Ep 93: Profesh Sesh: Holding Two Full-Time Jobs At Once

we all know that lots of us have a side hustle. And in general, most people understand and are supportive of that. But what happens when somebody is actually holding two jobs that are competing for each other's attention, and they're doing it on the DL so that neither of their employers knows about it? Apparently, this is a thing, Alisa, give us a scoop.

Alisa Walters

My gosh, well, it was both of you that alerted me to this down the rabbit hole of what's happening out there. I was reading a Forbes article, and I think that they, they, they said it the best, like, the like the first rule of Fight Club, you don't tell anyone? I think that it's, it's really interesting. And I think that companies shouldn't be surprised. I mean, it's, it's, you know, it's that taboo conversation, you may have this side hustle that you're doing, and you may have some downtime in your work day from your, you know, your, your first job. And, you know, I think everybody's responded to an email here or there, or sends a project off for their side hustle, but we're talking full time jobs, people juggling two full time jobs and getting two really robust salaries and comp packages, bonuses, we're talking the whole nine yards here. It is something that's really coming to the forefront and becoming a less taboo topic, people have to make a living. And if you can do it in a way that is, you know, you've got Moxie, you can take that risk and toe the line with not going insane. Why not? If they're not in direct competition with the other job, and you're able to get all of your work done? Well, why not?

Vanessa Alava

I completely agree with you. I think that if you're in a position where it's not directly in competition, or affecting your other work, and the other work isn't affecting the other work. I think why not? And I, you know, I think that this is obviously a very situational thing. I don't think a parent with children that has other life, things going on, can can juggle all of this at once effectively without a ball dropping at some point. That's a very difficult and tough ask. But I think for anyone that has the, the, you call it Moxie, but the the schedule and the ability to handle two jobs at once and have the ability to save one salary completely, while the other one pays for bills. I mean, that's awesome. That's my personal take on it.

Sue Robinson

I think it's awesome, too. But I also think just slippery slope, because the articles I read said people weren't necessarily doing both jobs, full time to the best of their abilities, they were letting things slip. And there was an ethical question of if you're not delivering at your fullest capacity to an employer, who believes that they are retaining you for your full time bandwidth, mental effort, energy connections, you know, full time, eight hours is how that's defined typically. And you're not giving that? Is that an ethical thing to do?

Vanessa Alava

That's interesting. And I think that, in any scenario, you're going to have the bad apple that ruins it for the rest of us, right? Because I think I think that there are people that could manage two jobs, like very easily and effectively and not let one interfere with the other. I really do believe that. Now, do I think that there are other people out there taking advantage of the system? And that do take advantage of any type of system? Yes. But I think that that shouldn’t ruin it for anybody else that wants to really take advantage, at least during this time, we're we're able to work remotely, and they're able to give their all to two separate jobs without it without it ethically. And I mean, again, there's a moral compass here that we're relying on and hoping they have, you know, I think that you're always gonna have that person, those people out there that just want to take advantage of a good situation.

Sue Robinson

So here's a question for Alisa. As an employer. So you can have a little say you can handle two full time jobs at full, very robust salaries. Because what I what I read in these articles in Forbes in other places was people were making $600,000. So they weren't just doing what they could to get by. They were making and that's fantastic. If they can do that. Should you tell your employer if? Or should you allow your employer to be under the impression that that you are only committed to them full time? And is that unethical to not be transparent? And to let them be misled? Basically.

Alisa Walters

Yeah, I think that we're gonna see a lot of companies, if this is something that's going to continue, and they want to retain a good employee who potentially is doing two full time jobs, but it's not hindering what they're they're doing for their current company, we may see in this remote environment that company's contracts might shift. I think that if in your, start paperwork, there might be an NDA that you're signing, there may be a non-compete, that you're signing. In that I believe that the stipulation is you do have to notify if there's something else that you're doing. And I think even specifically, if it's in direct competition, I, I'm conflicted about that, because part of me wants to say, you know, but on the other side of that, if you are working within, if a company is like, these are the hours that we need you to work, you need to be available between nine to five, Monday through Friday. And your second job, your second full time job is taking you away from that you need to have that conversation. Absolutely. That is an ethical thing. If you are available, and doing your job, and you're bringing in income, that's, that's for personal reasons that you need this extra income. I don't necessarily personally feel that that needs to be shared, if it's, if it's not hindering your ability to effectively get your job done.

Vanessa Alava

I agree with you. And I completely agree with the contracts kind of changing on you know, onboarding, because I've been part of companies that at the very beginning, say, what other jobs do you potentially have? And I do, I do believe in transparency there. And to your point, Alisa, if both jobs are nine to five, and you know, one of them's going to have a conflict, I always think it’s gonna get out, especially in this day and age where all of our stuff is digitally, everywhere online, there's gonna be a slip, and then that just becomes a really awkward situation to have a conversation about it after the fact. Right. But to your point, if none of that is like within a contractual thing, you haven't been asked or whatever, I do think it's up to you, if it is going to interfere with your hours to have that conversation and just say, Hey, this is really gonna help me out. This is what I'm considering doing, because I can do it effectively. And I can promise you that. And if it doesn't work out for that person, maybe there's an opportunity then to say, well, are there more responsibilities I can take on or even a salary increase to make up for the fact that I'm not going to be able to take this on? Because you're not comfortable with it? Right, right.

Sue Robinson

Right. I'm just thinking it's like being in two romantic relationships.

Vanessa Alava

Oh, absolutely.

Sue Robinson

It's like, Who am I really committed to here? Oh, both of you. But I'm not going to tell you about each other. It's like watching an episode of The Bachelor.

Alisa Walters

I think that's a perfect analogy. Because, you know, you also have to be careful because I think no matter how buttoned up somebody is and how they're able to juggle and multitask. I do think that trying to work 16 hours each day for two different companies. we're all human and there's going to be a slip up. So having those conversations where you know, Vanessa, you called it out where it's going to get out eventually. So why not just be very transparent about it. that way, if your boss is noticing you're slipping, you're not doing your job, then you know, that needs to be called to the table. also if this is something you are considering doing, I do think that you have to be established and competent in I'm calling it job one before you seek out that second full time job right away. this article really talks about white collared industries tech finance insurance. This isn't something that everybody's able to do. It's not something that single parents who are just trying to make ends meet, and they're their one full time job. So I think it's important to recognize and there are people in those situations who do need the income of up to two jobs,

Vanessa Alava

you hit the nail on the head, I was just thinking, this isn't a novel concept. I mean, we hear about people that work two, three jobs. And to your point, Alisa, because of the situation, they're in all the time, but this is a different type of workforce that we're speaking of. And if you have a salary, and you have, you know, that nine to five situation, like, usually in those positions, they your employer is under the impression, and I think, Sue, this is where you're coming from with the moral situation is they're expecting all of you for that amount of time, and that you work solely for that organization.

Sue Robinson

well, it's what you're leaving them to expect. And so I think that the takeaway for me is don't be misleading. Right. And that's hard. I mean, I think it would be really hard for me if I had a full time highly salary job, and there was another full time how highly salary job that was also interesting to me that fit in my skill, wheelhouse. And I knew I could double my income. Yeah, I totally get, wanting to do that. But I also think, at the end of the day, you have to be transparent, first of all with yourself to what you ladies have said, which is can I really do two full time jobs that are in conflict with the same work, work time, transparent with yourself, and then it's hard, but you need to be, I think, transparent with your employers as well, because it sort of goes back to the golden rule, right? Like you would want, you would want that if you were in their situation, I just think things come back to bite you. If you're not upstanding about them, it comes to your own integrity. And I think this is all inevitable, because we do live in a side hustle culture and a side hustle. I think everybody's like, Sure, yeah, she does that on the weekend, or she does that in the evenings or blah, blah, blah, or to what you're saying, Vanessa, about when people have a different type of job, or maybe they're, they're in a service industry, and they're doing one, they have some blood work several jobs on several different shifts, to me, that's a different animal than, than having two people who think that they hold the same place in your life, when in fact, they're both standing in the same spot.

Vanessa Alava

but this the gig economy that we work in now, and I don't know if this plays into the whole, like salary with benefits and all that. But let's say you have that. And you know that you can knock out projects quickly. And it only takes you a certain amount of time, but it pays at a higher level. I think that's fair game, man. I really do. And I don't, and should it not really even affect anything. And I guess this goes all the way back to the whole transparency thing. That employer shouldn't have an issue with you doing it. And if they do, then that's a separate conversation. And it's something that should be handled, handled in a different way, versus keeping it to yourself and not not being transparent about it. Yeah, yeah,

Sue Robinson

I think it is, you're right, you're 100%, right, we live in a gig economy now. And this is going to be more and more of a thing. The way we think about work is different. Right? And the way we think about our employer is different and the way we're working is different. So Alisa, what are some questions that maybe a person who's in this situation should be asking themselves to know that they are handling it in a way that is fair to them? And is in it has integrity for their employer? Like how do they What do they ask themselves?

Alisa Walters

I think number one is, is this something realistically you could handle? Will having a second full time job interfere with your current full time job? Are you able to fairly and effectively give your time to both of these companies? Do you have the self-discipline to to juggle and multitask Why are you seeking out the second full time position what's going on in your current role that you're finding that you need to go and have this other full time position? I think it's really important to be self-aware and ask yourself what it is that you're you're doing and and how competent Are you in your current role that you're you're ready to take on something else. And then I think for the ethical side of things. Look, reflecting on okay. Is there a contract that I signed with this company? Am I required to work a very certain schedule with this company? Would I be essentially infringing upon that time? If I take on this other job? Is this other job going to? Can I successfully give each company that going back to that first question of, can I give each company that fair amount of time in a day? And be available? So I think it's, it's reflecting on on just being realistic with yourself? And then what you owe to each of these companies?

Vanessa Alava

Alisa? How do you strike that conversation with your employer? And what should you bring up? What are things that you put on the table?

Alisa Walters

Yeah, well, I think, may have a specialized skill, that, you've developed from the the current role, or that you're doing in your current role that maybe this other company has, has recruited you, and they want to have a conversation with you, because of this specialized skill. Hey, you know, I think having that conversation where I have this opportunity to take on this position within this other company, because of this special skill set. It is not in direct competition with this role. It is something that I am interested in, in doing. It does require, full time-ish hours, and I want to have a transparent conversation with you to let you know that it is something that I'm taking on, that I would like to take on. Is there any conflict with that, I will not allow it to impact, my day to day and if at any point you, you are seeing that my performance is not up to par. And we'd cross that bridge when we come to it. But I would really like to figure this out. And, and, and have this opportunity. I love I love this company. I love what I'm doing for this company. And that's one of the reasons why I don't want to walk away from it. But I would really like to explore this opportunity outside of the hours that I dedicate to you.

Vanessa Alava

Love that.

Sue Robinson

Yeah. I think, if you find yourself having to lie a lot and cover your tracks, then that's probably a huge red flag. But if you can have the type of transparent conversation that you just described, Alisa, and that's going to depend on what type of current employer you have, and how open minded they are. And it's a it's a risky conversation to have, right. But if you can have that, then I think you should have those kinds of opportunities. But I do think red flags are like if you're having to lie, if you're having to cover your tracks. If you're not living with your own true north in a way that shows integrity, then something you're going to drop a ball to Vanessa's point or something's going to happen that it's not going to go well. So it's this workforce that we're in now, as a moving target. It'll be interesting to see how this shapes up.

Vanessa Alava

Yeah. Again, and again, it's digital, everything, everything has a digital twin. And LinkedIn is a big thing. something will slip through the cracks, and it's just not worth it at the end of the day.

Alisa Walters

Yeah. And, you know, if a company truly values their employee and knows that what this employee is bringing to the table for them and wants to retain them. If this isn't a company that's going to be in direct competition, then the company has nothing to lose, I feel by being supportive and letting, that person do this other job, as long as it's not hindering their ability to to produce what needs to be done for them. I think it's kind of you know, that the scope of what you do outside of work it's on you and I do think that you don't want to burn bridges. You don't want to do something like this, not have conversations. If those conversations need to be had, and find yourself that you've you've burned all of your professional bridges because you were not able to do this successfully.

Sue Robinson

And from the employer standpoint, I mean, I feel like if I had an employee who I valued and they were doing really Great work for me. And they came to me and they had that transparent conversation and said that things that you just said, Alisa, I love working here, I want to continue working here. I've figured this out, and I really want to get this other opportunity to try, I might be inclined to say, Okay, thank you for your integrity. Thank you for telling me. Yeah, I'm gonna be watching your work performance probably more closely now. Because I know that you're trying to pack more into your life. But yes, go for it.

Vanessa Alava

And, you know, let's, let's just see where this goes. And I hope I would hope that most organizations, if they have a great employee, would at least be open to that. Absolutely. Especially on the financial side, if you know that you can offer that employee double their salary, and they're able to do that in an effective way, working for another employer at the same time. I mean, yeah, give them the opportunity to try it out and see, and, you know, I support the employer saying, hey, let's check in, let's check in, you know, once a month or what have you, like, just set up a schedule, we're checking in with each other and being transparent, and continue to see how it moves forward? Because you don't want to say yes, and feel like very confident in a situation. And then in a few months, say Oh, my gosh, what did I do? So I think, again, we go back to the word respect, and being mutually respectful of each other and the work relationship.

Sue Robinson

Absolutely agree.

Alisa Walters

if this is something people are, going back and forth on overemployed.com, is the website that's providing a lot of conversations around this and how to do it, while there are NDA, non competes and things like that employees are at will employees. So, I think when it comes down to it, if you're giving your best and you're performing within the 40 hours a week or whatever it may be, that's required of you to do your job. And you're not disrespecting the company in any way, shape, or form. And it's something that you're able to do, I think that you should explore it, but be honest with yourself.

Sue Robinson

Great advice. As always, thank you!

Vanessa Alava
Thank you, Alisa.

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Ep 93: Profesh Sesh: Holding Two Full-Time Jobs At Once

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