10. The F (ailure) Word ft. Calven Wang

Failure: the word we have learned to fear in an Asian household. In this episode, Calven Wang joins us with his perspective on how to overcome the fear of failure, relationship advice for singles, and how we can improve ourselves. He’s also got this bomb ass relationship with his mom that involves hugging. 

Highlights: 

• First break up with a girlfriend 
• The pressures from family to “be someone”
• From 1.49 GPA to being a TA 
• Being jealous in a relationship

Takeaway: 

• There is a difference between seeking comfort and seeking improvement
• Get life advice from people who don't know you very well 
• Many relationship issues can be resolved by bettering yourself 
• Unload your shit with different people rather than the same select few

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Transcript

Calven Wang: [00:00:00] no, I'm scared. I feel like you guys are going to attack me,

[00:00:07]Angie Yu: [00:00:07]   okay. So we're recording and this feels really strange because I can't see my cohost, but I am looking at a new person here. Hello. 

[00:00:39] Calven Wang: [00:00:39] Hello? Hello. How's it going? 

[00:00:41]Angie Yu: [00:00:41] So this is Kelvin. You're our first guest on the show. I have been replaced in the studio. 

[00:00:46]Calven Wang: [00:00:46] Yeah. All the time.

[00:00:50]  Should we don't tell mom I've replaced Angie and Christie from now on. So please enjoy. And I'll be so much better. 

[00:01:02] Angie Yu: [00:01:03] We'll see about that. So now we're going to lean back and let a Calvin go for it.  Boom. 

[00:01:08]Calven Wang: [00:01:08] Okay. I quit. 

[00:01:11] Angie Yu: [00:01:11] And tell us a little bit about yourself. 

[00:01:13]Calven Wang: [00:01:13] All right. Um, 

[00:01:13] Angie Yu: [00:01:13] no pressure.

[00:01:14] Just like your entire life 

[00:01:16] Calven Wang: [00:01:16] in 

[00:01:17] Angie Yu: [00:01:17] two sentences. 

[00:01:18]Calven Wang: [00:01:18] Uh, I'm Calvin I'm 27. Um, I was born in Japan. Um, I'm Chinese. Came over to Canada. And I currently work at a accounting firm with my CPA. So yeah, I have letters behind my name, not MD, but it's, you know, 

[00:01:33]Angie Yu: [00:01:33] almost doctor stalker 

[00:01:35] Calven Wang: [00:01:35] accounting doctors, um, all my spare time.

[00:01:38] I like to go to the gym and I like to golf. No, that's I think that students. 

[00:01:43]Angie Yu: [00:01:43] Yeah. That's  two sentences. ,. Um, so basically Kelvin is, um,  I guess I can call you my friend, I guess we're friends 

[00:01:50]Calven Wang: [00:01:50] where university students, university, 

[00:01:53] Angie Yu: [00:01:53] university friends. Yeah. 

[00:01:55]Calven Wang: [00:01:55] We shared an office.

[00:01:57]Angie Yu: [00:01:57] Well, I used your office to study. hold up office in a 

[00:02:01] Calven Wang: [00:02:01] university. Yeah. I was a teaching assistant. 

[00:02:04]Angie Yu: [00:02:04] Okay. Yeah. So Kelvin, you're a teaching assistant, so it was my friend Felicia and that's right. And what happened was I came back from Asia and all my friends had graduated,

[00:02:13]so I had no friends 

[00:02:14]Calven Wang: [00:02:14] on the drive here. I'm like,  she like sat in the office. So like, I just thought that you are a fellow TA, right. 

[00:02:25] Angie Yu: [00:02:25] Um, no it's cause it was really sad cause I had no friends. 

[00:02:29]Calven Wang: [00:02:29] Okay. I guess we are friends. 

[00:02:33] Angie Yu: [00:02:33] Now you have to be,  you 

[00:02:35]Calven Wang: [00:02:35] pressured me into saying that.

[00:02:36]Angie Yu: [00:02:36] Yeah, I did. 

[00:02:37] You thought Andrew was a fellow TA, but little did you know? She just came with the office So then how did you guys become friends? Friends? Like how, how did it come to be that it blossomed to you? Replacing me as 

[00:02:48] Calven Wang: [00:02:48] a cohost. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was going for a breakup that time.

[00:02:53] Right. And that was my first relationship first, like everything. Right. And it was a relationship that lasted, I think it was two years  and I just didn't know how to react. Right. Like I was just. Like bawling my eyes out half the time the other half would just be like, um, okay, let's go. and he got to a point where I kind of needed that.

[00:03:14] Right. And I think it was just Angie, just sitting there in the, I don't know, you didn't have a key, did you. No, but I think it was just her as well as the other teaching assistants that were just there, you know, just ask me how's everything going, because I must have looked like a train wreck or something like that, you know?

[00:03:32] Cause I don't think I brought it up, but it just looked like I was not doing okay. Yeah. So then, you know, uh, took a couple months, but I think, through that time, Angie. was there to, you know, keep me going, you know, made, made me kind of feel better about myself. So that was my  memory of how we kind of connected.

[00:03:52]Angie Yu: [00:03:52] Yeah. I think you came to me for some advice about like what to do, , which is funny because I'm not known to offer great advice amongst my friendship circle. But I don't know, I guess, cause like I have,

[00:04:12] you were very young.  Yeah, the first breakups are the worst it gets there. Now you have no idea what this feels like, what you're going through. You just spent two years years like a significant amount of time. Bring your heart into another person into another human being.  

[00:04:31] Calven Wang: [00:04:31] Yeah, no, it was, it was, uh, to this day, I don't remember exactly why we broke up, but it was something along the lines of like, I don't know, like, well, you know, uh, my acts at that time was just like, Hey, I don't know what to do.

[00:04:44]You know, I don't know anymore. So for me it was just like, well, it doesn't seem like I did anything wrong. So.  Right. So I think that, to be honest with you, I think that's just the way in my heart.  And like I'm in a better place now. Right. But at that time, Oh my God. I felt like the world was just like crashing.

[00:05:05]Angie Yu: [00:05:05] Yeah. and like, you were young, I think that was probably one of the first, like major  failures in your 

[00:05:10] Calven Wang: [00:05:10] life. Yeah, 

[00:05:12] Angie Yu: [00:05:12] Because you know, I'm not calling you like a stereotype, but like you play golf. You're an accountant. you play golf.

[00:05:20] Like I still, it, you collect letters behind your name. I understand that. . and you were a teaching assistant, so you were doing really well at school. You had a job lined up, and that was probably one of the things where I really impacted you because everything else was going so well.

[00:05:36]Calven Wang: [00:05:36] Well, I think, you know, that's not true. I don't think so because you know, like up until that point, like when I met you, I think I was doing a lot better with myself. but. Like as, you know, Asian stereotype, right? Like I played violin for over 15 years.  Hated it. But my mom and my dad were like, okay, you need to play the instruments either violin or piano.

[00:05:57] So I'm like, okay, I'm going shit out of luck. Right. One or the other. Um, and through that, I personally, he didn't like it, but if I don't do well on my exam, It's. Like, like as no Asian parents you'd either be grounded. I had times where, you know, I couldn't play the computer kind of watch TV, all that kind of stuff.

[00:06:16] Right. So, you know, it was kinda embedded in me to, okay, you gotta do good. Right. You can't screw up, you can't fail. Um, and that kind of propelled myself to, you know, in high school, you know, I, at that point I thought I was smart. Right. Like I thought I was academically smart because in the end I got like, A's in everything.

[00:06:38] Right. But, you know, I got into SFU my first semester and I tell this to a lot of like students, right. Like I had a 1.49 GPA, which is like below 50%. Right. Like that's 

[00:06:53]Angie Yu: [00:06:53] yeah. Yeah. That's like academic 

[00:06:55] Calven Wang: [00:06:55] probation. Yeah. Because academic probation it's like. 2.0 or whatever. 

[00:06:59]Yeah. I think it was like some, somewhere along the lines. Right. Because SFU system, it was like 2.0 was like a C minus or like a C or whatever. Right. But I was at 1.49 fail the course. I had like a C minus in math, which at that time I was like, yo, math is easy. Blah, blah, blah. and that was the first like, fuck, like I gotta get my act together.

[00:07:21]once I saw that, you know, um, I guess transcript at that time it freaked me out. Right. Because I've never really been in that position before. Right. Um, But, you know, two years later, obviously I'm a TA for a course, you know, that's just 

[00:07:36] Angie Yu: [00:07:36] for context, you have to have good grades in that class to be a teaching assistant for that specifically.

[00:07:41] Calven Wang: [00:07:41] Yeah. You have to end up doing well in the class or 

[00:07:45] Angie Yu: [00:07:45] in your major, 

[00:07:46] Calven Wang: [00:07:46] in your major in order to teach other people. Right. But you know, that, that's the one thing that I kind of learned where, you know, I was like sheltered during my life and it's always been something like, okay, don't take the opportunity, take the safe route.

[00:08:00]Um, and through my first semester I did take, you know, courses that I thought. No, we're easy, but it was actually very challenging. Right. So I took that first step to not, yeah, I failed, but you know, the biggest thing was okay, what am I going to do next?  Right. Okay. I failed. So what am I going to do about it?

[00:08:17] I'm not gonna sulk and like, you know, not do anything or am I going to do something about it? Right. So the next couple of semesters, it was still a gradual learning experience. I think bottom line was, I didn't know how to study. Like efficiently and effectively study. Why? Because it doesn't really matter if you sit there for eight hours, 10 hours, you know, however long if it's not getting into your system, then there's no point.

[00:08:43] Right. So that was, I guess, the biggest learning curve that I really have to go through to get 

[00:08:48] Angie Yu: [00:08:48] to that. And you were on academic probation. Did you tell anybody about it? 

[00:08:54]Calven Wang: [00:08:54] I didn't like, I didn't tell my parents.  Right. They asked and I'm like, ah, don't worry about it. 

[00:08:59] Angie Yu: [00:08:59] Do they know now? 

[00:09:00] Calven Wang: [00:09:00] Oh yeah. I don't know when I told them probably in my third year.

[00:09:06]Third year as in, once I started getting into the core business courses. Right. And that's, and like my grades, like I ended up with like a 2.9 GPA. I was, I think I broke three, but it came down.  No, I broke the 3.0 GPA, which is not to the audiences. Maybe a B plus maybe. I don't remember.

[00:09:28] Angie Yu: [00:09:31] We deleted those types of information from our heads but three is definitely like what people, well, aim to get minimum. So you can always like do graduate school and stuff like that. Now. 

[00:09:41]Calven Wang: [00:09:41] Yeah. So, you know, I was very fortunate, uh, you know, at the end of the day I got that 2.9, but I started out with that 1.4, nine GPA.

[00:09:48] Right. So getting back up to that point, like, yeah. That's I definitely failed, but it's a good story for students, right. Or like anyone that okay. It's okay to fail because if you take the necessary steps and the right steps, 

[00:10:03] Angie Yu: [00:10:03] but how did you know what steps to take if you didn't talk to anybody about it?

[00:10:06]Calven Wang: [00:10:06] So I did, I definitely didn't admit that I had at 1.49, but you know, BD SFU, um, within the business, I guess, program, there's a lot of older students that want to help you, right? They want to mentor you. They want to help you out. So I had. You know that connection with a lot of older students. Right. Um, cause in the end I was like, okay, I don't really want to tell my like same year friends.

[00:10:33] Right. Um, but more or less. Okay. I had a fourth year mentor. So someone that was three or four years older than I was, um, It's kind of ask them, what do you do to stay? So I was kind of more or less asking certain questions to, to improve a certain aspect of not really admitting the fact that I did. 

[00:10:51]Angie Yu: [00:10:51] Right.

[00:10:52]What do you think, made you not want to tell people who are in your level, your 

[00:10:57] Calven Wang: [00:10:57] peers. I think that was ingrained into me by my parents, to be honest with you, like it was that failure aspect then And like  my parents aren't that bad compared to what I've seen, but like, you know, within, let's say family gatherings, right.

[00:11:13] It's always, Oh, my son is doing this. My son is doing that. Like, he's doing super, well He's gonna be  blah, blah, blah. Right. Um, but. I guess for me, it's kind of like, my parents had a very high expectation  for me. Right. So at that point in time, me telling other people, it was just like a natural thing.

[00:11:35] I was like, well, I don't want to embarrass my parents for myself at that point in time. But for me now, like, I dunno. I think it definitely helps other people to kind of realize, Hey it's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. No, one's a perfect human being, right? Like that's the whole point of being alive. Right.

[00:11:52] You're never going to be perfect. Sure will happen to you. But. Okay, well, move on. Let's let, let's do something involved with it. Right. 

[00:12:00] Angie Yu: [00:12:00] You know, what's funny is, um,  when I was going through my breakup, the tables turned and you were giving me advice, what happened? Human nature, right. We're just here to support each other.

[00:12:14] And it really sounds like, having failed the first semester, that was a big turning point for you, especially being so used to. Having the title of a straight student. And then all of a sudden, Whoa, this failure thing exists. Like this is what it feels like. And I don't want to tell my parents cause I don't want to disappoint them, especially because in the Chinese culture, there's a lot of comparison and there's a lot of pride  and then now they can't talk  about you in the family gatherings, You don't want your parents to be those people who don't speak about their son. Yeah. But I don't know.  I've always found that really problematic because. It's so much about faith in the 10th culture. Even like, even for you, Calvin, you were born in Japan, but your parents are 

[00:12:56] Calven Wang: [00:12:56] both Chinese.

[00:12:57]They're both,  

[00:12:58] 

[00:12:58] Angie Yu: [00:12:58] they're both Chinese.  I mean in Japan as well, that's the culture, right?  it's so ingrained , in these cultures to be like, Hey, if my son is successful, that means I'm successful. Which is so toxic. 

[00:13:11]Calven Wang: [00:13:11] It is. It's very, but like, I think aside from Asian culture, I feel like it's just the natural thing to, for people, right?

[00:13:20] Like you always want to have, like, let's say social media, for example, right? Like Instagram, whether you're Asian, whoever whomever, right. You always want to show that success. 

[00:13:30]Angie Yu: [00:13:30] You're right. 

[00:13:30] Calven Wang: [00:13:30] Yeah. There's no like actively, you know, there's nobody that really posts anything. That's. Like negative until something good happens.

[00:13:38] Right? So like, let's say for me, for example, or like LinkedIn is a great example, right? Like, you'll hear so many people saying, Oh, this stuff happened to me. Like very unfortunate, blah, blah, blah. But I got this or I, you know, I drove, I saw within the last four years I improved myself. I educated myself and I'm here in a better place.

[00:13:59] Right. So there's always. Yeah. Like, I'm not going to say that there's no negativity, but people actively show it at that point 

[00:14:09]Angie Yu: [00:14:09] until they've, they've like, look how, where I am now. It's like they'll only tell the full story once there's a happy ending at the end.

[00:14:16]And I feel like that's so sad because then we're just always trying to chase for this happy ending. And we're not able to fully present ourselves to the world at our present moment. 

[00:14:26]Calven Wang: [00:14:26] Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, based, I don't know when I started acting a little differently. but within the span of.

[00:14:36]Either the breakup or even like the grades. Right. For me, if something negative happens, I still will tell somebody, right. Like even work too. Right. If I feel like I didn't do a good job,  I'll say, I'll be like, Hey, you know, like, I don't think I did a good job because of this, this and this, rather than just sitting there and just contemplating about stuff.

[00:14:57] Right. Because in the end I feel like if I were. I guess follow up everything. Eventually it's going to explode. Right. So actively. And I think I have been doing this over the last several years is if there's an issue in it, there's something on my mind, then I'll still say it. Like I tell my parents everything now.

[00:15:15]Right. Whether it be no I'm okay. Build relationships.  Um, something that happened at work and anything that's negative,  like lots of stops. For example, I lost a shipped out on frickin money at one point. Right. But I, I, since we've covered. Right. But at that point in time, I was like, mom, I lost, you know, X amount. And she's just like, Told you like, don't invest in stocks, blah, blah, blah.

[00:15:38] Right. But you know, it's still letting that out. 

[00:15:42]Angie Yu: [00:15:42] Do you think talking to your parents about it and we're even talking to other people about it makes you feel less shame around it, so you're normalizing it. 

[00:15:52] Calven Wang: [00:15:52] I don't think it's shame. Like I'm in a mindset now that if I make a mistake, it's okay. I'm not shamed about it.

[00:16:00] Right. It's because it doesn't really cross my mind at that point. As she will anymore.   because it's just a mistake. And going back to the whole process that I kind of said, well, okay, what are you going to do about it? Right. So let's say if you did something stupid, for example, right. You acknowledge it.

[00:16:18] You say, okay, next time just don't do that same stupid thing again. Right. Um, yeah, like I don't think I'm not shameful at all. 

[00:16:26]Angie Yu: [00:16:26] It sounds like you're now at a point where you just own up to your mistakes, like shit happens. we make mistakes all the time and when it does happen, you're like, you know what?

[00:16:37]I made a mistake. I did something dumb here it is. And you're not afraid to just put a stamp on it now. So  where in your life do you think you started making that shift from, the Calvin who failed first term and feeling so much shame around that, not telling your peers, not telling your family and only because you have that fourth year mentor, did you open up to the Calvin today where you're like, you know what?

[00:17:01] I fucked up.

[00:17:02]Calven Wang: [00:17:02] I think. It was just repeating those failures, right? Like it got to a point where, okay. Um, I didn't do well on university courses, then the next big thing was the breakup. Right. And then the second was, you know, for accounting, there's a huge recruitment process  at that point in time, it was just like a one, one time thing every year.

[00:17:24]Like you just have to bust your ass. do well in your interviews, um, and try to get a job. Right. I didn't make it the first time actually. And that, like, I was crying, blah, blah, blah. Like, and I think, you know, going back to that, that first breakup we actually, um, made up and we like started dating. 

[00:17:44] Angie Yu: [00:17:44] Yeah, that's right.

[00:17:44] You got back together. 

[00:17:45] Calven Wang: [00:17:45] That's right,    right. Um, and. I actually got broken up with a couple days before the results came out, not being like, yeah, the companies would call like on that specific day at nine o'clock. Um, and you know, I had, uh, like a co-op advisor that I kind of considered as like my second mom.

[00:18:08] So I was explaining the whole situation to her. She was like, Oh, you know, I feel like you did a good job. I feel like this company will like, they'll get at least an offer. And it was in that office that I got a call from the, from the, you know, I thought I had the best chancellor and Jack called me at nine o'clock did reject me.

[00:18:29] So I was just ground zero. I was just like being. I like, I laugh at it now. Like I had a phone call with her, like the other day, um, you know, just wanted to see how she was and, you know, we were just reminiscing about me, just me being in her office. Right. Um, and then followed by that, like, I've been through a fair share of breakups.

[00:18:50]Right. So I think. You know, since I think it was after to a point where I did get an offer and I was in another happy relationship. That's when I said, Oh, you know, I was talking about these things and I was shameful, but in the end, I'm in a better place right now. And I think that's when it just, I like, I can't see a certain period of time.

[00:19:13] No, I can't say, Oh, this is when exactly 

[00:19:16]  yeah. There was no epitome. It just naturally kind of, kind of went there. Like I shifted my mindset where like,  you know, went to a point where I knew like, inside, I just knew that it's not good for me to just  think like that.

[00:19:34] Right. So it's slowly kind of evolved into being a little bit more positive and be like, Hey it's okay. 

[00:19:42]Angie Yu: [00:19:42]  for so many folks and people who are listening , it would show up that that's your growth process. Like it didn't happen on Sunday, April 27, and you just switched, you know, you're like, I'm going to start talking about all the failures, but it happens because you continue to gain life experience and you continue to face failures.

[00:20:01] And that's just, that's the same goes for everybody. In this room and everybody who's listening, but I think what it is when you first started, that's not something that you were used to because we were young. We didn't face a lot of adversities we were taught to do well, and that's the only option. And so when one day you didn't, that's a huge blow in the face.

[00:20:21] And you're like, what the fuck? I don't know.

[00:20:22]     I'm good.   But then every time you're kind of like,  and then you learn from that it's 

[00:20:32] Calven Wang: [00:20:32] experience, right? Like it's so cliche, but you need to go through failures and you need to go through experiences, whether it be successful or not to be who you are. Right. And, you know, I understand that there's that fear that there's that risk, that things might not go well.

[00:20:50] Right. But in the end you still come out and learn something, right? Like I would say, yeah, like back in my first relationship, I was definitely the jealous type.  Like I was super jealous yeah, this is 21 year old Calvin.

[00:21:05] Angie Yu: [00:21:05] I think your first girlfriend, I remember you telling me it's because she worked at like a really nice restaurant where they hire, like go looking girls so that I can get nice tips. And, and you had a problem with that.

[00:21:18]Calven Wang: [00:21:18]   It was very attractive, and in the end, like obvious, like now I'm in a mindset where, okay, I'm dating someone. It's a compliment for other guys to  be attracted to my girlfriend. Right. But at that point in time, I didn't like, it was my first relationship. And, you know, you know, like, TV's that you watch, obviously the, the guy in the drama, or like the movie would stick up for the girl and like, you know, cause a scene.

[00:21:43] And you know, like at that point in time, that's how I felt. So I remember me being super jealous, but you know, within our. Either arguments or, you know, certain aspects that resulted in the breakup. I kind of looked back and said, okay, that's not very good. Really good. Right. Um, so through that, you know, if you were to ask any of my past relationships after the first X, I would definitely be on the other side of the spectrum where I just don't care.

[00:22:14] like that's cool, but if it gets to a point then, okay, I can step in and try to help you out. But like, you can deal with that, right? Like it's not something that I need to get jealous over because you're my girlfriend.  There's that trust there. Right? So there's nothing, there's no point in me stressing out about something that is very high level.

[00:22:32]  Angie Yu: [00:22:36] Can you share an example of when you did get jealous    

[00:22:43] Calven Wang: [00:22:43] you know? Yeah. Like goes out that one. They like to go to the club and like, for, for me, I hate going to the club.  Like, there's no advantage for guys. Like you pay for drains,  you spend like 150 bucks. You buy a drink for a girl.

[00:22:59] They'll probably drink to give you like, Oh, hi, nice to meet you.

[00:23:05] Angie Yu: [00:23:06] Really try to hold it in our giggle, but I can't even her right now. But I feel like because we've been clubbing phase and you're either love it or hate it.  do you think

[00:23:17]  when I was age 17 to 20, I loved it. It's technically not legal.  I know I had a fake ID. Okay, it's fine.  I'm almost 30. Now. I could talk about my past. So from age 17 to 20, I loved it because I got attention. I got free drinks. I never had some lineups go into the club. It was like all benefit. No downsides.

[00:23:45]There was a little bit of downside. Like heels are not good for you . Right? Okay. other than like physical pain

[00:23:51]and freezing my ass off in the winter Other than that, that, and maybe, I don't know, like damage to my right. The reputation.

[00:24:00] Fun and everyone was doing it. at that point, I quote unquote loved it. I didn't do it all the time, but there were definitely people that were into it way more than I was. But I think as I got older, I started hating it. , I actually used to like berate my friends for doing that to guys, for getting a drink and then quote, unquote, disappear into the crowd.

[00:24:20]Cause they'll be like, Hey Angie, come here. That guy wants to buy me drinks, come with me and we can take the drink. And then. Tell me, you need to go to the bathroom and I'm like, I'm not comfortable doing that. I would be the friends to do that. Now looking back, I'm like, no, if this guy wants to buy a drink, fucking take it.

[00:24:38] Like you don't owe this guy anything. But like,  but I think young Angie was so adamant a looking a certain way, young Angie was very, uh, I don't know egotistical about her image, but now I'd be like, girl, take that drink. It's his fault. If he wants to buy your drink, 

[00:24:55]Calven Wang: [00:24:55] this is a side story.

[00:24:56] But in Thailand, you know how I went on that big trip after writing my CPA exam, I went to Thailand and you know, my fellow companion, we travel with he's gay. Right. And he wanted to go to this like drag show. Right. And within Bangkok, there's this one strip. Where it's just like a, like a game, right? I'm like, you know why like the school, why not?

[00:25:18] Right. And that was the first, like, you know, throughout the night. There are things that happened, you know, I got my butt slap. Yeah. 

[00:25:26]  Angie Yu: [00:25:27] That's the worst that happened, 

[00:25:28] Calven Wang: [00:25:29] but it's really Jack Warner. 

[00:25:33] Kristy Yee: [00:25:34] Okay at this point calvin was just talking about how he got his nipples flicked by a

[00:25:39] really jacked guy 

[00:25:40]Calven Wang: [00:25:40] 

[00:25:40] I didn't know who did it, but like I spun around and I was like, What the hell I looked at the size of this guy and I'm like, you know what, I'm just gonna, 

[00:25:46]we, we sat in the bar of this drag show. Right. And, um, yeah, we were just enjoying the show and there was this guy that was just, you know, talking to. Like us, both of us, but he was just kind of looking at me and just talking. And I felt that I was like, I don't know, watch the drag Queens, you know, like in the same mood, I'm just wanting to enjoy the show.

[00:26:09] But Scott was just talking to me. I'm like, okay, whatever. And then he brings over drinks  and he bought one for like my friend, Bruce and myself. And at that point I'm like, I feel bad 

[00:26:22]Angie Yu: [00:26:22] because now you feel like you owe him something. 

[00:26:24] Calven Wang: [00:26:24] And then I like just continued to like, totally. 

[00:26:30]Angie Yu: [00:26:30] Did you feel obligated to stay and talk to him?

[00:26:32] Calven Wang: [00:26:32] Yeah, that was my first experience. I was like, I see both sides because one, we want to get to know you. Right. But the other is. I don't really want to talk to you about 

[00:26:49] Angie Yu: [00:26:49] Bruce 

[00:26:49] Calven Wang: [00:26:49] is just in the corner. Just loving it. Right. Because she's not doing anything. He's just enjoying you, just sitting next to me and he's just sitting there and just drinking his free drink.

[00:27:00] Right. Um, yeah. So that's 

[00:27:03]Angie Yu: [00:27:03] out for free 

[00:27:04] drinks. 

[00:27:04] Calven Wang: [00:27:04] Yeah, totally. And I think that was his ultimate plan. Going to the drag show, but just getting things 

[00:27:10] Angie Yu: [00:27:10] very smart.

[00:27:11]Calven Wang: [00:27:11] I'm sorry. Yeah, that was a tangent. But once you guys set the drinks thing, it just popped out in 

[00:27:17] Angie Yu: [00:27:17] mind. It's interesting though, isn't it? That when this guy bought you all these drinks, because there was this almost, um, what is it called? A. Unspoken exchange. Right? If this was a straight guy, let's say it was just some random dude.

[00:27:31] He just wanted to make a new friend. Would you have felt obligated to stay? 

[00:27:35]Calven Wang: [00:27:35] Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Right. Like when we're traveling or, and he was from Singapore or whatever, and he was there for a business trip. So, you know, Bruce, on the other hand, he was just telling me, just want to be friends, blah, blah, blah.

[00:27:47] Right. Yeah. In fact, for me, you know, The few hours before the show, I got my ass slapped and my nipples fled. So my mindset was a little different, right?

[00:28:06] Angie Yu: [00:28:06] The actions of other gay men had given you this generalized. Perception of what all other gay men? 

[00:28:15]Calven Wang: [00:28:15] No, no, no, no, no. I think that was just an experience, but you know, at that point in time, it's not about being either gay or 

[00:28:22] Angie Yu: [00:28:22] no, no, no, no. Like I think it's because like, it seemed like there was some sort of interest in you.

[00:28:27] I think. So. So as like a girl, I think it's very difficult to navigate that too, when you're out, especially at a club. Right? Because you can't, it's hard to tell the difference, like, does this guy want to be friends? Is it being friendly or is he being friendly 

[00:28:43] Calven Wang: [00:28:44] when I'm going to a club though? Like as a, like, I don't go there.

[00:28:47] Like I haven't been to a club for more than like, I 

[00:28:51] Angie Yu: [00:28:51] guess. 

[00:28:51] Calven Wang: [00:28:51] Yeah. Yeah. The last time I went was this Thailand trip. But even before that, I think I went less than 10 times over my lifetime. Right walk like knowing a couple of my friends, you know, they like to go there to obviously girls  Most of the time that I've been, it was more or less, Oh, it was in advance. Um, like the business school had like X event to raise money. So you better show up all blah, blah. No, like my intent, I never had any intentions of going to clubs to head up growth. It was more or less. Being forced to go 

[00:29:24] Angie Yu: [00:29:25] like an obligation obligation that you had to fulfill, like, because your peers are going, and this is the school thing.

[00:29:32]You need it to be there to support, which is funny because just the act of going, is an obligation. And then there's a whole other side of it is now you experienced what it's like to have a dream being purchased for you. And then you felt the obligation  because someone had shown. Kindness, maybe regardless of what their intentions but either way someone made a gesture and you felt obligated to reciprocate in some way,

[00:29:58] Calven Wang: [00:29:58] yeah. You know, tying it back to this whole jealousy thing. Right. Like, I was pissed off at the fact that I would talk to my girlfriend or like offer her something. Right. But like, you guys explained it, right. It's you don't know what the intentions are. Right. But that's something that's out of,  you know?

[00:30:16]The girl's been full. She's just there. Right. I just came up to her. It's not really her doing it. It's a problem, obviously. What if you know, there's interaction and there's, I guess the bounce back, I think that's a little different, right. But at that point in time, you know, I was jealous at the fact that some dude was talking to my girlfriend.

[00:30:36]And that's how jealous I was. 

[00:30:39] Angie Yu: [00:30:39] Did you blame your girlfriend at that time? 

[00:30:41] Calven Wang: [00:30:41] To be honest with you? Yeah, I don't remember, but I definitely do think, you know, it's not far off to say I did, like I said, like, I would kind of say things like, Oh, why are you going to the club? Right. But for her most likely, like she wanted to have fun with her friends have drinks, all that.

[00:30:59] Right. But for me, my mindset was. Why do you want to include a club when it's just full of guys that want to hit on? Right. Um, I think that's 

[00:31:07] Angie Yu: [00:31:07] a really mature realization to be like, you know, I probably did. Yeah. 

[00:31:11] Calven Wang: [00:31:11] Yeah. I think I definitely did. And, you know, looking back, going back to the whole, I don't think I did anything wrong at that point in time.

[00:31:19] Like looking back. Yeah. There were definitely certain things that. No. I had to change about myself to be in like a stable relationship for the future. Right. And yeah, it took a while, right. Because in the first, you know, one month of me getting broken up with, I didn't know any better, right. Like, cause the, I guess, E closing, um, or I guess a conversation that I had with the ex was.

[00:31:46] She doesn't know anymore, like relationship is done. There's nothing. Well, from what she said, there's nothing that you did wrong. Right. So I was in that position where, okay. I don't know what I did wrong, so what did I do? Right. But upon that failure, per se, um, and looking back at what I did, boy. Yeah.

[00:32:07] There's major issues that.  I know I was acting upon that,  

[00:32:12] Angie Yu: [00:32:12] yeah, and I think that's really good that you can go back and think about that retrospectively. I actually remember now that you talk about it,

[00:32:22] do you remember the second time you guys broke up? you guys broke up, got back together for a little bit and then you broke up again and I remember you were messaging me on Facebook, like. Fuck. We broke up again and I'm like, Oh my God, are you okay? And then you were talking to me about this stuff and I was just like, okay.

[00:32:37] And then, I think maybe a year later you got into another relationship and then you guys broke up and then you came to me again and you're like, Hey, I'm going through another breakup again. And I was like, I don't mean this in any like, bad way, but why do you only come to me when you're going through a breakup?

[00:32:54], like, we didn't really talk that much. otherwise, and I was like, okay, like, I know you have lots of friends, you're quite a popular guy. And I was just 

[00:33:02] Calven Wang: [00:33:02] like, sure. 

[00:33:05] Angie Yu: [00:33:05] Okay. From social media anyway. Yeah. But if I knew you have friends, um, and I was just like, Hey, like, Why do you keep coming to me?

[00:33:12] Not in like a bad way, but I was just curious. 

[00:33:14]Calven Wang: [00:33:14] I think for me, I really don't like,  it's not sharing it with friends because in the end, what happens when you share with friends is they're always going to be on your side? Well, I won't say always, but like if there's conflict, most likely, you know, they want to keep that friendship.

[00:33:32] Right. So they'll most likely be like, Oh, screw that girl. Just go for it. Like whomever else. You're like a bomb guy or whatever, like any, like, even for you girls, right. There's going to be that support there.  But you know, what, what I realized was having a third party that didn't know anything about the relationship, that's the best way to.

[00:33:54]get advice, right? Because you don't have that bias at that certain point you're not affected. Right. Um, and there was that, and I think, you know, you were one of the people that I reached out to, but, you know, I would, that was my way of reconnecting as well. Because at that point in time, when I was in those relationships, I wouldn't talk to anybody.

[00:34:14]Like my life just revolved, like in terms of like, my, my world would just be around this girl. Right. For both times. Right. Um, I was very within that circle. Um, and yeah, like  I needed someone else that didn't know anything that was happening to those relationships to just see if, okay. Weirdo culprit here, because.

[00:34:37]At that point in time, that's the best way to learn, right? Like you don't want to, like,  I've always been told I'm not a person that likes to sugar coat things. Right. I'm very direct. Like if your parents you're a friend of mine and enemy, whatever, I'll let you know, because for me that, that's how I would want information.

[00:34:55]If I'm doing something wrong, please tell me. Right. So that way I can improve and just not do things like that again. Right. So I think to answer your question. Yeah. Like you are a third party, that one you helped me out in the first place in that office. And, you know, you were that one figure that helped me through that break up.

[00:35:14] And at that the second break, that was probably the worst breakup that I have to go through because, you know, in the end my mindset was, Oh, I improved. All aspects of the negative things that happened to me in the first relationship. And I still got. dumped    

[00:35:36] Angie Yu: [00:35:36] You went through your moment of failure  at the time. It probably sucks. Cause when you don't know what it is, then you don't even know what to fix, but it wasn't until you reflected. And then you're like, okay, now I know what to fix. I'm going to be better next time. I'm happily ever after. And then it got.

[00:35:51]  And then you're like, well, what,

[00:35:54]you don't really have to Angie. It was like getting that neutral perspective. And I think that's good advice for anybody at any, because you're right. your friends, your family, people who love you, people who support you they're going to be biased. Consciously or subconsciously because I love you and they support you

[00:36:09]because they know you as a person. And they've probably heard some stories about your relationship already and whatever you call them is one sided. Whereas, or anybody else that you talk to you haven't been feeding them this message about who this girl is and what the relationship looks like.

[00:36:24]We're coming from a totally blank. Space. So they're able to give you some different perspectives, . 

[00:36:29]Calven Wang: [00:36:29] Yeah. Well, like, you know, you know, like to say, when you need that support, obviously go to that family member. Right. But, um, there's a difference between comfort and improvement.

[00:36:39]in that point in time. Yeah, of course. I went to my mom. I cried in front of her. 

[00:36:43]Angie Yu: [00:36:43] Right. 

[00:36:45] Calven Wang: [00:36:45] Well, she knew everything that happened, like arguments and all that. Right. So she would be on my side. Right. But I, at that point in time, No, you still need that comfort. Right? Cause you feel like shit. but when it comes to improvement, people really have to have to be a little open and be like, Hey, that's criticism that I really need.

[00:37:05]Angie Yu: [00:37:05] That's a good distinction. Because when you are down, you do need the love and support and you do need that comfort and, and you get that from your friends and family, but you also want to see growth at some point. Like it might not be immediately, but.

[00:37:16] You want to see growth too. I think it can be hard if, um, you received that, I guess, criticism from someone that's supposed to give you comfort. I think that can be really difficult. Um, and I think that's what a lot of people struggle with as well. Like they find it difficult to go to people closest to them for help, because the thing is  you don't want to lose that comfort system.

[00:37:35]So it can be hard to like go to your mom and be like, what did I do wrong? Cause she's. Straight up with you then you're like, where am I going to go for comfort?

[00:37:46] Calven Wang: [00:37:46] Well, you know why? Like, I think in the past, my mom has been very critical of my relationships. So at that point in time and she was going off, like she is and knew it, blah, blah, blah, you are too nice. Like she would just go off on a huge tangent. Right. But like, she has some, you know, point to that. Right.

[00:38:06] But I think it was a little different when I was like, mommy, like, I just want you to like hug me or something, you know, like, Okay. Not hugging you. 

[00:38:15]  Angie Yu: [00:38:17] I am  melting right now.

[00:38:24] Calven Wang: [00:38:24] I would go to her like, okay. Save the criticism for later because I know you'll give it to me. I don't even need to ask, but you'll tell me what's wrong.    I was like, mom, I literally just. Got broken up with don't don't criticize me or the acts. Just tell me that I'm okay.

[00:38:45] Right, bye. But again, that that's her, right, but that's where I branched out a little bit. And Andrew was one of the people that I went to. Um, thankfully I am still here. Right? Like, you know, I'm in another relationship, I'm very happy and healthy relationships. So yeah. No, 

[00:39:01] Angie Yu: [00:39:01] I think it's really good that you're able to embrace that sensitive side of you because I think there's so much stigma against like Jews.

[00:39:08] I actually remember, I think you felt a little bit bad that you kept coming to me for like random breakup advice. And I was like, Oh, like, don't worry about it. And you're like, yeah, like, you know, , my guy friends, they just tell me to go to raves with them universal solution.

[00:39:26] And you're like, yeah. And like, I don't really want to talk to them about this stuff  And in that moment, I didn't say anything, but that really made me think is it difficult for straight men to find these emotional support outlets outside of their usual male circles?

[00:39:42]   Calven Wang: [00:39:42] I think I've experienced both sides. It really depends on your friends. Right? Like I have a group of guys. That, you know, I could go to and they will still have that. You know, it's not to say that these guys that I was mentioning, they're not bad. Right. They still were emotionally like helpful for me.

[00:40:02] Right. Like they made me, like, we had a group chat and they like, you know, pumping me up. Right. But in the end, like their solutions, weren't some, wasn't what I wanted. Meaning like I didn't. And do they want to sub or forget about. Like my ex yeah. With those, you know, I guess I guess methods.

[00:40:21] so I don't think it's men having issues with that. It's more or less the people that you really surround yourself with and what that environment is like, because in the end for me, you know, when I went through my second breakup, I still had a group of guard friends. So I went to, I was like, I had to call and be like, Bro, this is what happened and they're just like, yo, your cable.

[00:40:44] Do you want to talk it out? All that kind of stuff. Right. So you can't really say that, you know, it was just meant it's just really your environment. 

[00:40:52]Angie Yu: [00:40:52] I like that. Yeah. Like we can just put a blanket statement on all guys in general, don't talk about their feelings because I would just be stereotyping.

[00:41:00] Calven Wang: [00:41:00] Yeah. Cause just imagine this, right. Like if you really want to events something to somebody, but that recipient was just like, ah, it's not a big deal pocket. Like we've been through this before. It's no joke. Like don't be a bitch.  Right? Like it's not really about. Not being able to rest yourself, it's more or less.

[00:41:21] Okay. Well, your friends aren't really helping solve that issue so I can actively, you know, I don't feel comfortable with in my friend circle, whether it be a girl. Right to really let that out. Right. Cause who's to say like, you know, I could go to a female and be like, they could just say the same thing.

[00:41:41]Angie Yu: [00:41:41] Don't be a bitch.

[00:41:42]      Calven Wang: [00:41:47] But it's not, again, that's still a generalization, right? Like I'm fortunate enough to have, you know, many, like. Uh, friends that I can go to. Right. Like, you know, if I really want to have like, have a fun time, I'll say, well, how about this certain group of friends that I hang out with? Right. I have a golf group.

[00:42:03] I have like my work friends, you know, like there's different groups out there, but you know, I'm fortunate to have such a wide range of friends, whereas people out there, they might not have like a really big friend circle and that's okay. Right. But you know, when, when that happens, it's, it's hard. To express yourself.

[00:42:21] Yes. Your group of friends.  won't really help y'all in the situation that you want it to be. 

[00:42:27]Angie Yu: [00:42:27] Yeah, I think Christina and I were just talking about this yesterday.      I was kind of  down in the dumps yesterday and, um, in her advice was. It's better to go to more people with your shit and like spread a thin, then dumping all your shit on like a few people.

[00:42:45]  So I said  cast your net a little bit wider. instead of amping all your load in just a few people, spread out your load with a bunch of different people. And that way, you might not,  feel guilty for burdening your friends. Cause regardless of it is the burden or not, that's not for you to decide, but  you might feel it when you have that load and you're unloading it and you're like, shit, I don't want to keep going back to the same person over and over.

[00:43:09]And when people feel that, then they end up not talking to anyone at all. Which is not healthy for anybody. So then my advice when I was chatting with Andrew, was that okay? Well, if you do feel guilty for being a burden, then  still unload, but  just spread it, spread it out a little bit to a whole bunch of people, rather than a whole bunch to a few people.

[00:43:29]If you have that privilege, 

[00:43:30]Calven Wang: [00:43:30] I think, yeah. At the end of the day, everyone has, you know, a network of people. Like they, they might not be your best friend at all. Right. But there's still someone that you had a connection with, good enough so that you either follow them on Instagram or like friended them on Facebook.

[00:43:48]Right? Like there's still that no rapport between you two. Right. And you know, I feel like a lot of people are very receptive.  Now, if you're actually down in the dumps and you randomly message someone like, I would say 90% of them they'll be like, okay, like, what's wrong? Cause you've never messaged me. And I would, I would hope, and I do think this, like if someone were to message you randomly and be like, Hey, like I just want your opinion on, what do you think about this?

[00:44:19] I would, I would say if, if your friends and you had some sort of connection with them, most likely they will be there to listen. Right. And it's okay if they don't, you still have like, you know, hundreds of other followers or, you know, people that you follow that you can reach out to. Right. 

[00:44:36]Angie Yu: [00:44:36] I totally agree.

[00:44:37]And even if they don't, you still have that opportunity to like, say something, you you've said your piece, most people, at least I would think would be there to support you because I like to believe that most people in the world are kind. And if someone reaches out to you  being vulnerable, regardless if you're close or not, someone's being vulnerable and you immediately feel the need to want to support them.

[00:45:02]You guys make very good points.

[00:45:03]  I know you mentioned, um, you know, reaching out to some of your friends and sometimes they don't give you the advice that you might be looking for, the support and the love,    not necessarily actionable advice. Do you find that a lot of your friends guy or girls would come to you for relationships or just to talk it out?

[00:45:27]Calven Wang: [00:45:27] I think, yes. I think, I don't know if this is a thing, but when I was single, like, even before our relationship, like before my first relationship, I was kind of that guy that would listen to people give active advice, going back and thinking about that. Holy shit. I don't know why.

[00:45:47] Right. Um, but yeah, throughout my relationships. Yeah. I guess, I guess, you know, um, through my friends, they thought, you know, all my relationships  I was happy. Right. Um, and I did have many friends kind of come up to me who were single and were just like, Hey. How did you do, how, how did you do it?

[00:46:04]What's your secret? Right. And I w I got that time. I don't know what knowledge I blessed them with. Right?

[00:46:11] Like the number one thing is just don't. No sugar, not sure. I'm sorry. Don't show your cool yourself. Meaning don't act a certain way just to meet someone like you, because in the end that's going to be a very shitty process. Right. Um, and it's actively not seeking for something because in the annual it'll just come, right.

[00:46:33]Uh, the more you force it. It's going to be very unnatural. Right. Um, but yeah, I guess I was that to go to for advice. And I did, you know, listen to various issues that people were going through. I, a couple of friends that, you know, how to Rocky point in their relationships, which I kind of sat there. And well, you might be a little crazy for thinking that I said that I was like, bro.

[00:47:01]Relax a little crazy. They're like, I don't think that's what he or she did and they'll go, okay, fine.  Yeah. Most of that, I think based off of, not obviously not through my singular advice. Right. But they're, they're still together and most of them are right. Um,

[00:47:18]Angie Yu: [00:47:18] yeah. I have noticed that too. Like when. I was in a relationship. I also went to single people for advice, because I feel like they're not as biased. Like they can provide more non sugarcoated advice because they're not so blinded by domestication,

[00:47:33]    like cattle. It's like, you know what I mean? Like they're not so. Blinded by not blinded. That's not a good word. I'm also saying that now because I'm not blinded, but single people definitely have a different perspective on life. A little, I think because they're so focused on themselves. you're in a relationship and you go to a single person for advice, they can provide that valuable advice.

[00:48:00]From the perspective of someone who's really focused on themselves. A lot of times, issues and relationships can be solved by like, you know, focused on yourself.

[00:48:08]I love it. I feel like this is a good way to wrap up our episode today.  we talked all about failures how failure is inevitable in the first time, the first few times, the first many times you go through it kind of feel pretty crappy, but the more that you fall down, the more  you learn, you know what it's okay.

[00:48:25]We fuck up. Everybody fucks up. That's just part of life.  

[00:48:28] Calven Wang: [00:48:28] Yeah. I think everyone will have a role model in their life. Right. And you would kind of imagine yourself thinking, Oh, I want to be this person. Right. But that specific person, whoever, it may be soccer player, you know, musicians 

[00:48:42]Angie Yu: [00:48:42] am Kardashians.

[00:48:45] Calven Wang: [00:48:45] He didn't go through shit. That's a pipe dream, right? Like everybody went through some sort of absolute shit show  to get to the point where they are to be, you know, someone that you either love. Right. So, you know, at that end, if you want to be successful, where if you, you know, it's not about being successful, but you want to improve.

[00:49:06]Right. And you have this figure that you look up to and be a little more kind towards yourself and be like, Hey, it's okay. No, like they probably went through it too. But at the end, at the end of the day, it's more or less bookie. What am I really going to do about this? Is this something that will just let me know, stay who I am, who I am today?

[00:49:26] Or am I going to do something for it? And I think that's the major thing that a lot of people should be doing rather than just staying in this pop off. Well, I don't want to make a mistake ever 

[00:49:37] Angie Yu: [00:49:37] again. Hmm. Yeah. Rather than fearing the failure, embrace the failure 

[00:49:42]

[00:49:42]  it sounded like this whole conversation. You have a great relationship with your mom. More or less you ask it for hugs, which is great.

[00:49:53]is there something that you have never told your mom before?

[00:49:56]Shit that you don't tell mom?

[00:49:59]I 

[00:49:59] Calven Wang: [00:49:59] think there were many things. I didn't tell him my mom at that point in time. But most likely I will see any fucked up shit I did in the past. She either found out or I kind of said, Hey, this is what happened. As of right now, I would say that my mom will know mostly everything. I think. So 

[00:50:22] Angie Yu: [00:50:23] that's a really good relationship. 

[00:50:25]Calven Wang: [00:50:25] There's definitely Rocky points, right? I'm a very, you know, um, not hardheaded person, but I come with. Very factual points. But sometimes my Asian mom logic does not make, make sense or it's just all about, Nope, this is what I know.

[00:50:41] I don't care. I don't care what you say. Right. So there's definitely those Rocky points, but I mean, you know, we make it work. 

[00:50:47] Angie Yu: [00:50:47] It's mom logic.  It is 

[00:50:48] Calven Wang: [00:50:48] not logic.  

[00:50:49] Angie Yu: [00:50:49] Imagine yourself talking to 21 year old Calvin. you can say one thing to 21 year old, Calvin, what would you say to 

[00:50:56] Calven Wang: [00:50:56] him?

[00:50:57]You have issues.    You have issues, identify your weaknesses and within the next couple of weeks, or like give yourself a timeline to better yourself. 

[00:51:10]Angie Yu: [00:51:10] Thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom with us tonight.  I know. Thank you. Um, I feel like I'm seeing a new side, cause I always saw him as like, Oh, Kelvin, like, you know, and now I'm like, you're so grown  and I know, I know I need to come to you for advice.

[00:51:25]  Awesome. Well, there you have it. 

[00:51:29]