Companies seeking to attract female talent and women looking for their next great employer have a powerful tech platform at their fingertips! Ursula Mead launched www.inhersight.com to help women assess prospective employers from a uniquely female point of view - and help companies create a more inclusive culture.
Find Ursula Mead Online:
LinkedIn
In Her Sight
We Get Real AF Podcast Credits:
Producers & Hosts: Vanessa Alava & Sue Robinson
Vanessa Alava
Sue Robinson
Audio Producer/Editor: Sam Mclean
Instagram Website
Technical Director: Mitchell Machado
Audio Music Track Title: Beatles Unite
Artist: Rachel K. Collier
YouTube Channel Instagram Website
Intro Voice-Over Artist: Veronica Horta
Cover Artwork Photo Credit: Alice Moore
We Get Real AF Podcast Online
InstagramTwitterFacebookLinkedInWebsite
Companies seeking to attract female talent and women looking for their next great employer have a powerful tech platform at their fingertips! Ursula Mead launched www.inhersight.com to help women assess prospective employers from a uniquely female point of view - and help companies create a more inclusive culture.
Find Ursula Mead Online:
LinkedIn
In Her Sight
We Get Real AF Podcast Credits:
Producers & Hosts: Vanessa Alava & Sue Robinson
Vanessa Alava
Sue Robinson
Audio Producer/Editor: Sam Mclean
Instagram Website
Technical Director: Mitchell Machado
Audio Music Track Title: Beatles Unite
Artist: Rachel K. Collier
YouTube Channel Instagram Website
Intro Voice-Over Artist: Veronica Horta
Cover Artwork Photo Credit: Alice Moore
We Get Real AF Podcast Online
InstagramTwitterFacebookLinkedInWebsite
Vanessa Alava
Welcome to we get really f everyone I'm Vanessa Alava.
Sue Robinson
And I'm Sue Robinson. Please remember to like, comment and subscribe to our awesome podcast.
Vanessa Alava
Here at We Get Real AF we love featuring tech designed specifically by women for women. So it's a pleasure to introduce today's guest. Ursula Meade, founder and CEO of company ratings platform In Her Sight. In Her Sight is an online professional development resource, which enables women to thrive and make better informed decisions about their careers, while searching for jobs within potential employers. In kind, the site helps hiring organizations become leaders in hiring and supporting a more inclusive workforce. Ursula is a tremendous advocate for gender diversity and is driven to create better workplaces for women across industries. Amen. Ursula, for what you're doing, and thank you for joining us.
Ursula Mead
Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Vanessa, and Sue. I'm very thrilled to be speaking with you today and sharing more about the work that we're doing at In Her Sight.
Vanessa Alava
Love it real quick, where can our listeners find you online?
Ursula Mead
@inhersight.com. that is our website, you can see data for hundreds of thousands of companies there, you can read lots of great content. Of course, we have social media across all the different channels. And you can get great resources on places like LinkedIn or Twitter. But our homepage is a great starting point. And if you feel like venturing beyond, we also have a mobile app.
Vanessa Alava
Fantastic. Well, thank you for sharing. Let's start at the top like explain what is In Her Sight?
Ursula Mead
Sure. So you gave a really great overview. And I was taking notes at some of the ways you described us because it was such a good description. But at its core In Her Sight is a platform with the mission to improve the workplace for women by measuring it. And the way that we do that is we have women share their insight into what it's like to work at companies, across all of the aspects of work that are most important to women. A lot of people will think of us as like a Glassdoor for women. And I think that's a really interesting comparison. There are certainly a lot in common with like a Yelp or TripAdvisor or Glassdoor, but what makes our platform different and more relevant, is looking at companies through that particular lens of women, and what women's priorities are at different stages of their lives and careers. And when we do that, when we look at companies and evaluate them that way, it turns out we measure a lot of things that hadn't been measured before. Whether it's things like a sense of belonging or feeling like you have representation and leadership and access to equal opportunities, things that we know can be hard for women to find, but are really important to their happiness. So we we are a platform that collects this really relevant information from women about what it's like to work at a company. And then we use that data to help women find companies where they can thrive and succeed. And we also use it to help companies do a better job of supporting women that they're already employing or that they're trying to attract.
Sue Robinson
I love this because to your point, women value some things similarly to men in a job in a profession in a workplace. But some things are very different. And I'm curious to know, what was the impetus for you starting In Her Sight?
Ursula Mead
That's a great question. I think a lot of people who start companies, they'll often talk about a one aha moment that they had. And they had this moment this realization that they needed to do something. Mine was a very long aha moment. It was years years of small aha is where I was thinking about different concepts, studying information. But most importantly, I was at a stage in my life, where I had switched on to the idea that workplaces weren't created equal, and that there was work that needed to be done to advance gender equality. And for me, the switching on moment was becoming a working mom. And I think the switching on moment for a lot of women is when they enter that stage of their lives, but it can happen at all different all different times. That could happen early in your career if you're feeling passed over for promotion or it can happen if you are really experiencing a safety concern and you're not happy with the resolution, there are a lot of different things that could make you think, gosh, I wonder if we have enough support here and really start to care about it. But for me, I happened to be a new working mom. And I was listening to the stories that were starting to come out about what women were facing at work. This was around the 2013 timeframe. So this was the beginning of this latest wave of awareness around gender issues. And I was, I was listening to sort of voices, like the important voices of women like Anne Marie Slaughter, who were publishing great content and data around the topic of support or lack of support for women at work. And I was also listening to a lot of personal anecdotes from women in my own life, whether they were friends or family. And I was just struck by how different all of our experiences were, in particular around motherhood and being a working mom. And that made me really interested in understanding Well, what is the support like for working moms? And that just extended more broadly to different areas? And what's it like for women who are looking to climb the corporate ladder, and what's it like for women who are looking for safe work environments, and, and I just began to immerse myself in the topic of gender equality at work. for example, at the time, just 4%, of Fortune 500 CEOs were women. I'm excited to report that at the end of 2020, we had our record high of women leaders in the fortune 500, it's doubled, it's at 8%. So still a long way to go. But that's improvement. But you know, I was looking at stats like that, like 4% of Fortune 500 CEOs are women, or, at the time, just 12% of private sector, employers offered fully paid maternity leave. And I was starting to try to figure out, well, what's being done to address this? And why isn't it working? Because if women are 50% of the workforce and talent pool, if we improve business performance and outcomes, why is support so lagging from from companies that we know, are working really hard to compete for talent, and this was just a problem area that started to fascinate me. And in that process, I started to think about why I felt the solutions that were being put forth weren't working, and how we could do it better and differently.
Vanessa Alava
can you get into some of the nitty gritty findings? Like what are women looking for in the workplace? What do employers need to be doing for women to feel supported?
Ursula Mead
So I mentioned that we measure companies across the areas that are specifically important to women. And some of those factors or categories that we measure really are focused on, on things that that you would consider specific to the women's experience. And some of the things that we measure are more broadly split more broadly applicable to the employee experience, but they can be felt interpreted, experienced differently by women. And so it's important for us to look at them from the lens, specifically of how women are experiencing them. So I'll give you an example of that would be something like flexible work hours, we know that flexibility is universally important to employees. It's something that is considered and valued regardless of your gender identity. However, it can be experienced very differently within a culture. And in many cases, when women think about flexibility and feeling like they can make use of flexible policies, their experiences differ. And so that's an example of a factor that we measured, but uh, broadly speaking, we measure opportunity. So we look at things like do women feel like they have access to equal opportunities? Are they satisfied with their chances of becoming a manager And their management opportunities, and how satisfied are they with their representation of women in leadership? Those are sort of our opportunity metrics. And those have been with us all along. We have a group that is schedule and flexibility where we measure things like paid time off and your comfort and satisfaction, being able to use that paid time off, the ability to telecommute with a new lens, of course, on COVID-19, and how satisfied you are since many companies went remote, or are now making very important decisions about whether to stay remote. And I mentioned flexibility. We also measure flexible work hours, we have an enrichment category that looks at things like wellness initiatives and salary satisfaction and, and mentorship and learning, a family category that looks at maternity and adoptive leave and general family growth support. And then our last overarching set of metrics is around culture. And there we have things like sense of belonging, support for diversity, you know, focusing on the programs that prioritize prioritize the Ei, social activities, the people you work with how respectful professional and unbiased they are, and also employer responsiveness, which is a really important metric that we developed coming out of the Me Too movement, where we measure how satisfied women are with their channels for elevating issues and concerns, like safety and harassment, and with the outcomes of escalating those issues. and we have an overall satisfaction. So we have 18. Now different categories that we measure, some of which have increased in importance, recently, and some of which have been added coming out of things like the pandemic and also out of Black Lives Matter last summer, when we really took a hard look at our product and looked for ways to make sure that we were collecting the most relevant information for for all of the women in our network, and that we were using it to its greatest ability toward intersectional needs, which which we are happy, happy to dig in on. But those are the categories we mentioned that we measure. And as I mentioned, we have data across those categories for coming close to 200,000 companies, primarily in the US. That's where we're focused. And we have 10s of millions of data points about women's experiences at work. And we get to see really interesting insights from this., we use them to sort of shed light on what's happening in different industries. Very high level broad strokes, people often say Well, what do women care about?. And it's interesting for us, because while things do tend to shuffle around in the rankings, the bread and butter benefits remain really the most highly sought after benefits from women. paid time off and salary satisfaction, are, of course, big leaders in the in what women tell us are must haves from their next work environments. And we also see things creep up and importance and make the top five like flexibility and the people you work with. And what's interesting is that those are really important, we know that women want to have have support in the areas where they get to determine what they're going to do with their lives where they have the means and the resources to you know, take the vacations spend time, the way they want to spend their time, have the financial support and strength they need to be able to afford the things that they want in life. But when we look at the things that correlate with women's happiness at work, we start to see some other metrics creep up. And this for us is always been an opportunity to help teach women about the things that they may not be looking for in a workplace, but that are really very important I need time off, I need good pay. But some of the things that drive your happiness or your unhappiness at work are things like the perception of equal opportunities, do I feel like I have the same opportunities as my male counterparts. That's when that is more important to women's happiness than women often realized when using our platform. Another one that is incredibly important that is not often identified as a must have is employer responsiveness. And that is, again that feeling like if you talk to your employer about something that needs attention, are you satisfied with how they respond. going into a company, you don't even realize you need channels for escalating issues or concerns. But once you've realized that, and once you've used it, if you're, if you're satisfied with it, you're you tend to be very happy at the company. And if you're dissatisfied, you tend to be unhappy with the company. And then the third one that I'll note, which is interesting to watch, because this is one of our newer metrics, is sense of belonging, and that one is increasingly showing up as a driver of women's overall satisfaction, which is if you feel comfortable bringing your whole self to work, if you feel included, and you feel welcome. That is a factor that we started measuring, about a year ago, and that one is increasingly showing up as very important to your overall happiness in a workplace.
Sue Robinson
It's interesting to me, because the accessibility and availability of so much data enabled by modern technology seems to be creating a bigger onus on companies to have to fire on all the cylinders that you just described, Ursula. It used to be if you had a nine to five, and you had a decent paycheck, and decent benefits, meaning health insurance and things like that, that's what the company owed to employees, right. But now that we can measure things like a sense of belonging, or you know, all these other data points that you've described, that that's a much heavier lift for companies to try to accommodate. And so I'm wondering how companies are receiving the data that you make available to them? and just describe a bit about the resources you do provide to employers who want to create a welcoming workplace and attract a really talented diverse workforce.
Ursula Mead
the bar is really high with understanding and supporting your employees. we have actually 1000s of engaged employers, companies that have reached out claimed their page that want to engage with our network or data in some way. We have hundreds of hiring companies that are specifically using us to to improve their reach with female candidates. But the thing that is starting to emerge some of the data showing that the companies that are really successful at firing on all cylinders is as you said Sue - the companies that are successful at supporting talent from underrepresented backgrounds - they have comprehensive listening strategies in place where they are both internally and externally finding insights about what that talent is experiencing and trying to incorporate that into their decision making. And sometimes that's in the form of surveys and questions and answers and, and voices. And sometimes it's also also through data and benchmarking. And so we provide a little bit of both. So while we might provide benchmarking data for them to see you know, how Is our satisfaction with access to equal opportunities compared to our peers compared to other companies of the same size or in the same industry, we'll also be sharing insights like how many women right now feel like they're heard by their employees at all? Because that's an example of a survey that we recently ran. Or we might, we might give them benchmarking data that tells them how satisfied in general women are with their wellness initiatives versus other companies. And at the same time, we'll enhance that insight by saying, Do you know the most important wellbeing benefit for women right now? Because we know these things are changing all the time. it's fascinating that right now, the number one most valued wellness benefit from employers, by women, is mental health support, which after the year that we've had, it's not that surprising, they're looking for things like meditation apps, and, you know, coverage of, of therapy stipends, and things that can help them with deal with the stress. And the burnout that has happened for so many women during the pandemic and everything that they've been trying to juggle. Whereas if we look at the responses from men through our research, they still want things like fitness classes, and nutrition and healthy snacks and things like that. So it's really important that employers have these extra insights. And they can, and should ask a lot of these questions internally, and a lot of them them do. But we also see that that women and talent from underrepresented backgrounds in general often don't feel enough safety, sharing their experiences through some of those internal surveys.
Vanessa Alava
you hit the nail on the head. They may not feel that, you know, safety autonomy to really speak up and say what they're really feeling without retaliation without it counting against them in some way, shape or form within the organization. So that was actually going to be a question of mine, because I know that you offer the insights that have been collected through the community you've created. But if you offer specific resources to organizations where you come in, as an outside party as a third, third party to offer those resources to have those types of consultant sessions and potentially do the collecting the data for the company, so that way, they there's a layer of separation.
Ursula Mead
Yes, I think that layer of separation is unfortunately more important than a lot of companies realize. I think companies have been fabulous about adopting those internal surveys. And you know, they've done it so much that sometimes people will talk about that internal survey fatigue. But sometimes that question is, are you really getting the authentic insight that you need? And and also, do you really know what questions to be asking? Because we sort of sit between women and employers, we get to look at women's experiences a little bit more holistically, and have a deeper, more personal that we don't talk about that concern me the most that I'm always the most fascinated by, you know, whether it's manufacturing or construction, these old male dominated industries that are far behind across all of our metrics they're never really in the spotlight, they don't get a ton of press and attention. But you know,, they are a really important to the employment of millions of women, and there's a lot of work that really needs to be done by those industries. and finance too, is actually an interesting one, because that's one of those industries, where we've seen a lot of gains there in particular, in the opportunity realm with women getting access to a lot of the top management positions in financial institutions. And we've, we've seen a lot of gains there. And, and at the same time in parallel, we have seen rising satisfaction in that industry, which has been great to watch. And then you also mentioned sort of the benefits to companies if they do get this right. And if they are able to create happy gender diverse workforces.
Ursula Mead
there's been this long established and growing business case for why companies should prioritize this. And we have, we have collected a lot of that information, we share it back with our employer partners. One thing that I think is is interesting in the last year, is that one of the stronger focuses has been on the moral imperative to do it, not just specifically to focus on women, but to focus on equity in in, in general. And, again,this has been a product of a lot of the racial equality conversations coming out of last summer and Black Lives Matter. But I think that it's introduced, a really important, a really important imperative for companies, which is the moral imperative to focus on this, because it's the right thing to do, instead of just focusing on the potential business benefits that can provide because while that can be a really great way to get adoption from leadership, if a financial return, is what they're after, and it doesn't appear as quickly or as, as apparently, as, as they hope, it can often lead to a quicker abandonment of those efforts. And studies show that if if your justification for some some of these dei initiatives is primarily around the financial benefits, for example, that those companies are more likely to, change those priorities and and reallocate that effort if they don't get that payoff quick enough. It's nice to also see that the moral imperative is resonating with more and more companies because this isn't just a you know, flip the light switch on and, and everything is you're gonna you'll put these programs in place and you hire a few more people and then you you turn around and you see this particular return. It's really a long investment.
Vanessa Alava
conversation with them, where we can ask questions about feeling heard by employers., and they don't have to worry about a this information, you know, identifying them in some way or or being being shared in a way that that puts their identity at risk. And they don't have to worry about their employer, knowing too much about them or thinking, oh, gosh, you know, Jane has too much on her plate and she feels overwhelmed. Like she's not ready for this next project. And I think that's, unfortunately still a huge concern for women when they're when they're getting their feedback internally.
Sue Robinson I was loo
king at your website, and I thought it was very interesting that tech and finance industries topped your June list 32% and 30%, respectively, of Best Places to Work for the companies that fit into the best places to work for, you know, since we're a technology podcast. I also thought that the statistic that there is 22% less turnover in companies that have a diverse workforce. I thought that was that was a really good insight. Because again, I feel like especially if you're a smaller organization, trying to juggle all of this data, and what kinds of programs and policies and things can I put into place? That could be kind of challenging. So I think it's helpful to know that there's a payoff from that perspective. And I'm curious if there's a certain size company that you find really can benefit the best from the kinds of data points that you guys are collecting for them?
Ursula Mead
I'd say that we have had a lot of attention on both of those industries - on tech and finance. Because there are a lot of companies that you know, we just be love to talk about, whether they're the big tech companies or the big banks and they get a lot of the spotlight around these issues. And there are a lot of very clearly established challenges, different ones, but established challenges in those industries. At the same time, our data has always shown that because those industries have been competing for talent more aggressively and for a longer time in particular for women talent for tech talent, they're starting at a at a better place when it comes to things like all of these perks and all of the different ways that you can support your employees. And when we look at Tech overall, I think we wrote an article for TechCrunch, many years ago, that said that tech was the overall top rated industry by women. Now, it has some some metrics and some factors where they're the lowest rated, but on balance, it has a lot of things going for it in terms of, again, things like salary and compensation being extremely good in that industry. parental leave has always been something that tech companies have been leaders around in providing that a lot of the flexibility, these things have been, you know, sort of part of the tech story for a long time.
Vanessa Alava
if you set the tone, down, the line is only going to work to your favor, and your product is going to be better for it, therefore, then you will make more money. You know, it's like, it's this domino effect that once you put it, put the dominoes in a row. And then once you tip it forward, eventually, it's going to tip the next one and the next one, the next one. So it's just really reframing your your mindset
Ursula Mead
I think sometimes companies that are just starting out on this journey, and they're just starting to look at this and prioritize this and figure this out. Sometimes they're concerned or, or sensitive to the fact that it's the beginning of their journey. But on the other hand, we're always telling them that transparency around this being a new priority is one of their most powerful assets, both internally and externally. Because the more that they can own, this is where we are today. But this is where we want to be, the more they're going to gain the trust that they want from the women that are in that circle. And the more they're going to make them allies on that journey and say, Alright, I want to become a part of this change. And the more that talent coming in is going to say, this is a really honest place. And this is a place that is starting to focus on this. So there's a lot of upward momentum that can happen here. There's a lot of potential. And we try to get them to reframe the idea that they're just starting into into a positive. Because a lot of them will say, Oh, you know, are we don't have a lot of women in leadership yet. And I say that's okay. The most important thing is to be open about what you have today, and where you want to be tomorrow.
Sue Robinson
I think that's a really important point that you make Ursula because 50% of employees in this country are employed by small businesses, right. and small businesses, maybe don't have all the resources to do all the things all at once that a large organization could do. And so I think it's super important for whatever organization size and type in industry you're in, to show that you are on the path, that you're listening to your employees, and that you want what's best for everybody in the realm of what is feasible for you at that moment in time.
Vanessa Alava Absolutely.
Ursula Mead
you had asked, Is there a sweet spot in terms of company size and engaging with a platform like this. And I think we serve a lot of different companies of all different sizes, and all different industries, and really, with all different needs, some is centered around getting the message out that they exist, or, you know, starting this journey and trying to understand what's important. And others, it's specifically around recruiting, so there are a lot of different needs that we serve. But some of my favorite companies to work with our they're really early stage companies. This has been a group that we didn't really expect him to sort of be able to prioritize this from a time and financial perspective. But the early stage companies that are growing, and they see what has happened to the other companies that have come before them, and they want to do things differently. they have been really engaged partners of ours, both from a listening perspective, but also a learning perspective where they say like, you know, here's what we're doing today, we're going to have more resources soon. What should we focus on next. So this is what we can provide right now. And we said, that's great. We'll help you find women who are looking for support in those areas. Because there are certainly women who will say, I love it, I need these three things, this is a great place for me. But then when you're ready, and you have the resources and capacity to increase the benefits and support, we can also say to them, here's another area for you to focus and it's going to open up you know, this many more women in this field who are saying like, I need a company that can provide this too. And so so early stage partners are really fun to work with. They're just really on top of DEI, which we love.
Sue Robinson
Well, I think that's where change will come right is if more and more small organizations feel empowered to start on this path, and they gain momentum, and they see other companies doing it. And they see resources like you're providing that make it easier for them to do it. That's how I feel corporate culture changes that kind of rises up from the bottom.
Vanessa Alava
Absolutely. One is not just asking the question, you mentioned something key earlier, Ursula, and that was listening. They're listening, they're implementing, and they're doing and that's what we want, obviously. And then another thing that we love to talk about is alignment. consumers will come, you know, when they see things that are aligned missions that are aligned with their values. Sue, before we get into our lightning round, I know that we want to learn more about Ursula, his career in tech,
was tech always in your future as as a growing up in high school and college. Just to kind of walk us down your career a little bit.
Ursula Mead
Tech was actually a really fortunate surprise in my career. I actually started in publishing and was focused on sort of subscription businesses in the publishing field. And I started at what at the time was a publishing a financial publishing company called The Motley Fool, that was transitioning into a financial tech company, as the publishing industry was crashing, as we know in 2008, and models around publishing were shifting dramatically. And as an always innovating company, they wanted to reorient around agile development, they wanted to create more online products, and they wanted to shift and when I got to the company, I was joining as as a publisher of financial newsletters. And I think it was within my first couple of weeks that I was sent to my first agile development conference, where I was being taught all of the ways of, of agile and Scrum and how to how to build products efficiently and effectively as, as we grew our technology team. And as my role became that of a product manager, and I really could not have asked for a better introduction, because it turns out that product management is really my calling today. I'm the CEO of In Her Sight, but you really can't keep me out of the product development at all. Because it's still where my passion lies. It's for anybody who is considering the the tech field and they're not really sure where to begin. I'm always happy to tell them all about product management and why I think it's the best entry point into into the field.
Vanessa Alava
Awesome. All right. Let's, let's get into it. Let's do it.
Sue Robinson
First of all, a lightning round is super fun, super easy. Just to get to know you on a more personal level, I will start us off. If you had not followed your tech career path, what profession would you have pursued?
Ursula Mead
I always have loved being in and volunteering for libraries. So I might have had an alternate career path working in library science or something like that.
Vanessa Alava
Oh, that's unique. We haven't heard that one before. All right, Ursula, how do you define success?
Ursula Mead
For me, I know when I'm successful when I'm feeling the the happiest.
Sue Robinson
What are three pieces of advice you give your younger self?
Ursula Mead
I wish I could go back in time and tell earlier Ursula to invest more sooner. And I want any when listening to this to this podcast to do that too. To worry less, and to compost, more
Sue/Vanessa - Love it! Sustainability efforts.
Vanessa Alava
All right, what celebrity would you cast to play you in a movie?
Unknown Speaker
So when I was when I was a small girl, I was about the same age as growing up as Wynona Ryder. She's had a crazy career, but people used to say, Oh, you look just like Wynona Ryder…I guess she would be the most appropriate person.
Vanessa Alava
I love Wynonna writer, especially in Stranger Things. That's one of my favorites.
Sue Robinson
Tell us something about you that people might be surprised to know.
Ursula Mead
Let's see. I I can spend a four hour block on a Saturday just flipping crepes.
Vanessa Alava
Flipping crate like crepes like pancake crate. Yes, yes. Yes. You’re a girl after my own heart.. I love it - so you had me when you said crepes. And I'm like, huh?
Sue Robinson
At first I was like, “crate” is that that type of CrossFit? And then I got “crepe”!
Ursula Mead
no yes, crepes where I find that to be one of the best ways to relax is to just make, you know, a huge batter of create a huge bowl of crepe batter and just to stay in there and make large stacks of crepes on the weekend.
Vanessa Alava
Yeah, I'm speaking my love language. Okay, awesome. Um, I'm going to Ursula’s house. All right. What myth about women in STEM? Would you like to dispel?
Ursula Mead
I think it's time to to break the myth that women don't know how to and don't negotiate.
Sue Robinson Alrighty, let's last one. Fill in the blank, blank like a girl.
Ursula Mead
I'll follow that with negotiate like, I like it a sec. Yes.
Vanessa Alava
Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Again, this has been so fantastic. Check out inhersight.com for amazing insights on companies, you should be looking at things the employer should be doing to diversify their workforce and to support women in across all all industries.
Sue Robinson
Yes, thank you, Ursula. This has been so so great. love what you're doing love the platform. Definitely check it out.
Ursula Mead
Thank you both. It's been great.