Faith, Disruption, and Leadership: A New Era for Christian Entrepreneurs with Scott Fehrenbacher

Most Christian entrepreneurs think faith and innovation are at odds, but Scott  Fehrenbacher shows why disruption may be the most faithful path.

What’s Covered:

• Why servant leadership may be the most disruptive leadership style in today’s business world.
• The danger of “virtuous mediocrity” and how it keeps businesses stuck in outdated models.
• A behind-the-scenes story of Christian media’s resistance to the internet, and what it reveals about today’s AI debate.
• How to reverse engineer your mission to discover if disruption is not only possible but necessary.
• How for-profit faith-based business can be virtuous, the reasons why.

Scott Fehrenbacher is the CEO of Canada’s national Christian radio station, Worship Road Radio. A digital pioneer and disruptive force in the business of faith, Scott served as CEO of Crosswalk.com in Washington DC, the CEO of King’s College in New York City, and served on the board of the Gospel Music Association.  His broad experience provides fresh and compelling perspective on the landscape of faith, media and education in the United States and Canada.

📌Find out more at https://www.worshiproad.com/about  

📚Book mentioned: 

Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone To Take Action by Simon Sinek 

✨The 1:1 Founder Clarity Intensive. The Marketing Coaching Hour is designed for busy small business owners and entrepreneurs. Click here. ✨

 

💛 Thank you for listening in! 😀

P.S. Don’t forget to leave a review! Much appreciated.

Transcript

[00:00:00] We have never had more access to leadership resources in human history, and yet, personally I find it seems like we have an epidemic of bad leadership. We work for the creator of the universe. That to me, brings down a lot of gravity, a lot of responsibility. Why change? Because, because we can. Because we should.

Because we can do better. Right. I have this term I coin called virtuous mediocrity. When you move into business that has eternal dividends instead of financial dividends, it's so hard to go back. My experience is if you ask God to be a partner in that dream and make that dream big enough that he has to intervene for it to be success, then that's where you want to be in life.

[00:01:00]

Priscilla: Welcome to the Entrepreneurs Kitchen Podcast. Today I've got Scott

Faren Backer . Scott is the CEO of Canada's National Christian radio station Worship Road Radio, a digital pioneer and disruptive force in the business of faith. Scott, I'm so excited to have you here because business disruption, Christian Media, we're all for it.

Please let us know what is the mission.

Scott Fehrenbacher: Our mission is very simple, and that is for a person of faith we have a responsibility, perhaps an obligation to share what we believe for those that want to hear it. And of course the way to share it is ultimately impacted by the technology and the tools we have at our disposal to share it.

And [00:02:00] Christian music, which the business I'm in right now, Christian music is a medium that not only supports people of faith. But in this very unstable world and in unstable times research has shown that faith-based music is an important opportunity to calm and peace and look toward hope and look a little less toward all of the noise that the world is bringing us right now.

So that's mission.

Priscilla: Scott, you've been, in various faith-based businesses you've taken the company that's been traded on the NASDAQ and you've been involved in national ministries and higher education. Now in terms of leadership, because you've led at the highest level of these organizations, what do you think is the common thread?

Because people often say, what's the skill I need to have as a business leader? What's the skill I need to develop in myself if I'm gonna lead? I.

Scott Fehrenbacher: Wow, Priscilla, great question and I've just gotta [00:03:00] start the answer by saying we have never had more access to leadership resources in human history, and yet, personally I find it seems like we have an epidemic of bad leadership. And it's very frustrating to me. But to answer your question great leadership is servant leadership.

That is to say that the leader should be very comfortable standing side by side, working with the frontline people to not only understand the business at the very base level, but also. Reflect the fact that just because you're the leader doesn't mean you're not willing to do everything that every one of your employees is charged to do.

And the other part of that, that at least in my experience that's so critical, yet so simple, and that is to have a vision [00:04:00] message. That vision, communicate that vision. So your staff, your employees know. Where we're going, know why we're going there. You have no doubt. Know the book , the why.

Tell people why we're doing what we're doing. What is the impact, the expected outcome of what we're doing. And that's just so important rather than just, yelling at people or dictating activities. And I just I don't understand those leaders. Frankly don't know how they got to be leaders in the first place, but at least for me, my own experience, that's how I would answer that question.

Priscilla: It's interesting that you say, we live in a time where, the books are there, the podcasts are there. The information is hitting you from all sides about what makes a good leader. What? Do you think is happening there? I think everybody desires to be in leadership if they're on a certain career trajectory.

And then [00:05:00] when they get there, what do you think is the missing link.

Scott Fehrenbacher: , Let's both write a book on that because it's certainly worthy of a book. I, in my experience Priscilla I think that pride and arrogance overwhelms. The stewardship and the servant mentality because it can, right? It's very easy for people to surround you that are yes people, because they want to look good in your presence, but you have to have a discerning eye and ear to challenge some of that and say, okay, Adam, do you really mean that?

Let's break this down and let's talk about it. As an example. And I think it's not something that necessarily comes natural, but you have to recognize it, discern it and work at it. And it's very easy to start believing your own press and believing you're an important person.

But clearly it's a matter of the heart as much as a matter [00:06:00] of the intelligence.

Priscilla: That's so true. Immediately it came to me. Verse in the Bible, I dunno where exactly it is, where, the people who are working under King David, they decide to do something to impress him to risk their lives, to impress him. And when they return, they're shocked that he's not happy that's what they did.

He wants to make it very clear, do not ever do that again. And it brings to mind that, people want to impress you and people want, to feel like the leader has a favor with them in some way. And we could write a whole book, like you said, Scott interesting to think about that as people grow in their leadership for yourself.

You said a discerning eyes, that's something that you've cultivated over time I'm thinking of a practical takeaway for the person listening.

Scott Fehrenbacher: A discerning eye would be to challenge yourself first. Okay. And what that means is, let's say I'm in a staff meeting and we're talking about a brand new campaign, but it requires a significant capital [00:07:00] investment. And the people, the vice presidents that are around you say, yeah, let's do this.

Yeah, this is good. You can all of a sudden start thinking, I'm pretty smart everybody agrees with me. But if that's the case, you need to challenge those people. You have to discern. If they're saying this just so that you're pleased or that they're really, they have skin in the game, if you will, that they're invested in this to an extent that they're ready to challenge it as if they had ownership.

And that's such a key part of this is whether you have material ownership or equity as far as money. You need to have ownership with your heart. You need to have ownership with your reputation. And when that ownership is there it's like treating a rental car different than your own car.

You're going to take that extra step and try and discern what the truth [00:08:00] is and not just what's easy, not just what's in your comfort zone. 

Priscilla: So good. I'm so excited to get into, the idea of disruption with you. What did you see in the Christian music media that you said, i'm thinking the thought process, what made you say, okay, something is wrong here, or we need to do something different, because it had been a certain way for forever.

.

Scott Fehrenbacher: I'll use this as a personal example. For me, Christian music has been very important in my faith walk. And for good or bad, disruption and innovation , comes natural to me. Because for me, just consider the fact that a person of faith. Believes that they're doing something meaningful in a way that's more important than the quarterly earning statement, right?

In fact, we work for the creator of the universe, that to me brings down a lot of [00:09:00] gravity, a lot of responsibility that I literally feel, and yet when things just continue to go, as they always have. I don't necessarily respond to that. , As an example.

So Christian Radio, in my experience, over three decades or four decades it's had a successful business model that has allowed it to expand to the extent that it has. But you know what, there are a lot of people, especially here in Canada, and I'm an American citizen. But I've lived in Canada for 10 years.

There are a lot of people in Canada that don't have access to Christian music or Christian radio. They can go to Spotify. But then you get a, who do I pick? I don't know the new songs, I don't know the new artists. And to me we call it democratizing access to Christian music. That's what we're doing by moving the business model out of a long-term terrestrial.

Business [00:10:00] model into a digital format that you can listen to radio in Australia exactly the same time I'm listening to it here in Vancouver with the same clarity and the same quality. And now if you overlay our responsibility to tell the message of the gospel to as many people as we can, why would we not want to do that?

Why would we not want to expand that? But of course what happens is it's Scott, come on. We made our budget last year. This is the way we've always done it. We can have, hours and hours of fundraising marathons, and our listeners seem to go along with it.

So why change? Why change? Because. Because we can. Because we should, because we can do better, right? I have this term I coin called virtuous mediocrity. Not only are some people in our business and then [00:11:00] really the business of faith, not only are they comfortable being mediocre because it is in their comfort zone, but you actually attach a virtue to it.

This is the way we've done it. This is being in the world, but not of the world. That's baloney. So that's my own personal opinion. And, I'm obviously a bit of a black sheep with some boards because I do ask and push for change, push for innovation, push for disruption to be better.

And you think I must be difficult sometimes It's very easy. It's just you have to get outta your comfort zone.

Priscilla: Oh, that's so interesting. , How did I find Christian music? If I didn't belong to a church and heard the song and they knew the song to go look for the song, I would have never found it there. There was a pathway to it. And people listen to different kinds of music because

it's easy to find.

Scott Fehrenbacher: Exactly is, so if you had something of. Tremendous value for your family and [00:12:00] other people. Would you hide it under a rock? No. You'd want to share it. You'd wanna make it as easily accessible as possible. You'd want to tell people about it, and that's really the nature of what we're doing here.

I've been involved in moving ministry into a digital realm for 30 years now. And it's scary to some, it is challenging. It's out of their comfort zone, but I would submit that it is directly in line with what the gospel suggests. We do.

Priscilla: A hundred percent true. You have naturally this mindset that wants to disrupt, but for a lot of people they are okay, like you said, virtuous mediocrity people, okay. With just joining the way things have always been and maintaining the way things have always been.

Now, when you think of an industry you've done this several times now, what do you think? Are you thinking? What can I change? I'm trying to think of like the person who's, [00:13:00] okay, I wanna be disruptive in what I'm doing, but I don't even know how to think in a disruptive way. What am I asking myself when I'm looking at what I'm doing or how am I supposed to look at it?

Scott Fehrenbacher: Okay, so very good question. I was recently the CEO of Habitat for Humanity here. You may be familiar with them. It's a global organization to try and help build housing for those that can't afford it. And I don't think you want to be a disruptor just for disruptor's sake, but if you look at the outcome and we all have a mission.

We all have goals. And you look at that goal or that outcome you want to get and reverse engineer it. Are we getting there the most effective way? The best way? At Habitat for Humanity, my experience, it was clearly not. It was this is what you do. You get a grant here, you ask for donations.

Here we do this, and this is our [00:14:00] formula. That's great. I'm glad the formula works. But let's go out and imagine, let's just imagine if we could build 10 x of homes for the people that need it, then what we're doing now, is that possible? If it is possible, why in the world aren't we doing it?

We have to do it? That's our obligation. And if it's not possible, if we literally find out that, oh. We're at a time tested, true pattern and formula that works. Then you lean into it and you keep doing it. But I've always found that if we have a goal and a destination we want to get to let's reverse engineer , what that looks like, and see is there a better way?

Now, today, Priscilla, as because you're doing your own podcast. 10 years ago, you would've thought how could I possibly do that? But technology has opened these new opportunities and [00:15:00] I was just at this radio owners conference in Orlando, hundreds of radio station owners and there was a gentleman from India that came in to Orlando just to talk about AI

And he only had a 45 minute talk. And he gets on the podium and he asks for a show of hands how many people are using AI at some level to help your efficiency in your operations. And I was maybe one of five people out of the entire conference that raised our hand. And of course, I was literally booed at my table, why would I do that? And so I think that was a, a recent example of. Disruption is right in front of you. Walk through the door and don't circle the wagons. I don't know if that's an Australian term. Don't protect yourself and put up barriers just because you're comfortable.

Priscilla: Because people probably think, oh AI, if I [00:16:00] lean into this, then what does that mean for me? And so they try to, okay, we don't need that. That's an ugly thing, but it's coming anyway.

Scott Fehrenbacher: Yeah. And that's the irony, isn't it? That if you don't embrace it and learn it and know how to use it, it will come for you,

Priscilla: Yeah.

Scott Fehrenbacher: right? The person that didn't know how to use a wheel. Yeah, a long time ago and decided those wheels are stupid. They fell by the wayside and someone decided these wheels are pretty cool.

Priscilla: No that's true. , It's a tough thing. You can't ignore what's happening and you have to figure out how to use what's happening to enhance what you're doing. We just mentioned, disruption, resistance. I'm interested to know, because you've done this a couple of times now, I'm thinking maybe of a story of something that was memorable when you hit that resistance and you're trying to disrupt what's the way forward?

Scott Fehrenbacher: Okay. I love stories. I'm glad you asked the question. So I'll give you a little bit of a story you may know. And I'll just [00:17:00] briefly update it for your listeners. But 25 years ago, I was involved in the first. Global Christian we called 'em a portal at the time, a website, and we were NASDAQ traded.

Our symbol was Amen. And so there's a conference in the states called the National Religious Broadcasters Conference, and they're mostly TV and radio and they give out, an award once a year. The best TV station in the country. The best radio station. We were the inaugural. Winners of the best internet site.

And so I'm there to accept this award right in Nashville. And when the person introduces me, they say who knows if the Internet's even gonna be here next year? This is probably just a fad. And we had just got done watching a video about Billy Graham's ministry and how he used radio and how most people [00:18:00] didn't.

Just thought it was the dumbest idea to put sermons on the radio, but yet, look what happened. And I get up to accept the award respectfully and said did you not just watch this video that was up here? I can assure you the internet is here. If you're scared of it, just lean into it because your ministry depends on it.

So it's not a personal thing. It's your goals. It's what you work every day to accomplish. And you can be comfortable and watch the world move away from you, but especially in the world of faith, then you're really missing your obligation. And so I try and put it back on in that case like I did.

Look, you're not hurting me by saying that, but I'm gonna challenge you. That you need to understand step back, look at a longer perspective, and I think you'll understand that [00:19:00] the disruption's necessary.

Priscilla: That's so true. Think of what COVID did with a lot of churches had to come online , to share , there's so many people who. For whatever reason, will never want to enter into a church building. They are not interested , in religion as they see it. But when that thumbnail pops up on YouTube are willing to have a listen.

And if that is the end goal for people to hear the gospel, then why not be where people can find you.

Scott Fehrenbacher: Think of what that does geographically. For example, my wife, she goes to church twice a week, once our local church, but once a church, she's fallen in love with in Nashville, Tennessee. So it's not taking away from anything, but it's really adding to think about what it means geographically.

, I believe that in Australia, like Canada, there's a lot of areas that are remote.

Priscilla: [00:20:00] Yes.

Scott Fehrenbacher: And because you choose or have to live remotely, does that mean , you shouldn't have access to the Word to sermons and to community? And I remember people saying you can't have community online.

I'll give you a quick story. I know you didn't ask for it, but I think it's an important point between. crosswalk.com, which was the internet site and worship road radio where I am today. I had a stop at what's turned out to be the world's largest Christian university. It's Grand Canyon University in Phoenix, Arizona, and we determined that we needed to democratize access to Christian education because if you live in a remote area, but you still want your master's degree.

Or you want a Bible degree why not have access to that knowledge in this new technology? And people would say, oh, Scott, it's not the [00:21:00] same. It's not the same. Doesn't mean that it's not effective. So here's my point. When we started doing this, it grew to where now there's over 72,000 students online, 30,000 students on campus.

But we had a graduation. And all these people from all over North America showed up for our graduation. And we would see these people who had been working in these discussion groups online with someone from the other side of the country and they'd never met. And they come together and they hug and they go out for pizza and they're like family and so clearly.

You can easily say you can't have community online as an example. You can, it's not the same, but doesn't mean it's bad. It can be just as good in a different way. , I keep getting these examples over and over how the kingdom grows by using technology and [00:22:00] not just digging in our heels.

Priscilla: Now what do you think in terms of ai, because that's one now where people say it's the internet. Times, times, Times. It's good. The impact is gonna be that much bigger. Looking in terms of media and ai because we don't know very much yet.

What do you think looking forward, at least in the near future?

Scott Fehrenbacher: Think of. Almost every medium and technology that we have, every one of them needs barriers. Every one of them needs guidelines. AI probably 10 x of what we've ever had before. But does that mean that there aren't uses for it? Does that mean that it can't help you? So if you understand what it is and you have a responsible policy that uses it correctly,

it's no different than hiring a bad employee who may poison your staff or write something incorrect or blasphemous on your website. You still need that. But [00:23:00] the efficiencies it provides, the access to quick knowledge that it provides is phenomenal. And, are we asking it to be a deity?

No. Are we depending on AI to discern the Bible for us directly? No, but it's just like the internet. Yeah, the internet has pornography on it. That's abysmal. It's terrible. So do we just shut it down? No. I was invited to speak to congressional Committee on the Child Online Protection Act.

25 years ago, and it was very interesting to my right, was the owner of the largest pornography site in the world. To my left was the head of Disney's internet campaign, and we had that discussion. Sure, we can't have an internet without this person next to me that [00:24:00] I abhor. But does that mean that we take God off of it?

Or does that mean , we lean into it more and overcome that? So that's how I see that. And ai, you can't be naive about it. But there's certainly things that we need to understand, but also we need to use, if we're serious about messaging the gospel to as many people as we can.

Priscilla: Absolutely. I think of even cases where people will read the Bible for the first time and it just seems you're reading another language 

Scott Fehrenbacher: Another example. Okay. Real quick. What if I know a person, I won't say who it is, but they copy and paste out of their NIV Bible into an AI driven voice. Tool. And so they simply copy and paste and then they have that tool talk to them and basically just reading back scripture when they go to [00:25:00] bed.

That's fantastic. It's the exact scripture they want at the time they need it. And if they have a soothing voice, reading it back to them, why would we not do something like that?

Priscilla: . That's amazing. It's just, it's an unexplored and there's lots of applications you can see that are really helpful to people. 

Scott Fehrenbacher: Yes.

Priscilla: Fast forward 10 years from now. What does the future of Christian media look like? If your vision here at Worship Road whatever you have in store, what do you think that would look like?

Scott Fehrenbacher: Accessibility and community. Because you remember 25 years ago we had to go to a Christian bookstore to get a book.

To listen to a cassette tape from new music. And our small groups were the only people we really talked to. 'cause you had long distance charges on your phone.

But as technology moves, our access to Christian [00:26:00] knowledge, Christian sermons, Christian podcasts, Christian music is. It is really it's hard to believe, but that will only continue to expand. But also our community , because I've lived around different parts of the country, I have friends that are beyond my small group in my church.

And I think that our communities even become more boundaryless, if that's a word, that will, and of course, look. That can be bad too. We text people and we say things in a text we'd never say in person. So that can be abused as well. But I really think in 10 years , it will be a common thing for us to reach out to anyone even more than it is today in our community of professional community believers.

Sports fans, whatever is just going to be more [00:27:00] transparent.

Priscilla: Wonderful. I'm interested Scott, 'cause now that I see the thread of your career, were you intentional in saying let me not put words in your mouth, . 'cause there seems to be a faith-based element, which is quite unusual for most people that has been continuous throughout your career.

How did that happen?

Scott Fehrenbacher: Years ago , I was a financial analyst a stockbroker, and found success doing that. But then I just had a desire, a passion, a fire in my heart to do something more meaningful. The problem is when you move, at least my experience, and I know others would say the same when you move into.

Business that has eternal dividends instead of financial dividends. It's so hard to go back because again, it's about the why. If you don't find meaning in your work, you're not going to be good at it. And Priscilla, once I moved into [00:28:00] what I, again, call the business of faith, , the Holy Spirit has just overcome me that.

That's my purpose. That's what I have to do. And frankly, I thought that's what I was doing in Habitat for Humanity, but it didn't put air in the sails. And that's why I left Habitat and started Worship Road Media.

Priscilla: Thank you for sharing that. To someone who's listening, who's thinking, as a Christian entrepreneur, sometimes. You think if I continue to go the faith based way, then it means I'm walking away from the actual success of business.

People have those feelings of lots of money's over there, if I go the faith based way and then it means I don't get to the lots of money, and then what's the point of being in business? People think all those kind of things and how will customers receive you if you say you're faith based?

The world. I'm interested to know from your experience, what you would say to that younger version of yourself that is financial analyst, stockbroker and being led in this faith-based [00:29:00] way.

Scott Fehrenbacher: Very good question and I would say there is truth in the fact that had I been CEO of a NASDAQ company that wasn't faith-based, I would've had many different, more stock options and all these other things, but. You soon realize, how do we define success? And if we're defining success in a longer term which I'm talking about eternity, those other things, don't scratch your rich.

But , here's an interesting way to answer that. when I was@crosswalk.com, we're a publicly traded for-profit ministry and that really rubbed a lot to people the wrong way. So I'm given a speech. In Los Angeles and the day before this speech, I went to the offices of a well-known ministry.

Probably shouldn't say the name. So I'm in the reception room of this ministry 'cause I'm going to talk to the president, but I'm waiting for the president and I'm [00:30:00] thinking, this reception area is very nice. I'm in a non-profit area, cherry wood walls, chandeliers, and I'm thinking, okay, I'm the CEO of a publicly traded company.

I don't have any matching furniture in my office. In fact, my office doesn't have a window in it. And you know why? Because we felt that stewardship was more important and , yes, we wanted to make money. The reason we wanted to make money is because our mission was important, and the more money we made, we invested in our mission.

And so the next night, Priscilla, I'm giving this speech and at the end of the speech, you know how people will come up and wait to talk to you. And this wonderful little elderly woman, she reminded me of my mom at the time, and I'm really looking forward to hearing what she has to say.

And she comes up and she puts her finger on my chest. And she says, almost word for word. She said, shame on you. Shame on you. [00:31:00] You are lining the pockets of your shareholders at the expense of God's holy word. And I thought to myself in the hotel room that night, Lord I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that.

And it just occurred to me, you know what? When you say you're nonprofit, that doesn't make you any more virtuous. Than a for-profit. If your mission is a faith mission there's no more virtue in asking for a dollar than earning a dollar. And that was an important thing for me because I sometimes unconsciously felt I have to apologize for being for-profit.

I got rid of that because of that experience, and business is a great. Tool for faith-based organizations if you have the right people and the right mission, because as we know, Priscilla the amount of donations available is a finite amount. And if I'm not sharing in that finite pool, but I can [00:32:00] make my money for my mission outside of that, why isn't that a good thing?

That's always been my perspective. I'm back in a nonprofit today, but I don't feel like I have any kind of virtue higher than those who are not.

Priscilla: Thank you for saying that. You've just, I think, freed a lot of people with that because I see a lot of very, influential people that I know are Christians, and I know they run their businesses in a Christian way, but I think they don't want to have that experience especially now online at mass, of people saying , your business is making money and the gospel.

They don't wanna have to go through that. And so in a way it's, they I dunno what to say. They're not vocal about their

Scott Fehrenbacher: it. Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right.

Priscilla: And I'm glad you said it that way, that how many donations can people get? How many donations can people give? But if you can earn and the outcome is the same and the mission is the [00:33:00] same, then why

Scott Fehrenbacher: You're expanding the kingdom. You're expanding kingdom resources that way.

Priscilla: Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much. I'm interested to know your favorite Christian artist or your favorite Christian to.

Scott Fehrenbacher: wow. Okay. , I've been very fortunate to be on many tours because I sponsor them and it's fascinating, they say that your real character is what you do when no one's watching. And I've been fortunate enough to be in buses when no one is watching these artists and see their real hearts, and it's been very validating to me.

I would say my favorite artist dates me is my good friend Bart Miller and Mercy me, I just think that they have been relevant for three decades. Their movie and song I can only Imagine has impacted the lives of people around the world. But I would tell you my favorite tour was Hillsong United out of Australia.

We [00:34:00] were at Madison Square Garden in New York City. Every seat sold out, and I'm telling you, we had church. It was something that I'll never forget. But there's lots of honorable mentions. We don't have time for that. But to be straightforward and answer your question, that would be my answer.

Priscilla: Being on tour. I think that must be a dream. Thank you so much Scott. It's been a great talk. And to the listeners, please if you can go to worship road.com and if you'd like to learn more about them, worship road.com/about. Please share it with your friends and people who are believers, people who are not believers, because that's part of our sharing the gospel in a little way.

Scott Fehrenbacher: We have free apps that you can download as well, all content Priscilla is consumed through this these days, right? . We need to be a part of that. And so , I'm very fortunate to be doing what I'm doing.

Priscilla: So they can download the app on the app store.

Scott Fehrenbacher: Yep. From Google or Apple, just download the [00:35:00] app and it's always at your fingertips. As long as you have either a cell connection or an internet connection, you can listen to the best of Christian radio without ads and without shareathons. No fundraising.

Priscilla: Ah. Such a dream. Such a dream. That's wonderful. Thank you so much, Scott. Is there anything that maybe I didn't ask that you'd like to speak upon?

Scott Fehrenbacher: How about if I leave with a motto and and that motto that has followed my career in each of these different areas is challenging, but I love it. And that is, have a dream. So big, so audacious. That without the direct intervention of the hand of God, it's automatically doomed to failure.

And what that means is if your dream can be done in your own power, it's really not a dream. It's basically just a goal. But God put us here for a reason, and my [00:36:00] experience is if you ask God to be a partner in that dream and make that dream big enough that he has to intervene for it to be success. Then that's where you want to be in life.

Priscilla: Thank you for the challenge and for the listeners. We've just been challenged. Thank you so much, Scott. It's been a pleasure.

Scott Fehrenbacher: You have a great podcast. Thank you so much, Priscilla.