Letting Go In Challenging Times And What Does Meditation Have To Offer Us?

Finding and following the wisdom inherent in all of us is the greatest gift we can give ourselves and the world. Meditation is the key but what is meditation and how does it aid us to let go? How can meditation helped one navigate any personal crisis? What role has community played in meditation practice? What does meditation have to offer in these challenging times?  Learn this and so much more when The Gentle Yoga Warrior and Neil McKinlay share their wisdom on this matter. Neil McKinlay has spent his adult life studying and practicing embodied meditation. Through this span, he has lead events of 100+ people both in-person and online. He has also been a parent and partner, author, and competitive swim coach. In recent years, 'survivor' has been added to Neil's list of roles and accomplishments as he recovers from a relationship with a dysfunctional spiritual mentor.
These diverse experiences lend Neil's presentation of meditation a unique flavour. Well aware of the challenges and opportunities a full contemporary life poses for meditation practice, he speaks to - and links - the realities of both with candour and freshness.

In addition to offering in-person instruction in Victoria, BC, Neil leads two online communities (The Living Meditation Network and The Online Gatherings) and hosts the Bringing Meditation to Life podcast. He also mentors individuals wanting to bring meditation - and the inner wisdom we connect with through this practice - more fully into their lives.  Neil's contact details https://neilmckinlay.com

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Transcript

Unknown Speaker  0:00  
So hello, everybody, we are in the finale of Season 11, which is all about shedding and letting go. Meditation is something that is very, very close to my heart, I do personalise recorded meditations that are specifically for people's needs. So if there's something that you're trying to work on set the anxiety, or the inability to sleep, then you can reach out to me by the gentle yoga warrior.com. Some of us have a kind of difficulty in doing it. But my best advice would be just to do a bit each day and then it will build up that meditation muscle. And I like to get experts from all around the world. And today's expert is called Neil McKinley, and Neil has spent his adult life studying practising and embodying meditation, I really like the word of embodying meditation. And he is a survivor as well. Apparently, he has a dysfunctional mentor, and also he has many other busyness into his life. It sounds like he's a parent partner, really meditation thing. So really intrigued to find out how he stays calm centred, and how meditation has helped him because I think through other people we learn, and the more we can kind of share, and kind of share each other's abilities, the better it helps everyone else. And we will be joined by Neil McKinley and Neil will be joining us from British Victoria. He has led online communities that is part of the living, meditation network and online gathering, and you host the bringing meditation to life, podcasts are always happy to help a fellow podcaster on the show. He also mentors individuals wanting to bring meditation and the inner wisdom we connect with through this practice more fully into their lives. I really like the community aspect of this. So without further ado, please welcome Neil McKinley to the show. So welcome to the show, Neil.

Unknown Speaker  2:00  
Hey, Jean, thank you very much for having me here.

Unknown Speaker  2:03  
Thank you so much for joining us today. And you're joining us from Victoria and British Columbia. And it's morning there. So thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to speak to us today. And the reason I was on the show, Neil is because we are at the end of season 11, which is all about letting go and kind of making space for something new. And I thought that today we're going to talk about letting go in the challenging times. And what does meditation have to offer us and I thought who better to speak to us today about it? The new Neil. So looking at your your website, you are a meditation teacher, mentor and survivor in recovery. And I really liked the community work that you have done for people as well. So could you be so kind as to talk a bit about your your experiences of being a meditation and also about the subject matter? That'd be fantastic.

Unknown Speaker  3:00  
Yeah, well, like you said, I'm a meditation teacher. I'm a meditation mentor, I work one on one I do group work classes, workshops, retreats. My main focus these days is really finding and following and trusting, you know, the wisdom that is inherent in all of us and letting this bring come out into the world. Finding and following through the teachings and practices of meditation. And my main vehicle of engagement and exploration in this regard is an online community called the online gatherings and how this all came about, you know, we can go way back to the beginning. You know, I started to meditate. When I was a teenager, I was taught by swim coach, I was a competitive swimmer. And I was a swimmer at a time when athletics were beginning to explore what is now called sports psychology. And I had a coaching staff that was into that stuff. And meditation was part of what I was introduced to. And it was compelling to me it was just interesting in a way that to this day, I can't really describe other than there was something in meditation that drew me and continues to draw me. And following that about 30 years ago, I started to study and practice in a more formal way, I started to study and practice in a pair of successive Buddhist communities that gave me opportunities to do formal to engage formal curriculum to do long retreats. And then around about 2016 this very long connection with the second of these communities began to unravel. It slowly became apparent to me that what was driving that particular community was not the well being and the development of the students, but really the self centred impulses of the leader. And these impulses gave rise to an environment that was characterised for me by manipulation and disempowerment and disruption Fact. And this became so disturbing and so harmful for me then in February of 2020, the end of February 2020, I made this difficult, but necessary choice to leave to end this 20 year relationship. And while the loss, I mean, the sense of loss, or their sense of relief of leaving was overwhelming was enormous. It just felt like so much weight off my shoulders, the sense of loss that came with it was, was devastating. You know, I lost a path, I lost peers, I lost livelihood, trust, confidence direction. And I had no idea what to do with this, I knew I had no idea how to make my way through this. So I did a couple of things. And both opened up this path of recovery and healing for me this path of exploration and discover discovery for me that have been profoundly affecting my life. And the work that I share now with the world. And both of these really quite interesting, involve different kinds of letting go. So the first thing that I did in the face of this lostness was I meditated, and it was like, right back to the very beginning, I couldn't explain why exactly I was meditating. There was just something there for me. And so I started to meditate. And as I was meditating, I was settling into what was happening. For me, I was settling into this lostness the way it's often described in the meditative tradition, which is really interesting, given the theme we're talking about is I let go into that last this, rather than resisting rather than fighting, rather than analysing or intellectualising. And I think it was all a function of just how lost I was, I surrendered into I let go into that experience of lostness. And out of that, letting go, there was this experience of knowing that repeatedly arose for me, that often spoke directly to what was happening in my life that that lostness, that devastating lostness, which suggested a kind of understanding or approach to meditation that had never really struck me before, which was letting the knowing that arises out of settling in that arises out of letting go into letting that knowing, reveal the path that's waiting to guide me into the world. And that's what I started to do. Because I was just so lost, I didn't know what else to do. And so if I was tired, I would rest if I was lonely, I would reach out, if I felt stuck, I'd engage trauma therapy, which I did a whole lot all out of this Act of, of letting go this first kind of manifestation of this theme we're exploring here, and this in this case, it was a letting go into. And the second kind of letting go that took place here. centred around the fact that a lot of the meditation I did in this stretch of time was done in community, it was done with others. And with the end of that really difficult relationship with the arrival of COVID in early 2020, my teaching livelihood vanished, and I started to offer something online that has evolved into this community known as the online gatherings. And in doing so, I began to see the brilliant and articulate and vulnerable and adaptive ways that others were engaging meditation, certainly, but also the challenges of their lives. And I started to let go of this notion that meditation is a solitary, individual isolated activity, and began to understand meditation as having a very, very important and vital communal aspect. Because under the influence of these two kinds of letting go letting go into through meditation practice, and beginning to heal this damaged relationship with my own inner wisdom, and then letting go of the notion of the solitary pneus of meditation and beginning to sense how much I need a community of others to remind me of the existence of this basic knowing I keep talking about under the influence of these two, I found myself beginning to move through this loss and finding a sense of path and purpose and direction that had previously been unknown to me.

Unknown Speaker  9:41  
Wow, Neil, that's, that's amazing. Because firstly, that was it was much better to start with it was very bold and brave, but necessary to kind of leave that community and then you felt this immense that that kind of SCAP, that space that it must have created. But instead of from I'm hearing sort of feeling like you're kind of like a victim. Instead, you kind of went into that emptiness into that space and just kind of allowed, what, what what unfolded and through taking this journey, you were able to set up this online community. And I really like what you said about the community as well. So I've never really thought of meditation in the community aspect, I've always done it as a solitary thing. But that is really, because we are all connected. There's a really beautiful way to kind of see it and to and to work. And meditation is community because we are all connected at the end of the day, and to kind of support and yeah, because I think sometimes community is something that can be missing in many aspects of life, not just like meditation, but um, and so from there, you grew this online community, and you stepped away from the old community and built your built your own. And from talking to you, it feels like it comes from the heart, you genuinely feel like you want to do good. You're not, you're not you've learned from the mistakes of your, of the previous community that you were in. So what what is meditation? I know, it's probably a question that people could probably debate for many hours, but in your opinion, your what is meditation? And how does it let us let her How does an ableist let go?

Unknown Speaker  11:32  
What is meditation? I think the simplest understanding that I have of meditation is that meditation is a it's a dynamic, basically, it's a dynamics and what that dynamic involves, it isn't involves turning our attention, are normally wandering attention, you know, that attention? That's like thinking about what am I going to do for dinner? What am I going to do for lunch? What am you know, why am I the one thinking about dinner? Why am I the one thinking about lunch, it involves turning that are normally wandering attention in a very particular direction. And where we turn our direction, well, different forms of meditation do that in different ways. You know, you can turn your attention toward a mantra, you can turn your attention toward a candle, you can turn your attention toward a visualisation, the practice that I've been trained in, and then I teach, we turn our attention toward our embodied experience. And what happens when we begin we do this is we begin to settle into that experience, we begin to let go in to that experience. Rather than holding on to my ideas about what my day is going to be or how my meditation practice is going to be, we begin to turn toward embodied experience, loosening my grip on those ideas, and literally letting go into that experience into what is going on for me right now in this moment, which raises the very good question of, well, why would I want to do that? Right? You know, if I'm having a good day, that sounds like a great idea. But if I'm a little bit agitated, why would I or lostness, why would I want to let go in that. Because within our immediate embodied experience, there is a kind of wisdom there's a knowing there's a clarity, there's a sensitivity, there's a sense of connectedness and intimacy, waiting right within our immediate embodied experience. And by letting go into that, we begin to touch that and we have then have an opportunity to allow that a chance to guide us out into the world. So that we're coming into this world, into our lives, from this relatively deep place of wisdom and sensitivity and connection and, you know, stability, I could list the qualities again and again,

Unknown Speaker  14:00  
yeah, so kind of fully embracing all aspects of life in a very kind of deep conscious and present, present way. So kind of not just picking the days that we think are this is nice is that if if loving ourselves to feel everything, I guess, but also kind of got by feeling it going beyond beyond that as well to kind of our very essence or very being that will be my kind of interpretation of that. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  14:34  
I mean, the meditative tradition, we'll talk about we'll use the word essence, Buddha essence or Buddha nature or basic nature. Other people might use the word, you know, soul, or, you know, mystery, you know, I think we could go on but yeah, that's exactly a great description.

Unknown Speaker  14:54  
Thank you. So, if I'm a listener listening in, and Um, um, let me read in a little bit meditation where we have not done any meditation before. What would you invite them to be as the first step? So kind of like letting go of off kind of feeling stuck? Or whatever it is that's going on their life and just starting to embrace meditation? How would you suggest they would start to do that?

Unknown Speaker  15:24  
I think, you know, there is there are so many people teaching meditation. Now, so many opportunities for us to engage. And you know, all these people use subtly or not so subtly different languages. I mean, there's all these amazing ways of talking about meditation. People talk about meditation, from the point of view of Buddhism, or different Buddhist traditions, people talk about meditation, from a Christian point of view, people talk about meditation, in terms of trauma, or science, or sports, or one of the things I tried to do is talk about meditation in terms of ordinary, everyday relatable experience. And so I think the first thing I would suggest is that people just take a look around, like you're doing going grocery shopping, you know, you're going down the meditation aisle, aisle eight is all the various kinds of meditation, and just check things out for yourself and find a language, a way of presenting the teachings and practices of meditation that resonates for you. And then, you know, work to find some ways to fit this into your life. And I think this is probably part of the resonance piece of what is as well, you know, finding presentation of meditation that respects the realities of your life and allows you to do the kind of adjusting you need to do to fit it in. You know, for instance, if you know work, doing three jobs and pay caring for an elderly parent, and, you know, we find someone who, for whatever reason is like, okay, meditation, we need to be doing it an hour a day, every day, that may not be the best fit, you know, but if you find someone who says, oh, you know, when you're really busy, we can meditate five minutes a day, and here's how we'll do it, that would be a good fit. So that's another part of that resonance. So you find a language that resonates a sense of presentation and possibility that resonates. And then take whatever support you need to actually follow that resonance to follow that path that's opening up. And one of the things I've really understood come to understand over the years is one of the easiest things in the world to do is actually not to meditate. This is whether we're a beginning meditator, whether we're an experienced meditator, it's just so easy to not meditate. And so having that language resonance, having that real life resonance, and then having support that actually allow us to as the saying goes, get to the cushion, or get to the mat or get to the chair, on a regular basis, I think is really important. And that can be whatever works for you. I mean, maybe it's a huge library of audio recordings, maybe it's a YouTube channel, maybe it's an in person, community, an online community, a book, you know, whatever it is that supports you find that, bring it close, let it be the foundation, and then let things grow from there.

Unknown Speaker  18:42  
Absolutely, I so similar thing with the asna part of yoga, I would say the hardest part is students turning up on the mat. So I do think to myself, like I'll put my yoga mat out before I go to bed, like but, obviously, but I put it out before I go to bed, or I'll leave like have a little stone that I hold when I meditate because it just it just reminds me This is meditation time. So I put that in a place where I will remember so that when I get up, that's the first thing I do. So that might not work for someone else. But there is ways we can kind of make it easier so that you know if we are doing say, online community or an audio thing have have have it bookmarked in your like browser or have have the same with the audio so that you can get to it easier because I think we can be creatures of habit and we sometimes take the easiest route which not always the best route but if we start with we make it easy by making it more accessible like then it's kind of we're more likely to kind of stick to these things. How has meditation helped you? Kneel navigate any personal crisis,

Unknown Speaker  19:56  
meditation provided me a tool to turn toward What was going on in my life to let go into what was going on to my life and to discover that there were these, there was this inner resourcefulness waiting for me, that has been so instrumental in me making it through the last three extremely challenging years of my life. And I need to be clear, you know, so I turned towards I let go into, I discover this tremendous inner resourcefulness. And this inner resourcefulness is also connected me with the fact that I have external resources as well. You know, I mentioned trauma therapy, oh, I'm stuck, I'm stuck. I'm stuck. Oh, I know, this trauma therapist who can probably help, like beginning to recognise that there are actually these resources in my life, or I have this friend, I can reach out to who's been through something similar. And it's really helpful to talk things through so I can give them a call. beginning to realise meditation has helped me realise in this time of crisis, personal crisis, that I am more resource than I had previously imagined both in an inner and an outer way.

Unknown Speaker  21:10  
Wonderful, that's wonderful. We don't have to do it alone. That is, so someone there that we can kind of reach out and help. And that might change it during the course of our lives. But we might, there's always someone that can kind of like, help. And that's what I really found. Beautiful about the community aspect of your your work is that you know, people so I can't meditate. I'll give you an example. I can't meditate because I don't have time. But then like you said, you can do like shorter parts, or I can't meditate because I overthink. But really, that's the best kind of tool because the brain will just keep thinking and thinking and thinking. And if you don't kind of like, step back back from it a bed, it's kind of like designed a bit like that, to kind of always have kind of like forks and meat. And it's, like you said on, it's so easy to kind of not meditate, but it's also with this beautiful community, there is a way that you can meditate and also build the community. So that that leads on to my next question, what role has community played in your practice?

Unknown Speaker  22:14  
It's a huge part. And it you know, it's a shocking part. As I said, Before, I really needed to over the last three years, I've really discovered this deeply held belief that meditation is largely a solitary pursuit. And there's been a tremendously affecting process of letting go of that notion and allowing it to be enriched with this and statement. It's a solitary pursuit. And it's a communal pursuit, as well. And I think there are a number of ways that I could describe the manner in which meditation is communal. The one that's been most effective for me, I think, is, you know, I've talked about a number of times about this inner wisdom, this inner knowing this inner sense of connection, that I've sensitivity that I touch into when I meditate when I turn towards and let go into. And that sounds great. But the honest truth is, you know, some days I show up to the group, and that is not how I'm feeling. I am not feeling like I'm letting go and connecting. And I am not feeling like there's knowing all I feel is like there's confusion and misery and whatever else there might be. And one of the things that the community environment has done over and over and over again, in the last couple of years, is reminded me that that's not the whole picture. So I show up, I'm feeling miserable. And someone will say something. And it just changes in that moment. It's just so brilliant, and so right on, it just changes my understanding of meditation, this practice that I've been gay engaging for decades, it changes my understanding of meditation, my understanding of meditations place in my life, my understanding of how I might live my life. And the person is not trying to be an effective teacher or anything. They're simply sharing their experience. They're speaking from where they're at right now. But with that honesty, and that true transparency and that sense of presence, it kind of puffs open the the clouds of misery and confusion that I'm feeling in that moment, and reminds me that, oh, behind these clouds, there's a brilliant sun. And I'm seeing it in front of me in person X, and it's helping me feel it a little bit in myself. And it's reminding me that okay, this is part of our human inheritance. This is part of who we are part of who I am. And that reminder It has been so helpful because there's been so many opportunities so many times when it would have just been easy for me to lock into. You know, my complaints about my situation, and spiral down. So interesting, maybe we could say community helps me let go of that tendency to lock into and spiral down by reminding me Oh, yes. There's also something brilliant going on here.

Unknown Speaker  25:31  
Wow, what a gift that is to kind of enable everyone to be able to do that for each of us to because we do need reminding we are, we are human. And we will have days when we feel like that. But that kind of inner light that connection and beauty that we can tap into and let go that spell because it is it, we can think one way and kind of get fixed. And then before we know it, we kind of completely stuck. So being in that community and learning and listening and hearing and just sharing just sharing it, I guess it's just been vulnerable in many ways of sharing, honestly, experiences and that that kind of helps elevate others, not by one's misfortune, but by realise and actually I do you feel like this sometimes? That's okay. It's not, it's not wrong. It's just, it's just part of the human experience.

Unknown Speaker  26:21  
Yeah, and I mean, that's a great example, because one of the more effecting moments I actually remember was, you know, and, and this is different from what I was talking about before. And at the same time, not, it's still the same, but someone in the midst of, you know, our discussion at the end of a talk at the end of a practice, you know, so we typically come together we practice together, often give a talk. And then we have a little bit of time of discussion with with the community. And I vividly remember, someone in the midst of discussion just said, you know, I'm really having a hard time I feel crummy today. And it just felt so open and honest, that it kind of proved everything for all of us. And I could feel the whole group just settle in, let go into our lives a little bit more deeply. There was this person made their statement, there was this poof, and then there was just silence for a few moments as we all kind of ha, yes. This. So yeah, it's very, very affecting. And it's really been an interesting process, you know, learning how to learning how to be together in this way, learning how to when a talk is finished, for instance, rather than automatically go into q&a mode, which preserves the sense of teacher and student and creates all these other dynamics, but to actually relax those roles a little bit. And sure, q&a has come up sometime, but actually settle into more of a discussion format was more of a sharing format more of a, here's where I'm at, and here's how I'm understanding things. And here's what I'm seeing and feeling and sensing and knowing.

Unknown Speaker  28:10  
Oh, yes. As that mindset that Boston is really kind of understanding of kind of just being to be, and how infrequently we we don't always remember to allow ourselves to be but to be is is, is where peace is that regardless of what's going on, that's where peace, peace, we found kind of peace in our in our heart. So what does meditation do you think have to offer? In during challenging times? There's been many challenging times over the last years, and I'm sure there'll be challenging times in the future. And, and there can be so much so many challenges. But what would you say to a listener who's thinking, well, actually, yes, I like the idea of meditation. But my life's really challenging right now. Like, what can I do?

Unknown Speaker  29:07  
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really interesting question, because certainly, but I think it's it's pretty clear that there are a lot of challenges facing people personally, a lot of challenges facing people on a more global vaster scale. And it's, you know, it's something that I contemplate a great deal, you know, what does meditation have to do with this? It feels really important to me that meditation have something to do with this. But what does it actually have to do with this? What is the world? What does meditation bring to this context of, you know, multiple and enormous challenges that we're facing right now? And I think, you know, personally, I believe that in order to meet these challenges, in order to meet you know what we are facing and I'm speaking a bit more globally right now, in order to meet these challenges and the opportunities that exist within them. I really believe that human human beings need to bring everything we are to the table, we need to bring the fullness of who we are to the table, and what meditators or what contemplative people more broadly, I think offer this moment is a sense of familiarity with, and fidelity to the depths of our being, and a willingness to follow these depths into the world, to bring these depths into the world, in the necessarily unique and unprecedented way that each of us was born for. And I think this is something that we begin to touch into, when we turn toward and let go into the stuff of our lives. I've been talking in terms of, you know, knowing and sensitivity and finding path and direction, and so forth. Another way of we could talk about it is we begin to deepen our relationship with the necessarily unique, an unprecedented gift that each of us has to bring, to this moment to this world. And, you know, it's an admittedly vast and kind of daring approach to meditation, but I really believe the times call for it for us to not only turn toward and settle in, turn toward and let go into and welcome or wisdom, or welcome, knowing, but actually, to then bring all of this into our lives, bring meditation to life as the phrase I often use, for the benefit of this world of which we are part.

Unknown Speaker  31:49  
Yeah, because we're all part of the world. We're all it's, it's, we're all part of everything and to and I love that term, bring meditation to life and, and also how to kind of navigate through these times and how we kind of can bring this meditation to life by just via the sense of community, I think that's one of the great gifts that you have to offer. Have you built this online community which can reach so many people? But I'm not not? Could you let us know, Neil, about your I know, you've got your own podcast, you have your own meditation website and online community, if, if one of our listeners would like to join any of those things and know about them?

Unknown Speaker  32:32  
Well, you know, I mean, you can find me in all the usual places like Facebook and Instagram, and, you know, the usual podcast outlets, and so on, and so forth. But really the best place to get a sense of, you know, the totality of the work that I'm offering that I'm doing in this effort to use the phrase we both just utter to, you know, bring meditation to life is my website. And that is Neil mckinley.com. And I'm a rare McKinley where the end of my name is La Why not ley, I don't know what you'll find if you do l EY. But it probably won't be me. But check out Neil mckinley.com, it's the best place to get a good sense of everything I do, including the subscription based online gatherings that we've talked about, and alluded to a number of times. And you know, if you're also people are also so inclined to you, they can sign up for the newsletter. I mean, in addition to giving people a gradual introduction to what I'm doing, in addition to getting a sense of upcoming events, and special offers, offers, and so on, and so forth. You know, it's a reminder, the email shows up like once a month, and it's a reminder, and here we're coming back to community because I didn't know it was a reminder, this is something other people have told me, you know, I've run into people on the street and they say, Hey, you know, I got your newsletter, and I said, Oh, what do you think of it? And he said, Well, I didn't actually open the email. They said, but you didn't open the email. You didn't even look at the newsletter. And they said, No, I never look at it. But when your email comes in, I see that and I think to myself, Oh, yeah, meditation, that you know, people sign up for the newsletter, and certainly a lot of people do open and read the newsletter, but it serves, I think the most important function that serves the purpose it serves is just a reminder, Oh, yeah. Meditation, reminding us that maybe, maybe meditation has something to offer us something to bring to our life, something that might be of benefit. So that's the main way I think, Neal mckinley.com, and there's a lot there and just spend some time looking around and again, the newsletter can give you a more gradual introduction to the specifics of what I'm up to.

Unknown Speaker  34:53  
Oh, I've had a look at your website and it's been absolutely fantastic. And listeners do head over there. There's there's lots of great information on meditation and and just a reminder once a month, like Neil said, it's a fantastic thing. So it doesn't sound like he's too spammy. So that's really nice. It's really nice to know people are too busy for like millions of emails a day, these days. So, Neil, I'm mindful of the that had a lovely, lovely chat, but is there anything else you would like to add to their talk today,

Unknown Speaker  35:23  
you know, I think just encouragement for all of us to just take the time, you know, I've described the dynamic of meditation a number of times in the course of our conversation. And it really boils down to, you know, kind of a simple description, you know, just take time in our lives to turn toward what's going on and just let go into and just touch, begin to touch and develop slightly deeper relationship with the depths that are waiting there. And it doesn't need to be a five minute thing, a 20 minute thing, a 45 minute thing. This is something that we can just do standing in the grocery line, like just take a moment, turn toward, let go into. And then start putting your milk and eggs and broccoli on the grocery store. We'll so just give ourselves those moments in our life and they don't need to be more than moments.

Unknown Speaker  36:31  
I love that. It's just getting them just had those moments that pause. I certainly feel more relaxed speaking to you today, Neil. And I kind of feel I feel like I've done a meditation from having this interview with us. It's been absolutely fantastic. We'd love to have you on the show again in the future. And dear listeners, I'll put on the show notes, Neil's contact details, in case you missed, missed the website. But Neil, thank you so much for joining us a day and you take care and I'm looking at looking forward to looking at your work in the future as well. So thank you so much, Neil.

Unknown Speaker  37:04  
Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure being here. Thanks to all your listeners for listening.

Unknown Speaker  37:08  
Thank you, Neil. And, and as always, listeners do stay tuned. As always, there's a meditation inspired by today's show. As promised, here is your meditation. Inspired by today's show. Top Tips for the meditation is either sit nice and cross legged on the floor of a nice straight back. Always nice to sit on a block or a cushion, or that's not available for you. You sit in a chair with the back nice and straight. The important thing is you're not slouching. And if you're doing something that requires you concentration are you to do is just pause this and you can reconvene the meditation at a time that is good for you. If you're doing the meditation, that's begging, close your eyes and enjoy a slower pace of breathing. Slow equals a calmer state of mind. From your energetic Heart Centre, this space in front of the heart. Imagine a big, bright, beaming light of love. Emanating from your heart centre, green, vibrant, uplifting, so large and bright, that it has the ability to fill the room as you beam your love out into the world. Imagine love beaming down to you from the universal heart in return. So, the more love you give out, the more love you receive. back. Keep going with it. deep, slow breathing. Allowing yourself to fill it with light. Allowing the love to expand and grow. Grow, grow, grow, let it go. Big and bright. Give up the fight. Allow this illuminating beautiful power of love. As it comes down to you unconditionally from above. As you share and you care and you find your natural flair. You heal and reveal the heart of your soul. It's not always about overcoming goals, but being present being in love being like so peaceful like a dove floating flying above Keep going have it slow, deep breathing, allowing yourself to fill it with light. don't fidget, don't give a fight. Allow the love to expand and grow. Step into your inner God Goddess, and let yourself glow. Send that love to the first person you can imagine next to you. And just imagine, in turn, then passing the love to the next person and the next until the love just builds and bills and bills and eradicates all evil allows it to go back to the light and transform into love. without judgement, you allow the world to heal with lashings of love from above. So each person each person passes love on to the next. The love just grows and grows. The light is omnipresent. All healing all knowing

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