180 - "Hacking Your ADHD" Podcast Host, William Curb, Talks Routines and More

What a wonderful conversation with the one and only William Curb of the top ADHD podcast "Hacking Your ADHD". We cover his time as a professional frisbee manager, his podcast, grabber-reach tools, routines and much more! 

William's Links:

Hacking Your ADHD Website

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@hackingyouradhd on the other socials! 

More about William:

William Curb, born in Oahu, Hawaii and graduated with a BA in English from the University of Puget Sound in 2008. He now resides in Washington state as a non-binary individual with a loving wife and two children. William's career path has been diverse, from real estate to managing a professional frisbee team. His true passion lies in podcasting, where he now advocates for ADHD awareness on his podcast, "Hacking Your ADHD," (launched in 2019) where he offers actionable advice and fosters a supportive community for those with ADHD, aiming to dispel misconceptions and empower individuals.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

This month, it's all about routines. I've gotten into the routine of talking about routines this month. It is very routinerific. So why don't we get somebody else? Let's get somebody else to talk about it. And I say, what better way to learn about routines than to bring into someone with ADHD who has successfully taken their podcast to the top of the charts? You already know who it is because you looked at the title, but if you did not look at the title, oh, the mystery is about to be revealed. You are listening to ADHD Big Brother, the podcast for adults struggling with their ADHD and their depression and anxiety and I'm your host, Russ Jones. I'm an ADHD coach and I run the Platinum Award-winning community coaching of the same name, ADHD Big Brother. And I also have ADHD and depression. It's craptastic. Welcome aboard. Let's learn some stuff, laugh at some stuff. Ladies and gentlemen, here's some stuff. Welcome to the podcast. How are you guys doing on this fine February day? I'm having a kick-ass time this month. I gotta say, I'm really enjoying this month. Uh, you guys know I'm all about adults with ADHD getting shit done. If that's your jam, then you know, I got the peanut butter, baby. We just gotta find ourselves a couple slices of bread, then we got ourselves a sandwich. But my mental health report for the month is so far so good. Having a good having a good COVID, you know? Having a good go of it. One of the best ways I believe to get shit done is to learn from those that have done the thing. And I got an awesome opportunity to talk to one of the greatest uh ADHD podcasters out there. If you search your podcast platform for ADHD, you will see my guest's podcast at the top of the list. Perhaps you've heard of it, hacking your ADHD with William Kerb. Perhaps perhaps you've seen that show up in your search. I'm a big fan of his podcast. Hacking your ADHD is just awesome. If you happen to be unfamiliar with William Kerb, uh well, allow me to read from the bio here. William Kerb, born in Oahu, Hawaii, graduated with a BA in English from the University of Puget Sound in 2008. He now resides in Washington State. Hello, Washington. I grew up there. Uh, he's a non-binary individual with a loving wife and two children. William's career path has been diverse from real estate to managing a professional frisbee team. Yeah, we're talking about that. His true passion lies in podcasting, where he now advocates for ADHD awareness on his podcast, Hacking Your ADHD, launched in 2019, where he offers actionable advice and fosters a supportive community for those with ADHD, aiming to dispel misconceptions and empower individuals. And he does a god dang brilliant job of it. I'm a big fan, and I got to talk to him. So let's just dive into our conversation. William and Russ shooting the shit about routines, the podcast, Frisbee Golf, Picker Up or Grabby Toys, and more. Let's listen in now. Well, you know, that your journey to the beginning of your podcast is, I think, interesting to a lot of us, uh, because you have like the number one podcast on ADHD.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

But like apparently, apparently you're the hot shit on ADHD. But the uh you're and I don't say that to try and sound cocky. That is like every occasionally I'll look at numbers and be like, oh, that's weird. That's I'm number one.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

But like you, I I was reading your bio before here, and I'm sure well, first of all, I'm curious how you got started, but how what happened with the managing a a f a professional frisbee team? What goes into hanging up your hat on that? And then uh the league went under.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

So that that that's what happened is that there was no more league. I mean, there are there is a different leak now, but I am not part of that league. Wow, how was that time?

SPEAKER_01 3:50

That sounds like literally the funnest freaking job ever.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

It was I I enjoyed it a lot, but it is kind of what drove me to understanding that I need to manage my ADHD because it like brought out some of the worst ADHD habits with me where I'd be like, I'm going to like work till 1 a.m. and I'm going to do all these things where I'm like, I'm doing these projects that aren't getting finished, but they really need to get finished. And I'm like, oh, well, then I'm going to start email answering these emails and I'm going to be um putting together things at you know middle of the night. And it was not, it's where I had to learn work balance. And then after that, I uh was like, well, I still want to do frisbee stuff, so I started going, I'm gonna do a frisbee podcast. And then during the frisbee podcast, when I didn't have a boss, I was like, Oh, my ADHD is what's really holding me back.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Wow, you were diagnosed before this, like during the frisbee. So then during the podcast, you uh you got to managing it, or at what point do you pivot and change uh course?

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Diagnosed um after college 2012, maybe so a while after college, I guess. Um don't remember when the league started, don't remember when it ended. But I during the league, I was like being nuts with that kind of stuff, then went to do my own podcast. During that, I was like struggling. Like I was like in the beginning it was pretty good, but then I was struggling to make content and do things and um texting with a friend, being like, man, I want to do this stuff, but I'm just too lazy, and then kind of like trail off. I'm like, it's not lazy, it's probably just my ADHD, and then like, oh wait, what I can do something about that if it's that's what I think it is. And so then that text led me to like looking at uh the um R ADHD subreddit and going uh watching a ton of uh how to ADHD from Jessica McCabe and being like, Oh, oh, there is so much more I can do that I just never considered because when I went through my diagnosis, I don't remember if they offered to do any of this kind of stuff, but I did didn't do anything for my ADHD management beyond medication when I first got diagnosed. And while medication helps, it does not teach you how to deal with your ADHD.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Okay. So yeah, so it was just like that like pivot of like, oh, this is something I can do something about that was the the that move to doing things. And so then after doing some coaching and really getting into it, I was like, well, I really liked doing that podcast other than being really bad at it. But now I know all those things that I'm bad at and can do work on those. Maybe I can do this ADHD podcast and kind of just went from there with that. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

And then and you skyrocket to the top.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah, well, I mean, there was uh a lot of luck, uh luck, uh, that I had the the lucky break of there being a pandemic and uh having a lot of people want you're welcome. Thanks, COVID. Yeah, but I mean, really, like having launched my podcast right before then, I had enough episodes that when the pandemic hit and people were looking for content um about ADHD, it was just like, oh, this is this is their short episodes. I want to do this. This guy has a back catalog already. I'm gonna listen to a bunch of these, I'm gonna listen to a bunch of times. Um, and that just became a big driver. It's like it was right place at the right time, even though the right place at the right time was a really awful time.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Yeah, it was an awful time. It all the smiles went away from my life. Like the all that the the the uh when everyone like wore masks and nobody made eye contact anymore. Oh god, talk about depression, like sinking into a darkness, man. That was a really bad time.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Yeah, and it was you know, like having to be like, oh, I'm gonna have to figure out uh how to while it was great for the download numbers, I was like, then I'm doing I'm now doing this at home. I have kids at home full time, and you know, so I I'll in the be there was a lot of episodes that were like, hey, how am I gonna manage this? This is not going well.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Oh, wait in your episodes, would you talk your way through your current circumstance? Is that what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Yeah, I'd either talk my way through, I'd either directly talk about what I was dealing with or be like, come up with my episode topic based on what I wanted to work on.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

And then be like, okay, this is like, you know, I'm like having trouble with figuring out a to-do list or my daily planning or something, and then write that episode, and then people would be like, and because I'm coming at was writing it at it and coming at it from an angle of this is what I'm trying to deal with right now, and how I'm thinking through this process, and here's what's gonna what's working and what's not. That was, I think, a lot. People was like were able to really resonate with that because it was like I wasn't coming at it from like a perspective of like, I'm an expert telling you how to do things. I was like, uh this is hard stuff.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

It is, yeah, I love that aspect, and that's one of the things I really love about your show, and it is the um the options, and then also the uh the summary at the end is is genius, dude. That is uh phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Thank you very much. Um I I mean the the it means it's great because my podcast is like an amalgamation of a bunch of other podcasts I listen to, where I was like, oh, I remember hearing the podcast that had the uh like some top tips at the end. I'm gonna definitely do that. I'm gonna make the episode short, like this other podcast I really like, and I'm going to uh a number of features where I was like, oh, if I just take all these pieces of podcasts I like and put it in together, like, oh, I'm gonna do the thing we're at the beginning of the show. This is the introduction, this is what the show's about. Here's what are the things, the topics I'm gonna cover. That way you know what's going in, and then do the same thing at the end. This is what I just told you.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

That's great. I love it. It's you know, and one of the how I typically will do my podcasts is is usually what's hot, what's hot for me in the moment. So, similarly, like either what am I struggling or with, or what do I just have a really strong opinion about in the moment because I've talked to somebody or I've dealt with a thing. Um, that usually kind of informs what what I'm gonna do. I'm theming my my months this year. I'm trying something new. And so this month, uh like January was all about big goals, how is putting them together, how do we do it as ADHDers? And then this month, I really wanted to focus on routines. Um, it's uh it's what we need, but it's also a curse word, but it's also something great. I know from my own experience with ADHD, structure is it's what is needed. Um, and the more you have it, the more non-structured time you can get, at least in my in my world. And routines is similar to that. So I'm curious like what your take is on routines. Um, and that there has to have been something that you've put together for you to have a successful podcast, and I'm kind of pointing at a specific aspect of your life too, is you don't go from uh I'm gonna do a podcast to having six years worth. I think we're at six years with you.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

You're close to you. This was this uh this will be my sixth year, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah. There there has to be a routine in there somewhere, some kind of old reliable. Um, so I was wondering if you could talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yeah. Well, I mean, like one of the first things for starting an episode is just having a template created where I'm like, I do like there's the the steps I go through where I'm like, I'm doing the like coming up with the idea, doing this pre-writing stage where I'm just gathering ideas, writing down thoughts, um, and then taking that, throwing that in, like being like, okay, that's crap. Now let's make this polish this and make this something that's listenable to. Um sometimes I'll then do like, okay, now my new thing, also awful, let's do that again. Uh and having that step, so like when I I use uh Notion to organize a lot of my stuff now. Um I'd previously done it in Evernote, but uh I like the uh format of Notion a little bit better. Uh and I just click buttons like have the little database of the episodes and click button, new episode, and it pops up three pages of pre-write, script, and intro outro. The intro outro has like kind of the things written out. I uh even leave I have spelling errors in my template, which is actually kind of helpful sometimes when I need to like be like, well, I need something to fix. Okay, I'm doing stuff now.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Uh I'll tinker around there for a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Yeah, and I'm like I have a assistant I work with now, uh assistant producer, and uh he he's like like, should we fix these? And I'm like, nah, it's not I'm not gonna read the words wrong there. I don't I don't even really look at them. It's the the red squigglies actually help me here. If I am stuck and I can't write, I just need to start doing something. Um, and then being like, oh, I'm just gonna fix this typo and this one and do that. And since it's not like important stuff, it's it gets me builds a little bit of momentum. Okay. Uh and so I I do find, and then it's also it's a great way to help fight perfectionism having purposeful errors, especially because they're purposeful errors that no one else ever sees. Um, so yeah, so that's kind of like the routine there. It's like I've just built that like this is when I write, this is when uh these are the steps I go through to make this happen. And that's that kind of routine.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

So it's not necessarily this is Monday at 8 a.m. This is just uh in terms of your process, your process has an order to it.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah. And then also I have to be like, since I have uh editor now, I have to send my files to my editor by a certain time so that it can get to be edited so I can upload it before uh the posting date. Um so it did gives me this buffer of like, I need to have this done by this time. There were times when I didn't have an editor that I was there days I put up episodes that went up on Monday that I finished editing at like 8 a.m. on Monday. It was like this is past when I should have this done, but this is what's going. Here's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Yeah, I can relate to that. And so there is like some aspect of like, okay, I need to be writing Vs this time. I need to be doing this. I don't have it specifically in my calendar, but I know like this is when this needs to happen for these next steps to happen, and that kind of helps build that routine. Gotcha. Um, and then also have this uh forced routine on me, uh, just from the fact that I have kids where I'm like, they have to go to school, so I have to get up, get them ready, and then depending on, you know, it's like, oh, this one has choir practice, and this one needs to wants to take the bus today, and this then you know, after school activities and all that. So that like creates this like scaffolding for the rest of my day that I build my schedule around. I'm like, as much as I love my podcasts, these are the kids are the most important things, and uh, so I have to have that that's always the priority. And so building from there and being like, okay, now I know because of what I learned from doing the league, I do not work when my family it's family time. Like I don't look at email, I don't do any of that stuff. Uh awesome when my kids are home. Uh partially just because I get would get frustrated if like I'm like I don't like getting interrupted and kids uh that this was pandemic problem being like, okay, I need to find times to work when they're not doing other things. Yeah. But uh yeah, it's like I'm like, I can't be the parent I want to be if I'm trying to work while the kids are around, so I just don't. So yeah, so then I have this like, okay, then that means there are from when they leave for school till they get home, that's time that I am allowed to work, and time that I can do all the other things I need to do in life, laundry, grocery shopping, oh god, and stuff of that, all the nightmare stuff.

unknown 16:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

And so I'm like, okay, I have to build in when do these things happen? Um, there's and I I I really like having that scaffolding that's kind of forced upon me. I don't, I'm like, what am I gonna do when my kids graduate and I'm have my time all to myself? Like, well, maybe I will have baked enough as an adult that I can figure it out. We'll see. I'm still cooking.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Uh you're still in the oven. Well, so like some of these I know this isn't gonna be a necessarily a routine question, more of a structure schedules question, but uh your kids go to school. Now you're in now you're in the pocket of you can do work or you can do uh house stuff or what you can do stuff. How do you get on during that time? Do you schedule stuff or do you wing it?

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Um both. I I prefer to schedule things because as much as I can, especially with like so I'm doing the podcast stuff, I doing interviews. This has to be on my calendar because otherwise I will not be there. Uh so I do schedule as much stuff on my calendar as stuff. I will uh been sick for the last couple weeks, so I have not been doing my daily schedule. I like saw saw it over. I'm like, that is old. That that's you know, for January schedule, that's not February. So um, but yeah, I try to write down like because of time blindness, we have this like false sense of how much we can get done during a day.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

And so if I like time block out and put in times of when I'm going to do things, it's like, okay, well then that kind of gets I'm like, oh I can't really I can't, you know, write for four hours and record an hour podcast and do laundry and do dishes and go work out for a while. And I'm like, oh, I have a schedule, I I want to do 12 hours worth of things, and it wouldn't even like like I said, write for four hours. That would never happen. I would never be able to have my brain work like that.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

But it made a nice little rectangle, right? In your scal in your calendar, like there's a rectangle, there's a rectangle. Look at all these time blocks.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Yeah, yeah. But so I do time block, and then I can see this is when stuff will fit in, and also trying to build uh accountability around those things, you know, being like either do uh you know group accountability or do something like you know, some uh focus one-on-one or groove or whatever kind of thing where it's like one-on-one.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Oh, the body double deals, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

And uh I am I'm mad about how effective doing that kind of accountability is because it feels like I'm like, really? I have to go jump on a Zoom call and I'm gonna do work. Oh I'll just sit here and do it, and then like an hour later, like, I did not do anything, and I know if I had gone on, I would have done stuff and I get on and I do it, and I'm like, why is this working?

SPEAKER_01 19:01

I'll preach that all day long. I that's what we do in our community. It's like yeah, the body doubling is literally such a game changer for us, and and also I was late to the game on body doubling. I I was I had a chip on my shoulder about it. I don't I don't need to I don't want to need anybody to have to sit there, but I don't man, it it's genius.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah, I'm I still have the chip on my shoulder, but I I use it because I know it's effective. I'm just like I'm mad about it. I'm like, brain, just do what I tell you. Yeah, sit down and concentrate. And it's like, no, you're not in charge of me. And I'm like, you're not in charge of you, and I'm not in charge of you. Who's driving this boat?

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Well, okay, to circle back to routines here. That I also have an issue, the same issue with routines, in terms of uh I know that they're helpful for me, especially when I'm doing them. And yet there is such an inner tantrum that happens when I try to um to add something. Like right now, I've added uh I'll just share mine real quick, and then I'll I want to um uh see where you're at with your stuff. But like in the morning, I was snoozing for the I I'd wake up at six, snooze for an hour, and then I have to get up to take Aleister to school, right? I have to make him breakfast and take him to school. That whole parenting thing, right? Yeah, and it is a deadline and it is great, wonderful, but there's stuff I want to do. I wasn't doing it. So for me, I was the routine I was starting to do baby routines, and I added, I'm gonna wake up at 6:30, but I'm I have to get out of bed. There's no snoozing allowed. So that's just one little baby step. But even that, I I can feel my body uh like uh just go back to bed. Do you have either like a morning routine or an evening routine um that you like or that you would like? Or how is what is your life experience with that stuff?

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Uh I do a lot of like getting so you know, like I'll put my kids to bed, um, and then I'll either do like some video games or watch some TV with my wife, um maybe with the occasional doing some other things in the evening, like go into a game night or something. But on like the regular nights, it would be just do a little bit of some light activity. I'm not trying to work then or anything. And then at 9 30, being like, this is my cutoff. I have to stop whatever I'm doing, go upstairs, or w take the dogs out, get them settled for the night, all tucked in, little jerks who woke me up at five thirty this morning. Uh and uh They don't deserve it, but you're doing it anyway 'cause you love them. Yeah, uh, and then but yeah, go up take a shower, um and um Because I have sensory issues and I can't go to sleep if I don't take a shower. Doesn't have to be a long one, it could be like two minutes, just like done. Uh, but has to happen. And then uh do some reading, uh, either like some stretching and doing some like some fiction reading, and then write to bed and hopefully asleep by 10 30, 11.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Dude, that's brilliant. I have a couple of questions about sensory issue and video games. Uh, first of all, what video game do you play? I think everybody any person should be obligated to say what their video game is.

unknown 22:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Um, I've played a lot of Mega Man recently. Um Mega Man Nintendo original. Uh I just they they have uh all these like legacy collections on Steam now. What? Um, so I've been uh doing that on the Steam Deck, and then also my friend and I are doing uh Enshrode. Okay, it's like a crafting survival. So that's awesome. Okay, cool. Feels kind of like Breath of the Wild.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Uh oh wow, okay. I'm kind of a dork for that stuff, so I'm like, I'm I'm always interested. What are you playing? Um the uh the other thing is I'm just personally fascinated by the sensory issue. What is it? It means like you can feel your body or the dirt on your body, or is it feel like um I know a ton of people are gonna relate to this?

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Yeah, I feel like I'm I will get into bed. Like, so if I don't shower, I will get into bed and I will lie there and I will be so uncomfortable with feeling like sweat or dirt or just that I'm like my brain's like I I have to go take a quick shower to just rinse that off. Then I mean and then I get I mean I get in bed, I use a weighted blanket as well. That's another sensory thing, which um I find is uh really great for giving my brain a little extra stimulation to go to sleep. Okay. Um, which can be uh a lot of people have like, oh, we should go down to zero stimulation for sleep, and that's not quite how our brains work. It needs we need a little bit more with ADHD to get to sleep, and that can help be helpful. Not all that's so just a tiny bit more, and then it helps us engage in relaxation. Oh, that's super interesting. It's like uh when we like are trying to talk and we're like, oh, I need a fidget and to hold, and it's like, oh, the just having that extra little stimulation lets me focus on the conversation instead. Um I love how we're both playing with something. Um, I have somebody I always try to keep fidgets around uh for when I'm podcasting because and yeah, specifically quiet fidgets, because I'm like, oh, if I could get this thing in like, oh, this thing's super loud, I cannot have that as podcast fidget.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Yeah, yeah. That's how I have this. It's like a little this is actually my fidget right now. It's like a one day at a time um coin. It's I don't know where I got it from, but it's uh um, it wasn't from actually a quick group, but I just so I believe in that so heartedly. Like, what are you doing today? What is today about? Um, that's so snakey thing. And you have a snake. If you guys could see us now or some ADHD, or do I have any? Oh, this is my other one. I got a mustache, but this this wouldn't work well for talking. Um, I lost my train. I thought I was gonna, I'm really fascinated by your nighttime routine. My girlfriend uses a weighted blanket, and I think those things are intense, they are so freaking heavy. Um, I hear they're good for like anxiety type stuff. Now, is this a routine that you do without fail every night? Are you great at it? Or is that your ideal, but you are subject to the typical ADHD? Like, oh, but you know, normally I'm doom scrolling, or normally this.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Have you got your I forgot to I don't take my phone upstairs with me either. I plug that in downstairs. Uh so that's genius. Uh, because I um have other alarms upstairs so that I can like I have a watch that I use for my alarm instead, because uh I do not I do not trust myself with my phone, even though I have almost everything taken off of it. I do not like I'm like I'll just be like, oh it's time for bed. Well, time to read the Wikipedia about Mega Man, and then like, oh, I wonder what the the story with the character role is. Let's find out. I'm like, no, I don't need to do that before bed, and or you know, be like, uh before I had gotten social media off. It's like, yeah, I've never scrolled something on social media that has made me go, well, I'm glad I saw that before I went to sleep, and now I'm ready to it's calm me down and gotten me ready to go off to Dreamland. So that's not how social media works. Social media is a uh engagement machine, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

It's meant to keep you going and going. Yeah, for real. Okay, so your nighttime is locked in. That's awesome. I'm working on mine, it's not quite locked in yet.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

But um it is interesting though, like when I have uh like say my wife is out of town, that routine is so much harder, even though I'm the one that like when it's time to go to bed, I'm like, hey, let's it's head up soon. It's not like her like engaging it, but if she's like out of town, I'm like, well, my brain is like, well, we don't have to do that routine anymore because things are different. Yeah, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

For for me, sometimes uh everything goes to hell. I I I don't know if I mentioned this when we talked last time. Um I have uh um depressive disorder, that's one of my diagnosis. Um, and everything goes to hell when uh when I sink. So it would be like all routines are out the door. So I'm starting to, you know, I'm I'm coming out of my last one, but it was like now I'm I'm starting to add uh routine type stuff into the mix. It doesn't sound fun talking about routines. What is the what what's the shitty side of it for you?

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Well, so I was uh thinking about this recently because I was having a conversation, I was doing uh talking to uh meditation teacher and I was they were asking me, like, oh yeah, what have you done for meditation? I was like, Oh, I used to do all this stuff, and uh then I was like, and then I stopped because I changed my gym and I used to meditate at my gym, and then I just never started again because that of that change. And I was like, oh man, that's huh. That's self-awareness right there. It was this like I'm like, habit stacking is a great way to like get you to add habits and like build that routine, but it's this dark side is like, oh, when things change, if you're not really cognizant of like, oh, this is going to have this ripple effect on these other things, because I was like, oh well, I'll just meditate at this other time, but it didn't like that didn't work as well, and so I just didn't yeah, didn't put it back in. And oh man, um, or like, yeah, my wife is out of town, and now things are different, and so now this routine fell apart, even though the only part of the routine that fell apart was me telling her that it was time for us to go to bed.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

That's the only thing that changed. Yeah, it's so funny, dude.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Uh, because it's like I'm like, yeah, I'm like, she's always up to watch another episode of the thing, and I'm like, well, we should probably go to bed because I mean, partially because I'm the one that gets up with the kids, and so I'm like, we should really go to bed because I have to get up with the kids. Uh but it's yeah, it's one of those things where it's like, oh, small changes to the beginning of the routine can like throw off the rest of the routine. And so that's kind of like the dark part of it, where it's like, I while I do love the routine, like so uh another great example is for a lot of people I'm sure deal with is they take their medication at a specific time in the morning, um, or even like coffee, and then something happens in the morning, and then they don't do that part. Like I I I've been amazed where I'm like, I feel like I should I'm kind of the person that would be coffee has to happen every day. But uh, and most mornings I do have coffee, but if I can just forget that I was supposed to do that, and because you know it's like, oh, this week we had a late start because of snow, and um, yeah, I just didn't make coffee because we changed we were doing different things in the morning, and then like later in the day, I'm like, man, I'm really tired. Oh, I never had coffee. Why didn't I have coffee?

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Yeah, because I I would do that with uh I got in this habit of every morning I have an omelet. I would make an omelet every morning, and that's when I would take my vitamins, take my blood pressure medicine. Um, and uh if I didn't have an omelet, I would like if for some reason I was out of eggs or something and I didn't, I just had a banana or whatever, I would go the whole day and be like, oh shit, I forgot my blood pressure medicine. Because it wasn't it wasn't attached to the omelet. The omelet was the anchor for everything.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Yeah. So yeah, one way to really get around this though is to have good location-based reminders. Because that's often how we need our reminders are like through location, like, okay, when I'm at the counter, I need this. When I get to the house, I need to do these things. So I think location-based are often good, uh, often better than time-based. Um so uh, which you uh there are like some like uh phone apps you can do that will do location stuff. Um, like just like I mean, even like the uh regular like Apple like reminder app, you can just be like, remind me to do this when I get home. Um I wish it would do I what I would know is when you're where you're at, it'll tell you shut up. Our phones track us all the time. Uh what that I did not know. Oh, yeah, it's a great like it's I I love like um when I had an office, I'd be like, When it remind me when I get to work, two that I need to call so and so, and then like I I wish it was a little bit more exact and I could put a delay on it because I'd love to it more to be like remind me 10 minutes after I get to work to call so and so. Uh, because I'm not because it will be like I'm like parking and was like, you needed to call that person. I'm like, uh the way I got around it though, it'd be like remind me when I get to work that I need to create a reminder for 10 minutes to remind me to create a reminder.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

It can't it or like with the with the advent of AI and things like that, can't it do that? Or you'd be like, I want you to do this when this happens.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Yeah, it's uh you could probably do shortcuts for it now. I don't when I was playing with it years ago, it was not a feature, but I bet you could probably figure out shortcuts to make that happen now.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Um rabbit hole. Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Yeah, but yeah, the location-based reminders I think are great. Um, but also just like oh yeah, when you know, like have physical reminders that are not going to become part of the background are great. Like sticky notes are can be okay, but then you know, like I'm like I've had this sticky note on my computer here for three weeks, and I have not done those things, even though they would not take long to do. Um they're properly externalized in front of your face. Yeah, because I've like oh yeah, sticky notes, like that one that I have not done. Great, yeah, super. Uh or uh I also like using reminders that are um sticky in different ways. Uh, I have uh this app called alarmed that I can that has like a feature called Nag Me that will remind me to take my medication. And then unless I turn this alarm off, it'll like it'll like just play its little chime because I don't want it to be super invasive. And then unless I like go into the app and turn the alarm off, it will remind me every five minutes, it'll like chime again five minutes later until uh for that one. I have it, I it does like six times. Uh, but you could do it like for like important stuff to never stop, just be like wow, every minute, just keep going, or you know, like every like uh my garbage day, like every half hour tell me to remind me to take out the garbage until I for like two hours. For two hours.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Well, it's every half hour. I want you to be the most annoying assistant ever and just keep tapping me on the shoulder, hey, hey, hey, you gotta go do a thing.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Well, it's because it's often like because a lot of times when we get our reminders, we can't do anything about them. And then we're like the moment, right? Yeah. We're like, oh, I need to do this, and then it's like, well, I can't like I can't go and take the garbage out because I'm at John's house, uh, but I'll be home in two hours, or you know, like I'll be home in an hour. And so then it'll be like, oh yeah, okay, this is gonna go off again in an hour. And so I'm like, okay, this is more useful that I can have like big time. This is gonna not just remind me once, it's gonna remind me at a more convenient time.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Yeah, and it doesn't give you an additional task where it's like if it goes off your John's, then you would probably have to go, I'm at John's, I'm gonna do a thing and set a new alarm. And if you were following the ADHD rules or whatever, yeah. Of of being effective at dealing with your thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yeah. Although, like sometimes dealing with stuff in the time is like such a hazard where I'm like, oh yeah, I'm gonna do this at this time, and then be like, you know, you have the like whole like cascade of events of like, oh, well, I looked at my phone and now I got reminded that I also have to send this email and that you know, like I should do that right now because that's takes the only, you know, it only takes me 30 seconds, and you know, an hour later, like, oh, I forgot I was at this party. And uh that was not not cool of me.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yeah, but do you have any kind of a thing for that you use when you're um uh when you're dealing with stuff like that? When you go, okay, or is it just a forgiveness thing or uh like hey, I'm gonna be cool with myself. Yeah. Yeah, I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that happened.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Yeah, a lot of times, I mean, well, so that yeah, that's why I use this thing to be like, yeah, just keep reminding me. Um, and also like uh I can also just be like when I do it, like just click a button that's like uh delay the notification. Um be like I forget what it's called, but it's like yeah, it's just a delay on the notification. I'm like, okay, just give me this again in half an hour. Yeah, don't remind me now. Um and but yeah, a lot of like forgiveness things was just because it's a lot of I'm like, yeah, it it in the big big scheme schema thing, it doesn't matter um if I didn't get to something that at the moment I wanted it to. I don't want to make that the habit of not doing the thing, but I don't want to beat myself up over it either.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yep, agreed. My experience uh with my own ADHD, with other people that I know with ADHD, we get to be very perfectionistic, we get to be very big with um this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna wake up at five, I'm gonna meditate, and then I'm gonna journal for 30 minutes, and then I'm gonna drink water, do some exercise, and then I'll do some push-ups, and then I and it's this huge, amazing, just amazing morning routine that's um unrealistic uh to go from zero to that. But in general, like a morning routine, um do you think that they are beneficial? Do you think it's a lot of too much hard work? Um, what are your thoughts on that? I personally don't have a lot of a morning routine right now, just because um I need to focus so much on what I'm doing with my kids, but um, and it's just if I want to get out the door, I have to you're like I'm I gotta get out the door, and that is the A number one thing.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Yeah, and it well, because I'm like, I can I'm gonna get them out the door and then I can do what I need to do for myself. Um, yeah. Okay, I I I have the the privilege of like working from home and being like having that time, and I can do that. Um uh but I there are some benefits to a morning routine, but I do think we can um I was just talking to someone else about this. There's this like optimized optimization trap where we try to optimize ourselves so much that we can't we into paralysis, and it's yeah, that that's not useful either. Um, and so I feel like just just do uh if you want to have a morning routine, do a little thing, see how it does like and then like evaluate, you know, do it for a couple weeks. Does this feel good? Do I like doing this? Do I feel like maybe I want to have more going on? And if that's the and you can also have the answer, like, no, this feels good, and I don't want to do more. Well, it's good to have a to-do list, it's also good to have a not-to-do list and be like, I don't have to do all I can't do all the things, so there are things I'm not going to do. Like, you know, like okay, meditation is a super good habit to have, but there is no way I'm going to move it into my calendar right now. It's going to go into my not to-do list. That's fine. One of the only episodes I've written so far this year has been about it's okay to give up your new year's resolutions. Uh, because like, yeah, these things are good for you, but not if it's costing you your mental health to try and maintain them.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yeah. Though, don't you find though, I I think this speaks to the the optimization thing as well, is we're very good at even starting small and then going, oh wow, I just succeeded at this small thing. Therefore, I'm gonna incorporate my entire day into this because I've seen success in this little thing. We can put such perfectionistic, massive um expectations on ourselves, and which is uh, I don't know where I was going with that, but it I yeah, I see this a lot, and especially like with um with morning routine type stuff and evening routine type stuff. But if we're not debilitated, then there's maybe no need.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Yeah, well, so like I have this written on my note here, uh because I was like, Oh, I want to work on something, so I'm just gonna, but and then I was like thinking about the I'm I'm I'm getting in too deep. So I'm just gonna write what was in my head, it uh in general terms was the amazing plan to turn everything negative in my life around and have fun while doing it and never get stressed out from the process. And oh wow, I was like, I just wrote that down because I'm like, that's that's not realistic. Like and writing it down, I'm like, okay, yeah, if I write this down as the title, then I know that's what's in my head, like because it's like I want to do all these things and I want to do this, and it's it's not gonna happen, especially with everything going on in the world right now. Like, there's too much, like while I want to make good changes for myself, I need to be realistic for what I am capable of, what I will stick with. Because um, yeah, we can get into that trap of like, I'm gonna make all these plans that I'm not gonna follow through with, but at the time, it really feels like I'm going to.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Yeah. You know, I what this is kind of making me think of here is that uh a routine is a thing that could be necessary, or let's say beneficial. If there's an aspect of your life or our lives that is somewhat um debilitated, or maybe I'm finding that I don't have any energy at all during the day. And a solution to that would be to do like 20 minutes of walking in the morning or getting my heart rate up or whatever the doctor's trying to tell me I have to do. So then spawns the idea of a routine of well, getting in the routine of waking up and getting the heart rate going could help the alleviate the debilitating part of your life. Yeah, if you're finding yourself going through an entire day and there's no there's nothing debilitating you, there's no problems. If our ADHD is managed, if our uh for as good enough, right, or or managed enough, then what is there to do? What is there to be done? It just doesn't seem like we uh in that case we wouldn't need a routine.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Yeah. Well, so what I often like to think about and what I tried to mention earlier too is this idea of scaffolding my day. Like it is I'm building this very basic structure of how my day is going to go, and then fitting things in where uh they can go based on how I'm feeling that day. Personally, I do very poorly with the like never miss a day mentality um because it is while I'm good at it most of the time, once something happens, I will never have the motivation again. Like I remember probably a decade ago doing Duolingo and being like, oh yeah, I have this like year and a half streak going, and they had a server error, and one of my days didn't count, and I never did it again. Oh no, they even like they fixed it like two days later, like, oh yeah, you we were restored street. I didn't care. Um motivation gone. That was one where it's like, oh, it was such a low barrier to entry. And I mean, I probably I don't remember anything I learned in that thing. Uh you don't remember the language that you were learning? No, I don't even know which one I was doing. I was maybe doing I was probably doing Spanish or Japanese, and I don't remember which one. I mean, it's probably because I know some uh enough to like get by, and so it's like, well, I did something, and so I was like, Oh, but yeah, when you know, like for much smaller. Things like, oh, I've done this great for a week and then I missed a day and then I don't feel like doing it again. So I'm like, okay, so this particular tool is not a good tool for me. Um, even though I know it's a great tool for a lot of people, and then can be like, oh yeah, can the they have the motivation to get back up on the horse when they mess up. I'm like, yeah, that's not there for me. And I do think that's also a good point about tools in general, is that like just because something works for someone doesn't mean it works for everyone. And uh for certain things, I'm sure I'll probably pick up the never miss a day or daisy chain or whatever method again, because they're I think they're it's good for certain things, but for most habit things for me, it's not the way I need to go, even though I'm like get an ad on Facebook for like be like this habit tracker. I'm like, oh, that looks really cool. I want that. I'm like, no, I'm like, oh my god, so much.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

You know, like a huge part of our community, and I I might have told you about this, is the uh daily accountability. It's that thing that you're talking about, and it's a split, right? Some people are all about it, and some people are like it's a demotivator. I personally like the idea of learning from the demotivators, right? So it'd be like if uh that's what I would I would push back on. I would just be like, uh now I'm curious. And so just for me, it's it's about um, so then what does it take to get going back? Or like what would it take to get you back on Duolingo? That's where I I I dork out on that stuff, but going solo on habit track-y stuff, I fail at every time. I it has to be I have a buddy that I go walking with, I have to have some kind of accountability buddy, or I'm like, it won't happen.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Yeah, I mean, I for me it's just yeah, it's a really the scaffolding seeing making it be a possibility in my day and then working on lowering the resistance to doing the thing I want to do as much as possible. Like if I want to drink more water, okay, well then I just need to always have water nearby that I can just drink. And it's like I I will just do that. It's like if I want to eat more vegetables, have more fresh vegetables in my house. If I want to go on a walk more, make it so that I have it's easy to go on walks. Like it, like just and then also reverse. If I want to do less of something, how can I increase the resistance? So I'm like, oh, I'm playing too many video games on my switch or whatever. Okay, well, instead of leaving it on my desk, I'm gonna put it away, like in a drawer. And then it's like, oh, just that little extra resistance, like, oh yeah, that is enough to and it's like, oh yeah, the if I like, oh, I want to I'll keep the candy in the cold garage rather than in the warm pantry. And then it's like, well, I don't want the cold candy because it's cold. I don't want to go out to the garage. It's there, and I could have it if I really wanted it, but and I love those phrases, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

The they're like anchor comments to where it if if I'm finding something that I I want to do, like the water, that that phrase lower the resistance it is an easy thing to think and then come up with a solution for in the moment. I that's awesome. Um I I pulled the my email app off my phone. And and now I could still check my email on my phone if I went to Safari and logged in, but there's a too much resistance, there's enough steps that it uh I don't want to do it. Um I forgot the question. I I had a question for you about that about lowering the resistance. Oh, yes, uh, I would love your thoughts on this. I hear about this a lot with people, and I have my opinion about it, but I'm I I feel like we have this tendency to want everything to connect perfectly, and then we have permission to move forward on a thing. Like we need we need to be able to grasp it before we move forward on it. And so much of especially in the productivity space or right where you're like, it's gonna be uncomfortable, things are gonna be shitty feeling, and they're not gonna be interesting. Like with our we have interest-wired brains and we want to do important things, but we're waiting for it to lock in before we act. What is your what are your views on that? I I'm and this is just me being curious. Um, and how do you deal with those things? We're like, they're shitty, but you still gotta do it.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

First thought what uh has come from borrowing another phrase, uh, this time from Brene Brown is to embrace the messy middle. Um because I I do I find having like something like to have in your brain, like, oh, I'm gonna embrace the messy middle, like is very helpful for like when things are hard and being like, Yeah, they're hard. Pretending they're not doesn't ever help me. And being like, Oh yeah, doing the dishes is not hard, but it is hard for me to get myself to do.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

And being like, okay, so if I acknowledging that part, like I'm I'm I'm in the suck, and I just I'm in the suck, yes, yeah. And I'm like, okay, okay, well, that's that's where I am, you know. Like uh, or you know, it's like you go you go with Nike and then you uh add it race, so it's like just do it anyway. Oh like, oh, okay, yeah, just do it anyway because often that is that is what we need, where we're just like, I don't want to do this, and you're like, and I'm like, yeah, I don't want to do this, but I'm going to because that's what needs to happen. Or, you know, like that's what the more analytical, better version of myself wants to happen. You know, I'm like, oh, I'm really tired and I don't want to make dinner, but you know, like I don't want to set that example for my kids that we're just gonna have snack dinner all the time because they don't like it and I don't like it, and but you know, it's okay to have occasionally, but I need to not make that a habit for all the time. So yeah, so we're gonna I'm gonna just get up and make I'm gonna lower resistance, I'm gonna make the easy dinner tonight. We're just gonna have pasta and whatever. It's gonna just that's awesome. I'm just boiling water and tossing noodles in and cutting up some vegetables, it'll be fine.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

Yeah, it's almost like so. What is the ADHD way to just do a thing? And even though, um, like even though it sucks, even though we know it's awful, um, I'm fascinated by that stuff. Like, what does it take for a person, an ADHD person to do a normie thing?

SPEAKER_00 50:32

Like that, but yeah, and I think just that it's so important that we acknowledge that it's like when we try to dismiss something being hard or that we don't want to do it, it makes it so much harder when we're like, Well, I should want to do it. I'm like, Well, I don't care that I should want to do it, I don't want to do it, and I'm gonna do it anyways because I it's gotta happen. Oh, that's so interesting.

SPEAKER_01 50:56

Yeah, that the shame that comes with I should be able to do this, or or or like I'm gonna wait until the the light flickers, I'm gonna find the motivation for it, or I'm gonna find the excitement for it. And I'm like, I will never ever find the excitement for dishes. It's I have come to know that about myself. It is hell on earth, and I hate it.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Yeah, and it's like yeah, it's so many cleaning tests. Like nobody likes doing those. How can I how can I make this something that while I don't want to do, I can still bear to do it's like, oh, I'm gonna listen to music or a podcast, or yeah, you know, um, oh, you know what?

SPEAKER_01 51:35

Yeah, you're cleaning if only people could see that.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Yeah, he's got one of those things that what how do you describe it? Uh arm extender? Uh long grabber? Garbage picker upper thingy for the beach or the the you arm extender. Um but yeah, it's just like a little uh oh, it's a grabber tool. That's what it's called. A grabber tool. Um walking around my house and picking up stuff off the floor. I don't have to bend over, I can just makes it more interesting, makes it easy. I think it probably funds it up a little bit too, right? Yeah, it oh, it definitely does. Uh I can think we can fun stuff up. But hey, you want to go pick up the backyard and give them one of those? And they're like, Yeah, and I'm like, let's go. Yeah. Um like I had to remember seeing that tip online and being like, Really? But I had one of these for like a garbage pickup, and and and I had like hurt my back, and I was like, I'm gonna go use this thing to pick stuff up because I can't lean over right now. And I'm like, Oh, that was so much easier. Why haven't I been doing this? And I think I mean that is one of the funny things was like a lot of ADHD tools were like, I don't need that, and then it's like, well, that was way better.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

Turns out, turns out I did, and then you'll you'll use it for a good five months, and then it'll be nothing again.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

It'll be well that this one has been part of my rotation. It has been I use it so much I got a second one, one for upstairs, one for downstairs. That's awesome. It's it's just as useful as have like it is just as important as having a broom. Um wow, it may because I might have to go get one. Yeah, I mean it's it's it looks it works because I have young kids and my dogs also love like it's great for dog toys because they they like my uh my cheweenie uh your cheweenie only. Yeah, she she she she has anxiety, and so she'll hold a little toy in her mouth while she walks around, and then she'll forget it, and so then she'll get a new one, and so then they're all over. Like this is also what happens in the yard and they get rained on and they're super wet. And I'm like, so the the the grabber is great for getting the wet ones out of the yard and throwing them in the laundry. But yeah, it's like nice, but yeah, so I'll have all this like there's a if you don't have a lot of stuff on your floor, probably not as useful, but it's great for picking up toys and dog toys.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

And oh, I would use it for the stuff on my uh bookshelves, the nightstands. I I I clutter coffee tables. I'll clutter.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

Oh, oh, and I also I um it's also great for like I hang stuff up with it, like we have like yes, little like birthday banners and stuff, and I'll be like, Oh yeah, I can I can reach that with this. My wife's like, You're tall enough already. I'm like, Yes, but this is even easier.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Like, no, no, no, no, no, but no, no, no. Click click. Yeah, oh my god, that's fun. Well, William, this is I could probably just shoot the shit with you for a long time, but we are pushing to the end, and I usually have a short podcast episode, but we we did a good long ramble. Uh, I appreciate you coming on the show and was like spending time.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Yeah, well, thank you for having me. I had a good time.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

Yeah, you're you're fun, and uh so I will let people know how to find you on the in the show notes, but it's hacking your adhd is your podcast. Everybody probably already knows about it, but is there other places where people reach you or connect with you or yeah?

SPEAKER_00 55:05

So the website's hacking your adhd.com, uh now just now on YouTube, and so it's uh at Hacking Your ADHD. Right on, okay. Yeah, uh just had a AMA last week, so I'm gonna try and do a couple of those throughout the year. So we'll have another AMA. Just ask me anything, but yeah, so the and then the video game is on the YouTube channel. Um and then I'm also on Blue Sky, uh uh also at Hacking Radio H D.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

Okay, you know what? Well, I'll just put all those in the show notes. So if you guys want to connect with William in those ways, go for it. And yeah, man, thanks uh again for coming out. Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Yeah, awesome. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

What an awesome guy. That was such a fun talk. And yes, I did actually order the grabber reacher toy, uh, the grabber, uh, the reachy toy, the picker upper toy. I have I by the time you are listening to this podcast, I own it. It is in my house, and I guarantee you I'm having a great time with it. It is, or shall I say, it will be my shiny fun, happy toy. Alistair and I are probably absolutely gonna gamify it somehow. Maybe he's actually gonna want to pick up. Hmm. Could make chores fun. Mm-hmm. Please do yourselves a favor and head over to Hacking Your ADHD. Follow him on his socials. Follow him on all his socies. Grab his newsletter while you're at it. Oh my god, he's a fantastic scribe, writer, author. What do you got? Author. Writer? Right. Writer sounds like a weird word at the moment. Writer. Roter, reader, writer. He's a guy that puts words to the page with proficiency. Seek him out. Links are in the show notes. Um, and always, you guys, I hope you have a fantastic week. And I will talk to you later.