Two partners in love and architecture learn that building a life together often means ditching the plans. This episode features Charlotte and Peter Smith, Co-Founders of Designsmiths.
Two partners in love and architecture learn that building a life together often means ditching the plans. This episode features Charlotte and Peter Smith, Co-Founders of Designsmiths.
I’ll let you in on a little secret… I’m not always great at my job.
In fact, sometimes an interview goes so badly…
that afterwards… people say stuff like this…
[01:07:51] I got home and I said, Charlotte, no matter what you hear, I love you, I love our family, I'm happy. And then I said it was nothing like I expected.
[01:07:08] it was so traumatic. We were both just like shell-shocked.
Today… second chances.
I’m Tommy Andres and this is Creative Coast.
MUSIC POST/SLOW FADE
In this podcast we’ve been profiling creative entrepreneurs who live in Northern Michigan.
And we’ve made the series during lockdown so we couldn’t meet any of our interviewees in person.
Instead we sent them a microphone to record themselves and then we did the interviews over Zoom.
The process wasn’t ideal but it mostly worked.
Until that is... our interview with Charlotte and Peter Smith… Architects and owners of the DesignSmiths studio in Traverse City.
We interviewed Peter and Charlotte separately…
And when they emailed us their audio there was a problem. Actually, several problems.
Peter had apparently done his interview below a really noisy fan … while just outside a tree was being cut down with a chainsaw.
18’30”
FAN + tree being cut down FX
When it was Charlotte’s turn she – thankfully – turned off the fan.
50’31” FAN TURNS OFF
But then turned on some music.
58’15” MUSIC
But it wasn’t just the audio quality … Charlotte told us afterwards that she and Peter had thought the interviews were going to be about architecture...
And they were totally blindsided by the fact that we wanted to know about them – how they met, how they fell in love and what their lives are like together.
This couple doesn’t really do nostalgia.
But that’s actually kind of great.
Sometimes you do interviews and people give you well-rehearsed stories.
Not Peter and Charlotte.
There was something so authentic about their story because... quite frankly they couldn’t remember a lot of it…
And even when they did…
They often disagreed about the details.
Anyway… I’m getting ahead of myself.
Basically, between the fan and the tree and the music…
The audio quality was not usable...
And it meant we had to do the interview all over again.
But this time lockdown restrictions had eased...
So a silver lining… I got to meet the couple in the flesh.
It’s the only interview from the whole series I got to do in person.
And I was excited for a second chance to grill them.
Tommy: Check one two check one two check one two check. OK cool.
On the corner of Elmwood and Randolph streets in downtown Traverse City…
There’s this old gray block building with tall black-framed windows and a bright red door.
It looks sort of like an 8-bit smiley face with two windows upstairs for eyes.
That’s where I met Charlotte and Peter Smith and we settled in for round two…
and I started by asking them about round one.
[00:00:00] The very first question I asked you was, how did you two meet or something along that line maybe. When was the first time you saw each other I think was the very first question I asked and you couldn't answer it, but now you've had months to think about it. I’m assuming you’ve put your you put your heads together. You've come up with your story. LAUGH
[00:00:21] no offense to you or anything, but I honestly, we we were a little traumatized by the first one and we've kind of blocked it out and didn't didn't we didn't revisit it. We probably should have now that we're here again.
[00:00:45] So tell us the origin story. Since you work together, since you you've made your lives together, where and when did you first meet? Let's try this again. Take two.
[00:00:52] We first met at the University of Colorado in architecture studio. We started … Dating is … you know, I mean, it's it's college ... you don't really date in college I don't feel.
Thankfully Charlotte remembers a little bit more about those early days.
[01:03:43] I remember we were in the same class and he said nothing for like six or seven weeks. And I was very curious about that, as someone who likes to chat I was like who is that that kid that doesn't talk? And I would notice that you'd come in with a mountain bike and like skis like you’d come in from skiing that day.
[01:04:15] Wait would like bring your skis in into the lab?
[01:04:23] I had the hokey pass to Eldora and I'd come in …I probably was running late because the bus wasn't always on time and I would ride my mountain bike with my skis strapped to my backpack in my snow pants and everything. And sometimes I didn't have time to go home.
[01:05:23] So do you remember going up and talking to him for the first time or like what?
[01:05:29] I mean, it was so long ago.
[01:04:46] I think I just loved the mystery and I still do because he … one of my friends is like he doesn't say much and I was like I know isn’t it great! LAUGH.
START MUSIC
There were only around 10 students in their architecture class and the workload was heavy. So Charlotte and Peter spent a lot of time together. And while in some ways they’re very different – Charlotte as talkative as Peter is quiet – it was a meeting of minds. They both loved the same things: museums, the outdoors and of course … design.
Peter had grown up in Ann Arbor, Michigan and as a kid he loved to draw, build forts and make things out of Legos.
From an early age his family could see what he couldn’t.
[00:04:25] because my because my grandfather was a landscape architect, my other grandfather was mathematically inclined. And I liked to draw and build things. I was always told I was going to be an architect.
Charlotte had grown up on the other side of the country from Peter – but she too had shown an interest in the built world from an early age.
[00:42:51] I think growing up in Texas, I saw a lot of change, like severe change, quickly, like a country road turning to a five-lane highway.
So in their sophomore year Charlotte and Peter ended up in that architecture class, started hanging out … and things just ‘evolved’.
MUSIC POST
In 2003, the couple … if we’re putting a label on it … graduated from the University of Colorado... both with ambitions to become architects.
But first they wanted to travel and see all of the buildings they had studied in class.
So they headed to Europe… and spent 9 months backpacking around.
START MUSIC
[00:10:49] we hit 20 some countries and something that worked for us was a ability and an openness to go our own ways within that time. Because I say for instance wanted to spend a lot more time in Switzerland, Charlotte wanted more time in Italy. So we did. We split up and she went there for a few weeks and I did my thing and then we met back up.
They were in awe of Gaudi’s work in Barcelona ….
Amazed by The Colosseum and the Pantheon in Rome.
But it wasn’t just the buildings.
The couple loved the food and the culture … visiting museums and wandering around the plazas and piazzas.
And they also loved having their own space and doing their own thing.
That rhythm continued when the couple moved back to the states.
MUSIC CHANGE / SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT
They spent a year in California where Charlotte worked and Peter made furniture and surfed.
They both went to Australia at different times to attend the Glen Murcutt Masterclass – a world-renowned architecture programme.
They went to grad schools at different times – first Peter enrolled in the Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago and then Charlotte moved to Ann Arbor to study at the University of Michigan.
[00:12:51].And then again, true to form for us. You went to Michigan. I stayed in Chicago. And then instead of coming and spending time with me in Chicago in the summer. You went back to Australia so that we saw each other for all of a week that year maybe.
[00:14:18] It sounds like you're both sort of like on different paths almost. I mean, you're you're you're still staying in touch this whole time but are you together as a couple this whole time or is it sort of like …
[00:14:34] Pretty much.
What do you mean pretty much?!
We were together.
Yeah. We were together.
But it was like a tangle, large global time.
[00:14:55] You know we just we knew that we had to do things that are that meant a lot to us. And we did him at our own pace, in our own time.
[00:15:15] You can't be held back by a relationship and certain opportunities. So like Australia, for instance, it was like. I'm going. I'll be back. I'm sure.
We weren't so sure.
We weren't. Actually,yeah. That time we weren't. But.I think going to university was just the beginning. And then out in the field is when you do all the good stuff for sure. And the people you meet, and that's not this like planned thing.
MUSIC POST
When Charlotte graduated from U of M in 2008 she joined Peter in Chicago. The couple was finally in the same place both working as architects.
Then the recession hit. And things got interesting.
[00:29:07] I was I was working at a big firm in Chicago one of the oldest firms in the country, Halliburton Root and I was on a team that had just been awarded a job for this like a brand new university. And here we are thinking we're going to we're going to be all right.
[00:29:31] This is a great project. It's going to keep the firm moving. And what I didn't know, I'm relatively new to the whole architecture world of that scale was that immediately they stopped doing everything and started fundraising. And so that project that we thought was gonna be great was was actually.
[00:29:55] Yes, I'm sure it's I'm sure it's great for the firm right now. But it was not great for us because it went away for years and therefore so did I. And so did half the firm at the time.
Peter lost his job.
It seemed like everyone the couple knew was getting laid off or was about to get laid off.
But Charlotte – luckily – still had her job.
[00:31:07] I was working at an all-female firm and she had another office in L.A. in addition to Chicago and it were the L.A. projects that kept us afloat. Love those Hollywood people!
[00:32:01] Peter, did you think you were done with architecture at that point?
[00:32:05] I thought architecture was done with me there. At the time, there was a whole generation of young professionals who were in the threat of being the lost generation. And I was one of them. I was talking to a friend about selling mortgages in Ann Arbor. You know, at some point you've sent out hundreds of resumes and you've talked to, you know, however many different firms. And nothing happens at some point. Yeah. You start to question whether it's going to work out. And you're being you know, I mean, if it had been years without consistent work. And so not only am I. Getting frustrated, but I'm also losing pace. So, yes, I was considering changing altogether.
START MUSIC
So there were no architecture jobs...
That’s when Peter and Charlotte decided to draw up some new plans.
Growing up in Michigan, Peter’s family had a holiday home in Leland…
And he and Charlotte had visited there several times.
After one of those visits the couple learned that a shop had opened up in Leland’s popular tourist spot Fishtown.
[00:17:51] We were very much into craft. And you were toiling around with making bags. And we just loved making things.
Charlotte still had a job in Chicago, but because of the recession, the firm was spread thin.
So she went part time and the couple moved … temporarily … to Leland and opened a craft shop selling canvas bags.
the thing I didn't enjoy was everybody else was on vacation. While we were just cranking. Long days. But it was it was a fun kind of side project.
[00:19:31] But I remember doing drawings in the shop, though, too, like architecture never really stopped.
[00:19:43] We did the shop for a few summers and during one of the summers we started looking for some part time jobs or something, to earn some more and keep us in the loop.
[00:19:57] And I found a drafting gig on Craigslist for you. And I was like, hey, this sounds like. Easy cash. Just try it out. And a month later, he was offered a full-time job.
[00:35:01] I wasn't offered a full time job. I was offered full time hours on a contract basis, which is a big difference. And it was a big risk and it was one that we talked about a lot. Saying if we want to pursue architecture as a career, any more then this seems like the last good option for us.
And shortly after you were like, what if we move here? And I was like, no, whoa, no.
MUSIC POST
The job was in Traverse City and Charlotte didn’t really know the place.
She still had her job in Chicago and in fact she’d just been offered a full-time position but she wasn’t totally psyched about it.
She also wasn’t totally convinced she wanted to move full time to Michigan.
Back when they were first dating … or sort of dating … in college … Peter had not sold Michigan very well to Charlotte.
[00:21:07] one time we were bouldering in Colorado and it was a gray cold wet day.
God you always bring this up!
And Peter is like ah this makes me miss home.
Think of home!
Whatever. And I was like, where are you from? And he was like Michigan. It’s just like this all the time there and I was like that sounds horrible!
But then Peter took Charlotte to Michigan for the first time.
[00:23:35] I just stared at that big, beautiful lake and was in awe. Like and still am. That it had waves, it had islands. Like I had no idea. Even in the winter, it's like I love how it freezes. It looks like Mars and you can walk on it and it's just endless. It's nothing like I thought it would be.
She had enjoyed visiting over the years and enjoyed running the seasonal shop…
But visiting a place, even spending summers in a place, is a lot different from living there all year round. Especially in Michigan.
[00:25:02] Obviously coming from Fort Worth, you didn't have winters like you do here. Was there a part of you that was like a little nervous about settling in a place that had such severe winters?
[00:25:24] A little nervous. A lot nervous.
But Charlotte agreed to give it a go.
There was a whole notebook's worth of conditions.
[00:20:35] Yeah, I said, I'll give it two years and I need a studio space.
Those were the big two.
START MUSIC
So the couple closed the bag shop in Fishtown and moved to Traverse City.
Charlotte was still working remotely for her firm in Chicago and Peter started his new job.
And slowly the couple started to get their own clients … mostly small commissions from Peter’s family and friends.
[00:40:13] Things were getting a little bigger every time. You know, first it was like a sun room. It was a porch. And then it was an independent building.
A fellow architect and one of their mentors encouraged them to get their own business up and running.
[00:41:02] he also said, I have a wonderful family that I'm going to send your way because they want to do something quicker than I can do. And so he gave us our first client. And it’s kind of funny and fitting for the architecture world, but our first project on our own is still not built. LAUGH.
[00:41:45] Which is very common in the architecture world is, you know, a lot of our work doesn't actually get built. And that one is still not built for a lot of reasons.
But we still are in contact well with him and with that client.
And when enough work was rolling in, it was time to get going on Charlotte’s first condition: their own studio space.
They set their sights on an old grocery store in the Slabtown neighbourhood.
when we first moved here we drove by it. It was abandoned and. And, you know, our real estate agent knew the owner and sent him a letter and we never heard back.
The couple were living around the corner from the building.
[00:39:05] One day we we noticed some started clearing things out.
No it was a listing online.
[00:39:21] That we got sent a listing and I was like, oh, my God that buildings for sale.
it was like a week before we had our first kid. I was super pregnant and it was so gross in here. Like drop ceilings. It was just like I remember there was a wasp nest. There's stuff everywhere.
[00:39:43] And we were like, it's perfect and our real estate agent was like you are nuts.
[00:39:51] In hindsight, he was he was not that far off. We were nuts.
MUSIC POST
The renovation of the building would be the couple’s first big project together.
And it allowed them to define their design philosophy: preserving history without being stuck in the past, while also being respectful of the natural environment.
Like, sometimes, yes, it's appropriate to start over and build something completely new but sometimes it's not appropriate. In the case of our studio, to tear it down would have been a huge mistake.
[00:45:27] but we never wanted to make it like a time capsule. You have to still think about it futuristic but kind of have these little nods to the past.
we do not have the craftsmen or the materials to recreate what was here. But where possible we preserve it and where we can improve on it or use modern technologies or just show the contrast and the beauty of both of them. We do that as well.
The couple’s love of the outdoors and all the places they have lived and worked has also left its mark on their designs.
[00:52:11] you have to really sit with the site and figure out the best placement.
Yeah you visit the site frequently. Different times a day. If possible, different times a year. And you really you know, you get to know the place, you know, as intimately as you can.
START MUSIC
In Michigan there are of course the lakes to consider too … Charlotte and Peter have thought long and hard about how to best incorporate those amazing views into their designs.
One of our very first projects together was a master suite addition. And it's right on Lake Michigan. And everybody has these giant windows out to lake which the main house does. And it's wonderful. And our addition, which was off to the side oriented their bed not so that it faced the lake, but so that it actually faced down the coast. And so they got an entirely different perspective from their new room than they did from anywhere else in the house. And since they've they've told us that, you know, it's it's changed a lot of their, you know, kind of behaviors in the house and in how they kind of view it.
[00:51:43] And also, you know, they're lucky to have neighbors who like to do fireworks displays down the beach and it’s been really fun to climb into bed with their grandkids and have these experiences.
[00:52:45] That's an aspect of architecture I don't think most people understand that. You can really change how people look at the outside world from inside a building.
There's a time and place for big windows. There's a time, a place for small windows. There's time and place to expose everything. And, you know, there's another time to keep mystery involved.
MUSIC POST
Two years after the couple moved full time to Traverse City it was time for Charlotte’s second condition: the review. Michigan passed the test.
Initially, I didn't quite get it. [00:27:00] And the more time we spend here and the more we travel and kind of call this place home, I, I really do enjoy that we made this decision.
Peter and Charlotte are now solely working for themselves. Their company is called Design Smiths.
They have 3 boys, their own home and they walk to work.
[00:56:15] Do you consider yourselves a success at this point?
[00:56:36] No.
[00:59:11] That word success. I just feel like it's such an American thing. And I.
Don't really associate with that as like a goal … like I want to be successful!
[00:59:26] I want to look up the definition, because when I think of success I think you’re done.
This debate about success went on for a long time.
[00:59:46] Is this getting too much?
[01:00:00] No, I think this is great. The whole thing with this podcast is like people sort of evaluating themselves. And I just think it's fascinating because to me, as an outsider I would imagine there's times where you must be sitting in your backyard drinking a glass of wine after you've put your three sons to bed and they're just like, you know what … Not too bad!
START THEME
[01:01:31]
We have nice moments. But that scene you just described when we go in our backyard that's the site of our next project.
Every night we debate the backyard and the future garage and the patio and the landscaping and the plants. The style of plants the feel of the backyard. Where how long do we have to keep that play structure for the boys before we can get rid of it? Because it's in the way. Can we get a basketball hoop? Do we have enough room? What about the treehouse that we've promised them we don't have any trees in our backyard. So how do we even accomplish that? It's a never-ending cycle, but it's you know, I we we are we are in the middle in the midst of it. We're doing it.
THEME POST
To see some of Charlotte and Peter’s work go to their website designsmiths.us
Creative Coast is a podcast series brought to you by Traverse Connect…
the Grand Traverse Region’s Economic Development Organization…
and is produced by me, Tommy Andres, and Maria Byrne for our company Airloom Media.
That’s spelled A-I-R.
The music is composed by Josh Hoisington.
This podcast series is made possible thanks to generous support and funding from the Michigan Film and Digital Media Office at Michigan’s Economic Development Corporation.
You can visit Traverse Connect’s website at traverseconnect.com.
(THEME POST/FADE)