Sharing Stories, Making Choices, and Finding Healing on the Journey of Personal Growth - Marsha Vanwynsberghe : 117

Have you ever felt the profound impact of a shared story? In our latest episode, we journey with our brave guest, Marsha Vanwynsberghe, as she recounts her struggles with teen substance abuse and the shame it carries. She shares her healing path, illustrating the transformative power of personal narratives. We reflect on the importance of owning our choices and how shared experiences can profoundly affect us and those around us.

Marsha is a Storytelling Business Coach, Speaker, Multi-Published Author, and Podcaster. She teaches the power of Radical Responsibility and Owning Your Choices in your own life. She empowers people to heal and own their stories, be conscious leaders and build platform businesses that create massive impact.

Marsha illuminates the significance of sharing personal growth stories with great sensitivity, especially when it involves addiction struggles. She emphasizes the importance of integrity and the delicate balance needed when applying loved ones in these narratives. We also explore how connection is fundamentally about shared emotions and experiences rather than the specifics of our stories. We talk about the vital role of vulnerability, boundaries, and respect in sharing personal narratives.

Finally, we touch on the importance of seeking support and actionable solutions when dealing with a loved one's addiction. We share our personal experiences, discussing the challenges of finding the right support group and counsellor. We highlight the shift from a victim mindset to one of ownership and responsibility, emphasizing the power of focusing on "what" instead of "why" when grappling with difficult situations. Listen for a thought-provoking conversation that underscores the power of sharing personal narratives, changing our stories, and respecting others' boundaries.
Let's enjoy her story!

To connect with Marsha, https://www.marshavanw.com/

Transcript

Daniela SM: 0:08

Hi, I'm Daniela. Welcome to my podcast, because everyone has a story, the place to give ordinary people, stories, the chance to be shared and preserved. Our stories become the language of connections. Let's enjoy it, connect and relate, because everyone has a story Welcome. My guest today is

Daniela SM: 0:35

, a storytelling business coach, speaker, author and podcaster.

Daniela SM: 0:41

I had such a great time chatting with Marsha. She had this incredible energy that was just contagious. It is always so much fun to meet people who share your values, and Marcia was definitely one of those people. She had some really great insights to share. We discussed the power of radical responsibility and owning your choices in your life. She shares her healing journey and how connections are fundamentally about sharing emotions and experiences rather than the specific details of our story, and that was a very, very good point that I enjoyed. Marsha also emphasized the importance of vulnerability and setting boundaries when sharing personal stories. According to her, it is all about shifting from victim mindset to one of ownership and responsibility and focusing and listen to these on what instead of why. That can really help us dealing with difficult situations. I enjoyed the point of view here and I hope you enjoyed too. Her podcast is called On your Choices and On your Life, and her book calls why she Stopped Asking why. So let's enjoy her story. Welcome Marsha to the show.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 1:57

I've been looking forward to this.

Daniela SM: 1:59

Yes, me too. And well, you are a fellow podcaster and super popular, so thank you for being here. I'm thrilled to be here. What is the name of ?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 2:08

It is called On your Choices On your Life, and we are just shy of episode 600 right now. We've recorded past 600, but we've released 591.

Daniela SM: 2:18

Wow, yes. So let's to note that you put four episodes a week, which is way more than the usual.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 2:25

It is three to four. Typically it's three, as we were just joking in the sense that I have so many interviews banked that it's like we've got to get them out, and so we're working at four a week right now, and then we'll go back to three a week.

Daniela SM: 2:37

Yes, great, great. I know you have a compelling story, a wonderful story, so tell me why you want to share it and why you keep sharing it.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 2:46

I stumbled into the power of sharing stories. When I was a parent, probably about 12 years ago, we were dealing with teen substance abuse. It was suffocating, it was very isolating and it was riddled with shame, which I did not fully understand at the time. What shame was Knowing now that shame loves secrecy? And so the more you keep things secret and shoved down, then the more the story takes control and it only leaves you feeling more and more isolated. So over time, through a lot of work and a lot of support, I found myself speaking in really small groups. Every time I spoke in a small group, somebody would stop me and say that's my story, but I've never told a soul, and the amount of people that I was meeting who had kept very similar stories secret for decades, absolutely blew me away. I was blown away. It's like what is happening here. I mean, none of us are alone in our stories and in our struggles, but we think that we are because we don't like to talk about the difficult things in life, and so I slowly started to share my story.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 3:56

A bunch of things happened. I found people who could resonate and connect with the message. I learned how to release shame. I started to heal. I found a bigger purpose and mission for the story and I really hit a point of learning that my story was just the experiences that I had walked through and the lessons that I've learned. It wasn't my identity. I thought my story was my story was my identity. I thought that I was the parent who had failed, who had struggled and failed. My kids failed. Everything had met with all kinds of criticism and I made that me.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 4:36

And it wasn't until I hit a point that it was like, as I started to share it, I was like, oh, no, no, no, my story has made me who I am, and those are two very different things. The reason we sit in shame so much is because we make that story mean that it's us. That's our identity and through the process of sharing I really did learn how to heal. I found so many people that resonate with the message and I found a much bigger purpose and I just continued on that path. So I started sharing my first time probably in 2015. And then 2016,. It was bigger stages and three collaborative books in 2017. It was my solo book and my podcast launch. So it's really been a process of almost eight, nine years of doing this work of sharing. I know how much has changed my life, and I see so many other people experiencing the same experiences, the motions of learning that their story does not have to define who they are, it's just a part of them.

Daniela SM: 5:35

Well, that is a wonderful point that you said that your story doesn't define who you are. It's not your identity, and I'm sure that people think that that's fascinating. So thank you for bringing that up. You're welcome.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 5:47

Everybody does think that that's actually one of. I just ran a masterclass last week and that was that question was probably asked three times. This is my identity and I'm like it's your identity because you're letting it be your identity. Yes, not, because it is actually.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 5:59

We can sometimes believe what other people are saying to us. I did hear you know that we had failed, that I was a terrible parent, that I had done and all it means. All of these messages and I believe them for a really long time, until it got to a point that it's like wait, this is just not serving anyone to believe this. I think, at the end of the day I mean, most people would agree parenting is like literally the hardest job on the planet. It's not all butterflies and rainbows and sunshine.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 6:26

I think that we're all doing the best that we can with the situation that we have, and that was what I really had to come down to is, you know, did I give it everything that I could during those years? And I did like I? There was just no rocks that I didn't turn over, so it had to come to a point. That and I think I've used this many other times in my life is that you know. We have to accept that we're doing the best that we can with the information that we have today. Tomorrow I might have different information, but today this is the information that I have.

Daniela SM: 6:56

Yes, yes, and things change all the time, as we know for so many subjects, so we have to be moving and flowing with the time and changing as well. When does your story start exactly? So we know that, you know you started to share it nine years ago, but when does your story start?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 7:14

I think my story started right back from when I was a kid. To be honest, I believe this is part of why I've resonated with your podcast and title so much is because I really do believe everyone has a story. I believe we have hundreds of stories and I look back to that young version of me. You know, navigating life in the 70s definitely was a strong-willed, fighter-type personality.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 7:40

Kid probably considered outspoken too much and at the same time, I grew up in a time where it was not okay to talk about difficult things, Like we never shared anything. When we were younger it was like literally you fake it, you put the smile on and you say life is fine. And so that's what I grew up with. And when this started to happen took some changes and growth on my part to recognize that, like the reason we're in this position is because we're all behaving this way, we're all acting like no one else is struggling or no one else is having a hard time. I feel like my story has been evolving, changing, growing, I mean, since I was born and we all have hundreds of stories, Like I have body stories and relationship stories and business stories, and so we all have stories.

Daniela SM: 8:29

Yes, that's true, that's true. And you know, some people have stories with struggles and some people have stories without the struggles, and I think the people that don't have to struggle sometimes feel that they have to struggle to learn, or we worry that, okay, well, I haven't struggled and so is that something is coming. But it's not true. I mean, some people can just go through life without any issues, really so, but then yours is about your kids. So how is that? Can you tell us a little more about that?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 9:00

Yeah, definitely. When we went through this, like my kids were young and we started to experience teen substance abuse, I mean by that, it wasn't if it was experimentation, that was only experimentation for a very short time. It was literally here and it never left, and so that was our experience with it. It came into our life and never went away. It didn't take long before it started to spill into every single aspect of their lives and our lives. You know, school, work, sports, job, family, like it just interfered and affected everything.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 9:35

It wasn't as simple as just a story that. You know, eventually they outgrew. It was messy, it was really really messy and in those years, you know, we just thought to try and keep them alive, keep ourselves alive, keep a job, not lose a house. You know, you, when you're navigating things like this, it's very chaotic, and chaotic is really hard time to get your footing in life, because it's just, you know, we, I think we went a couple years no joke with very little sleep. It was just complete chaos.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 10:11

We tried to do the best that we could during those times, but as I got to a space of wanting to share my story, I didn't know how to do it, because I always wanted to leave my kids in the integrity. I never wanted to just come out and talk all about what they were going through and what life was like. I really wanted to be able to share from a mom's perspective of what do you do, or Persons perspective, what do you do when your life plan doesn't go according to plan. And that's literally what it was that my plan right.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 10:40

We all walk into this life thinking we've got this plan of what it's gonna look like, how it's gonna unfold, and it never does go according to plan. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's more challenging, but it doesn't go according to plan. The point is is how do we show up when things go off course? How do we take care of ourselves? How do we navigate those challenging times? And that's really what I started to share was what do you do as a parent when the plan doesn't go according to plan?

Daniela SM: 11:10

yes, and it's hard what you saying, because the story Isn't really yours but it is yours because you are going through it and it's you know. It's the same as somebody who is sick or somebody who has a mental illness. That is not maybe you, but you're leaving with a person and it's affecting you and somehow people usually don't think about the person, who is the same as the caregiver. People don't think about their caregiver but is affecting the other person. So how do you tell the story without really involving the person who is actually affecting your life?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 11:46

to and that is probably the number one question I always get is how do you do it? How do you leave people integrity, how do you share a story and be respectful to everyone? It took some time to learn how to do it. It really did take some time to learn how to do it. I didn't get it right every single time. I can 100% admit that. I just kept learning.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 12:05

I heard Lisa Nichols speak years ago fantastic speaker. I heard her in person and she said is there anyone here who wants to learn how to share a difficult story but you don't know how to do it and leave everyone integrity? And I'm like are you serious? That's exactly what I want to learn. And I heard her say you should always be able to share, as if the people that you are speaking about are in the room with you. You cannot control what, how they react or what they say, but you can always choose to control how you lead yourself, like how do you speak, and that was one of the first things I started to adopt.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 12:40

The other thing is recognizing that you know what not everything has to be shared. Most people who don't know me think that I share a tremendous amount about my kids, but all I've said is we dealt with substance abuse. That's literally all I've said, all I've said. People who know me know that I haven't shared a whole lot of details, and you don't have to, because the details don't matter. What matters is you know how can you share what you've learned, what you've walked through, because nothing affects anybody in isolation, like anytime you're dealing with substance abuse, mental health, any kind of addiction, like any kind of illness, their family diseases, like it affects the family in so many different ways, and so I think it's incredibly important that you learn how to share a story and always leave people integrity.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 13:31

And so when I decided to write my book in 2017, I mean, I dedicated my book to my boys, because they actually did change me as a person. They helped me to grow, become a different person. I am grateful for that, because the older version of me, the one who, taking away back to the stories as the kid who was the perfectionist, working hard, always burning out, trying to like micromanage every single detail in the house, she was never going to survive like I, was never going to survive with that mentality. So learning how to let go of what isn't mine, to control it 100%, was taught to me about my kids, and so I actually do dedicate the growth and change that I've had to them. I think that's really powerful because that's helped to rebuild our relationships with them. I mean, they're incredible young men. They've done incredible things with their life and they know that I am out here sharing, leaving them in integrity and really just trying to do something good with the most difficult experience we've ever walked through.

Daniela SM: 14:37

Yes, and helping other parents who wouldn't have the tools of the knowledge that you already have.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 14:42

No, they, they don't. And I mean, when I go think back to when I first started to share, the reason I decided to share was because I was on Google every night looking for answers. I couldn't find any. And I was like I couldn't find any. And because when you can't find answers or you can't find anybody who has a similar story to you, you automatically assume there's something wrong with you. You assume it must just be me, because no one else is fighting with this, no one else is struggling with this.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 15:09

And it wasn't until my counselor recommended that I look for maybe a Facebook group. At that time Could I find other moms who are dealing with this? Because when you have these kinds of issues and problems that you have to deal with, problems and stories like you don't want to just go shout them out on the internet. You're trying to find support. And so I found a Facebook group for moms. And when I opened up that Facebook group and got accepted in the invite, I mean, the very first thing I saw was there was over 100,000 moms in it and I just sat there and I went, wow, like this is obviously not just me. And that was a very important turning point, moment of recognizing how big this problem was. But we had, you know, hundreds of thousands of moms suffering in silence Because nobody felt comfortable to openly share the struggles that they're walking through.

Daniela SM: 15:57

And Marsha, one thing that I forgot to mention before, when you said that how to keep it with integrity is to assume that they are in the room when you're sharing the story and thinking that you will say. This is why I feel when or how is it that you tell the story? Assuming that they're there, because you could tell the story assuming that they're there, but it doesn't mean that you're saying it right.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 16:17

No, and I think that when I think back to my very first experiences of sharing it, I would imagine that they were in the room and I would say you know, I was a parent who was struggling dealing with teen substance abuse. During those years I was navigating, fighting with schools and police and counselors and doctors and trying to find a way, like frantically turning over every rock, trying to find a way to get them help. I had to break down completely to learn that that help had to start with me first. I had to take care of me first and that's a really hard lesson for moms. I mean I say that was so much love, but I mean I think we can all agree that's a really hard lesson to make yourself a priority and take care of yourself first. And that's really how I spoke and shared as if they were in the room. And the other piece being that if I couldn't share a part of the story without completely breaking down or without feeling like I was sharing too much or putting too much details out there, then those parts weren't meant to be shared. And I think that's the freedom piece I want people to know is when you're sharing a story If you really don't have to share as much as what you think you do, because even if you've never walked in my shoes, you would be able to relate and say that would be really hard as a parent, that would be frustrating, that would be like I don't know what I would do.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 17:37

Like we relate as humans. We relate on emotions and experiences and connections. That's what we relate on. We don't relate on the details of the story and I think that was a really big piece because I had a lot of people. Actually, it was my assumption that I was only going to be connecting with people who had walked through my story. I couldn't have been further from the truth, like it really couldn't have been further from the truth. I still get messages from people who say I lost my parent. Your book helped me to navigate this. My I went through a nasty divorce. This helped me because I could connect to the emotions of what you were saying and I think that's another reason. Like if we come back to even the title of your show, like everybody has a story, I think our stories actually connect us. I think they connect us, they make us more relatable, they are helping us to reach out and support each other, and so hiding in them isn't serving anybody. It's actually not serving anybody, and it only keeps us stuck in shame even more.

Daniela SM: 18:38

And also what you're saying is through the details, too many details. That's why people sometimes stop listening or even want to hear, because there's so many details that you can't connect. And I has had these experiences. I have a couple of friends that went through different hardship. When they tell you so many details, you just can't. You can't assimilate all that. It's difficult. So I'm glad that you mentioned that because I don't think people will notice that. People think maybe the details is what everybody needs.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 19:06

I actually thought that too in the beginning. I thought I needed the details, but I didn't. And I mean, there's only a couple people in my life who actually know the details. There really isn't a lot of people.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 19:16

There were times when, in the beginning, my husband, I would be talking to somebody and something would come up and we would say something and you would catch the reaction of the other person. It's like, oh, that was an overshare. Sorry, I didn't mean to. Like I, what our normal was, most people would never understand. Like my husband, I still have moments where it's like, can you believe? This is what we walk through, this is what we deal with? And so we had to learn vulnerability is not oversharing. Vulnerability is about ourselves. It is not about pouring out all of the details of the story, because it's just, this is really not appropriate and it's not what the point is and there's no way to do that and leave people in integrity.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 19:57

And I can really see in the space of the online space right now when some people are navigating, learning what vulnerability is, and sometimes I see it and it's like, oh, that is not it Oversharing, and if you're over sharing so much, what happens? So, if I'm having this conversation with you right now, daniel, you're in a space that you can connect and relate to, like my emotions. You can see them, you can feel them, so we have a connection. If I go into the details, that feels so heavy and big and and almost pull you down and I leave that conversation. You're sitting here, going like I don't know what to do with that, like that's a very heavy energy. That's not vulnerability. You want to learn how to share, so that you're almost I don't want to say lifting people up but you're never bringing them down, in a sense, and that's that doesn't serve a purpose for anybody.

Daniela SM: 20:52

Yes, and that's super interesting. It seems like it's an art that you have to learn to. It's not just like I'm gonna be vulnerable and open. Myself is actually. You need to know the boundaries, so I like it.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 21:04

Oh, I love that you said this, so here's and this is not my quote, this is Brunner Brown Vulnerability without boundaries is manipulative, and that is one of my favorite quote I need you were gonna mention her, I would, but vulnerability without boundaries is manipulative.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 21:19

That actually really does put into perspective, because there are some times it's like, oh, that's a it's. You might not realize it, but if there's no boundaries in what you're sharing, it is manipulative and that's not helpful for anybody. So, referring to that, I'm glad that you did. That's essentially like I said. There's only a few people in my life who know all of the story and I will. I will not share more than that and they are like my lifelong People that I know there's not. It's not a problem for me to share.

Daniela SM: 21:47

Yes, and it's not like it wouldn't be a problem, for example, for you to sharing to me. But I mean, like you said, what would I do with that? I know you, maybe we have a really good connection, but I really can't really help you, so too much is not worth it. So, yes, you do have to really know how to do this boundaries and it takes practice.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 22:08

Like I said, I didn't get it like, I promise you, I did not get it right and I had to learn how to do it and so I really just started to take inventory of you know what felt right and how. How do I know if it was the right way to share? And so, at the end of the day, a lot. I mean, I've been on so many different podcasts and I still rarely do I share any specific details. The other bernie Brown quote right, people have to earn the right to hear the story. What I mean by that is is that I can still share parts of the story. There have been a couple of times where I've actually spoken in like a parent support group, an addiction Counseling program, as a keynote for something very different audience. They're coming to me because they are actually Physically walking in my shoes. They will get different parts of my story Because they're trying to find a way out, they're trying to find a way through the story.

Daniela SM: 23:02

So it's very different and another thing I wanted to mention too is that you said you're sharing like they were in the room, and I find it that maybe someday I mean I'm sure they have been in the room I have a kid who is neurodiverse, which I really like that word these days. I mean, you know he was little, so he doesn't know what we went through as parents or what I went through as a mom, any traumas that could have come out of it. I got them. He didn't, because he was playing and he's just been him.

Daniela SM: 23:31

I said to him I'm grateful for all the things that I learned from you. He didn't, he wouldn't know it unless you share the challenges that you failed and and the things that you have to learn and All the battles you go through. So so I feel like, is it another perspective? Because, yes, your kids had their own experience, but then you have yours, and I guess sharing is is also between each other. He's also understanding the other person and what you went through right, because otherwise you only know your side.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 24:00

Oh, so good, that's, it's so important, and we tend to only know our side right. We do tend to, unless we are able to put ourselves in someone else's shoes Like this also means that as a parent, I mean I've openly said to my kids I made mistakes, absolutely guarantee I made mistakes. I made them with the best intention. You did not come with a manual and even if you did come with a manual, there was no manual written before we walked through not one. But I did my best and I know I made mistakes, but I did them all for the right reasons, because I was always trying to save them. That's the mentality is I was literally it's one thing to raise your kids, it's another to try and save them and that's all my mind was stuck on was trying to save them and what they were walking through.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 24:44

And so we've had, through the work of learning how to share my story, I've learned how to heal, always healing right, just so everyone knows we're never done healing like we're. It's a journey and it's and it's a continuous Journey for us. But as I've done that, I've learned how to heal, which has allowed me to have different conversations with my kids that I probably wouldn't have had if I Hadn't come from that space. I got a lot of people say to me like you're gonna make them apologize when they get older, aren't you, for what they put you through? And I'm like, no, that's not what old me might have said, yes, but I had to learn that it's like does that really matter? Because at the end of the day they've openly said many times it's like wow, what we put you through, like what we put you through, and I'm like yep, it was a doozy, it was a doozy. But you know what. We're here and I'm grateful that we've done that work, because if we hadn't done that work, we probably wouldn't have much of a relationship either.

Daniela SM: 25:41

Well, they also have their own path to walk. So I don't, I don't, I don't agree about them apologizing, but I don't either.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 25:49

No, yeah, they. They do have their own journey to walk, and you know what it was actually that was. Another key turning point was when a counselor said to me like I'm looking at my, my little checklist, I've done everything you've asked. I'm so proud, like I'm like a student going, but I did everything you said. And we still have the problem. And I remember the counselor saying, because it's not your problem to solve, if this is their journey, and I'm like how can this be their journey? Why would they want this? And and it's like I don't know, but that's, this is their journey, like this is theirs to figure out.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 26:19

And that leads a little bit to the one thing I think is really important as parents is that I Say this with love we cannot own all of their wins and not own all of their losses to. We have to let them take that and they have to have that. When I mean by that is that you know my son said the one day that you know you really did help me as I got myself back and I went back to school, and I'm like we might have been a source of support, but I don't want you to ever forget you are the one that got yourself back. You went to school. You did this like you did that. I need you to own that. I'm freaking proud of you, but I need you to own it because it's not my win, it's your win and that's and I think that's actually really important.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 27:06

We have this very weird culture where how our kids doing life is a badge of honor of how good of a parent that did I was I and I don't agree with that personally, because I think that I mean, we don't share the same brain. We don't. We have different brains and they make different choices and we can't control that. And so I'm in a space where it's a had to come to, a space of recognizing and saying, like, that's your choice, your choices are leading in this direction. If you want a different life, you can have to make different choices. And when they did make different choices, it's like good for you, be proud of yourself, because it should be there with.

Daniela SM: 27:42

We can't take all that from that. Yes, and I appreciate that. You said that that's what we talked in the past. Or all the sun graduated this year, and then everybody's like well done, you have done a great job. And I'm like I didn't graduate, it was him. I left him a message and he's all. If it wasn't for you, mom, and I'm like absolutely not, this is you doing this? Exactly what you said. I said we were here to support you, but it is your whole win. I don't know why people keep blaming it. To me, it will be good, it will be good, and if they were bad, that now will be my fault too, obviously, according to you.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 28:19

Yes, exactly people. Yes, seriously, it's so good and everything that you're saying, part of it being like the generation that we own, that if our kids have had Success and it's interesting because I actually think that you know, and I've had friends, we've said it For what we had to walk through his parents I'm proud that we didn't quit our kids. I'm proud that we did our part and didn't quit on them. We've all done our job, as best as we could with what we had.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 28:51

I have so many friends say to me like it's when it comes to their choices that they make, or their partners or the things that they're doing, and saying you know, this is just terrible because they've chosen this or they're doing this and I'm like, you know it's funny like when our kids are younger and I don't know, I'm not the only one we walk in having all these beautiful expectations of what we want for them and their life and we do it from a space of love. I do believe that we do. And then there comes a point, especially as you're like navigating teens and navigating different experiences and challenges there literally came a point where I'm like, if they are happy and healthy, I am good, I am good, like that's literally my expectations went down to they're happy, healthy and they're alive we're good is true.

Daniela SM: 29:35

I mean, at the end, this is what we're looking for, me, I. Am we not pursuing Happiness all the time and there's no titles, there's no toys, there's not having money is just actually been happy, and so If they can learn a sooner, yes, then they have to waste time. Yes, I couldn't agree more I really couldn't agree more and marcher going back to the same.

Daniela SM: 29:57

You said that you found a group and again it's interesting that you and I didn't go through the same situation. But we relate, I guess because we're parents or because we are people and we all have a story. You find a group and then you see all these amount of moms. Sometimes I find that groups are just an area for people to wind more and is not necessarily a positive environment, and this happens with grief and all kind of stuff. So that's why I shy away from that. But I feel that sometimes you do need the village, but I mean you have to really difficult to find the right village I'm so glad that you said that because I think you hit something there.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 30:36

When I found the group, the facebook group, it was a moment where I went okay, hundred thousand moms apparently I'm not the only one and it didn't take long before I knew that I couldn't be in that group every day. And going back to what we talked about earlier, the energy and the vulnerability was very much a space of anger, resentment. I it's a victim mindset and I don't judge that. I spent most of my life in that, but it's a space there of like so much anger and resentment that this is my life and I could feel myself. I'm like I hear I am actively looking for solutions and I would go check the comments in the group and I'm like, oh, I feel terrible, like I do, I can't, this is not what I need right now, and so I didn't spend time there.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 31:18

And many people had said you know, did you go to alinon, like any kind of program to support families dealing with addiction? I think my husband and I know joke. I think we probably went to five or six different ones. Everyone we went into again, not a judgment, just I really want to share this part is that everyone we went into was full of people who were navigating the emotions of dealing with a parent who was that with addiction twenty, thirty, forty years ago. And I remember sitting in the room and thinking I do not want to be this in thirty years, like I do not want to be in this space, this angry, holding onto this For twenty, thirty years. And I remember stopping one of the organizers of the alinon and I like has this group helping you? And I actually it's not, like this is not. Where do we go to navigate like current lifetime, like right now Situations, because I don't want to be doing this twenty, thirty years from now. I want to know how to deal with this now, because this is my life now. And so we kept trying. We kept trying to find places to go and for us, a parent support group for teens was one of the best places that we want to learn the most in that group. But that was probably like our fifth, six, seventh place that we tried. So keep going and keep trying the same with counselors.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 32:39

I probably went through four or five different counselors and I remember saying again, this is just me, but I remember sitting on the chair and going okay, I'm actually living in chaos. I don't want to just sit here and talk. I need actionable solutions. What can I do? And I wasn't getting that and I don't get referred to a crisis counselor the best thing I ever found because my sessions were fifteen minutes and they were all had a navigate crisis and they helped me tremendously. And so I share this that if you can't find what you're looking for, keep looking. I keep looking to keep asking. Don't judge it, as this isn't for me, because there are so many different tools. I've learned even now. There's so many different tools and resources available and they're rocks. You keep turning them over like not this rock, not this rock, what's the next one? What can I find? Until I found something that could support us in navigating, because we might as well are very action oriented. We're like what do we do to navigate this?

Daniela SM: 33:36

because this is happening in real time in our life yeah, I call it is like dating for anything really You're dating until you find the right person for everything actually marches, not only for counseling. So many things that you have to find the right person and you have to try and try. Yes, I'm glad you mentioned that because I heard a lot and I think it's maybe certain type of people that we want to have Solutions. We wanna hear. You know if I'm listening to a podcast or I like to move it to.

Daniela SM: 34:05

Okay, here's a problem. I don't want to know all the details on how this happens. Just give me what do I have to do about it and I just move forward to that because I that's what is interesting to me. I don't want to do well on the problem, find a solution and move on. Same here, like what you said, that I don't want to be this old person and be whining about that. I want to learn from it, can grow and be like I don't know, like I don't want to say like an agent of life, but that's kind of like what I feel to say.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 34:34

I think that's exactly, and I mean, you know yourself and you know what support you're looking for and that's what we're looking for. And we also came across a lot of situations where these were parents who are those kids were. You know, my kids at that time were Sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, and we met a lot of parents whose kids were thirty, thirty, five, forty, still at home and they were still fighting this every day and all I was, I just remember, saying not a chance, this is not good, I'm not doing this For twenty years, like it's just not happening. And so how do I navigate this to learn? So I think it's just really being clear and honest with yourself and continue to look and search for answers, because there are answers.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 35:16

It's very naive to think we're the only person in the world who is struggling with this situation. Whichever this situation is, we just tend to look around the people who are in our life right now and think, okay, well, I don't have the support now, or the people in my life right now Don't feel comfortable with me sharing my story because of how it's going to reflect on them and actually our stories and for those people. My story was never meant for my immediate family. My story was never meant for the people in my life then. It was meant for the people that I could reach and connect with and help, because that was the help I was searching for.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 35:53

And I think this is the big piece about stories what you're walking through we judge, like our imperfections. We judge what we're walking through and think that it's not valuable enough, that it's not important enough, when actually, like, those imperfections are exactly the things that can connect us to other people. So many more of us are craving the realness and learning how to share a story and let people see us, because some of the most beautiful relationships I have in my life today they didn't come because everything was going right. They were in my life at a time when they saw me at my most vulnerable and that's how we built the connection and that's the piece of it is like don't stop yourself because of who's in your life today. Your story actually can be for people you haven't met yet.

Daniela SM: 36:40

Yes, that's beautiful. And, Marsha, I assume that you and your husband always had a very good, strong relationship, because I feel that sometimes these kind of challenges could separate people instead of put them together.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 36:53

Yes, we will be celebrating 30 years next month, which I realize that doesn't always mean like I mean, but we do have a good, respectful marriage and we almost lost it a couple of times in those years because it was just a lot to navigate. We kept trying to fix things. I often share this that it wasn't until he started to take care of himself, I started to take care of me, and then you can bring two whole parts together to make it work. If you're bringing two broken parts together that are full of resentment and anger and frustration and trying to fix the egg, it doesn't work. It will never work, and so we are best when we're both working on ourself and you bring your best self forward into the relationship, and that was something that we learned through this journey.

Daniela SM: 37:42

Hmm, that's interesting the challenges that people perhaps don't know that they have to work on themselves first. They just want to fix the situation, think of what I was doing with my kids.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 37:52

I was literally just trying to fix the situation. It's the same thing with a spouse. It's the same thing with parents. Like we spend so much energy trying to fix, manage, control the people when actually that's not what we're supposed to be doing. We're supposed to be putting the energy back on ourselves to lead our best self forward so that we can bring our best self into the relationships that we have.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 38:14

I know that's a little bit of a it feels backwards for some people, like it's not my husband's job for me to take care of myself. It's not, it's not his job. It's my job to lead myself and ask for what I need help with so that I can bring my best self forward. Does it help? And does he like step in and help with things? And you know, absolutely it does. But it requires that I'm a better communicator Because if I come at every single situation with like anger, resentment, frustration, I can tell you it doesn't fix anything and it doesn't work. It requires that I bring my best self forward and then our relationship has a much better chance.

Daniela SM: 38:51

But when you said you take care of yourself, you kind of went in perspective and look at what problems you have, kind of like taking care of yourself without thinking that you have issues outside you know your own, but trying to look at your traumas and any things that were happening to you. Is that what you mean by that?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 39:09

Yes, In a sense that I started to look at like what did I need to be my best self? So blame and ownership sit on the opposite ends of the spectrum. So when I was in victim mindset, I sat in a lot of blame, a lot of anger, a lot of resentment, and nothing will ever change if you only ever sit in blame. When you sit in ownership, that means you take full ownership, radical responsibility for your choices, your decisions, thoughts, actions, everything that you do when you sit in that space. Then that meant that what do I need every day? You know how am I my best self? And that can be as simple as like exercise, rest, time with friends, time by myself, Whatever I need to be my best self, it's my responsibility to give it to myself so that I can bring my best self into the marriage. Does that make sense?

Daniela SM: 40:00

For me. I think that we all are here to take care of ourselves and to learn about ourselves, not to be teaching others. I wish I knew these sooner. Try to encourage my kids to to focus on you, learn your issues and then keep growing. It is interesting what you say yeah, as you work with anger and resentment and of course, it happens because you probably blame somebody else, or why is this happening to me? And and they keep you stuck.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 40:26

It's just those, those thoughts, the victim mindset will just keep you stuck. I mean, I just like you. I wish I would have learned it. Oh my God, years ago I wish I would have learned this, but I didn't. And that's okay. Like we learn it when we're supposed to, and I think that it's powerful when you can sit and go like this is what I've learned. Again, back to identity our stories and our experiences are shaping us into who we are today.

Daniela SM: 40:51

But not everybody has the capability to get out of the victim mindset. You know, not everybody has the capability to realize I can change if I take the power. So I think it's also a personality trait.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 41:04

Yeah, and I and I couldn't agree with you more. And I and I say it completely out of love, in the sense that I can tell you within 30 seconds of talking to somebody if they are a victim of their story or if they are somebody who wants to change their story. When you're stuck in victim mindset, no change will happen there, and so I couldn't agree more. So I named my book. When she stopped asking why and the reason I did that, which I felt, just one second, here they, my publisher was like oh, title's way too long, no one's going to get it. And I'm like I think people will get it. And I decided to stick with it because that was a turning point for me.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 41:38

When I stopped asking why is when my life changed. Every time I asked myself the why question, like what answer would have made it okay for what we were walking through? Like what answer would have made me feel better that, oh, marcia, this is why you're walking through this, because of X, y and D, and I finally got to the space of going okay, the why just doesn't matter. The why matters when you're going towards a goal, but if you're standing in a space looking at your past and asking why. That is never going to give you an answer that is going to make it okay.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 42:09

And so when I asked myself, why constantly because that's all I did in those years is I just shift it on the spot? I'm like, no Marcia, why doesn't matter what? What? What is what matters? Because what is an action word? Action words would move me forward. Action words would change my state. Action words would like change my mindset. And so that's where that came from. And you don't have to be a parent walking through teen substance abuse for that message to land the why. When you ask the why and you only focus on the why, you will never change the story. You will never change the story because you are literally telling the universe that this is my story, poor me, this is where I'm at and this is not fair. Nothing will change automatically. You have to create that change first, and for me, the change started with language. Language was a huge piece of the turning point is asking different questions.

Daniela SM: 43:01

That's interesting because there's a lot of books that say ask for the why or find the why and the why. But when you're saying the what, are you perhaps not focusing too much on people, that too much to win, because now you want to find the what, what can I do? What can I do? But sometimes you really can't do anything anymore.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 43:19

No, and I mean the what actually was not about again how to fix them. The what was how can I change my state in this moment? How can I take care of myself? What boundaries do I need? Like, how do I? What action can I do to help myself in this moment? Because I think it's an important message to share, in the sense that we were living and walking in it.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 43:41

There was nowhere to go, my house was not a safe space, my house was not a peaceful space. Weekends, when people would leave work and go home to relax, they were a nightmare for us. They were the worst time. So there was never a safe space to go. I couldn't change the fact that. They were minors.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 43:58

The only option I had was to get bigger than the problem, get better than I was, so that I could find a way to handle it. And so that's what I mean by asking, like, what did I need and what was important? And it just put me in a space of creating shifts and change. It didn't mean that. You know, I was constantly like what do I have to do next? And doing more Sometimes. What honestly meant sitting in my car in a parking lot for two hours because it was quiet.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 44:26

That could be a what, and so it's like what did I need in order to be my best self? And I just got so curious that every day I would ask myself and eventually, what happened is? It's an interesting loop Because when you do that, you start to recognize that you feel better, you start to notice that, oh, I do actually need that boundary. I do feel better when I take care of myself. I am worthy of taking care of myself, because this is actually like you start to change your story and your self worth story. When you do this, and it is thousands and thousands of tiny steps every single day. It's not one thing that changed it. It's tiny baby steps every single day, repeated over and over, that create the change.

Daniela SM: 45:13

And these actions and behavior helped you to deal with the situation better independently. That is a happy ending or not a happy ending.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 45:23

Exactly, exactly what you said. I couldn't change the story. I changed myself. That changed how I showed up every day in my story, which ultimately changed how I reacted to my everyday situations, which ultimately changed the story. So it did change the story, just not in a direct way.

Daniela SM: 45:42

And have you met another couple like you doing similar to what you have done? They still are in struggle and difficulties with their kids.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 45:51

I would love to say no, but that's not true. I mean, it still breaks my heart. I just actually, even with my book now I still give away multiple copies a month, usually to parents who are struggling. And I just got a message last week and it was like somebody I don't know who said I found your podcast, I was listening to it, I was asking a friend, I don't know what to do. I don't want to navigate. It's good to get advice, it's good to get support and counseling, but there comes a point where we actually do want to hear from somebody who's navigated a very similar journey and know that, like, how do I do that? And so she came by and picked up the book. So it's.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 46:28

I probably get at least a few messages a month from people I've never talked to who are walking that path in a real state of desperation, saying I don't know what to do and I'm like there is not going to be one thing that you can do. There's going to be a number of different things and sometimes the hardest things to do are to do nothing. Like the hardest things to do are to stop trying to fix it, stop trying to change it, stop trying to make others change. They're the hardest things in the world because we're changing our response. It is interesting because I remember somebody saying to me once that when you're doing that, you're showing them that you don't care because you're not fighting for them anymore. You know, I mean, I heard some pretty hurtful advice, but I remember at the time thinking, no, I'm actually choosing me in this process. Like I'm not, I'm not not choosing them, I'm choosing me. And again, if I can choose me, that helps me to show up differently, helps me to handle it differently, which ultimately ends up changing the story.

Daniela SM: 47:29

And Marcia, when you go out, you're in Canada, you're close to Toronto and I'm in Vancouver, so I'm in Canada. In Vancouver there is the highest percentage of mental illness and addictions people in the streets here. When you see people like that, how is your approach? What do you feel? What do you think?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 47:48

I feel, I feel sad and I feel it's hard and I also always remind myself that I never know someone's story. We think we know someone's story by what we see, what we hear, our impression, but every time we are interpreting someone's story it is from our own lens right, it's my own lens that I put on. So I tend to look at those situations every time and I mean it's heartbreaking. It is very heartbreaking because I realize that at some point that could have been my kids and our life could be very different. And it is. It's very sad and I feel like. I feel like, as a country, this is a big thing, but I feel like as a country we are, we are letting people down. I feel like we are letting people down with support that's available.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 48:34

Years ago I was in an event that it changed my life. I was in a women's event. We didn't know what we were doing. We had an event for the day. We were told to get in, to get outside the hotel with no ID we're not allowed to have an ounce of ID no cash, and they took us by limo. So it was very, you know, over the top. They took us by limo.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 48:55

We ended up working in a women's shelter that day and the dichotomy of seeing both sides of it and meeting the people who are running the women's shelter and listening to them saying that you know most of these women in here. They're no different than us. Some of them have degrees, some of them have masters. They're literally like we're all literally one or two decisions away from having a very different life, and that opened me up to seeing things from a very different lens and a different perspective, because we don't know someone's story. We think that we do. We have no idea the struggles that people are working through. But when that event finished, we had an hour to get back to our hotel. We had to raise money, we had to beg our way to get back and the teams that had the most donations were matched and they gave money to the shelter. So to be in a space of you know you're taking a limo to this event it's like all over the top. It feels amazing working in the shelter for a day and then having to pedal your way home and see life from the other side.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 50:01

That was one of the biggest eye opening moments I have ever had and I can tell you something that surprised me from it. The people who helped us were not the people who I thought would help us. The people who I thought would help us never did. You really don't know who is like, you just really don't know. But that experience taught me that every single person has a story. We have no idea what it is, knowing that there are so many people that need our help. They don't need our judgment and they don't need our judgment, and our judgment comes from our lens, with our glasses and our experience. It has nothing to do with that person. We have no idea what they have walked through to get to there. We could all continue to be better humans and judge less and know that there are many people walking through a lot of struggles, every single day.

Daniela SM: 50:49

Yes, I mean people that judge. I think is ignorance Easy to criticize, but how is it? What is their story? What happened to them? Right, and you know, the other day I actually thought of you because we went to the movies and it was this beautiful, has a beautiful skin, and he was on the floor sleeping because he was passed out, but I was thinking, god, he could be our kids. Of course I'm not judging, but I find what can I do? It really left me with such a sadness. What am I doing Because you can help him? I mean, he's not, he only can help himself. Right, and in the podcast I have had a lot of people that tell me the story similar, but they have happy endings, right, yes, but there is a lot of people that I know or not a lot, but a few people that I know that there is no happy ending that does. This is their journey.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 51:38

Addiction wears a lot of different faces, Like mental illness wears a lot of different faces. It's definitely not. It's not like a very straight, clear line as to who is struggling, and again, I don't think we are. I think that sometimes it hurts to see it because I wish I could do more. I know that even just the podcast is a great space for people to share stories and are choosing to do something good with their stories. So the more we can put stories out there, the more we can talk about them, the more we can normalize them. You know we're going to start to change the conversation, and I think we're already changing the conversation, because you know it's back when I started the podcast.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 52:16

I wanted to start the show because nobody was talking about difficult stories. Everywhere I went, life was very curated, Social media was very curated, Everything looked perfect, Nobody was talking about struggles, and I just thought you know, we've got to start to change this narrative Now, like back then, I had a really hard time in the beginning trying to find guests. Now I have zero issue finding guests. Yes, Like there are so many people who have walked through incredible stories, and so I think one of the things we can do and you're doing it now is creating platforms where we are sharing stories, because it's we are normalizing that some people are walking through incredibly difficult times and they found ways to get to the other side, so it is possible. So I think I think this is something incredibly important that we're doing.

Daniela SM: 53:03

Yes, so we are having the stories of those people that crossed the other side and the other people that didn't cross it. It's just the only thing that we can give them is no judgment.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 53:13

Yes, I think no judgment and I still think space, because I do actually have people who I've interviewed who have lost family members to addiction and they've created a foundation, they've created and done something. They're trying to do something good with their story. So I think that you'll see it on both sides of it. But I also feel like less judgment and knowing that I always say you think you know someone's story. You, I promise you have no idea. I saw a reel the other day and the audio was just so good and I might not get it exactly right, but it was that my social media is social, my private life is private. They're not the same and I was like, oh, that's interesting. So it just means you don't have to share everything and please don't feel like you have to and don't put that pressure on yourself, because, as I share, there's a lot of things that we're walking through right now, but I don't share that because it's actually not my story to share.

Daniela SM: 54:06

Yes, wonderful, wonderful. So, Marsha, thank you so much for telling your story but not really telling your story and having a wonderful conversation. I love the nuggets that you have given us because it makes us richer, and I appreciate it. Without telling the stories, we have learned a lot from you.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe: 54:26

I love that. Thank you so much for having me, Daniela, and I'm happy that that spoke to you Just shows people what's possible. You can change your story and you do not have to share it all. Yes, wonderful.

Daniela SM: 54:37

Thank you. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I am Daniela and you were listening to, because everyone has a story. Please take five seconds right now and think of somebody in your life that may enjoy what you just heard, or someone that has a story to be shared and preserved. When you think of that person, shoot them a text with the link of this podcast. This would allow the ordinary magic to go further. Join me next time for another story conversation. Thank you for listening. Hasta pronto.