26. Authenticity, Trauma Triggers, and Sex for Validation ft. Lisa Sam-Townsend

The lack of male role models in Lisa's childhood led her to use sexuality to get men’s attention. Her mom physically abused her and they have a complicatedly civil relationship. We talk about forgiveness, coming to terms with childhood abuse, and her view on sex.   WARNING: detailed descriptions about childhood physical abuse, child death, and sexual abuse 

Highlights:  

• How to listen to yourself vs listening to others  
• Unlearning being a people pleaser   
• Chasing boys to feel loved   
• Using my sexuality to get what I was lacking   
• Why constant positivity can be toxic   
• Forgiving mom for being physically abusive   

Takeaways:  

• We don't always have to hustle all the f.ing time  
• Unlearn the standard definition of success and let that shit go    
• Forgiving someone is more for yourself than for the other person  

Episode Mention:

• 9. Depression, Distractions, and Dopamine 

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Transcript

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 0:00

Okay. So I will probably swear a lot. I know you guys will be all good, but I just thought I'd throw that out there anyways.

Angie Yu: 0:05

Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 0:05

We always give our guests

Angie Yu: 0:07

that warning.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 0:09

Yeah.

Angie Yu: 0:09

He actually encourages.

Kristy Yee: 0:11

We always have to remember every time we publish, like make sure we hit. Explicit. Otherwise we're going to get flagged.

Angie Yu: 0:17

Yeah.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 0:18

Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 0:44

Welcome to another episode of shit. We don't tell mom this Christie. This is Angie today. We have Lisa, Sam Townson with us all the way from Edmonton. we're going to add, we're going to get deep and have a good conversation. So Lisa, you also have a podcast.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 1:02

there's like two episodes. It's one of those things where like, During quarantine, you're just like, Oh, I'm going to do this and this and this. Right. And I'm also very impulsive. So I'm like, why not? And then like, pod fade is a totally thing, you know? Like you just like start a few episodes and then you fade out. But that doesn't mean I'm. I still want to do that, but you know, a lot of shit going on. Actually my thing, like I'm like obsessed with Biographies autobiographies and I love hearing other people's stories. Books and podcasts have been such a savior for me. So I think one of the things I struggle with my podcast, it's like, I was like, Oh, I want to tell my stories, but it's kind of like, you can sit there and just talk about yourself by yourself. So one day, one day, like I said, you guys are an inspiration. I'm like, Oh, I'm like, this is what I could be doing right now.

Angie Yu: 1:48

And like we said, in our podcasts, like everything just kind of. The universe knows when you're ready. Cheesy as that sounds,

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 1:57

it sounds like, you know, like the universe works in mysterious ways. Like it's true. I think the most important thing is to not force things and

Kristy Yee: 2:05

also like, just do you,

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 2:08

that's really interesting because, okay. So when blogs were like popular I was going through a phase. I was going through like some difficult times and I'm like, I'm going to start blogging. Cause I was falling all these bloggers, but that kind of just boiled down to be like, Oh, I want to do what everyone else is doing, you know? And so just do you it's funny cause. I would sign my blog just to you and everything will fall into place. And that has been kind of the model of my life in so many different ways. like I'm a nail tech. So my business registered business name is actually just do you. I have just a, you tattooed on me. And it's just a reminder of just do what makes you happy. The saying just to you wasn't as significant to me then as it is now. Cause it means so much more in so many different aspects of my life, so yeah.

Angie Yu: 2:54

You know, when you hear things like. Life is a journey you're like, well, okay. That makes sense. Like logically all these quote unquote cheesy quotes make a lot of sense, but it's not until you've actually truly felt it emotionally like

Kristy Yee: 3:07

internalize it. Right. Otherwise it's just kind of like bullshit with glitter

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 3:11

on it. Reflection is very important too. Right? You're like, Oh you know, everything happens for a reason. You're like, okay, whatever. But what that means to me now is that anything that happened, Oprah said it best things don't happen to you. They happen for you

Kristy Yee: 3:27

The term, just to you means so much more now in so many different ways. Could you give us some examples?

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 3:33

Well, you know what they say, you just got to stop giving too many fucks, and I found that in the last couple of years I become more genuine, authentic, and not in who I am and not so much what other people. Think I should be who I should be unlike, falling into being boxed in, into a category, like what does it mean to be a good child growing up in an Asian family? For example, you guys know very well, what I'm talking about. and even like, as a nail tech, one thing I really struggled with In the more recent years, I would watch YouTube videos. Like binge-watch like all hours. I was obsessed. It's all I can think about. But it got to a point where I was just like, how do I grow my business? How do I grow my business? But I didn't realize that my idea of success was what I was seeing on social media. And then I was like, wait, I'm like, that's not me. So I dabble, I dabble in like, you know, like once in a while, like I do recreational drugs. And so one thing that happened to me that was really, really eye opening for me was how, that's not the life I want to live. Like, yeah, I love doing nails, but that doesn't mean I want to go do nails fly across the world and do nails for celebrities. Like, that's just not my thing. Right. And so it's just a matter of just really thinking, like what's going to make what makes me happy as opposed to what. Other people think I should be doing. Cause people meet me and they have a perception of me. I was on an acid trip and I had just had a real epiphany about like boxes boxes kept coming to me. And I was just like, man, I live in this box when it comes to like life in my family. I live in this box when it comes to my professional world. And even like life at home, like my living situation I live, I live with my inlaws. And so I don't necessarily have all the personal space that I wish I had. And so that was another box. I felt like every aspect of my life, I had to be like in a neat tidy box, you know what I mean? It was after that. And I was like, man, I'm like, no, I'm like, I'm just going to everything I'm going to do. I'm just going to do, do from like, because like intention, right? Like do it. Like, because I want to like, out of love, not because people are expecting me to do it or like, Oh, Hey, like, you know, I got to buy this, the newest designer bag because that's what people do, but that's totally not me.

Kristy Yee: 5:48

And it's so easy to fall into that. Because you know, you open it up on social media, but then also your family would contribute to that. Cause my mom is so she will, she wants to have those handbags because it's a status symbol or whatever, right. Yeah. Without even thinking like you're, you're getting all these messagings from everywhere. So it's easy to just kind of fall into that trap of what

Angie Yu: 6:09

other people

Kristy Yee: 6:11

tell you, what successes

Angie Yu: 6:12

or tell you what

Kristy Yee: 6:13

you should be doing in life. So you have to like, so consciously sit in. Okay. Check in. Is that really what I want to do? Like is that really gonna make me happy?

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 6:24

I think the one thing that quarantine has really. Force people to do is kind of like sit back and reflect on. What's really important. And for me, I'm just like, okay, like what is my idea of successful, like business and like personal professional and personal and it's It's like about a work life balance, right? Like, you know, people are like all about the hustle. Like you want to hustle, you want to work your ass off those late nights and do all that by all means, you know, but for me, that's not what I'm about and that's not the life I'm thriving for. So I guess like, just to you, it's just like, yeah. I mean, it's very broad but basically it's just pretty much like, do what makes you happy and not. What not trying to fulfill what other people's ideas are of what you should be doing.

Angie Yu: 7:10

And it's so much easier than say, cause even when we have been through that journey, cause I'm the same, like I'm still trying to figure out what makes me happy. And so that phrase like that, even for me, like just a year or like fluff yourself or focus on yourself, do it's your life live it for yourself? Do what makes you happy? I still get confused sometimes because I'm like, I don't know if. I want this one, because I think that society thinks I want this.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 7:38

I think that's where boundaries is so important, Like boundaries, whether it's like with setting boundaries with your mom. And sometimes it's harder because you live with her. but it's just so important to just, you know, do what is true to you. And. I make it sound a lot more simple than it is, but I just truly was like, you know what? I'm going to do things from the heart because I want to not, because I feel like I have to, or I feel obligated to.

Angie Yu: 8:04

Was there a pivotal, was there like an event that kind of. that Pushed you towards that journey of like finding what makes you happy? Like what was there a pivotal moment where you go,

Kristy Yee: 8:15

I need to stop doing shit

Angie Yu: 8:16

for other people and I just start doing shit for myself.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 8:19

So aside from that acid trip, by the way, I was thinking about this and I was just like, you know, I noticed in the last few years, I've changed a lot. Like, just like the way I see things and carry myself. So for example my girlfriends and I, when we used to travel, like, I remember like we were going to Spain and we're like, Oh, what does everybody wear? You know, like we have to like be on trend and blah, blah, blah. Right. So like, When I was going to New York, I think, I can't remember last summer, the summer before with my husband, I was like, Oh, I'm going to shop for some new clothes. I'm like, what do people in New York where I'm like, wait, I'm like, why am I going to buy clothes? Just to impress people in New York? Like, first of all, like they don't fucking know me, so they probably don't even care. And second of all, I'm like, why don't I just wear what I normally wear? You know? And then I bought, I had the shirt made and it said, YAG. Why EG on it, right. To represent Edmonton in New York. And my husband's like, Oh, he's like, that's cool. I like that. And he was kind of impressed, like Oh, where did that come from? So I've been married almost four years. I think this, the switching me may have happened when, after we got married because I was always the person to chase guys like I'm always if I meet somebody I'm like, Oh, maybe he's my next boyfriend. But after getting married, I said to my husband, I'm like, you're not going anywhere. I'm just going to do me because like, I don't need to be impressing people. And I guess a part of me subconsciously was maybe impressing him as well. Although I know I don't need to cause he's already impressed by me, but, but I, I don't know. I think. When I think back and I was like, maybe like, you know, like, Hey, I'm married. I don't have to worry about like, impressing, other people, because he's not going to go anywhere. And now I'm anchored and I am free to be myself because he's not going anywhere. Not that I was ever afraid of like losing him, but I think subconsciously like, You know what I mean? He'll secure. I

Angie Yu: 10:17

think, because you feel secure, you feel like you're secure enough to be yourself. Like, you know, and when you are yourself, like he was so impressed that you were this YEG shirt and when you're authentically yourself, like he's just like madly, falling in love with you again,

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 10:31

And it's always, you think it's gradual, but when you look back, then you're like, Oh, that's what happened. Or like, you know, that's when I noticed the shift, but when you're in it, you don't really think about it.

Angie Yu: 10:45

We grew up, especially like, you know, in Chinese culture and a lot of Asian cultures and a lot of other non Asian cultures as well. Like there's so much emphasis on face and decorum and because that's how we're raised. It's really hard for us to listen to ourselves. Like you said, like, sometimes it's just about the listening to your own intuition and listening to your own feelings. but because we're raised with like all these people telling us what to do, and then you become an adult and you're like, why, why is no one telling me, telling me what to do? Tell me what to do. And then you're like, shit. I have to tell myself what to do. And then that's when you're like, okay, do I trust this feeling? Do I trust that feeling and all these feelings that you used to ignore? Because you're like, Oh, well, I just did what society told me to do. And now you're like, shit. I have to like, listen to myself. And that's, that's a really hard thing to do.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 11:31

I think a lot of it has to do with like unlearning all the things that, you know, you, the only thing you knew growing up, right? I mean, I Grew up being such a people pleaser, if you invited me to three birthday parties in one night, I would go to all three of them to make an appearance. And I remember one night I said to my husband, like, I don't want to go. And he's like, then don't. And I was like, Oh, it's that simple? Like, cause you feel obligated if you don't want to go, don't go.

Kristy Yee: 11:57

There's that option?

Angie Yu: 11:58

You can say,

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 12:00

you can say no. Yeah, for sure.

Angie Yu: 12:02

I think that's so funny.

Kristy Yee: 12:04

Oh crap.

Angie Yu: 12:04

What was my train of thought?

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 12:08

Funny, I go off on tangents. I'm like, what was their question again? I

Angie Yu: 12:12

do the same, like, I don't know if you noticed, but like when we first started recording, Kristy used to have to be like, all right, Angie, I'm just going to pull you back. Like, cause I do the same thing. Like I'm the same as you, like, I get bored really easily. I have a budget and hobbies all going on at the same time. And Christie was always like, okay, edgy can just come here. Like, Oh, I remember now. So I think that's actually a really incredible of you to be so introspective when you're reading and when you're listening to these podcasts, you're like, Oh, like you're, you're putting yourself in that shoe and trying to see what lessons you can take away. It's a great trait and and that trade you money cannot buy.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 12:48

So like growing up, I've always considered myself, you know, the term, like banana, right. And I always had Caucasian friends and it wasn't until listen to your podcast and Angela's podcast that I was just like, you know, like getting perspectives from the Asian side. And then I was just like, Oh shit. And it like forced me to really kind of like dig deep as to why I didn't embrace, embrace my Asian side. And I think like at a young age I felt Alienated from my family in a way, because I had divorced family. Like my parents, my family was the only one that was divorced. And my mom was a black sheep. And then in turn, I was the black sheep. But it wasn't until like listening to stories from other Asian perspectives that it forced me to reflect and that's why we do this. When we share our stories. Like, I mean, it's cliche, but if you can help one person, like, would that be worth it? Right. And know that you're helping at least one person here.

Kristy Yee: 13:45

When we first started this podcast. When I first invited Angie to my house in my kitchen, I'm like, yo, you want to do a podcast? What is our goal? Like, cause I'm very like, okay, what are we doing? What is our purpose? My thing was like, okay, let's both write it down separately

Angie Yu: 14:02

and then we'll

Kristy Yee: 14:03

talk to each other about it. Cause I didn't want to bias the other person. And then we ended up in similar way saying we just want to help one person. Like if one person was able to take our story and then feel like they've been heard or feel that it's okay to go to therapy or feel that they're not alone in this world. That's all we wanted was to have that message hit some one, this one person's heart.

Angie Yu: 14:30

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. For saying that because yeah, now I feel all warm and fuzzy and my hands are sweating. Chatting with you, Lisa. Like, I could tell, like, I don't know how to put this nicely, but I can tell you've been through some shit because there's this, like, there's this idea that like people who are very introspective who are very empathetic because they have been through some shit they're like, I would never want her to another human being because being hurt, like that is just the worst feeling in the world. Yeah. And I, this burning question on my mind and is like your relationship with your mom, like, what are you not telling your mom?

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 15:27

Well, so really set boundaries with my mom. I'm the oldest of four comes from a divorced family. So I was pretty much like, you know, the second parent, right. And I'm with my mom. like I say, like out of the four of us, I have the strongest relationship with her, but I've also really had to put boundaries up. Cause it got to a point where we were in the same room and she would be telling me. What I shouldn't be should, and shouldn't be doing with my life. And then I would get into it with her about hers. And we both were like, Hey, how about you just mind your business and all my, my business. I'm like, okay, cool. So she hits me up. She's like, Hey, can you pick up groceries from them? Like, sure. She's like, just leave it on the back step. Oh my out. You know? but with my mom Okay, hold on. Kleenex. I'll need this. my relationship with my mom I used there used to be a lot of resentment, but you know, through, I guess those like start early on. I moved out in early age at like 19, because I was partying a lot and she's like, stop cheating this place, like a hotel. I'm like, okay, I want to move out. See ya. so I don't have a super close relationship with my mom, but I do have a relationship with her sister. I'll go to her house and she'll share plant clippings, or she'll be like, Oh, you want some lunch? And I remember sitting down with her for lunch and I asked her I'm like, what was my mom like, what was your life like? Cause we're Chinese from Vietnam. And I was like, what was your life like growing up, like living in the country with like one of 12 kids, you know? And so she started just saying like, Oh, grandma was like grandma and grandpa was super strict. And your mom Your grandma and grandpa actually let mom move into the city to go to school in the city, to live with my great grandma. And I was like, Oh, how does she meet my dad? And then so she's like, I don't know if you know, but the reason your parents got married was because she was pregnant with you. And to some people they'll be like, Oh fuck, I was an accident. But I was just like, for me, I was just like, she got married because she was pregnant with me. I think she was like 22. And then it was just like this light bulb. And I was just like, I was like, okay. So I realized that because she was married at such a young age when she wasn't in love and she wasn't ready to be a mom that when my parents divorced, you know, at the time I was like, Oh, my mom is choosing men over me over her children. But I realized now that like, she was a child herself when she had me. And so she never got to live any of that. And as soon as the opportunity arose, like that's what she did, you know, she's like, Hey, like my kids are older now. And like, you know, I'm going to date and like, whatever. And and I also realized like, Hey, the way my grandparents raised and they raised. With an iron fist. And I think it's not uncommon in the Asian culture to do that. and I was just like, Oh shit. Okay. that explains a whole lot, you know, I kind of fell in her footsteps in the sense that I was chasing men as well to fill that void. And I stopped holding a grudge, against my mom, like a long time ago when I was listening to a podcast and the rock was talking about his relationship with his dad he was talking about how, he realized that his dad raised him and loved him the best way he knew how. And that really stuck with me. I'm like my mom didn't know any different. She didn't have that example. Like how would she know to raise me that way with love and like in a healthy family and all of that, you know?

Kristy Yee: 18:44

Have you ever had a conversation with mom about all of this?

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 18:49

Yes, but there's that language barrier, right? So like she was asking me, we were in the car listening to radio and they're talking about anxiety. She's like, what does anxiety mean? I'm like, I don't know how to explain it too. And yeah, I mean, I've had these conversations, I've told her, like I used to do drugs all the time and like, you know, like, even like my, you know, past with like abuse and stuff like that. I mean, I don't want to say all she had to say, but her response was like, I'm really sorry, but I don't think she really knows what she's apologizing for. I don't think she really realizes like how her actions, how our upbringing has affected us as adults and why we have an, a strange relationship with her, I mean, as an adult, I'm like come to terms with everything and like no longer holds resentment. And so I'm like, yeah, I'll tell her everything, but she doesn't really, really understand. So I'm kinda like, okay, that's fine. I think though, it's more important that I understand where she was coming from and I find peace with that.

Kristy Yee: 19:52

Yeah. I think the fact that you're able to not hold a grudge against your mom. And like you said, you're able to find that peace with it. I think that's the most important because. As much as communication is important, we can't change another person or their perspectives. And language barrier is a huge thing. I totally relate.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 20:15

Yeah. And another thing too is like with like with the resentment. I mean, I mean, I'm sure you've heard it before, but I forgave for me. So I can find peace with myself and not constantly have that eating away at me. They say like, you control your thoughts and then therefore you control your life. Right. So for me, I'm like, why would I give another person power over that? And it really sucked like all the shit that I went through, but like, I'm here today. I'm here now and I'm better. I feel like I'm a better person for it. I didn't, I didn't. Forgive her, because I felt like I should forgive her. I did it because I needed some peace in my life.

Kristy Yee: 20:54

Yeah. Like you, you didn't forgive her for her. You forgive her for yourself.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 20:59

Yup. Absolutely. I

Kristy Yee: 21:00

Lisa, you mentioned going through some abuse. Hmm. Are you comfortable going into some details about that?

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 21:07

Yeah, totally. So, I mean, you know, the term daddy issues, right? So I didn't have that male role model in my life. And my mom was a single mom at the time she had three kids and she was working two jobs. so my mom would have like babies, right. And so I would stay at the babysitter's house and she had three grown sons and yeah. And so I was looking for affection and I didn't, I was too young to know. I honestly don't, I don't even remember how old I was like, maybe like 11, 12. yeah, I was looking for affection and I was getting affection, like. and then it kind of led to like, you know, chasing boys when I was in school and then like, you know, having relationships with men that were like way too old for me. I mean, they say trauma comes from like growing up and that's just one of many, I mean, there was like sexual abuse. There was physical abuse and yeah, it's really interesting because like I knew that going in into this conversation and that would be like, you know, that is a, definitely a topic that would come up and I didn't really know how I was going to dress it, or, but I guess if you had more specific questions that might help a little

Angie Yu: 22:18

bit.

Kristy Yee: 22:18

Where are the, the abuse, all the different types of abuse. Was that coming from the men that you had relationships with?

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 22:26

Actually, the men that I had relationships with? no, there was, I mean, All the sexual abuse I experienced was at a young age. And then I mean, and then I became sexually active at a very young age. it's because, that's all, I knew how to get affection, get attention from men specifically. Right. And Yeah. And I never like physically, so abuse, no like physical abuse, Kate disclaimer, like the sexual abuse was never anyone in my family. and physical abuse, like I said, like my grandma parents ruled with an iron fist growing up. Right. And so that's all my mom knew. And so, one of my earliest memories. Is like being physically abused and it's really interesting because it wasn't, like, I always knew that was a thing that, but it wasn't until like maybe a year ago that I actually like was watching something and on TV and like got like hardcore triggered by. And I was just like, I was watching rustling of all things and. Yeah, I don't, it's really, you know, I knew I was like open to have this conversation. I totally am, but I'm just kinda like, I don't really know where to go with that.

Angie Yu: 23:35

So for myself, like

Kristy Yee: 23:37

it's, it's

Angie Yu: 23:38

weird, right? Because. Growing up here, like, I've heard a lot of stories of people who were born and raised here and they were, you know, physically punished by their parents. And a lot of people are like, they just brush it off. Like, yeah, that's just the way, like, you know, our parents do it and I'm always like, Hmm. Yeah. I guess we all like repressed it a little bit or suppress it a little bit. Cause we don't really want to think that our parents did it out of hate. Like did it out of any negative intentions, right? Like we, we try to rationalize our parents' behavior, but it doesn't take away the pain.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 24:10

Oh. Not

Angie Yu: 24:12

from me. Like, I. Yeah, my, my mom used to discipline me a lot. My, my dad never disciplined. He's just like the most chill person ever. But my mom did all the discipline planning because my dad never put any effort into raising me. So my mom used to discipline me a lot in China. And then when we moved to Canada, she stopped because she was told that it's not allowed in Canada.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 24:36

So she stopped

Angie Yu: 24:36

it immediately.

Kristy Yee: 24:37

I mean, it's not allowed, not allowed yet social services could knock them down, but like growing up, like, you know, we're not gonna say anything about it. And like, I remember one of my earliest memories was. Like, I mean early where I don't think I could walk, so it's kind of in and out. So I remember this was when my mom and dad were still living together. My mom had me in her arms and what I remember was my dad. He took the telephone, like those big honking things back in the early nineties. And he took it and he like threw it at me who is in my mom's arms. So I don't really know if you threw it

Angie Yu: 25:13

at me or at her.

Kristy Yee: 25:14

Right. And then started like, try to beat the shit out of her while she's holding me. And then she had to run out of the house and go across the street to the neighbors and like take refuge there. And that's one of my earliest memories of my parents together because I don't have a lot of memories of them together because. They divorced when I was really young

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 25:33

and you thought it was normal to live in separate houses.

Angie Yu: 25:39

And

Kristy Yee: 25:39

so, you know, like, I don't. I like, I don't know what the details of your physical abuse was, but I just remember being beaten by my dad is normal. Like it's a normal thing. Yeah. You know, and then my mom would also, she would hit me as well, but like, she will take like, I dunno, rulers or whatever, and like smack me as part of discipline. My dad, I think because he was struggling a lot in his own like mental issues. I think sometimes he was just taking out anger at me. So they were different types of physical abuse, but there was always like some sort of beating, punching, slapping Using props,

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 26:19

and like a feather duster.

Kristy Yee: 26:21

Oh, okay. Mom does feather, dusters and rulers at home. I remember I had these flags, like my dad had these. It was really weird. He had them like a Taiwan flag, like a cat, and it was the end

Angie Yu: 26:34

of the flag, the pole

Kristy Yee: 26:35

on the flag. He would take that and he would smack me with it or he would take his belt. He would like, and smack me with the belt. my mom did a lot of feather, dusters, rulers and coat hangers.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 26:46

For me it was never like for no reason. I mean the first, the earliest memory I have. About like getting beat was my mom sleeping and I took my mom's change purse and me and my little sister, or went across the street, I go to the store and then we would come back, eat all our candy and then go back. But I lock the keys in the house one time. And then, so her disciplining me was a way of like teaching me, like, Hey, don't steal. You know, and like, yes, there are better ways to go about that, but that's all she knew. Right? Like, and I don't think I knew the word for this at the time, like anxiety, but I remember going to a friend's house and I opened her fridge and a basket of raspberries fell on the floor. I was so apologetic. I was like, Oh my God, I'm so sorry. And she's like, Lisa. They're just raspberries. And I was just like, Oh my God. Because growing up, like that would be a big deal. In terms of abuse, like my parents had a very volatile relationship. Like there was always constantly yelling and you know, you're talking about like, He never took it out on me, but he would like, we used to have these coffee tables, those old school, coffee tables with glass tops. He smashed them all. And it's just like, you know, and it's really interesting. Cause like I mentioned, I live with my inlaws and they never fight if their voice ever goes up. Like if I've ever hear that tone in their voice, it gives me instant anxiety. And it brings me back to what it was like listening to my parents because it's been so long. Since I've heard that, but even now to hear it, it's crazy. It's crazy.

Kristy Yee: 28:20

Yeah.

Angie Yu: 28:21

That's like, I don't like brooms for the exact same reason. I never had a broom in my house. When I live with my ex, he. Bought a broom to sweep the balcony. And I was just like so pissed off about it. And he was just like, it's just a broom, but it's because my grandma used to chase me around with a broom to hit me. And I I'm very fortunate because my parents are. they're they were never that physical with me. Like my mom never used a prop. She would, she would hit me with her hand, but then it didn't hurt. So she just started pinching me. Yeah. Like, like grabbing my, I saw it and then like twisting it. And that was like her way of punishing me. And I was never punished for doing anything like. Stealing or anything like that, because if I did do anything like that, I would always get away with it. Like I was a smart kid and I was like a smarty pants. So every time I talked back, that's like, I used to get. It's like punished so much for talking back. And my grandma, I used to talk back to her so much, so she would just literally chase me with a broom. And then obviously when she catches up to me, then it's like, you know, boom, boom, boom, boom. My broom like stays outside. Cause I'm like, you're not allowed inside.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 29:29

And my control over you.

Angie Yu: 29:32

Yeah. I control you broom. You have no control over me.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 29:37

I think, you know, the fact that we're sitting here, like, I mean, like we're not laughing about it, but that we are able to laugh about it is very important. I think it's really important to, I mean, obviously these are serious things, but you don't want to. You have to make light of it. You have to approach life with a sense of humor. Otherwise it's going to eat you alive. Exactly.

Angie Yu: 29:57

And I told Christie this story before, but it's like, when I hear my parents laughing about the stories that they grew up with, then I'm, that's like that clicking for me to where I'm like, yeah, my parents are fucked up. Like they've seen some fucked up shit in their life. And. The things that they've done and they've put me through, it's like nothing compared to what they've been through and they laugh about stuff like that. And I'm always like, so this is the example you know, I'm just gonna throw out content warning. This is very graphic and very deeply upsetting, but my dad's a best friend. He lives on the Vancouver Island and he came over to visit once and they have a daughter as well. And she came here when she was much younger. So she doesn't really speak mandarin they were all kind of drinking and talking, and I was just like listening to them, talk about it. And his friend, he came from a very poor family. So he was a what we call in Chinese, I shell minutia, which means like a stunning law, but that's like, A son-in-law that becomes the, the woman's side of the family instead of the other way around. Cause you know, in Chinese, like the daughter gets sent to the husband's family.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 31:03

Yeah. Being a daughter.

Angie Yu: 31:05

Yeah, that's right. But, but yeah, usually if the daughter is from a very well off family and they don't have any like sons in the family, like they don't have any, any male babies, then what they do is sometimes they take in a male baby from another family that they think might be suitable for their daughter in the future. So ever since they were like six years old, they lived together and then they began married. Right.

Kristy Yee: 31:27

but they

Angie Yu: 31:28

were like, Oh yeah, like that, that was such a hard time for us. They were, they were being grateful about where they are now, you know, like, Oh, look at us, like sitting here having so much food. And like, we are all like living in a much better time and a better part of the world, but especially better time because this was like, What, like 50 years ago, not even at the time. but they're like, they basically joked my dad and his friend, they were joking about how his friend was so poor that his parents couldn't afford to raise a sister. So they had to suffocate her as soon as she was born. And that was like a very common practice because otherwise she'll grow up with a really hard life and. They didn't want to give her up. They didn't want her to go through any of that hardship. So as much as a pain them to do so they just had to suffocate her so that she doesn't become a person. And how fucking traumatizing is that to see. Like a sibling of yours to go that way. And obviously when they were talking about this again, like how we were kind of joking about like these props and being abused with them, which is, you know, not a laughing. If we tell our children in the future, they're going to be like, what the fuck mom? But me sitting at the dining table, listening to them, my eyes were like, and I looked over at their daughter. I was like, Did you understand that? And she's like, no, what did they say? I'm like,

Kristy Yee: 32:44

I don't

Angie Yu: 32:44

think I should tell you.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 32:46

I mean, you might want to know, but I'm not going to be the one to tell you.

Kristy Yee: 32:49

Yeah,

Angie Yu: 32:50

exactly. And I'm like, Holy fuck. And I'm just like sitting there. I'm like, I think I'm done eating, heard very similar stories from like people who have a similar background as me, whose parents went through. Like, remember really, really horrible, horrible time. and horrible era. Yeah. And when I think about stuff like that and how much trauma, like my parents have gone through my dad has gone through, then I kind of start to rationalize it a bit more. Like don't know, like you said, like they don't know how to raise me.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 33:22

They don't, they didn't know any different. They didn't have that role model.

Angie Yu: 33:25

Right. They were just trying to survive and they were just trying to make sure that I survive it. Everything else. I just have to figure it out for myself.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 33:33

Right. We just have to remember that, you know, they'd never do it out of malice. I mean, there are people out there that treat their children like shit for, you know, whatever.

Kristy Yee: 33:44

Yeah,

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 33:44

absolutely. But, you know, I know that, like, I think I'll just speak for my mom. It's like she wanted what was best and she's like, I'm going to discipline you. How I know how to make sure you become a decent human being, right? Yeah. So, yeah. But honestly, like I've heard stories about how, like, you know, you know, in China they prefer like boys over girls, but I did not know that they would like legit kill their own children. That's like, imagine like having to make that decision. To do that.

Kristy Yee: 34:18

And I think like in this, this particular example, it was like, They just can't afford to raise this child.

Angie Yu: 34:25

It was like a mercy kill.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 34:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 34:28

Assuming, because portion is not really a thing. So was none of the thing at the time.

Angie Yu: 34:32

They didn't want her to end up in an adoption center because there are a lot of times, like, they were like, why we don't want her to be like sold or anything like that, because that was before adoption. We're very legitimized. Right. So it's like, she might end up in a prostitution ring, right? Like, like she's have a good life and we can not provide that life for her. No, these, of course the sun, we can give him a way.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 34:53

Yeah.

Angie Yu: 34:54

It was just like, yeah, like mercy killing. Like it was that time, you know, this was the 50 sixties in China. This was like a really, really hard time. And that happens to be a time that a lot of our parents were growing up. Like they were at an early age in their life where they were learning about this stuff. And this is what they grew up with. And it's yeah, it's so heavy and I'm just like, mm. And sometimes I'm just like, man, like I had a really easy compared to them, you know?

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 35:23

I'm realizing now that I really kind of like alienated myself from my extended family because they were triggers for me. I grew up thinking like, with the physical abuse, for example Like they had to have known what was going on, but no one stepped in, no one was like, Hey, how are you? Are you okay? Do you know what I mean? I think, and I'm realizing that now that I was holding a grudge I was, I was, I, my whole family's like tall and slender and good looking. And I was like the chubby kid. You know, and the first person to tell me I was fat was a different auntie and I'm realizing now that that was kinda like the beginning of it, like being bullied and then like feeling less than, and not good enough. Right. And so I think that's why I was like comparing myself to the rest of my family. And like, instead of like being con being in their presence and constantly being reminded of how I'm not good enough, then let me just like, make. The conscious decision to not be a part of that. Yeah,

Kristy Yee: 36:26

because we were like, fuck this,

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 36:27

but I didn't, I didn't realize until recently. Right. Honestly, I didn't realize it until like listening to like these podcasts that I'm like, Oh, Hey, because in my head I'm like, fuck Asian people are so closed minded because that's all I knew with my family. So close minded, you know? And I'm like, I don't want to be a part of that, you know? And. And so I just distanced myself from that. And now I'm realizing like, Hey, like not everybody's like that, you know, like I'm more confident in who I am and you know, I'm not going to take things personally, like that's who they are, just because they say or do certain things that doesn't necessarily coincide with what my beliefs are. Doesn't mean we can't exist. You know, and that's where the compassion comes in and be like, Hey, you didn't know better, but I'm over that. Like, I forgive you. Like, I'm not mad about that anymore. You know? So like now let's move on. And like, you know, family is important, right?

Angie Yu: 37:25

I think you can be that change maker in your family too. Like, you can be the cool aunt now, like the auntie that you go to to talk to because you're, and your first cousins, they're going to have children and they might not be able to turn to these other family members because they're so religious or closed minded or just not naturally people. Right. But you can bring that compassion back into the family dynamics. Right. And I think that's where, especially since family is so important to you and you are a part of a family, so you can make a difference to the younger people.

Kristy Yee: 38:01

You mentioned like, you haven't experienced therapy before, but I feel like, because you're so open to having these conversations with your clients, with us, with, with your family, like you were just willing to go that extra level of deepness. Yeah. I feel like that is therapy.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 38:19

Absolutely. Every, I mean, you don't have to sit in a room or sit in front of a car. You talk to a psychologist like in front of you, right? Like everyone's idea of therapy is so different. And I was thinking about that this morning was like, you guys, we were talking about how, like, the people that need therapy are most likely the ones that can't afford it. I'm like, Oh, that totally makes sense. Because like, to find a good therapist you know, like you can't just go to a therapist and like expect to click right away. Right. So a lot of, I know a lot of people will like. they like one or two, like they didn't work. And so they kinda like give up. Like, Kristy I relate a lot to you. I feel really like the same, some like in certain things I'm like, do you mean Kristy? Or like the same person

Kristy Yee: 39:02

need to grab drinks and latest, you know,

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 39:04

like when am I going to I'm going to come to van. I haven't been there in a minute. my social circle is very small. I have like clients that I can talk to and stuff like that, but to get like deep and talk about, Oh shit like this, and then to find people that play like, Hey, we've been, or like you understand when I say like, or like the Asian upbringing of you know, abuse and stuff like that. And if you talk to other people, they're just like, okay, that's kind of fucked up. But like, you're like, okay, Talking to you guys, you're like, yes, we know that it's fucked up, but like, this is like how we can like talk it out and, had that sense of community and feel like you're not so alone. And that's why it's so important to share your story. Because a lot of people like sit in it and they're like, Oh, it's just me. Like, I'm so alone. No one understands what I'm going through and blah, blah, blah. Right. But. once you're vulnerable enough to open up, you realize like, Hey, there's something to this, like talking about it. Episode nine was like, yeah. I'm like, I bookmark that shit.

Angie Yu: 40:02

Oh, it's funny. It's because Christie and I were like, not that keen on episode nine. Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 40:07

We were at like, I don't know about you, Angie, but I was kind of nervous about episode nine because it was like not a typical episode and it was dark and. Grimy and moist. Yeah. That's exactly.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 40:22

Yeah. I was running stairs when I was listening to that part of the episode. I like almost tripped down the stairs. Cause you guys kept saying moist and moist. And I was like, Oh my God, that's so funny. but I'll tell you what I really enjoyed about episode nine was you're both in a depression at the time. And the fact that you guys just like, you were just open about what you were feeling, how you're feeling. And it's really refreshing in the sense that like, Hey, there are these two people doing a podcast, they're in, this deep dark place, but they're still willing to talk about it and like be real and be present for your audience and be like, Hey man, this is shitty. This is life, you know, like a mock and I'll like, paint it. Like it's all rainbows and butterflies. Like that genuine and that authenticity you, you can't make that shit up. So I there's a lot of takeaways from that episode. And kudos to you guys for being so brave and vulnerable and posting it.

Kristy Yee: 41:18

Thank you. Thank you.

Angie Yu: 41:53

And we live in a time right now where there's so much toxic positivity. And that's something that I've really had to unlearn this past year is

Kristy Yee: 42:00

toxic.

Angie Yu: 42:01

Positive. Yeah.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 42:03

I heard you mentioned that term before, but explain to me again what it means.

Angie Yu: 42:08

It's like, if someone's like, Oh, I'm not feeling really, I'm not feeling so good recently. Like I'm feeling a little bit down and someone will just respond. Like you'll get through it. You'll be fine. It's not that big a deal. Like someone else's like, there are people who are way worse off,

Kristy Yee: 42:24

or even things like something really simple is. Positive vibes only like that. So trending fucking hashtag, right? Like positive only, you know? Yeah,

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 42:36

no, I get that. I

Kristy Yee: 42:38

see where they're coming from. Like I see the good tension in that and I get it right.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 42:43

But there's

Kristy Yee: 42:44

going to be negative vibes in life. Like that's part of life, you know, and what you're just going to ignore it or you just not going to recognize it. That's right. So the idea of toxic

Angie Yu: 42:53

positivity is mostly the idea that People who genuinely believe that they have to be positive all the time. So people don't give themselves the space,

Kristy Yee: 43:02

do great,

Angie Yu: 43:04

or to feel like shit. I think in our culture, like in our, just like, Societal social media culture, like how people don't share anything, negative, their highlight reels, et cetera, the toxic positive activity, because it makes people feel more lonely. So if someone's like, Oh, I feel like I haven't caught up to my peers. And then they feel really shitty about that. But then, but then they don't let themselves think about it. And the primary victim of toxic positivity is yourself. And I say this because this was me like a year ago, like toxic positivity was something that was really affecting myself. And I was a primary victim because I was not doing well. Like I was like barely keeping my head above water, but I'm like, everything's fine.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 43:49

I'm fine.

Angie Yu: 43:50

Great. And it was more like me pushing hole, pitching holding pigeonholing, just all the way. I it's, that's a really hard word to say, but I was like boxing myself into that image that I wanted for myself. I'm like, I'm totally fine. But really I was keeping myself from a proper like healing process and that's where the, yeah. The term is like, it's, it's mostly, it's like, like masculinity, like masculinity is not a bad thing. Positivity is not a bad thing. It's the balance of it just like positive and negative. And, and we, we think that everything has to be positive or negative, but it's really like, Everything's a spectrum.

Kristy Yee: 44:30

Everything boils down to how you view the situation, how you view your own thoughts, right. And toxic positivity, right? I mentioned, you know, hashtag positive vibes, only that's coming from external, but what really matters is what's happening internally, the external can affect what you're thinking about internally and think like, everything is fine. It's all good. Right. And then kind of blind you from what really needs to get done. But from what Lisa is saying is like, okay, We need positivity, but you, it has to come from you. Like you need,

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 45:09

it's not external validation. That's going to make you feel better about yourself.

Kristy Yee: 45:12

Exactly. It's not like it's, Oh, I need my, like my friends that they just tell me everything's going to be okay. Then everything's going to be okay. Well, it's not right. I didn't have time to process. You have to come to that conclusion yourself. If somebody else starts saying that shit, then it's like, okay, well you're not validating the fact that I feel really shitty. Right. And it also doesn't help because I didn't come to that conclusion

Angie Yu: 45:34

That's right.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 45:34

Yeah.

Angie Yu: 45:35

You nailed it.

Kristy Yee: 45:52

I want to know more about your sexual abuse experience. Like what was that like and how like, where are you at now with it?

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 46:01

So, when I was like younger, like, you know, I mean, I yeah, I was, I was looking, I was looking for, you know attention and. I didn't know any different, so I was taking it however I could get it. For me, I'm like, I was promiscuous when I was younger and that's how I thought, this is how I'm going to find someone that loves me. Like, if I put out then like, that person will care for me and give me attention. That's all I knew. I got attention from men and that's how I got it. So as I got older and that's how. I saw it. I was just like, if I put myself out there, then like, eventually somebody will love me back, you know? And just like looking for love in all the wrong places. I started sleeping with men for attention and then realized very quickly that, okay, Hey attracting the same kind of men that were just in it for the sex, because that's what you had to offer. I remember I went out with. A friend and her friend and I was bitching about guys and she said I don't want to seem rude or anything, but have you ever stopped to consider that maybe you're the common denominator? And then I was like, Oh shit. maybe I'm finding all the wrong men because there's something it's like, I'm, I'm the reason that. I'm attracted to like certain type of men. Right. So I made the conscious decision to be like, Oh, okay. You know what? I'm going to stop revolving my life around men. Cause that's all I knew. Like, I didn't have that male role model growing up. And so I got it. Like whichever way I could get it, you know? Every time I meet somebody, I'm like, Oh, maybe this is my next boyfriend. And it got to the point where I'm like, I'm not going to date, like no more of this, no more fucking, plenty of fish, you know, no more of this. I actually saw one of my abusers, like this is years ago and I was really surprised I was expecting to get triggered, but I didn't. And I was like, no, I'm not gonna let you have that hold on me anymore.

Kristy Yee: 48:05

Has any of that experience changed? You changed the way you think about sex?

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 48:10

I was, yeah, I was a very. Very sexual person, but now sex is not as important I'd much rather have like, like a deep conversation with my husband because I use my sexuality to get. What I was lacking, but I'm no longer lacking that. And so, okay. So one thing I was really thinking about this this morning is I was exposed to like sexual things at an early age. I remember like, Finding dirty magazines and stuff. Right. And I'm just like, Oh, and I think like the men that abused me were exposed to it at a young age as well, but they, they didn't really, they're kind of like, as like, I guess, I mean the shitty way to say it, but like they saw me as an opportunity to experiment and. Play out what they've saw in magazines, you know? So one thing I have thought about was how detrimental it can be for someone to be exposed to anything sexual at such a young age and not having open conversation about it. You know, there are. Certain parts of the world where they're very open about sexuality, it's not taboo. And I think that's so important because when you're like, you know, you're hiding a dirty magazine in your closet and then you're like flipping through it and you're like, you know, you have all these ideas on what sex is supposed to be. Because it's in a magazine, but you don't really know. I mean, obviously there are like female abusers too, but like let's just use men as an example. I remember when I was young, like we used to hang out at this. It was brother and sister. We used to hang out at their house. You don't like neighborhood kids go hang out. Right. And I remember him asking me, he was probably like, I don't know, like three or four or five years older than me. And I remember him asking me, he's like, Hey, do you want to go hang out in the woods? Like down the street? And I'm like, no, you know, and subconsciously, like I knew, what. That meant and like for someone to be his age, like he probably had access to pornography and he's like curious now he's like, I want to experiment. And you know, and I think that's where pornography can be very detrimental to someone at such a young age, because they don't no what sex in a loving relationship is like, they just know like porn. There's so much more than being physically intimate, if that makes sense.

Angie Yu: 50:45

I personally, and I'm paraphrasing here from a book that I read. I personally think that we need to redefine the meaning of sex because one, a lot of people think sex is just P&V and for a lot of couples, they can have sex without P&V because. That might one of that might not exist in the

Kristy Yee: 51:03

relationship with penis and vagina,

Angie Yu: 51:04

right? Like for a gay couple were, unless he lesbian couple were for other couples who just don't find like PNV, penis and vagina penetration, like a, a thing that they enjoy, like, it would be very rude of us hetero people, heteronormative people to be like, Oh, sex with penis and vagina, because you're disrespecting a whole array of people who have different types of enjoyment out of sex. And I think as people like we need to redefine sex to me, sex is just like a type of intimacy that you have with someone and it's just finding someone who has it compatible kind of intimacy. level, and that's how I feel like sex is like, for some people it might be like having a certain type of mental and emotional connection. Then it'll lead you to be able to have that physical connection. like I've had one, I stand and I've had sex with people I'm not attracted to emotionally and I've never enjoyed it, never. but in my relationships I've always had the mental, emotional, and physical connection. And to me, those were like the loving relationship kind of, and to me, those one night stands doesn't even feel like. Sex. They don't want to

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 52:13

feel like you think it's going to fill a void, but

Angie Yu: 52:16

it doesn't. Interesting.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 52:18

How we jumped from trauma to sex I thought that was a really good question. You know, like having experiences. Child sexual abuse, like what is my perspective on sex now? Like that isn't something I ever thought about or crossed my mind. And it kind of makes sense because. Yeah. I mean, sex was such a huge part of my life before, but it really isn't now, even though I'm in a loving relationship, it's just, there's no emphasis on like having to like put out, you know what I mean? And so I'm really glad you asked that question and then it opened conversation for everybody else. Which one of you had to teach your mom? Put a condom on a banana. Yeah. That made me laugh so hard. That's so awesome. That's so funny.

Kristy Yee: 53:03

No, there was no banana. We didn't have

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 53:07

water. That's right. That's

Angie Yu: 53:08

what it was your arm.

Kristy Yee: 53:11

Thank you for joining us today.

Lisa Sam-Townsend: 53:13

Thank you so much. It's it was really. Awesome. And also weird to be like sitting here and like, see you guys, because I just hear you guys on the speaker and I'm just like, this is weird. And to be a part of it is very cool too.

Angie Yu: 53:32

Okay. Feel good feedback. one should we read?

Kristy Yee: 53:35

Are you picking one?

Angie Yu: 53:36

Sure. I'll pick one.

Kristy Yee: 53:37

Okay.

Angie Yu: 53:37

our account received today. Actually, I just

Kristy Yee: 53:40

Ooo

Angie Yu: 53:40

and this is from someone on Instagram. his name is Ian, so Ian says. Thanks for episode 20. What makes me bipolar? Sounds like I'm atypical. And my physician has requested a referral to psychiatrist. Your podcast made my day. I'm originally from Vancouver and now live in Montreal.

Kristy Yee: 53:58

Wow. That's amazing. I think what really speaks to me about that one is we're not, we can't diagnose people. Okay. But it makes you advocate for yourself and your own health to healthcare providers. My reservation is I don't want people to start self-diagnosing, but this is not the case. It's like, Oh, I see some, some characteristics. Let me go seek some additional support and see like, where can this take me?

Angie Yu: 54:25

exactly. And that was my response to him as well. I said awesome to hear that, Ian, I'm glad you are getting expert advice and help. It's a very brave thing to do again. I have to throw the word expert in there because like you said, we're not the experts we're showing that this is what we can do and one thing is that we are trying to normalize, seeking help.

Kristy Yee: 54:42

Thank you so much, Ian, and all the power to you. Thanks for sending that in. If any poop troops up there want to send us any comments, DMS, voice messages, all the link is in the description. Wow. That sounds like a YouTube video. Please hit the bell for your notifications. All the links are in the show notes below.