39. Using Witchcraft to Connect with Our Chinese Ancestry ft. Mimi Young

Mimi Young is a spirit communicator. She left the corporate 9-5 world to invest in a relationship with the unseen. In this episode, we explore how Shamanism is a way to honor our ancestry, what is dream hygiene and how you can benefit, and how to get back in touch with your cultural roots that have been lost through migration and cultural revolutions. 

“When we can return to our roots, practices and customs, in the context of magic and spirituality, it is an act of decolonizing because then you are saying - I am Chinese, and this is what we do” - Mimi Young

Takeaways:

• Listen to your surroundings and traditional folklore stories
• Reconnecting with your spirituality IS claiming your culture and identity. It is part of decolonization.
• Traditional Chinese Medicine is an art & science with connections to mediumship 
• Treat going to sleep like going out with friends; spend time to get ready for it 
• Politics IS informed by spirituality 
• The concept of permission is rooted in enslavement
• Learn to build systems that cultivate more serotonin rather than dopamine

Mentions & Resources:

• Shop Ceremonie by Mimi Yong (website)
• The Woowoo by Lindsay Wong (book)
• A Practice—and a Spell—to Find Meaning in Your Dreams (article)
• Listen to more Mimi Young (podcasts)
• Astral dream mist 

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Transcript

Angie Yu: 0:00

This is so funny. Like we were expecting to learn all this stuff about spirituality and someone is, now we're talking about,

Mimi Young: 0:08

About politics. you know, why? Because spirituality is. And because politics is informed by spirituality, people who start wars, they usually blame it. Well, they don't blame it. They justify it because God said so.

Angie Yu: 0:22

right.

Mimi Young: 0:23

Right. So, So, that's why we keep on go or we, I do it too. I find everything goes back to politics because spirituality and politics are fairly interchangeable.

Kristy Yee: 1:00

Welcome back to another episode of shit we don't tell mom where we get comfortable with the uncomfortable today. We have Mimi young joining us from all the way from Vancouver Mimi is a Han Taiwanese Canadian. She is a mama of two, a tea lover. She's a bibliophile. She is a lucid dreamer, which is something that I would love to learn to be better at. Maybe you have some tips for me. she also loves house and techno and what's super cool is she's also a spirit communicator and a shamanistic, occultist. I think that's how you say it. occultist. Thank you for nodding. She's also the founder of ceremony and esoteric brand focusing on imparting ancient and practical wisdom so that her clients can break out of negative patterns from spirits and healing energies. Mimi works with core shamanism and ancestral wisdom, dream work, chaos magik with a K at the end and other Chinese mystic practices. And to communicate with the unseen offering education, mentorship, private readings, and skin and aura care. Welcome Mimi to the show.

Mimi Young: 2:08

Thank you so much for having me.

Kristy Yee: 2:11

All these things that we were just talking about, all of the spiritual listic things that you are working on, that you are involved in. I've always been very curious about the unseen world. But yet I am, it makes me uncomfortable and makes me a little bit scared. You know, it's, it's like looking into a hole that without knowing what's on the other end of it, but you're curious. So those are, those are how I feel about like the unseen world and spiritual ism. First of all, how did you get into this?

Mimi Young: 2:43

I would say that I started a lot feeling the way you did or you still do. and yeah, I jumped in the hole

Angie Yu: 2:51

you saw the uncertainty and you're like, hello, you didn't dip your toes in. You just dive bread. You just dove. Right.

Mimi Young: 3:00

I mean, when I was very, very young, I was very connected and aware that, spirits were around me. yeah, I could hear plants for instance. They're definitely my earliest, you know, form of friendships. and, and yeah, like it's just, you know, as one grows up in the kind of world that we live in, perhaps some of it, you know, culture and religion play a bit of a role. but just the greater society. It's, it's not something that is talked about is not something that is encouraged. Unless there's that additional typecast, right? Like that, oh, that that's, that's weird or all these additional stereotypes that's associated with mediumship or spirit communication or magic and, you know, shamonic work. so yeah, it, it did go go dormant for a really long time. it would sort of rear its head over. So often it did a bit when I was a teenager and I would start psychic smelling things. So smell things that were not there, but it meant like the smells or the sense carried messages. But yeah, ultimately how I got into this was because I decided to, you know, go head first into the hole. and really it was because I ran out of options. I, you know, I tried everything else and nothing else was working. So I thought, well, I've already lost all of it. So, you know, it's not going, I'm not going to lose anything else. so I jumped.

Kristy Yee: 4:22

what do you mean by you've already lost all of it.

Mimi Young: 4:26

Yeah, So I lost my sense of safety. I lost my identity. I lost my idea of what love meant I lost, you know, like success on a, like on paper, everything I had it all, but none of it meant a thing ultimately. And, every rule that I followed that carried the promise that I would live like a happy, fulfilling wondrous life was I like, none of it was true. and I think the best way to explain it was I was living a life of very staple boredom. but it's like the kind of boredom. Actually deeply painful. Like it's like a, it, you know, it really aroused those extra existential questions of like, why am I even here? What's the point of even being alive? do I really have to do this until I'm 90? Like, you know, and it could have been any day. It could have been any month, but I already knew what was planned. I already knew what I had to do for work. I already knew, you know, when my paycheck would come in, which was a very handsome one, I already knew how I was going to spend it in terms of vacations and coffees and clothes and all these things. And I was just really not interested in any of it anymore. I felt like I was a ghost essentially. Like I was this, this shell of a person on the outside that maybe, had it all so to speak. And yet I didn't have that.

Kristy Yee: 5:52

It was like, you had it all from what others tell you that you should have, but on the inside you were just empty because it wasn't what you wanted.

Angie Yu: 6:02

Yeah, it was on someone else's terms, which is not what you'd want. Right.

Mimi Young: 6:05

Totally. And I mean, I w I was the cliched good Chinese daughter. Like, it's so funny that like, you know the name of your podcast. It's like, oh yeah, look, there's a lot of shit to tell you for sure.

Kristy Yee: 6:24

Let's go into that. What was mom's reaction when you made this switch?

Mimi Young: 6:31

Oh, well of course he didn't like it. I mean, So I I'm, I'm I mean I'm the first born, and with it, there's all sorts of expectations around being, you know, the first born Chinese daughter, from, you know, the relationship with siblings and the obligations that one has to take with siblings, to caring for the family, you know, parents, elders, and so forth, being constantly available, doing it with a smile on your face. and yeah, my mom's an evangelical Christian. So, you know, in addition to the culture that, I, I live in there's this additional layer of religion, and particularly one that is rooted in obedience and not questioning and following the rules because the rules are meant to protect you or lead you to this life of reward. And in the case of, the, the sort of churches that I attended the reward was was, you know, it's in heaven, which means that you're not really gonna see the reward until you're dead, which, you know, takes an immense amount of patience and faith. and, and yeah, so, so there's all that layered into it.

Kristy Yee: 7:42

did she knew that you were, I don't even know if these are the right terms, so please correct me like spiritually gifted since you were a child. Cause you mentioned like you've, you've always had.

Mimi Young: 7:52

Yeah, she would, especially like when she stepped into like, so she stepped into the church when I was in, you know yeah. Like junior high liquid or middle school in per for listeners who may not be familiar with what junior high means. so like around like grade grade, seven grade eight ish. and you know, from that point on, she would say things like, oh, it was like God's way or like the holy Spirit's way to talk to me. Yet. So many of my quote unquote giftings was not what was discussed in the Bible or discussed on the pulpit. So it was always like encouraging me to find other ways to speak to the Lord, that were more acceptable. Like maybe through prayer or maybe through, through. Other mediums that wasn't necessarily through, let's say psychic scent or, or, or so forth. it was always sort of seen through that filter. and then when I said, no, mom, I'm not even communicating with Jesus. Like, I'm definitely not communicating with Jesus. I'm communicating with dead people. I'm communication with plants, I'm communicating with animals. that, that was really upsetting. I think it was upsetting for her because she, by then genuinely believed that what I was doing was evil, even though ancestrally it's what, you know, our culture, we've always done that. Like, I mean, when you think about, let's say, the lunar new year, it's always about ancestral reverence. So it was always about this continuity of cycles. people that came before us and the people who came before them and so forth, and always goes back to the land. Like what I was believing, I was really by technical definition, I was just being, and living my culture.

Angie Yu: 9:27

Yeah. Well, I'm listening to you. I feel this sort of you're stirring up the ancestral connection that I feel like when you're talking about this, all I can think about is like the things that I used to see my grandmother do, you know, putting out food for those who are not there. And even back then, my uncle was the first to. Immigrate out of our Homeland, our ancestral land. And she will use to put out a pair of chopsticks and a bowl of rice for him during every single big occasion. And to me that I haven't thought about that for a really long time, until what you just said. Now, I feel this immediately by hearing what you talk about and about how like, Hey, this has been a part of our culture for so long. Like immediately I made that connection and that that's an incredible feeling.

Mimi Young: 10:18

I mean, it's, it's so funny when people think like, you know, when you are a witch, so to speak that you have to go to this far away place and be ordained and have this huge epiphany. for me, yes. In some ways I did have an epiphany, it was like really profound. but it was also a series of small things that, yeah, like you, like, I did the same. I, I looked to what my mum did before she entered the church. I looked, I looked at what my grandpa. Did and still do. I looked at, you know, I I've listened to the stories of what they told me, what they did as children and so forth. and yeah, it's always been around offerings. It's always been around certain lunar holidays or cycles, and it's always been about food or some type of other land-based offering. So maybe like in our case equity, we also gave, you know, flowers and such as offerings, even if they weren't meant to be consuming them. And then also, yeah, we can kind of weave a bit further dreams, lots of dreams. you know, I, I recall when I was a child, my uncle was saying that, when he was in Taiwan, because he, he, he sort of spent half this time living there and half his time living here, in Vancouver. And so he would have these dreams, and. One one day he had this really profound rim where, my great-grandmother, so this would be his grandmother, saying that it was cold and damp where she was. And so when he woke up, he immediately went to her grave site and lo and behold it had flooded there. and yeah, so, I mean, how can you not say that stuff's real, like that stuff is real. and yet, with more of that quote unquote modern westernized lens that my mother took on, she said that that was the devil communicating.

Angie Yu: 12:02

Wow.

Kristy Yee: 12:03

I feel really disheartened to hear that, that your mom made that comment basically. and, okay, so this is what this is. What's going through my mind right now. I burn incense. I burn joss paper. I do offerings to my ancestors, to my dad who has passed away. you know, and I, I believe that there are spirits. I do, I can't, I can't express how I believe it, but I believe that they exist and there's like other beings around us and not just what we know. And to me, You know, going to the cemetery, making my offerings, like, communicating with my dad through prayers or whatever it is. That to me is just me hanging out with my dad. Like, I don't even think of it as I'm going to use air quotes, witchcraft, or, you know, devil stuff. It's just part of my culture. It's part of what we do. But then if I think about it from a Western lens and I, and I'm trying not to like make this an east versus west thing, but when I never thought of it as witchcraft until Mimi, you just use the word, which I'm like, oh right. There's, there's that other definition as well. And it's so painted with a different colored brush, you know, it feels so much more foreign when you think about it that way. And it feels so much more. Taboo when you think of it that way, like, oh my goodness, this is, this is the devil talking or you're practicing witchcraft versus I'm doing a cultural thing that is important to me. And I'm just communicating with my dad.

Mimi Young: 13:35

So, okay, so I'm going to tie this together. talked about you're, you're scared of that hole.

Kristy Yee: 13:40

Yeah.

Mimi Young: 13:40

So what about. If jumping into that hole is just about returning to what you've always known.

Angie Yu: 13:47

uh, no wonder you've done 37 podcasts.

Mimi Young: 13:55

And I should say, words can be really cheap. Right. You know, like I I've, I'm sure you've heard those expressions. Like everybody's an artists like, no, fuck man. Nope. Not everybody is an artist. Some people are really skilled and have practiced and put in the hours and some people just are not right. Like they're not artistic in that sense. So, no, I don't believe everyone's an artist. I don't believe everyone's a healer and all these cliche things where all the words become meaningless because they're, it's all overused. Like if I'm going to start waving, you know, like my finger and saying everyone's a healer, everyone can perform surgery. Like obviously not right yet, yet, yet I do believe that this idea of returning back to that hole is everyone's right. And I do believe that is how we access our magic. And it is a way that is deeply honoring of our ancestry and honoring the ancient ways, you know, before, I don't know, before modern humans fucked it all up.

Angie Yu: 14:58

Yeah. I mean, I guess it was around for thousands of years before the, before the colonizers were like, you know what? We don't like what you're doing.

Mimi Young: 15:06

I mean, I, I feel, that's why we're here. If the ancient ways weren't around and if it didn't work, like how on earth did humans last, as long as we have. And all these quote unquote new methods, I'm not quite sure if they're all that great.

Angie Yu: 15:20

I say that like people who are like, oh, but the science is a science and I'm like, no, science is science. It's not science is science and other things. Aren't sciences, like the whole idea of us identifying science as the science, Hey, that's another human. Conject like, that's another thing that we made up. Like, so who's to say science is all science. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's so whenever, so for me, like, I feel pretty disconnected from all that traditional, like ancestral, rituals and, you know, sweeping the grave and such. And I think that's because my background is from mainland China and my parents grew up, were born into the cultural revolution.

Mimi Young: 16:01

Where so much of it was eradicated.

Angie Yu: 16:02

That's right. It was eradicated, you know, whereas Mimi you're from Taiwan, your ancestors were able to retain a lot of that because they didn't go through that. And then Kristy, your ancestors were, you know, far away from Beijing

Kristy Yee: 16:15

yeah. When communism started coming in there, like.

Angie Yu: 16:19

Exactly.

Mimi Young: 16:20

Well, that's what my grandfather did. And you know, those who remain, who are still alive or who we have in contact with are the ones that actually, um, yeah. Who, who, who left communism

Angie Yu: 16:31

So it has a huge impact because for me, like that is something that is a little bit harder for me to relate to with you guys, because it's just so foreign to me. Like I know my grandmother does a lot of that still. but I know I didn't grow up with her. And my parents, you know, they went to university, they were really doctrine, indoctrinated indoctrinated, with all the, you know, Western medicine, the Western methods, because they were pushed into university to, Hey, study science study technology. That is the way of the future and they became, what I would say is agnostic and that kinda. Filtered down to myself as well, because when you don't grow up with that, it's like what you said, you kind of become further, further from that hole. And I'm not saying that I absolutely do not believe in spirits. And I'm not saying that I do believe in spirits, I'm kind of in this like open space of not really knowing where to go, kind of like in, in, in limbo of sort of, but also like, it's kind of comfortable here for me because this is what I know, you know? So for someone who's who, for a typical person, who's like a skeptic about all this stuff, Mimi, like what would your advice be?

Mimi Young: 17:39

I am not in the business of convincing people.

Angie Yu: 17:42

I like that.

Mimi Young: 17:43

I am. I, what I, what I'm here to do is when the person is ready or even just willing to have conversations then I'm here. And I would say this all relates. It might seem like I'm jumping around. Um, so Angie, you had said how, you know, insert, blah, blah, blah, is a science, like, you know, blank is a science and how in the west, there is such a need to label things. Um, or to draw these lines to say, this is where this begins. This is where that begins. if we look to our, like the three of like our and the, the medicine from our end ancestry, which is TCM, um, TCM is, is all those things, right? It is an art, it is a science, um, when one studies TCM, not necessarily here in the west, but let's say in, in, in Taiwan, in China, they actually have to have an understanding of chinese esoteric practices. They need to know, let's say what the wu xing are. They need to know to a certain degree, some baseline, a foundation of, of the ee jing they need to understand Chinese astrology. They need to understand lunar medicine, because all that actually informs an understanding of Herb's and understanding of the human body, because everything has always been seen through this lens of art and science integrated. So even though we call it medicine and it is medicine here in the west, we are frantically in need of validating it through the lens of science, hard science, so to speak. It's a slower way. And of course, hard science is validating that acupuncture is effective, that herbalism is effective and all these things actually exist. Whereas the folks that have been practicing this medicine, folk medicine, shamonic medicine, that's really what it is.They heard it, they heard it from the spirits. They heard it from whether it's the spirits of the land or spirits of the ancestors. Um, they understood it by being aware and being in communication. so I would say if you're curious, or if you're open just start listening to start listening to the old stories, even if they are maybe just by definition, folk tales or myths. Um, there's a lot of truth in these. And I would say if this is a complicated conversation, right? Because it's like, so those of Han lineage, right? Like Han Chinese lineage. There is a very messy story, especially in the past hundred or so years. Right. Um, that has affected the three of us. It's affected our parents and also affected our grandparents. And of course, you know, the younger generations as well, where we're really seeing the influence of the west in our Homeland and to the point where the Homeland has denied its roots. Right. And, and this is messy because it's just like, okay, so where do you, how do you how do you embody, how do you get rooted in to your truth? And because so much of it it hasn't been preserved. Then, then where do you start again? and I would say it's, by setting out those chopsticks. And I talk about this and I mentorship where it's like, yeah, you, you have to invite the dead back to your table. I would say that this is for all cultures, like, because all cultures did historically do this, maybe not with chopsticks, but certainly with food. And yeah, you invite them back to your table and you invite them back into your dreams. Because you're cooking anyway. So you're eating anyway. So it's not like it's extra work and you're, you're, you're going to bed anyway. So you're probably going to dream anyway. So that's not extra work. The answer is not through buying taro cards or, like, you know, doing like a 12 step program in like, you know, spiritual coaching it's by going back to the simple things and then starting to listen.

Kristy Yee: 21:39

Like giving ourselves permission to explore that and be in touch with that, with that cultural side of things again, you know, and I think it's incredibly sad to think that, in our homelands, the whiteness is upon them, you know, and, and, and

Mimi Young: 21:58

Yeah,

Kristy Yee: 21:59

how I'm envisioning is as generation goes on, if we don't do something about it now, right. Then we as a collective become more and more disconnected from where we come from from our roots. And that disconnect, I think, is going to lead to a lot of mental health issues cause you're not in alignment.

Mimi Young: 22:20

You will, or you'll wind up like me, you know, jumping into the whole head first because you're just like, nothing else is worth it. Like, well, like I said, I ran out of options you know, nothing else was working. And I think for me it was like this reaction, like I, you know, like I had this longing, I had this longing to be home, but I didn't even know what home meant and realized that it's not really a physical home at all. And I think that's the other piece it's it's... for folks like us, because we're actually not living on the land that our ancestors lived on, there is a physical disconnection, there's a cellular physical disconnection. And so we're always going to be looking for it through the cells. We're going to be looking for it by choosing terroir that is supportive of that initial experience. So I think for me, because I was born in Taiwan, I'm always going to be an island girl. And I love being by mountains, trees and ocean, and like, no, like, no wonder why I love being here in Vancouver too, because it's mountain trees and ocean. I couldn't not live in the Prairies. So there's just like no way, because from a vibrational perspective, it is not it's not compatible with, with, with where I was born. And then, you know, when you start looking at it from that perspective, you start looking at everything else too.

Kristy Yee: 23:43

And I think just even like what you said there, noticing where you connect to. Like, I have an affinity for the ocean as well, and I never thought of it as oh, it's because my family is from Guangzhou and you know, that province is next to that fucking ocean! It's a port province!

Angie Yu: 24:05

Oh my oh goodness.

Kristy Yee: 24:08

I need to be around water. I love swimming. For example, I need to be near the ocean, even when I'm traveling. And I go into inland for too long, I feel uncomfortable. Like not as a physical sickness, but just like heart. I feel something. It's subtle, yeah it's subtle but it's there. Yeah.

Angie Yu: 24:29

I don't know if you guys have been to, um, the Chinese garden in Chinatown, the Sun Yat Sen and garden. So I never went there until I was in university. And this was like part of my Asian studies class. We went there on a field trip and I was like 20, and this is great. I took it as a GPA booster, did not boost my GPA it's one of the hardest classes ever trying to reconnect with my roots. But I, I, the first thing I felt when I walked into that garden, I just like stopped. I couldn't walk. I was just like hit with this energy because the garden is based on the gardens of Su Zhou and my ancestors are from Su Zhou. So every time I feel like I am not myself, I go to the garden and it's where I feel most at home. And I never thought about it that way. As in like, you're surrounded by these elements that is deep. Yeah. It's like deeply in rooted. And now that you say that I'm like, whoa, like, that's why I feel so connected. It's not just because it's nice and pretty, but it's actually because it's... I feel so at home there that it makes me feel like, you know, that it's my home within this home. And it's a garden that I often describe as like east within the west. Right. Because it's surrounded by like Vancouver, downtown condos.

Kristy Yee: 25:46

It's literally like downtown.

Mimi Young: 25:48

Yeah. And like cheesy hipster bakeries. Yeah. Yeah.

Angie Yu: 25:53

Yeah. And, and I feel like That's not us. Yeah. That's like us, right? like within our bodies, there's this like garden that we nurture. And if you don't nurture that garden with all these, these, things that we've talked about, then the garden will just die and

Mimi Young: 26:10

Totally. And because it's, it was modeled after an ancient way of gardening and working with plants. That means it carries the wisdom of the dead. Right. And so it carries the wisdom of perhaps folks that your ancestors hung out with.

Angie Yu: 26:29

Right.

Mimi Young: 26:29

Like it is highly possible. And that's what I mean, by that spirit communication.

Angie Yu: 26:35

Oh I love that. I love that. That's spirit communication. You know, like before today's recording, I was going to be like, I really want to ask her how she talks to spirits.

Mimi Young: 26:44

Yeah. Yeah. I don't use a crystal ball. It that's for sure.

Angie Yu: 26:46

But after speaking to you, I understand it's not about talking to the dead. It's about listening to the dead and I think that's very powerful.

Mimi Young: 26:54

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can start talking to them once you can hear their voices. Um, but yeah,

Angie Yu: 27:01

For the average, for the average lay person, we can just listen, right? Yeah.

Mimi Young: 27:06

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And I mean, everybody has to listen. There's no talking or there's not listening.

Kristy Yee: 28:12

What I feel right now is I'm... I don't know what this is right now, but I'm feeling incredibly uplifted because I feel like I'm allowed to stop and listen and allow to reconnect with my spirituality and my culture, and it's okay to do that because I feel, I feel like a lot of times, you know, because we grew up in the west and a lot of white supremacy influences that either just lose our practice and lose our abilities to connect because we're just not doing it. And then also, because it's kind of shamed upon, like people think it's weird, you know, even if it's a Chinese cultural thing. Growing up, it was already weird to bring dumplings to school, let alone Like you know what I mean? Like I would never talk to my friends about doing that stuff.

Mimi Young: 29:02

Oh, my God.

Angie Yu: 29:03

That's true. Kristy you have, in the past episodes as well, hesitated to talk about, you know, burning the papers and the Joss joss? Papers. I could really see that hesitation because like you said, it's about not giving yourself permission, which is why, it's so good to talk about it. Which is why what Mimi is doing is so important. And like, you know, Mimi has this great, um, she's an entrepreneur as well. So ceremonie which is spelled with an I E you know, she offers these services, but she's not going to talk about them on the podcast. She's going to talk about how much she cares about this whole practice and, you know, because it's more than about, you know, what I'm trying to say.

Kristy Yee: 29:41

It's sharing that wisdom. It's showing that enthusiasm. It's, it's telling us that, Hey, it's okay to be connected to the water, to the plants. It's okay to allow yourself to dream about your ancestors and maybe eventually have a conversation with them. Like that's not a weird thing. Like embrace it. It was always been part of our culture, regardless if it's Chinese or not, like we're speaking from a Chinese lens because we're Chinese right? But like Mimi said, this has been practiced throughout many, many, many, many, many other types of cultures around the world, just in different formats. But the core of it is respecting the dead paying, paying tribute to the dead, to your ancestors, being in touch with the earth, with the, with the elements around you and allowing yourself to feel that affinity and then allowing yourself to be connected to that. Whereas in the west, it's Like oh, that's kind of woo. Like what's up with that. That's not scientific, blah, blah, blah. Like it's, it's very hard lines. You know what I mean?

Angie Yu: 30:43

Have you guys heard of the book called the woo

Kristy Yee: 30:45

woo? No

Angie Yu: 30:46

it's, written by a Chinese Canadian. I think she might be Chinese Canadian. It says the Woo Woo: How I survive ice hockey, drug raids demons and my crazy Chinese family by Lindsay Wong. And I wanted to read it. I really did, but the title kind of threw me off. And I guess, I didn't know why the title threw me off until really until our conversation today. I think because it comes from such a Western lens, like, Hey, check out this Chinese concept of the woo woo and she talks about it as a, like you said, the devil, like how I survived it, how I survived demons and my crazy Chinese family. And you know, of course I'm judging the book by its cover. I don't actually know how, whether her stance is on being pro or anti woo-hoo. So, um, you know, for those who have read the book, feel free to let us know.

Kristy Yee: 31:43

But there's like negative connotations, just, just based off of the title from what it sounds like. And then you you had, you didn't you didn't vibe with that kind of energy that like negativity.

Angie Yu: 31:56

Yeah. Like I definitely didn't want to just criticize. Like we already don't have that many books written by women of color and women of Chinese descent and with that like, you know, that sounds like people we know. Right. So I was like, oh, but the title just kept throwing me off. Like I've already bought the book. I just cannot open it because I'm scared about what it's going to say. I'm scared that it's going to be very anti Chinese.

Mimi Young: 32:23

I would say, give it a chance and see what happens. I will say the word"woo woo", I don't know how it surface in the west as an English word, but it's, it's an ancient word in Chinese. Like if you think about like woo por like, woo is... it is discussing that intersection of shamanism, witchcraft, sorcery, occultic practice. Like that, that word"woo" is magic. So I don't know if it relates to the word Woo Woo in English, but, but woo has existed forever. And I think the reason why my work has been... like my personal work. And then of course it translates into my, my, uh, my brand's work, is that when we can return to our roots, particularly folk practices and sister practices and customs, um, in the context of magic and the context of spirituality, it is an act of decolonizing because then you start saying like, I am Chinese, and this is what we do, what we did or what we do. And it is it's, it's being more visible. Like at least it certainly was that way for me. Um, especially when I first started my business where honestly, every single spiritual teacher or healer out there was practicing yoga. And I don't think Not even one of them was actually from Indian descent. Like, like it's just like, okay, so a bunch of people are practicing yoga. A bunch of white people practicing yoga, um, and waving, you know, crystal clusters around. It had an aesthetic, right? Like, and it was all like people in their twenties. So it was just like, okay, well wellness means you must be young, which to me is just reinforcing age-ism and all the things that we see problematic in the fashion industry, how you must be skinny, you have, it must be like, you know, like all these things. And when we decolonize, we naturally wind up asking that question of, do I need permission and realizing I don't need permission because that concept permission is rooted in enslavement. Like what, like, fuck, I can't make a decision for myself? I need to ask so-and-so? Like, I need to submit a paper to the establishment and get approval or whatever it is. Right. Like it's like, or I needs to submit it to a man? That that equals ownership. Like I am somebody's property. But when you realize that you're no one's property and that you're no one's slave, that idea of permission is all of a sudden, no longer part of the conversation.

Kristy Yee: 35:04

Dang. I want to take back that word

Mimi Young: 35:08

I mean, I wrote, I wrote it down on paper cause I was like, I love how you're using the word permission because it's like, it reveals so much or reveals just how much we have been colonized and indoctrinated.

Kristy Yee: 35:20

And how much we don't have the freedom of choice to practice in the way that we want to practice. To live the way that we want to live, to do the things that we want to do in our own way.

Mimi Young: 35:32

Totally. And you know, I've I've looked at. China so many times I've I've I don't know about you, but it just sort of like, what were the conditions that led to the cultural revolution? What were the conditions that led to communism? like it's, you know, one can see it if one starts noticing. And it was because there was that abuse of freedom that led the whole country to crumble and resurface as nobody has freedom anymore. And I know what I said is very, very, um, what's the word? Uh, probably controversial, you know, because one, cause one can say is, is it's a freedom to hurt people, real freedom. Like it's, you know, like it's I get it. and really what, what the cultural revolution was a reaction to was a lot of people were on the top where very few people are on the top and they were abusing their freedoms. and they, they didn't look out and you know, there was a lot of, corruption and a lot of nepotism and a lot of, uh, a lot of, you know, a lot of pain for people who weren't in those inner circles of power. And so the cultural revolution was a reaction. And it was a natural one. and yet it gave birth to a whole other political system, which also has its issues too, that we know today. And like I said, it's, you know, even saying this out loud, is it's, it could potentially be something that's going to arise, a strong reaction from for certain listeners. Because I know that I have my bias of being Taiwanese. Um, yet I also see it happening and here in the west, it's like, if this continues, we are heading in the same direction, we're already on our way there. So it's. But you know, we, we, that, that might have to be a different episode altogether, um, because is, is rationing food and, you know, is, is that the best way of handling things? I don't know.

Angie Yu: 37:33

I will say though, as someone who's, who has become really familiar with it, that history is that most people who quote unquote, I get offended by are people who haven't actually done their research, but have an opinion on it. I am not offended by what you said. I think what you said is absolutely true. And I agree with that a hundred percent, you know, I guess another lesson from that is like, Hey, which is which I, I, am a hypocrite because I just did that with the book. You know, I judged the book, what did I actually do my own research? So, you know, uh, do what I say, know what I do.

Kristy Yee: 38:07

When you call yourself out, you know,

Angie Yu: 38:10

Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 38:11

I think so we touched upon like the cultural revolution and how that's robbed people who live in China from being in tuned with their culture. Like that's, that's fucking what the cultural revolution means. Like you take away. Okay. So it's been robbed and, and the people. Who first experienced that firsthand, basically our parents' generation, right? That has a trickle effect down to us, whether or not I think whether or not they're they live in China or, or they have come here. I think there has there's, there's a trickle effect down to the next generation of what the cultural revolution has done in ways. And what I mean by that is like ripping us away from understanding our own cultures, whether it's practices, whether it's books, whether it's knowledge, whatever it is. And then we also talked about how colonialism did the same thing. They shamed and demonized other practices that they are not familiar with by calling it witchcraft by, by associating it with the devil like evil things, right? Like this is, this is not something that we talk about or do know?

Angie Yu: 39:14

We're even just like identifying or pushing a witchcraft into the category of quote unquote bad

Mimi Young: 39:22

exactly. Yeah. Like I think the term is accurate witchcraft it's it's true, but it doesn't mean bad.

Angie Yu: 39:29

Yeah. Because in history, like witchcraft was something that women did to empower themselves. And, of course men were like, nip numbness. We don't like, that That's bad. Let's burn you at the stake.

Kristy Yee: 39:41

And, and like, think

Angie Yu: 39:42

Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 39:42

the other things that has also been deemed as bad. That really shouldn't be like racism. You know, we're gonna go way back, not even way back, like 50 years back, if you are a different color, that's bad. And so people try to lighten their skin, et cetera. If you are a certain body size, well that's bad. And so then diet culture happens. And if you practice witchcraft well, that's bad. So like all of these things is, is really a control of culture. Of controlling us as women, as people of color, as people who are just non Eurocentric Christians. And, and that's a way that they are taking away our freedom and our, our way to express our own cultures. And I think that that is, I don't know, like, I don't know what I think. I it's just sad. Right? Like both the cultural revolution and colonialism has very similar effects in terms of the harm that it has caused us and everybody else around us.

Angie Yu: 40:48

yeah,

Kristy Yee: 40:49

I don't know where I'm going with this. I'm just expressing my thoughts and feelings.

Angie Yu: 40:53

yeah, I was going to say, what you're saying is basically fact doesn't mean that we have a solution, but, um, yeah, only thing you can do is really just keep talking about it. This, this is so funny. Like we were expecting to learn all this stuff about spirituality and someone is, now we're talking about,

Mimi Young: 41:11

About politics. you know, why? Because spirituality is. And because politics is informed by spirituality, people who start wars, they usually blame it. Well, they don't blame it. They justify it because God said so.

Angie Yu: 41:25

right.

Mimi Young: 41:26

Right. So, So, that's why we keep on go or we, I do it too. I find everything goes back to politics because spirituality and politics are fairly interchangeable.

Kristy Yee: 41:48

Do you tell us a little bit more about dreams? I'm curious.

Angie Yu: 41:50

Yeah. I'm not, I know Kristy is dying to ask you, how do I have more lucid dreams? Cause I, I love my dreams. Like they're so lucid and for me it feels like I'm filing shit away for the future. Um, but Chris is always like, what, what? Yeah, so.

Mimi Young: 42:06

I would say, okay, well, first of all, you know, I've never done this on a podcast before I, I did record an entire podcast episode about and dream practices on another one. It's called woo. New talking about woo it's. So funny. W O O and then K N E w um, you can access it through my website. I also talk about it in an article that I did with goop, um, and same thing. You could access it through my press and podcast section on my website and just click on the goop, uh, photo. Um, and that would take you to the article, but just so that we can talk about it here, I would say it's really important to view your dream. As your allies like to view that medium as a friend or a group of friends and begin. Um, the idea of going to sleep as you would, when you're getting ready to meet your friends. So I typically shower before I see my friends and make sure I have good breath. So, you know, hygiene is important, which means if you're thinking, thinking, thinking, doing, doing, doing, watching Netflix to write to the minute that you go to bed, you're not going to have a really clean conversation in your dream. So making sure that dream hygiene there is isn't there. Cause you're, you're going to be meeting with friends second, have an intention. Like why are you meeting with your friends? You're going to go for a jog together. Are you going to go for lunch? Are you going to, you know, gossip about someone have that intention there? Just kidding what the last one, but you know what I mean? And then, yeah. And then go go to bed. You know, that intention is important because essentially you're casting that dreams. So when you're in your dream, then you can be conscious whether if it is, you're trying to sort out something that's been bothering you, or you want to maybe connect with an ancestor. Um, and it really does work when you go in with that, that hygiene in place and that intention, um, and it doesn't have to be necessarily for the intention, dreaming. It could be for the intention, any type of thing that you would like to see experience, or maybe help support like a resolution towards, in a dream. Um, but yeah, that really helps. And sometimes, you know, you can either say it or you can just write it on a sheet of paper, and then maybe place it under your pillow or something, or next to your bed, um, and then go to sleep. And then there's some allies that are really helpful. Some plant allies. I. I'd like to work with mugwort. which of course is, you know, part of our culture. It's part of many cultures, actually. There's many different types of mugwort that exist. there there's one key, one that exists sort of in, you know, are. from a culture perspective is a mugwort that is often found in like moxa or, other forms of, TCM based practices. But, but yeah, McGuire, it's really great. you can make it, you know, like, uh, you don't have to make a strong tea, but you can make, uh, like a herbal tea with either dried or fresh mugwort. And have a sit before bed and actually talk to the tea, talk to before going to bed with the same idea. So you've, you've done your hygiene. You've, you know, speak with her with that intention and then ask her to. Almost behave like an interpreter between the dream itself and you, or if it's not interpreter kind of like a bridge, like she'll be a bit of that conduit that, that mediator, uh, really, really helpful. And if you're not interested in, you know, drinking a tea and of course I have to say this just for legality, like consult with your herbalists before consuming any plant. But if you're not interested in that, I do have a mist that's on my website. It's called the astral dream MIS that contains a high concentration of mugwort that you can basically missed your bed and miss your aura, and then go to sleep with that intention of having some form of communication with spirits while you're dreaming.

Kristy Yee: 46:06

I did not expect like a, here are the steps did great. That's so great because I always been saying like, okay, I need to stop watching my YouTube all the way until the minute I pass out, you know, like I have that, I want to do that. Right. But then every night I don't, every night, I'm still back on the YouTube and I'm still doing my thing until I pass out. And, and, and sometimes that's because I'm going through depression and I just need that outlet. And I need that extra kick of whatever it is. And sometimes it's just habit. Right. And, and it doesn't, it doesn't ever feel good. It's not like, Ooh, I feel so refresh after watching like two hours of YouTube.

Mimi Young: 46:49

Well, well, this is the thing. So I mean, want to get science-y there's serotonin and dopamine sounds like you really liked dopamine and they have like that, that dependency on dopamine, but really what's going to help, with maintaining a more regulated brain. Including moods regulated moods is to really create a space more for a serotonin cultivation, serotonin takes more time. And it's more of that long form of building. So build reward systems and pleasure systems that is more around discipline, such as creating some dream hygiene. Cause like most of us, like, at least when I meet with my friends, like, I'm not just like, you know, Going from work to friends. Like I usually, there's usually a bathroom trip along the way where I like clean my teeth and like, make sure that I'm, I'm presented not from a, a shame perspective, but just out of respect for the other person or if they're coming over, which maybe it's not happening so much right now, still as we're opening up from COVID. But at least before you clean your house, right? Like you, like, you clean your home and like you put out food that is not leftover. Do you make new food? Like you, you put your, your better foot forward, same thing with dreams. And same thing with building serotonin.

Kristy Yee: 48:09

I think like all of that stuff that you said, you know, making sure you, you dress nice, you keep your hygiene, you clean your house. That is also comes from like us building an environment that feels good for us. Because I want to engage with my friends. I'm going to create a space and an environment where they feel good and I feel good so that we can all have a good time. And I think you're totally right. I think there's a lot of folks who don't do enough of that before their bedtime ritual and myself included. And I am so much more motivated now.

Mimi Young: 48:38

Yeah, it's investing in you and it's investing in a relationship with the unseen

Kristy Yee: 48:43

Holy shit. That's so, That's

Angie Yu: 48:45

Yeah. And, you know, like for those of us who are obsessed with Sage, you now have a woman of color to support rather than Sage. So there you go. And that's that's me also.

Kristy Yee: 49:00

I have too much Sage. Oh my goodness. Okay. I do want to wrap up for our conversation today. How are you feeling Mimi?

Mimi Young: 49:07

I'm feeling great. I, I loved how, yeah. I loved how, we just chatted and we, we covered a lot.

Kristy Yee: 49:13

I think so too. I never would have expected again, that we would talk about colonialism and the cultural revolution and the social justice and political aspects of things. And feel like, I, feel like, I'm ready and I want to embrace my own culture and my roots and my own spirituality a lot more after this conversation. So thank you so much, maybe.

Mimi Young: 49:36

I am so thrilled to hear that.

Angie Yu: 49:39

Aw, you guys.

Kristy Yee: 49:44

Come into the mush with us, feel, feel the things. I do want to ask you one more question for our listeners. If anyone of you, poop, troops felt similar that you want to open up and be more in touch with your own spirituality side. Any, any tips for our listeners on how they can start that practice.

Mimi Young: 50:04

Returned to food. I would say what your parents, what your grandparents, what your great, great, what your great grandparents ate. food carries very healing vibrations, and if you're open to it, uh, they have their own voices to the dishes. So that's number one. I talked about the dreams already. Yeah. And work with folks that have done this kind of work. So they know what that terrain looks like. Um, you know, I never make sense for someone to let's say, learn Chinese astrology from a white person. Like really, you think that's a good idea. I don't.

Kristy Yee: 50:42

I don't want to shit on people even like TMC. I,

Mimi Young: 50:45

I have very strong opinions. I will not go to someone who is not a Chinese lineage, for acupuncture or any type of, you know, traditional Chinese herbalism. It just doesn't make sense.

Kristy Yee: 50:58

I tried it, it, it didn't, it, it, felt different if I go to TMC and I need to, you know, get some herbs and like make some tea. Right. I'm going to the 70 year old grandma, grandpa

Mimi Young: 51:12

totally, exactly. And you know, you really notice a difference, right? Like if I go to one of those like clinics that have, you know, orchids in the foyer and beautiful spa music playing, and then I go in and the doctor might feel my pulse might, and then they ask me. Like 12 questions. Whereas I go to mine, she doesn't ask me any questions. She tells me to stick out my tongue and she feels my pulse and she knows everything. She needs to know. She doesn't ask questions, barely talks to me, but she knows exactly what to do. Well. I mean, the body is intuitive and they know that they know that it's not only intuitive, but there's records in our pulse there's records. Like w this is several years ago now I was traveling to visit family in Taiwan. And I went to a TCM doctor there and very, very old man, um, spoke very thick Taiwanese, and I don't speak Taiwanese but I understand how he needs, but it was so thick that it was just a little bit hard to understand. He felt my pulse. And he said right away, he said you were born through a C-section. You have gut issues? Like I was like, like, how on earth? I'm see anything. I swore he was psychic. But the thing is, this is when art and science or magic and science are the same.

Angie Yu: 52:43

Wow. Wait, is that, is that a thing? If you're born through C-section you have gut issues? Cause I have gut issues and I was born through

Mimi Young: 52:50

Yeah. Well, supposedly it later on, I actually did some research on this it's because if you were born through C-section oftentimes the mother's given antibiotics

Angie Yu: 53:00

um,

Mimi Young: 53:02

the

Kristy Yee: 53:03

colonies that is in your own gut afterwards. Yeah. And because you're also not passing through the vaginal canal, you're also not being exposed as too many bacteria cultures through the vaginal canal as, you know? Yeah. So you basically missed out on the bacterial exposure through vagina.

Angie Yu: 53:20

yeah. So that's the science and the art is putting your finger on a random person in a person's paws and be like, you ever have a C-section and you have gut issues. Yeah.

Mimi Young: 53:31

Totally. I mean, I was just so blown away because, and the fact that they can feel and hear the nuances, and that's the kind of listening I'm talking about. It's not like a doctor hears things in that literal very obvious way. Same thing with spirit communication. It's very subtle.

Kristy Yee: 53:48

Yeah.

Mimi Young: 53:49

the minute you say, I don't think that was real. It's gone.

Kristy Yee: 53:52

Mm.

Mimi Young: 53:52

You have to say, I'm going to trust that even though it was just a faint whisper.

Kristy Yee: 53:58

So I started doing that. I started having doubts and then I started to not feel as much things anymore. And I think that's because I study science, I am a dietitan I went through, I did the white people, university stuff, you know, and, and I started having sort of having the doubts and I feel, I feel like that made me me misaligned with a part of my body. And through this conversation today, I think I want to pay more attention to those, those things again, and be more accepting and be more open about that. I do want to put out a little caveat for people who have went through a C-section have gone through a C-section. This is no shame for people who have gone through a C-section. Okay. Don't feel bad. Like this is you, you freaking made a human in your body. And so you want to bring it out to this world in the safest, most possible way. And sometimes a C-section is what you have to do to do that, to protect yourself and your child.

Mimi Young: 54:55

I mean, I'm sure angie and I, we can both confirm that that was the only way for us to be born given the circumstances, right?

Kristy Yee: 55:03

Mimi, thank you so much for hanging out with us and sharing your wisdom. And I just feel like I talk so much. so

Mimi Young: 55:11

Oh, good, good,

Kristy Yee: 55:12

where can our listeners find You

Mimi Young: 55:14

You can find me on my website, which is shop ceremony.com. Ceremony is spelled with an I E at the end. They can also find me on same handle shop ceremony and if you go onto my website, there's usually sort of a list of upcoming and offerings and so forth, but there's a fair amount of content. You know, my monthly magazine, there's a blog. and yeah, like extensive information and access to other podcasts. I've been on

Kristy Yee: 55:42

Lots of good stuff. So we will link all of those in the show notes, including the goop article that you had mentioned, as well as the who knew yes. The wound new podcast episode. So we'll link all of that for you guys to listen thank you again.

Mimi Young: 55:58

Thank you for having me.