50. How to Heal from Childhood Trauma as a Vietnamese-American Daughter going into Motherhood ft. Tam Tran

Tam is in the “middle generation”. The balance between talking about mental health with her parents and learning how to teach her son to be in tune with his mental well-being. We discuss:

• her parents talking her out of using therapy
• people-pleasing tendencies as a survival tactic
• how to be there for other people but also set boundaries for your own emotions
• create space to process instead of suppressing your emotions 
• childhood bullying trauma 

Bonus: Kristy and Angie get their Oracle cards read for the first time

"I so much want to be the obedient good daughter to them, but I don't wanna do it at the expense of my own health.” - Tam Tran

Find Tam:

• www.stigmafreemovement.com
• Instagram @stigmafreemovement

Resources & Mentions:

• Oracle Deck by Rebecca Campbell (cards)
• The High 5 Habit by Mel Robins (book) 

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Transcript

Tam Tran: 0:00

I realize that that trauma or that those problems are not mine, but I'm trying to be this hero. Right. this people pleaser to help them. And I realize that, you know, I need to stay in my own lane. and that I need to also create the boundaries for myself to say no. And that for me, these last few years have been so hard to do. And the hardest shift for me. And I'll be very honest is how do I carry that into motherhood?

Kristy: 0:51

Okie doke. So welcome to another episode of shit. We don't tell mom today. We have Tamran joining us. She is a Vietnamese American born, Vietnamese, American born and raised in the bay area. She loves being outdoors, playing sports, going on food adventures, which I love with her two little dudes besides raising little humans and working in corporate marketing. She is also a wellness coach, helping first gen Americans overcome stress and anxiety. Naturally. Her biggest hope is that the taboo nest of mental health and stigma will be gone by the time her kids start growing up. So welcome to the show. Tam.

Tam Tran: 1:31

Thank you Kristy. So great to be here. super excited, just, you know, this is a really topic that's near and dear to my heart and just excited to dive in with you both.

Kristy: 1:40

I really wanted to chat with you about Tam is, I was gonna say new parent, but I don't know a young, how do, how

Tam Tran: 1:46

young mom,

Kristy: 1:47

young mom?

Tam Tran: 1:48

young mom. Mm-hmm

Kristy: 1:50

we're like in that generation of, raising new families, young families, and I've been curious because I am someone who, who's working on my own mental health and then trying to get my

Ep 50 - Kristy: 2:03

mom

Kristy: 2:03

involved in it. And it sounds like you have done a little bit of work on that too, with your parents, how do you do that work with your family, from the older generation, but also start instilling some of that wisdom to your kiddies as well, being in that middle generation, so to speak, like, what is

Tam Tran: 2:20

that like for

Kristy: 2:20

you.

Tam Tran: 2:21

yeah, my journey started probably about a little over a decade. it was definitely at that time, very much huge stigma about speaking up about having depression and. Any type of anxiety really. And, you know, I was gonna therapy for a number of reasons, but, you know, I, I wanted to just really work on myself cause I felt that, you know, I graduated from college, had a really great paying job and I just didn't feel fulfilled or happy. And I think that part really just kind of sparked me and said, Hey, you know what, something's going on? Something much deeper. a lot of trauma that I just don't think I really sort it through. So I decided to go to therapy. So that's where I started. And when I, when I was in therapy, a lot of the topics that came out was from a lot of the unresolved trauma of childhood that I just didn't, you know, have a safe space to process. And that for me was kind of the catalyst to say, this really needs to change. Like I need to speak up about my story. so I thought I should tell my, my parents about this. And so, I remember the day and time when I had my dad, we were getting lunch and I, you know, openly said to him, I said, this is. Really hard for me to share, but, I wanted to know like, I'm, I'm gonna therapy right now. And, you know, just started to like cry and immediately, he was just like, what do you mean? Like, and he kind of took it like the wrong way. he kind of took it where he, he just said like, well, what did I do wrong? Like it almost offended him. Cuz he's like, you know, I, I did all these things like, and it became more about him than it was about me. And at that point in time, I just kind of started like withdrawal and retract about what I wanted to share. and I got scared, you know, I got scared about, you know, maybe this is a, a, a thing that maybe something's wrong with me. You know, I, I took it as part of my identity. Like I wore it like almost like a badge, like, oh, something's wrong with me? And I just shut down after that. And it was like the stigma that my parents and my dad actually just placed on. Mental health that I actually stopped going to therapy.

Kristy: 4:21

find it really interesting that, you know, your dad's first reaction was kind of self focused and,

Tam Tran: 4:28

Yeah.

Kristy: 4:29

self protecting.

Tam Tran: 4:31

Yeah.

Kristy: 4:32

what, what do you mean? What did I do wrong? Like, you know, I think you used the term defense as well, right? Especially when in a moment you are being vulnerable about you about yourself. You're, you're trying to share an experience that you are going through, but his reaction and his, the way he had interpreted the story was like an attack on him

Tam Tran: 4:54

And at that time, you know, I was in my early twenties. I didn't really have the language to. him understand. And obviously like being Vietnamese American, like I was trying to translate this like halfway, like in English, right. Like half Vietnamese, half English. Right. And they're like, he was just like, okay, I don't really understand. he knew what therapy meant, but he didn't understand why I was seeking external help for it versus like going to him and telling him about what was going on. And, you know, I wanted to have like a neutral perspective about why I was so, you know, emotional and, you know, borderline depressed. and I think he was like the external help and me going in that direction really offended him.

Kristy: 5:37

was almost like, okay, I don't know if this is related at all, but when you said keeping it inside, like keeping it internal, it reminded me of how some families in some Asian families and I'm sure other in other cultures as well, mental health is not something that is discussed at all. If there is anything, quote, unquote, like wrong with your mental health, then you keep that within the family. Like you're not gonna go out and tell everybody about it or like go out and seek therapy because now that's like external. Now you're exposing your family's like dirty laundry, so to speak. Right. So it, you know, the way that, I don't know if that's related at all to your story, but it, it me of how we try to keep this thing, like within the household, like literally within the boxes of, of the four walls so that other people cannot find out, you

Tam Tran: 6:26

exactly. Oh my God. Kristy. I'm getting like chills BEC as you say that, because. I literally could hear my parents' voice. Like don't air out our, like, you know, our drama to other people because you know, it's shameful, you know, and it was the shame. I think that they felt that I was again, like going out, telling random strangers about the problems that they're like, oh my God, they must think I'm horrible parents or blah, blah, blah. You know, whatever, what that mental chatter that was going on. totally getting chills right now. Cause that's exactly what happened for them. You know, and I, you know, was young. Like I, I didn't know exactly like how to process all of that. So I just kind of attracted and I stopped going to therapy after that. And it wasn't until maybe a decade later after having my first son Lucas, where I fell into like very deep postpartum depression. And I knew like right then and there, like, this is not the type of emotion and, and baggage. I wanted to carry into a new relationship with my son. and that was like, for me, I said, I ultimately want to have a different relationship, but I can't do that if I have. and I don't know what the right words are right now, but like, I, I didn't want to raise my kids the way that my parents raised me. And there was nothing wrong with my parents, the way they raised me, you know, they did the best they could, you know, they immigrated from the Vietnam war came here, you know, didn't speak a lick of English and they raised three kids, you know, perfectly while, and gave us everything we needed, but lacked the emotional support, because they just didn't have those tools and resources like we do now. And I said to myself as a mom, you know, I, I definitely wanna have a different relationship, but that relationship begins with me. And that was the thing that, you know, the last four or five years I've been working repair, which is a relationship to myself.

Angie: 8:17

I think that's really brave and really wise for you to come to the realization that, Hey, like, I don't, I don't know if this is the right word. Like you said, you were looking for the word, but I don't wanna be that. I don't wanna continue this. Like. I don't want my son to inherit the intergenerational trauma that I had. I want to at least reduce whatever I can so that things are easier for him. And I feel like, you know, our job as that kind of middle generation now I don't have any kids, but when I do think about my future children, if there are any, is that the best thing that we can do for them is to kind of, instill that instill that value and knowledge that Hey, like mental health is extremely important. Your own health comes first. Whereas our parents, they wanted to instill in us like work hard to make sure your security comes first. And that generational gap is, is huge. And it's really difficult for them to understand. And sometimes like, as you're saying this, I wish they could understand that. When you go out and seek help to make the next generation better, it means your parents did a good job raising you.

Tam Tran: 9:36

mm-hmm

Angie: 9:38

And I wish way for us to communicate that.

Tam Tran: 9:41

Yeah, other than using Google translate, I haven't quite figured out the you know, to to be like, how do I translate like all that to them in a way that the language in which they can speak, it brings me back to like, you know, the five level languages, right? And for them, it was very much a I'm gonna provide the security and, the physicalness of this reality to you, making sure you have a roof over your head, you're fed and you're you're safe. Right. But for me, I think my emotional need and love language was very much, you know, words of affirmation. And it came from a place of insecurity, you know, and I didn't realize that until pretty recent that a love language of, of words of affirmation really is to speak up and be open about what, whatever it is that you're going through, cuz it's not only something that our kids can learn from, but I wanted to understand them and why they. they were the way they were. And I think to some degree, despite the success that they have had, they still are in this, scarcity mindset that, Hey, you know, I'm still kind of operating from the lens of being still, you know, I'm in the Vietnam War still, and they still lack that security, even after giving us everything that they have wanted and that they also have, they are like in a place where they just don't have the ability to be satisfied and happy with what they have. And for me, you know, and where I'm going with this is that, that basic security and what you just said, Angie, and like also the safety net, you know, is what creates a space for people to openly talk up, you know, speak up and talk openly about, you know, these mental health challenges. And that's part of the, the, my mission and passion around, you know, destigmatizing, mental health it's through not just around stories, but normalizing our emotions and saying. I feel depressed today and there's nothing wrong with me, but I just, I just feel this way, you know, and just creating that safe space for people. So that's kind of where, where I've been in it. And I wish I could create that for them and their language, but it's been very much a barrier

Kristy: 11:45

have you, tried to communicate that with your, with your family, because I totally. Relate with the whole Google translate thing. I do that with my mom all of the time because we don't, we don't talk about mental health ever. Right. So I, I, I didn't learn those terms.

Tam Tran: 12:01

don't,

Kristy: 12:01

don't know how to say certain things or express certain emotions using that language because it wasn't used, I wasn't taught that language so I feel you with the Google translate have you told your parents about that or, or at least attempted to.

Tam Tran: 12:16

honestly, no, I think after my first episode of being vulnerable with them and sharing that, I've, I kind of have retracted from that. And I think it's because I'm afraid of hurting them and I haven't quite found the right words to be able to have that, you know, conversation because I think for them, there's also a lot of unresolved. Super suppressed emotions that are so lingering that they just don't even, I, I think that they don't even understand or possibly be even aware of. So they're almost like still stuck in, in their heads about how they feel. And at this point, like I've just learned to become more at peace with what has happened and knowing that, that cycle of what has happened with my family, it ends with me and, and there's this beautiful, like Instagram picture. I have to look it up, but there's literally a, like a shield where everything that, that, how they are raised, they kind of pass it on. Right. And they have passed that onto me. But parts of that, I don't wanna pass onto my kids because I don't want them to ever be afraid to be themselves. And that for me, like stigma free is truly like, how can we just be ourselves and be fully free to. be in that, in that space, you know, and feel that the world is not gonna reject us or judge us, you know, for who we are and how we act and what we believe in, because everyone's right to how they feel. But in, in today's day and age, when we speak up, there's so much of that stigma and I'm like, you know, how can we, how can I do that? And the only way I know how to do that is to be the living proof of that and embody those qualities for my kids.

Kristy: 14:02

And see, is why we connected because that's the whole reason why Angie and I started the podcast, right? We we're like we everybody's got shit. Everybody has got their own stories and traumas and vulnerabilities and emotions that we don't like to display outright because we're afraid of judgment because we're afraid of being stigmatized. And so Angie and I are like, well, should do it.

Tam Tran: 14:28

should to

Kristy: 14:29

start talking about our feelings and talking about our mental health and whether they are our wins or sometimes not so wins. And hopefully two things come out of that as one, it normalizes the, these types of conversations, first of all. And then second of all is hopefully it might encourage others to do the same, to be a little bit more open about their own vulnerabilities and feelings their own mental wellness.

Angie: 14:53

Yeah.

Tam Tran: 14:53

And

Angie: 14:53

I think one of the other great things about having these conversations, people are like, oh yeah, these conversations are had everywhere, but I think it's really important that we continue them because, you were both saying how like, oh, you don't have this language to talk to your parents about it. I didn't even have the language to talk to myself or to my friends about it. Like even in English, because I had no idea what emotions are or like what feelings are. I didn't even know the emotions and feelings are two different things. Like this is all stuff that I had to learn. well with me, for myself, I learned with the help of a therapist, how to actually. Communicate with my own thoughts and my own body. And I didn't even have the language for that. So

Tam Tran: 15:33

Mm-hmm

Angie: 15:34

just these conversations, these conversations are so important because if somebody doesn't have access to resources like that, then hopefully when they listen to, you know, our podcast where, you know, look through, look for resources, from your Instagram, your website, then they can start to plant these seeds in their

Tam Tran: 15:54

heads and to

Angie: 15:56

help themselves as well.

Tam Tran: 15:58

Yeah. Thank you both for sharing that. I, that was actually the reason why when I reached out, you know, I looked at the name and I was like, oh my God, there's so much shit that I not tell my mom. and I loved it and I, it totally resonated. And I love what you both are doing because truly this is this space that people need to feel comfortable to, to speak up whatever it is, because especially in, you know, our culture, my culture specifically. Right. I don't wanna generalize here, but speaking up is not a normal. We were so used to being obedient, right? Like air quotes, being obedient requires you to be like, whatever version, our, whatever version parents wants us to be. Like, for me, it was like staying quiet, playing it safe, you know, doing whatever they wanted. And that for me, led me to a place of people pleasing. And, you know, I grew up with this like hyper, awareness of like what people wanted, because it was my survival tactics. And I had no clue about any of this. Like, I, I just w naturally like, became that version. Right. and it's so ingrained in my identity and it's like, now, you know, it's the good news is like, Hey, I'm, I'm happy. It gave me the ability to learn how to be compassionate. And empathetic to people, but almost sometimes to a point where I don't know how to separate, how to like, be there for other people, but also like put set boundaries for my own emotions. Right. like I take other people's problems and their emotions on my back as if it's mine. And that led me to, to some very dark places, because I realize that that trauma or that those problems are not mine, but I'm trying to be this hero. Right. this people pleaser to help them. And I realize that, you know, I need to stay in my own lane. and that I need to also create the boundaries for myself to say no. And that for me, these last few years have been so hard to do. But when we talk about mental health, like, and what I teach people, it's like we have to set boundaries, not just for ourselves, but with other people, because the more you people please, and the more you, Become that version of yourself. You start to lose yourself in a way that you don't even realize, and you look in the mirror and you just aren't happy with that version of yourself. And that type of work is like, I call it like, you know, years of unpacking and unlearning the parts of you that aren't really yours, but you've kind of carried on because in reality, like you're just trying to protect yourself. You're trying to protect yourself from getting hurt or rejected. And that has been like for me, like an eye-opening experience. And now that I'm able to come out of my own healing journey and observe that I can now recognize the science to help other people and the hardest shift for me. And I'll be very honest is how do I carry that into motherhood? Because so much of how I mother is, is a, is this identity blend of how my parents raised me and how I'm like learning to be, you know, adapted to this culture. But then I realize that, you know, With my kids. If I want them to be themselves, I still need, there's like a balance of like, I need to give them the boundaries, but I also need to give them the space for them to be who they are. And it's a very hard thing to do.

Kristy: 19:08

Mm-hmm You mentioned like people pleasing and then almost to a, to a point where you may end up losing a bit of your own identity because you you're just adapting to what everybody else wants without really considering what is it that you want. And I can totally just see this person over time. When you continue on that journey, you end up losing yourself along the way, and you don't even realize that you have lost yourself because you have picked up all these other things from around. You trying please trying to, you know, say yes to everything for example, or, or be a certain person with different people. eventually you don't even know who you are anymore, because you're so used to like being in all these other roles that aren't actually yours.

Angie: 19:59

You morph into this person. You. Kind of take on this identity of what other people think you are. And when you do that, you're like, well, I'm, making sure I'm this person. Other people expect me to be, to make them happy. And then you realize, first of all, they don't give a shit. And second of all, now you're super unhappy and just all around. You're just like, what the, what the hell am I doing this for? Right. And like, that's when you go, okay, who the hell am I? And am I even doing this?

Kristy: 20:26

You're just so lost. You're just this like lost soul, you know, on this earth. And you're like, who am I.

Tam Tran: 20:32

Who am I. and that's why I love my Oracle card decks. just kidding, but no reality. I like, I love it. I love all the woo stuff, cuz that has allowed me to step into that space of knowing who I really am and people call it soul searching. Right. that's like the mainstream stream, like term of, of

Ep 50 - Tam Tran: 20:49

soul

Tam Tran: 20:49

searching, but yes, absolutely. All those things. I call myself the professional chameleon. Like I was so good at like blending in right with like other people because I, I was at a place where I was groomed to like want to be loved and accepted. so I'm the youngest of three, three, and my brother and my sister are eight and 10 years older. So obviously, the accident that I was supposed to be, boy, and then, you know, the accident, eight years later I came out, my parents were like, oh, anyways, so they, they have. Like they truly have helped me become this professional chameleon and unknowingly like unknowingly. Right. that they, that, that was what happened. And I think that's where I was having this identity crisis because as I grew up and I learned to develop confidence in my own voice and realizing what my soul wanted, it was like very much this cognitive dissonance of like where my parents wanted me to be and where I wanna be. And they're not in the same islands of a world, you know? And that for me has been so hard because I so much want to be the obedient good daughter to them, but I don't wanna do it at the expense of my own health. And that has been a turning point for me. but a lot of people don't have that luxury and they're still learning like how do I separate what my parents want and that identity. And somehow that has become really part of my core identity. And then now, you know, separating that to, to kind of pivot and turn into this new person. And shedding all of that bullshit. Right? That's not yours. And, you know, like, like a snake, like you're kind of like really just ripping out all these pieces and you're grieving and hurting from all the, like going against this grain. Right. Of what people want you to be. That, that for me is like not, I feel like not like people don't speak up or talk about it a lot. and I just wanna touch on it a little bit just to give people context. If, if they ever go through it, you know, as you morph change, you're often gonna have to go through a grieving process and that grieving process is very painful. your body sometimes will fight it because it doesn't feel safe to shed and be this new person. So you're kind of in this, like, just imagine like you're being pulled in two different places where, you know, you need to go to a certain direction or, you know, you need to go in this way, but you can't because. You're so used to being a people, pleaser, you know, all this stuff. Right. And so you're being pulled back. And so the grieving part is like learning to just let go of that part and being okay with it and just forgiving yourself of all the things you've done to keep yourself safe and forgiving yourself. Yeah. And the reason why I speak up about this now is because I was going through this, all this stuff, and I didn't have the words or the ability to like understand it all. And I was like, grieving this part of me. That's like, oh, you know, Tammy, you did such a great job. You got to this place, you know, you're successful. I mom, and all these things, but what has got me here in this space has kept me trapped from being where I wanna be to speak up and heal more people. And I have to learn how to let this old identity go. so that I can be truly in an embodied place to help. You know the world, but I can't do that if I'm people pleasing, like I have to be able to break that. And the grieving part, the hardest part about it is you kind of do it by yourself and it sucks.

Angie: 24:19

And

Kristy: 24:20

lonely and, and it's, you know, anytime you fight against the grain in anything, it's very exhausting cuz you're just climbing uphill and you're doing it by yourself.

Tam Tran: 24:31

Yeah.

Kristy: 24:32

There may be moments when you're just like, you know, and maybe you question yourself, but sometimes even though you're going uphill and you're carrying a lot of this baggage, it it's okay to just take a break, but then keep going afterwards. And once you're there, once you get past that pain and the grieving, then it can feel a lot better, right?

Tam Tran: 24:53

yeah, absolutely. You get to a point where you start to accept. Both sides, both the fact that you're grieving, but excited that you are heading in the right direction for once. And the hardest part sometimes is like learning to, you know, become your own cheerleader. And you know, like, if I could do a quick plug, I, have this book called, sorry, I had to grab it because I was like, what is it? The high five habit. And it's by Mel Robbins. And she basically teaches you how to be your own cheerleader. And the reason why a high five is so, you know, effective in doing this self love, you know, building your own confidence sort of thing is because when you give someone else a high five, you always smile. Right. It's like hard for you not to smile. And it's cuz

Kristy: 25:43

I'm imagining it now.

Angie: 25:45

no, I like, have I ever asked? But yeah.

Tam Tran: 25:48

hard

Kristy: 25:48

Not,

Tam Tran: 25:50

Yeah, exactly. So like, you know, affirmations are great, but when you do it in the mirror, it's so much more powerful cause you see yourself, but like let's be real. It's pretty uncomfortable to stare at yourself unless you're putting on makeup or something.

Kristy: 26:02

Right.

Tam Tran: 26:04

yes, yeah. I have a hard time, like staring at myself, like, what am I, you know, anyways, so you start kind of, or analyzing, but if you raise your hand and and as you say, the affirmation out loud, it's hard for you not to smile and that positive, like, look as you stare at yourself and giving yourself a high five and saying the affirmation and doing that mirror work is so effective in building confidence and learning how to speak up and providing yourself that cheerleading moment that you probably need in in a day. And that was the first thing I did with my son this year, which was, you know, how do I help build my own confidence, but take him with me in this journey. And we do it together. And it's great to see that, you know, he kind of learns OB that kids obviously learn from what you do, not what you say. Right. They, they just follow you. And we, we had this picture where we both like high five and he's truly smiling from a place of like genuine, you know, I'm truly authentically happy. And so am I, but it was so hard in the very beginning to be like, well, high five myself in the morning. Yeah. but the more I did it, the more I started to recognize, like, and say to myself, you know, Tam you're tired today, but I'm so proud of you for getting up 5:00 AM to go work out. You know what I mean? And like you being, you becoming that cheerleader and voice for yourself so quick black from Mel Robbins. And I hope you check it out. we'll

Kristy: 27:24

link the book in the description. What I really loved, is that you, you gave yourself the space to recognize and acknowledge when you're not feeling so great during that high five. And then, and then comes the affirmations of like, Hey, you are doing so great because of X, Y, Z. And I think it's the balance it's not just like all. All this positivity, cuz I think toxic positivity is, is a thing I think there can be just too much of just hyperfocusing on all the good, happy, joyful, like rainbows and butterflies and unicorns,. What I really appreciate is like accepting, acknowledging and being okay with, Hey, I'm I'm feeling a bit tired today, but I'm excited to be chatting with Tam about like being in the middle generation how to balance that role. And you know, because as humans we're gonna go through all different sorts of emotions and feelings throughout even a day, right? Let tomorrow or next week or the week after that, like it changes all the time. But. We need the space and, the ability to acknowledge that we can feel all these spectrums of things and it's okay.

Tam Tran: 28:45

yeah, I love what you said about space because a lot of people. Myself included in this journey. we're so used to plug plugging in that, that space and the void, right. With things to do and, you know, born and raised in Silicon valley. Like you kind of keep going, going, you don't know how to create this space to give yourself time, to really be with the emotion. and that's a thing about healing, you know, like, sometimes an emotion comes up. There's a few stages. A lot of people, when they feel it emotion, they start to retract, right. Or they start to like going into this fixing mode, like, oh, I need to fix my emotions. I need to fix how, why I'm feeling this way. you know, or at least start to push it down and say, you know what, I'm too busy right now. I don't have time to deal with this anger or whatever's going on right now. So I'm just gonna push it away for a second. Right. And you know, and another is, is like keeping myself busy with and distracted and working and. Alcohol or whatever it is, right. Whatever your vice is to like, not deal with it. And it's because the space, when people have this space and time, it's scary. It's scary for them to like, be alone with their emotions because they have no idea what to do with it. And the reason why I bring this up is because I was very much like everyone has their vice right. Everyone has a way to like deal with their emotions. Mine was working. Like I just constantly worked and overworking. And then after work, you get stressed out. So you're gonna go drink some alcohol or like, you're gonna go. And for me, it was like emotional eating, which is why I love food adventures. Right. just like constantly feeding and putting all this stuff in my body because I didn't wanna feel, I was trying to numb the pain for a long time. And a lot of people do because it's scary to be, to deal with it and be with it. And the truth is. You have 60,000 thoughts a day 80% are negative. 80% of your 60,000 thoughts are negative. And then on top of that, you're not even, oh no, let's just, yeah, let's

Angie: 30:49

just 48,000. 48,000 negative

Kristy: 30:52

what the fuck?

Tam Tran: 30:55

That's a

Angie: 30:55

lot of negative thoughts.

Tam Tran: 30:56

a lot of negative thoughts. a lot of them are repetitive, from the past, you know, just whatever that has happened to you, right? Those are programs that are in your, in your head space and 95% of the time. You're not even consciously aware that you have those thoughts. Isn't that freaking crazy? Like, let's just pause for a second. Let's about this. Yes. So if you have all these thoughts that are running your brain and running, how, you know, how you behave and act and how you feel, if you guys have seen the movie, what's that word? What's that movie that on Disney, the emotions inside

Kristy: 31:29

Pixar Yeah. Yeah.

Angie: 31:30

Yeah.

Tam Tran: 31:31

Oh, my God. So good. We were watching with my son yesterday and I was like, this is exactly what's going on in my brain. love that movie. a joy, the sad. Right. and, and just like every, so in the movie, there's like a ball that comes out, right? The ball that comes out, that, you know, whatever emotions that you have and it's stored in your body. So they give your brain like that, where you have all of these little balls of emotions that are stored in your body. And what happens is that it creates a framework for you of how you should see the world. And if you're not aware of it, if you don't bring awareness to what's going on, and if you don't realize that 95% of your thoughts are like unconsciously, you're just not even aware of it. And much of it, it being negative, right? Like it's no fricking wonder that we're always reacting. And if we don't give ourselves this space to let it out and we keep suppressing it, you know, is it true that sometimes you feel like the same things are happening over and over and over. And for me that was it. It was like, why do I keep feeling shitty? Well, let's not deal with it and I'm gonna go like eat. So I don't feel it, or, you know, work or, you know, drink. So I don't feel it. And then it keeps coming back up and I'm like, dude, I thought I just dealt with this by eating or drinking or hang out friends being distracted, you know?

Kristy: 32:43

Numbing distracting, trying to fix it. See like

Angie: 32:47

And we don't realize that it's like, every time we push it away, it like comes back harder. Cuz there's like this, like it's like an emotional debt and the interest builds. So the more you push it away, the harder it comes back to hit you. And we don't realize that until it actually happens. And we're like, oh fuck. I fucked up.

Kristy: 33:05

See, that was Angie's finance background, just like seeping into

Angie: 33:10

what all the interest,

Kristy: 33:11

accruing emotional interest. It.

Tam Tran: 33:15

Oh my God. I love it. I love that. It's a compound interest of dealing with your emotions. That's totally, truly what happens. the reason why I wanna bring it up is because part of, part of the stigma is, and in my culture is like, Hey, you're being too emotional. Like stop it. Right. Or you're too sensitive. Stop it. Right. And it's the emotional, like our emotions are actually like a compass it's supposed to guide you to where you need to be. But if you suppress right. If you're so used to suppressing and pushing it away, how can you know which direction to go?

Kristy: 33:53

No wonder we're all feeling lost.

Angie: 33:55

love that. that analogy. I love analogy like every episode I try to work some analogy into it and, that compass one, I love it. know we're pivoting a little bit, but you went to therapy, you told your dad about it. He really shut you down about it. And this was when you were in your twenties. And then when you had your first son, Lucas, you decided to go back to therapy again. Does your dad know about it now or does, does your mom and dad know about it now?

Tam Tran: 34:26

No, they don't. Yeah. they don't, and it, and I didn't share that with them, for the fear of both like the shame that they would place on it, but also the shame possibly of how I would feel. And this is all speculation, right. Nothing's confirmed. Like, but in my mind, I couldn't open myself to share that with them again. so I went to therapy and this is a great pivot because this is where we'll bring in the woo woo stuff. for all those that are listening and are interested, I did go to therapy for a period of time. When you know, I was going through postpartum. I was very against like taking anything, you know, cuz very much, you know, the world is like, here's a magic pill, you know, take it and, and you know, and there's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely. Everyone needs something. Right. But for me, I chose not to because I was, I wanted to deal with it myself. And when I was going through therapy, something about therapy itself, it was great awareness. And I call it the top down healing where it's all about like talk therapy and they help you take these, you know, frameworks to help you understand what's going on. But the understanding of what was going on didn't make me feel better. that was the reason why I actually stopped therapy. Cuz I said it must be something else out there. And I, I refused to take something cuz I knew that there was something more and something that my soul was like a, a path that it was trying to take me. And what I realized that, where it was taking me was down the spiritual path. I was going through a huge spiritual awakening. And it was through me going through like, Hey, I'm, I'm tired of going to therapy. Is there anything else? I found alternative healing through Reiki and spiritual, my spiritual path. and I'm so glad I did it because it is the catalyst that has completely changed. Not just my trajectory of where I wanna be in my life, but also how I serve and help other people. And it's been this beautiful, like awakening, and I'm so glad that it led me down this path. And I wanted to share that for those who are listening, because sometimes you don't realize, kind of like the movie soul, like your soul picked, all the stuff that has happened to you. and I'm sorry, I'm like going through a bunch of Disney movies, cause we're going through a bunch with my son

Angie: 36:37

and

Tam Tran: 36:38

you know, soul came up cuz it's like your soul for better or worse. you have to think your soul for this, it picks all of this bullshit that you're supposed to deal with. And it was always meant to lead you down a certain path. And for me, it was to learn how to speak up and be myself so that I can then be a voice for other people in the community who may not necessarily have, not just the words, but being able to identify like what they're going through and move past that and giving themselves a chance to truly come home to who they really are. And that for me has been just a beautiful awakening and journey. So that's kind of where my path has been led. My parents do not know anything I do. So the shit, I don't tell my mom, I don't tell my mom anything

Kristy: 37:20

about

Tam Tran: 37:21

any of this stuff. cause they probably were like, what? but it's kind of like, you know, I guess Buddhism, Zen, whatever you wanna call it. Right? What, there's always this belief of a higher being out there that supports you and, and that's kind of where I'm at, right?

Kristy: 37:34

And I almost think of it as like you not telling your parents is a form of boundaries. You know, that you are your parents because you know, it could hurt them or, you know, so, so in a way you not sharing is, is a way that you are loving your parents by them and drawing the boundaries for both them and yourself too. It's, it's a protective thing for you as well, right? To, to have boundaries and space and, your mental health journey and your wellness journey, you need to have that space without your parents in it. Angie and I are both, we both go to therapy. So, and we've talked about therapy, on our show many times, and we're a big proponents of doing therapy, but we always emphasize like, There are so many different methods of going through this journey and you have to figure out what can work for you. Right. And you know, it's not like one person's method is gonna work for you. These are just an options. Like, Hey, here, listen, these are all the different options available. First of all, let's like destigmatize all the different options. Okay. and this like giant menu. Try some, you might find one immediately. You might not you might gotta go through and try a few other flavors. And then until you finally come to, to be like, Hey, this actually resonates with me a lot more. And it sounds like for you, Tam is that therapy almost gave you the why, but it didn't really give you the how, right. great starting point some foundational work. And even the fact that you were ready to even go back to therapy is like a big step forward. And that started the journey or restarted the journey again. And you're like, okay, well now I, I get why, but like what, what do I do with this information now? do I, how do I move on? Like, how do I, you know, continue this self growth journey, and therapy wasn't, wasn't giving you the how sounds like. Whereas, Reiki was,

Tam Tran: 39:40

you know it

Kristy: 39:41

being in touch with your spiritual side that did help you find out how to perceive forward in your journey. So I, I like woo woo stuff. as someone who's like trained in science and goes to therapy, I love woo woo things. And I was just talking to my other friend, like last, literally last night we were talking about religion and spirituality and, and I grew up, In a Buddhist fam? Well, my mom is Buddhist and my dad is just nothing. So I was more in tuned in like, you know, going to do Buddhist practices, even though I have no idea doing. Right. But I just do them because my family's doing them. I would, I will go to temple on new year's and like, you know, I will learn certain mantras and blah, blah, blah. And then, and even though I can't explain it, and even though I didn't understand the stories, I like, I feel at peace, like I feel an affinity to the religion. Right. Or I feel an affinity to, to Buddha. And for me it was like Guam. and, and I can't, I can't explain that. And, you know, sometimes we do things for like, we'll light incense for all the different deities and. My Western side of me is like, this is ridiculous. Like, this doesn't make any sense. Right. But then but then my spiritual side is like, you know what, like, why doesn't it make sense? Like, the universe is pretty confusing. You know, who, who, am I to say? This doesn't make sense. And if I feel good about it and I'm not harming anybody, then like I'm gonna keep doing it.

Tam Tran: 41:20

yeah,

Kristy: 41:21

tell us more about, you know, your journey with Reiki and how that is incorporated into your practice.

Tam Tran: 41:27

Yeah, absolutely. so as you shared all that, I was like, I need to light my instant really quick, cuz I need I need a little bit more of that. so I honestly stumbled upon it literally by, by accident it just said alternative healing. And I remember going into the room with this practitioner, and she kind of put her hands on top of me and she didn't, she would do light touches. And as she did, I felt this warm transfer of energy from her to me. And she's basically just channeling literally the universe's energy through her hands to me. And as she did all the things that I felt started to. It's like the, you know, like, there's like when you go to the beach, there's like lots of waves. It started to like slow down and very like, calm, just like calms my entire body. And I was like, I don't know what the hell she just did, but whatever she did, I want more of that. You know? And when you talked about like alternative forms of, of healing and therapy, right? Absolutely. I think of like the buffet, right? You go to buffet, everyone can choose what they want. but it's also the run. Like, is there something else in this buffet that I'm not seeing? And I think for me, Reiki and all the spiritual, like practices are so much, there's actually a lot of different types of alternative healing that I wasn't aware of and whatever she did, I was like, this is so amazing. Like I wanna keep feeling like this every day. So I kept going to her and we not only talked through what was going on, but she har helped me through kind of this hands on like healing approach to process. Because the emotions were so trapped in my body, I had no words to, to like put to the name or to the feeling. and I was so much in my head about the emotion. I couldn't drop into my body to feel it. So Reiki just allowed me to like, shut my mind off and go straight into the feeling zone and like calm all the feelings. And now that I do Reiki for other people and I teach it, I'm happy to do it for you ladies, by the way. so

Ep 50 - Tam Tran: 43:33

you

Tam Tran: 43:34

both can feel what it, the, the amazing feeling, it's and I can do it virtually, or you can do it in person, right. It doesn't really matter. but truly you come from this deep place of like calm and peace. And from this place of peace and calm, you can then start to understand and observe what's going on and hear your voice. So that's raking a nutshell. It's really channeling and U using the universe's life, energy that's truly around you. a lot of people just don't know that they it's there. And Reiki was the beginning of my healing journey. And now that I'm teaching it and sharing with other people, what I've learned about healing, like very much like therapy is this top down approach, which is absolutely needed to understand having the, the knowledge right. To, to understand how you're feeling. But Reiki is like this energetics piece that's really around you using that energy to heal yourself. And then now, I'm incorporating breathwork and, breathwork is truly a bottoms up approach where you just bypass the, you know, intellectual mind of thinking, thinking, thinking, like, I'm gonna think my way through an emotion, right? or think my way through this problem or whatever. but really come using your body to help you understand the wisdom that's truly there. Cuz you have all the answers. You just don't know. You have the answers because you aren't there yet. You don't feel it in your body. So that is for me, like the spiritualness of like of Reiki and how beautiful this practice is. But more deeply what I've learned is that the wisdom I was like, almost like, I almost forgot about it was deeply stored in my body. And it came because it came from a place of trauma. When I experienced a lot of trauma as a child, I abandoned my body. And I didn't know that until I started to practice Reiki, mindfulness breathwork and realized that all of this, all of this trauma that I've had, I forgot about that inner child of myself. And I just left her there. And now that I'm back and kind of doing the work inner work to bring her out and let her know that she is completely safe to be who she is to feel safe. And know that I'm with her walking with her every step of the way. She's not gonna be by herself anymore. I'm now integrating the parts of me that I have lost before. Right. I just pushed it away. Now that I've gone through going through this healing journey with Reiki, with all these different tools and modalities, I can start to integrate those faces and feel whole again. And that's the person you're talking to today.

Angie: 46:06

Well, I think

Kristy: 46:07

I'm getting emotional.

Tam Tran: 46:09

much peace

Angie: 46:10

your voice. You know, like when you meet somebody, you kind of get that vibe, get that a from them. And I think the way someone talks is a really big reflection of their inner workings as well. So I think the way you spoke it was very eloquent, very peaceful, and it made me feel calm, listening to.

Kristy: 46:31

I, I didn't feel calm. not, not not to say it wasn't calming, but I, I felt a lot of emotions come up for me because of all these, key words that you use, like trauma in your childhood, you know, finally bringing out that inner child and almost like giving her this massive hug and telling her that it's okay, you are now safe. you weren't taken care of perhaps during that traumatic time, but now I'm here to take care of you and I'm gonna walk with you. And there were parts, you know, that were lost, but now, now we're gonna. Find those and behold again together. And that made me want to cry. I'm I am curious though, Tam, little Tammy, sorry, little Tam little your inner child, you know, what, what was, what was going on there and what were some of those traumatic memories?

Tam Tran: 47:30

Oh, man, we're going deep today.

Kristy: 47:32

Welcome to shit. We don't tell mom.

Tam Tran: 47:35

totally right. This uncomfortableness. let me just reset a little bit. of the things I never told my parents truly was being bullied. when I was young, I was probably in sixth grade and it was, and you know, being, being, you know, at that age, like you don't really have the, the tools to really speak up to. And I think also the way, like in the Vietnamese culture, we just learned not to speak up. We normally is not speaking up. So I think that behavior just carried in. So I never told my parents that I was bullied at a young age. It was probably around sixth grade. And at that time, like AOL instant messenger, for those that can remember what that is or aim. Right. You know, I remember getting like chats, like random chats, random people would ping me and they would call me names, you know, and bully me, you know, and saying like, you know, you're an African black creature, because I'm actually a dark Vietnamese person. So people are like, and, and that was like the term they called it ABC African black creature. So they would call me that all throughout middle school. Yeah. And, I very much wore that, that on my, like, that kind of put my shield up. and I never really told actually, you know, now that I think back to it, I don't know if I ever told my friends and it was one of my friend's brother that was doing that. And he told all his friends, and it made me feel very insecure, you know, all throughout. Middle school and high school. I very much felt like unaccepted and unloved for who I was or who I am. And it stuck with me, you know, that layered with how my parents are very much a tiger, you know, tiger parents are traditional tiger parents. there's just a lot of unpacked, like trauma that I went through with how they raised me. and I'm thinking of a story to tell without going too deep or not extending this podcast too much, but I'm happy to unpack more of it's helpful. It was in high school. I remember like, you know, high school, high school love, right. I was in this relat. And, you know, my parents were very much like you can't have a boyfriend, you can, you know, all this stuff because you're gonna get pregnant and like drop outta high school. Right. Like all the worst things that they think of, they kind of projected. and I think because I was in this relationship, you know, I thought I was obviously in love with this person. Right. And, my parents, they would put like stuff on my computer, like screen my chats and like monitor everything. yeah. So I couldn't even like talk anyway. So they, they used all that stuff against me. my parents would show up, you know, like when you watch, turning red.

Kristy: 50:06

Yes.

Tam Tran: 50:07

Okay. The moment when the mom was at the school, that was my dad. That was my dad. He literally, and, and it was like, kind of like peeking to make sure I wasn't, you know, Like doing things, you know, and I'm like, dude, I'm like not dumb. Right. but my parents would just like, be so controlling about it. Like I could never be standing next to a guy cuz they would think that that that was my boyfriend or whatever. I couldn't have study groups. I never slept over at people's houses. I didn't go to most of the dances in high school. because of, you know, my parents are just like super controlling and crazy about it. And literally that control like them being so controlling and not knowing how to trust me it, I just didn't learn how to trust myself when I made decisions. So that was like an example of the, like the, the trauma that I went through with my parents bullied like that. Just, I don't know how to say this, but like I became so insecure. I was insecure from how people bullied me and I was insecure because my parents didn't trust me. And then on top of that, they would always, you know, say like, Hey, you know, you're not doing enough. Or, you know, like you're always fat, right. All this stuff. Right? So like that type of thing really just impacted my ability to be confident in myself. And no matter what I did, I never felt like I was good enough. And it literally drove me to a place of burnout where I was overexerting myself. Again, going back to the people, pleasing tendencies. That's what I did. I overworked to stay distracted, to not deal with all of this baggage that I had way underneath. Right. from how my parents raised me and treated me and I never felt accepted. And it was hard to share this with my friends that they know about it, obviously, but it was hard because they didn't understand how my parents could treat me the way they did. but I always felt like the black sheep. With my friends, because my friends could go out and do all these things, but I was at home, you know, and with my books and all that stuff. Right. and I spent many, many years like blog it on my Xanga post, right. Like about how I felt like trapped and not being able to be myself and so suppressed, suppressed to be who I was. the version you see now, obviously in that you are hearing now has done the work to really overcome that. But I still feel like I'm unpacking 30 plus years of that, you know?

Kristy: 52:25

Yeah, thank you so much for, for being vulnerable and sharing that story with us. And I think the unpacking and the learning and the growing that's, that's a forever thing because we're constantly growing. We're constantly discovering things about ourselves, we're learning new things. So then, our identities will change based off of the things that we learn. that work con continues. But I, I also want to just like recognize and thank you again, sharing that story, but recognize the work that you've already done to be who you are today.

Tam Tran: 53:00

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for seeing me, for also creating a space for women like me, moms like me to speak up because. Speaking up is again, like not, not a normal thing in the culture. and feeling safe to speak up is just a whole nother thing. But it's the space that you both have created for me to allow me to be myself. So that for me has been just an incredible experience. So thank you, both

Kristy: 53:26

Thank you. all this like, oh,

Tam Tran: 53:29

all the emotions

Kristy: 53:30

know. think in, in so many ways, like, despite all the, the trauma. and being isolated and being alone, not being able to share with your friends or your family, it was also a way that you were, I think, protecting yourself because you're, there is shame and judgment.

Tam Tran: 53:50

When you share

Kristy: 53:50

with friends or family, they're gonna, they may judge differently, and I think a lot of people who have had childhood bullying, I have also experienced childhood bullying in different contexts, but like, I don't want to talk about it with my friends, especially at that time, because it is like, I don't wanna be the weird one out. Like I already feel like when I'm already in the group. Right. Because of my family upbringing or whatever it is. so why would I openly state that? Oh, I am the odd one out. Like people are, you know, targeting me and calling me these names. Like, why would I want to give them more of a reason to F. Make me feel like I shouldn't belong in this circle, you know?

Tam Tran: 54:32

yeah. Oh, yes. I think what you just said very subtly. I just wanna go back to that. It was, I think it's the word, shame. People feel ashamed, you know, and it's, here's the thing that I've learned too. It's like, If you knew you couldn't fail, right. What would you do in your life? It was a question that was really hard for me because there is so much shame when you fail being Vietnamese, American, being Asian. Like our parents is like, if you don't win, right. If you don't do, if you don't get that, A like, you're not great. that word shame is such a thing that I wanna normalize. Like how can we normalize the shame and the guilt that we feel every day, you know, when we don't do things the right way. Right. and I think what it be where it begins really is to say it out loud. Like, let's just say it out loud. Like I feel ashamed right. Of that part of my life. I felt, I felt so much shame growing up, being dark skinned Vietnamese, possibly not as skinny as my parents want me to be. There was so much shame. And I carried that with me into motherhood operated from that place of shame because it was what I was told and what I truly believed for most of my life. think what set me free from the shame was not just openly talking about it and saying I have, or I feel shame. sorry, I shouldn't say I am. You know, it's just like, I feel the shame. but it was the work around rebuilding and reprioritizing myself that I could truly forgive myself for the shame. And it was everything I did up to this point was just to protect myself, like you said, but it was my survival tactics. Right. I Sur this is how I survived in this culture. and. Now, like looking back and going back to like, thinking about my parents, I think what they've done up until this point really, and maybe for the rest of their life, that they may not realize is that this is their survival tactics. They are surviving, and this is so deeply embodied and ingrained in their, their cells that they just don't know any other way. And I've learned to forgive them for that, that what they did to control everything and like making sure, you know, I was safe right. From their point of view. all the things that they did as hurtful as it is. I know that they did it out of place of love, even though they're trying to control everything. Right. But the control part of it now, like looking back is like they controlled all these things because they wanted to feel safe. And now having this like 360 degree view of everything. I can say, like, I just, you know, we just gotta let that go. Right? The shame, the guilt and the stories, because the more we become like attached to that as part of our identity, it is so hard to change. We just can't. And so I just wanna touch on tho those pieces a little bit, because it is so normal to feel the shame. It is so normal to feel guilty for prioritizing your own mental health. Right. But you have to, you absolutely have to, cuz there's no other way for you to like, no one, no one's gonna do it for you. No, one's gonna do it for you. No, one's gonna tell you that. Like we have to take the responsibility now as adults to just do the work.

Angie: 57:53

the hard part like we're still trying to get the hang of it. You know, Tam's still trying to get the hang of it, myself and Christie. We're all still trying to get the hang of it, but you can just, only thing you can do is keep practicing.

Tam Tran: 58:07

Yep, absolutely keep trying every day and two steps forward. One step back is completely normal. cuz healing is really non-linear in school and what we're taught in society is like one plus one equals two very linear, right. But growth and healing is absolutely non-linear. So for those who love math, right? Non-linear just like really think about that. Like it's very much the Ziggy Zig thing that like they, some of the stuff may not ever connect and it doesn't even matter. The point is we just gotta forgive ourselves that this is just all this shit's happening and be okay with the chaos that the chaos and how we feel. It's not who we are.

Kristy: 58:45

Dang, the chaos is not who we are and, forgiving your family, recognizing that they were just, again, doing the best that they can with the resources and tools that they have. Yes, it has caused harm and pain for us as their offsprings, but who we are now trying to take care of our inner child. That's separate from our parents. And those two different things and, and the, but the work needs to be involved in all of those, know, forgiving that is work in taking care of your inner child that is work in the growth and identity discovering and, you know, con the healing, of that is work.

Tam Tran: 59:28

Mm-hmm.

Kristy: 59:38

How are you feeling about, reading some Oracle cards?

Tam Tran: 59:43

Yeah, I'm stoked. have you guys both ever gotten like an Oracle card slash card reading before?

Kristy: 59:49

no. So what we're doing now is Angie and I are gonna do some work, I guess, learning a little bit more about our own identities live in this episode. So, is it, is when you do readings, is it usually for another person or. For yourself as well like this.

Tam Tran: 1:00:09

both. Yeah. So I start doing it for myself. so, you know, like meanwhile, like mindfulness and meditation,

Kristy: 1:00:14

Mm

Tam Tran: 1:00:15

like okay. Is dropping in into yourself. So once you do a little bit of that, I do a lot of readings for myself when I feel lost or stuck, or I'm just like all in the head and I'm like, oh, I, I need, like, I need something. So I'll do a little bit of like a short meditation and then I'll do Reiki and then I'll go straight into, a card reading for myself. And then I just kind of use that to like, journal. So it's almost like a good way to reflect. It's like, alright, what's the message for today. Like I asked very open-ended questions. Like, what is the message of the universe? What does it want me to know today? And I'll write it down and I'll just, journal on it for a few moments. And then I've been doing it for gosh, a few years now. And you'll notice if you look back, there's like sometimes consistent, things like you kind of pull the same card sometimes. a great reflection tool. So that's kind of what I do. and then I do for other people, obviously.

Kristy: 1:01:05

I'm super into it right now.

Tam Tran: 1:01:06

So I didn't realize I was doing this probably at a very young age, like sixth grade. I remember gonna Marshall's my parents. You know, like, Hey, just go run around and do do your thing. Right. And I picked up a card deck and it was called I-Ching and I-Ching was like the very first Oracle card deck that I ever picked up. It was like, okay, cool, whatever. Right. I'm gonna bring it back home. And I remember doing card readings for myself and for my friends for a while. And I pretty much like packed that in a box for a while until I had my spiritual awakening again. And I was like, oh my God, I've been doing this my whole life. and I forgot about it. So it's one of those tools that, any, so let's just, let's just destigmatize a little bit, right? This is not about fortune telling this is not about like, you know, the future state very much. It can be if that's what comes out. Right. But this is just really a tool, a resource that you can use, to really just understand yourself a little bit better. That's how I like to frame like a reading. Nor car reading or Terra car reading. obviously there's a lot of amazing readers out there for me, the way I like to do it is I pretty much, once I have your permission, right, Angie Christie, you know, I'll pull a card for you and I'll read it to you and ask you, how does this resonate? Right? And sometimes for me, it's just about like tuning into what you need in this moment. And that's how I like to use these cards so anyone can learn it and do it. and if you're interested, you know, send me a DM at stigma, free movement, just send me a DM. If you're interested, happy to do free readings. I love this stuff and I love teaching it and sharing with people. It's one of the tools. Kind of on a weekly basis. I love it so much that my son and I do it. and it, I teach him and he's like, mom, let me do a reading for you. pick a card. Yeah. He'll pick a card for me. He'll pick a card for dad and pick a card for himself, not knowing. And I think he's just like having fun and that's the whole point, right? Like, so all seriousness, it's a, it's a fun tool and resource. let's see, let's see where it takes us. Yeah.

Kristy: 1:03:00

very excited. And we are all of your info down in the description. So for our listeners, if you wanted to get a reading from TA, check out our show notes.

Tam Tran: 1:03:09

awesome. So this card deck is called work, your light by Rebecca Campbell. this is probably my second or third deck that I picked up. I gotta show you guys my collections kind of crazy. cause everyone has different decks at different points in time. There's a lot of amazing authors, but something about her deck that just really resonates is the artwork so beautiful. We gotta drop in the show notes for those who are like, Hey, I wanna check this out. so who would like to go first?

Angie: 1:03:34

I'll go

Kristy: 1:03:34

can go first. Ooh, Ooh. I

Angie: 1:03:38

that. Angie, can go first. all right. go

Tam Tran: 1:03:45

Okay, Angie. Okay.

Angie: 1:03:47

There was a period of my life when I was like really lost and I was like grieving. I was like super into astrology, same thing, like using it, not for, fortune telling, but for understanding who I am understanding those around me. So I'm like totally into it.

Tam Tran: 1:04:02

Yeah. So this would be pretty similar, but just really using like the card as a medium to help you understand yourself better. So with that, let's speak in. So just gimme a second. I just wanna tune into the energy and just, just drop into that space. By the way, this is a shit for sure. I do not tell my parents. I do. and at work I'm starting to come out and it's amazing thing, but, I hope that this becomes a normalized tool that everyone can use, Okay. Angie, so, Ooh. Okay. So the card is called Irama and it, the phrase says, where are you being called to journey to? So I'll send you guys a photo after it's this beautiful, like person who's like in this body of water. And like, you see this kind of like castle feels. Just it's so beautiful. So I'd love to read it first and then we'll talk a little bit about it and unpack. you could absolutely ask questions, like in terms of, you know, before you pull a card, you could just pull, you know, ask a question, but for me today, I wanted to be a little bit more organic and just see what comes up for the both of us. So just be in more of a state of flow. All right. So the Celtic word in Ramma means a journey of the soul, a voyage on which we don't know where we are going, but our souls, our soul knows the way. If you pull this card, you are either either being called on a soul journey or already on one. It could be to a physical ancient place or metaphoric. When we journey to places that our soul remembers a shift takes place, both within us and to the planet as well. You are being called to journey to a place that is sacred to your soul. Perhaps it is to a journey to the world's sacred sites. Or you're being called to cross the country climb a mountain, lie on a desert floor or drink from an ancient. Well, there are places to see in old friends to meet. I see spontaneous pilgrimages in your future. If a physical void is impossible journey through the portal of your heart, follow the invisible soul trail and be willing to explore, maybe read a book or watch a movie about a sacred time or place, or perhaps you're being called to study an ancient lineage or body of work, whatever your circumstances, your soul is ready to journal deep. So this is the thing that like, they always provide like a little thing to read or do after. So if you just wanna repeat after me, Angie, and then you can let me know what your thoughts are, but it says may seeds of light

Angie: 1:06:35

May seeds of light

Tam Tran: 1:06:38

long ago

Angie: 1:06:39

ago,

Tam Tran: 1:06:41

planted begin.

Angie: 1:06:43

planted begin

Tam Tran: 1:06:45

To rise

Angie: 1:06:47

to rise.

Tam Tran: 1:06:49

and then close your eye for this one. Close your eyes for this one. It says I am ready

Angie: 1:06:54

I am ready

Tam Tran: 1:06:57

to remember ancient secrets

Angie: 1:07:00

remember ancient secrets

Tam Tran: 1:07:03

from lands that my soul knows

Angie: 1:07:06

from lands that my soul knows

Tam Tran: 1:07:09

from times past

Angie: 1:07:11

from times past

Tam Tran: 1:07:13

may I be held

Angie: 1:07:15

may I be held

Tam Tran: 1:07:17

by the ancient lineages

Angie: 1:07:20

the ancient lineages

Tam Tran: 1:07:23

that my soul has severed.

Angie: 1:07:25

my soul has severed.

Tam Tran: 1:07:27

And remember that I don't have to do it all alone.

Angie: 1:07:30

And remember that I don't have to do it all alone.

Tam Tran: 1:07:35

And that's it.

Angie: 1:07:37

I have goosebumps. Because I actually am on a journey. I've been, reading more into, Buddhism, like the Dharma of Buddhism and, reading more into just a lot of things like that. And, so my grandma is a Buddhist. She probably the only person in my family that is religious in that matter. And her father. So my great-grandfather was actually a Taoist priest. So there's a lot of, that type of blood in me. So

Tam Tran: 1:08:14

that's why I

Angie: 1:08:14

goosebumps. When you were reading all about this, like ancient lineages and ancient texts. And I was like, oh my God, that's exactly what I'm right now. And not like today, but like it's what I've been working on over. I would say probably like the past. Two years or so, but it's caught off to a really slow start and more recently, because the dust is kind of settling in the other big parts of my life. Like moving in with my boyfriend, getting a puppy, like these things are starting to slow down. Like it's being incorporated into my life. The dust is settling. So now I'm going back to that journey of like, what I was doing before. So this kind of is like, motivating me even more to kind of, you know, do it like to continue doing it.

Tam Tran: 1:09:03

thank you for sharing. totally

Kristy: 1:09:06

gave me goose

Tam Tran: 1:09:08

mm-hmm

Angie: 1:09:09

a goose of

Tam Tran: 1:09:11

and the thing is, the goosebumps, the sensations that are happening is that your soul feels recognized,

Angie: 1:09:16

mm-hmm

Tam Tran: 1:09:18

it's like, oh, you saw me. Yeah, you, you were speaking my language. and you're saying the things that it's like a moment of validation for yourself. yeah. So wherever your journey is, your soul knows the way. So just allow yourself to be with that.

Kristy: 1:09:35

That's so lovely. I had this whole imagery of like, you know, your soul as this, as this like ball of yellow light. And then it just like glowed brighter when you had a and it kind of like vibrated

Tam Tran: 1:09:50

mm-hmm

Kristy: 1:09:51

This is Kristy's interpretation of a soul

Angie: 1:09:57

okay. Kristy, it's your turn.

Kristy: 1:09:59

Okay.

Tam Tran: 1:09:59

okay. Okay. I'm laughing because I just got this card.

Kristy: 1:10:04

Like for

Tam Tran: 1:10:04

yourself, Yeah. It's called the it's so funny. It's called the initiation. it's called Rite of passage crossing the threshold. So you could see like these really dark mountains. but inside of it, you're being initiated into such a beautiful place, by the path to get there is a little rough. So, so let me read. All right, so, all right. So here we go. Some of the most sacred initiation, chambers and temples look scary from the outside. But our breathtakingly beautiful on the inside. This represents the journey that the soul Pilgrim is required to take, to reach summer sacred, but only the initiated can enter. And perhaps that's where you're at right now. You are being tested and initiated because you're headed summer sacred. Secret require that we cross the threshold from one world or state of being to the next we're being called to face. What scares us and have to be willing to lose it all in order to gain a new way of being of safety, of security, of depth, and of meaning initiations like rights of passage, mark the shift from one age to the next and can take place because of emotional term oil, great loss, grief, or devastation that is through the seemingly hardship that are. Heart will crack open. And our spirit is invested to step forward. We take the sacred voyage into more of who we are and who we came here to be. It can be painful and scary, but once we begin the journey, we can be more ourselves than ever before. If you are in the middle of an initiation right now, you will get through it. And one day soon you will bless the thing that broke you down and cracked you open because the world needs you open. You are going somewhere sacred and it will be worth it. And guess what? You're closer than you think.

Kristy: 1:11:57

So our listeners can't see me, but. You know, a lot of times we associate crying with like something negative.

Tam Tran: 1:12:07

Yeah.

Kristy: 1:12:09

I don't, you know, I'm not feeling like sadness. I just, I feel, I feel scared but excited at the same time. And I think as you were reading and describing that the journey is going to be hard and it's gonna be painful, but there is, there is like a blessing on the other side, you know, and that journey is well worth taking. And, and earlier on in the show, I had just, just described, climbing up a hill to get place where we can feel better.

Tam Tran: 1:12:43

Mm-hmm this card

Kristy: 1:12:43

shows up, today, I think just listening to how it was being described. I felt very emotional. And that's why, that's why these tears showed up, you where I'm at in life. I think there are a lot of unknowns coming up and I think that that speaks to what the card was saying. I, I have a lot of unknowns in my career. Like where am I going? what, what am I gonna choose to do? I'm about to graduate from grad school.

Tam Tran: 1:13:12

Mm-hmm

Kristy: 1:13:13

I'm having some unknowns in, in terms of my relationship status and, and what's going on there. and, and I had some unknowns of even where I'll be living. Like what city am I gonna be living? And what. What is that going to look like? My, just my whole living situation, what is that going to look like? So there's a lot of things coming up, and it is scary, but also I'm, I am excited even though it's I know it's gonna be a tough journey. I, can't wait see what's in store, you know?

Tam Tran: 1:13:48

yeah, yeah. Everything around you is that, that darkness, like in the picture, but you know that where you're going is so much so beautiful. It's like this Oasis that's like waiting for you. But, you know, to get there, it's gonna be painful. And it requires, if it's okay to share like possibly shedding, right. Kristy just like a little bit of the shedding of what got you here, where you're at now is not gonna get you to where you wanna be. And it's the unknown, that's the scariest, cuz you know, you're, there is no rule book. There's no rule book or playbook. That's been written to take you to where you wanna be. So guess what? You're lucky to write that yourself.

Kristy: 1:14:26

Despite what our parents try to give us in of life. These are all the check boxes. You gotta do

Tam Tran: 1:14:33

exactly. but then we

Kristy: 1:14:34

look at the book and we're like, I don't really like it. So what now?

Tam Tran: 1:14:38

Toss it and write another one.

Kristy: 1:14:39

Yeah, write your own, go where your soul is. Vibrating the most. thank you for that. That was, that felt really powerful for me.

Tam Tran: 1:14:46

Oh, I'm so glad.

Angie: 1:14:47

while that was happening, at first I was like, okay, let's see what it would be like, you know, like I'm I was trying to appeal to my skepticism skepticism as well. Right. Because like you said, this is a medium for kind of helping us for our own thoughts. So I was like, okay, let's pretend like I'm Kristy right now. And like what you had read did nothing for me, but it had affected Kristy so much. And then what you read for me was so relatable for me that it's like, it's very cool.

Kristy: 1:15:19

like

Tam Tran: 1:15:20

you know,

Angie: 1:15:20

I don't know why it works, but it does. but doesn't matter, right? Like some, for some things, you know, the why, like going to therapy, you know, why you feel this way, you know why, but sometimes that might not be enough because you need to know how this one, we don't know why, but if it helps, then why would we dismiss it? Right. Like, think that's, that's something that. A lot of people in the west have a hard time grasping

Tam Tran: 1:15:47

that they need

Angie: 1:15:48

both the why and the help, but sometimes one isn't enough and sometimes one is just enough.

Tam Tran: 1:15:54

Exactly. Oh, I love what you said. So final thoughts on this topic. I promise our parents society, the world, the logical side of us wants to have reasoning and like the ability to like connect these dots. Right. But in the spiritual world, it really doesn't matter. It's about allowing and surrendering truly right. To, to just be in that state of flow. And it's so hard, right? Because our logical side's like, I need to know all this stuff and I need to like have logic and reasoning to understand why all this is happening. and my daily life and I'm going through an emotion or when stuff is happening to me. What if you were to take a step back and allow what's meant to happen to us, knowing that the universe is giving this to us for a very re good reason. And sometimes it's not about knowing the why or how or whatever it is, but just surrendering that it's happening and just being present with that. And the reason why I say that is because a lot of people want abundance, right? It's like, I want all these things, but it's like, you have to truly surrender sometimes to what, where and what the universe has in store for you to be, to attract the abundance and to be in that state of flow. And the reason why the re readings obviously are so polar opposite and they're different for each person. And obviously, you know, like I'm not, I don't know you both other than, you know, like our time through Instagram. Right. so obviously this is not like a planned thing, right. I just kind of randomly pick cards for you, but this is truly what the universe wanted you guys to hear. So just rendering to that and just saying like, We are both, we're all in the right place at the right time. And that's all that matters at this point.

Angie: 1:17:30

Yep. very well said.

Kristy: 1:17:33

I'm just breathing it all in. And I think

Tam Tran: 1:17:35

that's a, like an

Kristy: 1:17:36

excellent way for us to wrap up our episode, tam, thank you again for sharing your wisdom, sharing your vulnerable stories about your childhood and the journey that you had taken to become who you are today and, that with not just us, but also our listeners as well. Where can some of our listeners find you if they relate it to work, your stories, whatever to do some card readings themselves.

Tam Tran: 1:18:04

There you go. If you're in interested. Yeah, you can find me on Instagram. so at stigma free movement, or my website, stigma free movement.com. You know, I'm excited and I wanna do a special thing for your audience listening. You know, if you guys are resonate with anything that's been said and shared and talked about today, I'm actually gonna be leading breathwork, sessions where you can drop in and just be with the body, with emotions, all of that. I absolutely for free, so if you wanna join, join in on this you know, have a different tools, to use to kind of manage your stress anxiety or your emotions, you know, I'm here for it. So as where you can find me and, thank you so much, Angie and Christie, not only just for, you know, starting and falling your gut to, to create this safe space for, for people like me to speak up and share. but also just being vulnerable to show the world that it's okay to have. All the emotions and know that they're not who you are, but we're just in this. Right. and just so thank you so much for being vulnerable, cuz I don't know if I would be as vulnerable if you did not create that space for me. I almost feel like it's cathartic and liberating to share it. Cuz I, I, that wasn't the intention going into this at all. It was like, let's just go with wherever it, it needs to go. and I, I don't know if I've ever publicly spoke about my Bo up up about my bullying. I kind of share a little bit, but I never go deep. Cause I also don't want the person who had did it to me just. Feel shame and guilt or whatever it was, cuz they probably didn't know what they were doing. So yeah. So thank you

Angie: 1:19:39

and thank you so you for coming on the show.

Tam Tran: 1:20:11

How was a card reading what'd you guys think? that was

Angie: 1:20:14

really literally on Amazon right now. I just added it to

Tam Tran: 1:20:17

my

Kristy: 1:20:18

oh my God.

Angie: 1:20:20

like literally it's in my cart right now, along with, 100 pack of garbage regs.

Kristy: 1:20:27

All the necessities that those

Tam Tran: 1:20:30

there you go. Oh, that's so funny.

Kristy: 1:20:32

should I go on Amazon now, too?