The True Essence of Masculinity in Today's World

Are traditional notions of masculinity limiting your potential for personal growth and emotional connection?

How can embracing vulnerability and empathy redefine what it means to be a man in today's world?

In this enlightening episode of the "me&my health up" podcast, host Anthony Hartcher is joined by executive coach Jake Fishbein to explore the evolving landscape of masculinity. As society's understanding of gender roles continues to shift, men are increasingly challenged to balance traditional masculine traits with a newfound need for emotional openness and empathy. This episode delves into how men can navigate these changes to embrace a more authentic version of themselves.


Discover the crucial role of vulnerability and authenticity in redefining masculinity. Learn about the importance of fostering deep male friendships for emotional and mental well-being, and how these relationships counter the competitive dynamics often seen in male interactions. Gain insights into how a balanced approach to strength and empathy can enhance personal relationships, workplace dynamics, and societal engagement.

Tune in to this episode of me&my health up for an engaging and thought-provoking discussion on redefining masculinity, and discover how men can become their best selves in a world that is rapidly changing.


About Jake Fishbein:
Expertise: Specializes in decision-making coaching for individuals and teams.
Focus: Advocates learning about self, choices, and creating change.
Men's Coaching: Passionate about guiding men towards authenticity and vulnerability.
Men's Group Work: Co-facilitates The Arena Men’s Group and is writing a related novel.
Credentials: Certified by iPEC, accredited by ICF, and an ACE Certified Coach.
Training: Trained with renowned coaches David Peterson and David Goldsmith.
Career Background: Former publicist, general manager, and co-founder/COO in various industries.
Education: History graduate from Kenyon College, with track & field records.


Connect with Jake Fishbein:
Website: https://www.jakefishbein.com/
Email: jake@jakefishbein.com
Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thecoachjake
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecoachjake/
Medium: https://medium.com/@thecoachjake

About me&my health up & Anthony Hartcher

me&my health up seeks to enhance and enlighten the well-being of others. Host Anthony Hartcher is the CEO of me&my health up which provides holistic health solutions using food as medicine, combined with a holistic, balanced, lifestyle approach. Anthony holds three bachelor's degrees in Complementary Medicine; Nutrition and Dietetic Medicine; and Chemical Engineering.

Podcast Disclaimer
Any information, advice, opinions or statements within it do not constitute medical, health care or other professional advice, and are provided for general information purposes only. All care is taken in the preparation of the information in this Podcast. [Connected Wellness Pty Ltd] operating under the brand of “me&my health up”..click here for more

Transcript

Anthony Hartcher: 0:08

Welcome back to another insightful episode of me&my health up. I'm your host, Anthony Hartcher. I'm a clinical nutritionist and lifestyle medicine specialist. The purpose of this podcast is to enhance and enlighten your well being. And today on the show I have an executive coach called coach Jake. Yes, coach Jake is an executive coach and facilitator, and he helps both men and women to be their best selves. In particular, today, we're talking about men, we're talking about a conversation that is probably not have much today, and it's around how men are functioning in today's world. And how can men be their authentic selves be their best versions of themselves. So Jake shares some terrific insights as to where men are at, what they can do about it, and how they can excel. So buckle up and tune in to this episode with Coach Jake , welcome on the me&my health up podcast. How are you coach, Jake?

Jake Fishbein: 1:12

I'm good. Anthony, how about yourself?

Anthony Hartcher: 1:15

Ah! fantastic. So great to have you on the show, I'm really looking forward to exploring men's health and well being you're obviously writing a book or about to publish a book in this area. So I'm keen to explore this subject with you as a, you know, executive coach and facilitator. Obviously, you have a men's group called the arena, men's group, you've been heavily involved with supporting men. So as much as I've had a lot of supporting episodes around women's health and well being excited to have you on the show to talk about men's health and well being.

Jake Fishbein: 1:50

Well, I am excited to be here and excited to go where this conversation goes.

Anthony Hartcher: 1:56

Fantastic. Well, there's the trivial question that the me and my health listeners are very familiar with. And it's how you arrived at what you're doing today?

Jake Fishbein: 2:04

It's a great question, and definitely a winding path. Although I'd like to And so what is it about working with men that you truly dearly love? say when I look back at who I've been for much of my life, it's right in line with, with what I do today, actually ran across my Dvar Torah, which is a speech that boys give it their bar mitzvahs. And I read it a couple of years ago, and I realised, Oh, crap, I could have written this this year, except my grammar and writing would have been a little bit better, but the topic was the same. So that's the preamble to how I got involved in in men's work and coaching and facilitation. But I fell into this by happenstance, about eight years ago, a friend of a friend of a friend, recommended I do a series of workshops and work with an executive coach, because I was really lost and stuck in my career. And what I wanted to do, I was 24. And the workshops changed the way I looked at the world. And the executive coach became my mentor. And about eight years ago, actually, eight years ago, this February, in February 2016, my mentor, Nick Papadopoulos, who had run men's groups, for that point, for about 10 years, he came to me, and he asked if I wanted to write a book with him, because he's not a writer, and I am. And he wanted to write a book about a men's group. And I got tingles up and down my spine. And I said, Yes, let's do it. Let's write it as a novel. And realise at that moment that if I'm going to write a book about a men's group, I should probably be in a men's group. And so I joined a group, the dudes of disruption, which I've been in for the past almost eight years that Nick runs. And that set me on this course, to being in the group, our weekly meetings, writing four or five drafts of this novel about a fictional men's group, transitioning from the music industry, which I was working in at the time, to coaching and facilitation full time five years ago. And here I am doing the work that, like I said, I could have been doing when I was 13 years old, except in a bunch of different capacity and never thought I would work specifically with men, of course, my one on one and corporate work, I work with women as well. And in the group sphere, it's men's groups, which I dearly love. Men are really special. And I don't think we see that a lot or talk about that a lot. But when men come together and support each other, and love each other, and hold each other accountable, and share deeply with one another, it's a really beautiful thing. And the friendships are really beautiful. I'm really lucky to in the men's group that I run, three of my best friends are in the group. One of my friends who I've known since we were six, he's a member of the group and another friend from college is in the group. And actually my first ever coaching client, who I worked with for four years, he's in the group too. And just seeing these people that I care about deeply change and transform and grow as human beings with my help. I mean, but they're the ones doing the work. It's really special and And I think that it's so special just to have more meaningful deep relationships with men, and to see men have those relationships with one another, which I think is pretty rare in our world today.

Anthony Hartcher: 5:14

And what do you think that is Rare?

Jake Fishbein: 5:15

So many different reasons, Anthony, so many different reasons. I know, here in the United States, I'm in New York City, that I don't think there's an emphasis on healthy male friendships, that as teenagers, we're not taught how to be friends, with men with other boys, it's highly competitive, there's a lot of one upping, there's a lot of putting each other down, because we're all changing and don't know what's going on. And there's not a healthy role model all the time for what healthy male friendship looks like. There's a lot of ribbing each other, and not a lot of supporting each other. And I remember going to college. And when I was a freshman in college, I looked up to one of the seniors and I thought he had it all figured out. And when I was a senior four years later, I realised, wow, I was looking up to this older boy, expecting him to teach me how to be a man. And it wasn't a man yet. And thanks, so many boys learn how to be men from older boys, who are trying to capture what it means to be a man without knowing what it means to be a man. And so we end up in a world where men don't share with one another, where men don't ask for help from one another, or men put each other down, where men joke with each other, but don't talk about the serious things. And where men once they get married, end up losing their friends, and adopting their partner's friends, instead of maintaining their own relationships. And it's no wonder that there's been a lot of research lately that men are particularly in their 30s and 40s. And 50s. report having very few close friends. And that's one of the reasons why men's groups are so important, is because when men do support each other, so much more as possible, than if they go at it alone.

Anthony Hartcher: 7:03

And you mentioned the importance of having a role model so that you can learn as to what a male does, or what is a man. And so what is it that makes it so important to have that role model? Because I'm thinking, in today's world, there's a lot of broken families, you know, not saying there's anything wrong with that there is and there's a lot of children growing up with mothers. And, you know, I guess the father is not having equal caring rights or equal duties or whatever that may be. So, yeah, just share as to why is it so important that kids growing up or even young male adult have a role model to look up to?

Jake Fishbein: 7:47

Well, I think it's the distinction is healthy role models, because there are role models out there. And I'm sure you're familiar with Andrew Tate, who I don't read a lot of or watch his content. But he's become a role model for many young men, because they don't have those role models. So inherently, as a young person, you're going to seek out someone to emulate someone to idolise. And when you have a healthy role model, I was very lucky, I had great healthy male role models growing up my father is, I mean, he's a great man and I had great teachers in high school and an incredible college track coach, that I saw what it means to be a man and healthy expression of healthy masculinity. And it gave me such a different foundation than someone growing up growing up in a in a broken home. And like you said, nothing's wrong with that. But it does have an impact. And the impact can be looking elsewhere for role models to fill that void. And it's easy to find role models that don't speak to healthy masculinity, would speak to dominance and speak to aggression, versus some of the foundational characteristics that I believe makes for healthy masculinity.

Anthony Hartcher: 9:00

And you know, my next question, what are those characteristics that make healthy masculinity?

Jake Fishbein: 9:06

For me, it comes down to being honorable, and it's something we talk about in our men's group A lot is What does it mean to be honorable to be in your relationships honorably, to leave your relationships honorably. And for me, being honorable means being a man of integrity, keeping your word, also owning when you make mistakes, because it's impossible to always keep your word and never be out of integrity. It means someone who's willing to share and be vulnerable, someone with deep empathy and compassion, but also someone who is strong willed and firm and what they believe that this this balance between being rigid and firm, and also flexible and soft, that I think it's so important to have beliefs, but also to be able to listen generously. And for me that It's really what healthy masculinity is being honorable is, is being able to be present, to be loving, to be kind, to be powerful to be unstoppable, all within the same container.

Anthony Hartcher: 10:11

So what I'm hearing is essentially owning both sides of being a human really isn't it like so we, we do have a tough side, even females have a tough hard side to them. And they have a softer side, and, you know, the empathetic side, and, and so to males, and I think you're right in terms of that stigma and stereotype, male image, you know, unhealthy male image, which is just that harsh, hard determines competitive side of men,

Jake Fishbein: 10:40

Exactly, which can be really beautiful in the right circumstances, and can be very problematic. And others, I think, for example, those characteristics get in the way of healthy relationships, they get in the way of intimacy, they're great for driving results, fantastic for driving results. So it's that balance. And I often say in my work and the work, Nick and I do together and co-facilitating the arena and writing our book, because it ultimately we're doing human work, that we're out here trying to inspire people to be better humans, we happen to do it with men, but ultimately, being honorable as applicable, whether you're a man or a woman, that these characteristics we all have access to, even if we express them a little differently.

Anthony Hartcher: 11:21

Yeah, absolutely and I can see that sort of translating to where women are, at the moment in terms of asserting their dominance and getting equality and seeking equal rights is that they're having to showcase that other hard side to them, and make that the predominant side of them, and I'm thinking in time, then it's going to they're going to experience this, you know, I guess area that male have been, you know, men have been stuck in is very much that hardened side of them, and then having to then show that they've got another side to them, that they're not just one sided human beings. And I'm thinking it's possibly where, you know, it's not, you know, I'm generalizing here, but you know, women that are really competitive in the workplace and the workforce, you know, going up the corporate ladder, they're doing what men did previously, in terms of getting super competitive and, you know, rubbing shoulders and sharing that real competitive side to move up the corporate ladder and to be heard and seeing. And I'm thinking, well, obviously, you know, females are trying to find their style of doing it. And they're probably bringing in a bit more of the feminine side, which is that empathetic side that you're showing. But again, there's probably another side of women that we're seeing in this rise of women to the top.

Jake Fishbein: 12:39

Absolutely, and I know from working with a lot of women clients, in my one on one work in corporate work that it's tremendously challenging, because oftentimes, a woman who is approaching a situation like a man is not judged as a man would be judged. And so there's this challenge of how to assert themselves in a powerful way, without being judged differently than a man would. And it's incredibly hard. And we're in a really interesting point, inside, I mean, all spheres of life. But I think work in particular, I run some programs with a great women's coach out of Boston named Kim Meninger. And we run a program called Building a Better Workplace, which brings men and women together to talk about what's our experience in the workplace? What are the experience of weave? What are the experiences a man that I've had of not feeling psychologically safe, and likewise as a woman, because it breaks down those barriers, and I think everybody is so siloed. And I know I speak with a lot of women who just believe men have it all together. And the really confident men are, are over confident, and have no challenges. And I've worked with countless men who suffer from imposter syndrome, who don't think they're good enough, who struggled to self advocate for themselves, and that there is misunderstanding inside these broad generalities. And it's so important to just hear another person's experience as an individual versus our assumptions about their gender.

Anthony Hartcher: 14:08

Very true. And I guess, you know, in terms of this conversation, it's very much embracing the whole and embracing the person for who they are, which is leading to that question around authenticity. So what is authenticity? And obviously, you know, in these executive, I guess, coaching roles, you're often encouraging people to lead with awesome, you know, be authentic, you know, authentic leaders. So, what is authenticity to you?

Jake Fishbein: 14:36

For me, it's a feeling. It's not something that can be readily defined. I think it is being yourself. It's being honest. But at the core, I know when I'm not being authentic, I feel misaligned. And I think authenticity is staying in that alignment. It's not never being misaligned because that's impossible. And there are plenty of opportunities where you're going to be I have been, I still am inauthentic at times. But I'd like to tell a story, which is, before I got into this work, whenever someone asked if I'd seen Pulp Fiction or talked about a scene, I'd say that I did and lie about it. And I never seen the movie. And to this day, I've only watched about half of it, and I didn't like it. But I used to lie about that. I used to pretend I had seen a movie I'd never seen, to be liked to fit in, to feel included. And authenticity has become just being honest about not having seen it. And knowing that the people who like me are gonna like me for who I am, versus who I pretend to be. And there's a line in my book, I see if I can remember it, because it's a great line, which is, oh, man, I can't remember it exactly. And I wrote it. But oh, there's no difference between, I can't remember. But it has something to do with, there's no difference between pretending to be something and not being something and what we pretend to be isn't true. That who we are as who we are. And people tend to know and, and have a feeling of we're not being who we are. We have a saying in our group, which is people are gonna judge you anyway. So you might as well be yourself. And I'll say one more thing, before I close talking about this topic around authenticity, I have a lot of conversations around dating in the world. I live in New York City where it's not a fun place to date. Luckily, I'm in a great relationship with a wonderful woman right now that I really, really enjoying. And it's going really well and fills me with a lot of joy. But I know, before that, and many years ago, I used to date and cared more about someone liking me than me liking them. And I see so often in the dating world, people worrying about being liked, and am I doing something to turn another person off. And well, we always can do those things. What I've seen time and time, again, is that when you meet someone who really likes you for who you are, those things don't matter. And then if we're trying to be liked by other people, we're not being authentic. If someone doesn't like me for who I am, they're probably not my person. And that goes for any relationship, whether it's business or romantic or friendship, that not everybody is going to like me, and that's okay. Because there are plenty of people who will as well.

Anthony Hartcher: 17:26

So many great points, you said there, Jake, and particularly around being yourself, then, if you'll be yourself, because you're the only view then you will stand out just being yourself. So there's no pretending you don't need to pretend by just being your authentic self, you'll just stand out because there's no one else like you. And so I really like how you lead with that, you know, being yourself. And if you're not yourself, then people don't know who you are. So they don't know who to like, how can they tell if you're putting on the search aids and mask and pretending to be someone else, then they don't know who they're actually liking. And I like the the other point in terms around that likability is if you're trying to be liked, and that means you're trying to be a one sided being and and we can only hold that illusion for a certain amount of time, and then the other side just emerges, it's so it's a bit foolish to thinking that you can fool someone into just being one sided and just, you know, have that those characteristics that they like, but your true self has both sides. And inevitably, over time, they're going to see both sides come out, you won't be able to mask it forever. So really good points that you raised there. And where I'd like to take this conversation now is how can men be more authentic given? Like so you mentioned the importance of them showing that softer side and being comfortable of opening up and being vulnerable and being empathetic? So how can men break this stigma around just being strong and tough and competitive? And, you know, just, you know, just always flipping off at one another and putting each other there? All that sort of stuff? So how can they just embrace their true authentic self and allow that other softer side that vulnerable or Open up, so what are your tips around that?

Jake Fishbein: 19:15

Well, join a men's group, I think it's a great place to start. But all kidding aside, what it begins with is connecting to the cost of not owning who you are, of not being authentic, that one of my mentors, I remember him saying that people change because of three reasons. And this is a model. So it's not true across the board, like anything, but people change because they either connect to the cost of their action. So they connect with oh, if I keep doing this, it's going to cost me this. They commit to something bigger than themselves. For example, having a child or starting a business, or becoming a coach, or writing a book or something like that, where tragedy strikes and they find them selves having lost something that really matters to them. And unfortunately, a lot of the men who I seem to see come to this work tragedy strikes in some way. Now, it may not be the intense tragedy, it may just be enough to have them connect to the cost of that of not letting go of that rigid behavior. And I think that's really the place to start is to think about, if you're a man who's focused on achievement, or if you're a man who's just focused on soft skills, it is about a balance, it's not one being better than the other. But finding that authentic balance for yourself. What's the cost of maintaining living the way you are, that if you don't change anything, what will happen in a year, or five years, or 10 years, and some people have a really hard time thinking about that it requires really connecting to your impact in the world. And I know that men who come to our groups, they reach a point where either they want connection, they want to meet new people, they want deeper friendships, their partners are nagging them, and requesting they do more work. They're realizing that they don't have any intimate relationships, they've been so focused on their careers or achievement, that they're not actually happy with the lives they've created. So they're all reaching some place of recognizing the cost of living the way they are. And I think that's really important. And it's easy, as I'm saying this to think people might just be listening and hearing well, how can you there's always a cost, I think there is always a cost, that cost isn't always negative. But there's always a cost. And whether you're balanced or imbalanced, whether you're hyper focused on achievement are hyper focused on empathy, there's a cost to being who you are just like you, Anthony, and for me, there's a cost for continuing the behaviors that we have. And so there's a constant opportunity to assess what is the cost of my actions, sometimes the cost isn't great enough to make a change. But I think that when the cost is great enough, when you see a breakdown in your relationships, and actually believe that's probably the biggest places, for men who really want to change, it's focusing on their relationships versus their achievement. Because at the end of the day, what we're left with are our relationships. The people who will remember us are the people we were in relationship with, I heard a great quote recently that says, the only people who will remember you working late at the office, or your family. And I think that's really profound. Because when we make the shift to focusing on our relationships, versus our achievement, or our self worth, versus our achievement, begins to shift what we focus on and prioritise. And I think that's what leads men and can lead men to reevaluating who they want to be, versus being who they think they need to be

Anthony Hartcher: 23:02

Incredible points you raised there. And I'm thinking, you know, on that point of relationships, one of the key things to developing deeper relationships is expressing openness and vulnerability, showcasing your vulnerability. And so it's often just dropping that male masquerade or the, you know, the masculinity, and how do you recommend males to go about just having more open discussions showing expressing vulnerability, because some of it is they hold back because they don't feel safe to and you know, there's a bit of, you know, yeah, it is, and hence, the, the men's groups are fantastic forums, because you create that, that safety net for them to, to be open and vulnerable. So, but I just, you know, for the listeners that aren't involved in a men's group and wanting to create stronger relationships, what are your tips?

Jake Fishbein: 23:56

So first, one opportunity is actually to reframe it. And I love doing this, which is reframe vulnerability as being brave, that it takes great bravery and courage and strength to be vulnerable. And those bravery, strength and courage, I think are all things men really aspired to be. So reframe vulnerability and opening up as these highly masculine qualities. So that's the first step. But where I'd begin is if you're not in a men's group, find another safe place, find a safe relationship. If it has to be with a woman, start with a woman. Now a lot of men are more comfortable sharing vulnerably with women, so I would encourage you find the man who you feel safe with. Maybe it's your father, maybe it's your brother, maybe it's your best friend. Maybe it's just your colleague at work, who you feel a deep connection with. And just start with the conversation of saying, Hey, I'd like to hang out and get to know you better, just that because that in and of itself is vulnerable. My experience is that our world says that vulnerability is sharing our deep secrets, it's crying, which it is, it's both of those things. But vulnerability in my mind is anytime you make a choice where you don't know what the outcome is going to be, that's what vulnerability is. So vulnerability is asking someone to hang out, it's telling someone, I want to have a closer relationship with you. It's sharing your favorite music with that person. I always talk about one of my best friends that our relationship changed. And we spent two years alternating, choosing a different album each week for us to listen to, that that was how we connected. And there are so many ways to be vulnerable. And if you're not comfortable going and sharing your secrets right away, start with those less scary versions of vulnerability that let's hang out to here's my favorite movie, let's watch Pulp Fiction, you've never seen it, for example, to reframe what it means to be vulnerable, and to build up your tolerance for the discomfort. And as Brene Brown talks about the vulnerability, the hangover, that comes after you are vulnerable, which is a very real thing. And anytime I share vulnerably, I oftentimes have that vulnerability hangover of regretting or fearing or thinking I was too much of this or too much of that. And you build up your tolerance to that, in order to have those conversations you really want to have, or that you're really scared to have.

Anthony Hartcher: 26:25

I love it in terms of reframing vulnerability as you're being brave. And absolutely, because you're going into that unknown, that uncertainty and that requires bravery. So, I really like that point you make. The next point I wanted to discuss is around purpose. So you know, traditionally or I guess, you know, primitively or data how far back we want to go, but like men's role was to go out hunt, you know, to get prey to get food, bring it back and to do the the brave things physically brave, okay, physically brave sort of things and take on the tigers and lions and whatnot. And, and I think he obviously we've evolved over time, we don't have those tigers and lions sort of threats. But yeah, man's roles have been to go out and earn money and to bring home money so that, you know, the family's got a shelter. And so it's sort of evolved from that traditional model. And now we're, you know, going into a new phase, which, you know, equal rights and women are going out earning money. And so men are going through a bit of repurposing so to speak or finding, rediscovering what is masculinity. And you know, we did touch on masculinity before. But what have you got to say, around this man, and the man's role in society and just finding what their new role is, and I think men are finding it over time, I mean, time is helping in terms of men are starting to do more household activities, but they still don't do their fair share if you're looking at equality, and other statistics. So I just really wanted to get your take on this.

Jake Fishbein: 27:59

It's a great question. And I've thought about it a lot over the years, because as much as we've evolved, or society has evolved, our brains have not evolved. It hasn't been that long since we were fighting off lions and tigers and bears. So our brains are still programmed for that. But what I would say is we go through this cultural transformation, which is a really good thing is that our roles actually haven't changed, and is to really sink down to take the elevator down five levels, to what was the core purpose of those roles. And I believe as a man, I mean, you can see this for women too. But as a man, one of our core purposes is to create safety. And if you get connected to just creating safety, and being a provider, and provider is one form of creating safety, that if you say my purpose is to create safety, there are so many ways to do that. And those involve fighting off lions and tigers and bears, they involve going to make a lot of money to provide for your family. They also involve creating psychological safety in your home, they mean being an ally, to people in the workplace and in your community. That means speaking up, when someone's spoken down to or treated wrong, that there are so many ways of fulfilling a purpose. And if we really drill down to what is the core purpose, I think providing safety creating safety is one of them as a man, then we have an access point to still do that, that there is an incredible amount of non unsafety in the world, that men are not out there creating safety actually, that we're not fulfilling our purpose. And I think as a society as a world, if men were to really take on my role as a man is to create safety for those around me, men, women, children, the world would be a vastly different place. And that's the opportunity is how do you fulfill that each of us individually, I create safety through the work that I do. I create safe To create the opportunity for people to feel at home, so they can go be courageous and brave. I create safety in my relationships by holding space and being vulnerable. Being vulnerable, by the way, is one way of creating safety, that our core purpose I don't think has changed. But how we get to express it is different today than it was. But that doesn't make it any less valuable or important.

Anthony Hartcher: 30:23

Fantastic points yet again, Jake, I really appreciate your insights today. And I'm sure that the listeners have really been intrigued with what you've had to say and may want to hear more or reach out and connect with you. How can the listeners best connect with you?

Jake Fishbein: 30:37

Absolutely. So the best way to reach me or get connected to me is on my website,

which is https: 30:42

//www.jakefishbein.com/ That's Jakefishbein.com, I have a newsletter, you can sign up for there. It's called The Hungry Reader that goes out, hopefully every week, but not always. And that's where you can hear the most updated news, listen to my musings like today, or just stay up to date with what's going on. You can also reach me jake@jakefishbein.com, I'm almost always on email. Although I am experimenting, not checking my email after six at night and not on the weekends. So you can't reach me then I'm on Instagram at @thecoachjake

https: 31:20

//www.instagram.com/thecoachjake, but be warned, I'm not really on Instagram. I'm not a big fan of social media. But I am on LinkedIn to under Jacob Fishbein. So those are the variety of ways but really the best way again, is either at my email address or signing up for my newsletter.

Anthony Hartcher: 31:34

And to the listeners, I'll include those links in the show notes. So you can go directly to the show notes and click on the link in terms of how you'd like to connect with Jake. And it's so pleasing to hear, Jake, that you're creating self, you know, safe boundaries for your own well being which is fantastic in terms of, you know, not checking email after 6pm. So really great to say that you're walking the talk and a man of integrity. So it really appreciate the conversation we've had today. Very insightful. And I'm sure that listeners of me&my health up have taken a lot of taking a lot of good points away, to think about and to contemplate and obviously to then go and continue to follow your great work that you're you know, sharing around this topic. And when you book going to be published?

Jake Fishbein: 32:19

No firm date on it yet, we're going into final edits, actually, this month, we've got to cut it by a few 1000 words, and then we'll be pitching it to agents later this year, early next year. So hopefully he's gonna be on bookshelves next year, the year after really excited to get it into everyone's hands. early feedback we've gotten from beta readers as it reads like a page turner. And it's all about the impact of honesty, integrity, vulnerability and trust for men on relationships of all kinds. So it's a book that the world needs right now, I believe

Anthony Hartcher: 32:53

Absolutely, and pre release of your book, please reach out to me and we'll have you on again for a pre released I guess, discussion around your book to I guess help with promotion and and to get the message out there. So thanks so much for coming on. Again, Jake. And thank you, me&my health up listeners are really appreciate you following and supporting this work of enhancing and enlightening the well being of others. Please share this episode with others that you think that could benefit in terms of this open discussion I've had with Jake and all his great insights around men and for men to be their authentic selves and how to be their authentic selves. So thank you once again, Jake.

Jake Fishbein: 33:37

Thank you, Anthony. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Anthony Hartcher: 33:39

You're welcome.

Podcast Disclaimer: 33:40

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