Introducing Bottles

Have you felt intimidated when starting bottles with your breastfed baby?

Do you know what paced bottle feeding is?

Have you received bad information about bottles (you probably have)?

Check out this information about introducing bottles, and get all your questions answered.

If you are a new listener, we would love to hear from you.  Please consider leaving us a review on itunes or sending us an email with your suggestions and comments to badassbreastfeedingpodcast@gmail.com

WE HAVE TRANSCRIPTS!!  You can also add your email to our list and have episodes sent right to your inbox!

Things we talked about:

Abby tells her bottle story [6:04]

No one tells you how to do it [8:16]

Waiting a couple weeks to pump/bottle feed [10:03]

No more than four [11:06]

Picking a bottle [13:56]

Slow flow nipples and a word from capitalism [15:56]

Is bottle feeding harder than breastfeeding?  The science behind it [20:08]

Feeding is trust [25:17]

Paced bottle feeding [27:51]

*This Episode is sponsored by Original Sprout and Niki’s Natural Wipes

Links to information we discussed or episodes you should check out!

https://www.diannecassidyconsulting.com/2014/04/19/is-bottle-feeding-really-easier-for-babies-than-breastfeeding/

https://www.diannecassidyconsulting.com/2021/06/08/the-benefits-of-paced-bottle-feeding/

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/episode/071-overfeeding-paced-bottle-feeding/

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/episode/bottles-versus-breast/

Set up your consultation with Dianne

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/consultations/     

Check out Dianne’s blog here~

https://diannecassidyconsulting.com/milklytheblog/

Don’t Forget!!  Dianne and Abby have started the new parenting podcast!  Check out Revolution Parenting!  

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1755123/8400508

Follow our Podcast~

• https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com

Here is how you can connect with Dianne and Abby~

• Abby Theuring  https://www.thebadassbreastfeeder.com
• Dianne Cassidy http://www.diannecassidyconsulting.com

Music we use~

Music: "Levels of Greatness" from "We Used to Paint Stars in the Sky (2012)" courtesy of Scott Holmes at freemusicarchive.org/music/Scott Holmes

Transcript

dianne  (00:00):

welcome to the bad-ass breastfeeding podcast. This is Dianne, your lactation consultant,

abby (00:25):

and I'm Abby, the badass breastfeeder. And today's episode is brought to you by Niki's natural wipes. The first all natural baby wipes made with menuca honey and coconut oil. And today's episode is also brought to you by original sprout. Original sprout carries safe, effective pediatrician tested shampoos, conditioners, styling, and body care products produced and packaged in the USA. Uh, we'll hear more from our sponsors later, but, uh, these sponsors make this podcast possible. Uh, please head to badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com and check out our sponsor page. If you need anything, see that, see that, see if you can give them any of your business. And while you're there, scroll down and enter your email address and we'll send episodes straight to your inbox every Monday. And now Dianne has our review of the week.

dianne  (01:17):

And this review of the week comes from an email that went to you and you sent to me so that we could use it as a review of the week.

abby (01:25):

Yes. Cause it's awesome.

New Speaker (01:27):

It was a good one. Yes. Hey, y'all I'm a full-time mom to a gorgeous five month old boy. My story is very similar to Abby story with Jack. Y'all Brought me so much comfort and peace, but most importantly, strength. Y'all are amazing. And I tell everyone about your podcast. I've listened to every episode and can't wait to start listening to your new show. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your experiences and learnings I'm writing today because I just had one of the best laughs. I'm in my car. Listening to the latest episode about foremilk and Abby is on a mini rant about capitalism and then cuts to word from our sponsors. AKA commercials. I laughed so hard, fucking capitalism. I hope this gave you both a good chuckle. Again. Thank you so much. And thanks to the sponsors too, I guess, with all of our love Jadah and Kyrie, and she did include a picture of the gorgeous five month old boy, who is a gorgeous little boy. Thank you so much. And yeah, capitalism.

abby (02:22):

Well, put your seatbelts on so I can go into another rant About capitalism. So here we go. We all live in capitalism, right? We all live inside of the system. Yes. I am ranting about this system inside of the system while participating in the system because the capitalism is make money or die and that's the bottom line. And I still, I will still say that, um, you know, billionaires and these trillion dollar companies that basically profit off of people dying, you know, as a result of their products or blatant lies, you know, that go on that they spread around world. That shit needs to stop and that shouldn't exist in my opinion. Um, also what I would like to say is that make, make yourself some money, because I feel like this happens a lot with these, with the field, especially the helping professions and any kind of like woman dominated field, which is usually the helping professions. Um, we feel like guilty about making money. Like, oh, you know, we really should be helping each other. We should be giving this information. We should, you know, we should just, it should just be free and, and, and, and it should, but we live in capitalism and get paid for what you do. Get paid for your work. And like, don't feel guilty about that. I see people like with like art, they're like here, here, it's $2. I don't want to say no, man. That was like materials and labor and your skills. And like, anyway, obviously that's a whole other conversation and a whole thing I can go on forever about, but like, you know, make money and don't feel bad about it.

dianne  (04:06):

Yeah, absolutely.

abby (04:09):

You don't need to lie to people about it. That's not necessary anyway. Yeah. That is really funny. That is really funny.

dianne  (04:15):

Yeah. And we, we know that, Hey, here's a word from our sponsors, our sponsors. So at least we know, right. We're admitting that we also too are in this system,

abby (04:24):

but we know that sponsors, you guys know, I hopefully you guys can put it together that like sponsors pay us. They pay us and we pay our our podcast bills with that money. And, you know, that's yep.

dianne  (04:39):

We do pick very specific ones.

abby (04:41):

So that's true. I mean, like, again, with these people that lie and like, say these things that are true, that are not true to try to get you to buy stuff and we could talk, and we'll talk more about that in this episode today about bottles, but like, that shit is not okay. That is not okay. And like so dangerous and people die. People literally die. Not from really, probably from what we're going to talk about today, but from things like, you know, lying about how, you know, these formula companies that lie about their products and go to countries that don't even have clean water. And they're like, oh no, this is better. And they mix it with the dirty water and babies die and like, Ugh. Yeah. It's really sad. Anyway. Oh my God. See, I can go on forever. Like, that's gonna be my third podcast.

dianne  (05:29):

We can start that one next week. And if you aren't listening to our second podcast yet it's revolution parenting. So jump on board. It's a lot of fun. You'll enjoy it. Yep. What about parenting? But today we're going to focus on starting bottles and introducing bottles to your baby.

abby (05:48):

What the hell man?

dianne  (05:49):

Yeah, that's hard. Right?

abby (05:50):

Like I remember Like doing that with Jack and like it, well, I dunno. Is it time for me to tell my story?

dianne  (05:56):

Absolutely.

abby (05:57):

Is this time for me to keep talking?

dianne  (06:02):

Yes. Tell your story.

abby (06:04):

Yeah. So the whole idea was that I was, I was working as a social worker and I was going to have Jack and I was going to take, you know, take my maternity leave and then go back to work. And I, you know, along with trying to figure out breastfeeding and all of those stuff that goes on with like postpartum, like all of that, you know, I was having a really hard time and, um, I decided to quit my job, but, but with bottle, you know, with first of all, with pumping, I was like, I can never pump enough to have like, you know, a freezer full of milk, which is what I thought I had have. And, um, no one ever talked to me about like bottles, how much to put into it. I remember like we were, I was pumping immediately. Like as soon as I got home from the hospital, I was pumping all the time. You know, like putting the baby down to pump. Huh. And then, you know, filling up these bottles with, I wish we were supplementing. So obviously you have to use a bottle for that. But I was just putting in like random amounts. I didn't know how much to put in there. Nobody told me, I was just like, oh, here's a bottle. You all will fill it up. And then like feed it to him. He eats it. So that must be fine, you know, flat on his back, just holding them, you know? Like you see? Yeah. I had no idea. I had no idea. We're going to talk about pace bottle feeding later. I didn't hear about that till like few years ago.

dianne  (07:27):

I know me neither.

abby (07:28):

I had never heard of that. No one tells you anything. You just go home. Here's a pump. Here's some bottles have fun, good luck.

dianne  (07:36):

And they tell you, oh yeah. When it's time to introduce a bottle, or if you say, oh, I've got to, you know, I've got to go back to work. I've got to return to work because let's face it in our society. Now bottles are very real part of your breastfeeding journey. I don't meet too many parents who don't ever that don't ever give a bottle. It's just not as common. So you are at some point probably going to give a bottle.

abby (08:00):

yeah. Even if you don't work, so you want to go out, you want to go, you want to sleep a little extra And have somebody else feed the baby or, you know, Whatever people are just, people are doing this. And it's one of those modern day conveniences that we get to take advantage of.

dianne  (08:16):

Right. And there's, you know, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But you might even ask somebody, well, how do I go about giving the bottle? And they might say, oh, just put some milk in it and give him the bottle whenever you want to give it a shot. What are you confused about? Right. And it's, it is confusing because there's a lot of, really, a lot of misinformation out there about giving bottles. You wouldn't think there would be, but there is, and it is confusing because what if they don't take the bottle? How do you know how much milk to put in the bottle? How do you know how to feed it to them? What if they don't take it? Well, what if they choke? What if they're, I don't know if they spit up after it, like what happens?

abby (08:59):

So much of the bottle information comes from formula. Yes. Right. And then, and then it, but then it's different when you're dealing with breast milk. And then so then it's an extra layer of confusion to access that information.

dianne  (09:11):

Yeah. So we're, hopefully we're going to be able to clear the air a little bit on some stuff today,

abby (09:15):

because now that we've told you all the things you're confused about, I know all the things you already knew. I know.

dianne  (09:22):

So hopefully we're going to like, seriously, we're going to hopefully clear the air a little bit. But when it comes down to introducing bottles, I would say, do not start doing that until at least two weeks. I mean, if you're in a position where your baby's feeding fine and they're gaining weight and you're recovering from having your baby, then just feed your baby. That's all you need to do for the first two weeks. You don't have to do anything. Yeah.

abby (09:49):

That is absolutely the best thing to do. Yes. Is like, keep your baby at your breast as much as possible. That is the best thing to do. Don't listen to all this. Like, no, you need to add the pumping in you should, you know, or you know, all this stuff. If you, if somebody tells me telling you that you have to do that, that helps your milk come in. That's like how you get started. That's the best way. That's not true.

dianne  (10:13):

No, just hang out with your baby. If for some reason you're separated from each other, uh, for health reasons or if the baby's not gaining weight or not feeding well, and we need to introduce pumping, then that is a whole different scenario. And you really need to work with a lactation consultant about that. But if everything is fine, then don't introduce. And that's one of the reasons is because I just wouldn't want you to pump before. Then it can cause problems. If you're pumping and feeding in those first two weeks. And we do have, I believe we do have an oversupply episode. Yeah. Yeah, we do. Yeah. So we'll have to link to that because that'll give you more information on that, but it'll, you know, it can exacerbate your supply. You're telling your body, you need more milk than what you really need. So we try to say, you know what, wait a couple of weeks. And then after a couple of weeks, if you want to introduce a bottle, you can, it really depends on the age of your baby as to how much milk you're going to put in that bottle. But this is really important here. You do not need to ever give your baby more than four ounces. Even when they're six months old, I don't care. They're six months old, eight months old, whatever. No more than they don't need any more than four ounces. And that's because the breast milk will change to accommodate what your baby needs and formula does not do that. So you have to keep increasing formula to get the baby what they need. But with breast milk, your body changes the milk to adapt to what their, their growing need is. And they don't really need more volume because everything is there. So you'd never need a lot

abby (11:52):

Sometimes they take Less, right? Sometimes they'll take less than four ounces And that's not a problem. It's not like they're not eating or they're, you know, try and find to get their bikini. Their summer bodies are not, they're just like totally fine. They just, some you know, just like some people eat more than others, more than four ounces, but sometimes less.

dianne  (12:12):

So you don't ever have to worry about like, you have to, you know, leave so much milk. And that, that is very hard because a lot of people are under the impression that your baby should be getting more than what they're getting, because that is bottle feeding culture. And that is formula feeding culture, but that is not for breastfed babies. So, yeah.

abby (12:30):

And a lot of times people think that too, because, well, my baby was offered eight ounces and they took eight ounces. Yeah. So that means that they needed eight ounces. And that is not the case.

dianne  (12:42):

And sometimes too, you'll hear that when somebody says, well, you know, I'd like to introduce a bottle. How much should I give? And you, your medical professional might say to you, well, whatever they take, give them what they take when they stop. Then they've had enough. Your baby for the first three months of their life. The suck reflex is in voluntary. They can't help it. If you put the bottle in their mouth, they're going to suck it down. And each suck facilitates a swallow, which is going to facilitate another suck. And then before, you know, it, that bottle is gone. Doesn't matter how much was in there. It's gone. And it looks like they sucked it down. Like they'd never eaten before. And that is really, really deceiving and confusing if you don't, if you don't realize that that's what will happen.

abby (13:29):

Yeah. Really what happened is that they were overfed And then people think, well, I can't, I can't pump that much. I'm not keeping up with my Baby. Yeah. But the thing is, is that they're being fed more way more than what they need and you actually can keep up with it.

dianne  (13:43):

It really it's just start with about two ounces in a bottle.

abby (13:48):

That's a crazy cycle. Like it feeds on itself, you know, like it's just one thing leads to the other.

dianne  (13:56):

Yeah. It's really bad cycle. It's really, it's really confusing once you're in it too. It's really hard. It's hard to break out, but your baby, I mean, they, they give them about, start with about two ounces and that should be plenty. And then we like said, we're going to be talking about pace bottle feeding, but it is really important. There's a couple things that go along with having that, you know, having that bottle and the pace bottle feeding is as one thing, nipple size is another thing. SomeTimes people say, you know, babies are very particular about what kind of bottle they have. Sometimes they, they can be, so don't just have one bottle and that's it. You know, don't have one brand of bottle. You might need a couple of different kinds to see what your baby is going to like the best. And that is one of the things when we were talking you know, in the beginning of this episode about the lies that can be told to you through capitalism, you do hear all the time. If you go look at bottles, you will see them say, this bottle is best for the breastfeeding baby. That is because they want you to buy their bottle. They, they didn't, it doesn't mean that it's really the best thing for your breastfed baby. They don't know. What's the best thing for your breastfed baby is cause it's your baby. And that nipple doesn't look like yours.

abby (15:18):

So marketing is easier when it's like, here's the blanket statement on all babies. Yeah. But that's not how anything works.

dianne  (15:26):

It's not. So don't worry about what that says, get something that works for you and your baby. And you might have to try a couple of different bottle nipples to do that.

abby (15:37):

But yeah. And if your friend is like, Hey, I've got a couple, you want to borrow them? Do it. Yeah. Do it. Yeah. It's fine. Just wash them. No big deal. You can like boil them and sterilize them and then use them on your own baby. Always. Yeah. Try a couple, a diff a bunch of different ones and find what's good before you spend a bunch of money on stuff.

dianne  (15:56):

Always make sure it's a slow flow nipple. That's important. Yes. That is an important piece of it. And I think after our break for our capitalism, we're going to talk a little bit about paced feeding, and we're going to also talk about how bottles aren't necessarily easier.

abby (16:14):

Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. So, uh, we'll be right back after a word from capitalism. Today's episode is brought to you by Niki's natural wipes. Niki's was created out of the passion of two new parents wanting to protect the health of their precious new baby, Niki. Conventional baby wipes contain harsh chemicals, chemicals that can lead to redness, itchiness, dry skin, a burning sensation, and even blisters and urinary tract infections. Utilizing the miraculous antibacterial qualities of menuca honey, combined with the proven ability of coconut oil to moisturize dry skin, Nikis set a new global standard for premium baby wipes. The smell and feel of the wipes is unique. 100% natural ethically sourced, EWG certified and biodegradable. Check out the first all natural baby wipes made with menuca honey and coconut oil on Nikis.com. That's N I K I s.com and use code promo code badass badass 10, sorry. Promo code badass 10 at Nikis.com for 10% off of your purchase. And today's episode is also brought to you by original sprout. Original sprout carries, safe, effective, and pediatrician, tested shampoos, conditioners, styling, body care products produced and packaged in California, USA. Their hair and body baby wash is made with gentle moisturizing ingredients, such as organic calendula and refreshing Rosemary extract. Rosemary helps stimulate scalp circulation and calm cradle cap and eczema. The hair and body baby wash is ideal for babies, children, and adults alike. All of original sprouts products are Parabon and falate free vegan And cruelty-free. Their proprietary formulas contain nourishing extracts from fruits, vegetables, and flowers that the whole family can enjoy. They are not just for babies anymore. Check out the entire line@originalsprout.com and use code badass for 25% off your purchase code badass for 25% off of your purchase there. And these sponsors and their promo codes can be found in our show notes. Under this episode on badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com our show notes will also include further information about things we talk about in this episode and at badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com, you will also find our breastfeeding resources, all of our other episodes and information about scheduling your very own one-on-one online lactation consultation with Dianne.

dianne  (18:53):

Absolutely.

abby (18:54):

Now. Yeah. And you work with people on this all the time, right?

dianne  (18:59):

Yeah. I do. People contact me all the time. If their baby's not taking a bottle well or they're unsure about how to start one, or it always just comes up, you know, with even just like their normal, okay. We're having a latch problems or I'm having pain with my latch or anything like that. Guaranteed. One of the first questions they're going to ask me once we get everything cleared up as how do I introduce bottle or when is a good time to do that, right? Because it is confusing. And we just don't know. But one of the biggest confusions is that people say it's easier to bottle feed than to breastfeed. So if you give your baby too many bottles, they're going to prefer the bottle. They're going to learn to prefer the bottle.

abby (19:45):

Right. They say it's easier for the baby. Yes. So see, it's easier for the baby because the baby's lazy M-effer who just like gets this milk super easily from the bottle. And then it's too hard to get it out of the breast. So they're super fussy. And then they just won't go back to the breast. So people say this all the time. Yeah. So what's happening?

dianne  (20:08):

Well, what's actually happening is bottle feeding is actually harder for babies physiologically. It is harder for babies because we know babies were meant to breastfeed, right? Like that's what they're supposed to be doing when they are breastfeeding, their breathing is better. Their blood sugar is more regulated. All of it is just what their body is supposed to do. So it's actually bottle-feeding is actually more difficult than them for, for them, I should say. Um, so let's talk about their muscles. First. Their muscles are gravely important to the natural evolution of the face and mouth teeth, and overall oral facial development. The masseter muscle, which is what supports the up and down movement of the jaw is important to facilitating jaw growth and positioning. Bottle feeding actually reduces the activity of the masseter muscle reduces jaw movement, and may cause the tongue to retract. Now while breastfeeding breathing is combined with sucking and swallowing, usually happening in bursts, this action helps infants manipulate, breathing patterns to control and accommodate breathing. Sucking during bottle-feeding can interrupt, breathing more frequently. And for a longer duration of time, breastfeeding also promotes the infant's ability to breathe through the nose, which aids in heating and filtering air before reaching the lungs. Moreover air coming in through the nose, puts additional pressure on the palette, which encourages it and accompanies general growth of facial muscles and body. Creating a vacuum is necessary in both breast and bottle feeding so that sucking and swallowing can occur. So this is really fascinating stuff. This is from a blog that I wrote a couple of years ago on the truth behind taking bottles. And I will link to this into, in our show notes too, so that you can read more about it because I did link into a couple of research studies with this, and it really is fascinating that your baby has to breathe completely differently when they're taking a bottle. And when they're breastfeeding, things are very, very easy for them. It's much easier for them to breastfeed them to bottle feed.

abby (22:26):

So is it possible that the parent is well, so I don't know. So, so because people will see their babies being very fussy at their breast. Yeah. So is this kind of a fear of the loss of breastfeeding that's playing into our perception of what's going on? Kind of happy at the bottle, fussy at the breast?

dianne  (22:51):

I think so. And I think that happy at the bottle is deceiving too at times.

abby (22:57):

Cause I remember that, I remember the, remember that having the bottle being like, yeah, this is so easy also, now that I think about it, they are flat on their back, what are they supposed to do? Right. And then they're at the breast and they're fussy cause they're babies. And you know, I'm like, oh my God, he's not, he doesn't want a nurse. Oh the other thing too, is that we're, we're over, we're probably being overfed in the bottle with the bottle. Right.

dianne  (23:21):

Very, very, very common to overfeed by bottle.

abby (23:24):

Yes. And then you're putting them to the breast and it's like, well, they won't eat.

dianne  (23:28):

They're they're full, was so full. Yeah. And that's what happens, they're overfed. And then you try to breastfeed them and they're like, I, I'm not doing this. I'm full because they control it. Breast and chest feeding is something that they can control. They are in control of their feeds. When they're being bottle fed, you are in control of their feed. So it is a very different process for them. Very, very different. And they're usually overfed when they are bottle fed. And they're usually not fed on demand when they're bottle fed. So when you try to go back to putting them to the breast or the chest, then they're just like, no, I'm good. I don't, I don't want anything. That is usually when people, what I have when people call me and they say, well, the baby's preferring the bottle. It's like, okay, let's talk about what's really going on here. And one of my first questions is usually how much are they getting by bottle? Um, sometimes I'll see it where baby is struggling to go back and forth. Like they are really struggling to figure out like how to bottle feed and breastfeeding is, you know, going very, very well. And then those parents will call and say, well, the baby's not taking a bottle. And they're like, oh, they're just being stubborn. They won't take a bottle. Um, you know, all this craziness, I've heard people, oh, they're just, you know, they won't do it. They just they're mad at me for leaving them at daycare. Like your baby is now strong-willed I know your baby's not manipulating you by not taking a bottle. Or one of my favorites is like, well, if you let them go long enough, they'll get hungry enough where they'll take at like, that's, that's not really fair to your baby. Then it might be that they're really struggling with trying to figure out how to make it work because it is very different. One of the other things that I hear a lot is, oh, only let somebody else give the bottle. Don't let it be the breast or chest feeding parent, because then they will get confused and they won't want it. No, no, no. It is feeding is a trust issue. Feeding. There's a lot of trust that goes into, into feeding. Your baby might be way more comfortable taking that first bottle from the parent that they've been getting all their feedings from . Just if so, if they're having trouble.

abby (25:52):

It's a very good place to start.

dianne  (25:55):

Yes. So don't be afraid to give them that first bottle, because that might be the best way to introduce it is through you.

abby (26:04):

right. You know, you're, you're handing them off to somebody who they're not normally with and then they're stressed and then they have to take a bottle that they're not used to, which is stressful. And that might not go very smoothly.

dianne  (26:18):

No, no. And, and that can, and then that can be stressful. Right? You get people that are like, oh my gosh, I got to go back to work. The baby's not taking a bottle. Everybody ends up in tears. Everybody's crying, their baby screaming. My partner's upset cause they can't feed the baby. It's just, oh my gosh, it's so stressful. It is so stressful. But sometimes you have to start with the slower things to make sure that the baby is taking it Okay. And then move on to other things.

abby (26:48):

Right. So then not everything is brand new as soon as they have to spend the day with somebody new.

dianne  (26:53):

Yeah. I mean, I always tell people, you know, give it a shot. I would try, you know, try to introduce a bottle, especially if you're going back to work, say for example, you're going back to work at three months or when the baby's three months old, I would definitely try giving a bottle halfway in, you know like, because you want to be sure that things are going to go smoothly and if they're not, then we need to work with that and figure out why it's not going smoothly. But just to introduce, you know, you could just kind of introduce one and just make sure it's okay. Make sure you feel okay with it. Make sure the baby's doing okay with it. And then you can, you know, you don't have to do it again for a few weeks if you don't want to.

abby (27:38):

And you do that trial and error With the nipple and all that stuff works for you.

dianne  (27:43):

And yeah, absolutely because it's, it's not easy, but we need to, we should talk about the paced feeding, right? What's paced feeding?

abby (27:51):

Yeah. I love paced feeding because it's a new thing that I learned about and I'm like, I'm so excited about this. Um, so yeah, a few years ago I started learning about paced feeding way beyond any time I ever needed it. But I was like, oh my God, this is so important. This is so, so important. If you are bottle feeding, you absolutely have to be using paced bottle feeding. This is the correct way to use the bottle. It's not just like, oh, if you want to use paced bottle feeding, do it. No, no, no. If you're using a bottle, do paced bottle feeding this technique and we'll put a link to a video on it. Um, so you can see it in action. But um, I've done a ton of videos on this now and I can explain it pretty well. So what will you normally see in the movies, which is where I got all my information about babies, who was, is, you know, you put them in your arm and you know, they're kind of leaning back on their back and you put the bottle in their mouth, straight into their mouth. And then we talked about all the problems that are, you know, with that. So we want to give the baby more control, right? We want the baby to be more in control of the feeding. So we're going to take the baby from this laying down position and put them straight up. Maybe, maybe, maybe reclined a tiny bit. So they don't fall forward. But, um, upright, we want them to be upright, get pillows, put a pillow underneath them, put a pillow under your arms, get nice and comfortable. Cause this is going to take, you know, as long as it takes to nurse, you know, you want, it's probably 15, 20 minutes is going to take for this whole process. Um, and you're going to take a bottle with two ounces of milk in it. And you are going to hold this bottle horizontal to the ground, not straight up, you know, dumping into their mouth, but horizontal, just so that there is milk filling the nipple. And you can, you know, in order to get baby to, you want them to latch real good onto the bottle. So you can kind of tickle their nose or their upper lip with it and get them to reach up and open real wide. Um, put the bottle in, hold the bottle horizontal and let them, let them suck that way. Let them drink the milk for, you know, a couple of minutes. And then after a couple of minutes, keep the bottle in their mouth. Don't take it out, but you're going to tip it toward the floor so that the milk runs out of the nipple. And you're going to let them suck for about a minute on the empty nipple. This is going to help them digest, you know, have the milk kind of settle down a little bit so that they don't eat too quickly. So they don't get, you know, overfeed or, or get a stomach ache or anything like that. Um, and this is where people always say, oh, but they're going to swallow water or air, and this is going to be bad for them. Okay. This was invented again, capitalism. This was invented by bottle companies. That baby swallowing air is bad. That is not true. This is totally made up all these bottles that are like, oh, this baby, you know, this bottle helps your baby not swallow air nonsense. We all swallow air as a part of being a human being. We all swallow air while we're eating. Don't worry about that Part of it. After a little while, after about a minute, put the bottle horizontal again, fill the bottle, fill the nipple, you know, just enough with milk, um, for them to suck on that for another couple of minutes. And then another thing that you can do while they're eating is you can give the, give the bottle a little tug, kind of, kind of tug it out of their mouth a tiny bit, not all the way out, but just a little tug, which will trigger that suck reflex, which will give them that extra, um, usage of all those muscles that are not being used while they're, while they're just sucking on the nipple, you know, which is the difference of bottle feeding versus breastfeeding, which we talked about before. So you can kind of help them, like, you know, utilize those muscles, a little, play, that little tug of war. And then another couple of minutes do the same thing, empty the nipple, have them suck on the empty nipple for a little while and go back and forth and like that for, you know, 10, 10 minutes or so. And then you can take the bottle out and have them just sit there for a little bit, for a little while and then, and then start the process again and see, see if they want more. So, and so now you're going to be looking at your baby. You're going to be wanting to look for signs of fullness, um, which are, you know, you know, baby's clenched fist is maybe less clenched. Maybe you can feel them starting to relax a little in your arms. Um, what else?

dianne  (32:12):

Try to burp them. And you know, that's a good time to burp them in between.

abby (32:18):

Yeah. Or they're not sucking as hard anymore. You can see the, maybe their sucks are slowing down a little. Um, and when you see these signs of fullness, you know, stop. Yeah. Signs of fullness mean they're full. And if they start to get tired or starting to get fussy, it's likely not because they're hungry. It's probably because they're full now and they're tired and they're, you know, babies,

dianne  (32:42):

it's okay to leave some milk in the bottle. They don't have to have the whole thing.

abby (32:47):

Well, which is why it's good to just start with a couple ounces. So you're not wasting, you know, a bunch of milk, um, start with just a couple of ounces so that you're not expecting like, oh, we're going to have four ounce meal today.

dianne  (33:00):

And sometimes when you take that bottle out and kind of give them that little break, if you go to put the bottle back in and they're done, they just won't open up for it anymore. Yeah. So that's another signal that they're done. They're just kind of like, they might move their head around or try to kind of Dodge it a little bit. So it's, you know, it really they'll tell you, they'll tell, they'll be able to tell you, but if you're not practicing paced feeds and the bottle is just in their mouth and then it's just flowing, they can't.

abby (33:32):

No they're going to drink the whole bottle. Cause they have no choice. They'll choke if they don't swallow it.

dianne  (33:37):

Yeah. It's very deceiving.

abby (33:39):

It is. It is. And it's it's um, but this is just information that's not out there.

dianne  (33:44):

Yeah. So pace feeding is definitely the way to go check out the show notes for, you know, a video on that. And then you can share the video with everybody, your caregiver, especially. Yeah. I've, I've had clients that did that, that shared their, shared the video with, you know, their daycare, their caretakers,

abby (34:05):

because don't assume that people know this assume that people don't know it. No, you have to assume that people don't know this because this is just not a thing, especially daycares. And you know, they're just trying to get things done. They're trying to go as fast as they can and try to try to talk to them about how the babies might be fussy, less fussy, how this could benefit them. If they're, you know, feeding a little slower and a little more upright and things like that.

dianne  (34:29):

Yeah, absolutely. And if you have questions, let us know we can help you. We'll lead you in the right direction.

abby (34:36):

We will. We'll never lead you astray.

dianne  (34:41):

We only lead ourselves astray.

abby (34:42):

we do all the time,

Speaker 3 (34:44):

But that's it. Thanks Diane. Hey, we'll see ya. All right. [inaudible].