22. Social Justice with Your Asian Parents ft. Irving Chong (Asians in Space)

Irving Chong from Asians in Space joins us to share his experience growing up in Alberta, Canada as one of the few Asian kids in the neighbourhood. We discuss what a “rotten banana” is, growing up inside a bubble, shaming people in “doing the right thing”, and how we can talk about social justice with our Chinese parents.

Highlights:

• What does it mean to be an Asian Canadian Millennial? 
• Growing up as a Chinese Kid who loved Black culture in a White conservative city
• What is the role of social media activism?
• Angie feeling ashamed of liking hip hop music 
• How the Chinese cultural revolution affects the way we communicate with our parents about social justice 

Takeaways:

• Culture and identity is less about where you are from and more about where you belong
• Be curious about why someone else might think differently from you 
• It takes multiple conversations to get through the cultural, generational, (and maybe language) barriers 
• Bring kindness, compassion, and patience into any conversation
• The point isn’t for your parents to agree, it’s for your parents to understand your perspectives and for you to see theirs too

Resources:

• Asians in Space (Podcast)
• The Asn Canadian (Instagram)
• Fresh Off The Boat by Eddie Huang (Book)
• For the Culture by Irving Chong (Paper on What it means to be an Asian Canadian Millennial)
• Unlocking Us: Shame & Accountability by Brene Brown (Podcast)

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Transcript

Irving Chong: 0:00

So I think with my mom, she's still very much thinks and feels about social justice as a very person, to person interactions, as opposed to systemic thing. But I also can't be like, no, mom, we need to tear everything down because I know her response will be okay, what comes after And like, she'll expect me to have an answer for her, which is ridiculous because no one person's. Can solve all of the injustice in the world.

Kristy Yee: 0:48

Welcome back to another episode of shit. We don't tell mom today. We have our friend Irving, we have been big fans of his podcast at Asians in space, as well as his Instagram. I know Andrew follows his Instagram religiously.

Angie Yu: 1:05

You make me sound like a little bit creepy there, but yeah, I think I saw your. Instagram last year. You posted something about, a bunch of dudes in Vancouver who dressed up as geishas

Irving Chong: 1:18

for the rugby sevens.

Angie Yu: 1:20

Yeah. And a friend sent it to me. And that's when I kind of started following your page,

Kristy Yee: 1:25

this is before our podcast even existed, the idea of our podcast didn't exist and Angie's been, been following your work. So Irving, if you want to. Give yourself a little bit of an introduction and maybe tell our listeners what your podcast is about and what your Instagram page is all about.

Irving Chong: 1:42

so the Instagram page came first. It's called the Asian Canadian because somehow that's. Is a free domain name. Well, not anymore because I have it. Oh,

Angie Yu: 1:50

no. I'm so surprised

Kristy Yee: 1:52

that that's like so readily available. That's

Irving Chong: 1:55

that itself speaks a lot. Yeah. I think I've had this page now for a couple of years. The reason I started it was because I read Eddie Huang's two books fresh off the boat and then double cup of love and I was like, these are great. I wish these were around when I was 12. And I was like, is there a Canadian version of this kind of thing? So I like just Googled like the Asian Canadian and it wasn't. So it, took a while for me to like figure out what the page was going to be in its current form, but that was like the Genesis of it now. And now it's basically a one stop shop for social justice things, not just in regards to Asians and the Asian diaspora, but other marginalized communities where we get so much. Of our info from which is basically indigenous and black folks. So, and then Asians in space was another extension of that, which basically was like, how can we explore these grand ideas that people may not have the language for, but people's like personal experiences. Already tie into it, whether they realize it or not. And it was basically an idea of building our own connective tissue and connective history for people's own personal stories and lived experiences to make. I don't know, a fabric, a more concrete fabric of like millennial, Asian, Canadian history, I guess.

Kristy Yee: 3:13

I love it. It's like, you're, you're making this, what are they called? Those quilts, you know, with all the little squares

Angie Yu: 3:22

and you're just quilt.

Kristy Yee: 3:26

And you're just tying like all,

Angie Yu: 3:28

you know,

Kristy Yee: 3:29

different people's stories together with what their, what their own definition of what it's like to grow up in Canada as an Asian person.

Irving Chong: 3:37

Yeah.

Angie Yu: 3:38

fresh off the boat. That was the Genesis of my interest in being an Asian American slash Asian Canadian as well. Like that book was very eyeopening for me. and I think it was eye-opening for some of my friends as well. everyone who read that book was kind of blown away really by a lot of things that Eddie Huang had to say about what it's like being quote unquote, a model minority here in the U S and in Canada and how there's no matter how, why adjacent we are. There's always that bamboo ceiling. And it was really when he talked about that. And at the time I was kind of. Struggling a little bit. I work as well with the whole bamboo ceiling situation and not feeling like being able to be myself at work. and reading that book was just, yeah, for me, it was like, boom, like, this is what's missing. So I relate very, very much to what you said about reading his work and then just being like, where is that space for us?

Irving Chong: 4:27

Yeah, I know for me it was the first time I'd be like, Seeing someone describe themselves as a rotten banana and like any form of media, but like, Oh, I've been called that before.

Angie Yu: 4:37

Have you been called rotten banana before?

Kristy Yee: 4:40

Wow, that's more.

Irving Chong: 4:42

Okay. So I grew up in Calgary, like born and went through high school on there and. I don't know, basketball has always like, been a big part of my life, but like growing up in Calgary in the nineties, it wasn't a thing really. So people just assumed that I was trying to be black because I put as well.

Kristy Yee: 5:02

Oh my gosh. okay. So I haven't read this book. for all of the listeners and myself who haven't read the book, could you tell us a little bit more about what the book is about and, and the experiences from that? Because it seems like for the, both of you Angie and Irving, it had an impact.

Irving Chong: 5:17

So it's a memoir and it's about Eddie talking about what it was like growing up as a Chinese Taiwanese American. First being born in the DMV and then his dad just deciding to move to Orlando, to open up a set of restaurants and then his experiences of growing up in like white Orlando, suburbia as a Chinese Taiwanese kid. And basically his life story from that point on up until when he opened Bauhaus. New York.

Angie Yu: 5:48

Yeah. He goes into what it was like being an Asian American and also for hip hop basketball. and I guess just culture. and for himself, there was no other Asian kids really. Right. And he related more to the black culture growing up in the U S than the white culture. Because that's like the underdog culture. and that's why he related it to more than the white culture. And he used to be made fun of. Like, Oh, who are you trying to be? Here's this Asian kid who's really into black culture, but to him, it was like the relating to the black culture of, you know, trying to come up in this world, built for white men and trying to be who you are and trying to fight your stereotypes, et cetera, et cetera. That's why he related so much to black culture And for me actually Chrissy and I went to the same high school, but we went to an East fence school, which here in Vancouver and it's got some reputations there's, there's a lot of gang activity and stuff like that. But I would say the school is like 80% Asian. It's pretty much like 90% immigrants. And for me, I grew up listening to hip hop as well. And that's where my identity lies. I love hip hop and now I listen to like alternative hip hop and people are like, what the fuck is that? but when I read his book, I was also like, Oh shit, I can actually be proud of the fact that I listened to hip hop instead of trying to hide it, because, you know, I'm just like, Asian girl driving down Kingsway, and then I'm blasting hip hop from my car to the point where like people roll down their windows. I red lights to share their music. I roll up my windows. Cause I'm like, I don't want people to be like, who the fuck does this girl thinks she is?

Irving Chong: 7:23

which, which in itself is a problem. Right? Cause like what's wrong with doing that,

Angie Yu: 7:27

right. Exactly. So when I read his book, I, it was almost like validation. Like it's okay for an Asian person to enjoy black culture, especially if you grew up here in Canada or the U S because for a lot of us, it's just like, Austria just relate so hard

Irving Chong: 7:43

and like, let's keep it, like, let's keep it funky. Like by culture sets the culture in the Western world. Even if black people don't get. So most like material rewards for doing so.

Angie Yu: 7:54

Mm. Yeah. I asked my friend this, I was like, what would America be like without black culture? And he's like,

Irving Chong: 8:01

Oh, Canada would be like,

Angie Yu: 8:03

yeah, let's go with North America. Like where, or even the UK, like black culture is huge in the UK as well. Like what would it be like without black culture? He's like

Irving Chong: 8:11

There'll be no music.

Angie Yu: 8:15

Hmm. not making fun of Austria. I actually love Austria. Yeah. It's great. But it's like, you know, it's Austria and I was like, damn. Yeah, like this book, we'll definitely link in our show notes. very eye-opening for a lot of people who have read the book. He's kind of like the, I don't know what the equivalent would be, but. He was definitely the first in our community, especially in our generation to really be like, rah, rah. I'm proud to be Asian. I am proud to be enthusiasm for black culture. I'm here and I'm not going to be quiet.

Irving Chong: 8:44

Yeah. I would say like my favorite thing was the book. He definitely like Eddie. Wong's a smart dude, very smart dudes. He went to law schools in addition, before he opened Bauhaus and before he had. His TV show Huang's world and all of the other things he's doing right now, but he made it like his goal to write the book and to present himself through his everyday, his own everyday language. And he thought it was important that he didn't need to quote unquote like clean himself up for like a wider audience. I'm sure we all know what that means.

Kristy Yee: 9:16

What does that mean to you? RB?

Irving Chong: 9:18

Oh, keep using him examples. So the show fresh off the boat is based off of his memoir, except he asked all of his involvement with it after they tried to make it a white sitcom with yellow faces and basically ABC was like, yo, this is like, the show is still based off your book, but maybe don't come to the meetings anymore. So like after the pilot episode, basically at his involvement with fresh off the boat, even though it's technically a dramatization of his, like growing up in his, in Orlando he's has no involvement in it. Because he wanted the show to Brockville flight, hip Parker, parts of like his childhood, which involves like domestic violence, which it's a heavy topic. And with syndicated, like say common ABC where shows need to be like wrapped up in 22 minutes and everything's hunky Dory that wasn't possible, even though he wanted like, Sure. He's like you, we can do all that, but I also want a sense of like, Oh, things aren't always solved like this, because this is what real life is. Yeah,

Kristy Yee: 10:22

They're only showing the one side, like a very Disney version.

Angie Yu: 10:26

Oh yeah. It's very ABC. I watched first couple of seasons mostly for like solidarity and also at the time I really enjoy constant Woo's role on the show and And I after having read his book and watching the show, it's like completely different. It's not, you don't even remember that it's Eddie Hong's life, except for the fact that it's all of his brothers names it's very different. It's very whitewashed. It's very play down and you don't really get a sense of his struggle at all from the show. it's very suburbian. Like you, you watch the show and you're just like, Okay. So they talk about things like not using the dishwasher and they talk about things like bringing leftovers to school, but those are so minor compared to the real struggles of what it's like to actually grow up, being marginalized and actually grow up, having being typecast by everyone around you. Like

Irving Chong: 11:13

it's.

Angie Yu: 11:13

That's all gone. So you can't, you can not get that from that show

Kristy Yee: 11:16

that's such a shame because that's where all the juicy things come in, I think is when we showcase things that we don't normally showcase. Right. The darker side of stories.

Angie Yu: 11:29

I'm going to real, real back our conversation a little bit, because I want, I do want to introduce you a little bit more to our listeners as well. and you, you know, like, You're here in Vancouver

Irving Chong: 11:41

I lived in the lower mainland now for the past, like decades now. Yeah.

Angie Yu: 11:46

And how was that transition from Calgary to here?

Irving Chong: 11:49

I mean, I know the rest of Canada views Vancouver and like the lower mainland as This bastion of progressiveness or like, liberalness. And that's like, yeah, sure. Just of cities are greener here than my other parts of North America doesn't mean that racism doesn't exist here as well. But like you two are saying about your high school experience about going to a school it's like 90%, no white people. that was never a thing for me. And if I have the choice, I'd never want to move back to Calgary.

Angie Yu: 12:21

I'm sorry to hear that.

Irving Chong: 12:24

Yeah, no, it's okay. Like the way I described when people ask me, like, Like, where am I from or where my family is from. I tell people about like my parents and my brother. They're in Calgary, but my friends in like chosen family, they're all here.

Kristy Yee: 12:35

Yeah. Chosen family.

Angie Yu: 12:37

I really, I find it really interesting. You said that I guess you had this idea that Vancouver would be a lot more liberal and more progressive than Calgary. And I guess in some ways it is, it's like, it's

Irving Chong: 12:47

like Alberta is a conservative province. there's nothing around it. It's like, look at any measurable metrics that you want to use. And the NDP, like being in the provincial government power was an exception to like literal decades of conservative, like rule.

Angie Yu: 13:04

Do you think that played a lot into your development into the social justice space?

Irving Chong: 13:10

I'm not sure because if I just like stayed. On the same path as everyone else. I went to high school with this version of me probably wouldn't exist.

Angie Yu: 13:19

Hmm.

Kristy Yee: 13:19

Who do you think you would be if you had stayed in Calgary?

Angie Yu: 13:24

I

Irving Chong: 13:25

mean, there are

Angie Yu: 13:28

still lots of dickheads in Vancouver.

Irving Chong: 13:31

That was a dismissive answer. The real answer probably would be someone who's still trying to find language to describe my own lived experience. And wanting to do better, but not knowing how Would be a better way. Yeah. Right. Would we have more in depth answers than just,

Angie Yu: 13:53

you know,

Kristy Yee: 13:55

there's always this surface level answer and then there's like the, the real answer underneath it. Right.

Irving Chong: 14:00

That's what I'm wondering of them would be like, I would be a dead cat because I wouldn't be able to like, get out of.

Angie Yu: 14:05

That space, right? Like that bubble you've built for yourself.

Irving Chong: 14:08

People are like, how did you survive? Like 10 years of Catholic school grade school in Calgary. The answer was like a lot of necessary internalized racism.

Kristy Yee: 14:16

Mm. Like self-inflicted racism.

Irving Chong: 14:20

No, in order to just survive because there'd be like, I dunno, three other. Asian kids in a class maybe. And like, I don't know. I was captain of the basketball team. I hung out with black kids. I didn't hang out with kids from my school really. So day-to-day like those eight hours day in and day out, I had to find out how to adapt myself to fit in with other people at school. So I'd have people to talk to.

Kristy Yee: 14:42

I feel like so many people have done the same thing as, as a way to protect themselves and also to fit in is to, you know, make fun of yourself so that other people don't end up making fun of you.

Irving Chong: 14:53

It's like, or it's not even like making fun of yourself. It's like what Andrew was saying, like before a vote, like if she's like bumping a song, she really likes to roll up her windows. It's more so like that. And like trying to be invisible. Like being invisible is almost better than standing out.

Kristy Yee: 15:07

Ah, so hiding who you are,

Angie Yu: 15:09

that's right. Being a muted version of yourself so that you can be accepted by your environment, which is in your case was a very white environment that you didn't relate to.

Irving Chong: 15:18

Yeah, because the way I describe it now, like if people ask me, how was it growing with Calgary? Like I'd say it was like nice. And it was fine, then it was okay. And like the more distance I have from that, it's more so like, Oh, just. Not just like the less okay. It becomes more apparent how less, how not. Okay. It was.

Angie Yu: 15:34

That's, you know, that's really interesting because For a lot of us who grew up in, you know, Asian bubbles, it can be hard for us to. understand more, really reflect on our privilege. Like we were really privileged to be surrounded by people who look like us and yeah, like people, there was still a lot of racism. There was bullying a lot of microaggressions, but at the end of the day, we have backup. Like, if somebody made fun of my friends lunch, I'd be like, well, fuck off. Yeah, somebody was still make fun of your lunch, but then your friends will be like, fuck you.

Irving Chong: 16:00

Sometimes. Like it's easy to forget just how in it you are when you're actually in grade school. And like now, like with distance is like, Oh, that's such a small part of my life. But when you're going through it, That's your entire world. It's a disservice to grade school kids to try and tell them that like none of this whole matter. when you, yourself are past that point in your life and don't need to. Be in junior high,

Kristy Yee: 16:28

because when you're, like you said, when you're in the thick of it, that's, that's your whole world, when you're in high school, that is your whole fucking world. You don't know anything else. So all of that shit is important when people think of you is important trying to find yourself as you're, you know, in your teenage years. Yeah. That's important. What would you say, growing up in Calgary was one of the most difficult parts of your

Angie Yu: 16:49

childhood.

Irving Chong: 16:49

I don't know. It would've been like cool if other people at my school, like basketball as much as I do, or it was just how I don't know what you guys do on the weekends, but I know like, I'd go for like dim sum with my family every weekend, which was great. Cause dim sum is the best meal, ever created, but no one else had that experience. So when someone's asking me what I did on the weekend, I couldn't really say that cause they would have no idea what I was talking about.

Kristy Yee: 17:14

Would there be any shame in, talking about Chinese customs and Chinese culture with your friends, or is it something that you wanted to hide? Because.

Irving Chong: 17:23

No. Cause I feel like my parents didn't really have too many cultural, like touchstones or practices, obviously like the big ones, like Chinese new year but actual like traditional things, not really. I guess another thing was like, I think in junior high, as when my dad like introduced me to Bruce Lee movies I was like, I don't know, 12. So Bruce Lee is like, God.

Kristy Yee: 17:46

Yeah, makes sense.

Irving Chong: 17:50

I'd have like white friends come over and like, I'd want them to like watch Bruce Lee movies with me and like they didn't take it was

Angie Yu: 17:56

cool.

Irving Chong: 17:57

I got it. Just fine. But also, it was like, Oh, this was the one cool, Chinese person.

Angie Yu: 18:04

It makes you feel lonely. Right. Because you're surrounded by these friends and this is something you absolutely love, but they don't really take an interest in it and it can make you feel very isolated and very alienated. So I understand that. to be honest, even though I grew up in an Asian bubble I would say that I grew up with mostly Cantonese and CBC kids. Like Christie, basically. So for me, like as somebody who was born in China and who moved here halfway through her childhood, I still had a lot of things that I missed from my Homeland. Like things that would kind of come up and I didn't really have anybody to talk about it because most of my circles were like Hong Kong Cantonese like even you guys like going to dim sum my family didn't do that. Like dim sum's not really part of our traditions. Right. and I think one of the things about living in a bubble, any type of bubble. So for you, Irving, that was living in like a, a white bubble white suburbian bubble. And for me, it was living in like a very. Concentrate a Cantonese Hong Kong bubble is a, you can, you do have those internalized So for yourself as internalized racism and for myself, I don't even know what color, like internalized, regional, all of them, like it's so specific. Right. But I really get it that like feeling of loneliness that you felt and I'm glad, I'm glad that you settled in Vancouver and that you're, you're able to identify those Kind of those feelings and kind of reconcile your identity some more. do you find that running this Instagram page, the Asian Canadian, do you find that it over consumes you a lot? Like, because I know a lot of the content is always, you know, it's very raw and like, how do you balance your own mental health?

Irving Chong: 19:39

I feel like since I'm spend 27 hours a day on social media I've been very good at one. I'm not someone who follows, like everything. Like I'm not on Reddit. I'm not on any message boards. I'm not on a forums just cause I'm like it does that. Doesn't interest me. It's having people basically make noise. And I feel like for my social media feeds, they are. Curated to the point where I know that if someone tweets out something or an article or a story that it's not wrong, or it's not bullshit or whatever. And honestly, some days if I scroll like on Twitter for a minute, and I'm just like, Oh, it's a dumpster fire today. I'm like, I'm off Twitter for the entire day. and other thing is. I have a rule that if I'm going to post something on my Asian Canadian page. I need to be able to say something about it myself, whether it's a joke or when he caption a larger idea of like, how I'm feeling or how it relates to something else. But if I can't think of anything to say, then I won't post it. I also have the privilege of being a guy on the internet. So I don't deal with like any trolls, too much to any of my posts. Like a common thing that happens is I'll post something. One of my friends will shared who's a woman or a female or women identify. And then a guy will like go into their DMS complaining about like something I posted. Wow. Yeah. Two of the person that shared it.

Kristy Yee: 21:05

Oh, okay. Okay. So it's like what you shared people and then someone else, like a friend of yours found it. Interesting.

Irving Chong: 21:13

Valuable,

Kristy Yee: 21:14

reshared it? Yeah, reshared

Angie Yu: 21:17

it. And because

Kristy Yee: 21:17

they're a female or a person who identifies as a female, they got trolled on.

Irving Chong: 21:23

Yeah, but

Kristy Yee: 21:23

you, as the original creator, didn't get trolled on.

Irving Chong: 21:27

Like no one says anything to me, like really? Wow.

Angie Yu: 21:30

So like take your credibility for it.

Irving Chong: 21:33

Or like, I'm also I'm like, you know, like being like semi anonymous on the internet, it's like a nice thing. I say that as someone who does have a podcast and does like post writing and stuff, but like still on. Yeah. So that's definitely a benefit for myself, even though, like, I wish idiots would just like write down whatever they wanted to say to other people and just throw it into the sun, but, you know, whatever,

Kristy Yee: 21:56

I feel like just hearing this story, it sounds like. If the messaging, no matter what the messaging is, you put a man's name on it, and then you put the same message, but you put a woman's name on it. The way that the message gets interpreted is different. It's kind of like that whole, you know, Harvard study with the resume thing. Right? Yeah. And that's so

Angie Yu: 22:19

fucked. Oh yeah. Like we're, we're going to manage to bring the patriarchy into every episode.

Irving Chong: 22:26

That's like one of the main tools to oppress. I don't know. People,

Angie Yu: 22:30

one gets oppressed mango press. Like I think some people think that when women or anybody. Anybody is fighting the patriarchy. They're like, Oh, you're trying to fight me. I'm like, but you are oppressed too. Like it's a system.

Irving Chong: 22:44

I will say this one thing about the patriarchy, the patriarchy in itself as a problem is like a men's issue because all of these like rights and things like equal pay that women are fighting for. Who do you think installed those in the first place?

Angie Yu: 22:58

Yeah. So they are like, some men are protecting what has already been put in place for them. but like, what I mean is like, it affects everybody. Even if these men don't think it affects them, they're like, Oh, I'm protecting something, but they're actually, they don't think about what they're losing out on.

Irving Chong: 23:13

No, they're, they're protecting their proximity. Or like their very real privilege that they get from these things. And they'd rather not give that up They're not sure what else could happen. So they'd rather just stay with what's safe. That's right.

Angie Yu: 23:26

Yeah. It's a, it's people are reluctant to change and everything.

Kristy Yee: 23:29

Well, it's uncomfortable when there's change involved

Angie Yu: 23:32

or uncomfortable shit. Yeah. tell us a little bit more about your podcast.

Irving Chong: 23:36

So I started publishing episodes in January. and I'm pretty sure every episode so far, except for one has had been a woman or a non-binary person on the podcast, just because the podcast is all just me. So basically I was just like, there's so many podcasts where it's just dudes talking.

Angie Yu: 23:57

Yeah. Some of the ones, most of, most of the ones I listened to other, you know,

Irving Chong: 24:02

dudes talking, I listened to a ton of podcasts and a lot of them are just. Bros being bros. And it's just like, okay, I can't have my podcast to be lab.

Angie Yu: 24:11

Yeah. We don't need another bros being bros podcast. Right.

Kristy Yee: 24:16

I want to say, I think there's nothing wrong with bros being bros type podcast. Just like, I don't think there's anything wrong with having like a family sitcom, but I also feel like there just needs to be more diversity that's right. Different place for different things.

Irving Chong: 24:31

I, I didn't want to add to the pile of men already in the podcast world is how

Kristy Yee: 24:37

you want to diversify the podcast library

Angie Yu: 24:39

by the chickens. Yeah.

Irving Chong: 24:40

Yeah. So as a rule for myself, I like it's changed because of the pandemic by whatever that I'd have people on who'd I'd never like. Really hung out with or friends with before. So I think for the first 13 episodes, I had only had like one good friend on, but everyone else, I was like the first time, like we'd been in the same room together, just like the two of us or, yeah.

Angie Yu: 25:01

And where do you get your creativity from? Like your inspiration?

Irving Chong: 25:04

Good question. I've been listening to podcast since like 2007, so I don't loud for, for like a lot. Yeah.

Angie Yu: 25:11

I didn't even know we have podcasts that like that long ago. Cause that was the only one, like the night, like iPhones came out, right. Like in

Irving Chong: 25:17

2000. So before I listen to them on my desktop or on my laptops. Wow. And like they'd have a media player. For the thing that you like I'd have to go to like the website. And then it's like, it's like play and then it's like, yeah, download. Yeah.

Angie Yu: 25:35

But it's a little podcast history for our audience.

Irving Chong: 25:39

So I always knew at some point I'd probably want to do a podcast, but I was unsure what I'd want to talk about, just because sure. I could talk about things I'm interested in, but. There's already podcasts. All of those things add, like they've been going on for like so long and their grades they're established and they're wonderful. And I firstly like listened to them and I'm just like, I could never do this,

Kristy Yee: 26:01

but I want to point out that's a limiting belief. But I think if it doesn't speak to you, like if you're not like, Ooh, you know, that's. That's where I can feel the, the juices flowing and I get really hyped and pumped about it. Like, it sounds like you would rather be the listener for those types of podcasts instead of the podcaster.

Irving Chong: 26:20

Like I can talk to my friends about what they say on like those podcasts. I've I don't personally need to do my own podcast and just regurgitate ideas or things that other people who. Have careers built on the things that they talked about. Right. So basically I took a like upper level history class that was history of Eastern South Asians and in Canada class. like the main project I had to do. a field study where I had to interview I don't know, three to six people about whatever topic you wanted it to be. So I went ambitious with my paper and wanted to like, define what is in Canadian, millennial culture. Like, what is it basically? So I interviewed like four or five of my friends And then I wrote the paper it's up on my medium page still. It's called For the culture. It's like an half an hour rate. I put a lot of work into it, but basically, yeah, it's not as a one. Like if you, if you read it all through in one setting, like last year

Kristy Yee: 27:17

we will link it in the show notes.

Angie Yu: 27:19

And what is the conclusion? What is being an Asian Canadian

Irving Chong: 27:23

millennial? One of the takeaways or like main ideas of it was like this idea of what belonging actually means. And maybe belonging is like less where you're from and more so where you belong.

Angie Yu: 27:37

Ah,

Kristy Yee: 27:38

that's going to be your takeaway for

Irving Chong: 27:40

this episode. Yeah. So culture is less about where you're from and more about where you belong. So like one of the examples I used, I can't remember if I used it in the paper. I definitely used it in the presentation. was ideas around Chinese North American food. So like things like ginger beef, which was invented in Calgary, allegedly. Or like general Tso's chicken or like beef and broccoli, quite things you can add, like fortune walk or like Panda express or whatever. And it was just like, okay. These like Chinese chefs came over to a new like continent basically, and had to figure out how to. Survive with these restaurants serving like this like new and like foreign food to a mainly white audience. And then it was like, okay, I need to adjust. Not only the tastes but also the ingredients I have at my disposal to basically invent something new. And in a way I was like, Oh, this is what like Canadian born, Asian kids are really?

Angie Yu: 28:35

Yup. Yup.

Kristy Yee: 28:36

I always like to think that the Asian American, Asian Canadian folks who are part of the Asian diaspora where our own special cohort, you know, and I think that's what bonds us all across the world is that

Angie Yu: 28:50

we are.

Kristy Yee: 28:51

The ginger beef,

Irving Chong: 28:52

I'm sure our parents look at us sometimes and think that,

Angie Yu: 28:56

yeah, yeah. Especially when we fuck up our Chinese, like I always fuck up a Chinese phrases and my parents would just like have the time of their life. They still make fun of me for something I said when I was nine.

Irving Chong: 29:08

I don't know if you guys have said this on the pod before, but Asian parents remember every single part. I was like your life and we'll hold every single part of your life against you for like the rest of your life.

Angie Yu: 29:20

Yes. They have like a little filing cabinet inside their head.

Irving Chong: 29:23

They forgot to, they lost like their keys once. So I have to ask them if they have their keys, like every time for the rest of their life. Yeah.

Angie Yu: 29:32

Yup. Why is this so universal? Why is this such a universal Asian parent thing? Like

Kristy Yee: 29:37

maybe it's the way that they were brought up also. So that's like the only way that they know how to parent is to mimic How they had been parented. Right.

Irving Chong: 29:44

Does

Angie Yu: 29:44

your mom know about what you do? like your passion

Irving Chong: 29:47

projects? Oh yeah. Like she listens to every podcast. She reads everything. I write, she watches all of my Instagram stories, which is weird. Cause she doesn't actually follow me on Instagram. Yeah.

Angie Yu: 30:02

Oh my God. That's so funny.

Irving Chong: 30:04

like when you guys were like, Oh yeah, we haven't told bikes. Your parents about your, the podcast you're doing and stuff yet. That was just like, so mind boggling to me just cause I'm like, I'm pretty sure my mom has like me on Google alert

Angie Yu: 30:17

oh yeah. Like my mom reads everything I write on

Irving Chong: 30:19

medium.

Angie Yu: 30:20

that's for sure. and she shares it with her, like classmates back in China.

Irving Chong: 30:24

That's cute.

Angie Yu: 30:24

yeah. And I I've been holding off telling her about the podcast because there's some really heavy stuff on here, but I know that once I tell her about my podcast, she's going to listen to it religiously. So I'm giving her a little break before I bombard her with all this crap

Kristy Yee: 30:41

also kind of slowly plant the seeds, but then it doesn't freak her out. My mom knows that Angie and I are doing this podcast and she knows that I have this passion project. She doesn't know exactly what it is about. She doesn't know the name of the podcast because I don't know how to translate it in Cantonese. Oh,

Angie Yu: 31:00

podcasts in Chinese.

Kristy Yee: 31:01

there is a term I Googled I before. Cause I had to explain what a podcast was. So it does exist on Google translate, everybody. And then the only thing she knows about the podcast is that I tell her it's related

Angie Yu: 31:14

to mental health

Kristy Yee: 31:16

and my work about advocating the importance of mental health. So that's all she knows about it.

Irving Chong: 31:22

All right. So my quick point about like translating the idea of podcasts, all podcasts are, is just like, you know, before TVs, when people would sit around the radio and listen to shows, that's all podcasts are. Yeah.

Angie Yu: 31:33

That's true.

Kristy Yee: 31:33

True. Radio shows

Irving Chong: 31:35

the radio show.

Kristy Yee: 31:36

We're not creative. We're just redoing. What has already been

Angie Yu: 31:39

done? Yeah. That's all of human life.

Irving Chong: 31:41

So things I haven't told my mom. I don't know, like what, like, when we were just like talking about before, the idea of just like holding my parents accountable for their unconscious bias and like that learned bias and like how for them, if they want to learn those things, it was a conversation I just don't know how to approach.

Kristy Yee: 32:01

Has it happened at all?

Irving Chong: 32:02

I think the connect exist in that they have a very, and this is not like special to them. It happens with everyone. Just the idea of if they're being like anti indigenous or anti black or like racial stereotyping that. those things are connected to a larger, global capitalists, colonial oppressive system. Then just them being like, Oh, you can't get your hair cut like that, or else no one will hire you.

Angie Yu: 32:33

Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 32:34

So what do you say to

Irving Chong: 32:35

them? for the most part, I just like, let it go. Cause I'm just like, I don't have the, to argue with you okay. About these things. Cause it's a very difficult thing to tell someone much less your parents that like, Oh, actually what you're doing is actually kind of shitty and just, cause I don't know how it is with your parents, but I know with mine. It's like, Oh, if it doesn't directly affect, if they can't see it directly affecting someone, then they just think it's not a big deal. Like, my mom's still surprised that like Asian people are getting like harassed because of the pandemic.

Angie Yu: 33:08

because it doesn't happen to her in her immediate friends.

Irving Chong: 33:10

Yeah, or, yeah, I guess. And I'm just like, mom, like Asian racism has always been a thing. Like the pandemic just gave people an excuse to do it more or in a more like, terrible way. Right.

Angie Yu: 33:22

Yeah, and that can be hard. Isn't it funny? how, because you said your mom like reads your Instagram stories and she looks at your Instagram page and reads your writing. and of course, like all of what you talk about Instagram and social justice. So do you think she reads what you write? And will you share, and is she reading it from the perspective of just like your mom or do you think it does have some effect and some influence

Irving Chong: 33:46

on her? I think it does, but I also think that if I have a conversation cause okay. So my mom was born in Hong Kong. So like with all this stuff, we're trying to end the protests in Hong Kong. She is very, very much like a boomer. anti-China in the idea of like, if it's Chinese it's bad without any nuance to the discussion, which is fine for me, because I know like other friends, they haven't even had like a conversation about what's happening in regards to China and how they are, I don't know, claiming parts of their land that they say, this is the tires, but whatever. because they're just like either their parents don't care or they don't think China's like capable of like such things. So like, in a sense, like that's easier for us to talk about, especially in regards to resistance movements and like how they relate to like, Movements over here and in other parts of the world, but then she's just so much like communism is evil and I have to explain to her like, no, China's like not actually communists. That's just what they claim. But if they kind of fucking capitalist

Angie Yu: 34:45

yeah. Like, come on. and I I'm actually one of those people that like, like, I hate politics. Like not as in like, I hate reading about it, but I just like politics suck. And that's the thing. I try to tell people too, I'm like, look at China, you think it's a one party system? Like, don't be so naive. Even if it's a quote unquote one party system, there's still two sides. Right. And even here, like, yeah, we have a democracy, but really whichever province you live in, it basically comes down to two sides. that's just politics.

Irving Chong: 35:16

So I think with my mom, she's still very much. Thinks and feels about social justice as a very person, to person interactions, as opposed to systemic thing. But I also can't be like, no, mom, we need to tear everything down because I know her response will be okay, what comes after And like, she'll expect me to have an answer for her, which is ridiculous because no one person's. Can solve all of the injustice in the world. And like I say said like, yes, we need to get rid of capitalism because it's exploded, puts profit over people, duh, all those things. But like I'm not in economic, like ideologists, I don't know. What's I'm not going to formulate what comes next. After that happens. Or if it happens if ever, So I feel like if I don't have an answer or something better to present to her, like immediately after I say something's wrong, then the conversation just becomes kind of into a loop.

Angie Yu: 36:10

Yeah. And also like, just from an emotional perspective as well, like. Are boomer parents like your mom from Hong Kong. Christi's mom from Like Canton province. And then my parents from like further up like near Shanghai area, they're all, they were all born into the cultural revolution. So they had a really, really hard life. They injured hunger, they injured, no loss of like family members to battles and Wars and stuff like that. Like, yeah. To them. That's a completely different idea. And what we have now is so much better that they cannot imagine us getting rid of what's in

Irving Chong: 36:42

place. Also, I don't think people in the West especially understand just how big.

Angie Yu: 36:48

Oh, yeah. We talked about this. Christina and I discussed this we equated China to like the game of Thrones universe and we were like, Oh, Hong Kong and people in the South, like in Canton province, you guys are like the sand Spears. Yeah, because you guys are all like merchants. merchant tree, I think is the word. not mercenary. My coworker corrected me on that. And like, I'm like kind of further up where there's like a lot of water and like the high garden area, and then you have Beijing, that's kind of like winter fell and, and then go further up, like beyond the wall and stuff like that.

Irving Chong: 37:25

So that's a good example, but like, I even use like a more real life example where it's like, okay, in Canada, we understand there's a difference between like British Columbia and like new Brunswick, right? Like that's the same in China. there's just not all one, big red sheet ruled over by Beijing, as much as the current government would like you to believe.

Angie Yu: 37:42

Yeah.

Irving Chong: 37:43

But in China, there's this saying? It's basically like the sky is large and the capital is far away. So basically it's like, China's large. It's kind of the sky. And then like Beijing can say whatever it wants. Yeah. But really they can't really enforce. Yeah. Unless like you start out concentration counts and like Uyghur your territories, or if you. Just exile, the Dalai Lama from Tibet, but yeah. And installing your new one, but you know, for the most part,

Angie Yu: 38:12

People govern themselves mostly and you don't want my parents acknowledge that too, because when we talk about things like you know, the difference between what we know and what, like you guys in the South do, they're like, my parents were like, yeah, they do their own thing. Right. And I'm like, Oh, but like, why is it that. Cantonese people retain so much more of their traditional culture than we did. And my mom's like, just because they're further away, they're just further away from Beijing. They were less control by the command economy, by the command, whatever. There were just a lot more de-centralized than us, further up. And I was like, Oh, that actually makes a lot of sense.

Kristy Yee: 39:21

So I want to go back to talking about your mom. whenever I try to talk to my mom about unconscious bias or learned biases, I feel like it's worse than pulling teeth and for my mom, I think it's because. She first off, she doesn't think social justice is worth it. Cause she does. It's not that she doesn't want to believe in a better future. It doesn't want to believe like there's, you know, like not like, she's like, Oh, you know, inequality is a good thing. Now. She just feels like there's no point to it. She's like, this is just how the world is run like, you know, you, you can't change the world. And I'm like, it's true. Like. I can't do it by myself as one person, but me as one person can start to spread the ideology of it and start to spread the message so that the next person can do the same. And then next thing you know, the whole goal is to change the system as a whole. Right. But she doesn't get that. She's like, she's like, Nope, just, this is the way it is. Right. Patriarchy. That's the way it is. I'm like,

Irving Chong: 40:19

I like it's, good that people tell other people that like, you. Everyone has agency and choice, and those things are true. However, we do by ourselves have limits to what we can choose and how much agency we actually have, because it's easy for people to do social justice things. Or it's easier if you don't have to worry about your food security, or if you don't have to worry about like housing security or like, if you don't have a family to take care of, or like a family member who's like dependent on you. Right. So I don't know. I feel like things surrounding, like, I'm gonna just call it like Instagram activism or like social media activism, I'm sure you've all seen it just to be like, I don't know, do it for like an ego boost or just to be seen that you're doing it. So like, it can match up with your like quote unquote brand or whatever. Right. And like, not everyone gets that choice. And I feel like sometimes for immigrant parents, especially like they never had that comfort or like the starting point of that comfort or stability to even think about those things. Cause they're just like so focused on making their lives here and making sure like they don't fall through the cracks. And the way I, I don't think I've told my parents this before, but it's the idea of like, okay, I already have the privilege of stability that my parents had to learn and fight for and work for. So it's like, I can imagine something better than what is currently, and that's no fault of our parents. That's just my privilege of being born on this continent as opposed to. Coming over here in like my twenties to go to university,

Kristy Yee: 41:52

Yeah. Good point like a big part of, I think immigrant parents, when they first come to a new country where they can't speak, the language is survival. And like you mentioned, those are the things that. Are going to be priority is, is getting food on the table, saving enough money so that, their kids can go to post-secondary if they can. and so all of this social justice stuff is extra. It's not even something to consider. They don't, there's no capacity to even be thinking about that.

Irving Chong: 42:24

How can you expect to like, change the system when like, They don't even see or care about you.

Kristy Yee: 42:29

But I think you're so right. Pointing out the privilege that we have as the offsprings of these immigrant parents, as Asian millennials, now that we have the privilege of not needing to worry about food and about shelter and clothing. At least most of us, we have the capacity to use that space to now think about social justice and have more room to be thinking about the future and how we can change it. And blah-blah-blah So do you think that, is it worth having these conversations with our parents or should like,

Irving Chong: 43:02

so ultimately the way I feel about any like, sort of. Idea around like what responsibly ability to do like you yourself have to like change someone else's mind or whatever to make, or like make them more progressive or whatever you can do. You can, like, I could talk to my parents every day about this stuff. I could send them like articles and things. I read. Until, like my data plan runs out. But like, until that individual themselves, like shoes to like change or absorb that info or like change their way of thinking, it's like, it's up to them if they want to do anything about it or not.

Kristy Yee: 43:38

yeah.

Angie Yu: 43:39

And I think like, what you both have said about how our parents are so.

Kristy Yee: 43:43

Busy, you know, focused on

Angie Yu: 43:44

surviving or they were so focused on surviving, like depends on where your parents are for myself. Like, there was no way I could have talked to my parents about this social justice stuff, or even about my mental health or just about like me doing my podcast like 10 years ago. There's like, no way I could have even talked to them about this. And I think we have to remember that our parents are still growing as well. And maybe if for those listeners out there who are, you know, grappling with the difficulties around bringing up. These topics that are important to our generation, whether that would be about social justice or inspire to invite invited. I can't speak today environment or about like environmental with them, or like, whatever it is that you care about or mental health or whatever it is like care about. But your parents don't quite have that belief in and you want them to see it your way. it's like, yes, I agree. It's ultimately up to our parents, whether or not they have that capacity to mentally process the stuff, but we can also be kind in our cultivation of that conversation with them and that communication with them. Like for myself, I can see that my parents are no longer in survival mode and they're doing a lot better nowadays than they were a long time ago. And that's when I can kind of start talking to them about this stuff, because I feel like if I brought it up 10 years ago, they would be like, Like, we're still trying to survive, right? Like, well, they wouldn't say that, but they would just be like, well, the fuck are you talking about, like, we have so much shit to worry about. Yeah. but to be honest, like when my parents were not ready for this kind of stuff, I wasn't ready for this kind of stuff

Irving Chong: 45:20

either. But I think one, like just to not leave everyone who's listening, like hopeless.

Kristy Yee: 45:28

Sadness and

Irving Chong: 45:29

sorrow. Right? I think one easy way to just start like, dismantling these ideas that they might have. And like, it depends on how open they're willing to talk about it, obviously. But if they say something like that, you feel like it was off base or just like, Oh, you shouldn't be saying those things anymore. That's why I'm like, why do they think that. Because sometimes if you just get someone to examine why they feel about a certain way and they talked it through, sometimes in that explanation or trying to explain it, they'll see just how, much bullshit they're actually saying.

Kristy Yee: 46:00

And that's something that I'm trying to learn really hard is to come from a place of curiosity instead of a place of, you know, defense

Angie Yu: 46:09

and I feel like it's so easy to just be defensive about

Kristy Yee: 46:13

things, because it feels like it's an attack on us as an individual, whether that's coming from our parents or from trolls on Instagram.

Irving Chong: 46:20

Right. Or sometimes it's just like, if you're talking about something that you feel like you're well versed in. It's kind of hard to forget what you were like before, when you didn't know these things. And it's like, Oh, I wasn't born with like my Instagram page and just like posting all these things and like saying all this and like adding to whatever I'm posting, right. It's like, no, I have to start somewhere. And it's like, if we don't give other people the opportunity, that same benefit to start somewhere. And it's like, what are we doing?

Angie Yu: 46:45

And I, sometimes I tell, because a couple of people have approached me and was like, Hey, how did you talk to your parents about this stuff? I, I don't, I don't know how to talk to my parents cause I just get frustrated and I'm like, well, How would you want your kids in 20 years or 30 years to talk to you about something? Because we're maybe, yeah, like right now we know some shit, but we're going to become outdated. We're already becoming outdated. Like gen Z just knows so much crap and they're doing so much shit and we're already becoming outdated. I'm like, how would you want your kids to talk to you about things right. Like, would you want them to be patient with you and kind with you or would you want them to just yell at you until you're like, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let me go cry in my old

Irving Chong: 47:26

people home.

Angie Yu: 47:29

Yeah. Like as much as I get like the whole like okay. Boomer, you know, thing You know, if the other person's being disrespectful, then I get being like, okay. Boomer and like, whatever. Right. but I think, especially with our parents, if you have a good relationship with them or you want a good relationship with them or with your coworkers, with your boss, like whoever it is in your life. I just, I don't see a lot of value in shaming people until they understand. and I listened to a podcast by Brene Brown about shame and guilt. And she talks about this, how, like a lot of social justice nowadays, like it's become so mainstream in our generation, which is a good thing. But also because we're all different people everyone's approach to kind of enforcing their belief or sharing their belief is different. Some people choose one method over the other. Some are more effective than the other, depending on the person on the other side. But generally, generally, and Bernay Brown. She does a lot of research on shame. she says that you cannot shame people. Into doing something because people associate shame with something that they cannot change. So if you make somebody feel shame about the way they think about black lives matter or about indigenous people or about anything they're going to think that that's just the way they are and it's not effective for the person who's doing the work or the person who's trying to learn the work. So we're going to link that in the show notes as well. It's an episode, it's another podcast by someone named Bernay Brown.

Irving Chong: 48:59

Also, I will say this idea of being respectful and things. If you get angry talking to your parents about this stuff, like that's okay.

Angie Yu: 49:05

Yeah, that's right.

Kristy Yee: 49:06

Yeah. I get angry.

Angie Yu: 49:08

Yeah. I,

Irving Chong: 49:09

I get like, I get frustrated still, like. Like now I just like express it, like where I'll just like kind of stop responding in a meaningful way. Like, yeah, I'm done talking about this. So it's like, I dunno. And then progress also isn't linear and we all show up to whatever capacity of the work that we want to do in whatever form that is. Day-to-day and. Yeah, it's more important to, I guess if you're actually genuine about this type of work, it's a lot more listening and learning. I find than actual, forcing people to change their minds because I don't know as much as you, some people may feel like my page is like great. And all it's like, I'm not perfect. I don't pretend to be. I don't pretend that I know everything or have my pulse on every single injustice going on in the world.

Angie Yu: 49:58

Yeah. Yeah. Who can really,

Irving Chong: 50:00

right. Like, I don't think that these like fucking parity tests that people hold other people to are healthy or even constructive to what things are, because I can't remember who said this and I've said this before, but. it was a black activist and based I'd like the two truths to activism are, you're going to fuck up and you're going to get hurt.

Angie Yu: 50:21

What's a, what's a purity test.

Irving Chong: 50:23

So like, you know how in the U S presidential like Ella race, that Joe Biden, Kamala Harris as his VP. people are mad that Kamala Harris used to be a prosecutor and said, describe herself as like a top cop in America. And then it's like, okay, fine. All these things are valid criticisms, but to say like, you're not going to vote at all because it's Joe Biden and Kamala Harris on the ticket. Seems asinine to me as someone who can't vote in that election. But if I was American, I'd vote for fucking dry lint and glue over the evil maniac that is in office currently. Right. but it's like, okay, if not Kamala, then like who's this Perth perfect person that you're going to uphold and insert into the VP position or Biden's position. Because that person doesn't exist because to like be human is to make mistakes and movements don't have messiahs. They aren't dealt on one person. They are a collective of people and no one person is going to solve everything in the world. And no matter how good that person may seem. Or make you feel as if they're like 10, a hundred or a thousand times better than you. At some point, they're going to screw up I have liked an other like more grounded examples that might relate more like, what does it mean to be like really Asian, if you're like Asian Canadian. it's like, Oh, you're not, you're not actually Chinese because the, but you're also not Canadian It's like, what does authentic mean? Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 51:47

So everybody fails a parody test anyways,

Irving Chong: 51:48

yeah. People aren't

Angie Yu: 51:51

yeah, we all have shit. That's right.

Kristy Yee: 51:55

I know, we talked a lot about your mom and, you know, talking about the learned biases and her unconscious

Irving Chong: 52:03

stuff.

Kristy Yee: 52:04

What would be like the ideal conversation for you? Like if you were going to have this talk with your mom, what would that look like?

Irving Chong: 52:11

I don't know ideal conversation, I guess like what I said before, and like, if she just could like, make the connection between like the idea of like getting rid of oppressive systems, isn't just like, Being nicer taking care of like everyone individually. It's more so, Oh, we get rid of like capitalism. We get rid of the patriarchy where you get rid of like colonialism and all those things. It's not that automatically, it's just a wand and like, society is perfect and everyone is okay. It's just more, so everyone has the opportunity to have their basic needs taken care of, and then. With that base. It's like kind of the idea of what we said before of like whole Christie and I being born on this consummate of like having that privilege of stability and then being able to decide what we want from that. And it's just like giving that to everyone and that how. Just cause I don't know if you're part of you're homeless that doesn't make you a bad person. Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 53:09

Love it. So good. Any last partying words and words of wisdom for our listeners Irving, before we let you go on this beautiful. Sunday afternoon.

Irving Chong: 53:18

Yeah. We're not fucking pandemic right now. Stop being reckless. Yeah. And you know how people during like the protests and stuff had the audacity to tell black people or indigenous people to have patients about like, Their time or like when they'll get resources and stuff, where's that same energy when it comes to staying at home.

Angie Yu: 53:38

I guess like, you know, we just wished that people would take. The amount of fucks they give to, their social lives and put that fucks into, you know, spread it. Yeah.

Irving Chong: 53:50

And I feel like as we get older, Our parents almost stopped seeming like our parents and just seem like other, just like regular people with their own worries and their own like ideas separate from, I guess, ourselves as we grow up. And just because that happens, it doesn't mean that they stop caring about you and just because they don't have the right answers. For you like your stage of life doesn't mean they don't care about you anymore either.

Angie Yu: 54:17

Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 54:17

Thank you so much, Irving, for chatting with us and sharing all of this good stuff. There's so many good stuff that I think we're going to have

Angie Yu: 54:26

to do a few quotes. Yeah. It's going to be a fun episode to edit.

Irving Chong: 54:29

No, thank you for inviting me on and I'll need you to, to come on my podcast whenever. It's accessible to meet up in person again.

Kristy Yee: 54:38

Why end game always game. Lastly, where can people find you? We're going to drop all of this in the show notes, but where can people find you

Irving Chong: 54:44

and your work? Oh my God. Okay. So Instagram page is the asian Canadian, except it's at the, and then ASN Canadian, because I didn't want to type out. All of that podcasts. I've been working on something new, I guess what I could contribute to ideas around race and how race are structured in Canada. Especially in regards to black Canadians. and then yeah, so asians in spaces, that's handled on Instagram. You can listen to the podcasts, Apple, Google, Spotify, all those things. And then I started streaming on Twitch. Just because I was like, if I'm at home playing video games already, I might

Angie Yu: 55:23

as

Kristy Yee: 55:23

well, dude,

Irving Chong: 55:26

if you're interested in that twitch.tv/swerving three and yeah, I think that's it

Kristy Yee: 55:32

Awesome. Okay, this is Christie post editing. We actually did record an episode on Irving's podcasts and that's being dropped the day after this podcast episode. is going to be released. So if you're listening this in the future, they both probably exist somewhere on the internet. We're going to link it in our show notes. So go check that out. I'm here because all of them, because it's still pandemic season. So I'm going to be doing the good feels. Feel good, feel good. Feel good. Comments. Blah-blah-blah. I'm going to be doing the feel good comments for today. And this one comes from number one, tosser, and they left a comment via Stitcher. So here we go. So much fun. It's so refreshing to hear people being that open and honest, but these two tickets to a new level and managed to make it seem so normal and easy and lighthearted. It gives me confidence to embrace some laughter and good times in my own journey. Great job ladies. Smiley face. Can't wait to hear more. Thank you so much. Number one, tosser for that. That is the whole reason why we're doing this. Podcast is to make it fun and light and still be able to talk about some serious conversations. It doesn't always have to be. Difficult, even though it feels like it. So, thank you so much for sharing that with us. And if you wanted to leave a comment for us. Anywhere, either on Apple or on Stitcher, or give us a rating That would be awesome because algorithms is a thing we live in the world of the internet. So we would really appreciate it. If you find our content helpful or enjoyable or entertaining or. not Leave us a comment anyways. Thank you so much. See you soon. Bye.