12. Codependency and Intergenerational Trauma ft. William Shaw

Our new friend Will share's his childhood experience growing up biracial in the deep south. We discuss codependency, people-pleasing tendencies, team cat vs team dog, and cutting toxic parental figures out of our lives for the sake of our own mental health. 

Highlights:

• What does it actually mean to be codependent?
• Are you team dog or team cat? 
• Will speaks about what it's like growing up biracial in the deep south
• Growing up with a parent who never healed themselves 

Takeaways:

• We all get our shit together at a different pace
• Having codependent habits doesn't mean you can't break them
• You can grieve a parent but also feel relieved that the toxicity is gone 
• The bonds you choose to hold on to can mean more than the ones you were born with

Enjoyed this episode? Share with a friend who might benefit! Hit subscribe to get the latest episodes and leave us a comment so we know what you love about the show!

---- 

Let Kristy & Angie know what cringy and uncomfortable conversation topics you would like to listen to! Record us a 60-second voice message and share with us your thoughts, comments, or questions. Drop your love here!

Instagram @shitwedonttellmom 
Email: shitwedonttellmom@gmail.com 

Transcript

Kristy Yee: [00:00:00] I can't hear you. We can't hear you. 

[00:00:01]William Shaw: [00:00:01] Don't hear anything. 

[00:00:03]Kristy Yee: [00:00:03] I know. Cause I'm muted. 

[00:00:04]William Shaw: [00:00:04] Oh snap. 

[00:00:05]

[00:00:05]  Kristy Yee: [00:00:28] Here we go welcome to another episode of shit. We don't tell mom today. We have a special guest with us, William Shaw that we met on Facebook, which is where all the great people.

[00:00:40] William Shaw: [00:00:40] Yeah, no, that's how, you know, it's real because once you get that friend requests that it's a real friendship, otherwise real life superficial.

[00:00:47]Kristy Yee: [00:00:47] do you prefer to go by William or what? Well, 

[00:00:49] William Shaw: [00:00:49] William will never bill. it's just weird. I feel weird being called bill. 

[00:00:55] Kristy Yee: [00:00:55] Yeah. I also don't understand how William becomes bill. That's a completely different letter change, like is that even allowed? 

[00:01:02] William Shaw: [00:01:02] you know, I dropped out of college twice going for creative writing.

[00:01:04] So with my lack of a college degree, I'm going to say, I think it's allowed, I guess, but I don't like, 

[00:01:10]Kristy Yee: [00:01:10] but you know what? I just realized I totally jumped into just straight chatting and we didn't even introduce William. 

[00:01:17] William Shaw: [00:01:17] Oh, my God. 

[00:01:18] Kristy Yee: [00:01:18] It's so 

[00:01:19] William Shaw: [00:01:19] rude. How 

[00:01:21] Kristy Yee: [00:01:21] I assume that he wants to share things with us because he said yes to being on our podcast.

[00:01:28] How dare I? 

[00:01:30] William Shaw: [00:01:30] How dare you not give me the proper introduction that I've deserved as your guest? Jeez. 

[00:01:35] Kristy Yee: [00:01:35] So we'll watch our audience a little bit about yourself then. 

[00:01:39] William Shaw: [00:01:39] Sure. Sure. So my name is William Schott, the least sounding name you will ever hear. My father's white spoiler. so. I, was born in Florida, which is just a crazy place about, when I was 12, 13 ish.

[00:01:53] I moved up to South suburbs of Chicago in the last, well actually, April 1st I moved into the city proper right in the middle of the pandemics. So, wow. 

[00:02:01] Kristy Yee: [00:02:01] Yeah. Happy April fools. 

[00:02:05]William Shaw: [00:02:05] You know, it's not a joke. I 

[00:02:07] Kristy Yee: [00:02:07] mean whole 2020 is a joke, but 

[00:02:09] William Shaw: [00:02:09] God, tell me about it. I kept telling myself 2020 was the year I was going to get my shit together.

[00:02:15]Kristy Yee: [00:02:15] That's okay. What, what do you. This is my question. When people say, I need to get my shit together, or you need to get your shit together, what does that even mean to get your shit together? Like what binding agent ties your shit together? 

[00:02:29] William Shaw: [00:02:29] That's a really good question. And I think people use it as a general term when it can be used for a lot of things.

[00:02:36]I think. When I say that I kind of meant it a more fiscal and professional sort of capacity because, you know, just before the end of the new year, I had just, become a server to different restaurants that I had helped open up. So my, let's just say I was making a lot more money than I was beforehand.

[00:02:53] So starting to save up figured, okay, this is one step. The other step of it was, I'm an actor, right? COVID is not making that easy, obviously as well as the serving. But I wanted to just put myself in a position where first I'm in a bigger market, where there's a lot more of that work consistently second off, where I have to kind of just figure it out because I have a tendency of being very codependent.

[00:03:20] So, you know, like, you know, I love to lean on the people who were more than welcome to pay my way forward. and third of all, to just. Yeah, like, it's a sort of, how should I put this? You kind of want to, at some point, not have a safety net in the morning, you just want it to just take that leap. And I figured, you know, moving into the city, pursuing my dreams and not really having any one to focus on, but myself was the way to do that.

[00:03:45]Kristy Yee: [00:03:45] I mean, that sounds like you are getting your shit together, 

[00:03:49] William Shaw: [00:03:49] but alas, Kobe has to be out of work. So what up 

[00:03:53] Kristy Yee: [00:03:53] you, you have a direction like, I think a lot of times we will say, get shit together, get shit together. like they're looking for their direction, because.

[00:04:00]Hmm. I don't know. Maybe this is too philosophical, but like getting shit together to abide by what society thinks, having your shit together looks like isn't always getting your shit together. So I dunno where I'm going with this, please. No, I totally. Okay. Yeah. What I feel like when, even when I say get my shit together.

[00:04:21] It's exactly. That going through that checklist, a society wants you to achieve, right? Like get that great job. Save that money, buy that house. Married that person. Have those kids get two dogs, cats for me. 

[00:04:34] William Shaw: [00:04:34] Oh, we can't be friends anymore.   

[00:04:41] Kristy Yee: [00:04:41] Do see, we should start a pool. So every guest that comes on, we should see if they're a dog person or a cat team, dog, or team cats 

[00:04:48] William Shaw: [00:04:48] and 

[00:04:48] Kristy Yee: [00:04:48] dog teams out there. Teen cat Christy. So we'll. No, I'm kind of glad I'm in the other room now, why

[00:04:58] I was in life and physically okay. Going back to the, getting this shit together. So yeah, like exactly what Andrew is saying. I'm following those societal norms and, and that's what it means to get your shit together, but That doesn't always give you, you know, what you want. And what we're hearing is that, you know what, fuck this, I'm going to move to right in the heart of the city.

[00:05:24] And I'm going to go pursue my dreams and be an actor and work really hard working at two restaurants. I'm going to save up a shit ton of money so I can do the thing that I want to do. Like that's dope. I appreciate 

[00:05:37] William Shaw: [00:05:37] that. 

[00:05:37] Kristy Yee: [00:05:37] Thank you. 

[00:05:38]William Shaw: [00:05:38] Thank you. 

[00:05:39] see, but now I have to figure out what's going to get me to coast because, you know, as I had mentioned before, I know you guys are both an interior I'm in America, so it will less, I don't have as many social safety nets going for me. So it's like, So how am I going to pay rent next month?

[00:05:53] Cool. So now that's the thing. Yeah, it's the boat that a lot of people is horrible as it is to sound. I don't mean it to come across that way. I take solace knowing that it's not just me. But all the same. That means there's a lot of people like me where we're just free falling. 

[00:06:13] Kristy Yee: [00:06:13] Yeah. It's like, it doesn't feel good to know that there's other people suffering in the world, but at the same time, you also feel like you're not alone.

[00:06:22] And that in itself, It feels comforting. So yeah, I feel you. I feel you. Okay. You mentioned, you mentioned codependency earlier. Can you tell us more about that? 

[00:06:33] William Shaw: [00:06:33] Ooh. See, that's it. That was a good, 

[00:06:36] Kristy Yee: [00:06:36] well, we just met you, but tell us about codependent. Tell us about your codependent. 

[00:06:42] William Shaw: [00:06:42] Righty. Well, I guess if we want to make that pivot towards mental health, let's fucking go.

[00:06:47] So, One of the things about me. It's a fun fact that, you know, Oh, I'll bring up casually, but it's not necessarily the gay type of stuff you bring up. I don't care though. it's 

[00:06:56] Kristy Yee: [00:06:56] not like, hi, nice to meet you. My name is well I'm codependent. Yeah. 

[00:07:01]William Shaw: [00:07:01] all I'm saying is if I throw that on my Tinder profile, I'm pretty sure I've never been checked with anyone ever 

[00:07:05] Kristy Yee: [00:07:05] again. I don't know. You never know vulnerability there. 

[00:07:09] William Shaw: [00:07:09] Yes. But at the same token too,  I mean, I'm already off the list of a lot of people.

[00:07:13] Cause I didn't even crack six foot. So, you know, 

[00:07:16] Kristy Yee: [00:07:16] is that the standard. Yeah, that's the, that's the stereotype. I know women want gender. I don't know what's going on that 

[00:07:23] William Shaw: [00:07:23] world. So you live under a rock is what I'm hearing. 

[00:07:26] Kristy Yee: [00:07:26] And we also live in Vancouver too, and BC, not Ontario, but Ontario, coastal people, 

[00:07:35] William Shaw: [00:07:35] you 

[00:07:35] Kristy Yee: [00:07:35] know, Ontario is not even on the coast there, Ontario, like Toronto is like, The penis of Canada fucking defense.

[00:07:47] the tip of Canada's penis and it's up America. 

[00:07:50] William Shaw: [00:07:50] It's it's peninsula. It's it's peanut. I got it. Fair enough. So my apologies, 

[00:07:55]Kristy Yee: [00:07:55] we're in Vancouver, we're on the West coast, so we're like three hours North of Seattle. So we're part of the Pacific Northwest Cascadia. So 

[00:08:04] William Shaw: [00:08:04] Cascadia, that sounds so nice on the tongue dropping terms, dropping terms.

[00:08:09] Well, I guess it should stop deflecting and get back to the codependency question. So, 

[00:08:13] Kristy Yee: [00:08:13] where to call yourself out. I love that. 

[00:08:15] William Shaw: [00:08:15] Yeah, no, you get it. You've got to have some amount of self-awareness. No worries. No worries. We've got to get this podcast going somewhere. So, One of the things that my upbringing has, unfortunately bestowed on me is some amount of depression, anxiety, codependency, codependency in out chill is basically, a struggle to be independent.

[00:08:35] And it can be at a lot of different varieties, whether it be physical. Emotional mental fiscal. It can be all of those things. It can be some of those things, it could be one of those things. Right. So the idea being when you're codependent, you're not relying on yourself. and you would rather rely on other people to kind of put you forward, but yeah.

[00:08:54] Kristy Yee: [00:08:54] Can you give an example? 

[00:08:56]William Shaw: [00:08:56] Ooh. Ooh. All right. let's see. I. Tend to be a type of person. I don't know if you could tell I'm very particular with my word choice and I'm very loud and I like to be a joker, right? So you put me in a social situation. The first thing that I'm trying to do, the moment I meet people is dope.

[00:09:15] Everyone here needs to be my friend right now immediately. I don't think I need to tell you guys that's not necessarily realistic and that's always going to happen. And if it does happen, it doesn't always go well for you. But that's one of those things. I would be the type of person where it's like, well, why does it, you know, like, why does it edgy?

[00:09:32] Like me? Why does she have to be a cat person? Okay, sorry. Christie is the cat person. I just realized that as I said it hard, if you could tell like Americans Ooh. Suffice to say, yeah, I'm that type of person where if you're not my friend, it's going to start beating me up and it's like, why aren't you, my friend, I'm going to try even harder.

[00:09:52] Come on. Just acknowledge me, give me that. And then it's, it can very quickly unless I cut myself off mentally it devolves, so to speak. 

[00:10:05] Kristy Yee: [00:10:05] Okay. I think I feel you there. Give us an example. 

[00:10:09] William Shaw: [00:10:09] Ooh, you want examples? 

[00:10:11] Kristy Yee: [00:10:11] Okay. So, okay, so here's what I'll give an example. Okay, cool. Christie, you go, sorry. So I have recently realized through these conversations I'm having with Angie and recording the podcast that I have social anxiety.

[00:10:26] That even though I love talking to people and, you know, I'm all like bubbly and happy. I'm still that person, but it makes me anxious to be like, okay, I need to, I need to get that person to like me, you know? And, and I think it's very natural to want to be liked. Like that's. A human nature, but when it comes, when it gets to be so like, I don't know, debilitating where it causes you stress.

[00:10:50] And you're like, Oh my gosh, you know, what, how, how do I present myself? Or what are the things that I need to say to get this person or these groups of people to like me. And then when they don't, we automatically think that it's something wrong. With me, at least I do. Right. 

[00:11:06] William Shaw: [00:11:06] And that's, that's codependency 

[00:11:08] Kristy Yee: [00:11:08] analyzing and I'm like, well, what the fuck is wrong with me?

[00:11:11] And then I start shaming myself, right? Like, Oh, I'm not cool enough. Like, I was a true loser. I'm mostly thinking about me as a high school student right now. I like to think that now I'm older, not so much. And I'm starting to not give a shit. As much, we still all give a shit, but you know, the high school Christy would be like, Oh my gosh, you know, what, why, why don't they like me?

[00:11:30] What is it like? I would never think that they're just different people that were just on different wavelengths. Like I would never have thought of that. Put all of the onus on me and the way I behave, leave. And then I would try to correct that the next time more people can like me, is that something.

[00:11:44] That I don't know at all I D relates to you identifies with you resonate. 

[00:11:48] William Shaw: [00:11:48] I mean, it kind of fits the bill on anxiety and to a degree to codependency, you know, just because you have codependent habits doesn't mean you can't break them. It's just like, it's that innate reaction where it's like, like me, like me so much, please.

[00:12:03] I just add that. It's like, okay. I wonder how I screwed that one up. Whoops. 

[00:12:08] Kristy Yee: [00:12:08] Yeah. 

[00:12:09] Okay. So. Well, we met you through Facebook because you had left us a beautiful comment. 

[00:12:16] William Shaw: [00:12:16] Yes, I do remember. 

[00:12:18] Kristy Yee: [00:12:18] And, so we had posted on this group called Asian creative network. Is that right?

[00:12:23] I think I've got that right. 

[00:12:24] William Shaw: [00:12:24] Pretty sure that's right. 

[00:12:25] Kristy Yee: [00:12:25] And that was when we were just about to launch or we just launched our podcast. So we're like, Hey world, this is, this is us. And you had left a comment and I'm just going to read the comment. Okay. 

[00:12:38] William Shaw: [00:12:38] Oh God, this is gonna be.

[00:12:42] Kristy Yee: [00:12:42] Nothing 

[00:12:45] William Shaw: [00:12:45] self conscious about these things 

[00:12:47] Kristy Yee: [00:12:47] will social anxiety looming over her. So this is how the friendship began. You wrote as someone who grew up in a biracial household with a nasty rubber band effect with my heritage, my Asian mother led to a lot of dot, dot, dot, interesting moments in my life.

[00:13:09] William Shaw: [00:13:09] This is true. 

[00:13:10] Kristy Yee: [00:13:10] And that's when we're like, Ooh, you see 

[00:13:14] William Shaw: [00:13:14] more? 

[00:13:15] Kristy Yee: [00:13:15] Tell us about your child. Ooh. What do you mean like that? My biggest question, like this person is a writer. 

[00:13:24] William Shaw: [00:13:24] Cause, you know, 

[00:13:25] Kristy Yee: [00:13:25] like, yeah. Like, Oh, rubber band, what does that mean? 

[00:13:33] William Shaw: [00:13:33] It's so my family dynamics, are not something I tend to bring up lightly just because it's one of those things where, you know, like when you have social interactions with people, you know, it's like, ah, my dad does this.

[00:13:45] My mom does that. I always tend to be quiet and reserved because. Growing up. And even to this day, to some degree, I have a very complicated family units and by complicated to cut through the bullshit, you know, My father was very stereotypical, Southern conservative, military type, 

[00:14:04] and for the longest time, my mother, she had actually heard her family had immigrated. To America, roughly about 67 67 ish give or take. So she turned seven years old on the plane ride, moving into the Chicago land area. Yeah. So, you know, my father, I've had family on that side of the family. That's been around since America was America 

[00:14:26] and for the longest time, my mother was very much, much, you know, and she very much assimilated to such a degree that. You know, I didn't have any type of Asian upbringing whatsoever. Right? My mother, she was Filipino. I don't know a lick of to garlic. I never once had a Filipino dish. The thing I knew was just eat rice with every meal.

[00:14:43] That's about the deepest exposure towards, you know, my Asian heritage that I got. And for the longest time, it was just like, well, dad said that, so, yeah. And the one thing she would always tell us, it's kind of like, yeah, your father, you know, I always told him, I wanted to teach you guys to Gallog.

[00:14:58] And the phrase that he used was, well, they're American. They're just going to speak English. So that was that. But after a while, must've been about when I was eight or nine years old, they divorced. And at that point, You know, mom became very focused on how do I support us? How do I support myself? And my two boys there's I have an older sister as well, but she's much older.

[00:15:20] So how do I support myself and my two sons? And in some ways it was interesting because. You saw certain traits that you find in Asian households, the controlling, everything, academics first, children subservient to their parents and absolute silence about all personal affairs. Like it just kicked into overdrive when there was that separation to such a degree that it was a very nasty whiplash, like as my brother and I were growing up.

[00:15:49] And especially when we got into our teenage years where you start to kind of cultivate your personality and who you are as a person. 

[00:15:57] Kristy Yee: [00:15:57] Do you think. All of that control from, from what it sounds like your mom was doing on, on you and your brother, do you think that's could be part of like a coping thing for her 

[00:16:09] William Shaw: [00:16:09] 120%?

[00:16:10] 120%. She was, honestly the older I get it's when I just recollect back towards, you know, interactions I had with her. She was someone that was very, you know, she was, she was damaged. Right. She, she never made it a secret that, when she grew up with my Lola, my grandmother, she was not necessarily the kindest of mothers.

[00:16:30]she put her and my aunt through the ringer, physically, mentally, and emotionally, unfortunately. And you know, it was one of those things that you could tell whenever she would talk about it, there was. There was just something about it that was unfinished. And even, even before she passed on, it was just one of those things where she just, she, she couldn't figure out how to navigate past it, if that makes sense.

[00:16:54] Right. And it's funny because so much of what you went through with her own mother, she in turn visited in some way or another with all of her own children, because it's what she knew, you know? 

[00:17:05] Kristy Yee: [00:17:05] Yep. You emulate what you've been modeled. Right. So even though she didn't have a great experience with her mother, that was how she knew how to be a mother.

[00:17:14] And so she did the same thing. 

[00:17:17] William Shaw: [00:17:17] 120% and that's, and that's the rub cause the one thing, right. I know I had mentioned it when I first started talking with you guys and it's, I guess that's the thing that's very, very difficult to say even now, not for me personally, but because I know how it comes across to people.

[00:17:35] When you say that. Yeah. It, my mother exerted such an unhealthy control over, you know, not just, you know, my life, but the lives of my siblings. That for me personally, when she did pass on a few years back as weird as it sounds, I just kind of felt my shoulders dropping away. They never have before the first time, just like I didn't have that weight on me anymore.

[00:17:56] Kristy Yee: [00:17:56] Hmm. Wow. What do you think that weight was all about? 

[00:18:02]William Shaw: [00:18:02] honestly, That's a multipronged question to answer. So I'm going to try to answer it to the best that I can. Well, You know, not making it a secret. She was an abusive mother for better or worse. she was very much the type of person where, you know, perfect example, we were not allowed to have romantic relationships.

[00:18:22] My brother confessed that he had a girlfriend at the age of 17 years old, and it was an eight hour lecture in one room that I had to be a part of. And by the end of it, my mother had covered every single topic of. You're going to get AIDS. She's going to get pregnant. You guys are going to get married.

[00:18:37] She is going to take you for everything that you're worth. You're going to have nothing. You need to break up with her now. 

[00:18:43] eight hours, eight hours. I remember. And the reason I will never forget was because that afternoon we went to go watch Spiderman three Raby one. And it's like, wow. You know, I don't know which was worse.

[00:19:03] Kristy Yee: [00:19:03] I don't know where that is. That's not where I had assumed that Joe could go. 

[00:19:07] William Shaw: [00:19:07] Yeah. It's where it was going. Not a great movie.

[00:19:10]Yeah. It's so, yeah, it's one of those things like for her personally, you know, like she, she saw that my brother was taking some amount of individuality, you know, for himself and his own personality. So when it came to me, because my brother had me about three or four years, you know, in my case it was, yeah, no, you're not even allowed to go outside unless you're with your brother, your period.

[00:19:30] Kristy Yee: [00:19:30] Wow. 

[00:19:31] William Shaw: [00:19:31] Yeah. I, my social life was by extension. By proxy, through my brother. I was not allowed to make my own friends. I was not allowed to go out on my own to do my own things or be my own person. 

[00:19:41] Kristy Yee: [00:19:41] Holy shit. So then, and I know this is super, like, I'm feeling all weird and uncomfortable, which is great because that's what we're about, but you're right.

[00:19:50] It's like, because I'm thinking, okay. Usually when a parent passes, like this is a very sad somber grieving thing, and that can still be right. Like, I, I just sure that still is because she's your mother. Yeah, but there's also, it sounds like from what you're saying, there's a little bit of, you know, relief, which might for some people feel taboo to say 

[00:20:14] William Shaw: [00:20:14] very much, so very much so just because, you know, What are the ways I tend to do it.

[00:20:18] I, I have a dark sense of humor and I will make, you know, dead mom jokes. Does it play with every audience? And I won't do that to you guys. 

[00:20:27] Kristy Yee: [00:20:27] No. What? I we've talked about some pretty dark shit on here. 

[00:20:31] William Shaw: [00:20:31] Oh, are you telling me, are you trying to tell me what you're comfortable 

[00:20:33] Kristy Yee: [00:20:33] with? 

[00:20:34] William Shaw: [00:20:34] Oh, see, here I am. I'm thinking about you guys, because I can tell you guys, it's like, man, this is heavy shit.

[00:20:39] What the fuck is this guy? And it's like, okay, I can tell it down a little bit. If you want me to go in, 

[00:20:45] Kristy Yee: [00:20:45] because the whole point of this podcast is to be uncomfortable and to confront those taboos. Right. And everybody has different opinions about different things and. I think what's most important for us in making this podcast is to, let's be open about these fucking uncomfortable taboo things, because nobody talks about it.

[00:21:04] We think about it. We feel it. Yeah. But we don't talk about it. So fuck it. Let's talk about it. Let's get there. 

[00:21:11] William Shaw: [00:21:11] Well, the, the opening line, I tend to say, and I already know how it's going to go. No, no, it's going to get really dark here. So whatever, like. For some reason parents come up or anything like that?

[00:21:28] The joke I'll always say is that my mom is dead and my dad is dead to me. Right. Or I'll do just like, I think I had an interaction with, like, I was at a, like a little house party with a bunch of friends and, you know, they're all talking about, Oh, my mom's doing this and my dad's doing that. And there were very legitimate complaints where it's like, yeah, that would suck.

[00:21:46] That happened. I thought I would bring some levity to the road of kind of like, yeah, guys just. Do what I do. Don't have parents.

[00:21:56] I got a few like shoppers 

[00:22:00] Kristy Yee: [00:22:00] now in every joke. There's a little bit of truth in it. 

[00:22:04] William Shaw: [00:22:04] Yeah. 

[00:22:05] Kristy Yee: [00:22:05] Your mom is not with us. So there's that part of the truth. but you also mentioned that your dad is dead to you. Yes. Is there truth in that. 

[00:22:15] William Shaw: [00:22:15] 120% I play it for laughs. But it's one of those things where it's, you know, the last time yeah.

[00:22:19] I had a conversation with my father. It, it went very, very poorly and yeah, it's one of those exciting things which absolutely triggered a great deal of my depression, anxiety, even more so than with my mom. So, yeah, it was one of those things. Cause legitimately I had my own father tell me, you know, like, you know, you're so mentally unstable, you'd never gonna be able to hold down a job, a career.

[00:22:39] You never gonna find the love of your life. You're never going to get a degree. You're never gonna be able to take care of yourself. And just basically you're never going to be a person so to speak. Yeah. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Reassuring. Just like, Hey thanks dad. You're great. Pretty cool. But yeah. That's where that comes from.

[00:22:58] So there is truth in the humor that I say is dark as it is. 

[00:23:03] Kristy Yee: [00:23:03] Yeah. How often do you talk with your dad or if you even at all 

[00:23:08] William Shaw: [00:23:08] last time, I would have talked with him. it's almost been pushing a decade. It would have been, I was 17 years old, I believe. July of 2011. Do you ever take 

[00:23:20] Kristy Yee: [00:23:20] yeah. Yeah, it's been awhile.

[00:23:22] William Shaw: [00:23:22] It's been a minute or two, but yeah, 

[00:23:25] Kristy Yee: [00:23:25] I just want to say that you are a very strong person. Will and I commend you for that 

[00:23:31] William Shaw: [00:23:31] Thank you. I appreciate it. It's yeah, it's one of those things where it doesn't make sense to just keep it in. You may as well talk about it, you know, if the shit sucks because bottling it in.

[00:23:42] It's what we're taught to do growing up. it Doesn't help us. It makes us worse for it. 

[00:23:47] 

[00:23:52]

[00:23:52] Kristy Yee: [00:23:52] And people judge you for airing your dirty laundry. I mean, I've been judged a lot for airing, my dirty laundry. People say that I'm seeking validation or that I'm looking for attention. And you know, what, if it can make my pain a little bit less, maybe it is a very selfish thing, but sometimes when you air that out, it just, it makes your, I dunno, it makes your own.

[00:24:13]Room a little less smelly. 

[00:24:16] William Shaw: [00:24:16] Yeah.

[00:24:18]Kristy Yee: [00:24:18] yeah, like you, you air that shit out a little bit, so they instincts a little less than your own home. I mean, fuck it. And the way I see it, and maybe this is like, I don't know. It's silly. See, this is me judging myself. Now that was bad. We don't do 

[00:24:34] William Shaw: [00:24:34] that.

[00:24:38] you Christie. 

[00:24:41] Kristy Yee: [00:24:41] I see it is, you know, what, if we're, if airing out your dirty laundry is part of your self care. I feel like at the end of the day, no matter what we do, what we say, how we behave, as long as we don't hurt people, then it's okay. Just because you don't get that joke or you don't find that funny.

[00:24:58] That's fine. You're just not my person or you're not my people. You don't like to see me post all of this shit and like, talk about all this uncomfortable things. Right then that's totally fine too. Like you don't, you don't have to listen. You're just. You're also not my person, but there's going to be people who will be my person.

[00:25:17] Right. and at the end of the day, if whatever, I'm doing my laundry, as long as I'm not slapping my dirty underwear at other people's faces and causing harm, you know, 

[00:25:26] William Shaw: [00:25:26] I guess so people pay for that.

[00:25:35] No for real girl, like you could just, you could sell that. 

[00:25:39] Kristy Yee: [00:25:39] We need to pay for our software subscription. Somehow. Christie, 

[00:25:43] William Shaw: [00:25:43] she, you gotta be fiscally responsible, 

[00:25:47] Kristy Yee: [00:25:47] independent. We are looking for sponsors. Anybody who wants Christy and I, I don't know. I'm not going to finish this sentence. But, you know what I mean?

[00:25:58] Right. Like here's what the other person's laundry is. Who cares if I'm airing my laundry, it's helpful for me. If it helps you. That's great. If it doesn't, who cares, walk away, move on. Just, just don't throw your shit at us, other people and like, you know, make it their responsibility. Then that's when it causes harm.

[00:26:15] William Shaw: [00:26:15] That's the tricky thing to figure out because when you kind of grew up and the way, you know, in certain regards, obviously all of our childhoods are very different and the emotional experiences and the negative things that we've gone through has been vastly different obviously. But yeah, it's one of those things.

[00:26:30] It's all right. To talk to people about it. It's sure get that validation. Everyone needs it, but the moment that you. I don't want to say inconvenience. I don't think that's the right word, but the moment that you put it on other people and the moment that it becomes, well, then you just don't care about me.

[00:26:46] Or you start to air your own baggage in a way that hurts other people. That's what it becomes a problem. And it's finding that balance because sometimes when you're kind of, you know, in my case you have a severe case of arrested development, you don't know what's good, what's bad. So you just have to kind of, you know, fuck around and find out so to speak.

[00:27:08] Exactly arrested development. Yeah. You know what that phrase means that. 

[00:27:13]Kristy Yee: [00:27:13] And what does it mean exactly 

[00:27:14] William Shaw: [00:27:14] yes. For all of you ignorant plebes that are listening to the three of us who were very smart. in a matter of speaking it's when you're mentally or emotionally locked in such a way that, you know, Perhaps in your development, like maybe you have the emotional capacity of an 11 year old as an example, right?

[00:27:34] Maybe it doesn't have to be that explicit, but maybe emotionally you haven't matured for where you are supposed to be in life or mentally for where you're supposed to be in life, so to speak. and that in a nutshell is the rest of development. And that's also why the show, the show is named that because everyone is stuck in arrested development.

[00:27:51]Kristy Yee: [00:27:51] I remember there was like a million season. I watched all of them. There's four seasons. Wait, 

[00:27:58] William Shaw: [00:27:58] wasn't there a fifth one. Netflix did it. Cause they did a fourth. Netflix. 

[00:28:02] Kristy Yee: [00:28:02] I heard it was garbage, so I didn't, I didn't go our bedroom. There's only four real seasons. 

[00:28:07] William Shaw: [00:28:07] Fair, fair. It's it's an amazing show before it got it got canceled.

[00:28:12] Kristy Yee: [00:28:12] Yeah. 

[00:28:14] William Shaw: [00:28:14] But yeah, so that was that rested development. That's that's that was me for a very long time. 

[00:28:20]Kristy Yee: [00:28:20] Wow. I mean, I think I'm still there. I think I'm still in my rest of development stage. So I'm happy for you that you have moved. Oh, 

[00:28:32]William Shaw: [00:28:32] You're giving me too much credit right there. And I see you pick out past my shit.

[00:28:36] I want to say first off. Thank you. Yes, please give me more of that external validation that I so crave second off. Nah, 

[00:28:45] Kristy Yee: [00:28:45] me, we're all kind of. stuck somewhere right until, no, I need to stop before I get more philosophical again. Don't 

[00:28:52] William Shaw: [00:28:52] get philosophical girl. 

[00:28:54] Kristy Yee: [00:28:54] No, normally, normally look at Christie and we'll make some sort of eye contact and that's how we like bounce off each other.

[00:29:01] But when I'm looking at Christie right now, like, I can't see the sparkle in her eyes. Oh, Christie. No. Oh my God. You guys are cat haters. So the sparkle 

[00:29:12] William Shaw: [00:29:12] is dying. 

[00:29:14] Kristy Yee: [00:29:14] My soul. 

[00:29:15]William Shaw: [00:29:15] I mean, dogs are just loving. We did a get the love that we needed growing up. So we seek dogs to give it to us. 

[00:29:22] Kristy Yee: [00:29:22] So. Wow. 

[00:29:23] William Shaw: [00:29:23] Yes. Yes. Also too.

[00:29:26] They're just loyal companions. They're members of the family unit. Whereas cats is kind of like, fuck you. 

[00:29:31] Kristy Yee: [00:29:31] Why I love them. It's like, that's why I've so much respect for cats because they just don't give a fuck about, you know, they just walk around with their tails up pants. That's what the cat, Oh my God.

[00:29:42] Is that why they call it the catwalk? Yes. Whew.

[00:29:49] William Shaw: [00:29:49] God, this is so precious. 

[00:29:52] Kristy Yee: [00:29:52] I literally just thought about how, you know, they do like the one Paul, you know, this people can't keep people can't see us, but I can't see what you're doing. 

[00:30:00] William Shaw: [00:30:00] She is, she is vibing cat paws going, forwarded a very sophisticated batter with the shoulders. 

[00:30:09]Kristy Yee: [00:30:09] You know how cats walk and then I just put the two together anyways, my mind.

[00:30:13] William Shaw: [00:30:13] It's okay. Do we need to give you a second to kind of figure it 

[00:30:16] Kristy Yee: [00:30:16] out? I might want to take the whole evening to just collect myself, but we got it. We got to keep plowing through the show. Must go on. 

[00:30:23] William Shaw: [00:30:23] That's true. I mean, it depends on what you guys want to talk about next because I'm talking a lot. 

[00:30:28] Kristy Yee: [00:30:28] Okay.

[00:30:28], I wanted to ask you with, it sounds like the, the relationship that you've had with your mom and the relationship that you had with your dad, both very complicated, and both very separate. And I'm curious to know, cause you mentioned depression, anxiety, where do you think that those two intersected and like if it did, when did that happen in your 

[00:30:52] William Shaw: [00:30:52] life?

[00:30:53] I would say, Hmm, I think to some degree, You know, I always grew up with, I don't want to say a chip on my shoulder, but just a very heavy weight on my shoulder. Cause you know, some of my earliest memories were the very dysfunctional marriage that occurred between my mother and my father. It was, it was an abusive one to be honest.

[00:31:11] And what I found out later in life was that both of them did very awful things to the other, which. Would be deal breakers in any healthy relationship, but because, you know, we grew up in Florida, you know, we grew up in the South, so to speak for America, which is very known to be deeply religious. It's all about the family units.

[00:31:30] Everyone sticks together, no matter what, no matter how bad things get the thing that I'm, you know, You know, basically, my father was, you know, he got very, very busy. He didn't have the words for my mom. So he started to use his hands. And in the case of my mother, she, she never was the most. Mentally or emotionally mature person in certain regards and finances were one of them.

[00:31:52]one of the things I had found out later in life, cause, my parents met through the army, right? They were both stationed down in Georgia. And my father retired as a full bird Lieutenant Colonel, which you know, for the layman, basically my father retired at the height of his career and if he had decided he wanted to continue forward, he would have become a general.

[00:32:11] He had a lot of, you know, he was a huge part of in 90, 91, on a desert shield, desert storm when America was over in the middle East. And he was in command of hundreds, thousands of us soldiers. And when he came home, our family was destitute because our mother spent every single penny. He had no retirement.

[00:32:31] He had no nothing. He had to go from being the man that leads his troops to a seven 11 clerk. Fuck. Yeah. 

[00:32:43] Kristy Yee: [00:32:43] And, and, and I'm, Ooh, and I must, I'm gonna make an assumption for someone who is so high ranking, he must be very proud of his, his role. Right. And, and that must have felt just total shit. 

[00:32:58] William Shaw: [00:32:58] Yeah. 120%. And it's one of those things where the more I tend to learn about either of my parents, because, you know, in the case of my sister, And her family, they're still, they're still in contact.

[00:33:10] They still see each other pretty regularly. Like, you know, that hurt isn't the same as it was for me. you know, So in that regard, like the more I learn about him through her, it's like, yeah, I understand why he is the way he is. And then when it comes to my mom, when I talk, you know, with, especially with, you know, my aunts, her sister, and just get to know certain things about, you know, what it was like growing up, it makes sense too.

[00:33:30] And it's one of those difficult things when you're in the, you know, in the macro sense, when you see the big picture, when you see what is pushing everyone to move in the way that they do and how they hurt each other in that way, it's difficult to kind of put that, you know, to process that, so to speak.

[00:33:49]And that's the, but that's the tricky thing because, you know, the thing I, I remember hearing and I don't remember who I heard it from. and it's something I hold myself to with the baggage that I carry it's, you know, especially when it comes to like your history, you know, your past explains your, like why you did what you did, but it doesn't excuse it.

[00:34:11] Kristy Yee: [00:34:11] 120%. 

[00:34:13] William Shaw: [00:34:13] Yeah. Yeah. And that's the tricky thing. And that's the tricky thing. Cause it's like, you know, when my parents have messed up, it's like, I understand why they messed up. I like they're human. It doesn't mean, you know, like I think it's okay or that I think it's, you know, Worth my time to try to reinvest in those relationships.

[00:34:30]You know, in the case of me where I've definitely fucked up a few times going up and having to figure things out because mom and dad never showed me. You know, it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, I understand why you made those mistakes. But at the same token, it doesn't mean I didn't hurt someone along the way.

[00:34:44] Kristy Yee: [00:34:44] Yeah. What are your thoughts on forgiveness? Ooh, good question. Dan, my cohost, everybody 

[00:34:57] William Shaw: [00:34:57] Christy covered here with these fucking like, like these fucking secrets. Yeah, I know. And here's the thing, right? Like they're all really good questions where it's like, well, shit. Okay. I guess I have to answer this. Now.

[00:35:11] Kristy Yee: [00:35:11] There you go. You said yes. 

[00:35:12] William Shaw: [00:35:12] I did say yes. And what I would say, and again, this is something that runs very contrary to the way I was raised. Very Roman Catholic. You have to forgive everyone. I think. Forgiveness is up to the person. And I think it really depends on what has happened, you know, in the case of me and my parents, the thing that I've come to realize with the, both of them, from what I've heard, either through the grapevine or, you know, when I was there with my mom, you know, before she passed on, they, they could never speak to the things that they did wrong.

[00:35:48] And that that's the thing I would say more than anything that, you know, when I talk about them and it's somber, I think that's the thing that gets me the most. It's it, isn't just, you did this thing wrong, but it's either you refuse to acknowledge that you did something wrong or you're completely ignorant of what you have done wrong.

[00:36:09] And in either case everything you say, because of that, like it's. It doesn't, it's not real. It doesn't feel like you genuinely mean it. So, yeah, like in my case with my parents, it's one of those tricky things where to some degree, I don't think I will ever have forgiveness for them or either of them. you know, they did a lot of things to tear our family apart and they did everything wrong that they were supposed to do in a family and every chance that they had to make it right.

[00:36:37] Because my mother had many years to get it right. And my father, Yeah. Like my father, I separated from him for about a decade or so in my youth, you know? And then I got back in touch with him and he had quite a while to, you know, own to the things that he had did wrong. And all he did was double down on what he had done wrong.

[00:36:54] So in that case, why do they deserve forgiveness?

[00:36:58]Kristy Yee: [00:36:58] Wow. So when you were describing how, you know, if they either they're ignorant or they're too proud to admit. Right. It's either of those. And for me, my dad too proud too. And then he passed away my mom, I think she's still around. She, I think she's too ignorant to understand. So when they don't go into the root cause, cause then whatever apology, whatever they say, whatever it is, it just, it doesn't feel real because, because they didn't get down to the root of things.

[00:37:34] Yeah. I totally feel that. I totally feel that. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:37:37] William Shaw: [00:37:37] It's and I'm sorry, you had to deal with that too. Cause it's, it's, it's a shitty thing because to some degree, Like, you know, and I think this is one of the, the biggest root causes for a lot of, you know, I have, because I'm good at playing confident, but I have extreme self confidence issues.

[00:37:55] I think the thing that matters with me the most is, you know, like why couldn't my parents just tell me the truth? Why couldn't they just be real with me? Why couldn't fade? Just be a human being with me? What did I do to, you know, what did I do wrong? 

[00:38:13]Kristy Yee: [00:38:13] but it's not what you did wrong. Yeah. 

[00:38:15] William Shaw: [00:38:15] And there's the catch and there's the catch, but yeah.

[00:38:21]You know, 

[00:38:21] Kristy Yee: [00:38:21] why is this so hard for our parents? To be honest with us, 

[00:38:25]William Shaw: [00:38:25] I've got some ideas. I used to teach kids a lot in the martial arts school. And I interacted with a lot of parents and I realized a lot of parents have no idea what the fuck they're doing at all. They're winging it. 

[00:38:36] Kristy Yee: [00:38:36] Here's a question. Do you guys want kids?

[00:38:39] Oh, no, 

[00:38:42] William Shaw: [00:38:42] don't, I don't blame you on that Chrissy I'm I I'm torn on it. Cause it's like on the one hand it's, you know the idea cause I, I have a, I love kids wouldn't have taught martial arts. I wouldn't have been in education for about six plus years. If I didn't love kids to some master degree, I love kids, but at the same token too.

[00:39:03] I guess, you know, like the traumas of my past it's, it's one of those double edged swords where it's like, I know I would do better than my parents. I know I would, but also to what fucked up thing am I going to pass on to them that I might not realize it'd be cognizant of. And then that's not even getting into like the, the geopolitical, like the world is birding and everything's going horrible.

[00:39:24] The next 30 years, we're all gonna die. That's the other part of it. 

[00:39:29] Kristy Yee: [00:39:29] I have another question for you too. Do you guys think that your parents did a better job than their parents?

[00:39:38]William Shaw: [00:39:38] Whew. I would say no, I would say that's an interesting question. Just because my father's side, I don't know as much. I mean, arguably no, because my father and everyone generation, cause he's the oldest of nine children. I think if I'm research, they're all doing pretty all right for themselves, except for my one ones who had, you know, Claims of rape within the family, but that's never talked about because Christian people, family sticks together.

[00:40:07]on my mother's side, my Lola uprooted, both of her children. I'm from the Philippines to America without ever talking with my own grandfather, my Lolo about it. She literally just up and left since, and he found out, and my father, my grandfather was very affluent man in the Philippines, but he had to just lose everything, leave his entire family behind just so we had a chance to be with his daughters.

[00:40:33] Kristy Yee: [00:40:33] Wow. 

[00:40:34] William Shaw: [00:40:34] Yeah. And it's kind of like, Oh, so the fucker re is just a normal thing in both sides. This is cool.

[00:40:48] Kristy Yee: [00:40:48] Is in every family though. 

[00:40:49]William Shaw: [00:40:49] Yeah, I think so two 

[00:40:51] Kristy Yee: [00:40:51] degrees I'm sure. Right. And, and in different contexts. Yeah. But I think that's just part of being in a family, like. Being in a relationship with other human beings. There's so much fuckery in that. And, I, I'm just trying to imagine your grandma, Lola, just picking up her bags and like, come on kids, like we're piecing out and then.

[00:41:18] And then, and then your grandpa finding out about it and was like, Oh shit. Okay. Well now I gotta pick up my shit too and follow along, 

[00:41:27] William Shaw: [00:41:27] you know, why 

[00:41:28] Kristy Yee: [00:41:28] your Lola chose to move? Well, 

[00:41:31]William Shaw: [00:41:31] she's a very talkative and very strongly opinionated woman, very opinionated, very opinionated. Very. Okay. 

[00:41:39] Kristy Yee: [00:41:39] I love that. 

[00:41:42]William Shaw: [00:41:42] It's always interesting when you start getting into politics with her or social politics, anyways, that's a topic potentially for later.

[00:41:42] Okay. The other episode. So I hear, but. Yeah. It's, you know, she, the way that she described it to put it, you know, succinctly my, my grandfather was, you know, very much a family person. Like he talked with his parents about everything and they were a part of everything. It was a very tight knit unit.

[00:41:56] Whereas my grandmother did not come from one. She had to figure it out on her own. and. It came to a point by her words. My Lola's words that anytime something came up in the relationship and the marriage where they needed to figure something out together. There was always a third person who would always come in and give her opinions, which was my great grandmother, my 

[00:42:18] Kristy Yee: [00:42:18] grandfather, her mother-in-law.

[00:42:21] William Shaw: [00:42:21] Yeah, basically. Yeah. And then mother-in-law basically became the third rail of the marriage, which is never a good thing. 

[00:42:28] Kristy Yee: [00:42:28] Yup. That's so common. 

[00:42:31] William Shaw: [00:42:31] It is. Yeah, right. Ooh, I don't know. Does that, is that something that you guys are familiar with in some form or another? 

[00:42:40] Kristy Yee: [00:42:40] Yeah. yeah, I mean, I talk about this with some of my closer friends.

[00:42:45]my paternal grandmother, I mean, I don't see her. I don't really have a relationship with her anymore because when I moved to Canada, those relationships where, you know, Gone essentially. and, but being away from her was kind of like a relief because she was abusive. but you know, not in the sense that it was anything different from what was acceptable in China at the 

[00:43:09] William Shaw: [00:43:09] time.

[00:43:10] Yeah. 

[00:43:11]Kristy Yee: [00:43:11] but nobody else in my family ever really treated me that way. and then also coming to Canada and seeing how other people are with their grandma and all the, you know, stereotypes on TV where grandma bakes and makes food and make sure you're like, you know, all that stuff where she was trying to be more of a mother to me because she never believed my own mom to be ever good enough for my dad.

[00:43:36] Yeah. She also abused my dad. Like, 

[00:43:39] William Shaw: [00:43:39] so 

[00:43:40] Kristy Yee: [00:43:40] I'm like, so for her, like for her, so she's one of those people. So there's, there's this like weird taboo notion that you have to love someone just because they're your family, 

[00:43:50] William Shaw: [00:43:50] right? Like, 

[00:43:51] Kristy Yee: [00:43:51] that's right. Like what you mentioned, like when you were talking about your mother, I'm.

[00:43:56]You know, both my parents are in my life and I'm working on that relationship with them, mostly with my mom. she was able to, to kind of integrate herself into Western society. She, you know, didn't go back to engineering. After we moved to Canada, she decided to become a daycare teacher, like a preschool teacher instead.

[00:44:13] And because of that, she learned a lot of these Western, Methods of, of raising children, because the Ashley kind of applies that to her real life. Right. Which would be me. but with my dad, I don't really have a relationship with him because he takes on that stereotyped, Asian father of just providing, just being like, I'm just here to support you guys economically.

[00:44:35] William Shaw: [00:44:35] Yeah. 

[00:44:36] Kristy Yee: [00:44:36] And, so for me, the, the family member that I have a lot of friction with would be my paternal grandmother, which is my nine nigh because, you know, she used to hit me. She said a lot of mean things about me and about my mother. She kidnapped me. Oh,

[00:44:58] Oh man. So, I mean, this episode is about well, but basically, 

[00:45:02] William Shaw: [00:45:02] Oh, it's all about, it's about all of us, all of our struggles 

[00:45:06] Kristy Yee: [00:45:06] circle, 

[00:45:07] William Shaw: [00:45:07] but 

[00:45:08] Kristy Yee: [00:45:08] yeah, I guess I never really allowed myself to really think about that relationship with my grandma to a deep extent. So when you were talking about your relationship with your mom, I just, I felt this very deep aching pain in my heart.

[00:45:23] And I wasn't quite sure what it was. I don't know if you saw it, but I had to put my hand on my heart for it. 

[00:45:27] William Shaw: [00:45:27] I did notice that I did clock that 

[00:45:30] Kristy Yee: [00:45:30] and I, I think I was just like, it was like the onset of a panic attack and I just had to kind of calm it down. So as much ruined this podcast. 

[00:45:38] William Shaw: [00:45:38] It's okay. It's all right.

[00:45:40] It's all, it's all normal. 

[00:45:43] Kristy Yee: [00:45:43] It's all we laugh, our anxiety with. 

[00:45:49] William Shaw: [00:45:49] Oh, I made it's one of the best ways to get it rounded, 

[00:45:51] Kristy Yee: [00:45:51] right? Yeah. But wow. I just kept saying, wow, because I just. Like for, for me, like that physical boundary has been established with my grandmother because we no longer live in the same country.

[00:46:06] I rarely see her. I've never talked to her. and for me, it's just kind of like a distant past. And at some point in my life, I had grieved that the fact that my grandparents, even the ones I absolutely adore are no longer in my life, even though they are alive. But this notion that. It's okay. To be relieved that someone talks it is no longer in your life, even if they are blessed.

[00:46:30] William Shaw: [00:46:30] Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:46:31] Kristy Yee: [00:46:31] And that just made me go like it's okay. And I'm sure a lot of people there have, like, I've heard lots of stories of people out there who have cut off ties with their parents or with a sibling or with a relative of some sort, because of those issues. Right. And yeah. And in, in a lot of, you know, and a lot of religious culture, like  the culture that you're from will, and the culture that Christian are from, like the Chinese culture and a lot of very traditional cultures.

[00:47:02]you're not allowed to, you're not allowed to do that. You're not allowed to cut family out. No. Because the whole point of having a clan, having a family. So you don't get picked off by a saber tooth tiger. And yeah, you're not allowed to do that, but it's a very Western notion that individuality matters.

[00:47:20] William Shaw: [00:47:20] It's true. It's you know, it's funny, one of the things that I always, that I'm reminded of, so. It's it's, it's a Japanese saying, but it applies so well to just all Asian culture as a whole, the community versus the individuality. and the, the phrase is the loose nail will be hammered in.

[00:47:43]If you stand out, you're going to be made to fall in line. 

[00:47:50] Kristy Yee: [00:47:50] Oh gosh. Yeah. That's, that's very, that's very, East Asian culture Confucianism. I mean, Christina and I say, fuck Confucius all the fucking time. Mostly me, mostly me, but like, you know, 

[00:48:06] William Shaw: [00:48:06] yeah. I don't even read good. I dunno. 

[00:48:08] Kristy Yee: [00:48:08] It was, he was a very troubled man.

[00:48:11]

[00:48:11] William Shaw: [00:48:11] but there's a lot of Asian people are, 

[00:48:14] Kristy Yee: [00:48:14] a lot of history is written by troubled men.

[00:48:20] William Shaw: [00:48:20] No, I'm a hundred percent for it. All right. Look, I'm not gonna lie. yeah. Fuck patriarchy. You know, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I do. I deserve to call the shots cause I got a penis, probably not.  

[00:48:32] Kristy Yee: [00:48:47] You are coming back on this show for 

[00:48:47] William Shaw: [00:48:47] another episode. I hope so. I fucking hope so, but I guess if we want to do something, cause I think a lot of this episode's been about family and familial ties and the difficulties of that one, the one thing.

[00:48:53]I'm sure you guys have heard of the saying blood is thicker than water. so that's not a, that's not the full saying and that we we've completely got the opposite meaning of it. 

[00:49:03] Kristy Yee: [00:49:03] Ooh. Do you tell her, 

[00:49:06] William Shaw: [00:49:06] so blood is thicker than water is an old Arabic saying, but don't tell that to a lot of white religious folk, cause that might not go over well.

[00:49:14] Kristy Yee: [00:49:14] I will do that. Thank you, 

[00:49:16] William Shaw: [00:49:16] please do. But th th the full phrase, the full Arabic phrase is. A lot of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb initially. Yeah.

[00:49:30] Yeah. The bonds, I mean, initially it was meant to be like your blood brothers had more than me, like deepest things, but I mean, these days, like the bonds you make be more than what you were given, the bonds you choose to hold on to. 

[00:49:45] Kristy Yee: [00:49:45] Wow. Wow. Why is this fun? Old people are like not old people as in like age old, but like ancient people are wise as fuck.

[00:49:54] William Shaw: [00:49:54] Yeah. Yeah. Some of them are, 

[00:49:57] Kristy Yee: [00:49:57] and then sometimes you can choose, right. There's always diversity 

[00:50:04] William Shaw: [00:50:04] at the time where mercury Drake was thought to bring about longevity. 

[00:50:08] Kristy Yee: [00:50:08] Wow. I have no idea, but he was, he was like, he was the product of a 70 something year old man and a 16 year old. Girl, because the man was trying to have a son before he died.

[00:50:18] And he basically raped a 16 year old woman. And then he was born with a lot of deformities and he was never able to marry, or like, I don't know, he ended up alone dying alone and he was apparently very ugly and he like, just made it his life's journey too. I don't know, change the world, fuck up other people.

[00:50:40] Cause he fucked up. I don't fucking know. 

[00:50:42] William Shaw: [00:50:42] Anyway, he's a, he's a shittier version of quasi Modo. That's what I'm picking up on. 

[00:50:47] Kristy Yee: [00:50:47] Yeah, sure. I'm not familiar with 

[00:50:49] William Shaw: [00:50:49] quantity. 

[00:50:51] Kristy Yee: [00:50:51] Yes. Cause you wrote in your favorite song.

[00:50:59] William Shaw: [00:50:59] Oh my God. See, now we would have a few points check out of the boat. You a little bit.

[00:51:07] Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. But now one of my favorite songs, one of my favorite musical songs that's been really stuck in my 

[00:51:12] Kristy Yee: [00:51:12] head was really not expecting that to come up. 

[00:51:16] William Shaw: [00:51:16] It's I would say for anyone. Yeah. It's I'm sorry. I interrupted. You did not. Please, please, please finish your thought. I'm sorry 

[00:51:24] Kristy Yee: [00:51:24] about the patriarchy.

[00:51:26] William Shaw: [00:51:26] I don't mean to I'm sorry. I bet. Splayed podcasts to you, please.

[00:51:34]Kristy Yee: [00:51:34] Good catch though. Good catch. 

[00:51:37] William Shaw: [00:51:37] Please finish your thought

[00:51:39]Kristy Yee: [00:51:39] Christie. Wait me. Yeah. You wait, what was I saying? 

[00:51:43] William Shaw: [00:51:43] Christie? You were saying it was definitely Christie because you had noticed that I put it down, out there by the hunchback is one of my favorite songs. You were starting to say something and then I interrupted you because I'm a 

[00:51:53] Kristy Yee: [00:51:53] man. Well, she was Christy, like what's so wide.

[00:51:58] I like. Go on Angie. And I'm like, what are you doing? We're talking, 

[00:52:04] William Shaw: [00:52:04] Oh 

[00:52:04] Kristy Yee: [00:52:04] my gosh, this is going to be so much stylist. Edit it out. Pick up these cues. 

[00:52:09] William Shaw: [00:52:09] Yeah, no, it's gotta be grid. Just say it's my fault. Fuck the patriarchy. And we can move on. 

[00:52:16] Kristy Yee: [00:52:16] You totally thought. Well, you were referring to how Andrew was talking about Confucius and then we just started to go off and start to talk about quasi Modo and then we're like, Oh shit.

[00:52:28] You're right. You're right. Let's go back to Angie. 

[00:52:31] William Shaw: [00:52:31] No, 

[00:52:32] Kristy Yee: [00:52:32] no, these are, I mean, we'll, we'll just met me. He already kind of understands that sometimes I just say random shit, but I really like, I need you guys to reel to reel it back to the conversation we were having. 

[00:52:44] William Shaw: [00:52:44] We need to reel it back to, to out there.

[00:52:46] Cause you had mentioned, you saw that and you were calling edgy because you knew, but no, like, yeah. one of the questions, I guess, to give context is that you guys asked me one of my favorite songs and one of my favorite songs is actually I'm out there by the hunchback of Notre DME. If you guys have seen the movie back in the nineties, you know, Disney version 

[00:53:04] Kristy Yee: [00:53:04] version. Okay.

[00:53:05] Thank you. 

[00:53:05] William Shaw: [00:53:05] Yes. Yes. Definitely 

[00:53:07] Kristy Yee: [00:53:07] version that I know of. 

[00:53:08] William Shaw: [00:53:08] Same, same. Okay. Say long story short though. pretty much, you know, out there is the song where you first are introduced to quasi Modo and yet the first time as an adult and you kind of have for all it, like, Hey, quasi, stop going outside. Don't don't do that outside thing.

[00:53:23] Don't be your own person. Stay locked here, you know, have a life and quasi Moto. Is basically just, you know, because he's stuck in the bell tower and he's all by himself. The entire point of the song is because, you know, the reason for Arlo calls him out as he comes visits, realize he has an entire, model like miniature model of all of Paris.

[00:53:44] And he sees all the people in the figures and he basically was like, stop having these stupid dreams, stop thinking that you can be a normal person and. Basically quasi Modo after Frodo leaves basically just sings how he just wished like all he ever wants in life is just to spend one day with people one day with everyone else in the world.

[00:54:03] And to just be a part of them to be with them, to be among them just one day. That's it. Oh, no, 

[00:54:11] Kristy Yee: [00:54:11] I got to go and watch the movie. 

[00:54:13] William Shaw: [00:54:13] You did do the movie, get to need to watch the movie. And it's a very beautiful song. 

[00:54:17] Kristy Yee: [00:54:17] It's a very underrated movie. Is it close at all to the original? 

[00:54:22] William Shaw: [00:54:22] Oh, no. Oh no. So 

[00:54:24] Kristy Yee: [00:54:24] Disney, Disney will gloss CFI like gloss.

[00:54:30]

[00:54:30] William Shaw: [00:54:30] I'm not 

[00:54:30] Kristy Yee: [00:54:30] a writer, 

[00:54:32] William Shaw: [00:54:32] so I have not read the novel, but I'm familiar with how it goes. the spoilers for the novel, that is several centuries old, Frodo. Gets Esmeralda onto the Pyre to burn her at the stake for being a witch that actually happens. Unlike the Disney version, she dies, Phoebe, a captain that fell in love in the movie.

[00:54:52] Yeah. He's the one that did that lighting. So Phoebus was a pretty much a Dick hole and, you know, Throttle lives to long prosperous life. And the end of the book is quasi Moda going into the Crips, the catacombs where all of the skeletons were, are thrown because those exist underneath Paris, the catacombs finding as Marella to his body, cuddling with it until he dies.

[00:55:14] Kristy Yee: [00:55:14] Damn. That's generally how the real story is. I think there was rape in there too. 

[00:55:18] William Shaw: [00:55:18] Probably. I wouldn't be surprised that the past few centuries were pretty weird, man. Different things were okay because patriarchy, 

[00:55:27]Kristy Yee: [00:55:27] we're going to have to need a lot of content warning for this episode. 

[00:55:31] William Shaw: [00:55:31] I'm sorry. I brought it up to a PG 30.

[00:55:34] Did I drop too many fucks? No, no, 

[00:55:37] Kristy Yee: [00:55:37] there's too many fucks. 

[00:55:41]William Shaw: [00:55:41] Fair enough. Good to know. I'll remember that next time, but definitely cuts of warnings. 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] Would you say hunchback is one of your favorite Disney movies then? 

[00:55:41]William Shaw: [00:55:41] I wouldn't say it's my favorite, but it has, see it's, it's a, it's a nuanced opinion. I wouldn't say it's my favorite, but it has some of my favorite songs and all of the Disney, you know, discography, so to speak.

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] Okay. Give me another Disney movie that you love. First one that comes to mind. Cause usually that means something 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] hero six big hero six. 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] Okay. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] That's great. One forgets about, I forget 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] it's Disney. Are you sure? 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] It's Disney and it's not even Pixar, even though it's CGI animated. It's not a Pixar one. It's a hundred percent Disney baby.

[00:55:41] I'm technically a Marvel property. 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] Oh, I didn't know that 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] big hero six was a pretty, like, not well known comic series for Marvel. So Disney got the rights when they bought Marvel, but they basically just, they kept the name and just scrapped everything else. Yeah, but I mean, amazing fucking movie. And first off Asian protagonist, I love that second off.

[00:55:41]Baymax. Absolutely wonderful. Third of all, it deals with depression, the loss of a loved one and the shit that you go through. Go through that shit. Also, I've been told that the older brother of hero by all the ladies Tadashi is just to die for. 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] He is to die for. He is. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] I've got to take you guys into your work.

[00:55:41] I'll take you all at your word for that. Unfortunately, I'm a very heterosexual men. So cisgendered heterosexual, man. I tell, you know, I'm very prejudiced. I got to let you know. All right. 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] And that, that movie, that movie made me cry multiple times. Granted, I cry easily cause I get very emotionally attached with characters, but that one made me cry multiple times, you know?

[00:55:41] So it's like, Ooh, that's like in the school setting or like every time you watch it, Like in different parts of the movie is what I mean. Yeah. Because every time, every time I watched Kung Fu Panda two, and which is five times I've cried. At the same scene, every single fucking time. And then every time I watch it, the first time I watched, I was by myself, bawled my eyes out.

[00:55:41] Second time I watched it, I watched it with friends. I'm like, you guys are about to bawl your eyes out. They sat through the whole scene, silent. They look over at me, I'm bald, I'm a mess. And then all the other times I always watched somebody and nobody else cried. Do you guys have a movie like that? Where like, no matter how many times you watch it, you will cry.

[00:55:41] All people make me cry. So anytime that there's like physically do down and like 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] punch you, 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] I'm sorry, Lola.

[00:55:41] I mean, any movie that has. Like an old couple. Like the first thing I think of is the notebook, which is super old. So the notebook, spoilers it, I think, I don't think you're spoiling the notebook by anybody. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] I haven't watched it in the last six or 17 years since it's come out. I don't know what to tell you.

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] Everybody always thinks about Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling, right? Yes. Yeah, and it is very beautiful, but the beautiful, the most beautiful part for me is the beginning scene and the end scene with the old people. That's right. That shit makes me cry every time. And, and reoccur like, other movies that have similar themes with when a single old people dying or people dying and like old couples together, like Kapil old, couple where, whether in love and they're dying.

[00:55:41] Right. What, what is it about that that makes us cry? I think it's because it's so beautiful. It's like, wow. They probably were making these assumptions endured so much together in life. Like they're that special bond that they have is very particular because you can't build that level of relationship with someone unless you've walked the road of life with them for.

[00:55:41] 50 60 years, and that's not a common thing. And I think because of that, we can see how special it is and when that bond is broken, not of either person's fault, but because of nature, then it becomes really sad. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] It's almost as if. And I don't mean for it to, it might come across a little, yeah. More of it than I intend for it to be, but it's almost, it's the combination of love, so to speak, you know, to, to, you know, to move on, to pass on.

[00:55:41] So it's like that ultimate finality of it. 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] Yeah. And I think also for, I don't know, I can't speak for like either of you, but for me, I think I subconsciously want to be like, am I ever going to get there with someone one day? You know, And, and it's like that isn't, isn't that the dream isn't that the goal is to grow all together and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

[00:55:41] Right. And when you see that in movies, they're like, yeah, that's a prime example of what that dream could look like. And then when one of them has to leave and pass on. Oh, you know, and it's interesting because a lot of, I hear a lot of stories of like, Older, you know, grandparents or great grandparents when one of them passes, the other person quickly follows, even though they might not have had any diseases or any health conditions, but they just, they just go along with them and, you know, science can explain that.

[00:55:41] But I think that, that there is like there, I don't know,

[00:55:41] three times, but it just wouldn't have. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] Where it's hard sometimes 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] where it's not easy, but you know what I mean? Right. Like 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] it's literally, it's called dying of a broken heart. Not to be confused with the shitty way they did it in episode three, that it star Wars. Sorry. very awful. Oh, gee trilogy. All right.

[00:55:41] I'm just going to go on the record and say, Oh gee, Charlie, he's the only thing I acknowledged, but yeah, no. When a married couple has been together for a long time and one passes on another passes within a year, usually they dive a broken heart quite literally. 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] Yeah, that's really sad. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] Right. 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] But also isn't that remarkable, like how humans are like, Hey, you know, I'm ready to go.

[00:55:41] Cause my partner has already left and I got to go with them. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] I think there's something beautiful about that. 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] Something very beautiful. And also I think is some also says a lot about how we fall into these codependency. Ooh, just wired. Yeah. Full circle. Just fucking lupus. Yeah. I looked up. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] It's interesting 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] because I mean, if, if I think about like old couples that I know, which is, you know, Two of them, 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] your grandparents?

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] Well, from the notebook. Okay. Yeah. Like, are they not codependent? 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] I think it just, I mean, 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] like my grandma, my grandpa and grandma might, why Paul? Why home or Apple and Apple. And in my dialect, they like baby each other. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] Yeah 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] on a daily basis. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] That's so sweet. 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] It's super sweet, but it's also like, that's just their norm, but like, can they bail on their own?

[00:55:41] Cause isn't that? How isn't that? How we first defined it at the beginning of this episode is like, when I was asking, well, what, what's the difference between, you know, a partnership and codependency? Well, I don't know. Cause they're also from a, such a different generation too, right? Like. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] I don't know. I, I guess I think, I think, Chris is kind of hitting the point it's they, they could do it by themselves, but they choose to do it for each other.

[00:55:41] And it's that choice of doing it for each other. Not because the others aren't able to do it for each other. Like, I think that's that fine line between like partnership versus codependency. I a hundred percent agree with that.

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] Now I'm sad because I keep thinking about what Christie said about, like, we just all want somebody to grow old with and it's that human yearning for someone to just understand you so well. Yeah. That once they pass, you're like, if nobody knows me, am I alive? 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] Yeah. I mean, there's something that's beautiful about it.

[00:55:41] Romance would not be one of the greatest stories of all time if it was not for that. 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Or it could also just be like, Oh, you know what? I've lived a great life with my partner. I've seen all these things done, all this stuff. I'm just ready. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] I'm good. It's kinda like I finished off my bucket list.

[00:55:41] I got nothing else to go for it. So I'm good. It's a good life. 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] I'm going to choose to think about it in those terms. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] Yeah. I don't know. It's. Yeah, there's something beautiful about it, but can't forget about the in between, which is the lives that we have to live, because there's so much worth living for in between beyond just love, you know, career, you know, providing, you know, doing good in the world, I guess, making money, maybe not the latter, that's not as important, but 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] it's not as it keeps it going.

[00:55:41] Exactly. It keeps you alive long enough for you to do all the former things. Unless the money is coming from you, giving so much to the world and the money just happens to be there. You're not doing it for the money, but whatever you're doing is providing so much value to the world that people just choose to give you money for it.

[00:55:41] And then it's like, well, the more money you have, that just means the more good you're doing to the world. 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] Ideally in an ideal world, 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] a lot of us are not there 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] yet, but, you know, yeah. And unfortunately, and unfortunately with a lot of the systems we have in place doesn't necessarily go that way either. But I don't need to go there, but yeah, no, 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] we 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] can go there today.

[00:55:41] Another day. 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] Next episode, when we have will coming back onto us, if we would graciously agreed to 

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] come, God, I would love to, I have so much wore dirty laundry to take out. My mother would not be happy with 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] me at all. And you gave us a lot of material, like you said, and there's lots of things. So we want to dive into, so we're gonna save that for the next episode.

[00:55:41] William Shaw: [00:55:41] Sounds like a plan, 

[00:55:41] Kristy Yee: [00:55:41] but I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna circle it back a little bit to the mom things because our podcast is called shit. We don't tell mom. So I'm curious if you had the chance to say something to your mom. Is there anything that you'd like I have to say to her? 

[00:55:59] William Shaw: [00:55:59] Hmm. That's a really good question.

[00:56:01] And it's not something I've ever thought too deeply about, but

[00:56:07] one of the things with my mom, whenever, you know, past abuse was brought up because the only person that never brought up pressed abuse was me. My sister, you know, confronted my mom and her shit. And so did my brother. And the thing that you would always say is, Oh my God, Is that, how do you remember that?

[00:56:23] Did I really do those things? I don't remember that. Well, if I did do that, I'm so sorry. I mean, you know, I'm sorry that I made you feel that way, which is the worst type of apology you can give. I guess if she was right here in front of me, I would just ask her, you know, do you really not remember it or.

[00:56:46]You know, are you just lying to us again?

[00:56:48]Kristy Yee: [00:56:48] That's powerful.

[00:56:53] William Shaw: [00:56:53] Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Wouldn't have much else to say beyond that.

[00:56:59]It's like I said, I'm one of the questions that you guys submitted to me. What's the one thing that you wouldn't tell your mom. It really is as awful as it is to say like, It's peace. I've never known since she's been, you know, since she passed on April 25th of 17.

[00:57:15]Kristy Yee: [00:57:15] Well, 

[00:57:16] William Shaw: [00:57:16] yeah. 

[00:57:18] Kristy Yee: [00:57:18] Well, thank you so much for sharing that with us today and for all of the yummy nuggets that we've dropped all throughout this conversation tonight. Thank you so much. 

[00:57:28] William Shaw: [00:57:28] Hey, I appreciate you both edgy Christie. You were both wonderful people. Thanks for having me on. I cannot wait to just dive into more of this stuff with y'all.

[00:57:38] Kristy Yee: [00:57:38] That's what you say now. 

[00:57:41] William Shaw: [00:57:41] Seed. Oh, no, you finished first Christie. 

[00:57:45] Kristy Yee: [00:57:45] We're just getting started with you. So

[00:57:50] William Shaw: [00:57:50] Oh, wow. I expect even harder hitting questions, not just from Kristy, but from YouTube edgy. I expect, I expect some real fucking like,

[00:58:03] but to be fair, it sounds like I was given like pseudo, almost panic attack. So she had a role like. Almost my beef for that, you know, self care is super important. I mean, going to relax very hard after this, 

[00:58:16] Kristy Yee: [00:58:16] where can some of our listeners find you well and your great work? 

[00:58:20] William Shaw: [00:58:20] Well at the moment you have a lot of great work to put out.

[00:58:25] I do. I have some things I am not ready to, you know, Put out into the either just yet, but I do have, a pilot that should hopefully be coming out in the near future that I did act in called Sparky. it's basically like a take of office parks and rec, except it's a with like labor unions and the like, right, right, right, right, right.

[00:58:45]And I, I absolutely love, love the character I played. So that's going to be a thing that comes up, but don't have a release date for that. What I would tell you is you could just find me in the social media is you could definitely follow me on my Instagram handle Twitter. I very horrible about, but you're following me on it.

[00:59:03] It's the same handle on both. It is. I'm very punny. Are you ready for this guys? 

[00:59:09] Kristy Yee: [00:59:09] I'm going to look it up Instagram right now. Live. 

[00:59:13] William Shaw: [00:59:13] Yeah, let's go. So it's going to be T R U three to make a true, except I could use an E so T R U three little power.

[00:59:23] Kristy Yee: [00:59:23] I love it. I love it all. We're going to link it to the show notes when the pilot Ken drop and when your work can drop, let us know. We'll link all of that in the show notes as well. 

[00:59:34] William Shaw: [00:59:34] God. Yeah, no, I loved it guys already, but you just be still my beating heart. 

[00:59:40] Kristy Yee: [00:59:40] I got it off. Right. Thank you so much again for joining us tonight.

[00:59:46] William Shaw: [00:59:46] Thank you very much for both of you for having me. You guys were such gracious hosts and I can't wait to get into more stuff with y'all. 

[00:59:52] Kristy Yee: [00:59:52] All right. We'll talk to you soon. All right. 

[00:59:54] William Shaw: [00:59:54] Peace, peace, peace. 

[00:59:56] Kristy Yee: [00:59:56] Okay. 

[00:59:56] William Shaw: [00:59:56] Bye. Bye. Bye.

[00:59:59]