54. Breaking Away from "Asian" Parenting Styles ft. Vincci Tsui

Vincci Tsui, a mother of a three-year-old, balances her parenting knowledge from how she was raised with what she believes to be best for her daughter.  We discuss what we’ve learned from our parents and what has been taught to us from living in a western society. Which teachings to adopt and which to unlearn? What fears do we have as new parents? 

“This is something that's new for so many people, like not just from a cultural perspective or generational perspective […] we're not alone and we're probably not going to scar our kids for life if we're doing the best that we can.” - Vincci Tsui

Resources & Mentions:

• Vincci Tsui (Website & Instagram)
• How Co-regulation with Parents Develops into Self-Regulation in Children (Article)
• Your Brain's 3 Emotion Regulation Systems (Article)

Transcript

Vincci: 0:00

it's funny that you're kind of like, you don't need to go to therapy. Like you can just look on the internet. And I was like, Or you could just listen to this podcast,

Kristy: 0:31

welcome back to another episode of Shit We Don't Tell Mom. This is Christy.

Angie: 0:35

this is Angie.

Kristy: 0:36

We have Vincci Tsui who's joining us today, and she is a 1.5 generation Hong Kong Chinese Canadian, who's living in Calgary. She's mostly known for her work as a dietician and certified intuitive eating counselor. I am a secretly not so secret, big fan of her work. I've been following her stuff for like years, so I'm kind of basically fangirling right now. But I'm gonna put that aside because today we're gonna be talking about breaking the generational cycle of Asian parenting. So welcome to the Chauvin.

Vincci: 1:10

Thank you so much for having me, You summarized so Well, and now I'm like blushing cuz I didn't realize this was a fangirl moment. This wasn't part of the agreed upon introduction.

Kristy: 1:23

This whole time when we've been like emailing each other, I keep telling Angie to to do the emailing because I'm like, I'm gonna freak out. I'm gonna like get all fan girly and like weird about things. So please candle all the communications, and I just lurk in the background. But anyways, welcome, welcome.

Vincci: 1:46

Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.

Angie: 1:47

Yeah, Christie's really good at that. She's always the summarizer of our episodes,

Vincci: 1:52

it's a, it's a motivational interviewing skill.

Angie: 1:58

Oh really? I had no idea. Oh my

Vincci: 2:01

Yeah. It's a, it's a counseling skill. Yeah.

Kristy: 2:04

The secrets have.

Vincci: 2:08

Well, and it's funny because like speaking of counseling skills, like it's really something that I've had to learn as a dietitian. Like it wasn't something that came naturally to me. and I have found that, yeah, like sometimes, not all the time, sometimes leaning on those skills, like in parenting has been super helpful. I have a three year old daughter. Her name is Cassia.

Angie: 2:32

Cass? Yeah. That's so cute. That's a good name.

Vincci: 2:35

I actually used to babysit someone with that name. but, what I like about it is it's like unique, but it's not something that you can't pronounce. Like my name,

Kristy: 2:49

Okay. I think that is like very great of you to consider because growing up, I didn't grow up with the name Christie. I grew up with my Chinese name, which is Winan. And that was always something I thought about. I'm like, when I have kids, when I was younger, I wanted kids. Now not so much, but when I was younger, I'm like, Oh my gosh. I think about what their names are gonna be. I think about their birthdays, like, are they gonna fall into the school year so that they get celebrated during school? My birthday's very close to Halloween and I hated it because I always get overshadowed by Halloween

Vincci: 3:26

Part of Cass's name too, like, so Cassia is actually like, a plant and that they use it as like a substitute for cinnamon. So I think like, technically, like most of the cinnamon that we get in stores is not actually cinnamon. It's like it is cassia. So, yeah. So that's part of it too.

Angie: 3:44

I think that's, That's Chinese cinnamon,

Vincci: 3:48

Mm, mm-hmm. sort of. And, and so part of the meaning there too, I was like, Well, if you want to know the origin of Cass's name. so yeah, so Cassia like in Chinese, it's, Y White or that's Cantonese. And so the word white is also a character that's in my dad's name and in my husband. So my husband, his dad is Chinese and his mom is Caucasian. So his dad's name like, also has the word tree in it. So I thought it was also like kind of a connection there, which is part of the reason why I chose Cassia. Yeah,

Kristy: 4:22

This is so poetic,

Angie: 4:24

Yeah. I love it.

Kristy: 4:25

there's so many layers and meaning to this. I'm just like floored. Here. I am thinking about like all these superficial things.

Angie: 4:34

Like birthday parties and

Kristy: 4:36

Yeah.

Angie: 4:37

No, I love that. That's, that's really meaningful and I like that you. are integrating like all the heritage from your family and putting it into your daughter because you know she's a result of all of that.

Vincci: 4:50

Cassia does have a Chinese name and my parents hate it. So when it first came to naming Cassia, like giving her, Well, I, well, obviously, I asked my parents like, Do you have any ideas for Chinese names? And they were like, Well, what's her English name going to be like, We'll, just find a name. That sounds like it. Because that's almost like the backward process of how they figured out Vinci was like, They had my Chinese name first, which is Wing Z. And then they like just mashed some letters together that sounded like that, like in their head. And that's how it worked for all my siblings names as well. And I was like, No, you are not going to like just come up with a Chinese name that sounds like her English name. Like that is not gonna be good. So I ended up coming up with her Chinese name, which is, seeing y which like scene means compassionate and yang means brave. and my parents hate it, I think because y sort of codes male and it's also in, or like, it's an older like generation name. yeah, they hate it. It's so funny. they refuse to call her a Chinese name. They just call her Cass

Kristy: 5:59

I love, I love that. And I love that you named your daughter yourself.

Vincci: 6:03

Yeah, it's, it's not as common in Chinese, but like what is so wild to me though, like speaking of like Chinese names, is that I'm part of like a bunch of like Cantonese, like Facebook groups, cuz I'm dorky like that. And there are so many people in those groups who are like, I'm trying to name my kid, like, help me come up with names with my kid. I was like, why would you outsource that to a Facebook group? every time I have like a standard reply that's like, Talk to your family. Even though like, in my experience, my family was completely unhelpful,

Kristy: 6:39

okay. Side note, I am also part of these catches. I'm, I might not be in the same one as yours because I haven't seen these. I'm in some like, extra niche one cuz my family is from, from the village, or,

Vincci: 6:55

from the village.

Kristy: 6:56

Going back to your family and your parents growing up, what was, what was your relationship like with them?

Vincci: 7:03

I mean, so I think like part of The reason why I pitched this episode was because like listening to your guys' interview on, what kind of Asian are you? And you're both like, we both have complicated relationship with our moms. And I was like, Me too, My, Yeah. Yeah. Like I, I would describe it as complicated and, my dad, like, he still has his company in Hong Kong. Like, so growing up, like throughout my entire life, he's always just kind of flown back and forth between Calgary and Hong Kong. even right now, like with the Pandemic, I haven't seen him for almost three years and like in person and he's finally coming back, next month, like, which is, which was like, yeah. The best news ever. But, so yeah, so I, I would say like my relationship with my parents was never super close. The interesting thing was always that like, I never knew whether this was like an Asian thing or whether this was like a, like my family thing because, My family, especially my mom's side. We have a good ha like a good number of cousins. I'm like trying to count in my head like how many of us there are. I think there are six of us. I'm like trying to do the math really fast so that I, I'm not like missing anyone. Yeah. So I think there are six of us on my mom's side of the family, like as cousins. And so like, you know, like when we would have family dinners, like as cousins, we would always just kind of like, you know, talk about family gossip and it was always just kind of like, okay, like is this just something that's like our family or is this like, you know, like an Asian thing? and I would never know so. Yeah, so like, I guess to go back to answering your question, I think we, you sort of see stuff, especially I would say like more in Western media where, you know, people say like, My mom is my best friend, or I can tell my mom anything. And like, that is not the kind of relationship that I have with my mom at all.

Kristy: 9:13

I think especially because, you know, we're kids, we don't like talk about our families to our friends. And I think it's great that, you know, you had your cousins to at least bond over this and was like, Is this, is this just our family that's messed up? Like, is it, why are we so dysfunctional? Like it can't be Maybe it's just us. Cause then the representation that we see would be like things in the media or things, you know, on TV shows, blah, blah, blah. And, and I don't know about you, but I could never relate. You know, I just didn't get it. And the, the whole best friend thing, that was not something I thought that was the most fringiest thing. Every time I see it on tv, like, you know, the mom and the daughters would link arms and skip along in the mall with their shopping bags and they have like a spa day. And I'm like, what the, that sounds no. Why would you want us do that? Why would mom even agree to that? Like it would be horrible. All she'll talk about is like how expensive the thing is or you know, have some sort of a critique on the clothing choices, whatever. And I, for me, I felt like it wasn't until like the age of the internet and memes and Instagram where I start seeing other people post things that I'm like, Hey, that I relate to that talking about, and we'll get stereotypical here like the tiger mom trope, right?

Vincci: 10:38

Mm-hmm.

Angie: 10:38

I think Asian traits was one of those, viral thing that kind of started the, a lot of this movement. Like, I remember looking at it, I'm like, How come we've never had anything like this before? Like I think that was why it was so magical. It wasn't just like, it wasn't just Australia, cuz it started in Australia, but it wasn't just in Australia. It like came over here. It was so prolific around the world because it was something we never had and that's why it was so popular. And

Vincci: 11:05

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Angie: 11:06

were so many offshoots from that. I actually have a really funny story so I had a friend from high school. She is like third generation Chinese. her mom is very whitewashed, so I remember like going to their house, having dinner. but it was kind of cool because her mom will like, serve the soup at the beginning. You know, like the Chinese, like medicinal soup. Some of the dishes will be like, like beef pasta, like beef ballies kind of thing. But And I was like, this is so strange. Like, but I love it. don't call me Mrs. Won. Call me Irene. So she was the first like adult level authority figure that I had ever called by first name. And it was just like such a weird feeling. And one time I was out with my mom grocery shopping, and we bumped into Irene and she was like, Angie, how are you? And like, she comes over to me with like her arms. So of course I give her a hug and like I'm like, Oh, this is my mom, a mom, this is like my friend's mom, blah, blah, blah. And then she leaves and my mom's like, She didn't say at the time, but she brought it up at another time. Later on she was telling somebody else about how horrible I am because I don't hug her. She's like, She will hug other people's moms, but she won't hug her own mom. I still can't hug like I'm now 31. And I, and that happened when I was like 16 It's been like 15 years that I still cannot hug my mom, and I don't know what it is. So my mom, she's from China. She grew up in China. She immigrated here and I came here when I was nine years old and she actually went into early childhood education. So because of that, she was able to learn a lot of like the western way of. Being with children and raising children, stuff like that. So she became a lot more open minded, a a lot more like, perceptive to the Western ways. And she's adopted some of those ways. Like she wants to hug me, but I told her like,

Kristy: 13:01

That's what she adopted. That's the takeaway. Your mom really wants to hug you, which is

Angie: 13:07

okay, now I still, I give her hugs sometimes, like, depending on the context, but it's not like an everyday thing, you know what I mean? and my justification is that we grew up not hugging. Like I have never hugged you as a child and for me to hug you as like an adult. It's just so weird. Like, it, it, it's, it's a weird feeling.

Kristy: 13:27

And Vin, do you hug your mom?

Vincci: 13:29

I didn't growing up either, but I would say like in later years, and I think it started more with my dad, like, you know, like dropping him off at the airport or like picking him up at the airport, like we would hug and stuff and like, but it didn't start until, I don't know, like we were teenagers or possibly adults, like, and so yeah, like it, it was definitely something that happened later on in life, and not when we were kids.

Kristy: 13:59

Okay. I'm gonna just insert something here because like we're talking about these stories, you know, from, from when we were younger, so it seems like it's so distant, but just a few days ago. My mom was telling me about her friend and her friend's son. Okay. And how he would hug his mom every day, every time they see each other, they would hug and he would say, I love you, mom, and hug her. And every time he has a bad day at work, he would rant to her and talk to her about it. Cuz she's like, I can't, I have to put on this front because I see clients, but sometimes it's just so frustrating. And he will just, you know, go home with his mom. and and I, and, and I'm like, Okay, well why are you telling me this story, Mom? Like, what are you implying

Angie: 14:58

oh, yeah, she's definitely imp pawing something. She's definitely like, You should be hugging me every day. Or like, I want you to hug me every day. But it's weird, right? Like it, imagine having to hug your mom every single day when you haven't done so in like 30 something years.

Kristy: 15:14

I'm like, I love the story. I feel so happy for your friend, and I'm so happy for the sun. Like, Like good on them. It sounds like they have a great relationship. Yay. Let's move on.

Angie: 15:26

Vici? Do you hug your daughter

Vincci: 15:28

Yeah. Yeah.

Kristy: 15:32

look at that. We're already breaking the generational cycle.

Angie: 15:35

Yeah,

Kristy: 15:42

I'm curious to know, do you talk to your parents about parent.

Vincci: 15:47

Not really. So we actually had my daughter in daycare like kind of leading up to the pandemic, which was very rare because she wasn't even one years old then. But, you know, since I'm, since I'm like, I'm self-employed, I just kind of took a shorter maternity leave and, and started, going back to work before the whole year and, So the pandemic started and we pulled her out of childcare. And, the arrangement that we kind of had was that like my in-laws would watch her for a few days a week, and then my mom would also watch her for a few days a week. And I was actually, like nervous about having my mom watch her because I was like, Ugh. Like, is she going to like instill stuff that I don't necessarily believe in or, yeah. So you like, now that I'm saying it out loud, it's almost kind of embarrassing, but I think like even thinking about the way. I was parented and, and some of the ways that I don't necessarily want to repeat that. so no, like I feel like it takes a lot for me to tell, my mom, something like, last night even, since my daughter like kind of goes to her house once a week, I was just like, Hey, like, just wanted to give you a heads up. Cassie has a bladder infection right now. And like her first response was like, how did she get a bladder infection? And it was just like, Oh my God. Like, I have no idea. You know,

Kristy: 17:21

you can feel the like, I can feel the blame already like,

Vincci: 17:25

So to answer your question, like, that was a very long, way, long, roundabout way. So you can edit it if you want for me to say like, No, I don't really talk about, Yeah. Talk with my parents about parenting. because I, I don't know if I necessarily agree with the way that they parent.

Kristy: 17:44

Yep. And I relate to that because I would also be nervous to, if I were to have a kid, I would feel uncomfortable leaving my kid with my mom in the same room while I'm not there. Because I'm afraid that there's gonna be like old school thinking or old school mentalities, and teachings that might come out from her. And then I'm not there to, you know, negate that or put a boundary to it. I can come up with a few things in my own, like head for what my mom could say, but I'm curious to know, what are some of the things that you're afraid your mom might say to

Vincci: 18:23

I don't, Yeah, like, I'm trying to think of, I think it was, I think at the time it was like probably stuff around food, like being a dietician. Like, you know, like is she going to like force her to eat all her food, like even if she isn't hungry or something like that. And it's funny because I think it's. I think it's been more influenced sort of by my in-laws. You know, like my in-laws will like drop her off from watching her and be like, Oh, you know, today at lunch, like Cassia said, Oh, I'm not gonna eat this. Like, I want something that's healthy. And I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like where, where did she get this like, healthy, unhealthy messaging from? But a again, like, you know, and I don't know if it's something that comes from my in-laws or I don't know if it's something that like came from like a YouTube video that she watched or whatever, or, or, or like once I think I. Ate something or finished something and Cassia said, Good girl. Or like, but the way she says girl is like guru, So she's like, Good guru mama, you like did this. And I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like it, you know, like finishing your food. Like, you know, like I shouldn't be complimenting you for like finishing your meal and stuff, but like, that's kind of something that she's already picked up on. And it's hard because like since she's so young, like I think it's easy to like laugh it off and be like, Oh, you know, she's a little kid. Like, but yeah. so I don't think it's just my parents, but I think it's probably just like a lot of like societal beliefs in, in general, and I think like, going back to maybe like what I might have been worried about, it might have been like expectations around like certain behavior and stuff like that. So, Yeah, but it, but I don't know. I think in general it's been fine. Like people grandparent differently than they parent

Kristy: 20:24

Yeah,

Vincci: 20:25

and also and also my sister still lives at home and like, she's currently getting her degree in education. So like, you know, like I know she's kind of there too. but, yeah, so I, I don't know, like I, so I would say like in general, my fears have been unfounded. and you know, and that Cassie has sometimes picked up on some of the stuff I don't agree with from other places too. mm-hmm.

Angie: 20:56

I think that's very interesting. and I, there's this, phrase that my mom taught me in Chinese and the English translation is essentially, if you raise your children right, then you can spoil your grandchildren. If you spoiled your children, then you have to raise your grandchildren.

Vincci: 21:21

Oh,

Angie: 21:23

So there's definitely a lot of, you know, parenting methods that we would agree with from our parents. And I think that might be common universally, I want to say, I think.

Vincci: 21:34

mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Angie: 21:36

just so prolific for our culture and there are a lot of things we don't agree with. Not just in terms of like the era, but also just in terms of culture as well. Cuz we are so much more integrated into like Western society than they are. But I think maybe not a but, but maybe as a third party it's always easier to see the good stuff when you're outside. It's like, it sounds like you're doing so much for your daughter. Like you're, you're, you're really considerate of her future. You wanna make sure that she's eating right, et cetera. And maybe that's also a little bit of a reflection of your parents as well. I like to think that if you have come out as a really good person, you can attribute some of that to your parents as well. not always, not always. There's definitely, exceptions out there, but. Yeah, so I just wanna say like it's, I mean, as a third person, it's definitely easier for me to say than to, to actually know what's going on.

Vincci: 22:40

Yeah, and I, and I wouldn't say that I have a bad relationship with my parents at all. Like I, Yeah, no, like, that's not how I would describe it. But I would say that it's probably like more distant than what other people's with their parents might be like. Like, like I said earlier, like I wouldn't call my mom like my best friend or, I don't think my parents are necessarily the first ones that I would tell, like certain things. and other things, they are the first ones like, I think they were like the first ones to know that I was pregnant, but like, but yeah, so like, but I would say, yeah, it's, it's not as, I don't know, like intimate or close, as some other people might have. and like, I think. That is also very common amongst like other Asian people.

Kristy: 24:27

Yeah. Speaking of that and alluding to the memes that I was talking about earlier, Vici, you had sent us an Instagram post, and I'm gonna try my best to describe the post to our listeners cause we're so good at doing this. Okay, So, this sketch, this doodle is from Sketchy car. We'll link it in the show notes below. So the first half of the sketch is titled What Asian Parents Want for Their Kids. And the Laundry list is something that we are very familiar with, is to marry, quote unquote, Well go to university, have job security, have a great house, money, lots of money, kids of course, and then bracket happiness. Now, on the other side of the doodle is titled What Asian Kids Want from their Parents. Which is validation, acknowledgement of our traumas. Positive reinforcement to hear are the words. I love you to hear the words. I'm proud of you being accepted and of course having red packets for the rest of our lives. Just keep that red envelopes coming. So Vinci, you sent us this illustration. I feel like there's, there's some deeper stories behind it. What, what are some of your thoughts and yeah, what got you sharing this with.

Vincci: 25:52

Well, what was interesting to me about that is that like, you know, like the comments on it, like so many people are like, I relate or whatever. And it's tricky be that like she did add that line about like the red packets because like what ends up, I think what ended up happening in the comments too was that people would be like, Oh yeah, like the red packets or whatever. even, and not necessarily acknowledging like all these other things. And like to me it's kind of like, okay, like yes, like we as Asian kids like want this from our Asian parents. So when we become parents, like wouldn't we want to give those things to our kids, If that makes sense. and I see a lot of parents. Like when I look at it, I'm like, yeah, like wouldn't you want to give those things to your kids? Like, wouldn't you want your kids to feel validated or to say I love you to them or whatever. and, and, and then, and so I'm just kind of like, like why does this sort of continue that we like that we have like generations on, generations like still relating to these memes. And I think there's also like, There's also like other people who are in our generation who might feel like, well, like this is what I have to be as an Asian parent. Or like this, like, I turned out fine. So like this, this should work for our kids too. And like the example that I have is that recently, in one of the groups that I'm in there, like someone had posted like a video and like full disclosure, I was actually part of like this YouTube channel earlier on and I, and I left it like for just cuz I was like, busy. But anyway, it's, it's like basically like a Cantonese talk show. And like this, this episode was supposedly about like, are we being too, like p politically correct in our parenting? Like, are we being too soft? And like now they can't like stand hardship. And I was just like that like, How is it a bad thing to, you know, like not be the one that like, puts not to be the one who puts your kids through like pain or trauma or whatever. Like, to me, I feel like we have, there are lots of opportunities out there in the world that, you know, we are going to experience pain and hurt and disappointment, or our kids are going to ex experience pain or hurt or disappointment. Like you, Like why do you want to be the one who contributes to that? Like, why wouldn't you want to be a safe haven for, like, so that your kids will know that they're not going to be experiencing that at that at home? I mean like, Okay. Like granted, like I was so. Angry at that like episode description that I didn't watch it. I don't know if like, I think it's three people on the show. I don't know if they all had like differing opinions, but like to me, the way that, like they described it, that this is politically correct parenting. Like, it's like you've already made your views clear and, and it's, yeah, and, and, and I, and I don't like, and it's like, and I, I was just like, I'm not going to like, spend energy engaging with this, knowing what, you know, like their stance already was.

Angie: 29:43

I could totally see where that connection, cuz I would feel the same way because the issue is so much more nuanced than that for them to be like, Oh, this is politically correct and if it's politically correct then it's, it's not good or whatever. And that was one thing that I had actually learned in therapy because we're so used to, and I mentioned this in a previous episode a long time ago, so I don't even remember which episode it was, but I, my therapist was, is a Chinese Canadian as well. So I think, she knew exactly where I was coming from and she showed me this diagram. It's basically a triangle and there are quote unquote three systems, three response systems that we have. And it's very applicable for parenting so there's the reward system, so that's like the dopamine where you do something and you get rewarded. So if you wanna relate it back to parenting, it's like, okay, if you eat all your food, then you're gonna get praised for saying, Good girl. Or if you get great, if your parents are like, Oh, if you get straight A's, I'm gonna buy you an Xbox. This is like very dopamine and it's very reward based, which is, which is fine. It's very, but it's also very short term based. And the other one is fear based. So that's like the fight or flight response system where it's a lot more scary. And we're all very familiar with how that could damage a child's. The way that they view themselves and maybe self-esteem if you're like, well, if you don't get straight A's, then you're not gonna get your phone for a month. Or like, Oh, you're grounded. Or if you don't eat your food, then go to your room and blah, blah, blah. Like the negative feedback really triggers that, fear response. And then you respond with things like adrenaline or cortisol or stuff like that. And those two systems is like, Yeah, that's, that's parenting. Like we're so used to that from the past generations. But there's actually a third one, which I hadn't known about. And this, you don't have to go to therapy to learn this either. Like all this information is available on the internet. but the third one is the soothing system. And I think the soothing system is what people call politically correct or whatever, because the soothing system, it's basically. Let's say your child didn't get straight ass and they were expecting themselves to get straight As. The soothing system would be like, Well how does that make you feel? And this is the, you know, this is the soft whatever, parenting that I think gen older generations like, well that's not gonna work. but soothing system is basically teaching your child to soothe their own emotions and that it's not the end of the world if they don't get straight A's. it's not the end of the world. They can't finish their food. Like the soothing system also is also where they go, Okay, well I'm full and I don't have to eat everything that's on the table, even though somebody else is telling me too, because. I feel pressure, but I don't need to give into this pressure. And that is such a thought. That's not just like new to our culture, but I think just in general, the soothing system isn't really used that much in parenting. And I think there's a lot of misconception that if a parent, you know, a millennial parent is using the soothing system for their children, it's like, oh, well you're teaching them to be soft. You're teaching them to be, you know, not be able to handle hardship. But I think it's as actually complete opposite. You're teaching them to be able to connect with their emotions to like so themselves through a hardship, which, so when they do, encounter hardship, then they actually know how to approach it. But I think it is very nuanced because we're not a hundred percent familiar with how to do that yet. Like we, Cause we were never taught, so we're kind of like broaching the subject for the first time. And, and, and you might do it wrong. You might soothe them rather. Teaching them how to sooth. And I think that's the biggest difference.

Vincci: 33:46

Yeah, that's a great way of explaining it. And it's funny that you're kind of like, you don't need to go to therapy. Like you can just look on the internet. And I was like, Or you could just listen to this podcast,

Kristy: 33:54

Yeah, cause we know all about parenting.

Angie: 34:00

Well, that's why.

Vincci: 34:00

and it's No, no, no. Seriously, like I didn't, like, I, I went like, yeah, I pitched this episode. Like, not because I think I'm an expert in parenting in any way at all. and maybe I should have said this earlier in the episode, but more because like, I think parenting. Does feel, very, I don't know if lonely is the right word, but like, what's tough I think is because like, it feels like, well, like anybody could be a parent. So like it shouldn't be that hard, but it is, and it's wild to me. I know this is completely unrelated, but like one of the things that I was very conscious of not doing like professionally was that like professionally, like I have zero experience with children. Like I've never worked in like pediatric nutrition. And I was like, Okay, like when I become a parent, I'm not gonna be one of those dieticians who all of a sudden is an expert on like pregnancy, nutrition, and then child nutrition because there are dieticians like that. And it like drives me wild. And so I was very conscious of that. And so, yeah, like coming onto this show and like wanting to talk about parenting has been less about like, I'm an expert cuz I have zero like technical knowledge, but more like sharing my experiences in hopes that perhaps other people who listen to the show, like have similar experiences and have, you know, maybe like they can relate to it and feel not so alone or like you can even reach out. And so that I don't feel so alone. but yeah, like I'm definitely not an expert on this at all. and I think, you know, talking about parenting and also talking about like my parents, I think like I do notice sometimes too that like I will say things and do things and I'm like, ugh. Like my mom would've done that or said that. And I'm like, No, I'm turning into my mom. Yeah. So I think you're so right, Angie, that like, this is something that's new for so many people, like not just from a cultural perspective or generational perspective. like I, I, yeah, like it is a bit of both and, and so I think we're all just kind of like muddling through this together and in the moment sometimes it's hard to remember, but like, you know, like, yeah, we're not alone and like, we're not, we're probably not going to like scar our kids for life, if we're, you know, doing the best that we.

Kristy: 36:46

And I just wanna point out, we didn't bring you onto the show because we were like, Oh my God, I haven't, She's the expert because no matter if, you know, whatever role we take on, Whether that's being a new parent, whether it's, in a professional role, whether it's just understanding what it's like to be an adult. No one really knows what they're doing. And I think the best and most comforting thing is to know that other people also don't know what they're doing, but we just all try our best. It's not like we're just gonna fuck around, you know, but we're all just trying our best but it doesn't mean that we're all experts in, in this role or this title. And at the end of the day, it's comforting to know that, oh, other people also only have a little bit of a clue, and that means I'm not messed up. That means I'm not inferior. Like we're all just trying to figure it out. And the more we have these conversations, the more we get to realize that that's true. Otherwise, it's just we're having these conversations in our own heads and that's what makes it feel lonely

Angie: 38:02

And that's why we started the podcast because we were having these conversations of, you know, doubt and anxiety and depression in our own heads we're like, Well, if we talk about it, then people will feel less lonely. And Vinci, when you said like, sometimes like when I'm parenting, like when I'm trying to figure out this parenting thing, I feel very lonely and I'm like, oh my God. Like that's another thing that just needs to be talked about. We just need to make it so clear that, you know, it's not, it's so hard because like, I, I feel like I see a lot of, Instagrams with like moms and families where they post like the best photo that they have or post the best memories they have, and it makes you feel even more lonely because you're like, That's not my, that's not my life. Like, that's like maybe like 10% of it. And then we forget that that's like 10% for them too. So like, these are conversations we need to be have. and yeah, we, when I said like Vinci, like yourself, I mean like, we don't have kids, so we gotta invite somebody to like yourself to come on and talk about your experience. And that's something I just learned from you is like, parenting can be very lonely. And I was like, Wow. I had never thought about it like that before.

Vincci: 39:13

Yeah, like, because I think there, there are like so many pressures out there, or like, especially with like the proliferation of like mom blogs or like mom influencers. There's definitely a lot more in terms of like what makes a, a. A good mom. and like, yeah, just very silly things like obviously like being a dietician, I'm like more familiar with the food side of things, but I'm sure there's like other stuff too that like people and I have felt pressure around, like even, you know, even like I was mentioning earlier, that like that Cassia has a bladder infection right now. I had actually missed it for like several days because we were all just getting better from Covid and, and so it didn't, so it took us a while to like finally realize that she had a bladder infection and then get her to the doctor and start on antibiotics. And so it's just been like a, like a long, like, it's just been a really tough course for her. And I've like, felt so guilty, like, oh, like why didn't I pick it up earlier? Like, why didn't I take her to the doctor sooner? And it's like, Viji, it's cuz you had covid and you couldn't go anywhere. But like, but then recently on Twitter, like someone had tweeted, you know, like my son was like grabbing my stu his stomach all the time and saying owie like finally we went to emergency. And it turns out like he had something called inter subception or something, which I think has to do with like, I dunno, the organ, like the, like the organs internally somehow, like, and so like now he's fine and sleeping and like the, the replies had like so many people being like, Yeah, you know, like my kid was sick and I didn't know for days. And then we finally got them to the doctor and like, thank God they're fine. But it was like, oh my gosh, like, yeah, like this just happened to me. And like in a case that's not even as severe as interception, but I did feel awful, like just kind of like, why didn't I realize earlier that this was what it was and started her on antibiotics sooner. so yeah. So you know, like we're all muddling through and mm-hmm and we're doing the best that we can.

Kristy: 41:33

And I think that's the, the best takeaway from today's episode. We started talking about, you know, breaking the generational cycle of Asian parenting. And I think I had my own definitions of what that meant. And I think we all have our own definitions of what that means. And there's probably a lot of overlap. But throughout this conversation we also learned that it's, it's not just within the Asian culture and it's not just about generational differences. It can be, and it could also be a whole bunch of other things. And to change the way that, you know,

Angie: 42:11

I'm okay. You.

Kristy: 42:12

we become parents ourselves is to think about what we had wanted from our parents and then be that person. And soft parenting, I'm just gonna put air quote soft parenting which is what Anj had described as the soothing like part three of that diagram. Maybe we'll find that diagram and we'll link it in the show notes, is really teaching kids how to trust their own senses, trust their emotions, learn how to process when things are not so great when. Things feel a certain way. And I think rather than seeing it as a, you know, soft or a weak way to parent, we're actually building resilience and strength. And that's something that we, many of us did not get to experience growing up. That's why we're learning about it as adults and we're like, Oh my gosh, there's so many things I have to unlearn, but also relearn as well. How do I trust my own senses and emotions and process things and recognize trauma? You know? And at the end of the day, we're all just trying to do the best we can, whether you're a parent or in any other role that you might have in your life. And at the end of the day, just have some self-compassion as we try to do the best that we can do. So thank you for that.

Vincci: 43:47

You summarized all that we talked about, so Well, And like, just to kind of add on a couple things to what Christie said, like when we're talking about the soothing system, it's, I think sometimes it's called co-regulating. So if you can't find anything under like, soothing system, if you search like maybe co-regulating, maybe you can find, more information on that. And another resource that has been very helpful for me has been untacking. Like, cuz it's like specifically like written by an Asian person. I know I even mentioned to you guys like that I've kind of been not a hundred percent into it because for, Iris who created untiring, like Untacking also includes unschooling. And I'm not a hundred percent into unschooling. Yet slash ever Just cuz like, I, I don't think I would have the patience to like do homeschooling.

Kristy: 44:47

What's unschooling? Just

Vincci: 44:50

it's ba I think it's like a form of. Unschooling or a form of homeschooling. Sorry, that's even like less structured. Like I think there is, like, there are some people who do homeschooling, but like they do it very like close to the government curriculum. And I think unschooling is even more like, you know, let your kids take the lead. Like self-directed stuff like that. Like that's kind of the impression that I get from, what unschooling is. And I'm just like, I do not I am not the, the unschooling type. Like I, I don't think I'm ready to let go of everything else that I have in my life to like commit to, you know, being like the teacher for my kid. And, but I think one of the things about Iris's story that like I tend to hold onto is that like she didn't start doing this new way of parenting until I think her oldest kid was eight. So like, when I like hear that, I'm like, oh, like, or especially when I have my moments where I'm like, ugh, I'm like dipping into being very authoritarian or, I said something that I didn't, that didn't come out right or in the tone that didn't come out like the way that I wanted to, then I kind of remember Okay, like it's not too late. Iris Chen didn't start until her kid was eight years old.

Kristy: 46:22

look at that self-compassion that you're giving yourself. Just recognize that work too. Vici,

Vincci: 46:30

Oh, thank you. Yeah.

Kristy: 46:34

Our last question What are you currently doing for yourself? right now for self care, I hesitate on self-care. because it becomes such a buzzword. But what is something that you are currently doing for yourself? Period.

Vincci: 46:48

Well, one of the things that I got really into like this year was like planning with like, and like doing like planner spreads with like washy tape and stickers and stuff like that. and so like one of the shops that I follow, like her YouTube channel, like, so she has one of the, she has a journal. Or a planner called the HoChi cousin and it has like a weekly section and a daily section. And so like she, journals like in her daily section and like watching her channel in inspired me to start journaling. So I've been journaling every day since April 1st, or even earlier than that this year. cuz I have an April start HoChi like, here it is. viewers can't see it, but I'm like just kind of flipping through. It's like stickers and washy and journaling. but yeah, I've been journaling every day and some, and sometimes it's like not very deep. Sometimes this is just like, this is what happened today. And other times there are like things that are a little more, I don't know. I don't know. I don't, I think pro saying profound would give myself too much credit, but just like, like yeah, like other stuff is just more like personal and emotional. That's a better way to phrase it. yeah, so that's something that I've been doing is journaling every.

Kristy: 48:07

I love that. I'm a big fan of journaling, so, And, and your journal looked great just seeing you flip through the pages, there's like different colors. The washy tapes are there. You're doing some like lettering I saw from what I, from what you had shown. Thank you again for hanging out with us today, Vici, and sharing your stories and where can some of our proof troops find you? Vinci

Vincci: 48:32

poop troops. Okay.

Kristy: 48:34

It's what we call our listeners. They voted

Vincci: 48:36

right. Oh, okay. Well, poof Troops. Well, it's like, like, you know, in Christie's intro earlier on in the show, I like my, most of my online presence is professional, so you can find me through like my dietician website. it's, it's my name, It's vinci choy.com and I'll spell it. It's V I n c C I t S u i.com. And, and yeah, and I'm on Instagram or Twitter or Facebook, at Vinci r d.

Kristy: 49:05

Awesome. And of course everything will be in the show notes.

Vincci: 49:08

Thanks so much for having me.