Starting from Scratch - A Journey from Uncertainty to Career Reinvention - Osnat Benari : 99

Osnat is a Product Coach, Author of the bestselling book "Starting From Scratch - Manage Change Like Your Career Depends On It," and Speaker.

Imagine leaving everything you know behind to start a new life in another country with another culture, only to be warned that the job you're moving for may not be there after all. That's precisely what happened to Osnat, our guest on today's episode, who bravely decided to relocate from Israel to the US, despite looming uncertainty. Listen as she shares the gripping journey of courage, resilience, and "Starting from Scratch." 

After her worst fears materialized and his position was eliminated, Osnat didn't crumble. Instead, she used this setback to fuel his determination, presenting a compelling case to her boss with research and data to back her claims. Not only did this move to get her rehired, but it also paved the way for another career reinvention. Osnat's story is a testament to the power of well-honed networking skills, understanding people's motivations, and preparing for oneself in the workplace.

During our conversation, Osnat shares insights from her book “STARTING FROM SCRATCH.” A toolkit packed with everything you need to make change work for you. You'll learn how to grow your knowledge, build your resilience, connect with the right kind of support, recognize when change is coming, design your role model, step into her shoes, and manage your mental health along the way. Osnat emphasizes the importance of honest conversations with your manager and the value of mentorship. Her experience of wearing multiple hats - as a consultant, writer, author, mom, speaker, and course developer - speaks volumes about her incredible resilience and relentless pursuit of growth. So, prepare to be inspired and enlightened by Osnat's journey, packed with invaluable lessons for personal development and career reinvention.

Send Audience To:
https://www.startingfromscratchthebook.com/

Transcript

Daniela: 0:00

Hi, i'm Daniela. Welcome to my podcast, because everyone has a story, the place to give ordinary people, stories, the chance to be shared and preserved. Our stories become the language of connections. Let's enjoy it, connect and relate, because everyone has a story. Welcome to episode number 99.

Daniela: 0:34

My guest, Osnat Benari. Osna is a product coach, author of the best-selling book Starting from Scratch and speaker, among so many other things that she actually has talents for. Imagine leaving everything you know behind to start a new life in another country with another culture, only to be warm a few days before you're leaving that the job you're moving for may not be there after all. That's precisely what happened to Osna On our first pre-chat. I was so engaged with her conversation and the book that she wrote that I have to get it immediately.

Daniela: 1:11

Osnat is sharing insights from her book Starting from scratch. It is a toolkit packed with everything you need to make change work for you. You will learn how to grow your knowledge, build your resilience, connect with the right kind of support, recognize when change is coming and manage your mental health along the way. She's not only a beautiful person, she's a very smart woman and has invaluable lessons for personal development and career reinvention. Lex and your story. Welcome, osna. I'm very excited that you're here today, and I'm very happy that I met you as well, so welcome.

Osnat: 1:48

Thank you. I'm excited as well because we've spoken so much and I feel like we became friends, so I'm happy we're doing this And you're in New York and I'm Vancouver.

Daniela: 1:58

So the other extremes.

Osnat: 2:00

Yeah.

Daniela: 2:01

Osnat, why do you want to share a story with us?

Osnat: 2:04

I started writing the book, i think for my own healing. I went through so many changes in the workplace that affected me in my career. Every single time I needed to start from scratch. I needed to recover, i needed to reinvent myself and it takes so much Even after you do that, it still takes a toll So I felt like I needed a reset, i needed to clean this up. So I probably started for myself, but then when I decided to open the door and kind of share it with the world, i felt that it has a bigger mission, which is to recover more people and to recover more work places, because eventually that's where we spend so much of our time that I needed to be good. I needed to be a good place. I wanted to be a place where I enjoy coming to when, where I feel that I can grow, and where my peers are healthy and happy as well.

Daniela: 3:05

Yes, and when we spoke the first time, i was very curious about your book, so immediately I got it and it's called Starting from Scratch And it has a lot of wonderful information that I'm sure you're going to share it with us. My next question is when does your story start?

Osnat: 3:22

Yeah, my chapter starts about nine years ago. Eight nine years ago I moved to the States. I moved for a job And then I received a call from my ex boss saying that actually he's leaving and I shouldn't come to the United States, I shouldn't actually go forward with the relocation offer that they gave me. And he said that because he knew something that I was probably blocking or not admitting that that would put me in risk of the reorg that would come after his departure, would put me at a risk, put me in a place where, okay, i moved, my family, i moved and started in a new country and now I need to go back. So my story starts there, in that kind of conversation that we're having and me deciding to go ahead and then me going through that restructure, putting me at risk what I needed to do in order to reinvent myself and not lose that job.

Daniela: 4:22

Wonderful You were living in Israel. Yes.

Osnat: 4:25

I was living in Israel, moved to the States for a job, thinking that I would basically come to do a similar job to what I did originally in Israel. It was a little bit bigger and I received responsibility for another team. But I knew the team, i knew the product, i knew my job. There was some stability, despite the fact that I'm starting in a new country that allowed me to have the confidence to come and do this work here. But then you know when a reorg comes your way and that shuffles all the cards and all the confidence that I had that everything is okay and I know everything and I know where this is going, changed all of a sudden.

Daniela: 5:08

Yes, i can imagine Going back. So you boss was leaving and he said don't take the job, don't go to the States. But you decided that you were going to do it anyway.

Osnat: 5:18

It was a little bit too late to say that, to make that decision, because I already rented my home. I already had like, literally when he was calling, i had tenants come in and to take the keys It was very late in the game. it would have been devastating to cancel it either way. but definitely to pack and move and rent the apartment here in New York and then pack again and go back would have been even more painful. He was trying to basically warn me that that's possible. He probably knew better than me that there are people that were having different plans for me or different plans for the group And I decided that it's too late, the opportunity is very big.

Osnat: 6:07

And then I think that mentally when he called me, mentally we're already gone. So that's why it was very, very hard to say, oh you know what, okay, i'm not going to risk it. And I will say that in other opportunities, especially in Israel, where I knew the network, i knew the industry, every time it didn't work out, i was able to reinvent myself and find another job. But to come to a new country with no network and without really knowing the culture and everybody around and also having that fear of losing your work permit, basically that added a new level of stress that really required me to stretch whatever I had in me and be able to reinvent myself. so I don't lose that job, wow.

Daniela: 6:55

You came with your family. Did you think you were going to go back? or you think, well, if I lose this job, I am going to find another job here.

Osnat: 7:02

I knew that if I lose the job, i will not have something else instead. The work permit came with a specific workplace And I even had in my contract that I understand that that is a possibility and that if that happens, then I have a very limited time to basically pack my things and leave. That option was not really an option. My only option was to pull whatever I had in me and reinvent myself so that they don't let me go. I was actually invited to a meeting with then my boss's replacement and he called me to his office to fire me. In that conversation I saw it coming. You already started.

Osnat: 7:46

There's certain things you say, a certain tone that you have when it comes your way. He already started and then I told him that I need to stop him and tell him that I understand where this conversation is going, but I would love for him to understand what I can do for the company. I can tell you what I'm doing right now and I understand that if this is what I'm doing, then you don't need me. But here are my skills and here are the things that I can do for the company And this is why you should basically rehire me, or why I'm still a good fit for the company and for him specifically for his plans, and he liked it.

Osnat: 8:26

He liked the fact that one that I challenged him, he was very much of that leader There's no other word for that but a leader that is not afraid of an employee objecting or an employee saying what they think, and he's actually very much intrigued by what other people are saying, by other opinion, by other ways of doing things.

Osnat: 8:49

So me challenging him and telling him no, you're about to make a mistake If you let me go, he actually appreciated it And he became, not only then my new boss, but then later until today, my very, very dear advisor. Like every time I need to consult about my career, he's one of the first people I call. And I'm saying one of the first people because he's that person that will give me the honest truth back. When sometimes I'm not as strong mentally, then I need to work on my mental part first and then call him, because he will tell me very straight what I'm doing wrong, what I should be doing, where am I failing, and you need to be in the right headspace in order to get that feedback. I had that really honest conversation with him and he appreciated it and chose me, chose me to stay and chose me for a new job.

Daniela: 9:46

That sounds great. Osnat, how do you prepare for that conversation? Were you thinking where you're having a plan? How did that happen?

Osnat: 9:53

Absolutely. I was very much prepared for that conversation. I was actually waiting for a while. I was actually surprised that it's not happening much faster. What I did is I learned who he is. First, i looked up his resume. I looked on his LinkedIn. He was extremely senior, so there was a press release when he joined the company explaining what his vision is and why he joined the company and why the company hired him. I started connecting the dots of okay, now I understand what he's coming here to do. I started assuming what he would need on his team and it wasn't what I was at the time.

Osnat: 10:39

He's a very creative person and he came with the new agenda and I'm a techie. I came to take care of the tech. A lot of the times people like him take the tech side for granted. They would say, okay, i expect this to work already. Now let's focus on the creative side. I knew that if I would come and give him all my spiel around why I'm so great in leading the tech side, it would not resonate with him. It's a different story that he needs to hear.

Osnat: 11:13

I did tell him that what he would need on the tech side in order for his creative plans to happen and what we're missing on the tech side, so that whatever creative plans he has, they're not possible on the current tech that we had. Then it created one. He understood that I can speak his language, that I am open to hearing and being led by someone that isn't a techie like me. And then the second thing that he appreciated he appreciated that i already came with an understanding of You know, whatever your plans are, they will not work because we're not ready. Like i explained to him what you know, our focus was in my previous role and that's why we never sold for what he's coming with. So then we created this trust in the room where he said, okay, i need her cuz she knows me, she understands my plans and she also understands what we would need Going forward. But i spent many, many days in order to understand who he is, what's his agenda, what he would come to do.

Osnat: 12:22

I did make some assumption, but a lot of the information exists and in my book i do mention it. I know that when we're hired, we are in this mindset of you know, let's just do our work and do it best, but We do need to leave a little bit of room to open our ears and our eyes to what's going around us, because announcements such as his joining the company Had so much information and so many opportunities for me and for other people as well in the organization. But we need to keep our heads up in order to listen. We can't just come and do the work. Yes, we need to do your work ninety five percent of the time, but leave that five percent to be open to listening to the organization, listening to the market, listening to your customers, so that you have this bigger picture and you ready when changes coming your way.

Daniela: 13:21

That's wonderful visa wisdom, thank you. How do you learn to do this?

Osnat: 13:26

so in my book i do talk about having and learning mindset to put yourself in this place where you're constantly learning new things. There's no magic in this. No one's born like that. The only way to really do it is to put it on our calendar, to put an hour week where we free ourselves to read books, to read blogs, to read newsletters, to just be open to new things that are happening around us. So it is related to your work. It is related to what you're specialized in, but it is something that is extra. You sometimes can take away new opportunities from it. You know, maybe new Responsibilities that you can take over on your job, or maybe even a promoted version of you will take care of whatever you're taking care of today, plus other things that you've learned.

Osnat: 14:24

Being open and speaking to Peers and speaking to people that do your job in a different industry or your job in a different company entails really learning and knowing new things And it's a muscle. So if you do it an hour every week and you do it for a while, then you start putting aside a list of things, and i have a list of things. I do it on fridays. These are the emails i want to read and make sure that i didn't miss a piece of information that could be Valuable. Or there's a newsletter that i'm subscribed to which has a lot of information that i like to know, but i don't have time during the week, so what i do is i flag them and on fridays i go and i look for that newsletter and i spend that time To read that.

Osnat: 15:13

Have that list of you know either books or podcasts or youtube videos or whatever it is and from time to time you can also pepper it with you know meeting other people. One of the things i like to ask people when i meet them is what do you recommend? you know i read, or is there a place that you go and you read things in this industry that i can learn from as well? And then i add it to my list, and i never finished that list. It's an never ending list and i do change priorities, but it is a habit that i have, and something that we need to all have as part of our preparation, to never be really blindsided by change and i think this goes also for your regular life.

Daniela: 15:59

Yeah, maybe set up a time during the week just to learn about anything like. Even if you are like me, i want to learn about. Technology is something that there is out there. So, yeah, that is a great idea. Where you like this, since you were younger, where you always the person that find a strategy to convince somebody, tell you how i can sell myself, i feel like you read my book, i thought that the first time i reinvented myself was that.

Osnat: 16:26

Was that what i mentioned when i moved to the states and i had to reinvent myself in that room to not get laid off? but when i wrote the book, then i did more digging and more research and looked into What are the kind of what's in my dna that made me able to reinvent myself. And then, you know, i all of a sudden recalled i was working as a teenager. I was 14 years old. I was working for a teen magazine. As a teen journalist, i was writing stories about children like me, about school. I had A gossip column where the journal was with. The magazine was giving me access to local celebrities that i could Interview and write their stories, doing it for about a year.

Osnat: 17:13

And then, all of a sudden, the magazine had a restructure. They brought a new editor in chief and he had different plans for the magazine, and one of his plans was to let go of all the teen journalists And make it a more professionally written magazine by only adult journalists. So that was his plan. He let me and my team go. We were about 20 of us that we were meeting every week and you're exchanging stories and sometimes we were covering stories together. It was It was a good group of us that you know this is what we were doing every week, and when he let us all go, it was devastating.

Osnat: 17:53

I wrote him a letter. I wrote him a very long letter saying basically everything i wanted to tell him of why i think his decision is a wrong decision. I sent it. I was really sad. My parents were like okay, let's, let's take a vacation and just forget about this.

Osnat: 18:10

We went on the vacation when i came back but when i came back, on the end Answering machine there was a message. The message was from editor that was responsible for the for the teens that were in writing for the magazine. She was like i don't know what you did, but everybody's back And there's a team meeting and you're already hired. So i did it when i was 14 or 15 at the time already, and i do believe that there is something about being able to Tell your story and how you can help. You know, whatever your trajectory is, you can change it. You just need to learn the situation.

Osnat: 18:50

You know, i didn't tell him. You know, hey, you made a mistake, goodbye. I actually had a whole Research about it. I added quotes from people. I added thank you letters that i was getting to the magazine after i was writing specific stories. Like i really beef this letter that i wrote to him with a lot of Data that basically back my story of why he's making that mistake. I think that those pillars of the conversation that i had then is probably the same, the same pillars that i used. Probably like what twenty years later?

Daniela: 19:26

But naturally then you are a person with a logical and very strategic mindset that is also not just thinking about what you want, but what is the other person needs. With me, the first book that i ever read my dad gave me, like They'll Carnegie how to make friends and influence people. What is it for them so that i can get what i want?

Osnat: 19:45

yeah, something you said. There's another book called give and take and it is about The power of networking. It is around really understanding motivations of people. Like it's not the seat, it's actually sometimes People don't even know what they need. It is okay to check with them.

Osnat: 20:04

So, for example, with my boss, is like you know, you are about to embark on this new strategy. Did you know that Our tech stack will never be able to accommodate to your plans? he never thought about it. Not that i manipulated the situation or told him what he needed and he didn't. He actually did need it, and i think that We sometimes take for granted that we might have more information during that situation than the other side. Sharing that and saying did you notice that this is what's missing and this is what i can bring to the table, is definitely a strategy That can work in those type of situations. Yes, yes, you're right, and in general, i think that a rule of good networking is, first thing, of what the other side needs, so that you build trust, because if you bother getting to know me, if you bother getting to know what i need, you're thinking of how to help me first. Then obviously will be weird if i don't help you yes, think to understand first before wish to be understood.

Osnat: 21:07

It's that being open to learning new things. Absolutely yes exactly, exactly.

Daniela: 21:12

I mean not easy, even in conversations when the other person is bringing a point you like why Are they disagree with me? and i had a situation like that and i was. I don't understand their point and i'm getting furious. At least i notice that this was happening to me and then, after meeting, i try to see why is it That we're having this discussion and i didn't really me, but it was interesting, at least i was able to. Okay, i need to try to understand, but i couldn't yeah, and actually sometimes even say it.

Osnat: 21:42

Help me understand it, because i don't. And it's okay. It's like, as long as you're open, i think that the other side will be open as well. When you close yourself to new ideas, when you close yourself to a situation, when you have different opinions, you lose the chance or the advantage that you have to collaborate with the other side.

Daniela: 22:03

Yes, then what happened? he hire, you did have to reinvent yourself.

Osnat: 22:08

Yeah, so i actually. At the end of that conversation he said you know what you know. I hear what you're saying about what you can do for the company and i Want you to do that. Here's what my thought is. And he laid out his strategy and his kind of first step towards that strategy And ask me if i think that i can manage that project. I felt that it was a test, testing if i can stretch myself and say yes, but i also knew that it's a real one. It's not like a fake test that he's just letting me Do something until he makes a different decision, like he actually gave me a chance, he actually believed in me. I felt then committed To making him succeed, not just myself succeed. Right, we had this bond in that moment that he trusts me and i trust him and now i'll do everything to prove that he made the right decision.

Daniela: 23:04

And this is a very important point that you bring, because you bond, there's now, you feel loyal. Now i wanna work for you.

Osnat: 23:11

It's not just about the company, is about the person and that, if leaders will understand That, that's how they can connect and engage their staff definitely it's leadership does have these traits, which i definitely think he has Kind of rallying someone around the cause, making it bigger, as like a something that you work, everybody needs to work towards and it's not just about him. The secret that comes with it, or the magic that comes with it, is that there is eventually a connection between two people And isn't. As an employee, i constantly wanted him to be successful with. That said, it's very important that you don't join an organization only to work for one specific leader. It's not that i haven't done it, i've done it.

Osnat: 24:01

Leaders come with the risk That they'll move on one day and they'll grow, or that they'll get a bigger responsibility, and then that reorg that comes with their growth can be risky to you. It puts you in that starting from scratch place that if you're not prepared, then you know you're. You're again in this situation where you know the only person you work for, the only person you worried to make successful, was that single person and when they're gone or when they move on, there's no longer a place for you in the organization. So it's very important that, while you work for that person and i wish for everybody to have a leader as i had, you still work for the company.

Osnat: 24:53

You never just take care of your team or your things to succeed. You actually really Look at the whole company and not your personal interest. You work to have relationship with peers. You make sure that not just your boss but other leaders in the company know What is the effect of your work so that when changes coming and it happened to me in other work places when my boss was no longer my boss, they had a job offer for me. They said okay, there changes. Now I would like you to join my team. We need to do our job really well, but leave that percentage of time to both learn as well as network with other people and build relationship with your peers, because when the organization changes, they'll be there to give you the blessing to stay, to grow, show your new opportunities.

Daniela: 25:48

Well said, thank you, okay. And then what happened? what happened? you reinvented yourself. You prove yourself that you were doing a great job, yeah.

Osnat: 25:59

I did and i'm until today. I think it's one of the best jobs i had. It is like that, both because of obviously prevailing and staying with the company, but also because i needed to reinvent myself. There is plenty of things i didn't know How to do and he trusted me to close the gap and learn new things. And it's stretch me in. It taught me things that i didn't know, that i could do that, and now i know I also added this kind of tool into my tool set that i know that i can reinvent myself and i know that i can add new skills to whatever i'm working on if i need to. So that's like a confidence kind of tool That he added to me. I stayed with the company for several more years. He moved on to other endeavors, but i reinvented, reinvented myself over and over again in the same organization state with for several years until i moved myself to another opportunity.

Daniela: 27:00

So you are adaptable and flexible.

Osnat: 27:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah, which i think like you have to be otherwise absolutely Yeah, and i think on our first conversation i think i shared with you this the statistics that people on average change. I need to change jobs or job situations twelve times on average. if this is the average, some people do it more and some people less obviously, but change comes your way regardless of who you are and what you do. so it is a skill That you need to master because otherwise, every single time, something changes, your devastated or you're at the situation that you might lose versus be prepared and be able to reinvent yourself and win.

Daniela: 27:45

Yes, i mean it's okay to complain a little bit, but then just move on, yeah, and shake it off and move on, yes, okay, and then why do you change? why do you leave the company?

Osnat: 27:56

i was just offered a new opportunity in a different workplace. I like to build things and That opportunity was too big to miss. It wasn't like you know i left after five years with the company, so i wasn't like that. I dropped everything and moved on. I think that i Contribute it enough and grew in that organization as much as i could, and just the new opportunity that came my way i didn't look for it, you know, it kind of came to me was interesting enough for me to decide that you know, yeah, i want to do that leap and grow again and start from scratch again.

Daniela: 28:33

And also not. do you believe also that the first year is your learning, the second year there observing if you are a good fit for the team and the third manager start thinking of you as a promotion possibilities?

Osnat: 28:46

Yeah, i'm not sure if I'm agreeing on the timeline. I do think that it is the process that you learn, there's trust and then you start contributing. I hope that it's something that is cyclical and it happens all the time, right Like that. in every single moment, you learn, you build trust and you provide value. There is another great book called The First 90 Days, and in that book, you basically need to start creating value in the first 90 days, right? And then there's a whole way of how you do that and how you choose what you want to do first, and so I think that, yes, that there are stages, but I'm sure that the timeline needs to be different than what you described.

Daniela: 29:32

But those are the steps.

Osnat: 29:33

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I do think that with time you need to do all of them, all the time.

Daniela: 29:40

And how long do you think is right to stay in a place?

Osnat: 29:43

There's a quote that I like that says change the changeable, accept the unchangeable and remove yourself when it's unacceptable. As long as you feel that you grow, as long as you feel that the environment is supportive and good for your growth and for your mental state, then you should stay. There are a lot of people who consult with me today. It's like, okay, i'm like this organization is not for me and I want to leave, and I actually challenge them to check what exactly are they looking for, because there's no perfect workplace. If anybody thinks that there is, there isn't. Even the most perfect workplace still has bad days And I think that we need to really learn to identify bad days versus bad workplace. Definitely, if it is toxic environment and it's something that you can't fix, then remove yourself from that organization. But as long as you feel that you grow, learning and that you bring to the table as much as you get, then you should stay. You should definitely stay.

Osnat: 30:48

I had someone that was asking me. I got this feedback from my boss when I asked them to be promoted. A year past and now I'm still not promoted. I think that this organization is not supporting me and I should leave. And I challenged her because she actually got the feedback. It's actually. They told her why they're not promoting her And my question was what did you do with that feedback?

Osnat: 31:13

It's very rare actually that managers give you honest feedback versus get scared when you don't perform and they need to tell you something. That is not that pleasant. It's human nature that people don't like to give you the bad news, and so I told her what did you do with that feedback? And she's like well, it's my nature, but they told you that this is what blocks you from being promoted. So unless you're going to take that feedback and understand this is what blocks you, unless you remove it, then of course they won't promote you. It's not the workplace that is wrong, it's not your manager that is wrong. But what you can say is say hey, i heard that feedback and I don't know what to do with it. Can you help me?

Osnat: 31:59

And actually, a new workplace will not help you to grow. An old workplace where you have the credit, where you spent the time when they know that you're a good performer And from time to time you also are not a great performer But that workplace has more chances to invest in you. So I told her you should go back to your manager and say, hey, i've done the best I can with my own skills and my own knowledge, but I think that in order to really remove this thing that blocks me from being promoted, i need a mentor, i need a coach, i need a course, i need something, and it's probably you're still there despite that feedback. Then they'll probably give it to you, then make a decision After you've grown, after you've changed, and after you do that, maybe you will get promoted. They never said no, they just gave you a feedback.

Osnat: 32:50

And I think that people need to go back to this mode of being super open and honest with their managers and with their workplace of what would make them do their best work. It's OK that once you've done your best work and you've gotten promoted and it's a great workplace, but you don't feel that you can grow further to move next. But I always challenge the people to go to the existing workplace and see if there's anything else that you can get to do and get the experience to do, because that credit is something that is super valuable and it doesn't exist in a new organization yet.

Daniela: 33:34

Yes, it is a very good story. Thank you for bringing that example. The most important thing is the people around you. If you feel that your manager supports you, wants you to learn because you have to give as well, then I think that it is a good place. And the problem is what you said that no managers really want to tell you the truth. There are sometimes these little things that they cannot really point to exactly, but there is something that is telling you because maybe they don't know, they're worried about difficult conversation, they don't care enough. Finding a mentor in companies is difficult.

Osnat: 34:08

Absolutely, and I think people just really need to take responsibilities around their personal growth. If you feel that something is blocking you from moving forward, then ask for help. It's OK to ask your manager, but if your manager is struggling, they're peers, there's HR, there's your boss's boss. Just try to come with an open mind and say I'm looking to grow And what can I do in order to grow? Hopefully, you're in this type of organization that will give you that answer. Here's what you can do in order to grow. But I do think that we need to take personal responsibility and say here's what I think would help me to grow.

Osnat: 34:48

Yes, of course, a lot of the times and I had that experience where people on my team come and say, ok, i'm moving to the next job, and I said, wait, wait, i didn't know that you're not happy Once we started working on. Ok, what are you missing? What are you getting in the new workplace? I said, well, i can give that, i can do that. And I had people on my team say you know what, so I'm staying.

Osnat: 35:13

But that conversation doesn't need to come only when you move to the next job. Constantly be responsible for your personal growth and come to your manager and say this is what I need, this is what I want to do, this is how I can grow, and let them think as well, like do you think you know? ask a question, do you think that you have other ideas for me to grow here? I would like to do more here. I would like to be promoted. And then I think that that openness is key to us being happy in our career and feeling content and feeling that we spend a good amount of time in a good place.

Daniela: 35:48

Yes, yes, thank you. So you moved to a different company, and then what happened? What was?

Osnat: 35:54

that. Well, the other organization was very, very different in a way that I didn't come to manage an existing team. I actually needed to build a team and needed to hire. So it came with its new challenges, which, you know, i liked that I could do that. I built a new team. I built a new organization. I had a different focus. It was a different type of company.

Osnat: 36:16

I love that too, and I think that what is important really, you know, regardless of what we do in our career, is that we constantly grow and we constantly feel that it's a place that nourishes us and helps us, you know, be happy generally, and so I'm constantly in that pursuit of, okay, what is that place that will use my skills for their growth and that I can grow with it. And that's why I actually think that starting from scratch needs to be a mindset and a skill that we own, because I ended my book updating of what I'm doing today, but it's not the last thing I'm going to do. It's like I'm probably going to change this as well. Change is coming my way, so it doesn't stop. Of course, it's something that we constantly need to learn to do and have the right mindset, the right network and the right information and knowledge to allow ourselves to grow.

Daniela: 37:11

And one of the chapters of your book you write on how to build your board. Yes, You're a director of directors, do you always had one? How did it start I?

Osnat: 37:21

always had someone the first person who was my mentor. I met when I was a teenager and we are still connected. He actually wrote the forward for my book. I felt that it would be a very appropriate closure to me, knowing him for so many years, and for him advising me about my career and my starting from scratch. But I think surrounding ourselves with people that and we talked about it that know something more than we do in whatever aspect that we're trying to close the gap on is where we can grow, and to have access to people that can support our career growth and our personal growth is vital is work as well.

Osnat: 38:14

It's something that you constantly need to look for those type of people. You need to nourish that relationship, you need to learn to give back and you need to also learn when to activate them. So I did mention, for example, that one of my advisors is my ex-boss, but I also know what he brings to our conversation when we connect, and what he brings is brutally honest, actionable feedback. I have other people in my advisory network that think I'm the best thing they've ever worked with, and it might be true and it might not, but sometimes you also need that When I'm down, i talk to those people so that they prepare me to talk to the other ones, and I think that really having these different people in your network that you can activate, but also knowing what you need, is that key to properly facing changes.

Osnat: 39:14

There are those people that are experienced and are able to tell you. Here's what I would do when this comes my way, or here are the things that I did when something similar to what you're experiencing happened, and it allows you to learn from their experience, versus experiencing everything yourself, cause I don't believe we need to experience everything. We can learn from other people's failures, we can learn from their advice, we can learn from their mistakes, and then we can avoid them. So it is important to surround yourself with honest people that are open to helping you learn from them.

Daniela: 39:55

And so how many people are on your board?

Osnat: 39:58

Well, i think it changes. There are certain people that are with me for many, many years Probably about four of them are with me for many years And others I probably activate when I need to. Some of them might know, and probably after reading my book, they know exactly what their role in my life is. I make sure that I give back. I make sure that I stay in touch. I make sure that I don't contact them only when I need things. It's a relationship. It's something that you need to nurture, to growing your network and the people that you know. But also come prepared. Come prepared with what is your ask. Don't waste people's time. Be generous with yours. Ask questions of how you can help as well and give back, and that's how relationships are being built.

Daniela: 40:46

Yes, that's very well said, osna. I believe too that it is a relationship that wouldn't have to cultivate. We have to give as much as we receive. What is the new you? Is there such a thing Well?

Osnat: 40:59

until the next time, probably. I constantly learn. I constantly put time to be bigger and better. I constantly invest in my personal growth and knowing new things. Work hard to be mentally strong, because when we face changes, that's one of the things that can break you. So I take care of myself and I make sure to be in the right mindset when I start working on things. We need to be kind to ourselves Very much like we would give a really good advice to a friend. be our own advisors and take care of our mind and our souls, because the workplace is a challenging place And the mindset.

Daniela: 41:42

what about your daughters? Are you teaching them this? Can you see that one daughter has this mindset and the other one has a different mindset?

Osnat: 41:50

So first, of all, having two very opinionated, strong girls is one of the things I'm very proud of. They know me as a career woman and they know that career is important to me and they know that, in addition to being their mother and a wife and a friend, something that is very big in my life is my career. When I can I bring them to work. They spend time working in my business as well, like they. For example, when I was selling my initial pre-order for my book, they were wrapping the books and they came with me to the post office and they were carrying the books.

Osnat: 42:31

So they understand that work is not just a paycheck. They understand that there is time and investment and effort that is put into it. I know that. They see it, i know that they understand it And I hope that they learn from me that the journey has a lot of ups and downs and it's not just it's perfect and mom has a job. You know, sometimes mom has bad days at work, but she prevails and moves on and she still has a job and that's an important skill that they have.

Daniela: 43:07

I heard that one of the secrets of successful people is that when they have a setback that it's okay to feel bad, How fast do you overcome that obstacle? How fast do you bounce back?

Osnat: 43:19

Catherine Parsons. She's quoted in my book. She specifically talks about failure being a stepping stone, like just another stone on your journey. So you skip that stone and you move on, and as long as that's part of your journey, it's good. But don't let that journey stop there, like don't be discouraged.

Daniela: 43:39

That is so true. We grew up learning that mistakes are a bad thing, and, in fact, they are learning opportunities and opportunities for growth, and we need those moments. Yes, what are you doing now, osnath? So?

Osnat: 43:54

I'm doing so many things. So I work as a chief product officer at several ventures, so I help launch products and change strategies. And I work in a different company. I actually do a whole reorg, a restructure for the group to make them better, and so I do that. But I also do a lot of talks around my book. I do workshops with my book. I'm working on a course right now. Really I'm busy and I'm doing multiple things And I think that as long as that makes me happy, then this is what I'll do, until one of them will not be as accurate for me and I'll change it, start from scratch and move on.

Daniela: 44:39

Wonderful. When did you decided to write this book? What happened?

Osnat: 44:43

Well, I think that a book was already in me and I know enough authors today that I know that each one of them had a book in them. I didn't know what I'm going to write about and this one was born out of this mission of better workplaces. Frankly, it was my husband who said you know, you need to write a book. When will you write a book? And me, coming from I mentioned when I was 14, I was writing back then. So writing is something I always done, even if it was like a journaling or something that helps me put my thoughts together. So writing is not something that is hard for me, but I definitely had my husband, serving as an advisor at that time, saying you know, I think that you need to put your theory into writings. You know, sometimes we need a push and I needed that. Probably He is, I want to say, the last push. I needed to create a book, but it was definitely in my mind for many years before.

Daniela: 45:42

Great, you had a theory for many, many years, yeah.

Osnat: 45:45

Yeah, definitely, and also it's something that happened to me multiple times, right Like I didn't come to it after I've experienced change once, and the people stories that are mentioned in my book have also went through multiple changes in their lifetime, so I think that it merited, you know, to be featured in a book Wonderful.

Daniela: 46:07

Wonderful. You have the book and then now you're going to, you're working towards an audible, an audible and a course. No, I remember the first time we spoke you, also to be a speaker.

Osnat: 46:17

I do talks at organizations before and after they do restructure And sometimes I do it kind of more inspirational talks. but I also work with teams after change to recover the team, to build trust, to build that communication, to teach them to build personal board of directors within the company.

Daniela: 46:39

So now you're not working for a company, you're working on your own company. Yeah, yeah, i am.

Osnat: 46:44

So now you are a consultant, a writer and author, yes, a speaker, a mom, a course developer Yeah, having a very rich career, and I think that it's something that all of us should have have multiple things that we work on, because, you know, when we have bad days in one side of the house, can another place of the house be working well.

Daniela: 47:11

That is a very good point. Thank you, Osnat. Thank you so much for all these nuggets of wisdom and this wonderful conversation. Thank you, i hope you enjoyed today's episode. I am Daniela and you were listening to, because Everyone Has a Story. Please take five seconds right now and think of somebody in your life that may enjoy what you just heard of, someone that has a story to be shared and preserved. When you think of that person, shoot them a text with the link of this podcast. This would allow the ordinary magic to go further. Join me next time for another story conversation. Thank you for listening. Hasta pronto.