We Get Real AF
We Get Real AF
Ep. 166: We Get Real with John Samuel, Co-Founder of Ablr 360
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Author, entrepreneur and disability advocate John Samuel began losing his vision at a young age. Instead of letting it limit his future, he's using his experience to expand accessibility across technology and in the workplace. Join us for an aspirational story of grit, resilience, and a more inclusive world.
John Samuel - LinkedIn
John Samuel website & book info
Ablr360
We Get Real AF Podcast Credits:
Producers & Hosts: Vanessa Alava & Sue Robinson
Vanessa Alava
Sue Robinson
Audio Music Track Title: Beatles Unite
Artist: Rachel K. Collier
YouTube Channel Instagram Website
Intro Voice-Over Artist: Veronica Horta
Cover Artwork Photo Credit: Alice Moore
We Get Real AF Podcast / MicDrop Creative
The We Get Real AF Podcast is a production of MicDrop Creative, telling stories that uplift, inspire and empower women worldwide. www.micdropcreative.com
00:00:02 Sue Robinson
Hi everyone, see Robinson here today on the podcast Vanessa and I are sharing an inspiring story of resilience.
00:00:10 Sue Robinson
Our guest is entrepreneur, Ted X Speaker and author John Samuel.
00:00:15 Sue Robinson
When he was in college, John was diagnosed with a degenerative eye condition called retinitis pigmentosa, which meant.
00:00:22 Sue Robinson
He was going blind with no hope for a cure for the next 17 years, John hid his diagnosis from friends, professors and employers, all the while searching for a sense of belonging in a world where people with disabilities are often left out.
00:00:38 Sue Robinson
John shares his story in his new book entitled Don't Ask The Blind Guy for Directions. A 30,000 mile journey for love, confidence and a sense of belonging.
00:00:48 Sue Robinson
Today John is the co-founder of Abeler, a disability inclusion and accessibility company.
00:00:54 Sue Robinson
He advocates for inclusive workplace cultures accessible.
00:00:58 Sue Robinson
Digital tools and a world where people's differences are turned into opportunities, and John that is a mission that Vanessa and I absolutely share with you. So we are thrilled to have.
00:01:07 Sue Robinson
You here with us today.
00:01:09 Vanessa Alava
Welcome John so excited.
00:01:09 John Samuel
Thank you so much.
00:01:11 John Samuel
Thanks Vanessa.
00:01:13 Sue Robinson
Before we get.
00:01:14 Sue Robinson
Started how can people find you online?
00:01:18 John Samuel
Yeah, I'm quite active on LinkedIn and my my social media handles are at John G. Samuel and of course you can come to our website at ablr360.com where you can learn more about our company abler and I also have my personal website at John G samuel.com. It's lots of ways.
00:01:37 Sue Robinson
Thank you for that.
00:01:39 Sue Robinson
Well, we are excited to dive in with you.
00:01:41 Sue Robinson
You have a very inspiring story and it seems like in in my head we could structure it almost.
00:01:46 Sue Robinson
Like you had this really pivotal time in college and you had a life before that and a life since that.
00:01:52 Sue Robinson
So if you could just sort of walk us through that and what really changed for you and how that has.
00:01:58 Sue Robinson
Shaped your path.
00:02:00 John Samuel
Yeah, so I was growing up in Cary, NC. Which is this like Pleasantville suburb of Raleigh where their?
00:02:07 John Samuel
Lawns are manicured to the perfect height and and is this kind of just really kind of just really great.
00:02:13 John Samuel
Like that was living growing up.
00:02:15 John Samuel
And but as I was going through high school, I started noticing these changes in my eyesight, but I didn't know what was going on.
00:02:21 John Samuel
You know, when I was playing basketball, I missed a pass here and there.
00:02:24 John Samuel
I couldn't see stuff on the chalkboard and.
00:02:27 John Samuel
And but
00:02:28 John Samuel
It really kind of hit me when I was up in College in Richmond, VA and I was walking around an urban campus and bumping into everything and and and my shins were constantly cut up and bruised and.
00:02:39 John Samuel
And I realized I need to get checked out and and that's when I got diagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa.
00:02:44
Was told I.
00:02:45 John Samuel
Was going for long and as a.
00:02:46 John Samuel
Young person it was devastating and I just didn't know how to handle it.
00:02:51 John Samuel
And you know, I I ended up coming back home and finishing up college at NC State University in Raleigh, but I, you know, I really felt like you really couldn't get around if you couldn't drive in North Carolina.
00:03:03 John Samuel
And so I decided I had to get.
00:03:04 John Samuel
Out of here because.
00:03:06 John Samuel
I couldn't get around.
00:03:08 John Samuel
I was driving.
00:03:09 John Samuel
I was scared I was gonna hurt anyone and hence I went out to Bangalore, India for a couple of years because at that time my biggest.
00:03:16 John Samuel
Accessibility challenge was the fact that I could drive and to go to India.
00:03:21 John Samuel
I could get a car and driver.
00:03:23 John Samuel
But no, I was of Indian.
00:03:24 John Samuel
Just I am of Indian descent and.
00:03:27 John Samuel
You know going to India as an Indian American is really challenging culturally and you know here I was dealing with some my visual loss and I'm also dealing with the cultural challenges and I decided it just wasn't the place for me and I moved back home to the US and moved to New York City where you know they had this perfect public transportation.
00:03:48 John Samuel
This new metro or subways, they have taxis.
00:03:51 John Samuel
It was perfect and at the walkable.
00:03:53 John Samuel
But even there, I just didn't find my fitting because I was living paycheck to paycheck and I just.
00:04:00 John Samuel
Didn't see a future.
00:04:02 John Samuel
So that ultimately took me to Africa, where I ended up starting a telecom infrastructure company.
00:04:09 John Samuel
But this whole time I was keeping my vision loss really a secret, and when I was in Africa.
00:04:14 John Samuel
Water safety I didn't want, you know and figure out my own life.
00:04:18 John Samuel
I didn't want anyone to find out.
00:04:20 John Samuel
And but I.
00:04:21 John Samuel
Built A-Team around me and I built the team around based on the kind of core values I needed to keep my secret and.
00:04:29 John Samuel
And that was about the trust and and loyalty. And but that team, we really bound the bound it together and we we had immediate success and we took a $20,000 investment and we generated $12 million in revenue, 2.4 million in profit in just the first year of operation and eventually spread that across the continent. So this was like the first time in my life. I was having professional.
00:04:52 John Samuel
Success and it was something I didn't.
00:04:54 John Samuel
Want to let go of?
00:04:56 John Samuel
But I I I still felt like I was missing something because you know, when I was in in school, I never really did well and I I wanted to go back and I did my MBA at George Washington University and and it was here that really this first time I started talking openly about my vision loss.
00:05:15 John Samuel
And, uh, and that was really like a just amazing experience it.
00:05:19 John Samuel
Was I could.
00:05:20 John Samuel
Talk openly about it and it was like this weight was lifted off my shoulders in my personal life.
00:05:25 John Samuel
And I was able to meet my wife for the in in the program and and that was great, but professionally I was still struggling because I was scared to disclose my disability to enforce because I thought they would see it as a liability and after you know some real soul searching, I found a job.
00:05:44 John Samuel
I landed on my feet.
00:05:45 John Samuel
With a fintech startup that was raising capital for companies in emerging markets, but that company folded after three years?
00:05:53 John Samuel
And how's that of a job again?
00:05:55 John Samuel
And but this time I now had a wife I had?
00:05:57 John Samuel
Baby and I had a house and the stress of it all caused my sight to go.
00:06:01 John Samuel
Even faster and.
00:06:03 John Samuel
The and I and I thought my career was over.
00:06:07 John Samuel
I couldn't see the computer screen and and I really was in a dark place in my life and that's when I heard about this software that was developed at SAS, which is a data science company in Cary, NC.
00:06:18 John Samuel
In my hometown and they had designed this software to help people were blind of their vision and visualize graphs and charts using sounds.
00:06:25 John Samuel
And I thought it was really cool, but the coolest thing about it was it was designed by a gentleman named Ed Summers, who had the same eye condition as me and.
00:06:32 John Samuel
Lived in my hometown and.
00:06:35 John Samuel
In the same place, I never thought anyone.
00:06:36 John Samuel
Blind could ever live.
00:06:37 John Samuel
And up to that point, I had never been a blind person, and I knew I'd get in touch with him.
00:06:43 John Samuel
And I tried for.
00:06:44 John Samuel
Months to get in touch with him.
00:06:46 John Samuel
No luck.
00:06:46 John Samuel
And then finally my wife said if he can live in North Carolina, maybe we can't too.
00:06:50 John Samuel
We found a house online told my folks and they got so excited and never thought coming home.
00:06:54 John Samuel
And my dad immediately jumped in the car to go look at this house and as he's driving, he's talking.
00:06:59 John Samuel
To us and.
00:07:01 John Samuel
All of a sudden you're yawning or something.
00:07:02 John Samuel
I was like what you doing Dad and he's like oh there's a blind guy in the road.
00:07:04 John Samuel
Maybe he's got your training in touch with.
00:07:07 John Samuel
I know Dad please don't help blind people on the road and he said he gets out of the car and walks those poor guy and says are you had summers and the guy says yes I am and my dad put the phone in his ear and.
00:07:20 John Samuel
And after apologizing he agreed to meet me and and he really just changed my life.
00:07:26 John Samuel
He this guy Ed introduced me to the world of accessibility and showed me that my career wasn't over and he eventually introduced me to a company called LCI which was the largest employer people were blind in the country and and that's how I I joined that company.
00:07:41 John Samuel
Start this new business.
00:07:42 John Samuel
Well, they were.
00:07:43 John Samuel
The long story, but uh, we got.
00:07:45 Sue Robinson
Here in full circle story too.
00:07:48 Sue Robinson
Like what an amazing journey to come, full circle and and return to carry and have your next chapter begin in such a positive and and impactful way.
00:07:58 Vanessa Alava
You know what I also think is so interesting.
00:08:00 Vanessa Alava
John is that you got some life altering.
00:08:04 Vanessa Alava
News, I mean that that can shake people where they might become reclusive and be scared.
00:08:11 Vanessa Alava
And even though you were trying to hide it from everyone else.
00:08:14 Vanessa Alava
You went out and did a lot of things that most people with that type of news would not have done.
00:08:21 Vanessa Alava
You went over to India, then you came back to home.
00:08:23 Vanessa Alava
Then you were like you know what I'm gonna go to New York.
00:08:25 Vanessa Alava
And then after New York, I'm gonna go to Africa.
00:08:27 Vanessa Alava
I mean you did a lot during this.
00:08:30 Vanessa Alava
Like really transitional time in your life.
00:08:34 John Samuel
Yeah, yeah, part.
00:08:36 John Samuel
Of it, I think, was almost this race again.
00:08:38 John Samuel
In many ways I knew I'm going blind and I still had that site because, you know, they told me I was going to lose my sight in a couple of years.
00:08:46 John Samuel
And here I was.
00:08:47 John Samuel
I'm living on borrowed time and the more I could get around and the more I could build up my my resume and my experiences.
00:08:56 John Samuel
That's really what I was chasing and in many ways I was still trying to chase.
00:09:00 John Samuel
Financial freedom, like you know I was living paycheck to paycheck in New York and I was going to ask him exactly exactly.
00:09:05 Vanessa Alava
Who isn't though, right?
00:09:08 Sue Robinson
These days a specialist.
00:09:14 John Samuel
And that's really what I was really trying to look for.
00:09:16 John Samuel
I was looking for that kind of that all achieved the goals I had planned for my life before finding out about my vision loss and I was just trying to do it in a very condensed time.
00:09:27 Sue Robinson
You even climbed Mount Kilimanjaro, right?
00:09:31 John Samuel
I did, I did, that was another bucket list item, but it was more about, you know, proving to others that I.
00:09:37 John Samuel
Can do this?
00:09:39 John Samuel
And I think that was something in my.
00:09:42 John Samuel
In my early life, as I was losing my sight, I wasn't comfortable in my own skin, so I was trying to prove to other people I can do these things right, and so you know plenty outcome and drive was one of the most amazing and greatest experience.
00:09:58 John Samuel
Of my life.
00:10:00 John Samuel
But I think it in in some like part.
00:10:02 John Samuel
Of me was it wasn't.
00:10:04 John Samuel
To me it was for it was to prove to other people.
00:10:07 John Samuel
I could do this and but it was actually on that journey where I learned that really kind of.
00:10:13 John Samuel
Copy the phrase in my that I use a lot.
00:10:15 John Samuel
Is proximity builds empathy because the guides on the on the mountain really didn't believe I was going to make it when they found out that I couldn't see because when I told them I can't see, they're like oh you're fine because I didn't look blind whatever that means.
00:10:28 John Samuel
But when we actually gone to mountain.
00:10:30 John Samuel
They said you're not going to make it.
00:10:32 John Samuel
But over the next couple of days, we learned that we're not going to reach the top of the.
00:10:36 John Samuel
Mountain, the way they take most.
00:10:37 John Samuel
People, but we're going to work together and figure out how we're going to do this together, and I think that lesson I learned on the mountain has carried me through my career since then.
00:10:48 Sue Robinson
I think that resilience is.
00:10:51 Sue Robinson
One of the most important qualities that any human can have, right?
00:10:54 Sue Robinson
Because we all face adversity at various points in our lives, some very profound and life altering such as yours and others that just feel really big, even if they don't have as long term impact on us.
00:11:07 Sue Robinson
And so being able to be resilient is really the way to get through that.
00:11:12 Sue Robinson
And I'm just curious.
00:11:14 Sue Robinson
What it is?
00:11:15 Sue Robinson
About you, I know you said you, you did this because you felt like you were on borrowed time and because you were trying to kind of prove things to the people around you.
00:11:22 Sue Robinson
But is there anything else that you would say to people about how to build that kind of resilience before you need?
00:11:28 Sue Robinson
It or where does that come from?
00:11:29 Sue Robinson
How did you?
00:11:30 John Samuel
Get it, I wonder about that.
00:11:32 John Samuel
And I think one of the.
00:11:35 John Samuel
The the things about my childhood was that I had a mom who who instilled a faith in me right, and I think that faith gave me that.
00:11:44 John Samuel
You know that kind of that.
00:11:47 John Samuel
The belief that I can do anything I wanted to right that this is this isn't going to stop me I I can keep going and I think I failed so many times.
00:11:56 John Samuel
That after that first failure you bounced back.
00:11:59 John Samuel
You're like, oh, I feel like that's not the end of it and I think you know some people take pride in never feeling.
00:12:05 John Samuel
I think I take pride in failing a lot because it taught me how to bounce back each time and and and be stronger than next time.
00:12:14 Vanessa Alava
So yeah, absolutely John.
00:12:17 Vanessa Alava
I mean, you've had an amazing life thus far.
00:12:20 Vanessa Alava
I mean, it's it's, you know.
00:12:22 Vanessa Alava
Just listening to it.
00:12:23 Vanessa Alava
I mean, I almost see like a movie going through my head, but can you talk about?
00:12:30 Vanessa Alava
The the experience of relearning things in this new world because again you have a very unique perspective of where you had vision and then you you don't now.
00:12:41 Vanessa Alava
So there are a lot of things that you had to relearn that were part of your everyday.
00:12:45 Vanessa Alava
So can you kind of go into that and I'm sure that will lean into.
00:12:48 Vanessa Alava
The accessibility.
00:12:51 Vanessa Alava
Technology that you've learned about along the way as well and that you consult people on.
00:12:56 John Samuel
Yeah, I mean really kind of growing up.
00:12:59 John Samuel
I never knew anyone who was blind.
00:13:01 John Samuel
I didn't.
00:13:01 John Samuel
Know anyone with a disability?
00:13:03 John Samuel
So I just couldn't.
00:13:05 John Samuel
I couldn't fathom I couldn't understand.
00:13:06 John Samuel
How could someone?
00:13:07 John Samuel
Who's blind do this?
00:13:09 John Samuel
Because I can barely do it.
00:13:11 John Samuel
With my sight.
00:13:12 John Samuel
So how could someone not with no site be able to do this?
00:13:15 John Samuel
And I think that when you have that mentality it holds you back.
00:13:19 John Samuel
And so I was relying on my link.
00:13:21 John Samuel
My eyesight, which is my weakest asset for way too long, right?
00:13:26 John Samuel
You're holding on to it.
00:13:27 John Samuel
Hold on to it and and it really just.
00:13:29 John Samuel
Kind of it.
00:13:30 John Samuel
It it started causing me pain like just my body wasn't aching all the time like I would have back pain leg pains like I couldn't sleep.
00:13:39 John Samuel
It it was just it was.
00:13:41 John Samuel
It was this strain that was coming from using the my eyes to do things and.
00:13:45 John Samuel
And so you.
00:13:46 John Samuel
Know because I didn't want to.
00:13:48 John Samuel
I didn't want to learn as someone who's blind because that wasn't my identity.
00:13:51 John Samuel
I wasn't a blind person and and it really took me meeting that guy at summers to really meet someone who was driving us who was blind.
00:14:01 John Samuel
And when I saw started seeing him.
00:14:02 John Samuel
How he was using.
00:14:03 John Samuel
His phone and how he was listening to it so fast and was able to.
00:14:06 John Samuel
Send emails and.
00:14:08 John Samuel
And text messages.
00:14:09 John Samuel
Things that I struggle to do and he was doing it with ease.
00:14:13 John Samuel
I was like.
00:14:14 John Samuel
Oh my gosh, this is something that.
00:14:17 John Samuel
I can do.
00:14:17 John Samuel
I mean it's doable.
00:14:19 John Samuel
And and I and and he gave me a piece of advice.
00:14:22 John Samuel
He said if you want to continue your career trajectory, you're going to have to learn to learn to be blind.
00:14:29 John Samuel
And I started thinking about Oh my gosh, what does that mean?
00:14:32 John Samuel
And hence I remember him listening to his phone so fast and the reason he was doing it is that as fast as you can see a computer.
00:14:40 John Samuel
Screen or a phone?
00:14:42 John Samuel
We need to be able to listen or intake that information however we can, and that's through down, so there's a screen meter which by using your finger and you, you scroll around the screen.
00:14:53 John Samuel
It'll read about what you're touching, and so that's how he was using his phone, and I went back home and and it took his words to like.
00:15:02 John Samuel
And I started to really just learn how to listen faster 1st and so I started listening to audiobooks faster, faster, faster and and so the time I got to that speed of like really being able to listen so fast.
00:15:17 John Samuel
Then I started learning how to use the phone that keeps using the gestures and the shortcut keys on the computer.
00:15:22 John Samuel
And once I learned how to use my computer and I saw how much faster I was and I saw how I was able to do everything I was able to do before, and even better, that opened me up to being more open about learning everything else.
00:15:37 John Samuel
Learn a lesson about.
00:15:38 John Samuel
Black, right? It's like.
00:15:41 John Samuel
By learning these tricks and techniques, it's going to help me and I'm going to figure out how to maybe not live the life that I had before, but live a life by going to tomorrow in a different way, right?
00:15:52 John Samuel
And so, you know, learning how to navigate the my house or picking up food, or you know.
00:16:00 John Samuel
All these different things, right? Like you know how I how I use a microwave. I now have bumps on it so I may not be able to put in 2 minutes. I have to push the 32nd button which.
00:16:10 John Samuel
The bump four times that's OK, but I'm learning how to.
00:16:14 John Samuel
You know you have to get over that mindset of being like I can't do it.
00:16:18 John Samuel
I can, and I've seen how I can even be faster. You know, maybe pushing the the the 32nd button four times is even more efficient. So but I'm learning that and it's and every day. It's a it's a way of adapting.
00:16:32 John Samuel
It's been a it's been great and it was tough in the beginning, but now it's just.
00:16:36 John Samuel
I just want to share with other people because you know, even sighted people may be able to benefit from these techniques.
00:16:42 Vanessa Alava
Absolutely 100%.
00:16:43 Sue Robinson
Like you touch on a couple of things that are threads that I want to tie together because I think they're really important.
00:16:51 Sue Robinson
This is our fourth season of this podcast and our focus is really on NPR.
00:16:54 Sue Robinson
Housing conversations around inclusion for people with disabilities and you mentioned in the beginning that one of your biggest fears when you first started to lose your vision was how employers would view your disability as a liability and how that could impact your future in very profound ways.
00:17:15 Sue Robinson
And yet you've also just described to us how adaptable, how versatile, what a problem solver you have learned to be beyond perhaps what you ever would have if you had retained your visa.
00:17:27 Sue Robinson
And in today's workforce, that type of adaptability that type of teachability, nimble mindedness, problem solving.
00:17:36 Sue Robinson
Are all incredibly.
00:17:37 Sue Robinson
Important skills, particularly in a fast changing digital world.
00:17:44 Sue Robinson
So could you talk about how people with disabilities who have really honed those skills?
00:17:49 Sue Robinson
Actually bring something extra to the table for their employer.
00:17:54 John Samuel
Yeah, I mean I I often talk about how the same thing you just mentioned.
00:17:58 John Samuel
Like me who doesn't want a problem solver on your team.
00:18:00 John Samuel
And if you want a problem.
00:18:01 John Samuel
Solver you gotta go to people with disability.
00:18:03 John Samuel
Because, you know?
00:18:04 John Samuel
As somebody who who who doesn't have a visual impairment, you know you can see you see a way.
00:18:10 John Samuel
This is the direct route from A to B but myself.
00:18:14 John Samuel
I have to figure out different routes and I think that.
00:18:16 John Samuel
You know, having people with disabilities at the table on the team providing input, you know it gets out of that group thing.
00:18:25 John Samuel
Right, and I think that's something that a lot of people get caught up in right?
00:18:29 John Samuel
It's like that they you see, oh, that's the only solution.
00:18:32 John Samuel
But people with disabilities we have to figure out different solutions and and often those solutions can be, you know, accidental in in some ways to benefit everybody and something we talk a lot about is how.
00:18:44 John Samuel
You know you, you talk about certain products like the the telephone, you know, I know there's multiple stories about who actually invented it before we talked about Bell, and you know he created it and he actually created it for the deaf community to be able to.
00:18:57 John Samuel
Indicate but then I know there's an Italian inventor who actually maybe getting credit for it now.
00:19:02 John Samuel
He was actually he created the telephone because his wife was had a mobility disability, was up in her room upstairs and he created this stone and so I think that when you start to think about solutions and including people in the design process, you can really get some really innovative solution.
00:19:18 John Samuel
And so I think, you know, get out of the group thing.
00:19:21 John Samuel
Get innovative.
00:19:22 John Samuel
The solution, and I think that kind of the the the.
00:19:26 John Samuel
Pieces I think we have people you know who are different than you and a group you know.
00:19:31 John Samuel
A diverse community.
00:19:32 John Samuel
I think you can actually.
00:19:33 John Samuel
Be you have.
00:19:34 John Samuel
A happier feeling of getting to understand this new level of empathy, and I think all those three things really benefit having disabilities at the table and.
00:19:46 John Samuel
When creating these type of innovative solutions.
00:19:50 Vanessa Alava
Absolutely, and let's talk also about how you know not just employers, but in general human beings how we can be more aware and sensitive.
00:20:01 Vanessa Alava
Uh, to people with disabilities.
00:20:04 Vanessa Alava
You know overall, like and some of these disabilities.
00:20:08 Vanessa Alava
As your own are are hidden right like you don't know, just coming up to Someone Like You or someone who's hard of hearing or deaf those.
00:20:17 Vanessa Alava
Just there's not that you know.
00:20:20 Vanessa Alava
Physical thing where you're like OK, I'm going to need to alter to, you know, help this help myself communicate with this person.
00:20:27 Vanessa Alava
So what what can we do as humans to be just more?
00:20:31 Vanessa Alava
Aware and I I wanna say present but you know it's not even that.
00:20:35 Vanessa Alava
It's just being more in tune with what's going on around us in our environment.
00:20:39 John Samuel
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:20:41 John Samuel
I think you know the first thing.
00:20:43 John Samuel
Remember, we're all people first, right?
00:20:46 John Samuel
We all as people.
00:20:47 John Samuel
We want to be treated with dignity.
00:20:48 John Samuel
We want to be treated, you know, in a.
00:20:51 John Samuel
In just a respectful manner, and I think you know when you meet people with disabilities and I can only speak about my own experience because I know everyone has their own thoughts about this and at least from my perspective, you know individuals.
00:21:06 John Samuel
Even just having those conversations goes back to that proximity build empathy.
00:21:10 John Samuel
It's having this conversation just like this.
00:21:12 John Samuel
You asking me and talking about this.
00:21:14 John Samuel
It's like you get a new level of empathy.
00:21:17 John Samuel
You get the exposure to understanding the needs and experiences I want.
00:21:21 John Samuel
And you know Vanessa, you and I got an opportunity to hang out recently and you know you get to see how I navigate the room a little bit better.
00:21:28 John Samuel
You know, you get to see how you know how I write or how I do certain things.
00:21:32 John Samuel
And having that exposure will then benefit.
00:21:35 John Samuel
It the next time you meet someone, you can ask questions like oh, would you like me to grab?
00:21:39 John Samuel
You know, would you like me to give you an elbow so you can walk around but you would never know that unless you have time to spend with someone you know?
00:21:46 John Samuel
And so I think that goes back to spending more time sharing stories and experiences, and you know, and asking questions.
00:21:54 John Samuel
But asking questions in a respectful.
00:21:56 John Samuel
Manner right and when you come at it from a.
00:22:01 John Samuel
And I would need or want to learn that comes across as really genuine and and and you build a sense of belonging and you and individual would be more open about talking about it.
00:22:12 John Samuel
And I think that's what it is.
00:22:13 John Samuel
Just remember that people are people first.
00:22:15 John Samuel
And and just be respectful and be, you know, be curious and ask and ask questions, but in.
00:22:22 John Samuel
A respectful manner.
00:22:24 Sue Robinson
I'd like to ask you a little bit about Abler, the company that you started and some of the things that that you offer and also.
00:22:33 Sue Robinson
Are there technologies in?
00:22:36 Sue Robinson
The disability or in the accessibility space.
00:22:39 Sue Robinson
That are really.
00:22:40 Sue Robinson
Cutting edge at a really innovative that you are excited about.
00:22:45 John Samuel
Yeah, so at at Embler we offer really 3.
00:22:50 John Samuel
Lines of business.
00:22:52 John Samuel
The first is what we call limiting the digital divide.
00:22:56 John Samuel
We're doing this through our digital accessibility services.
00:22:59 John Samuel
This is where we are going through and helping organizations make sure that their websites digital content and you know, user experiences are accessible and usable for people with disabilities.
00:23:13 John Samuel
And so that's like our we're one of our core business lines.
00:23:16 John Samuel
That's where we really where we started our business from.
00:23:20 John Samuel
And this really came from the fact that when I was even applying for jobs, I couldn't apply to many jobs because their websites just weren't accessible.
00:23:28 John Samuel
And so I knew we needed to remove that barrier and that's our first pillar.
00:23:34 John Samuel
The second pillar is changing the mindsets of people and organization, and we're doing this through our disability inclusion training modules.
00:23:43 John Samuel
And educating people and even sharing stories like that and participating on today's podcast with you all.
00:23:49 John Samuel
And, you know, doing speeches, it's really about changing that mindset that people have.
00:23:55 John Samuel
And then the final pillar of our business is.
00:23:59 John Samuel
Creating pathways for employment.
00:24:01 John Samuel
And that's what we're doing through our workforce development program, where we're training individuals to get job ready and prepare for the workforce.
00:24:10 John Samuel
And so that's what I'm super passionate about and excited about from an ABA perspective, because we're we're currently in our first cohort with the state of North Carolina.
00:24:19 John Samuel
Training individuals to become digital accessibility.
00:24:22 John Samuel
Testers because we know that these are roles that are needed out there in the market and these you really, you know people who are blind.
00:24:30 John Samuel
They bring a unique perspective to the role because they have lived experiences and you can't teach that, and so if they can bring that to the table as employees, it's super exciting.
00:24:40 John Samuel
But out in the like accessibility world, there's some really cool things that are happening.
00:24:46 John Samuel
From technology like AI, you know a lot of people have been using these overlay websites recently.
00:24:53 John Samuel
Those aren't the way of using AI to help accessibility because these overlays are really causing a lot of trouble.
00:25:00 John Samuel
They're not actually working and you know.
00:25:03 John Samuel
When you think about.
00:25:03 John Samuel
Accessibility you actually need to be.
00:25:06 John Samuel
Using people it's about user experiences, so you know when I talk about AI.
00:25:11 John Samuel
I'm not talking at those overlays.
00:25:13 John Samuel
What I'm talking about is the way that we're using AI for machine learning and identifying, you know, images, reading text and and some of these things are.
00:25:22 John Samuel
Really cool because.
00:25:23 John Samuel
Because I was able to go to.
00:25:27 John Samuel
A restaurant and be able to use an app and read it by myself without having to rely on my wife.
00:25:33 John Samuel
That's really cool, you know.
00:25:35 John Samuel
And then there's also these new wayfinding applications.
00:25:37 John Samuel
There's a company called Lazarillo which I'm just super excited about.
00:25:40 John Samuel
They have a way of finding application that allows people to navigate in streets.
00:25:46 John Samuel
Like Google Maps but also inside buildings and this gives.
00:25:52 John Samuel
And then you know, I, I think about all these new technologies and the XR and AR and ways that are helping to bring independence for individuals.
00:26:01 John Samuel
That's what I think is really cool, so I think it's the tools that we're now creating that are helping us to be more independent and what we're seeing is that these tools not only.
00:26:11 John Samuel
To help people who are blind or with disabilities, but it's actually helping all people, which is super cool.
00:26:18 Vanessa Alava
And it correct me if I'm wrong John, but it sounds like in this natural right that the technology field leans itself more to accessibility just because they're they're forward thinkers they're wanting to go as far as their reach as possible, right?
00:26:39 Vanessa Alava
And and it's it's been that way for AW.
00:26:40 Vanessa Alava
E-mail what can employers do and maybe it starts in HR. I I I don't know but is it? Is it something that where you have a small business and you may not be 100% technology or defined as a technology company?
00:26:56 Vanessa Alava
But how do you bring that up to your?
00:26:59 Vanessa Alava
You know higher ups and say hey we want more.
00:27:01 Vanessa Alava
Diverse pool of people you know we want to be able to.
00:27:06 Vanessa Alava
Put these things in play where people of all abilities can apply to the jobs that we're putting out what?
00:27:12 Vanessa Alava
What are some of those steps that someone can go out and do something a little different than they're accustomed to, and that's outside of their quote, UN quote comfort zone when they're not part of that technology world because I think there's a little bit of a divide.
00:27:25 John Samuel
Yes, you know we're seeing that from companies doing these employee journey mapping, right?
00:27:34 John Samuel
So looking at from your application process.
00:27:37 John Samuel
To looking at it from a.
00:27:41 John Samuel
Your onboarding, your interviews, you know, style.
00:27:45 John Samuel
How are you doing this?
00:27:46 John Samuel
Because if you think about individuals with disabilities applying for jobs, there's.
00:27:52 John Samuel
A lot of.
00:27:55 John Samuel
Roadblocks, potential, or barriers that could stop individuals, whether it be you know, one application not being accessible to being, you know the interview process not providing enough time for individuals.
00:28:06 John Samuel
These are reasonable accommodations, and one of the things that we need to be able to do is ask people what they need and and.
00:28:12 John Samuel
Say these are the services we provide.
00:28:14 John Samuel
Because you know it, it is tough individuals.
00:28:17 John Samuel
Are worried about.
00:28:20 John Samuel
Sometimes like myself, I didn't want to ask for accommodation because I didn't want people to know that I couldn't see, and so it's one of those things that we have to change the mindset and and start to communicate.
00:28:30 John Samuel
So companies need to communicate and say look we are, you know we want to.
00:28:34 John Samuel
Create the most.
00:28:36 John Samuel
Inclusive experience for people.
00:28:38 John Samuel
How can we?
00:28:38 John Samuel
Do to improve that.
00:28:40 John Samuel
And so that's one of the things that we're.
00:28:41 John Samuel
I think we can create.
00:28:43 John Samuel
You know that, uh?
00:28:44 John Samuel
That at least open the door for people.
00:28:47 John Samuel
And then from a job perspective, actual jobs.
00:28:49 John Samuel
You know we're now seeing that it's some slight adaptations can help people to do any jobs, right?
00:28:54 John Samuel
We're that's our goal is that any job that somebody who's blind wants to do, or somebody with disability wants to do.
00:28:59 John Samuel
We can make reasonable accommodations and adaptations to to to do that, and that's what we're working towards, right?
00:29:07 John Samuel
I don't want anyone to ever be.
00:29:10 John Samuel
Feel that the pigeonhole that my only career option is this and that really came.
00:29:14 Vanessa Alava
Right?
00:29:15 John Samuel
You know, that's like like if I want to have a meaningful call, I have to go and access with or when I was starting building up this business, I remember seeing this article about this young lady who was in college and she had gotten all these these scholarships.
00:29:29 John Samuel
She was blind and and I was like.
00:29:30 John Samuel
I wanted to meet her and I I talked to her and I asked what are you going to do and she's like I'm going to be a lawyer.
00:29:35 John Samuel
And I said why you gonna be a lawyer?
00:29:37 John Samuel
She's like, oh that's who I saw this blind person who was a lawyer came to my school and he spoke.
00:29:42 John Samuel
And I thought that.
00:29:43 John Samuel
Was cool, but that's like that's what she thought was only route that smart people who were blind and become lawyers.
00:29:49 John Samuel
But I ask, why don't you want to do business schools?
00:29:51 John Samuel
I don't think.
00:29:52 John Samuel
People were blinking business.
00:29:53 John Samuel
School that's right, like.
00:29:55 John Samuel
She just didn't know what she didn't know.
00:29:56 John Samuel
And that's something.
00:29:57 John Samuel
We have to do is not only change the mindsets of employers, but also change the mindsets of individuals.
00:30:04 John Samuel
And because it's a two way St.
00:30:06 John Samuel
So individuals because like we need to get the job skills to be able.
00:30:06 Vanessa Alava
Right?
00:30:09 John Samuel
To do the jobs we want.
00:30:11 John Samuel
And so even if company.
00:30:12 John Samuel
That's why I often talk about the supply and demand, so some of the things we were just talking about, like making sure that the job process is is inclusive and accessible.
00:30:21 John Samuel
You know that's helping to build the demand, yeah, but we need to build up the supply and that's where we have to change.
00:30:26 John Samuel
Like get people trained up into the different opportunities and so.
00:30:27 Vanessa Alava
Right, right?
00:30:31 John Samuel
And that's something we're actually working with.
00:30:33 John Samuel
The community colleges right now also is to see how can we get people into these roles.
00:30:37 John Samuel
And and that comes it, it's going to come over time, but I think that's something companies need to to even change their rent.
00:30:44 John Samuel
Like their, uh, their job descriptions to really kind of say what is actually necessary versus.
00:30:51 John Samuel
You know what's necessary versus what, just like what? Do we just have boilerplate information, right? Does this job really need a like a driver's?
00:31:01 John Samuel
Maybe not right, but we have to figure that out and I think that if you have more people at the table with disabilities you know talking about the different roles and sharing.
00:31:11 John Samuel
Into I think that's what we'll we'll.
00:31:12 John Samuel
We'll we can get more people into different jobs.
00:31:15 John Samuel
I know I talked a.
00:31:15
And it's.
00:31:16 John Samuel
Lot about that.
00:31:17 Sue Robinson
No, no, those are such great insights and you know when you talk about the ability for one to perceive oneself doing a job that.
00:31:28 Sue Robinson
They don't innately think they're qualified for it crosses so many different demographics.
00:31:34 Sue Robinson
Certainly people with disabilities like the young lady you were just describing who had only ever encountered a a lawyer who was blind, so she thought that was kind of the only direction she could go in.
00:31:43 Sue Robinson
But we also started out as a podcast focused on women and girls in science.
00:31:48 Sue Robinson
Technology, engineering, math and the arts and you know, so often women don't think of themselves or young girls.
00:31:55 Sue Robinson
Don't think of themselves as being able to go into.
00:31:57 Sue Robinson
Those technical fields.
00:32:00 Sue Robinson
You know there's just so many different demographics where I think one of the biggest barriers is our own heads.
00:32:05 Sue Robinson
It's what's our, what our own thoughts and perceptions are, and that's why it's so important for the communities around us to support those narratives about.
00:32:13 Sue Robinson
Yes, you can do this, yes, explore outside the boundaries.
00:32:16 Sue Robinson
Think differently.
00:32:17 Sue Robinson
You can go into these professions and bring real value.
00:32:21 Sue Robinson
That that just lifts everybody up.
00:32:23 Vanessa Alava
Well, that goes into like intersectionality, right?
00:32:25 Vanessa Alava
It's not just, it's not just OK.
00:32:28 Vanessa Alava
Male female.
00:32:30 Vanessa Alava
You know people of all abilities right is included in all of it.
00:32:34 Vanessa Alava
And also you know the demographic like the demographics where you're coming from, what your nationality is, what your culture is like, is all of these things that build upon.
00:32:43 Vanessa Alava
Those things, and yeah, if you're not used to seeing or hearing people from your work.
00:32:49 Vanessa Alava
And that's your intersectionality world, right?
00:32:53 John Samuel
Yeah, yeah exactly.
00:32:53 Vanessa Alava
It's it's hard.
00:32:54 Vanessa Alava
It's hard to imagine yourself in in those positions.
00:32:58 Vanessa Alava
And you also, John, and soon I talk about this all the time.
00:33:01 Vanessa Alava
Communication communication is so key in language and as much as you know we want to be able to ask questions.
00:33:08 Vanessa Alava
And I think, well, we've talked about this too.
00:33:11 Vanessa Alava
Sue on our podcast about being cancelled so many people are scared about saying the wrong thing or not saying something in.
00:33:18 Vanessa Alava
The correct way.
00:33:19 Vanessa Alava
Or asking something that's going to be super offensive.
00:33:22 Vanessa Alava
That's going to blackball them basically.
00:33:25 Vanessa Alava
So how?
00:33:26 Vanessa Alava
How do you merge all this?
00:33:29 Vanessa Alava
Because it's all great and it's all great intent and it's all really great information.
00:33:32 Vanessa Alava
But there is that fear out there that I'm going to say something.
00:33:35 Vanessa Alava
I'm going to ask a question that people are really just going to say ohh Nope, not I don't wanna associate myself with that person and it could be coming from like a very genuine place.
00:33:45 John Samuel
Yeah yeah, I had an example of this.
00:33:48 John Samuel
A few years ago I was participating in a program called Leadership Rally where it would take 40 young leaders in the community and get to know the city of Raleigh and it's a I think it's like a.
00:34:00 John Samuel
12 month program.
00:34:02 John Samuel
And there was a gentleman in my program.
00:34:04 John Samuel
There's one of 40 people and 10 months in I was I got an award.
00:34:09 John Samuel
And he you know he that was the first time, he he he wanted to talk to me about it, and he he reached out to me.
00:34:16 John Samuel
And he said, hey, I'm so sorry.
00:34:17 John Samuel
I haven't talked to you the last 10 months.
00:34:21 John Samuel
Because he said.
00:34:21 John Samuel
I was just scared about saying the.
00:34:23 John Samuel
Wrong thing to you.
00:34:24 John Samuel
Right and.
00:34:26 John Samuel
And it was almost, and he came out of this this place this genuine place, right?
00:34:30 John Samuel
He really was just scared he didn't know what to say.
00:34:31 John Samuel
He didn't want to offend me.
00:34:33 John Samuel
And we you know we lost ten months of a potential relationship and he and I are now really great friends.
00:34:39 John Samuel
But for 10 months he.
00:34:40 John Samuel
Was just so.
00:34:41 John Samuel
Scared and so that kind of got me thinking.
00:34:44 John Samuel
It's like what can we do?
00:34:45 John Samuel
Also I need to be able to create.
00:34:47 John Samuel
It's not, it doesn't.
00:34:47 John Samuel
It's not only on me, but it's on.
00:34:49 John Samuel
You know you have to.
00:34:50 John Samuel
Change the culture.
00:34:52 John Samuel
But I sort of think about what can I do to help make you know the discussion a little bit.
00:34:57 John Samuel
And because like I noticed with my white cane, when I go into networking events, people just wouldn't talk to me.
00:35:03 John Samuel
It was almost like this white cane. I thought once I started carrying a white cane, people be like Oh my gosh, the reason this person's not making eye contact me is that he can't see me.
00:35:13 John Samuel
The reason that he's not shaking my hand is not because.
00:35:15 John Samuel
He's a jerk.
00:35:15 John Samuel
He just can't see me.
00:35:17 John Samuel
But when I started using this cane, it was almost like people were just so scared by this cane and they were they were they kept the distance from me.
00:35:25 John Samuel
And I'd be at these never convinced on that.
00:35:26 John Samuel
Oh my gosh, but my colleagues who had Guide Dogs they didn't have the same issue.
00:35:30 John Samuel
People come up and talk to the dog.
00:35:32 John Samuel
Even though the dog's working, they could all relate to the dog.
00:35:36 John Samuel
And so I.
00:35:36 John Samuel
Started thinking about what can I do to make.
00:35:38 John Samuel
My cane more.
00:35:41 John Samuel
You know, approachable.
00:35:42 John Samuel
And I don't know if you remember an old TV show called Pimp My ride on MTV.
00:35:47 John Samuel
I I like the idea of that, but what I want to do is I wanted to pimp my.
00:35:52 John Samuel
And so if I could tip my cane that way, you know could be bring people to talking points and and it goes back to the.
00:35:59 John Samuel
Arts and design.
00:36:00 John Samuel
So what I did was that we actually created a design competition and we had designers from all over the world and we called it drip my cane and folks started designing my cane and now when I come in.
00:36:12 John Samuel
You know the cane is uniquely designed.
00:36:14 John Samuel
People are talking about it and I don't want a podcast, but I'm wearing a watch that is a fully tactile, universally designed watch.
00:36:21 John Samuel
This watch also is one of those things that kind of brings people to.
00:36:25 John Samuel
Come talk to me.
00:36:26 John Samuel
It's like it's just what I'm realizing.
00:36:28 John Samuel
That you know art and design that is accessible and usable and you know really helping me do things that I need to.
00:36:36 John Samuel
There are now being things that are drawing conversations and I I think that once you have that initial conversation, like Oh my gosh that's such a cool watch or that's such a can you tell me about your cane?
00:36:47 John Samuel
We're now having real conversations and it's not about the cane and me being blind.
00:36:51 John Samuel
It's about people, art and design, and I think that's something.
00:36:55 John Samuel
That's really special.
00:36:56 John Samuel
So again, I don't have a magic, you know, the the silver bullet for for how do we change the kind of this this kind of?
00:37:04 John Samuel
This barrier of people saying the wrong thing, but my hope what I'm using is art and design to to break down the barriers.
00:37:12 Sue Robinson
Love that I love that I really think that's so smart and just making making it a comfortable and approachable.
00:37:19 Sue Robinson
Because that's what.
00:37:19
That's correct.
00:37:19 Sue Robinson
I probably that's why people feel more comfortable talking to a blind person with a with a dog is because animals just bring people together right?
00:37:29 Sue Robinson
And they take away that sort of defensiveness.
00:37:29 John Samuel
That's correct.
00:37:31 Sue Robinson
And so to be able to do that using art and design is wonderful because I do think we live in a culture now where we kind of default to.
00:37:38 Sue Robinson
Being offended and we have to.
00:37:41 Sue Robinson
Yeah, you know, the different conversation altogether.
00:37:43 Sue Robinson
Vanessa and.
00:37:43 Sue Robinson
I have that conversation.
00:37:44 Sue Robinson
Frequently, but I I think it's something that is to all of our detriment so.
00:37:49 John Samuel
Yeah, I mean, I think that at least in my perspective, art and design, it's like it's something that we can.
00:37:55 John Samuel
All relate to right?
00:37:56 John Samuel
It's it's every aspect of our life and and when we can start to think about universal design, things that are designed for every.
00:38:02 John Samuel
In mind.
00:38:03 John Samuel
That's such a it's universal design is such a great.
00:38:08 John Samuel
It's a let's talk.
00:38:09 John Samuel
We're in a safe environment we can all talk about how are you engaging with this product or this design?
00:38:13 John Samuel
How am I engaging with it?
00:38:15 John Samuel
And then you see there's more commonality between us than there are differences, but there are differences and those are significant differences.
00:38:21 John Samuel
But at least we can find some commonality there and it's.
00:38:24 John Samuel
All about creating those safe spaces.
00:38:26 Vanessa Alava
I was going to say I love that you said safe environments and safe spaces because I think maybe that's what it is.
00:38:31 Vanessa Alava
It's like.
00:38:32 Vanessa Alava
Can we create a safe space so that we can have like I can ask questions and you can ask questions and we can just like be you know, transparent and open with each other and know that I'm gonna fumble because I'm human right?
00:38:44 Vanessa Alava
Like know that like this isn't something that I'm used to and then just.
00:38:47 Vanessa Alava
In humor, right?
00:38:49 Vanessa Alava
Like humor also, just you know, I think just grounds.
00:38:52 Vanessa Alava
People a little bit.
00:38:53 John Samuel
Mm-hmm yeah for sure.
00:38:55 John Samuel
I mean that that goes back to proximity.
00:38:57 John Samuel
Those empathy and it's so funny because I I started to use this chair.
00:39:01 John Samuel
The story about drip, my cane and pinned my.
00:39:04 John Samuel
I at the beginning of my speeches, because, oh, I try to add something in my speeches at the beginning to break down, have people laugh, right?
00:39:13 John Samuel
We we can break down if we can start a conversation with laughter.
00:39:16 John Samuel
Everything else is going to be better, right, right, so and so and then also finding those like things that we can relate on is laughter relatability
00:39:26 John Samuel
And there's so much that this goes into a really interesting conversation.
00:39:29 John Samuel
But it's, uh.
00:39:30 John Samuel
You know, I find that.
00:39:32 John Samuel
It goes back to.
00:39:33 John Samuel
We're all human.
00:39:34 John Samuel
First, you know I was talking about how people with disabilities are human.
00:39:36 John Samuel
First, even people without disabilities are given 1st, and they too may make some, you know, mistakes and we.
00:39:44 John Samuel
Need to have that.
00:39:45 John Samuel
That, given that agency to do that?
00:39:48 Vanessa Alava
Absolutely, I actually.
00:39:49 Vanessa Alava
I remember meeting your wife recently at your oh and we want to touch on your book.
00:39:53 Vanessa Alava
This is a nice segment, right?
00:39:55 Vanessa Alava
Segue nice segue.
00:39:55
Good to the book.
00:39:57 Vanessa Alava
John recently had this awesome book party that he invited us to, and I was able to hang out with John and.
00:40:02 Vanessa Alava
Meet his lovely wife.
00:40:04 Vanessa Alava
And she she kind of said, you know, this book is very personal.
00:40:08 Vanessa Alava
There's a lot of like us in there, and I was like, you know, that's what people want.
00:40:14 Vanessa Alava
That's what they want to hear, because the minute that they can connect and relate to something, you've got them.
00:40:20 Vanessa Alava
You've got their attention and you know she's like.
00:40:24 Vanessa Alava
You know, I.
00:40:25 Vanessa Alava
I've heard that from a few people that makes me feel really good that I'm hearing it again, you know, but all that to say, 100% agree with you and please do tell us about this book journey and and you know.
00:40:38 Vanessa Alava
Don't ask a blind man for directions, yeah.
00:40:40 Sue Robinson
So I just have to say we love a cheeky title.
00:40:42 Sue Robinson
As our listeners.
00:40:43 Sue Robinson
Know, and that is a great title and it's a great use of humor to break.
00:40:47 Sue Robinson
Down those barriers.
00:40:49 John Samuel
Exactly, well, you know.
00:40:51 John Samuel
I started to realize that one way I am, you know, educating like breaking down those barriers and educating folks is through my storytelling and participating in podcasts like this, right?
00:41:01 John Samuel
This is great.
00:41:02 John Samuel
You and I we're all having this conversation.
00:41:05 John Samuel
Others are listening.
00:41:06 John Samuel
But you know the people listen and learn different ways and.
00:41:09 John Samuel
And then I realized that, you know, I I wanted to create this write.
00:41:13 John Samuel
A book that would.
00:41:15 John Samuel
Be able to share my story and also educate people about you.
00:41:20 John Samuel
Know statistics and information, the the facts that you know, kind of you know.
00:41:25 John Samuel
Tell a story.
00:41:27 John Samuel
Incorporating them together with my personal life and yeah, and so you know it's and it's a journey you know as I shared before, it's like you know, running away.
00:41:36 John Samuel
Finding this kind of, you know, finding and understanding my my blindness and coming to grips with it and then finding you know a career app.
00:41:44 John Samuel
Words and I think that you know the subtitle of, you know 30,000 mile journey for love, confidence, and a sense of belonging.
00:41:51 John Samuel
You know love, confidence and since belonging goes back to relatability, we all are looking for that right?
00:41:57 John Samuel
We all want to find love.
00:41:58 John Samuel
We all want to be confident.
00:42:00 John Samuel
And we all want to feel like we belong.
00:42:02 John Samuel
And so again goes back to relatability.
00:42:04 John Samuel
We start off with like humor with the don't ask me again for directions.
00:42:07 John Samuel
And then come back to the relatability.
00:42:09 John Samuel
But you know the story in.
00:42:11 John Samuel
In this whole book process, has been a really.
00:42:14 John Samuel
It it is a it's like my wife said it's very personal.
00:42:18 John Samuel
You're putting out a lot.
00:42:19 John Samuel
You're much more.
00:42:20 John Samuel
I'm putting out the like being very vulnerable because when I because when I share my story, people here you hear the highlights you don't hear about the times when girls left me.
00:42:22 Vanessa Alava
Very vulnerable.
00:42:32 John Samuel
Because I couldn't see or the reason I break up with the girl because I was scared to disclose it could drive, right?
00:42:39 John Samuel
I'd rather break someone's heart or break my heart rather than being honest, right? And and these are things that are going through. These are real challenges of people.
00:42:50 John Samuel
And many people are going through and so I I hope it gives a a glimpse into the life and experiences of people with disabilities.
00:42:57 John Samuel
And I know that my journey does come from a life of there is a privilege.
00:43:02 John Samuel
I do have privilege, you know.
00:43:04 John Samuel
Not everybody has the ability to, you know, move out to a foreign country or have.
00:43:10 John Samuel
You know, and I think that really came from the kind of the faith that I had, that things would be OK, but also having.
00:43:18 John Samuel
A A kind of a fall back net of having really loving parents and parents who were supportive of me.
00:43:26 John Samuel
And even though they had a hard time of accepting my disability, I knew at the end of the day it was there was an underlying love that they had for me, and but it's that which allowed me to take this kind of this journey around the world.
00:43:39 John Samuel
And uh, and I found.
00:43:40 John Samuel
Everything I was looking for, which is super cool.
00:43:43 Sue Robinson
It's a wonderful wonderful.
00:43:44 Sue Robinson
Story and I know we're coming up on our time here, but I just.
00:43:47 Sue Robinson
Think you know you don't have to have a disability to appreciate a book like yours because it's difficult for all of us to be vulnerable and to admit the time that.
00:43:57 Sue Robinson
We had our heart broken or we had to hide something that we weren't ready to share with the people around us.
00:44:02 Sue Robinson
Or I mean everybody goes through that.
00:44:04 Sue Robinson
And when you Share your story from your perspective, it gives other people the confidence to say I'm not alone, so it just lifts everybody.
00:44:12 Sue Robinson
I can check that.
00:44:14 Sue Robinson
So thank you for doing that.
00:44:15 Sue Robinson
And where can folks?
00:44:17 Sue Robinson
Find your book.
00:44:19 John Samuel
Head over to Amazon.com. The audible version is coming out in December and we are I'm so excited about this cause I we wanted to make it as accessible to everyone. Through you know, audio bugs, ebooks and and physical books and and you can also go to John.
00:44:35 John Samuel
Gsamuel.com
00:44:38 Sue Robinson
Awesome John.
00:44:39 Sue Robinson
Thank you so much for your time today and for all the great insights you shared with us.
00:44:43 Sue Robinson
You really are an inspiration and we're so glad we got a chance to get to know you and have you on the show today.
00:44:48 John Samuel
Thank you see you Vanessa have a great time.
00:44:49 Vanessa Alava
Thank you John.