Stay Curious, Kind And Orientate Your Life To Better Than Normal

What if the problem isn’t people who don’t fit, but the idea of “normal” itself? We sit down with Rev. MaryAnn McKibben Dana—pastor, coach, author, and parent—to rethink how we measure worth, design community, and navigate seasons of change. With warmth and candor, MaryAnn shares how her family’s journey with anxiety, depression, and neurodivergence reframed success from fitting in to living fully. Instead of treating difference as defect, she invites us to widen our shared spaces so diverse minds and tender hearts can belong without shrinking.

We unpack the subtle pressures of productivity culture and why constant output erodes mental health, relationships, and joy. MaryAnn offers a humane antidote: start from the premise that people are inherently creative, resourceful, and whole. From there, curiosity becomes an act of care. One practical move—ask a question before giving your view—can turn argument into understanding, even when values differ. We also explore life’s rhythm of orientation, disorientation, and reorientation, trading the fantasy of “back to normal” for the wiser work of building what’s next.

MaryAnn's contact details

https://www.maryannmckibbendana.net

https://maryannmckibbendana.substack.com

If you’re hungry for kinder communities, practical mental health tools, and a fresh path beyond conformity, this episode offers clarity and heart. Listen, share with a friend who needs encouragement, and leave a review to help others find the show. Subscribe for more grounded conversations on curiosity, courage, and living better than normal.

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Transcript

Season Context And Theme

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Hello everybody, I'm your host, the Gentle Yoga Warrior. And we are three quarters of a way through season twenty. Can you believe that we're in season twenty? Wow. We're coming into March next, which is about building momentum, clarity, seeing the seeds of our effort, inspiration, and growth as we meaningfully step into the next chapter of our lives. And today's subject matter is going to be a great one for this time of year. We're going to talk about staying curious, because I think curious is really important. To be better than normal. I like that, or better than normal. And I've got an extra special guest today on the show. Joining us from the suburbs of Virginia, Washington, DC, USA, will be the fantastic Reverend Mary Ann McKibben Donna, who has written many books, is a pastor, as a sought-after speaker, and has appeared in such publications as Time and The Washington Post, to name but a few. She is also a leadership coach, a mum or mom, depending on where you live, or free, an enthusiastic muffin maker, and on occasion an ultra marathoner. Wow. And we will have uh this wonderful guest, uh Mary Ann on the show very, very shortly. So without further ado, please welcome Reverend Mary Ann McKibben Darner to the show. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Thank you so much. It's great to be here with you.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

It's great to have you on the show, and I've been very excited about talking with you because I've thoroughly enjoyed your book. Today we're going to talk about how to stay curious, kind, and orientate our life to better than normal, which I really like like to talk about. Marianne, would you please explain a bit about your journey so far and your own life's experience today?

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Yes, big question. So I live in uh Virginia with my husband, and we have three young adult children, and so we are in that stage of life where we are helping them launch into the world, which means helping them figure out who they are and what their gifts are and where they can find their way in the big wide world. And I also serve as a leadership coach. I have been a writer for many years. As you mentioned, this book is the fourth book that I have written, which is just really hard to believe that I am at that point. And I also serve as a pastor in the Presbyterian Church. I really seek in the work I do in all of those roles to help people find their way on whatever path is right for them. I find a lot of wisdom in many of the world's traditions and have just found my way into Christianity, but it's one path of many beautiful ones. And really what's important to me is helping people be the people that they were created to be. And that's really my own job with myself as well. So that journey has taken me in all kinds of interesting directions over my life, and I just feel a lot of gratitude for the chance to talk with deep people like yourself and and see what see what we can co-create together in this conversation.

Why “Better Than Normal” Now

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Beautiful. I like that concept. I like that concept a lot. So as you mentioned, you've written you've written several books, and your newest Better Than Normal really challenges us what I like about how we think about modern life. Because we're in a world where in this world many are obsessed with fitting in, but Better Than Normal dares to ask, I feel, the revolutionary question what if the problem isn't people who don't conform, but the idea of normal itself? For those who are new to your work, can you tell us about this book and why you felt the call to write it now?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

So it really came out of my own family's experience. As I I mentioned, you know, our oldest is 23, we have a 20-year-old and we have an 18-year-old. And all three of them, when they hit adolescence, really struggled with their own mental health and depression and anxiety. And our job as parents was to help them figure that out and develop some tools and skills and in some cases medical interventions and things like that to help them. But what I also really came to realize, because a couple of them also got diagnosed with some neurodivergence, so their brains just work differently. And we didn't know that when they were, when they were young. And so as we began to discover that about them, these differences that they have, it really wasn't that there was something wrong with them. It's just that the world at large just isn't well suited for people whose brains work a certain way or who are very sensitive to the world around them from a kind of sensory perspective. And so even as we were trying to help them develop tools for managing in the world, we also were learned realizing the ways that the world is kind of not adapted well for people who don't fit a very narrow version of what humanity looks like. And so I wrote the book with this kind of audacious goal to try to change the world that we live in, because it's not just up to the individual to try to fit in to the wider world, but the wider world can be more expansive and more welcoming and hospitable to people who do think differently and who do live in the world differently. And so the the book is really about what are some values and virtues that we can build as communities to make a much wider place for people of all kinds of differences and not try to force people into this little box of what we considered normal. So that's what that's what the book is about.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

I love that. And I find it helped me because I'm dyslexic and I've always tried to kind of fit in in into the world in a way. And when I learn to stop doing that, then I can kind of fully be be my myself because we're all the beauty is the all the differences that we are, right? Because we're then putting something to the world.

Neurodiversity And Rethinking The Box

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Absolutely. That's absolutely right. And and it's it's both, right? I mean, we you know, we need to develop to your tools and skills, and I'm sure that you have as well, just to how to manage, but also for us to be gracious with each other and receive. I loved when you sent me the notes for for this gathering. You said, I'm dyslex dyslexic, so forgive any typos. And I was like, sounds good. Like, there's no need to be judgy about this. You know, we all have things that we do well and struggle with, and that's the other thing with with folks who I think have more divergent brains. There's so much creativity and and sensitivity there, and we need to nurture that and celebrate it.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Absolutely. You're right about a society built around constant productivity and high pressure takes a toll and well-being. Why do you think this is the way we're living today? And and it's so why is it so damaging? And what do you see as the antidote to this?

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Well, I I think I have to, at least my my religious tradition has to take a lot of the blame there because I think it's that Protestant work ethic that is so ingrained, certainly in the United States, but I think it's present in many cultures where you are valued for what you produce, for what you create for the world. And if you have a hobby, you need to monetize that hobby and sell your things on Etsy, or you know, if you're a musician, you need to go do those open mic nights and figure out a way to you know sell your sell your work. And and I'm not saying that creative people shouldn't be compensated for their work, but this grind of productivity and being useful is a good thing in many ways. But when it tips over into I don't I don't know who I am without doing and and always going and going, I have a number of people who are in my life who are nearing the retirement age and they're going through this. Like, who am I if I'm no longer working? And and again, none of this is bad in itself. It's just the extreme, the the the way we take it to extremes. And so it's damaging for our mental health, it's damaging on our physical health. I don't know if you all are experiencing this in the UK, but there's so much being written in the United States right now about this epidemic of loneliness where people feel really disconnected from their communities, from family. A lot of that is because of technology. But I think it's also because we're kind of constantly in this hustle to uh to be productive. And so there's a relational toll as well. And so I think the antidote is some shifts that we can make in our communities to think about that we are inherently valuable, that we are inherently worthy of love, regardless of what we produce or don't produce, or do or don't do. I also think there are some systemic things that we need to address too, as you know, the inequality of wealth gets so dramatic, and people are trying harder and harder just to pay the bills. There's some systematic things that are going on too that are maybe above my ability to solve, but I at least want to get people thinking about this is the way the world is, but the world doesn't have to be the way that it is. We we make the world and we can remake it in in more healthy and life-giving ways.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

So that's I like that I find that very inspiring that we can remake because I do think uh again, I can't beat the rest of it, but in the UK as well, a lot of people are feeling feeling disconnected, the lack of community, the lack of time to be with loved ones and financial um ways to see loved ones as well. So there's all these things, but yeah, we can remake the world, and I think sometimes we forget that.

The Productivity Grind And Its Toll

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yes, yes, and and we have to start right where we are. Like when I think about the kind of society changing, feels overwhelming, but I can have an impact on my immediate family, my immediate neighborhood. And when we do those small acts of change, those can add up, and ultimately they help us feel a little more like we have some agency here, that there's something we can do rather than simply wishing things were different. And so that's part of why I wrote the book is to give people some ideas and tools for thinking about how we might start doing that.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Oh, there's some great ideas and and tools within that. Dear listeners, I will put a link uh into the show notes. Marianne, you describe life as often swinging. I love this part on your book, by the way, between disorientation and re-reorientation. Can you share an example of what that looks like in life? And what kind of orientation should we aim for?

Remaking Community At Human Scale

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Yes, thank you, Jane. I I got this idea, this part of the book is really inspired by one of my professors who taught the Hebrew Bible, and he talked about the book of Psalms, which is this song book of the people, and it has every kind of human emotion in it. And and all of those psalms fall into one of three categories. This is Walter Brugeman, uh, was the one who came up with this. And orientation is where life just makes sense. The rules kind of seem clear, and we kind of know what we're doing, and and things feel very comfortable. Disorientation is where everything has been turned upside down, and the way that we thought our life was going to go is is completely up-ended, and we're having to find our way. It's a very disorienting. That's why they call it that that that stage of life disorientation, because we just don't know what what we're doing. And then as we move through that, we move into a time of new or reorientation, which is not the same as orientation. Like those kind of binary rules no longer kind of work, but we still we kind of have our feet underneath us and we kind of know know what we're doing. And so it's in some ways kind of a leveling up of wisdom, right? We've come through the hard thing and now we're in a new place. And I think, as I said in the book, that we're always going between those two things. Like we learn some life lessons, and then we're thrust into a new set of challenges, and we have to learn and then come through that. And so it's it's constantly going back and forth. And I think about that with my own family, as I mentioned, this challenge with our kids and helping them learn about how to live well and thinking about their own mental health. And that was a very disorienting time because as parents, we didn't know how to help them, what is the right thing to do, how much do we let them as they become adults find their own way, and how much do we support them, all of this. And I would say that we're in a time of reorientation with them now because things are, I wouldn't say things are stable because this phase of life for young people, they're they're going to college and they're finding jobs and they're in relationships, and it's it's a very busy time. But we have so many more tools, and our relationship has deepened so much since walking with them through this. So it really does feel like a reorienting towards who we are as parents, who our kids are, and and that's the kind of I think orientation or reorientation that we should aim for in answer to your question. That we don't want to go back. I mean, I don't know if you remember or if this happened to you during COVID, but but during the pandemic, people say, let's just get back to normal. And I think life is profoundly different now. There's no going back. And so that to me, I think is what is important about reorientation is it's not about returning to something that is gone. It's about creating something new that may be hard and challenging, but also we have the the skills and resources and community to be able to make it work.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

And that's a very soothing, soothing thought to realize that yeah, that we can't go back, we can only go forward, and the landscape of life is always changing. No one could have predicted that was gonna happen in a wildest dream. So I like that idea and I find it very soothing. And you speak beautifully about how curiosity and an open heart can help like less judgment and more compassion and how it can heal the world. What do you feel that actually looks like to live that way today? And how do you think we can remember to stay curious when it's easier to close off and be stuck in our ways?

SPEAKER_00 17:47

It's such a good question, and it's so needed right now with people so polarized and so dug into their own ideas and and opinions. And and I guess what I tell people as a way to start being curious is before you share your own view of something, just ask a question. I mean, that's just a simple practice, is in fact, I was with a group last week that was a very diverse group, lots of different religious perspectives in the room, and we were all trying to understand each other. And one of the questions that that they suggested that we ask each other in these table conversations is tell me about, tell me a story from your life that helped bring you to the perspective that you have. So you're not trying to argue with them. You you're just trying to understand what led you to this view that you have. And you don't have to agree with the view, you don't have to abandon your own perspective, but understanding someone's life story and what brought them to where they are is the key to curiosity, it's the key to compassion. I was I was surprised when I did a word study of curiosity that the word or the Latin root for curiosity is related to care. And I always think about curiosity, or I used to think about it as a mental thing, like an intellectual curiosity. We've heard that phrase, right? But curiosity means that I care about you. I care enough to learn what you're what you're all about and what brought you to where you are. And it doesn't cost us anything to be curious. Again, we don't have to agree with the other person, we don't have to abandon deeply held beliefs ourselves, but it can really it can really change us in ways that we can't can't imagine. And I think we could use a lot more curiosity in our in our cultures today.

From Disorientation To Reorientation

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Absolutely. It's it's a great learning, I feel. I'm gonna I'm gonna take that on board as well when anything comes up that I might not necessarily, you know, we all have things sometimes that can kind of rub us up the wrong way. Uh I used to feel like I'm I'm like a really open-minded person, then occasionally things can come along. I guess that's the humanness of us of us all, and and exploring that through curiosities is a great way. Um Maryan, you write about the journey from comfort to courage, and I think comfort is so easy to sit in sometimes, isn't it? And um and how prioritizing our own comfort can sometimes impact others in ways we don't realize. Can you please unpack what that means and how we can reclaim our courage in order to make the world a better place?

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Yeah, so the the book has these pairs of values that we value of the kind of world as it is, so that's comfort, or certainty is the one that goes with curiosity. So let's move from certainty to curiosity and let's move from comfort to courage. And I think when we can do that, we can make the world more beautiful and more welcoming for people who are all kinds of differences. And I wanted to I that was a hard that the that chapter was hard to write because I think that comfort is important. I think we live in a world that is constantly assaulting us with bad news and terrible things going on, and for some people it hits really close to home. It's not just something they read about, but something that is happening. And so I didn't want to come across as saying that comfort isn't important. We do need to find ways of exercising self-care, taking care of our bodies and our minds and our relationships. But what sometimes happens is we prioritize comfort in a way that requires someone else to suppress who they are or not say difficult things. So you think about a family where there's maybe a big secret or some kind of relationship that's not working well and no one talks about it, right? That is comfort at the expense of honesty, at the expense of growth. And comfort can often keep us stuck. So we were talking earlier about this disorientation and reorientation. Comfort doesn't ever let us get to reorientation where we've learned and where we've grown. We need to move beyond what we know into a new kind of way of being, and I think we need courage for that. Courage also, as I studied the word, also relates to the word for heart in French, Kerr. And courage is what I think helps us get out of that cycle of comfort. Like I just need to feel good and feel comfortable, and anything that gets in the way of that, I just don't even want to listen to. And courage and I think curiosity go hand in hand because they can, if we're curious about something, maybe somebody that we deeply disagree with. And if we can be curious and learn something about, then maybe we don't we realize we don't have something to fear from this person. They're just another fellow traveler trying to find their way in the world. And that takes courage to do that. And so reclaiming our courage for me means maybe acknowledging I don't have all the answers, and I can be open to what other people's journeys are and learn from them, and that can help make me a different person as well.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

I like that a lot. It's it's it's it's very wise, and it I think it's gonna re a lot of people are gonna be able to relate to that and learn from that, and it's wonderful how you present it in your book. And I'd add like sometimes when I can be scared, but courage is kind of if it's something that we really need to do then to kind of do that rather than sit in the comfort of oh I don't want to feel uncomfortable. That's right.

Curiosity As Care And Practice

SPEAKER_00 24:03

You're so right that that comfort I mean we think about courage as this kind of bravery of not feeling scared. But of course courage is really even when we feel scared we we do it anyway we take a risk and I think that when we can when we can do that one of the the practices that we learned with our kids when they were managing anxiety is called opposite action and it is the idea is when we're nervous about something and when we're excited about something our body does a similar thing like our heart beats a little faster and our palms maybe get a little clammy and our respiration increases. So physiologically nervousness and excitement are very similar and so opposite action means if you're nervous about something you kind of just go straight at it and say you know if you have to give a presentation in school and you're nervous about doing that you just volunteer to go first. And it's very hard to do and and it doesn't work in every situation but that takes courage to say I'm feeling a feeling in my body and I can do this and I and I'm going to give it a try. And this is also why I think we all need to work on this together as a culture because when I see someone being brave I want to affirm that even if they kind of stumble over their words or even if their voice is quiet as they're trying to to speak bravery is is powerful and it's a beautiful thing and let's all affirm that in each other when we see it.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

Absolutely we share something in common I noticed in your book that you love gardening. I love gardening too and I find it's a way that it really helps to feel grounded when I feel kind of bit disconnected in it from the present moment.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

What draws you to gardening and how can it help our mental health and emotional wellbeing well I'm a fairly new gardener still and it's something that I I think I had some experience as a younger person where I like had a houseplant that I killed because I didn't take good care of it and I just decided well I'm not good at that and I think having kids who are a little older and having a little more time gave me some space to say why don't I try this and just risk being bad at it and so for the first couple years of keeping a garden I said my job is to grow knowledge. If I grow vegetables then that's great but I'm really trying to grow knowledge and it set the bar really low so that when I would get a good tomato or some kale or spinach or whatever it was like well this is a bonus because I was just trying to grow knowledge of of what it's like to to garden and and how to do that. And but you're so right that and I think I've even read that that the microbes in the soil that I mean when we dig our hands into that that soil it it has a physiological effect on us that that being present to something physical. And you know it's a very it's a task that requires discipline you know like you need to go in and weed or you need to you know be on top of when it's time to plant certain things during the year. But there's also so much mystery in it. And so for me it's a good example of of the kind of spiritual life however you think about that which is that you put your best effort into it and you really don't know what's going to come out of it. But there's great joy in the practice itself. So if you've if you get some squash I mean this is the this is we've been trying to grow squash and zucchini for a couple of years and there are pests that just kill those plants every time so so it's for me it's a reminder to to let go of the outcome.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

I like that it's like the ultimate in surrender yeah because some some some years you get great crops and then other years you don't and then some pest comes exactly yes it's about kind of being patient without always thinking oh the outcome's got to be this a bit like life I'd say yes absolutely it's a good life lesson for sure. Definitely so so Mary Marianne in 2017 you founded your coaching practice to help people turn intention into action.

Moving From Comfort To Courage

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Can you tell us about that work and how coaching can help people create real and last and change in their life I have loved the practice of being a coach and the the skills that I learned in that training that I continue to use in my coaching practice and as a pastor and as a parent have been so invaluable because coaching is really not doing the work for someone but helping them along on their journey. And I've been thinking so much lately about one of the things that they taught us in the coach training that almost became like a mantra for us which is that people fundamentally creative resourceful and whole and that is the that is the grounding assumption when we get into coaching we're not trying to fix people we're not trying to make them different than they are but people have already have the resources within them they are already creative about their own lives and they are whole just as they are and so our job is to help people remember that because the world tells us all the time that we're not enough that we need to buy something that's going to make everything better and that we're broken. And so coaching I think really the way I like to think about it is just helping people remember what is already true way deep down. And to find you know my job is to listen them into their answers. What what and so it's a very freeing kind of relationship for me because my job and and I I struggled with this early on because I thought I'm they're hiring me to be some kind of expert and I need to kind of be able to suggest things and I do sometimes suggest have you tried this but really the lasting change that people experience comes from within and so just helping people listen and I try to listen for what they're saying and what's not being said because sometimes what's not being said is really the the the key and it's been a real gift to work with all different kinds of people and and yeah the turning intention into action is kind of one of my little taglines because I think we all have things oh I'd really love to do that or I wish I could do this. And coaching is very much about action. So it's at the end of each session it's like well what's your takeaway what what are you going to take from this conversation and even if it's a you know not a long to-do list but even if it's just a question here's the question that I'm going to live with over the next few weeks and just see what is revealed in that and so I just find it a very gratifying thing to to help people along that journey. I can imagine and it and shining like the light helping people find find the way I could make very sad and I think it's the work you're doing here too right you're trying to help people kind of get unblocked and unstuck from the things that get in our way and so yeah what to do next is very very coaching oriented. So I think this podcast in itself is kind of doing some of that work for folks.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Oh thank you Marianne appreciate that that that that's my goal to help as many people as I possibly can and and I I always learn something from from my guests and I find it's like I'm I'm getting something from I'm from talking to people as well and of course my my listeners as well so it's it's we all get something so it's perfect. So you've worn many hats pastor coach writer parent how does your work as a pastor and coach shape your writing and how does writing in turn influence the way you show up in those roles?

Opposite Action And Everyday Bravery

SPEAKER_00 32:36

I will say and and sometimes when I offer a sermon or even write something people say oh that really resonated with me and and what I always tell them a little bit with a wink is that I'm always preaching and writing to myself first the things that I'm struggling with, the the things that I'm really trying to sort through I do that through this proclamation whether it's on paper or in front of a group and what's beautiful about that and also challenging about it is I mean you know you have a pretty good idea of what I'm struggling with if you read my stuff. There's not I mean there's some basic privacy that I don't try not to violate but what you see is what you get like what I'm struggling with, you know it because I'm writing about it and I'm speaking about it. And that's a really beautiful thing. I I really think in past generations there was a sense that if you were any kind of religious leader that you needed to kind of project that you had all the answers and that you were some kind of expert. And that has really shifted a lot in recent years and I think a really positive way we're we're just human beings trying to figure things out just like everyone else and and yes we have certain resources that we turn to but those resources are available to anyone. And so even as I know that I guide people along their path I'm also on my own path. And so writing publicly about our family's experiences and struggles which we do with our kids' permission because I mean this younger generation is so much more open about mental health than I think you know our previous generations were and I think it's so healthy just to say just like you wouldn't hide a broken leg, you don't need to hide that you're going through some anxiety or that you're feeling in a depressive state and it just takes so much of the stigma away. And so I really wrote the book really with that in mind this is what I'm also trying to do is take away the stigma of if you don't fit in this little narrow box, let's consider that maybe the box isn't healthy at all. It's not really good to sort of say here is what it means to be a human and if you're outside of that you need to get well so that you can fit in that box. Let's just get rid of the box. And so I think that's kind of a little bit of the writer the parent the the coach you know all of those things kind of bleed into each other and and I think they're really I hope a healthy and a authentic in an authentic kind of way.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

Absolutely and I think when if people are suffering it it's it's really important to understand that you know there's there's things out there that can help them and you know we there's not a single person alive in my opinion that doesn't have some some things that they struggle with at some point in their life and and and you know we're I think it's great that there's been such great big leaps and bounds in mental health and it it's so important. So dear listeners if you're struggling with anything please reach out to whoever you feel that can help you with whatever you're going through. Yeah absolutely with so many responsibilities do you have a particular writing ritual or creative practice that helps you stay grounded and connected with yourself?

Gardening, Surrender, And Joy In Process

SPEAKER_00 36:11

I'll give you kind of a a general idea and then a little specific practice that I do one of the things is is to simply get rid of the idea that there's a right way to be a writer there are people I know and people who are famous writers who get up every morning at a certain time and they're sitting at their desk and they do a certain thing at a certain time and I have never been that kind of writer. Part of it's being a parent but part of it I think is just my own brain is that kind of very rigid ritual for many people works and I I recommend it for those who need that consistency. But I've got to find okay I'm sitting in the car while my kid is at a cello rehearsal I'm writing you know so getting comfortable writing in the little moments and nooks and crannies of your life I think is really important. And one of the ways that I do that and this is a specific thing this really works more for nonfiction but I think maybe it could work for fiction as well is when I'm working on a topic I just brainstorm as many potential topics within that as I can. So it's just a list of vignettes or or short things that I could write about almost like a bunch of headlines. And so when I have 20 minutes or 30 minutes to sit down and write I already have a list so I don't have to open my computer or my notebook and say what am I going to write about today I already have a list so I it's kind of I've heard it a writing teacher that I that I've worked with talks about it is leaving a trail of breadcrumbs for yourself. So you have when you open your computer you know where you're going to start rather than spending 10 minutes figuring out what what your starting point is. And that has really helped me because all of my books I have written while I've been doing all of these other things. And so I needed to make the most of those little times. And I think also you know you talked about being grounded and connected to yourself is just really trusting the the first draft you know and just let yourself write whatever you need to write and trust that you can edit it later instead of trying to make it perfect the first time I think that's just a more gracious way to be with ourselves than to try to make it good first just just make it be and then it can be good later.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Oh that's so helpful Marianne I like the breadcrumb things and and yeah we don't we don't need to go back and correct and be perfect. Just kind of allow it to unfold that's wonderful. If there's one simple thing that a listeners could do today starting now to change their life for the better what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 39:00

I think what I would tell people is something that I've learned many practices over my years and and the one that has really meant the most to me is something I came up with during COVID actually when there were so many days when all the days ran together and I just felt like I was kind of languishing and and I realized in thinking about it that I was missing one of three things and sometimes more than one of those three things beauty relationship or action and beauty simply can be going outside and and looking at nature could be looking at a piece of art it could be listening to a song but when I was just stuck in doing instead of just beholding this beautiful world I I knew that I was out of out of sync with myself and then relationship is just uh if I'm feeling isolated I'll call a friend text a friend do something for someone else and action is just do one small thing you know if if life is feel feeling overwhelming make your bed or tidy for five minutes or write one note to someone just as small a thing as you can imagine. And I was teaching this to a group not long ago and and someone said you know the initials for that are bra so I talk about putting your bra on but like one of those three things or more if those I find when I'm just feeling out of sorts I'm missing one or more of those things and when I can just get access to to those it's enough of a shift that I feel like I can proceed with my day and and do what's mine to do.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

Oh that's a fantastic compass to have because sometimes we can think oh overwhelmed don't know what to do so that that's very helpful. Thank you. Then the listen I'm thinking actually yeah I'd like to connect how can they go about that and to work with yourself as well Marianne.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Yes well I have our website Marianne McKibbandana.net but I also would love to see folks and connect with your listeners through I have a newsletter that I have on Substack called the Blue Room and so if you search Blue Room Marianne McKibben Dana you'll probably find it but it's on it's on Substack as well and it's a place where I write every Friday just what I'm thinking about, what is having an impact on me and what I hope helps guide people toward living more deeply in this very very clamoring kind of world with so much going on so many roles that we play so I just try to be a little bit of a place place to breathe so I would be for people to join me in the blue room and I I also have there's a podcast related to that which is I I post thoughts on there from time to time and and yeah so I I would look forward to connecting with people there.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Oh I'll I'll put that in the show notes as well.

Coaching: Creative, Resourceful, And Whole

SPEAKER_00 41:59

One final thing is there any closing remarks you'd like to leave our listeners with I guess I would say just as I I shared in in the coaching training because it's been so important to me lately to say this to myself is that we are all already creative resourceful and whole and for us to really believe that and to trust that we're all doing the best that we can trying to make our way in this world and to be kind to ourselves knowing that we have what we need within us and and so that would be my my uh blessing for all of you as we as we finish.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

That's that's a beautiful blessing and thank you so much dear listeners the one and only Reverend Marianne McKibond who joined us today from the USA so thank you so much and um dear listeners as always is the meditation inspired by today's show but thank you very much Marianne. Thank you so much it was just a joy to be with you Jay it's a joy to have you thank you top tips for the meditation is either sit nice and cross legged on the floor with a nice straight back always nice to sit on a block or a cushion or that's not available for you you sit in a chair with a back nice and straight and the important thing is you're not slouching. And if you're doing something that requires little concentration all you need to do is just pause this and you can reconvene the meditation at a time that is good for you. If you're doing the meditation that's beginning so dear listener as you sit there and you feel as if you are completely and utterly supported by the ground your breath is long and deep and calm your shoulders and body feel completely and utterly relaxed. You find comfort in the moment regardless of how it unfolds and you do this by finding a way to be present and that presence comes from connecting with your breath allowing instead of fighting against life of course you have a compass of where you are headed but you allow for the winds of life for nothing is ever in a straight line and when life feels a little bit off you use your breath and knowledge of the moment to see life with less judgment and more compassion extended as you prioritize your journey and realize that you can reclaim your courage to make the world a kinder, brighter, more lovely

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Place. You find that clarity from simply being here.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

Stay curious, kind, and orientate your life to feel better than normal for what is normal anyway. Tap into that inner strength, that self-trust and confidence as you breathe calmly and deeply.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Allowing love and presence.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

As you slowly come back into the moment, come back into the now, knowing that you are wonderful as you are this moment.