42. How Do We Know If We're Loveable?

Are we loveable? Insecurities can stem from so many different sources but how do we manage them and prevent them from ruining our current and future relationships? We dive into our experiences with our past and figure out how to notice our triggers and re-work our thinking so we can have healthier relationships.  

**Content Warning: Death, Depression, Suicide**

Takeaways:

• Don’t give up after the first time you seek professional help because it’s about the right fit and right timing
• We inherit unhealthy emotional attachments from our families but we can unlearn them
• No one is responsible for our emotional labour but ourselves
• Your partner has the right and is responsible for choosing you

Resources:

• How to Overcome a Fear of Rejection
• Communicating Your Needs Isn't Selfish, It's Selfless
• Four Ways to Stop Feeling Insecure in Your Relationships

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Transcript

Kristy Yee: 0:00

Can we be loved? I just want some love.

Angie Yu: 0:29

All right. Welcome back to another episode of shit. We don't tell mom, this is Angie.

Kristy Yee: 0:34

This is Christie.

Angie Yu: 0:35

In today's episode, we start by discussing the beginnings of our mental health journey and how we carry our insecurities with us into relationships and our insecurities of not being loved because we have a mental illness and how we expect other people to take on our emotional burdens. we talk about how having learned the tools and resources from working on our mental health, has helped our current relationships and how we have. learned from our past relationship traumas, how we have taken our mistakes from the past and try to just be better.

Kristy Yee: 1:11

We talk about how the tools that we have learned has helped our relationship. And we share a little bit of some of those tools and we give you some examples and hope you enjoy the episode.

Angie Yu: 1:28

Your mental health journey has kind of been going on for a while, right? You don't have a very, you don't have a definite like, oh, this is what exactly when it started. Whereas I had a very, definitely this is when it started. So for me, it's a lot easier to recall this. what do you think was the more obvious point of boom? I'm going to start my mental health journey.

Kristy Yee: 1:51

wow, that's a good question. And really relevant to this episode. my mental health journey had really been on and off. So some of our poop troops might know that I was first diagnosed after going to a, after being admitted to the hospital. And I was told I have depression when I was 12. So that was my first like encounter. And then I was like hella embarrassed, never going to tell anybody about this experience, just ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, and try to live my life and just pretend that never happened. And then, and then around fourth or fifth year and some folks might be like the fuck I was in post-secondary for about nine years. So this is like halfway through my post-secondary journey. I had a really bad breakup, the worst breakup I've had, I was in school. my dad had recently passed away and I just. Could not function well. And that was like a sign that maybe I should revisit the idea of seeking mental health support, even though I was avoiding, avoiding, avoiding up until then. So this is probably like a good 10 years after I was admitted to the hospital. And so I, I sought school counseling cause that's free and it's part of my tuition and I guess it was then that I started to think about, you know, how my mental health may or may not have contributed to. How I react in a dating relationship, then I moved on for that and like, ignore, ignore, ignore until like, I don't have a mental health problem. until like, I don't know, we started this podcast.

Angie Yu: 3:58

you mean when you cried at my house after drinking too much wine and we went into some really deep shit we were talking about like, why is it so difficult to be a woman who's about to turn 30? It's difficult to be an Asian woman being growing up in an Asian household with immigrant parents. I think we went into some really deep shit for what was supposed to be like a, like a, Hey, we reconnected and let's hang out, we'll have some wine, it'll be fun. And then just ended up crying, which was great. I loved it. It was very cathartic. would you say that the death of a loved one and the end of a relationship that. Combination of, you know, just so much grief kind of made you go, okay, I'm not okay. I need help.

Kristy Yee: 4:50

yeah, exactly. It was that it was like, this is too much. Like I cannot handle this anymore. I think what it is is, and I think a lot of folks do this as well. We try to be strong all the fucking time. I know in my regular life, I take on a lot of projects. That's something I'm working on. Like even in therapy, like why do I have to fill my schedule so much? Why do I have to do all this stuff? A part of that. Me trying to prove, not just to myself, but to others that I am strong. I am capable. I am productive. I'm a value, blah, blah, blah. And then, and then, you know, my dad passed away and I'm like, I'm strong. I can do this. I can, I can deal with all the lawyers and the bankers and the government and blah, blah, blah. Like I got this while going to school. And then the breakup happened and it was like, did they say? That like the toothpick on the camel's back, the straw, the straw, it was like, it was like the, it was like the breaking point. I was like, I actually cannot, I cannot carry on, on all of this stuff. I pretend I can, for whatever reason, because of my value or whatever, because of face. But I couldn't any more. And I remember going to school like walking to the bus stop and taking the bus and just so filled with grief and sadness that I don't know how I would be able to pay attention in class. And of course, as a student classes, everything like your grades are your whole life. And God forbid, you know, my dad passing away and me going through a breakup, that's going to affect my grades. Like I can't let that happen. And that was when I'm like, okay, well, if I can't do this by myself, then I'm going to need some support. And that was probably the first time I revisited mental health support. since, since I was young, because I was really against mental health professionals, because as you know, They gave me a not great first impression.

Angie Yu: 7:21

And how did you take that with you into your following relationship?

Kristy Yee: 7:27

I did it because after I saw, I think they were like school counselors or whatnot. I have no idea what their designations are. after I saw them a few times, I, I don't know it, maybe it just didn't work out. I don't really remember much of it. I felt like it wasn't as helpful at the time. And so I just went back to what I did ignore, ignore, ignore. I didn't tell anybody that I was seeing a school counselor because embarrassment

Angie Yu: 7:57

you felt ashamed.

Kristy Yee: 7:59

yeah. And I still wanted to keep up with that, you know, facade of I'm strong, I'm strong, independent woman. I can do all of this, you know, And so I didn't take any lessons learned to my next relationship and I just ignore, ignore, ignore. Like, I don't have a mental health problem. I don't need to think about that.

Angie Yu: 8:19

what was the timeframe between when your dad passed away and when you start, seeking help to this point, I see you

Kristy Yee: 8:28

say that again. I know. like between, when my dad passed away, when I looked for support, is that right?

Angie Yu: 8:38

Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 8:39

less than a year, but when I looked for support, it really wasn't, for my dad passing away, it wasn't about processing grief. It was more like, yo, I just got out of this relationship and I'm feeling really shitty about it. I think Okay. So here's the thing I talked about. Like ignore, ignore, ignore than like sort of seeing a counselor, nothing really happened. Then ignore, ignore, ignore. I was ignoring because one face, I don't want people to know that I have a mental illness and I didn't really want to accept that I have a mental illness. I just pretended like that chapter of my life didn't exist when I went to the hospital. However, in every relationship that I've ever been in and I am a serial monogamous and all of my relationships are long-term relationships. so that means I just haven't dated around. Like, I don't know what that means. every single one of those relationships I have eventually told them that, oh, I had. Went to the hospital before, like this thing had happened to me because it's a, it's a, it's a dark shadow in my life. But if this person is going to be the most important person in my life, I'd like them to know that. So eventually they all knew this story of me. and then I always feel like, do they think less of me? Do they think I'm crazy? Do they think I'm too much to handle? Am I going like, is this going to affect my relationship negatively? That has always loomed in the back of my mind. And to be really honest, it still does today in my current relationship.

Angie Yu: 10:28

right. And how can it not because this is something that affects. Every day. Do you communicate with your current partner about this kind of stuff? I know that when you had your very depressive, episode before you re-enrolled into your master's program. Cause I know you have been admitted and you decided to turn it down. And so during this depressive episode, he was there for you, What about the day-to-day? And I don't mean like every single day, but you know what I mean? Like the more consistent support, the more consistent communication about your mental health

Kristy Yee: 11:03

Yeah. So if I'm having a particularly low mood day, I will tell you. But I I'm concerned that one day it'll be too much to handle, even though he hasn't displayed any signs of that. You know what I mean? Like he's been very supportive. I think at the beginning, especially at the beginning of my depressive episode last year, I sighed because I didn't know what to call it, but that's what we're going to call it. Now. I could see that he took initiative because he didn't, I don't think he really understood depression or even understood the importance of mental health, et cetera. And I could see that he was doing research on his own. It wasn't like, he told me it was like, Hey, I'm like looking this shit up. Right. But I, I can see that he, he kind of changed his behavior in a more supportive way, rather than trying to like, tell me what to do, you know, like trying to fix the problem. Right. he will ask me like, you know, tell me more, you know, just like little things like that, that I'm like, that's not something that he would normally say, but he said that. So, you know, and then like little, little clues like that. I'm like, I feel like he's Googling,

Angie Yu: 12:24

Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 12:25

he's doing some background Googling on like how to be supportive when you're dating someone who has

Angie Yu: 12:31

Yeah. It

Kristy Yee: 12:32

what I mean?

Angie Yu: 12:32

it. Yeah. And you know what? That's really sweet. And I think that shows that it, it's not gonna get too much for him. Of course. That's just conjecture. Right? Like it shows that the first thing he's going to do when you're in these moods is not running away. No, he's not going to go out for milk and never come back. And that

Kristy Yee: 12:59

That's hella sad.

Angie Yu: 13:00

I,

Kristy Yee: 13:01

Woo

Angie Yu: 13:02

I know, that he's actually gonna his first step is to see how he can support. Have you told him that you appreciate that?

Kristy Yee: 13:15

Yes. But now that you said it, maybe I don't say it enough, thank you for that. Oh, now I'm going to do some validation over there on that end. Other things, you mentioned day to day, right? So if there are certain days, sometimes I just have certain days where I'm not in a depressive state, like I'm not, you know, lying in bed for two months, but I just, I'm in low mood for maybe two, three days. Right. I will tell him about it. And I think at this point, because, you know, it's, we've been doing this podcast, we're so much more engrossed in the mental health awareness that I feel like I'm more sensitive to my own needs. So I'm a little, you know, I noticed it earlier if I'm, if I'm dipping in the moods, so I will let him know. And, and he'll, he'll be helpful in that, you know, he'll be like, Hey, why don't you go for a walk, you know, or suggest something that I actually enjoy, that could help lift the mood up kind of a thing without trying to like, solve all my problems. You know what I mean? Just like making gentle suggestions and reminders of like, Hey, like, Like there's, you could always meditate. Go for, he always, usually, tells me to like, go for a walk, just like go outside and breathe some fresh air type of thing. So that's kind of the day to day. But having said that, I still think about after every text, I'm like, at what point will it become too much for him to handle? At what point will he stop suggesting I go out for a walk that's my own insecurities, I haven't really. It's probably something I should work on, but I'm not actively working on it. I got all the things going on. Right. And we can only work on so many things at the same time.

Angie Yu: 15:17

yeah, of course. And that's when you said that earlier, when you were rolling. You'll wonder, like at what point he's just going to be like, this is too much to handle when you said that my heart like skipped a beat because that's also my concern. Especially every time I act like an asshole, I'm just like F like, fuck, like he's so patient. And like, he's so understanding, and I'm such an asshole, like at one point, he'd just be like, fuck this shit. Right. And, that's, that's something that kind of sits in the back of my mind too. And when something triggers it, the insecurities around that just like really, really highlights that really hard. And I would actually say that even though our timelines are different, the triggers of our search for healing and, our fears are pretty much the.'cause when I started my mental health journey, like same thing. when I talked about my childhood, back in an earlier episode in season one, when I was 10 or nine or something, and I had walked into traffic. I also was like, ignore, ignore, ignore to the point where I like, totally forgot about it. And by forgot, I mean, I, my mind subconsciously repressed it because it was too painful to think about. So like ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore. there were definitely signs here and there, you know, like when we were making mother's day cards in grade six we were doing it on those old IBM computers. Do you remember? And then you would open up that like paint. I don't kind of remember it was paint and then you.

Kristy Yee: 17:04

Like kid picks. Oh,

Angie Yu: 17:07

random stickers and stuff on

Kristy Yee: 17:09

the best, the best.

Angie Yu: 17:11

if I just unlocked a memory for a bunch of our listeners?

Kristy Yee: 17:14

fucking loves computer class kid picks all the right type I'm

Angie Yu: 17:18

Yes. That's that's I think that's what it was. but we were making cards and we were printing them out and I wrote, thanks mom, for bringing me into this cold cruel world. And I was like 11 or something like that. And then I remember my friend, she like took a look at the car. She started laughing. She's like, why would you write that? Or like, like, that's she just laughed? I don't know. Cause I guess she appreciated the dark humor or whatever, but I totally met. Like it was not a joke from me whatsoever. and again, that was something that I didn't remember for a long time as well. And, yeah, just always like repress repress, repress, ignore, ignore, ignore. And it was when my friend passed away. my friend, well, who I have mentioned before he took his own life. So the grief around that was, it was almost like it was grief for him, but then also just fear for my own life. And I remember after that had happened, I was in the middle of like studying for an exam and that exam just completely, like, it was just not priority anymore. And it was walking through the streets to meet my friend. I just remember looking up, I was like downtown. I just remember looking up past the buildings into the sky. And I was like, what is the point of all this? Because he, on the surface, he was. The perfect Chinese son. He was going to law school at Harvard, like checked all the boxes and he was still absolutely depressed. So how can someone like him be so unhappy? How can I be happy? And there were these little moments where it's like, I obviously need help. And in my last relationship, there were even times when I remember instead of like wanting to hang out with friends or coworkers after work, I was just like, I just want to go home and sit on the couch. And I think there was one point where my previous partner was like, I think you're just like, get some help. And I was like, what? No. like, it really angered me that he had brought that up. I'm fine. I can do this on my own. I can deal with all my own. I've been solving my own problems since I was a child. I'm fine. Right. and then of course, the end of that relationship was so ugly. and it was I got too much for him to handle and he decided to seek an alternative relationship. I don't know. He cheated basically, but it was a weird end to the relationship because he didn't even want out. It's like he was waiting for me to get better, but I wasn't getting better. when I ended that relationship, it was like, okay, so this person who I thought would be like, who used to put me on a pedal. Couldn't even handle my depression then who can handle it. Nobody. And I just went into this downward spiral and I remember talking to my friend, Betty, who I've known since first day of high school in homeroom. That's how we met. I like told her a bunch of things. I was like going on just like this rant. And she was like, have you ever considered going to therapy? And I think the way she phrased it was so different from the way my x-rays did. Right. My ex was like, I think you need help, which is very attacking. It doesn't come from a place of care. And kindness comes from a, from a place of selfishness. And in hindsight, yes, it did come from a place of selfishness. Whereas my friend who truly cared about my wellbeing. said, have you ever thought about seeking therapy? But the way that she had phrased it made me think, huh, have I ever considered it? Instead of defending myself towards an attack, it was kind of like, that's a good question. And that's what prompted me to seek help. And I, again, same thing, same thing as you, I went to see a counselor first and did nothing. I was like, you know what? I don't need therapy. I'm totally fine. Because my facade, I was able to trick the counselor into thinking I was totally.'cause I was so good. I was so good at putting up that front. I had been doing it my whole life. I was so good at it. but then I knew I needed help. So I decided to look further for like somebody who had an expertise in this area. And that's how I found my therapist. And that started my journey.

Kristy Yee: 22:06

so one takeaway from that is don't give up after the first time you try to go seek help and no hate for counselors. Okay. It just, it just so happened that I was looking at a counselor and Andrew looked in a counselor and just didn't work out. No hate on counselors. the other thing that I really loved is you recognize the difference between how your, your ex had responded and how your. Had responded. And I think that says a lot because a lot of our insecurities and the insecurities that you mentioned is if he can't handle me, who else in this world can, if even he cannot love me then who else can love me, but I don't think he loved you that much.

Angie Yu: 22:53

I don't think so either.

Kristy Yee: 22:55

So it's, I don't think you should be using that as an example for anything. Like, it's not a, not very reliable

Angie Yu: 23:02

Source of information. I'm in like, I'm in, like at the end of that relationship. That's what I had thought obviously now that I've, you know, had distanced myself from that relationship. And I can think about it from a more rational perspective. Like that was not real love. It was selfish, it was abusive emotionally. It was not real love. So, but it was like, it took me to love myself to realize that. And, yeah, so, so because of that, I was able to take that into my current relationship.

Kristy Yee: 23:46

so I want to know, because you started your mental health journey, like right after this X, and now you have grown so much more as a human, as someone who understands yourself a little bit more and taking that into a new relationship. How I have many questions, how differently would you say compared to. You're a previous relationship and your current relationship, like what were some of the lessons that you have taken or some of the things that you've learned through your mental health journey that has, shown a difference in the way that you've handled both of these relationships?

Angie Yu: 24:32

Oh, my God. It's like the complete 180, like it's so it's exactly the opposite.

Kristy Yee: 24:37

Okay. Go on.

Angie Yu: 24:41

Well, like I did go on, I was dating in between on and off. And I remember I did go on a date with someone a couple of times, or I can't remember how many times, but I really liked him. and he seemed interested and he was really kind person. And I told them right off the bat, like, Hey, I'm not working right now. I'm taking a leave from work to, you know, get my mind healed, will get my just heal basically. And he completely understood that. And he was not, he didn't show any sort of stigma towards it. and we were making, we were trying to make plans for our third date and he kind of went quiet on me and I was like, oh no, You know, you get that gut feeling. Of course my friends are like, oh, you know, like, just give him some time, like you just saw him recently, like blah, blah, blah. And, so we had made plans and then he kind of went back on his plan. He say, texted me and said, look, I think you're a great girl, but I don't think you're ready for dating or for our relationship. And I was like, oh shit. And of course, like he set that very straightforward. He was honest. Like, that's something that honestly, in the, in the era of all my dating more than what a lot of people do. so in hindsight, I obviously appreciate it, but when it happened, I was a mess. I cried so hard and I talked to my therapist about it. I'm like, I'm unlovable, I'm on lovable. Like, nobody can love me like this. And, After that I was just like, okay, no more, no more dating. I still went on dates here and there just mostly for the practice and the social liability or whatever. Like, I really didn't take many of them that seriously. I think also a lot of it was because I was cheated on and I realized that it wasn't real love. I need to, I needed to prove to myself that I was indeed desirable. So I was going a lot of dates for that. and it was a lot of, it was for self-esteem as well. and through that period of time, I was just worked on myself a lot. I worked on getting into a relationship with myself as cheesy as that sounds, but that's what I did. And I was. I was doing gray. So I'm like, you know what, a time to go back into the dating scene again, cause I'm doing great. And you know, like, you know, of blood going on first days, whatever. a friend even tried to set me up and then I met my current partner and on our second day when I realized I liked him a lot and I could see this going somewhere, I told him straight away I have bipolar. And I mentioned this in a previous episode as well. He said he really appreciated that. So right off the bat, I figured there's no point in delaying telling him he should know right off the bat that this is what he's getting himself into. And I told him, I was like, my biggest fear is dying alone. And he was like, yeah, I think me too. And I guess that made me realize, Hey, that's probably. A lot of people's fear. Right. If it's yeah, exactly. and I would say the relationship still got off to a Rocky start and I didn't really talk to my therapist that much about the relationship because every, like, there's all these good hormones, right? Like all the excitement of the new relationship. And I felt like I was fine, but really that was just all the good hormones replacing my normal. Like it, it basically lifted up my baseline because of all the happiness. And then when our first fight happened, I was like, fuck, I'm on lovable. So I finally went to, my therapist was like, this is what's happening. I suck. Nobody's going to love me. the die alone. And, we started going through kind of the works again, working through all that stuff, because I, at that point I was like, oh, I know how to love myself. I know how to be alone. I was healthy being alone, but then I still don't have, don't know how to be healthy in a relationship. So then I started going back to see her again, more often on this new journey on life. And, with her help and with a lot of homework, I was able to integrate that into my current relationship, but not to say there wasn't a lot of problems. Like I was such an asshole in so many ways and he was incredibly patient with me.

Kristy Yee: 29:12

what was one, give, give us an example of one memorable piece of homework that you have.

Angie Yu: 29:21

it was expressing my needs in a relationship. because I think this comes from a very cultural perspective and my therapist is from the same culture. apparently these things that I was doing, like, I would just tell her like, oh, this is what happened. what the fuck? And she would be like, it sounds like to me, like you are giving him a lot of tests. And I was like, oh, damn. Oh, damn. I'm like, yeah, I think you're right. I think these tests are like my way of seeing if he will love me

Kristy Yee: 29:57

you're almost like setting him up hoping that yes. But then hoping that the results will validate your yeah.

Angie Yu: 30:09

absolutely. It was like a vicious cycle because the more I did that, the more unlovable I became. Right. Who

Kristy Yee: 30:15

And then the more you believe that you're unlovable, it's like you, you are. Yes. You're setting him for failure, but you're really actually trying to set yourself up for failure. You're trying to prove to yourself that, Hey, it's true. I'm not lovable. Like, look, look at, look at what's happening.

Angie Yu: 30:32

Yeah. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy. And what my therapist said was like, if you keep testing him, there's no way he's gonna pass all those tests. And you're, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. It's not fair to him because our relationship is not about constant tests. and it's not healthy and it's not a healthy way to meet your needs. And I was like, oh, damn.

Kristy Yee: 30:58

down.

Angie Yu: 30:59

Yeah. So I was given the homework of like how to. Express my feelings, how to express what I need, which is like, I don't know how to, I still struggle with that. We just, I was never taught and we don't do that in our

Kristy Yee: 31:15

Yeah, because we don't talk about our needs.

Angie Yu: 31:17

No, like what does that even mean? Right. so yeah, that, I unfortunately brought a lot of past trauma into my new relationship. and the first, like when the glass shattered, things got pretty bad and pretty Rocky. and, and the reason why I told, him right off the bat that I have both bipolar was I met him shortly after I was diagnosed with bipolar and I was waiting to see a psychiatrist about it. So I told him, I'm like, Hey, I know. I was recently diagnosed with this. Apparently these are all the things that might affect our relationship and he was completely understanding of it. but I definitely brought a lot of stuff into it and I brought a lot of past trauma into it. And one of the things of being like, Hey, am I unlovable? Is he talking to other girls? Is he looking for alternatives? Because I'm unlovable and someone without a mental illness, someone who's not me would be so much easier to love than me because I'm unlovable.

Kristy Yee: 32:35

so I needed to do that because those are exactly the thoughts that go through my head. It would be so much easier for him. He would be so much happier in another relationship with someone who's quote unquote normal. I don't have any wise things to say right now because I'm just sitting right next to you in the same thoughts and same feelings.

Angie Yu: 33:06

yeah, it's uncomfortable.

Kristy Yee: 33:09

And it's, and we don't have a solution to this because we are still working on this ourselves. You asked me about the day to day. I'm going to ask you about the daily.

Angie Yu: 33:25

I'm starting to recognize some of my. Never really recognized them before. I didn't realize how much I appreciate alone time, because my last relationship was so codependent and, my ex was so possessive that I thought it was natural. And you know, throughout my life I've always had somebody, there to kind of ease my emotional burden and that person was my mom. And because of that, I expected that if somebody loved me, they would help me ease my emotional burden, but that's not healthy. And that sets up a child up for failure. Not that I'm saying it's my mom's fault. It's just, that's how I was raised. And I realized that I can't, I need to step up and draw some boundaries for her. So that I can be more independent emotionally.

Kristy Yee: 35:27

I love what you just said there. And I'm going to paraphrase is that. Is that we shouldn't expect the people that we love to carry our emotional burdens. That is not how someone shows that they love you. And I think that's really powerful because sometimes I find that I am the most assholey meanest person to the people that I love the most.

Angie Yu: 36:01

me too. Tell me why you think.

Kristy Yee: 36:05

I feel like it's because one, They love me so they can handle it. You know, like they're going to, basically my mom, she's going to love me no matter what, you know, so I can be an asshole. And then also, I don't know if this is a subconscious thing that I do, but it, it it's like I tell myself I don't deserve love. So then I do things to push people away. And I, and I'm thinking specifically, like my partners now, because they're not obligated to love me. Like my mom is they can go away at time.

Angie Yu: 36:54

That's right. It's conditional. It's absolutely conditional.

Kristy Yee: 36:57

So, but they are like the, you know, when I'm dating this person, they are the closest person to me. Right. Like, I, I. Yeah. And maybe I'm I think to myself, like I don't deserve that love, or I don't deserve to have someone love me so much, or I don't deserve for me to love someone so much that I take them for granted and therefore I become an asshole and then I do things that will push them away so that I can prove to myself that I am unlovable

Angie Yu: 37:35

yes, that's right.

Kristy Yee: 37:37

fucking cycles.

Angie Yu: 37:38

I, it feel the exact same way that when the people closest to me always gets hurt. And like I had this boundary issue where I treated somebody as if they were family. This is, somebody that I saw as a sister, like an older sister. And it was a relationship that was pretty much like a family, but the thing is with Chinese families that we don't know how to draw boundaries, properly emotional boundaries. And we expect to be for the other person to share the emotional burden. And of course, that got too much because that's absolutely unhealthy for any type of friendship. It's also unhealthy for familial relationships like with your parents. So that ended badly as well. And after that, I was like, well, fuck that shit. I can't friends though. Even love me, let alone like a partner. but having dropped that emotional laborer,

Kristy Yee: 38:39

Like being the emotional labor.

Angie Yu: 38:41

Like having, having lost that. I wouldn't say it's support cause it's not support it's, it's having lost that crutch was healthier for the other person. So in hindsight, I don't understand why they had to end the friendship, but also for my side, my therapist never said anything about these friendships, but when that ended, she asked me, how do you feel now when you have to deal with your own emotions? And I said, I feel more confident. And that's when I realized I had to draw those boundaries with my mom as well, because it's not healthy. I have to take care of my own emotional. No matter what Chinese culture says. Right. And, fuck, where was I going with this? Oh. And so when I got into a relationship, I think this is like very universal is that whatever dynamic we learn with our parents, we tried to emulate that in our adult relationships. And so I was looking for somebody to help me with my emotional burden. Of course was subconscious. It's not like I sought out somebody who would be able to do that for me. But I remember, there was one time where I felt really sad for absolutely no reason. I just felt sad. Right. Like one of my sad, low points and I called the, my current partner, I called my boyfriend and I was like, Hey, are you doing? And I called them for no reason. I'm just like, I don't know. I feel weird. like, like you sound sad. I'm like, yeah, He's like, oh, I'm sorry that you're sad. And that made me so disappointed that he said, I'm sorry or sad because he's not trying to do the emotional labor for me. Isn't that fucked up. And that fucked up that I expected that. And I was like, oh my God, he doesn't love me. That was my first reaction was like, oh my God, he doesn't love me because he doesn't want to help me deal with this. And then I let him go on the phone and I felt like, shit, I didn't feel like shit because he set the right thing obviously. But I felt like shit, because I was like, oh my God, he doesn't love me. Which is absolutely not true. Right. Because he didn't say, I don't love you. That's not what he said. But I made this conclusion. I jumped to this conclusion because we were raised to think that if you love somebody, you do their emotional burden for them. So as the relationship went. Every time this happened, I questioned whether he loves me or not, until it did get too much for him. And we broke up for a week. But for me, that was kind of like, we quote unquote broke up, but it was more like a big fight because I'm not good at fights. Cause because if we have a fight, then I think the other person's going to leave me and then I don't react properly instead of actually talking it out and working through the fight. I just do whatever it takes to get them back.

Kristy Yee: 42:02

Yeah. Instead of using the logical side, all of that, all the past trauma that you have had, especially from your previous relationship resurfaces again, and then the emotional side, just like completely.

Angie Yu: 42:16

yeah, that's right. That's right. And yeah, I remember when we had a fight, all he needed was space. He even asked me for. I just couldn't give it to him because I was just so scared. And then finally I was like, okay, I'll I need to give you space. So I went into the bathroom and I cried and I don't know in my mind I thought that he would come and make sure I was okay, but that's not how he handles fights. He needs time alone to think it through and then talk. But I was just, I had this like childish expectation that if I'm in danger, whether that's emotional or physical, that somebody is going to come and rescue me, somebody is going to come and rescue me from my own thoughts. And of course nobody's going to do that. So then over time I had to rescue my self from my own thoughts. And that's still something that I have to do when those thoughts.

Kristy Yee: 43:17

I have felt similar things. I have been in similar situations where I expect that the person is going to come run after me and check on me and then hug me and cuddle me and tell me that they love me and that I'm going to be okay. And that I can just be babies because that is how they should be showing their love for me. That is how it proves to me that they care about me. And then when they don't do that, it feels like it's affirming that I'm not lovable, but in reality, They needed space themselves to work on their own thoughts and their own emotions, because there are also another human being that have

Angie Yu: 44:06

their own needs.

Kristy Yee: 44:07

shit.

Angie Yu: 44:08

Exactly.

Kristy Yee: 44:11

And it's, it's, it's so selfish of me to expect another person to drop everything, to drop their own wellness and their own well-being to care for mine. When the situation is hurting us both

Angie Yu: 44:32

absolutely. Yeah, but the thing is when you go through that and when you it's completely subconscious, it's not like you go out wanting to hurt the other person where use the other person for emotional labor. And that's something I realized I'm recovering from that friendship breakup where, it was a very unhealthy relationship with somebody who I saw as a sister. And I remember my mom, when I told my mom about everything that went down, she said, You know, friends are friends, you can't treat them like family. I was like that quote, doesn't jive with me because you shouldn't treat family like that either. But my mom's saying that also shows how much she calls me. that's when I was like, oh shit, my mom does coddle me and I need to draw those boundaries for her own sake. So as much as you know, there were ugly breakups relationship and friendships, in the past few years of my life. And it was, they were all very painful to go through, but I think I needed that. And obviously, like, I don't feel good about putting somebody through my assholeness, but I think that has really opened up to how to do my own emotional labor. And I'm learning how to do that in my current relationship too. And when I say learning is because it's a forever journey like the other day, the other week, I was in a really low mood. And I didn't know why. I guess, because it had been a while since I had that low mood, because I had been so busy with raising a puppy that I forgotten how to deal with these thoughts that come to my mind where these low moods, where my mood, just all of a sudden deaths and there aren't even any thoughts. It just low point, like mood not good.

Kristy Yee: 46:54

yes, like you are. So you are so entrenched in taking care of your puppy, taking care of another organism that you forgot what it was like to take care of yourself. And as people. Manage mental illness day to day, low moods can just come out of fucking nowhere. And I can't speak for you, but I'm going to use the definition of bipolar. Like you're, you're, it's a pendulum, right? And, and as part of the pendulum, you're gonna swing into low mood territory. And that just fucking happens, you know?

Angie Yu: 47:32

Yeah. And my pendulum swings like, overly it violently, but of course it has calmed down because I'm on medication and I'm changed my lifestyle. But, yeah, I just felt like low mood and I totally forgot. I was like, what the fuck is this? So I started blaming my. like, we don't go out enough. We don't spend enough quality time together. You don't take me out on dates anymore. And I was just

Kristy Yee: 47:57

oh my God.

Angie Yu: 47:58

asshole because those things were true, but that's not why I was in a low mood. I was trying to figure out why I was in a low mood, like, because it is true because we were busy raising a puppy. Like our romantic life had taken a step back. But then for some reason I was blaming him. And I, you know, went through the whole thing, but, Fuck. I totally forgot that I'm bipolar and that I have these moments where I'm low mood and like, instead of like blaming other people, I need to like, be like, okay, why like what let's be mindful. Right. Like, totally forgot about that stuff. so that's like an example of a day to day, like is how I approach these little moves. And of course, like when that happened again, when I was like, oh, I'm not feeling so great. So I decided to like go to bed early that night when I was not feeling so good. do some reading in bed and just like, I was totally fine the next day

Kristy Yee: 48:53

I think what's difficult is trying to tease out, is it me? Or is it the relationship? And I like things like, oh, not spending a lot of quality time together, not going out on dates like that. That is going to take a toll on the relationship because it takes effort to, you know, keep the spark alive, keep it interesting. Keep it fun, et cetera. And I think that is a responsibility that comes from both. The difference here is that your low mood wasn't actually, because of those things, you just attributed it to it. Like that was your first instinctive thought is to, oh, it's not me, it's them, you know? And it could be that part of your brain that's, you know, subconsciously trying to sabotage you, right. The whole vicious cycle that we were talking about. That could be part of it. I do want to point out, you know, for our listeners pay attention, like, see, is it, is it you? Or is it the relationship? You know? Cause I don't want people to also be taken advantage by their partners. I don't want to give permission for the other person to Gaslight you. Don't let people be like, oh, that's, that's just your bipolar talking

Angie Yu: 50:05

Right, right,

Kristy Yee: 50:05

or that's just your depression talking. That's all you. Yeah. So I think there's a, there's a difference in, you know, trying to figure out is it, is it actually me and my subconscious thoughts and the things that I am working on? Or are they gaslighting you I think in your situation, you know, the example that you gave was different because you were like, okay, I'm going to journal. I'm going to do the things in my toolbox. And then you figure it out. You're like, Hey, you know what I do feel better now. Like that was actually pretty selfish of me to just completely throw the blame on you and point the finger at you when really I just needed to like, oh yeah, I have bipolar. I should, I should probably use some of the things that I have learned. And. Try to, mediate that that's the difference, right? It's like, you're like, okay, you stop you pause, you questioned you did something about it. And then you're like, okay. And then you apologized. Whereas if the situation is they are gaslighting you and then you stop and pause and question and you're like, Hmm, no, that doesn't feel right. Or if you use your toolbox and it doesn't work. And you're like, no, I still feel like something is off. Or I feel like, you know, go with a gut, right? Red flags, these things then revisit that conversation with your partner and then be confident that it's no, it's, it's not me. It's something going on with our relationship and we should have a conversation.

Angie Yu: 51:36

that's right. And an example of that would be, when I was suspicious of my ex, I was like, oh, you have these new friends that you've never introduced me to. and also you told me that you drove alone to this like group gathering, but then I found some stuff in the backseat and he was like, I can't believe you a question questioned me like that. And there was another time where I was like, Hm, something doesn't feel right. Like, I'm not feeling so good about this. And he just said, I think that's her anxiety acting up. So that would be an example of gaslighting because you're trying to have a conversation about something and somebody immediately dismisses your concerns and throws the whole like, oh, you all you have, it's like your anxiety or depression or your bipolar.

Kristy Yee: 52:24

they're being very defensive and then using your illness as a weapon against yourself. Again.

Angie Yu: 52:30

to, to make you question yourself rather than to actually have a conversation. Whereas when this was coming up, when I was blaming my boyfriend for like these things, it wasn't even, like I went up to him was like, you, you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're I wasn't yelling at him. I just said, look, I feel like, kind of sad lately. this is how I feel. And he would just be like, Hm, like, I'm sorry you feel that way. And that made me go, wow. You know, rather than like, it's not like he blamed me for anything. He, he didn't even mention my mental illness. I think that's, that's a big, that's how I was thinking. I think that's what made me go. Hm. That was not the kind of reaction I was expecting. I was expecting to be yelled at or to be gaslighted, but,

Kristy Yee: 53:18

Or to be carrying your emotional

Angie Yu: 53:21

right. So it was that's right. And it wasn't what I had normally experienced. Right. It may my neuron pathway switch to a different response. So instead of responding how I used to respond in these situations, I responded in a new way that worked out for me. So that's, I guess that's an example of like day to day as well. When, when you do have like things like triggers and PTSD and. Things that make you feel really insecure.

Kristy Yee: 53:58

and that's just it, right? Like you have come a really long way from your last relationship to where you are at now. We are continuing to practice and grow and, you know, these are just some examples and stories of our lives. It doesn't mean. This is the way you should do things. Or this is like the most perfect thing. We're, we're trying to figure this out ourselves. And we, Angie and I have our insecurities as well. I think the difference is we are now trying to recognize that these are our insecurities. We recognize that, oh, we, we expect other people to carry our emotional shit and be coddled. And maybe that's not the most healthiest thing, like starting to have these realizations is going to help us move forward and managing our own relationships and preserving our relationships. We don't have the answers to everything, but we just want to say that we continue to practice

Angie Yu: 55:03

and I think like what keeps us practicing and like what keeps us in check is that we don't want to hurt our loved ones anymore. Like, we don't want to hurt them. I don't want to be an asshole. I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to hurt my mom. I don't want to hurt my friends. That's the last thing I want to do. And even though I had no intentions of partying, my friends, my actions didn't hurt. So it doesn't matter what my intentions were. I now need to find ways where my actions won't hurt my loved ones. And that's one thing that, you know, if you're listening to this and you are a caretaker and not caretaker, as in like you do the emotional labor, but as in, you're in a relationship with someone who does have these insecurities and not even necessarily a mental illness, but these insecurities or these past traumas from past relationships, you know, make sure you're drawing the right boundaries, make sure you are confident in your own needs and make sure you feel appreciated for everything that you do, because it is not easy. And it goes both ways. Like I'm sure there's a reason why our boyfriends love us. I'm sure we do things. I'm sure we do things to make them feel loved too. And I'm sure they have their own insecurities. Like maybe they won't. For us

Kristy Yee: 56:24

I, that is a really great point. We all have insecurities. A lot of times we just think about our own and we forget that other people have them too. We forget that they also have emotional needs. We forget that they also need to have space. We forget that they also need to process and think about things and work on their own mental health as well.

Angie Yu: 56:52

yeah.

Kristy Yee: 56:53

are not everybody has mental health and mental wellbeing to pay attention to. And sometimes we forget that and I think that's a great reminder and a great way to wrap up today's episode.

Angie Yu: 57:07

yes.

Kristy Yee: 57:09

So today we shared some stories. Is there something you wanted to add?

Angie Yu: 57:14

No, I just, right now, I just want to go outside and give my boyfriend a hug and be like, Hey, I appreciate you.

Kristy Yee: 57:20

oh.

Angie Yu: 57:21

since like, like he's a huge vitamins guy. So at nighttime, he always like, takes all his vitamins and he always takes my pills out for

Kristy Yee: 57:28

Oh see. That's that's that's real nice.

Angie Yu: 57:32

Yeah. Right. Isn't it. That's so that's why I'm like, sometimes when I'm an asshole, I'm like, how can I be an asshole to him? Right. Anyway.

Kristy Yee: 57:40

And then every day we just work on, work on ourselves and work on our relationship and that's all that we can.

Angie Yu: 57:47

that's right. So if you came here to find a quick solution to how to be lovable in a relationship, sorry, but there's no shortcut.

Kristy Yee: 57:58

wow. It took them an hour to listen to find that out.

Angie Yu: 58:02

Yup. Psych I'm just kidding. you know, yeah. Sorry. There is no shortcut. You just have to put in the work.

Kristy Yee: 58:11

great.

Angie Yu: 58:11

listening.

Kristy Yee: 58:12

See you next episode. Bye. Oh, Mike. So I just went on a WhatsApp, right. And John just sent me a message saying there's a major gas leak in my room.

Angie Yu: 58:59

he's not talking about flatulence, right?

Kristy Yee: 59:03

Oh, maybe.