Panduit has labeling. But there's so much more to talk about, you know, on the podcast, and so it's been kicked around and I've got some backers and I think it's just a matter of finding the time to do it. So, yeah, I think it's around the corner, Chuck, and and I miss it, I miss you, believe it or not, I, I I may edit this part out where I'm. I'm actually saying I miss you and uh, and the stuff that we've done together is is, uh, you know that's, that's some some good time, so, um, yeah, I'll be forward to that I always enjoyed watching your episodes and so I kind of look forward to it.

Speaker 1: 44:44

And that's one of the things I love about having my podcast it's purely agnostic. You can hear me talking about Fluke in one episode and AM the next episode, or Brady Labels or your brother. Labels other labels. My opinions on this show are totally separated from my day job. This is not my day job podcast. This is my podcast and that's why I said you'll see a little bit of everything on it. That's why I love doing the show, because I get to talk to people like Todd and Mo Chuck do you mind if I?

Speaker 4: 45:15

I think there's something that we missed on bringing up. It's the why Like, why even. It's the why Like, why even, and it's a why more for the end user why FMP?

Speaker 1: 45:26

Okay let's go there.

Speaker 4: 45:28

Yeah, yeah. So we talked about features, which is really like a lot of power, long distance, thin copper gauge. We talked about who can install it, but from the end user perspective and what we're seeing is the value cheaper deployment, faster deployment. Todd talked about this consolidation of UPS, so being able to run power from one central location that can provide power up to two kilometers away. Now, all these IDFs or IT rooms or or you know switches that are outdoors, that are you have UPSs in. You can eliminate all those and centralize the UPS and connect it to your transmitters so you can back up everything centrally.

Speaker 4: 46:16

That that's actually a big pain point for a lot of end users out there, and we were at Cisco Live. It keeps coming up. Oh, you mean I don't have to worry about that battery and the UPS that I have to put way up high in, let's say, the warehouse or fulfillment center and I don't have to deal with that anymore. That's fantastic to them, so that's big value. Fantastic to them, so that's big value. And obviously, end of the day, is lower CapEx on the just overall installation and we talked about that case study at the value. So these are kind of some of the main. Why YFMP Great points.

Speaker 1: 46:55

Gentlemen, thanks for coming on the show.

Speaker 4: 46:58

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 3: 46:59

Chuck, thanks for putting up with me. Chuck, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 47:05

Anytime brother.

Speaker 2: 47:21

Thank you for joining us on let's Talk Cable and stay tuned for more episodes filled with innovation. Keep connecting, keep achieving. Until next time.