23. Masculinity ft. Lance Gee & Eric Wu (Off the Wok)

2 Asian men get vulnerable with us and share their fears, shames, and insecurities.  Lance Gee and Eric Wu from over at Off The Wok discuss losing a job, feeling suicidal, de-sexualization of Asian men, and starting all over from failures. Check out this hilarious episode that takes a turn for a deep dive into the Asian male psyche as Lance and Eric get super vulnerable with us. Content warning: suicide 

Highlights:

• Going back to school and restarting a career with a family
• Eric’s fear of water (what?) but he takes showers every day
• Losing your job as the “man” of the family
• Asian male representation in media 
• Lance and Eric overcoming the lowest points of their lives 

Takeaways:

• The shame comes from comparisons and it ruins us
• Our judgements of others are projections of our own insecurities
• People don’t give a crap, so give a crap about yourself
• Provide non-judgmental support and a safe space for the men in your life
• Everyone’s low point is different but they are all painful and valid

Resources:

• Off The Wok (Podcast)
• Off The Wok (Instagram)
• Why I’m Done Trying to Be “Man Enough” (Ted Talk)
• Crisis Centre Helpline (Canada)
• Suicide Prevention Lifeline (USA)

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Transcript

Angie Yu: 0:00

cool. We're live. I alright

Kristy Yee: 0:03

Okay. Okay. Serious time. So we're gonna, we're gonna start the show. We'll talk a little bit about your show and then we're going to get right into the juicy stuff.

Eric: 0:11

Listen, I can't wait for this juicy

OTW Lance: 0:13

yeah, let's go.

Angie Yu: 0:40

Yeah. There's no warmup. Like,

Eric: 0:42

Okay.

Angie Yu: 0:43

do you want some emotional lubricant? Cause there is none.

Kristy Yee: 0:47

Wow.

Eric: 0:47

Whoa.

Kristy Yee: 0:49

Sometimes some lubrication is good there we do a little bit.

Angie Yu: 0:53

Okay. Well that's what all the laughing was about. We're trying to. Get, you know, earn your trust.

Kristy Yee: 0:59

Welcome to another episode of shit. We don't tell mom podcast where we like to talk about uncomfortable shit today. We have Eric on our show from off the walk podcast.

Eric: 1:11

Yo, yo yo

OTW Lance: 1:13

Hey, what's up.

Kristy Yee: 1:14

up guys? What's up? So Angie and I were recently on their podcast for a Valentine's day special. We did this. What is that game called? That drinking game.

Angie Yu: 1:23

Never

Kristy Yee: 1:24

Yes, we played, never have I ever talked a whole bunch of shit about relationships dating. So obviously we need to have you guys on our show so we can talk more about that shit because we need more male perspectives and G and I just talk about shit about like what we know as females, but we need to know what goes on inside your heads when it comes to dating and all that

Eric: 1:47

not too much. we'll see what we can do.

Angie Yu: 1:55

honestly, we just asked for your best. It might not be great, but it is your

Eric: 2:00

Gotcha.

Kristy Yee: 2:01

Angie. It was very encouraging.

OTW Lance: 2:03

I, I just say right now, a hundred percent, you know, we don't represent all Asian men. So it's the stories that are going to come from us. It's just, just our stories. That's it.

Kristy Yee: 2:15

Very good asterix there at

Angie Yu: 2:17

Disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer.

Kristy Yee: 2:19

Why don't you guys share a little bit with our listeners who, who you guys are, what your show is about and something that you have not shared on your podcast. Eric, you start first.

Eric: 2:32

Oh man. Wait, what do I have to start with? Do I, do I start with what I have not shared yet on the podcast?

Kristy Yee: 2:40

Tell us what your podcast is about. See lubrication.

Eric: 2:44

Yes. So basically yeah, off the walk, we are just two Asian Canadian dudes and all we do is we toast talk about our experiences growing up and how we've got a couple of cultural influences affecting us. Our Eastern flips back home at, in our families versus the kind of like the Western influence that we have growing up and how those two kind of melt together to form kind of who we are today. And so we talk about a range of topics anywhere from. Love to gluten-free Asian, gluten-free eating as a, as an Asian to, to I don't know, cultural identity too. I don't know. We've got a couple of their topics coming up, but it's a wide range of topics and yeah, we just, we love interviewing people and we want to hear their perspectives about it. Lance, you want to add something on top of that or do I have it all?

OTW Lance: 3:37

No, I think you got it down pack. Yeah.

Eric: 3:41

And in terms of something that I haven't talked about yet? Oh man. I mean, there's a bunch of stuff that we haven't talked about yet. Like Asians in sports that we want to talk about one day and you know, Asians in acting. That's something that how Asian representative re Asian representative Asian representation, there goes my ESL, their Asian representation in, in like Hollywood and stuff like that. And, you know, there's, there's a bunch of other topics we haven't talked about, but those are some that are just popping into my mind right now. Lance, what about you?

OTW Lance: 4:21

I thought you supposed to say something that you haven't told about the podcast about yourself, about yourself. folks. Sorry, folks. He's ESL. So you have to understand he's he's a little bit slow.

Kristy Yee: 4:34

It's been forgiven.

Eric: 4:36

I've just only been in Canada my whole life. It's just, you know, speak in English.

Kristy Yee: 4:42

Yeah. But that, you know, East versus West, you know, sometimes we get mixed up. It's very confusing times.

OTW Lance: 4:48

Yeah. You want me to start first? You are.

Eric: 4:50

you go first? You go first. I can't think of something right now.

OTW Lance: 4:52

Well, I don't know. I, something that we haven't talked about on our podcast is that I am recently. Back in school. So I recently went back to school. unfortunately I got let go from my job. So I'm unemployed and I'm going back to school to get reeducated and try and start a new career. So, yeah, that's, I don't think I've said that on our show. So definitely that's that's new. You heard it first on shit. We don't tell mom. All right

Kristy Yee: 5:24

fucking exclusive. Okay.

Eric: 5:26

Okay. I got one down. I have not talked about my fears. I am very scared of water, not showers. I love taking showers is fantastic and all, but not a fan of water. So kind of like that's my don't don't.

Angie Yu: 5:44

deep water, like your fear of drowning.

Eric: 5:49

Yeah. Like if I don't, if I'm not going to go swimming, that's not my thing. I mean, even like the, the, what do you call it? The shallow wind. That's, that's still kind of iffy for me, but once I see that water and it's flowing and I look at it and I'm like, Aw, man, this, this, this is going to go bad. So like oceans and stuff like that. If you throw me into an ocean, I will scream and it's not going to be cool. I'll probably do a backflow and that's all I'll do. I'll just, that's it it's that or die basically. It's like, I'm very scared of water, not showers. I love taking showers, but like sweat swimming and stuff like that.

Angie Yu: 6:25

Ladies. He does love showers.

Eric: 6:27

love showers one a day, every day.

Angie Yu: 6:32

That's what, we're our podcasts about. We love just like poking at people's fears

Eric: 6:38

What? Okay.

Angie Yu: 6:43

Well, okay. Okay. Maybe that doesn't sound like we're not like, I don't know. We're not like Maury or like Jerry Springer or anything like that, but I mean, like for the people who have come onto our show to talk, they talk about uncomfortable things. And the reason why people are uncomfortable about it is because they fear that they will be judged or they talk about, you know, failure and uncertainty and all that stuff that gives them quote, unquote, negative emotions, because it brings us fear. When in reality emotion is emotion. There's no such thing as a bad emotion or a good idea.

Eric: 7:18

Hell yeah. Like I'm, I'm an open book. I'll talk about all my fears. I don't, I'll have to dig deep to figure out another fear, but I'll talk about it. It's

Angie Yu: 7:27

Why, why you think about that while you think dig deep and find what your true fears are? the ones that you are embarrassed to talk about, I'm gonna. Pivot over to Lance because Lance, I think it's interesting that you haven't brought up the fact that you're currently out of a job on T on your podcast. Is there a reason why you haven't brought that

OTW Lance: 7:49

I'm just ashamed. Don't make it. Okay. Well, you know, it's, I think it's a, it's a tough topic, you know? I was laid off, so it's not like I did something wrong and I got fired or something, but it's, it's like Alberta has been pretty rough in the oil industry. And so there's been a lot of layoffs. but it's I don't know, sometimes I guess you feel embarrassed, right? Because, you know, as a man, you kind of the bread you know, the, the person that brings home you know, And I'm not saying that all men, women bring it to, it's not like my wife brings home, but usually men, we have this perception that, you know, we want to be the one to bring home the bread and butter right. For our family. So yeah, it's tough to sometimes kind of admit that and, and kind of move forward, but I haven't talked about it on the show just because I think we really haven't really had an episode about that topic you know, in particular of jobs or anything like that, but yeah, so I guess.

Angie Yu: 8:50

absolutely. I mean, even from like, I'm trying not to get too psychoanalytical here, but like, even from the way you were explaining yourself, you're like, Oh, you know, it's not that I'm saying that women don't bring home money. It's because you're almost like afraid to admit that like, Hey, this is a responsibility that I have, and this is a responsibility that society has placed on me. But in reality, that is what, you know, like toxic masculinity. Doesn't only affect women affects men too. Right. So. Kind of like, you know, like, it's, it's hard for you to admit a K like I have this responsibility. Oh. But, but I'm like, you know, everyone can earn, you know what I mean? Like,

OTW Lance: 9:26

Yeah.

Angie Yu: 9:27

yeah. I'm not really articulating it very well, but I I'm trying to get across that. Like, even talking about this issue is like you don't know what to say, because this is not something we talk about often.

Kristy Yee: 9:40

like, there's a sensitivity behind, not even behind it, but like all around it.

OTW Lance: 9:44

Yeah. It's, it's, it's super tough. Like, especially like sometimes friends or even like, I find like with neighbors, if, if you kinda, you know, and they know about what industry you are, like, it's a very small industry, right. In Alberta. It's almost like everybody's in oil and gas. So people hear about your company and they know they've done massive layoffs and of course, they'll ask you and then, you know, I'm not, I don't lie about it. So I tell them yes, but then it becomes that awkwardness. Right. Especially if the neighbor is like a dude, he he'll be like, all right. Like, you know, you know, it would just be like a little bit of silence. Like, you know, don't worry, things will come, come by right. Or something. But I mean, yeah. It's, I guess it's, it's tougher for us guys to talk about those kinds of things, but I guess now, even going back to school is also. Another set of obstacles for myself, right. Just cause I'm, I'm 41. I'm going back to school. You know, all my friends are like, you know, some of them are VPs, you know, some of them are their own owners of their own company. And so sometimes I look at myself like, Oh man, I'm 41. I'm going back to school. Like, Oh my God. You know, it's like, so yeah. It's, it can be something tough to talk about for sure.

Kristy Yee: 11:06

does it ever feel like. How do I put this? Wow. See, you see how this is? So like, there's like a tiptoe awkwardness about it. So fuck this. This is,

Eric: 11:17

Just say it,

OTW Lance: 11:18

just say yeah,

Kristy Yee: 11:19

Yeah, I know. Do you feel like inadequacy compared to your peers and the people around you and then there's shame around that?

OTW Lance: 11:34

inadequacy. I think if I was younger, like in my thirties yeah, I think, you know, there's a lot of comparison with where people are and, and to this day I do. And I don't I think it's just comes with maturity that, you know, you kind of think about, you know, you can't, you can't always compare yourself. Right? We, we kill each other, comparing ourselves about who we are in comparison with where everybody else is. And that just ruins us. Like we, we, we, instead of comparing, we have to be again if you're gonna compare, you should be happy about the things you do have in life, right? Like I've got a family, you know, I got a loving wife, you know, I got you know, I got three kids and I think that's something to be proud about. Right. And, and that you gotta be, you know, you gotta be proud about it for yourself and stop comparing with everybody else. Right. Because everyone's going to judge you. There's no doubt, right. It doesn't matter if you're a good person, a bad person, you know, everyone's, they're out to judge you, but if you're gonna keep living your life based on how everyone's looking at you it's going to be a tough life, right. Because every day, you know People are going to be looking at you in different ways. And it's most of the times it's yourself kind of just thinking that people are judging you. Right? I think no people aren't coming because people aren't in your face going you're you're, you know, you're a degenerate, you know, you, you don't know what you're doing and you lost it job, you know, God, I mean, most of the time was nothing. They don't say that in front of your face. It's yourself thinking that, right? Like, like I'm thinking about my neighbors because there's keeping silent or, you know, th th that awkward conversation having in my head, I'm like, Oh, does he think I'm a loser? Or they, you think I got fired? Or, you know, that kind of stuff. But I think you got to let that not play in your head because if you do, it's just I think it just, it's going to get tough for you, right? Because it's going to be pretty stressful. If you keep thinking about what everybody else is thinking, and you just gotta be strong for yourself.

Eric: 13:33

Brody night, Dan thinking they don't give a shit, man. Like you think your neighbor's thinking about it. He's thinking about what he's doing for the rest of the day. He's like, He's like, Oh, sorry, Lance. Yeah. After the heat, if you just keep people, always keep thinking that people are like, judge, like you're not that important man. Play. They got,

Kristy Yee: 13:50

one's thinking about you. Okay. He's he's like, I gotta take a leak. When are we wrapping up?

OTW Lance: 13:56

Oh, I'm crying now. No, one's thinking about me.

Kristy Yee: 14:00

I also want to point out, like, we always think the worst of ourselves and I think we know this already. Right. But the example that you had, like what you had just shared Lance you're you're like, why did I not talk about this? Well, because I'm ashamed. I do people think I'm a loser. Like, I don't want to be talking about this because people are gonna think I'm a loser. They're going to judge me because they're going to think I got fired. So they they'll think that I'm not a good worker. All of this came from you just now, when you first told us that, Oh, recently I went back to school and I'm going to change my career. My first thought is like, hot damn good for you and Matt, like. That's pretty dope for you to be like, fuck this. I'm I'm going to leave. Like, I'm going to switch careers. I'm going to do something else and I'm going to go to school and I'm going to learn something new so that I'm gonna, you know, move on to another direction in my life and open a new chapter. I thought that was super dope and inspirational. But in that, that's what happened in my head, in this same conversation, though, a completely different thing happened in your head.

OTW Lance: 15:05

Absolutely. That's a great analogy. Cause I'm thinking in my head, she's just saying that right now, they should just trying to be nice to me. But in fact, she's thinking like, man, this guy's 41 going back to school. What a loser. That's not true, right? No, I just can't. I know, I know I'm playing with you,

Angie Yu: 15:20

I also think that what other people think of you? You know, as we get older, we realize that nobody gives a shit about us except ourselves. And I feel like when people, judge, you it's really like, it's so cliche, but it's really a reflection of on them. Like for example, the reason why Christie think. That is because she has that goal for herself. Right. So I know Christie, I know that she wants to go back to school for her, it's like a great next step for where she is in her career. So that when she hears someone who's going to make, going back to school, she only thinks about that aspect because that's what affects her. Whereas for me, when you said that, I was like, Oh man. So my perspective is different because if I were to think about it, for me to go back to school or it's not where I want to be in my life. So then those judgments that you're thinking about, it's kind of like the judgements that I would place on myself as well. So I feel like when other people, if I were a bad person and I judged you and I'm not saying I'm a good person. I am trying to be less judgmental. but if I were to be judgmental of, of your situation, then I would come up with those stairs types because those are the stereotypes that I would place on myself.

Kristy Yee: 16:31

I got it. So it's like, if someone actually did think that you're a loser Lance it's because they actually think of themselves as a loser first. And so they're projecting that loser illness onto someone else, because they're afraid that if they do the same thing, they're going to feel like a loser. Boom. What's up.

Angie Yu: 16:49

what I was trying to

OTW Lance: 16:50

you are so dead on because I'm probably, I thought like, if someone was to say that to me, I probably think of all those things that, that, that I just thought about myself. So. I'm just kidding. I usually don't do that, but there is some of that where you do think of that, right. Where you're just kinda like, you know, is this guy what happened in his job? Right. What was going on? Did he know what he was doing anyways? You know, there's a lot of your own biases that you play out in your own head. Right? And so those are just your own thoughts, but you're right. We just, we can't always be so judgmental about things. And, and I think the important thing is just for yourself not to worry too much about, and like you say, no one really gives a crap about you, right? I mean, you just need to give a crap about yourself and worry that, you know, and just do your own thing that makes sure that look is, this is the direction that you need to go, then just go and do it. Right. And don't worry about all the excessive noise outside of that.

Eric: 18:00

Very well said, that's all I'm

Angie Yu: 18:03

Eric's like, let me, let me get in there with a

OTW Lance: 18:05

Yeah.

Angie Yu: 18:06

contribute. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. I will point out that Eric, you have a very mellifluous voice.

Eric: 18:12

I don't even know what that means,

Kristy Yee: 18:13

yeah, neither do I.

Angie Yu: 18:16

it's like, like a sound that's very melodic and very pleasant to listen to.

Eric: 18:21

Just, you know, if you want, I can record some of just me reading stuff and maybe it'll allow you to sleep at night. So this is a bottle of Heinz ingredients, water, like, I don't know. Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 18:33

Tomato paste.

Angie Yu: 18:34

sugar is probably the second. Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 19:10

Oh my gosh. Okay. Eric had mentioned men representation, Hollywood media, shit. You guys haven't talked about that on your podcast yet. We want to talk about that with you guys.

Angie Yu: 19:22

Yeah, we would love to hear your perspectives.

Kristy Yee: 19:24

We want to know. Okay. So recently, like little bit recently, there's a little tiny, little bit more male representation. I feel in the media blew up from crazy rich Asians, fresh off the boat, you know, kids convenience. We now see Asian faces, little bit more. First of all, growing up we didn't have that a lot. Did you guys ever have any like celebrity idols that you had looked up to before?

Eric: 19:53

Denzel Washington, Tom Hanks.

OTW Lance: 19:58

Brad Pitt.

Eric: 20:02

I'll watch it. I'll watch anything with Denzo man. I'll watch anything with it. Don't matter what it is.

OTW Lance: 20:08

I, I think that's true. I think like you know, growing up when, when you think of Asians, we don't really see a whole lot of that like there now you're seeing like, you know, damn like, you know, these guys are all ripped, and we wouldn't get that like in our face. I don't know, I'm a little bit older, but the, the films that I used to watch is like, you know, you're, you're a geeky nerdy kind of Asian kid. You're skinny, you know, glasses, you know, the dorky glasses or you're the other guy you're Bruce Lee, right? You're you're Jackie Chan you're, you know, Kung Fu kind of you know, Kung Fu fighter. You're, you're good at fighting. Right. And we didn't get that other representation of who we could be. you know, we could be you know, a good handsome guy. we could be a good father. We could be, you know, other types of people, you know, that, that we don't play. We could be a gangster, you know, that cause we don't play gangster rules. Right. you know, those kinds of things, but I think more like you were saying more and more of that is happening and I'm really happy to see more of that kind of representation. Right? Like crazy rich Asian. There's some of that playing out. what, what other kinds of films like what's that other one

Eric: 21:19

Yeah, man, Steven Yeun, first Asian American nominated for best actor. That's fucking right.

Angie Yu: 21:24

And the movie is like, you know, he's not some, he's not like a Henry Golding, half naked, you know, whatever, like crazy rich Asian. He's also not like Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, he's like a regular father. Who's just trying to provide for his family. that's that's a little bit more representation that's come really, really, really fucking late,

Eric: 21:48

Yeah. Very late. It's about time, man.

Angie Yu: 21:52

And how does that make you feel? Like how does that make you feel that like, you didn't have this growing up.

Eric: 21:57

it's it kind of sucks because like, yeah, like I said, like when you're growing, when I'm growing up, I'm Tom Hanks, right? Tens of Washington. I didn't see, I didn't see like the Asians in Lake, like Lance was saying like the Asians, they they're all like. They're always the secondary characters. They're the ones that help the main characters who is generally like a strong white male lead or something like that. It's it. It's like, I'm thinking of examples of movies I've watch where it's like that even where they're just put in there, like even like the most recent one, you know, you guys ever seen that, the big short, when you're talking about, we were at that scene, where was I? Gosling's talking to Steve? Yeah. He's like this guy's just a smart Asian guy. Something like that has just boomed.

Angie Yu: 22:44

this is my quad guy. Look at him. Look at him. This is my quad guy. Look at him. And the guy's just like, ah, actually I can't speak English,

Eric: 22:52

yeah,

Angie Yu: 22:53

Do you feel like it's more authentic if I don't?

Eric: 22:55

yeah, exactly. So like, and then yeah, like, like Lance was saying, you know, in terms of like the Bruce leaves, the Jackie Chan's there they're the male leads and stuff, but yeah, it's, it's all Kung Fu stereotype stereotypical, you know, That type of martial arts side. Right. So nowadays we're seeing a lot more like I'm a big fan of John Cho, you know, I've seen him in that one movie where he's trying to save his daughter with the cell phone in the other movie Columbus. I think these are good movies with a love John show. I would love to get them that's I always tell Lance that's my dream got to get onto the show to interview, but like him I watched what was that Tigertail movie with? what's.

Angie Yu: 23:37

my God. Yes.

Eric: 23:38

Yeah, so yes.

Angie Yu: 23:41

like the father of all Hollywood movies, like the Chinese father of

Eric: 23:45

yeah, awesome. You know, even always be my, maybe Randall park that guy's funny, man. That guy's funny as hell. He was just a regular dude, you know, and it was great movie, so it's, it's good to see more. What is other ones like shoplifters? there's there's like tons more it's it's crazy how it's exploded too. I mean, you also get the other side with the bling empire it's representation, but in a different, different sense, but

Angie Yu: 24:09

it's still a type of representation. That's

Eric: 24:11

a type of

Angie Yu: 24:12

our rep representation.

Eric: 24:14

Exactly, exactly. So, you know, I like, I liked seeing that is what I'll say.

Kristy Yee: 24:19

I think that was the point though. Sorry. I think that was the point of, you know sure. Blink empire is not something that we, four of us here relate to, but the whole point is to have different characters so that different Asians can relate to so that there are more career opportunities that we can see us doing. Right. It's not just, Oh, I'm going to be a tiger mom, or I'm going to do Kung Fu or I'm going to be an accountant. Right? Like, those are our options on, on TV. Now. It's like, yo, you want, you want to be bling empire. You can be bling empire. You know, you want to be CIA because, you know, I just watched one division last night and Randall park said, you want to fucking, you want to be in the CIA, you can be in this. Like now you can see your skin color in a CIA uniform. You know? So, so now it's like all these opportunities. There's, there's more of that. It's like Barbie dolls, you know, back in the days, bro, Barbie dolls is representing like, Oh, all of these different career options that you can do as a girl, you know, it's like, see, well, yeah. And only if you're like that look like that. That's a whole, that's a whole other thing though. That's a whole other thing, but basically it's like, now we can see, you know, I can see myself in these as these people.

OTW Lance: 25:45

I totally, yeah. I agree with you. Like, I, I totally see that, you know, back when I was younger, we wouldn't imagine ourselves being anything, but you know, like you gotta go to school, you gotta be smart because that's what we're portrayed to be is, is smart. But I I'm horrible at math. Like I suck and it's, there's this stereotype that, yeah, it's like, we, Asians are good at math and it's like, no, man. And we talk about representation again, like same thing, thinking about like firefighters or police officers, you know, we never saw any of that. So I didn't think in my head I could be, you know, a police officer or a firefighter or something like that. And then looking at sports. Like there's, there's hardly any representation with, with Asians, right? It's a, it's a really, either you're an African-American or you're Caucasian, that's playing the sport. There's there's very little, and it was that to say that we're not good at it, probably not, but you know, it's just, there's not enough of it that we think that, Oh, we could be a basketball player or, Oh, we could be a hockey player. but we, we just don't see it enough. So then you think, ah, nah, you know, there's none of us out there. We're just accountants and I don't know what else is the tip? It's a stair to engineers or something, right?

Kristy Yee: 27:03

you know what I was just thinking when you were saying all of that is a lot of times or previously Asian men were not viewed as sexy. And I think that's still a big thing right now in media and yes, crazy rich Asians, half naked. What's his name again?

Eric: 27:23

Henry Golding.

Kristy Yee: 27:24

Yeah. Yes.

Eric: 27:25

Yeah.

Angie Yu: 27:26

Yeah. Oh yeah. Eric is a

Kristy Yee: 27:28

Like, you know, we're, we're flipping that right. Men are sexy. Okay. you say I counted, I'm not really that turned on. So I feel like there's a double negative here because not only are we not portrayed. You're like, Oh baby, pull out your calculator. Yeah. Let's see them spreadsheets yeah. Would do it.

Angie Yu: 27:47

Like, you know, like, but, okay. Sorry. Back to the topic, back to the topic. What? Yeah. So if you say accountant, for some reason, Christie doesn't feel anything towards that.

Kristy Yee: 27:59

I personally, my heart is not throbbing when I think of accountant and I, and, and I feel like because, you know, first of all Asian men, we don't get lead roles. We've Asian men don't get lead roles often. And that in itself means that they're not the, they're not the object of desire because the lead male roles, usually the object of desire or the person to be desired for. So that's already out. Okay. And then second of all, when we do get a role, it is that typical, you know, stereotyped role you're you are an accountant. You are some like funny caricature on, Oh my gosh, I'm losing it. That hangover movie. No, like, right. But you're like this funny, crazy guy who jumps out naked at the back of the trunk. None of these, none of these roles are sexy.

Angie Yu: 28:49

Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 28:53

to correct. Correct

Angie Yu: 28:55

No, for sure. Like so far, like we're all very aware of the desexualization of Asian men and the overt sexualization of Asian women and people are like, Oh, like, but the thing is both are bad, both are bad. it just works out a little bit better for us in the dating pool, I guess, but not in a good way,

Kristy Yee: 29:15

I don't

Angie Yu: 29:16

not to go away. Like have you, well, I know Lance, I know you're married. and you have kids. Eric, I know you're dating. what is it like for you in the dating world of being an Asian guy? Because Christie and I are pretty familiar with what it's like to be an Asian girl, but.

Eric: 29:36

It's honestly, in, for Asian guys and, you know, I used to be in the dating sphere, like when I was launching the date, my dating apps and stuff like that. And Asian guys are bottom of the barrel man. Like we are boom, which is it? Yeah. Which is like you said, it's, it's weird. Cause like Asian women are at the top of the top of the chain. It's kind of like, it's an inverse relationship for some odd reason. So yeah. And it's, it's kind of odd how that works out and it's for us Asian guys, it's the same reason why Asian women are so much are, I guess, lusted after, because of the fact that we're shown as kind of like meek or silent or, or, you know, we're not confrontational and stuff like that. That's why they love the Asian girls. Cause they think they're like on top of the fact that they're exotic and you know, I don't know. Fresh. I don't even know. I don't know what I'm talking about right now, but like, but like, you know what I'm talking about, there's some

Angie Yu: 30:41

longer, best before date. Okay.

Eric: 30:44

so that's why they go was for us because we have those same traits. It does not make us attractive to

Angie Yu: 30:52

Oh, I see

Kristy Yee: 30:54

like the, the docile Asian girl that saw submissive and, you know, that's super attractive because

Angie Yu: 31:03

right before men dose out men is not as what you're saying. Oh, so what you're saying is that the stereotypes projected onto Asian people in general, which is that where we don't like to speak up, you know, if we're being bullied, we'll just quiet down. We're going to go work at our restaurant at our laundry

Eric: 31:23

Laundromat. I don't know.

OTW Lance: 31:24

right.

Eric: 31:25

I was a launderer. That's a completely different term right there. Okay.

Angie Yu: 31:34

whoops. that's a different type of crazy irritation. Okay. Yeah, we're just going to step, step back. Like we don't want to make any ways. And like, so what I'm understanding here is that you're saying for a woman to be like that it's attractive and for a man to be like that it's unattractive. That actually makes so much sense. Like same thing with the stereotypes about black people is that they're very strong and opinionated and very, they can assert themselves, which you find attractive in a male, but unattractive in a woman by the, you know, general patriarchy

Eric: 32:06

yeah, exactly. And you know, that's how we've been represented in media for all these years, too, right? Like, like we were just talking about before, where we're always in the back. Just nerds. We're not the main hero out there.

OTW Lance: 32:21

But don't you don't, you guys think that this is you know, a society thing. Like we we've all put into this, like, okay. What's, what's it mean to be a sexy guy, right? It's gotta be like, you know blonde hair, blue eye chiseled, you know, body, you know, and he's gotta be like over six feet tall and that's what they keep portraying. We all like different things, right. Different things. Turn us, turn us on. So, you know, but I think that's the problem. Like a lot of Asian guys. Are like shorter than, you know, a black guy or a Caucasian guy. Right. And I think that pits us at the lower spectrum as well, because somehow women prefer to have taller guys. Right. So, because Asian guys, aren't typically a tall you know a taller person then we automatically are kind of at the lower spectrum. Right. So, you know, that kind of, kind of sucks for us, but I mean, that's, again, is that because of the society, the way that society does it, or is this just a preference from a female's perspective that no, you know, I like to look up or feel that the man is, you know, because he's taller, there's some sort of safety with that. I don't know.

Angie Yu: 33:39

I go, I do. I agree with pretty much everything you were saying. Although I do think that. Our preferences does get affected by society because like, we don't live in a vacuum. It's not like we're born. And we're like, Oh, I like this type of person. Right. You like pick up things from what's around you. And we, like, we actually said this a lot in our episode four, we said individual consciousness is collective consciousness because collective consciousness is made up of individual consciousness.

Eric: 34:13

Wait, say that again.

OTW Lance: 34:15

yeah.

Angie Yu: 34:20

Okay. So this, this quote is from Alan Watson. I have this like whole Alan Watts period when I was like super depressed. But he says that we think that as individuals, we are separate from society or so we're separate from the collective. Consciousness. That's absolutely not true because the whole idea, the definition of a collective consciousness is that it's a collection of individual consciousness. So if you want to change the collective consciousness, that's like, for example, all guys have to look like Hitler youth. then you need to change your individual consciousness around what is sexy and what is attractive, because then that will influence up. And once more people do that, then you're kind of changing the collective consciousness. Just how, like we're, we're asking for more representation. And then I didn't know, to ask for more representation until someone else asks for more representation. So essentially like to, to boil it down to something very philosophy, philosophical it's like individual consciousness is collective consciousness. So like what you guys are saying, and the reason why we want to bring up the stuff and. To just talk about it when people say like, Oh, talk about it, talk about it because it does make a difference. So, yeah. So that's why we want, we want you guys on the show to just keep talking about it. I find that there's so much more like self-love healing, self-improvement emotional journeys for women than there are material and content for men.

Eric: 35:58

I agree. There's less. I don't know. Maybe it's because PR is perceived like men are. They don't, they don't need it. Or, or maybe a lot of men don't, they, they don't want to talk about it. Right. Because it's also a stigma on that to talk about like, Oh, we're, you know, we're, we, we have issues where we want to be vulnerable, but we can't, you know, and that also relates back to body image as well, too, because a lot of Asian males, all they're seeing now are to are he's huge jacked white guys and stuff like that. Right. So they try to get to that baby. And if they can't stuff starts to like, it, it clouds them and maybe certain issues start to happen. They start to have low self-esteem because of that or something or other issues. And they can't talk about anybody with anybody, because on top of that, they're Asian and Asian never talk about, especially Asian men. They don't talk, they never talk about anything. That's really it's like any issue, any mental issue or any health issue or anything of that. So it's, it's almost like. Like a double whammy for, for Asians. So it's, it's, it's really bad is I'll say, so there should be more talk on Asian or our men's just in general men's mental health because it's, there are lots of issues there that we can relate with, with women from our side. Right.

OTW Lance: 37:28

agree with you. And I think like, is there, do you think there's something to do with the algorithm that IgG or any of these platforms do, because what I've noticed right. And is that for the men and somehow, obviously these platforms know that you're a man or a female you know, the, the women get a lot of the self healing. A lot of the self loves kind of stuff, because that's what. Women kind of want and, and, and for men, it's like, I noticed that on my feeds, it's always about like some fitness or like, you know, there's there's girls on there. So there's a lot of that feed that comes in, but I'm not purposely searching for these feeds, but for some odd reason, I think this is, you know, they've realized that this is what keeps men on this platform. So let's give them more of this. This is what keeps women on the platform. Let's give them more of that. And then we just, you know, I guess what I'm trying to say is that we, we, there should be more like, it's gotta start somewhere and we gotta be able to, you know, like, you're right, Eric, like men also need help as well. You know, like I think more and more men are coming out now trying to be more vulnerable, right. Talking about it because. Sometimes we do need help, you know, and sometimes we hold it in so much that, you know, I, I, I'm pretty sure I've been there myself where you, you, you just, you're embarrassed to ask for help because we're men, we're supposed to be the stronger figure. Right. We're supposed to be that person that is like a rock and anybody can come to us. And, and, you know, and especially if we're, we're a parent, right. You're the father you're supposed to be holding up the family, you know, everything is on your shoulder. So there's a big burden for us, but I think. We're just human. So we need, I think sometimes if we, we need that help it's it's okay. Right. It's okay to ask for help. And don't just keep saying, I can do this. I can do this because sometimes you can, right. You're just going to break down and you don't want to get to that state because you know, that can lead you down a very dark path. Right. And, and I can contest to that and say that, you know, I I've been down some, some deep holes and, and you should try to really, you know, just sometimes it's, you're just, you're just too proud.

Angie Yu: 39:57

Oh, that actually makes me okay. That actually leads me to a bit a burning question that I've had is like, if you have, if you have the need, the need for tweet, I'm just getting, sorry. I've been watching the office. If you have the need to talk to somebody about these deep issues, where these deep conversations and you can't go to your boys and grab a beer and talk with them, who do you go to to talk about that?

OTW Lance: 40:25

for me, I'm lucky that I have a brother that I really connect with and, you know, I think if I didn't have. a brother like, like him, that's you know, willing to talk deep. Like I get buddies that I go to and I've tried it's not that I haven't tried. I've tried. And they're like, dude, it's okay. You know, like, we'll talk about girls, maybe, you know, a breakup or something. It's like, ah, don't worry about it. You know, it's like, there's lots of girls, right. Don't worry, men we'll find you something else. And it's just, don't worry about it. Right. And instead of really what happened, what's going on. Right. Let's talk about this. And I'm just lucky that I, you know, I have a brother that we can really connect and talk about what happened. Was it me? Was it her, you know, the differences between us and, and really kind of hash it out and just kind of makes you self-reflect about how things went and, and that's, you know, it's, it's really helped me go, go there, but you know, yeah. Some, some of my friends just, they don't, they'd rather not talk about it. Right. There's just like, okay. You know, their way of thinking of coping with it is yo man. let's play some halo or, you know some call of duty, right. Cod or something. Right. Play some games and that's, you know, that's their way of saying, Hey, don't worry. I'm here. Whatever you need me. You're right. Cause I think that's kind of the, the, the, the belief that we have, right. Is that we're here for each other. Don't worry, man. You know, let's play some games. I'm here for you. But sometimes, like I say, I don't know. Right. Maybe some men are different. Right. Some men just say, I don't want to talk about that kind of shit. Just let's go out and have a good time. And then there are some men that look, man, I want to have this conversation or get it out vent. Right. It's not just women that do it. Right. Men can do it too. And maybe there's women out there that don't want to talk about that kind of shit. It's just like, I just, just leave me alone. Right. I just want to do whatever I want play some video games or something. Right. So everyone's different.

Angie Yu: 42:19

Yeah. Yeah. And it's having that. I think it's having that safe space. Like I know if, if something's really bugging me and I know that there are different girlfriends of mine that I can go for different issues. And there, there will be that safe space for me to talk about that. But I think that is such a, it has been so feminized that concept of like offering. Help and consoling your friends. It's so feminized, right? Cause I do, I do know. I have guy friends who like, they go to their female friends for these types of issues. And I was actually having a conversation with a guy friend from university and I was kinda talking to him about mental health and about my recent diagnosis and stuff like that. He was like, yeah, like he didn't name any names. He's like, yeah, well, you know what? This group of friends, like, we actually started to have a monthly meetup where we cut the bullshit, we cut the jokes and we just asked, we go around and ask everyone how they're doing. Like, how is that actually going? Like, are you stressed out work all you're worried about your career? Oh, you're you're having a relationship. But she was like, they actually make an effort to do that because one person in the group had just gone to a really, really dark place. And then as a group, they realized like, yo, we need to like, do something about this because like our friend needs our help. But of course, like not all friend groups are not all, you know, some, like, I think for them, that was a very special case because I guess there were enough people who cared about this stuff. Right. But I feel like, yeah, like maybe even just throwing this example, maybe someone, a listener out there who heard this, they're like, yo, that's such a good idea. I should do this with my friends. Like I'm like, I I'm, I'm just hoping that that will be passed along

OTW Lance: 44:03

I hope.

Angie Yu: 44:04

I feel like it's so

OTW Lance: 44:04

Yeah. I definitely hope that, you know, men can go out there and, and do that. Right. And you definitely need a good. Support group, because like, like again, we go back to the very beginning, talk about being judgmental and, and that fear is coming from within us. And so a lot of times men don't want to share those things because they're fearful for the way that, you know, your buddies or, you know, your close friends are judging you right now. and instead of being supportive, right, instead of saying, Hey, you know what, let's, let's try to find ways out of this. And they're here making fun of you and makes, just makes things even worse. So I think, you know, for, for people out there, I think if you can, you know, be genuine and really. You know, help a friend. and, and, you know, some guys, like I say, are, are different and they do need to talk about things. And some guys don't, but realize who those people are. And exactly, like you said, create a safe space where you're not going to be judged or criticized about what happened. Right. Cause I mean, you could be wrong. You could be right. But this is a space where you can talk about it and learn from all of these experiences, right? Whether it was a right move from you or a wrong move is that you can go out there and, and really take something out of it for yourself to grow. Right. Instead of being stuck in the same place, because if you don't talk about it, you don't know, then you go through another relationship or the similar situations and you figure in, well, what's going on and this must be the girl. Right? I mean then maybe the guy, every guy that you go around with is telling you the same thing. But you know, I think that's the key is you got to get different perspectives because sometimes. If you're out with your buddies, they're always going to be like, dude, that girl was a nigger was a sled anyways. Or like, you know, that girl was no good for you and yeah, she's crazy. Like, you don't want to hear those kinds of things. I mean, some guys date their girlfriends for four years and you're like, no, I love this person, but something happened. Right. And you don't want to hear it. Oh yeah. She's trashed for you. Like, I've heard that so many times from my buddies. Right. And, and I'm like, okay, I break up, you know, and then I get back together and then of course they're like, Oh no. Yeah. She's cool. She's cool. You know, but they don't sit, you know, they don't, it's just like, it's all whacked, right? Like they think being supportive is just means to be on your side. But sometimes you need that constructive criticism. You need to know what's going on. Right. Like, I don't know. That's just me again. It's just me. Maybe Eric, you got something else? I don't know.

Eric: 46:37

Oh man, for me, it's I don't really talk to too many people about any issues that I have. I talked to myself, I guess People talk to me about their issues a lot. And then we go deep. We can go deep into that. I don't really talk to, I treat it for me. It's I've only been in like, kind of like one place that was dark one time in my life. Like this was like the lowest point of my life. And at that point I was all alone anyway. So I just had that. I just dealt with it myself. I had a good cry. I, I had a good cry. I was in the shower. I still remember I was in the shower

Angie Yu: 47:25

Oh, your favorite place.

Eric: 47:26

my favorite place and I had a good cry in there. And then I was good to go. So I just cried it out myself and then I was done. Yeah. I don't really talk to too many people, honestly,

OTW Lance: 47:39

but could put it, could you have used a friend at that time?

Eric: 47:41

I, I guess so that, that could have been good. Maybe not with me in the shower.

Kristy Yee: 47:47

That would be quite beautiful.

Angie Yu: 47:49

You know, all jokes aside. Like we like to joke that, you know, boys being romantic with each other is really funny because there's some sort of like, we laugh about it because it's like, Oh, because that's not going to happen, but Hey, we need to encourage these, you know, bromance

Eric: 48:07

Oh, bromance is a love, a love bromance. So

Angie Yu: 48:11

Actually that I find bromance. One of the sexiest thing. I think that's probably one, that's one thing that's very universal. Chrissy and I have very different tastes than men, but one thing we can agree on is like, does that guy have a bromantic partner? Yes,

OTW Lance: 48:25

So, what, what is the definition of a bromance to you guys?

Kristy Yee: 48:30

crying in the shower together.

Eric: 48:31

In that case. Okay. I don't know if I've actually had,

Angie Yu: 48:36

I think it's the, the key is like being able to be vulnerable with someone, whether it's your brother, your friend, your mom, your girlfriend, like anything like that. I think being vulnerable with someone. I think that just says a lot about the person's like emotional availability

Eric: 48:53

Ooh, that's a, I was picturing something else, but

OTW Lance: 48:56

Yeah.

Eric: 48:57

my definition of romance is like us feeling each other's biceps, bro. You've been working, know that and then, you know, hitting each other's balls or something like that. That's, that's our definition.

Angie Yu: 49:07

but I think that's how men show their love for each

Eric: 49:10

That is,

Angie Yu: 49:12

and that's well, that's part of it, right? That's part of the bromance. But I think for women, because we're so emotionally driven that we see that as an emotional connection,

Eric: 49:22

Oh, in that case we will. Yeah. Then I got some emotional connections. All right.

OTW Lance: 49:29

You slap in a lot of balls.

Eric: 49:33

We just, we just hit each other. It's awesome.

Angie Yu: 49:36

Like, like, that's funny, like men, men are like, Oh, is this my friend? Let me slap your ball. And women are like, we're not going to go up to each other and slap each other's

Kristy Yee: 49:44

yo,

Angie Yu: 49:45

like Christie, I miss you so much. boom, boom, boom, boom.

Kristy Yee: 49:49

you know, we're, we're at 2d, slapping status, you know, we got.

OTW Lance: 49:52

I got to say, that's probably something definitely attractive for, for men, right? I mean, as much as you say bromance, I would say that is like, you know, the, what do you call that? sister's sister love or whatever sister,

Eric: 50:08

Now, like what I do with my friends is all obviously not indicative of what all, I don't know if Lance, Lance probably

OTW Lance: 50:17

I don't know what the, what the craziness is with about, you know, punching each other's in the balls. But somehow I know that every fucking man out there does it with their fucking bros and I don't know what it is, but we fucking love doing it to each other. So just, it's just one of those things that you just, you know, we, you know, you're tight when you can fucking punch your buddy in the balls, you know,

Eric: 50:40

yeah,

OTW Lance: 50:41

and not get pissed off about it, then it's like, okay, we're we're good buddies. Right.

Angie Yu: 50:46

Oh man. That's the Ivy. We all express love differently, right?

Kristy Yee: 50:50

I want to go like a full one 80. Is that one 80 or three 60? No, three 60. Yeah. It'd be like going back to where were so when I go, I'm going to go one 80. Okay.

OTW Lance: 51:01

yeah, math was definitely not your strong

Kristy Yee: 51:03

but

Eric: 51:05

Oh shit.

Kristy Yee: 51:18

Angie and I. We used to get personal comments, comments from strangers, DMS from people we don't know. And they would either come into our personal Instagram or into our podcast, Instagram, DMS, and whenever we would get these messages from folks, we would screenshot it and then send it to each other so that we are reminded of. How important this is and keeps us motivated in, keeps us motivated in continuing to pump out the content. Continuing to interview guests, continue to have our stories heard and have uncomfortable conversations shared so that we collectively can be a bit more comfortable with the uncomfortable. So it really means a lot to us when everyone sends in their love. and here's feel good feedbacks for today's episode from UBC women in CS, CS, meaning computer science. They say, Hey, Angie and Christie, I just finished binge listening to all three episodes. I really enjoy your sense of humor, storytelling style, and the chemistry between you two. I used to volunteer at BC children's, which I guess is where episode two took place. And I had no idea about the cloud rooms. I just really want to know what happened to Christie at the end had, how did she get out? Did she end up sharing her side of the story to the school would be nice to have another episode for the resolution and conclusion. Anyways, keep it up. I really enjoy it. Thanks. And thank you. UBC women in CS I hope this is anonymous enough and just thank you so much for supporting us from the beginning. And yes, I did end up sharing what happened in the end. It is now episode five. So go check that out and thank you again to UBC women in CS. Thank you. Your comment really means so much to us. All right, bye. For now back to the episode you both mentioned dark places.

Eric: 53:36

Yeah,

OTW Lance: 53:37

No, you're not going to go there. We're almost done. I see a folks. See you

Eric: 53:41

I'm ready. I'm ready.

Kristy Yee: 53:42

let's, let's go there how are we supposed to encourage men to talk about deep shit and to be vulnerable with each other? If we cannot be vulnerable right now?

Eric: 53:55

Oh, I'll be vulnerable, man. I'm an open book, soul man. My darkest spot, this I think was, so this was when I was still in Malaysia and at that point, my money had gone down to a boat. Fuck. Like, you know, when you're over there, I was doing a startup. I'm watching my money go down and then you, you kind of have a limit to yourself. Okay. 5,000. And it goes down to that 3000 and in 2000. So at that point I like no money left. my, my buddy, my business partner, he was deported. like I had to, the startup was failing. I was, I. I was, I was scared of being deported cause I was doing a lot of visa running and it was, it was tough, Matt. And then I was waking up every day and not do all I was doing was just eating the bare minimum amount of food. Cause I was working like a super low paying job at the time. And all I was doing was just working on need and bread and like nothing every day I, at that point and in my mind I was going like, okay, I gotta go home. I gotta find, I can't even get home. I had to find someone to bail me out of, out of Malaysia. I just broke down right there. Cause like I, I knew I had to tell my people in Malaysia to leave. I had to go back home and tell my friends that I didn't make it. They did that didn't wasn't successful. So it was like, at that point I just broke down, just started crying in the shower and the shower sucked too. So cause like, it was one of those stupid ass showers where there's no, like it's just that they only have half a, yeah. It is just some bullshit. I'm like, fuck. Anyway, I was crying, but it was a good cry. It was a good cry and a yeah. Yeah. Because like all that heaviness kinda like sank in right there. Right there, there was a lot of unknowns. I was also like a million miles from home. Cause I didn't really know anybody. my family was on the other side of the world. Right. So it was a tough, tough moment right there. So boom. I just started crying. It was a good cry. Fuck. It was, it was a great cry. I haven't had a cry like that in a long time, so yeah, that was my darkest moment.

OTW Lance: 56:10

you can cry with me, brother. Let's

Eric: 56:12

Oh shit.

OTW Lance: 56:13

My shower, your shower, my shower, your HSA.

Angie Yu: 56:16

Lance will complete the other shower

Eric: 56:18

I'll bring the loofa.

Angie Yu: 56:20

he'll be the missing door.

OTW Lance: 56:22

I can't top that.

Angie Yu: 56:23

you for sharing that, Lance, you can't top that you did mention a dark moment as well.

OTW Lance: 56:27

I did. I did. I, I've had a couple of dark moments in my life. it's, it's hard for me to share. It's just it's so dark. It just brings me into tears thinking about it, but I will share it for you and your listeners, so that you're right. You, we, we have to show that men are vulnerable and that, you know, we, we, we break down and there's times where we need help. So my story, Oh, geez. I go back probably in my early years, like junior high years. So what is that? 13, 14 about there. And I guess it starts, starts out that you know, where we're from, there's a lot of racism. That happens. So a lot of racism, a lot of game picked on at school. just a lot of, a lot of hate inside. So didn't have any friends. And for me, it was like, I was quiet already to begin with. So I didn't, didn't talk a whole lot. but you know, you just kind of keep going through and then things kind of get worse. my parents got divorced. And, you know, Asian parents don't go through divorces, you know, it's very various, there's lots of stigma to that. Right. So, you know, watching my parents, having to go through that with other families, watching them, you know, again, in your own mind, playing out how everyone's judging you know, how your family is. I was super in a dark place. I can talk to, anybody can talk to my mom and dad, obviously, because I knew that they were going through a tough time and being the oldest. So I have two other brothers. I had to try to just keep it together. Right. My youngest brother was too young. Didn't probably didn't really understand too much, but had a lot of questions. my second brother, you know, he's about a year, year and something apart from me. So we both, we both knew what was going on, but it was just, just super tough to, to, to deal with it. And along with that, with. You know, all the, all the bullying at school you know, I thought about just ending my life just because it just seems so hard at the time. and obviously I was scared shitless about killing myself. Didn't know how it was going to do it. Tried it a couple of times, like, you know, just trying to suffocate yourself can pull it off just cause you know, it was just I dunno, I can get myself to go that far. Right. And then, you know, thought about you know, cutting yourself. Cause you, you see in it and you're just like, nah, it's too painful. You know? And just thinking about blood, I'm like, nah, I can't do that. So yeah, it was just super tough. I think I went through like almost two to three years of that and. I'm glad there wasn't social media back then. Cause I think it would have been even harder for me. I think the one thing that helped me was that I did have a really good friend and, and, and he helped me in the sense, not by talking about, but just, just getting me out of my world, you know, just get me out of that, that, that world that I was in and making me forget about where I was at that moment and just letting me be, you know, a teenager to be able to still have fun with someone. And I think that helped me, you know, trying to just get my life saying, Hey, you know what? It's, it's, it's bad, but you'll get, you'll get through this. And. And I'm happy that you know, I'm happy that I had him in my life to, to be able to walk me through that. And just, you know, I know he does, you know, we're kids, you know, we're in our teens. I know in his mind, you know, I don't know if he knew whether or not he's helped me out to this far to this day, but I've, I've often told him, you know, if it wasn't for him and his family, I may be one of these days. my thoughts would have been successful and, and those attempts would have been successful. So I'm, I'm glad I'm still here and able to share this story with some of your listeners. So anybody out there that needs help, you know, reach out it's, it's dark it can get really dark and you might think that you're all alone out there. But, but you're not. And, and I know there's some good people and I have faith that there are good people out there that will help you, you know? And don't be afraid to ask for help. Although, like I say, I was 13. I didn't know what it was, but I was happy. I knew I was happy going there and I always wanted to go there. Maybe that was my way of asking for help by saying, Hey, can I go to this person's house? You know, I want to go there and play. And that was my way of getting out. So, you know, if you're there, if you're you're, you're in this hole, just reach out and, and, and look for something good. I know there's lots of good in this world and don't think that there's, and don't think that the world's against you because there's this life you just, there's just so much to offer in this life. So, yeah, that's my story.

Kristy Yee: 1:02:09

Holy fucks. Thank you for sharing that. I think.

Angie Yu: 1:02:13

so my first thought is like your common following Eric stories, like, Oh, I don't know if I can top that. And.

Kristy Yee: 1:02:22

Yeah, it's tough to madness. Top two.

Angie Yu: 1:02:25

yeah,

Kristy Yee: 1:02:25

Sorry, Eric.

Angie Yu: 1:02:27

the thing

Kristy Yee: 1:02:27

Your story is valid too.

Angie Yu: 1:02:30

The pain that you both felt are both absolutely valid because that was at the pain that you felt. And for Eric, the way for him to get out of the situation was like, you need a little bit of financial help. Of course, you know, the fear of failure and the fear of telling your friends that those were all huge detractors from your mental health as well. but in, in your case lens, it was the, the loneliness and the, and the actual emotional health sorry, the emotional need that was difficult to satisfy. And that's why you had those thoughts and I've, I've been in your place. And I completely understand where you're coming from. So thank you for sharing that and like, Both of your stories are like, it's okay to fail at something. Even if you're a man, because men tend to value their careers more and it's okay to fail and admit that, Hey, this thing didn't work out for me. I'm going to try out a different venture. And if you're a man and you're struggling with your emotions and you're struggling with your mental health, that's okay too. Like they're both valid. Even if one, you can't see, they're both valid.

Eric: 1:03:36

Yeah, I failed a lot, man. The amount of chapters I could write on that is crazy, but you just keep coming. You, you, you, you move on, you know, you keep coming back. Sometimes you can surround yourself with positive people as well, too. They can help you and talk to you and, you know, make you keep going. Right. Like I mean, for me, it's true. I have never been in Lanza situation only because I. You know, I've never experienced that in that particular regard. And I noticed it's very interesting too, how we both shared our stories. Mine was I was sharing a story of kind of like emotion, but I was also making jokes out of it and stuff like that. It was more, I guess it was my way of sharing was like a more lighthearted way. Lance went, this guy went full Bruce Wayne style. And but it was also his way of sharing it too. So it was like two different styles of sharing, but the pain or the emotions that we felt were, I mean, I also had a very, it was like a heavy sense on me. I, like I said, I don't cry really. Only in amazing great sports moments and I'll tear up a little bit, but, and like sometimes in some romance movies sometimes, but that cry was like was a deep one. So it was both, was it, we had our low situations and it's, but we, we, we, we hurdled over them. We leaped over them. Right. And it was via the support of what helped us to was, was support. And that's super key. Try never to keep it to yourself. If you can like me, I keep a lot of stuff to myself. I that's, that's me. It's, it's hard. But if you can talk to people and share it, because when you talk to them, you have this weight that can, that you can pass. If you can let go a little bit, because you're able to share it with somebody and as long as they can talk with you about it and stuff, it's, it will always be better. Then just keep it to yourself.

Kristy Yee: 1:05:46

yeah, earlier I was joking. I'm like Eric, you've been topped.

Eric: 1:05:51

yo, what? That was, man, this guy Preuss waned it.

Kristy Yee: 1:05:54

I almost want to know. Not almost, I do want to take that back because everybody's low points is different. We really shouldn't be comparing each other's low points. Because your low point is going to be your low point, Eric, like that's, that's you in your deepest pit of pain. And that was the darkest spot for you. no denying that amount of emotion and everything that had erupted in that moment when you were in the shower and crying that heavy cry that you don't experience very often, that's some serious shit. And for Lance, pit, where you were, has, you know, there's, there's nothing to compare that with. Eric's it's like, you know, apples and oranges, right. Where you are, I think both equally lonely because Eric you're on the other side of the world, this, all the shit is happening, Lance, like you were home. But it's a different type of loneliness here because you weren't able to share your story. You weren't able to, you have the weight of the world on your shoulders. You had to be this big brother, right? You had to all these expectations on you. You have to hold it all together. You, you, you, this is all new. You're a fucking teenager, you know, you're 14, right. But you feel like you gotta be the man at that moment, but you just, you cannot. And it's heavy. They're both heavy. So I think what I just did earlier comparing because I did, I subconsciously did and we all laughed and I think we all did in some way, but then I thought that's not fair at all. To compare these two

OTW Kristy: 1:07:49

low

Kristy Yee: 1:07:49

points.

OTW Lance: 1:07:51

For sure. I agree with you. And, and I think that's one of the keys is, you know, as, as we look at people, we can't dismiss people's what they feel as a, as a low point. And I think that's what happens a lot of times, right. That we look at, Oh, it's a teenager. Oh man. Yeah. They go through their teenage years and, and, and they'll get through it. They'll, they'll, there'll be, you know, there'll be fine, but I think that's where the importance comes around. Like you say, right. Everyone treats and handles. Stress differently. Right? One thing that, you know, it's, you know, if I spilled water on me, you know, I know no big deal, but maybe to someone else that's like gonna throw them over the top. And they thinking about ending their life because of something that we think is so simple. And that's why mental health mental awareness is, is so key to realizing don't dismiss. Oh, because you think that it's not a big deal to you, right. Because, Oh yeah. You know, I've been through lots of that. That's, you know, it's no big deal. He'll get through it. But at this moment, at this point for that person, it feels like it's life ending moment for them. Right. So I think for some of the listeners, you know, again, If you're the person that's feeling the need to get help, get help. And if you're not that person, but realizing, look, something's not right with this person is a little bit off or she's a little bit off. Maybe I need to give a hand or you understand the situation, you know, what's going on with this person, but you need to give them that, that, that, that time and space to understand how it's making this person feel, how, how is it elevated to a point where wow, this person is he's, he's gonna, he's gonna lose it or she's gonna lose it or no, he's, he's coping with it. He just needs, you know, just some time to himself, or maybe we need to do this or that, but recognize that right. And not dismiss it like, Oh, Eric, that's no big deal, man. Look at what Lance had to go through. I mean, sure. Everyone can look at it in a. Million ways. Right. But key is, is, is his importance, his low level, not as important as my low-level no, it's, it's equally important. Right? I think that's w w what we got to take out of that

Kristy Yee: 1:10:20

totally. And I think, you know, both, both as a person who is listening to someone else's story to be cognizant of that judgment, but also as someone who wants to perhaps. Talk about it, you know, you're, you're in a bad place right now and you want to talk about it, but you feel, you feel like, Oh, my problem is actually not that bad. No, you start judging yourself. You start judging your own problems. You're like, Oh yeah. There's people have it way worse than me. You know? Like people have lost parents, lost jobs, you know, like I live in this, I live in a privilege, Western based society. There's always going to be people worse than me and my problems are not real problems. And I think that thinking is what makes us keep to ourselves because we feel like we are problems are not actual problems. We don't validate our own pain.

Angie Yu: 1:11:22

Yup. And I I'm going to throw the Asian immigrant parents spin on it is because our experience as kids, if we complained to our parents, they invalidate us. They're like, well, that's nothing compared to what we had to go through all your tire while I'm tired. Oh, you don't have time make some time, you know, like we're used to be invalidated, like we're used to that. So we think that that's the way it goes, but we got to learn that shit. We got to unlearn that shit together as a collective.

OTW Lance: 1:11:56

agreed much agreed. Yeah. I, I couldn't have said it better. Yep.

Angie Yu: 1:12:01

Thank you guys so much for sharing your story. I'm so glad that we were able to be here for you to share your story. Because I do think it is really important for us to sometimes tear down that wall a little bit. Like we all joke around, like, it's a, it's a defense mechanism, it's a coping mechanism. sometimes you just look at a cut the bullshit and just like talk about the real issue. So I'm really, really glad that you guys opened up with us.

OTW Lance: 1:12:27

Yeah, I thank you for the opportunity because I'm pretty sure I've never really shared that story with a lot of people. So now that it's on the air for everyone and all of your listeners to listen to, I hope at least you can take something out of what what I've learned and, you know hopefully that's helped some of your listeners

Eric: 1:12:47

Yeah. And, you know, plan a little better if you decide to move abroad to, to to start to start a business. Okay. Don't get to my situation. That's all I'm going to say on

Angie Yu: 1:13:00

Or just ask for it, you know? Yeah. If you do ask for help you know, there's a lot of people that get like what you said earlier, Eric just get good people in your life.

Eric: 1:13:09

that's right. That is very key. I mean, I've shared my story to a couple of people before, but now I get to share a ton more people and I love it. I want them to hear my story. It's

Angie Yu: 1:13:20

I agree.

Eric: 1:13:21

great. You know, next stop sexual fantasies, and then we'll just keep going from there.

Kristy Yee: 1:13:28

this is why the, the

Angie Yu: 1:13:29

you guys have to come back onto our show. Yeah. You guys had to come back for, you know, other episodes because we do really, really value the perspective from, you know, someone who's different, a little bit

Kristy Yee: 1:13:40

from dudes. We need

Angie Yu: 1:13:42

yeah. We need some dudes on here. Yeah. So on that note to our listeners, our poop troops if you guys want to check out, you know, if y'all want to check out more of Lance and Eric's stuff, then head on over to off the walk.

Kristy Yee: 1:14:01

Thank you again, guys, for being on the show, you guys are coming back. We're just going to say it to the internet. So you can't say no now, because it's going to come back and we'll, we'll chat some more, any last parting words to our guests

OTW Lance: 1:14:17

no, just thank you so much for having us it's it was, it was fun. fun, getting, getting all, you know warm and fuzzy inside and being able to share a lot with your, you know, with you guys. So thank you again for having us on your show.

Eric: 1:14:34

Yes. Thank you. We can't wait to come back on again

Angie Yu: 1:14:38

Yes, it was fun. Honorable,

Kristy Yee: 1:14:40

Oh my God.

Angie Yu: 1:14:42

sorry, not sorry. Okay. I'm going to stop record now.

Eric: 1:15:18

now.

Kristy Yee: 1:15:18

Oh, I'm I'm not stuffing up it

OTW Lance: 1:15:20

oh, are we stopping? Are we not stopping?