Gary Boomershine has be a full time real estate investor since 2004. He founded http://www.realestateinvestor.com in 2005 out of his own need to scale and grow his own real estate investing firm. Gary saw the vision for http://www.realestateinvestor.com noticing the glaring opportunity to leverage people, processes and technology to gain a leg up in a competitive marketplace. Gary is now joining forces with Robert Syfert to bring a top notch real estate investing CRM along with a seamless marketing follow up process. Gary currently lives in Northern California with his wife and two daughters while he continues to run his global team for RealEstateInvestor.com.
Gary Boomershine has be a full time real estate investor since 2004. He founded http://www.realestateinvestor.com in 2005 out of his own need to scale and grow his own real estate investing firm. Gary saw the vision for http://www.realestateinvestor.com noticing the glaring opportunity to leverage people, processes and technology to gain a leg up in a competitive marketplace. Gary is now joining forces with Robert Syfert to bring a top notch real estate investing CRM along with a seamless marketing follow up process. Gary currently lives in Northern California with his wife and two daughters while he continues to run his global team for RealEstateInvestor.com.
spk_0: 0:01
It's not real estate investors, entrepreneurs and agents. You're in the right place. Unlocking the secrets to real estate investing in entrepreneurship. Welcome to the Times Young vaults hosted by R. J. Bates The third years. Hey, guys, Welcome to the titanium vault. I'm your host, R J. Bates. Today I'm sitting down with Gary Boomer Shine. How you doing, man?
spk_1: 0:32
I am great, R j super excited. I know we started talking about getting me on your show in June, and we rescheduled a few times, but I'm I'm really comped up here to share some good stuff with all your loyal listeners. And yeah, I know. We prepped and talked about rental property and all kinds of good steps. I think this will be a lot of fun today.
spk_0: 0:51
Yeah, it's okay that you postpone all the way from June. You were doing important things, like taking sabbaticals to Hawaii and then, you know, important mergers and all kinds of things that we're gonna talk about. So, um, rule quick for our listeners that haven't heard you another podcast or having followed you. Just give us a brief summary. How'd you get started? Would you? How did you get started in real state.
spk_1: 1:11
Yeah, yeah. So I live outside San Francisco about 45 minutes. I grew up in a family. I just turned 50. By the way, some people call me O G. Ah, original gangster. I guess that's what Rafael Vargas. I'm gonna get a master, my with him in Mexico. And he's like, You're a little, though. Cheese. Like what is that, like original gangster. So I've been doing this business full time since 2004 on. That's actually when I burnt the ships and quit my job and my wife quit her job, we had a two month old baby, a four year old baby living in California. It's like, Let's do real estate, So I wouldn't recommend that most people I coach people away from that all the time. It's like, No, actually build your business. Get that kid to get the income coming in first before you, like, go cold unless you have to. You. It's a little risky, but I grew up in a family real estate business, kind of an entrepreneurial family and all of us kids like I was a licensed agent when I turned 18. So 1987. I had that license for 18 years and 2005. I got rid of it because of an attorney who told me Thio, because I'm doing the type of deals. I was doing it in 2005. He's like, he goes, you know, you're gonna be held to a higher standard in California but, um, bought and sold. I don't know it, but I've probably done 6 700 transactions. Um, I bought everything known to mankind of gun land deals of gun apartments than retail. I loved I loved the whole selling business. Right now I do a ton of lending, but what I'm probably most known for is a lot of people know us for Ari I vaults, which actually we can talk about today. We're we're way dunmore direct mail marketing than anybody in the entire niche real estate or real estate agents. We've done nearly 40 million pieces of direct mail. I have every metric known to mankind. Um, we've been doing that for people who had their own list or we have a couple of proprietary mailing lists that are pretty, pretty awesome, and we do a massive amount of outbound cold calling. I have a cold calling team and we do all the phone follow up so people will come to us. And, hey, you guys are better experts at getting the phone to ring and getting appointments scheduled because direct mail is pretty easy for the most part, but actually making it work, and then the massive amount of leads that have to be followed up because you got a lot of crap. A lot of people that are screaming and yelling and angry callers.
spk_0: 3:46
Yeah, right. Paul doesn't direct mail. Doesn't work without the follow up.
spk_1: 3:50
Yeah, you have to have the phone follow up in the text. That's what we solved. So we do that for people and Ah, and it's pretty exciting. In fact, we're about ready January 1st. We're making a big announcement because we've it'll be coming out here and I don't know when you'll release yes to the all the audience. But we're
spk_0: 4:12
the same day right here, baby out sweeping day where we we get it turned around quick around here?
spk_1: 4:17
Yeah. So I will tell you. I'll tell everybody. This will be an early announcement, but we are officially ah, merging acquiring to technology companies that are super popular in our niche. Robert Seifert had a company called Investor P O and property list manager, and we've officially joined forces. We got together six months ago and we've merged our businesses under the new brand real estate investor dot com, which I've boned a long, long time. And I will it we've been on po d'oh. We're actually we're the largest podia user in the world. I I actually we're moving away, so we're gonna be moving all of our members away. Thio Probably what I would consider, um, the best cr em out there in terms of being able to manage leads, being able to do all the automated follow up. Does social profiling as leads come in, we automatically social profile, which means we'll pull email addresses will pull their Facebook information so we can retard it. Um, it's kind of super cool interface. And then I got a phone team that's totally triggered on auto dialer doing massive massive phone follow up and and some super excited we got
spk_0: 5:34
you'll do the follow up in a house. So, for example, if I hired if I bought this c R M y'all are gonna do the follow up for me.
spk_1: 5:43
Yeah, Yes. And for the cost of one b A. So we have Ah, the C R M is like 100 to 200 bucks a month. Um, depending upon like, how many users you need on your team, if you're small, you could go with the $97 version and then if you want our managed version, so we have what's called touch, grow and then managed Ari I bought would be what would be managed managed means. Hey, you actually need the staff to run it. You need the V A is to work the leads beyond the system and do all the phone follow up work. And so imagine leads come in. They get worked, they get pushed over to the phone team instantly. And the phone team is on the call like the professional expert. We call him salesman Jez, that are talking to the cellar, having the, you know, dialing for dollars all day long and then screening um, qualifying the good ones and then kicking out an appointment of totally screen appointment that you, as a real estate investor agent, can go on. And, um so all for the cost of about one, via it works out to, like, 14 bucks an hour. If you're hiring somebody, we do it all
spk_0: 6:53
nice. That's that's pretty powerful, man. That's Ah, that's a huge announcement, obviously. Um, I know Robert. I met him at, Ah, Max Maxwell's. We live here in Dallas. Um, he had a booth and, you know, I kind of fell in love with his program. He's one of the service providers for next level flipping. So super excited. See that merger coming in Roberts out on the East Coast to right?
spk_1: 7:17
Yeah, he is. And the guy that runs the technology division is in San Diego, which is really close to us.
spk_0: 7:25
Judging the coast together is, well,
spk_1: 7:28
Robert such a good guy. I'll tell people, you know, it's like trying to do everything in this business on our own is not a best practice. That's not how businesses in America become big businesses. And in real estate, people are solo preneurs a little too long and cuts, you know, I got it in 2004. I made all the mistakes known to mankind and, you know, leveraging other people and other people's time and other people's resource is and experiences is as important is raising money. Yeah, and I always say this and you know this R. J. I know you feel the same way, but this is a real estate investor like Warren Buffett calls a real estate investor. A somebody that has money they buy and they hold. That's a true real estate investor. If we're flipping, if we're whole selling, if we're fix and flip, that's not real estate investing. That's a real estate operation. It's a real estate, you know operation. And it needs a CEO because it gets a business, and as a business, it's not. It's active, not passive, like what you would do in real estate, where you can have a property manager and off you go. And if you're a CEO and you're doing $10 an hour work, you're gonna have a $10 bank of jam. So it's really all about where you're gonna leverage your time. And, you know, I just I I'm really passionate, and Robert and I are a CZ well of being able to help you know, guys and gals that are trying to jump the line. You know, they're they're they're they're action takers, but maybe they don't have a ton of experience. And they're trying to get to the next level and not be a workaholic and cannot be like eating at subway because they're dead. Broke one month, enrich the next month and dead broke the next month. It's like, How do you get consistency? Because real estate is a vehicle and, um, you know, you can do this with very little money, but you do have to follow and you like If you're doing direct mail's in the examples, there's somebody's got in mine and refine the Leeds. It's like a diamond. It's like a diamond mine. Just think about direct mail, largely generation as a diamond night or diamonds. Okay, so you go to these beautiful stores and a retail store. Kay Jewelers are We got Heller out here and you got these beautiful, sparkly diamond rings and you know everything charge a lot of money. That's a retail center. Well, it doesn't start there. It starts in a mine, and, like in the middle of nowhere, where somebody peeking paid $2 to $4 an hour is out there mining to get these little rocks right with a pick axe and a water shovel and all that stuff, and then they have to. They, that's that's like sending out the direct mail or cold calling. And then you gotta actually refined him to find out like you got the good, the bad and the ugly. And there's a massive amount of rejection. And so the most important thing a lot of people will do direct mail or whatever and then just say, Oh, it doesn't work in my market or it's too competitive. You actually have to have somebody. They're called in. I s a It's an inside sales agent. Some people call him lead processors, but it's somebody that's on the phone. 24 7 dialing for dollars, working the leads. They're scripted. They're really professional. And because some sellers are not ready yet and everybody is looking for this fairy dust. I just did a webinar, your entire group, that this motivated seller concept everybody's looking for a motivated seller. It's like it doesn't exist. It's like 2 to 3% of the leads that come in will be motivated, but we're really looking for. They're not motivated yet. You have to interact with them. And some sellers may take 345 10 12 interactions to get them from, like, just thinking about selling. And usually when they're not ready, they're not motivated. They want an astronomically high price and then over a handful of weeks or a couple of months, then become reasonable. And then they become motivated and super motivated. And you need a team to do that. It was not something that any. Nope. Not none of us. Not one person on this call today, unless they've never done a deal, should ever prospect for leads. You should not do any prospecting. None of us should have a lead generation problem. Really, it comes down to building. Relationships should be in front of enough sellers, build relationships of trust, right? Muff ring. You know, assault put giving them a solution to their problem, to sell the house, and you make a ton of money doing it. But to get there, somebody else really should be doing all the all the work.
spk_0: 12:16
Yeah, it's funny you bring this up because I was actually nervous before this call that I was gonna be late because I got a call from my my good friend Kelly Smith and Kelly Smith. She works with Easy Street capital here. It's a hard money lender here in the state of Texas, and they actually just branched out to California as well. And Kelly, I had that I had the honor of being on Steve Trains podcast last week. And so I said, for anybody that shares this video, um, I'm going to put all the names in a hat and I'm gonna draw one out, and whoever wins gets a free year in next level flipping. Okay, so Kelly was the winner, so I called Kelly. She didn't answer. She called back right, but, like eight minutes before this interview, and Kelly's a talker, if you ever If you know Kelly Smith, she's a talker, and I'm like, I didn't want to interrupt her and be like, I've got a podcast. Shut up! I got to go. But she goes, Hey, uh, I've got a question. You'd mind you. She's, ah, hard money lender. She's warning to start doing her own investing, and she's in Austin, Texas. Austin, Texas, is Ah, extremely hot. Market is difficult for people to do a whole lot down there. And she goes, Hey, do you think direct mail is a good idea here in Austin? Because I talked to one of my good friends and they spent a ton of money on a direct mail campaign and they only got four phone calls and I kind of laughed and said, The problem there is is we don't know what list they mail do. We don't know what they send out, What I mean what it was a letter was a postcard. What did it say? And then it's only one time. This is not how direct mail's done. I mean, direct mail is about consistency and split testing and learning what's gonna work. I mean, I interview people from across the country. I would consider Phoenix one of the hottest markets in the country, and I've interviewed numerous peoples from from Phoenix, and they have said, Oh, direct mail, it's what works. It's not dead. And it's funny what you're talking about there where it's like it is so much somewhere to that analogy of the mining, you know, a diamond mine, you know, and and it does take a lot of work. You're not just going to get the phone call where, you know, you sent a postcard and they call you and say I'll sell you my house for 50 cents on the dollar. That's that's just not gonna happen if it ever happens. It's a rare occurrence. So, um, you know, you have I've got hearing on this list. It says you've sent out 27 million pieces of direct mail. That number's probably growing. Actually, that number is probably from
spk_1: 14:58
that needs to be updated. It were were I've been telling people over 36 million. We're actually closer to 40 million right now. 40 million pieces of direct mail I think we've got I think we've got one of the largest call rail accounts historically, and then going to the new system. Nobody's gonna need to worry about any of the any phone stuff because it's all embedded. But, um, I think we have 5000 call rail numbers, so we're able to track all the response rate. So I know what works. Um, probably better than anybody else. And I
spk_0: 15:32
1000 call real numbers that incredible so quick for the people didn't don't understand Let's get like two. Super simple. What is it? Call real number and why do you have
spk_1: 15:41
no Okay, So when you're sending out direct mail, by the way, you can go out. Ah, real estate investor dot com. You can put this in the show notes. There's a what I call it's The Secret Guide for Direct Mail. It's everything that I that we've learned of, what to dio and how to do it and what mistakes tow avoid to get the phone to ring on the direct mail side. And we have. It's called the Definitive Guide. It's actually on real estate investor dot com On our Web sites of down. You can download it, Use it. Um, so the phone number. You never want to put a website on a direct mail piece. I want to tell you that that is something we learn not 10 years ago, the hard way. Ah sent out hundreds of thousands of pieces before we realized it. You put it. You want a phone number, right? Okay, It's direct response. It's not even direct mail. We're doing a direct response Marketing. We're going after our off market deals. Um, this is all ninja stuff that's taught by mostly Dan Kennedy was the originator of this. He's like behind all the infomercials and almost all the gurus, and everything that's done in our business was Dan Kennedy. And if you want, there's either a one step or a two step approach to getting the phone to ring, and I won't go into the details. But you want a phone number and you want a compelling message. And then sometimes you take people to a pre recorded message. Okay, where they can then press pound or zero and connect to somebody live or it goes direct to a live person and, um, and you want a phone number now typically, let me just tell you. Typically, 800 numbers are better to put on the postcard that a local number and one is you want you want to build a trap. The caller i D. Because only a 2% to 3% of the inbound calls from sellers are gonna be motivated and ready to go. It's all about the follow up. It's it's all about phone text, brainless voice mail, email, Facebook. Follow up to these cellars. 97% of the profits s so you want a phone number and then these air phone numbers, like when you're using a particular mailing list and a particular let's say, Ah, what we call the shock and awe postcard or we have what's called the 10 31 exchange. It's one of our favorite Brad Chandler, from Express Homebuyers with the originator of awesome postcard. It's a little four by six white postcard, but it gets 3 to 4 times the response rate of most of the other stuff out there, and you put in 800 or eight number. And, um, if you put a local number, you're gonna you're gonna get ah, if you're like in Alaska, Hawaii or Ohio, parts of Ohio local will outperform. But some people see that as a bigger company, and they also see that it's a kind of a pre recorded 24 hour message so people can call in and they think they're gonna be able Thio not talk to somebody because a lot of people don't want to talk to somebody live. They want to hear more about what you d'oh. If you send people to a website, here's what we found thistles. Prove it. Your response rate will be half like it might even be you might like. You might actually take it down like lose 60% of your leads. The reason is people go to the website, they'll spend two seconds there and then they won't do anything. And you will have no idea that they're looking at you and they don't opt into any stuff because they get busy right there surfing. And then some other ad pops up there. It's like, you know, email pops up and the people are gone, right? So you always want a phone number, and and then you want to keep the phone number so you can split test. So anyway, there's there's so much art and science to getting the phone to ring, and that's just part of it, writes the mailing list. It's the right last mailing lists. Then it's the right message. Um, that you're gonna put the Wright copy and then what is the media meaning? Are you gonna put it on a letter or a postcard? We do like postcards for sellers like you've never talked to a cellar. A postcard will outperform dollar $2. Um, unless it's a really small Mitch mailing list.
spk_0: 20:11
Yeah, I was. That's actually what I was gonna ask. You kept saying post card and I was gonna ask Post card or letter on. And almost everybody that I've talked to that does volume when it comes to direct mail, has said postcards outperformed letters. And it's funny because I'll talk to smaller volume investors and they fall in love with their letters. Yeah, you think because they've written something really special in there that gets on this really high response rate or because they, you know, they make it artistic or something on those lines that makes it perform better. But almost every single person that does volume and has been doing this for a long time, says keep it generic had the phone number. You're the first person I've heard say, put the 1 800 number on there. Um, that that is something new that I haven't heard but postcard phone number, no website and And get that sent out. And that's what performs the best, um, outside that. So you date a pre recorded message when the phone call calls in. Are you still gonna answer?
spk_1: 21:17
Okay, So the only time we would recommend a pre recorded messages if you're using more of a blind copy approach a blind copy. I talked about one step versus two step blank copy means that you're sending a very all those the urgent postcards that you know, we were the inventor of those, by the way, anybody that puts urgent notice. And was my founding business partner, Chris Chico, who helped start the business with me years ago. And he's the master postcard guy in our niche. So he created its blind copy, which it doesn't say anything about buying the house. So you get you gotta It's still one of our best performing pieces, and, um, it's just not for everybody, right? And so you always want to drive blind copy to a pre recorded message with the right message and then because that'll filter people out. And if not, if you're taking all those people, the high volume people thio Ah, live person, you're gonna burn out your phone team and it's in a cause or been in price. You know, even if you have pat live, you're gonna spend way too much money. So a really good pre recorded message, basically, you know, four blind copy everything else. Everything else should go to a live US person. And we set all that up. We provide all of that for our members. In fact, we actually build a marketing plan for somebody's in Austin. We're gonna come in. We're going to say, Hey, we think your your average possible deal is gonna be about $3400 a deal in Austin. And that's 3400 means you're gonna that's gonna generate enough calls to generate enough leads to get enough. Yes, is to get enough people that are going to go to an appointment and accept an offer and close. So for 3400 bucks, we would we would anticipate that you're gonna You're gonna close a deal off of that. Now, if you're really good, that follow up in sales and you're really good with making multiple offers to a cellar, you're gonna see the cost substantially go down, right? That's just on average.
spk_0: 23:20
So you brought up another point when it comes to direct mail and that's make sure your mailing to the right list. So everybody wants to know. What is this magical fairy tale list that ever might should be mailing to. We're even doing cold calling or whatever. What is your favorite list of the market?
spk_1: 23:40
Yeah, so? So let me just tell everybody people are chasing rabbits, okay? If they're always looking for the better list where the better postcard it is, it is a wild goose chase. Okay, I'll just tell you, you're gonna get better results. Um, incremental results, but people will like, I call it three feet from gold because they'll test something and they're really close to making it work. And then they're jumping and chasing something else where they will be in a small mastermind with somebody that really it's this more vocal. And they're saying, Oh, you should be doing this last year. You should be going here and just be very careful of that. Um, there are. There is no there is no perfect list. And there is no perfect hoppy. However, with that said, there's there's, there's there's equity, that the equity list, those are people that have equity. And those were big because they're big list. There's 127 million single family properties that we all have access to on public record, all right, and we don't want to mail the that many because that's that's the whole population. What we have found is tthe e equity list. The best equity list is probably ours, and Chris Richter would be, You know, we do a lot of mailing for Chris Rector and for for for some of his guys, they're with us, know by his list. It's expensive. You're gonna pay 30,000 bucks a year for access to his list, but that's really awesome. We have a list called the Invisible List. It's a mostly inherited property, mostly absentee, mostly free and clear judge, though it's invisible because it's not highly, highly marketed to gets less competition. Because people, um, people are usually going out the list source and they're buying a junk absentee list. And, ah, and they're putting in filters that they shouldn't be filtering. And so we actually have ah, you know, we're buying. We spent probably $40,000.50,000 dollars last month for data, maybe more. Um, s O. I think we, uh all right. So the the other list, that's the equity list. I like inherited properties, mostly absentee and mostly, uh, free and clear. Now, if you're trying to buy that list yourself, then just don't put the last sale data. So that would be the first thing most people are being taught at a seminar to go in list source type absentee owner so and then put in last sale date of, like, 2010. Right? The all the gems are gonna be a blank sale day. So you just like you just, like, eliminated half of the best profit gold, right? So I just gave everybody that's a secret. We actually we have a scoring algorithms, so I won't go into the details. But we actually will go by a massive list for our member, our client in their market so well, by a list, and then we're scoring it. We've got all kinds of the indicators that air like, OK, this one, these are the best 20,000 that we're gonna nail to over the next the next year. Now there's another smaller list. Um, and we call it the shipwrecked, but it's code violations or awesome. The shipwrecked is basically it's a combination of three mailing lists that were able to get from these three providers, but what it's made up of code violations and abatements. These air people, high weeds, you know, they have 10 cars on the property and the the county's giving them. Ah, notifications and violations. It's It's kind of like driving around and finding all the crap that's getting fine. Uh, recently divorced, recently deceased. Um, our great b I
spk_0: 27:34
will sit on the recently deceased, so I'm going through this situation right now. My my grandmother passed away in October and my dad passed away in 2012 so she did not have a will Shocking to all of us in the family. And that makes me a direct heir to this estate. I have an aunt and uncle, but I'm gonna be the administrator of the estate. There is nothing I can do with this property for the next six months. I mean, I have to go through the process to become the administrator, and then I have to do inventory of all of our assets. And I'm already receiving postcards and letters that are literally doing nothing, but just I mean, he say I'm not a real estate investor. They're just going to go straight to the trash because I'm like I have. My attorney just told me I can't sell the house for six months, so I'm just starting in a way. It's a waste of money. So just a little bit of that process when it comes to, you know, on howto market to that.
spk_1: 28:41
Yeah, well, it's a pre probate list, for sure, and there's a lot of gems in there that are recently deceased that people have full ability of selling husband and wife, husband, wife, and the wife just died, all right. Chances are husband may want to downsize. Uh, kids are on on it or it's in a trust why these properties are actually held in trust because they do have a wealth. And so we're getting all of those where everybody else is waiting to the probate phase. You know, by the way, you can get a hold of some of these sellers are wanting to talk there like a They don't even know that they got to go through probate and you could even come in. If you're really good at it, you come in and, you know, help with the probate attorney. All you're looking for his letters. Those testamentary. It's really just one document. Some of the sun The attorneys could move that faster than six months to if it's just the property that's getting released. Um, and so there's a lot of investors that air wanting to get to a way, way, way before probate because Pro Day Pro Bates also you gotta wait. And sometimes, you know, now all of a sudden there's a different executive Rex executor involved.
spk_0: 29:52
Yeah, there's a lot that goes into that.
spk_1: 29:54
So But that list that what we call shipwrecked code violations were also cross referencing it with equity. Uh, definitely. Stacking were less stacking it, which is we're looking for about 75% kind of combined wound, a valuer or less
spk_0: 30:11
Janja. So based off of your, you know, expertise looking across the country. How many leads do you think it takes to get a deal? 45 45 leads to get a deal, and that's based off of nationwide. Some markets are obviously better than others, right?
spk_1: 30:30
Yeah, 45 leads what it want. One important thing is what What's the definition of elite? Exactly. Everybody calls lead differently are my definition our definition of other lead is really a unique seller who came in and ah, or filled out a website for him. If they called 10 times, we're just going to consider that one lead. So 40 45 of those should end up with about 15 that air net leads. So about 1/3 are gonna be net. Which means the seller said Yes, I would be interested in possibly talking to you about either an offer. So in my house, so of the 45 you're going to deal with a lot of tire kickers. Ah, lot of like angry people. A lot of remove me from the male, not interested, super friendly, but not interested. By the way. There's an all amazing leads. Just they're not ready yet, so they're not dead. And people, most people throw those away. Those air. Absolute Jeffs. The best leads are the people that have already come in. I made $240,000 off of one of the angriest sellers I've ever had. So is a fireman, and he had two houses. He had a $1,000,000 lean against the property. And when he when he got his postcard from us. He called him like screamed every profanity and pretty much a threatening call. Right? And those were some of the best leads. The people that calling, they hang up. Those are actually better. We found that the people that call and hang up or better leads than the people that leave a voicemail on the front end
spk_0: 32:05
on. And I'm gonna take a swing of this. I don't know where you're going with this. This wasn't pre planned. But I said all the time and for anybody's listening. Tow my podcast before you've heard me say this. We're not buying houses were solving people's problems right? And And why Toe have that much anger? There has to be a pretty big problem, right? I am never one time got a piece of spam mail in my mailbox and been so angry to call and cuss someone out.
spk_1: 32:35
There's a problem, by the way, you just said it. I I'm I'm launching right now. I'm giving it away to all of our real estate investor clients in a pilot because I just think the markets people been asking me forever. But I'm building an advanced called I'm calling it a revolution in a revolutionary advanced sales, training and compression coaching. And, ah, you know, Number one is we're not buying houses. We're buying, We're buying problems. It works, and we're coming up with a solution to solve a problem. And I guarantee I said this on the training I did. I did an hour and 1/2 training call with everybody just on two days ago, and, uh, I follow a sales process called Rapid. So Rapid is an acronym on a process that closes every single time of. And but it's, you know, we're buying problems and everybody that's selling at a discount, they you're solving a problem. You probably don't know it right, and and And if you actually understand what the problem is and you're selling around it, that's where the guys and gals are making huge amounts of money. And by the way, I don't even think it's optional anymore. If you're in any kind of competitive market, you're having to adjust your techniques. If you're gonna basically stay in business, this is a competitive market. The market has changed. We're now competing with open doored, the whole I buyer movement. A lot of super sharp agents are getting into this. Keller Williams is all over it. Number one guy from Berkshire Hathaway. Jeff Cohen, good friend of mine, just launched. They just moved a big announcement with Warren Buffett that they're moving to Keller Williams and these guys. They're competing and many, many markets. So you've got to be really good. It coming in and not just offering some crappy lowball, you know, offer and expecting to have success you're gonna have. You're gonna have to basically find what the problem is and that they call it Solution selling. So most people are doing what's called transaction selling because they don't know any better transaction selling is like a one time. It's like it's like times timeshare sales where you're it's a numbers game and you're making offers and and solution. Selling is finding what the problem is slowing down on your offer, slowing, slowing it down. I I show people that what I call the motivational curve of like a make an offer rage mate, and there's an old rule of sales Number one rule of sales. Gotten any advance sales training in any industry? Is he or she who speaks first loses. So everybody that's going out and making these quick, crappy offers, they're breaking the first rule of sales, right? So I just think, you know, marketing this business is marketing and sales. Marketing should be easy. Um, don't try to do it on your own. You should have somebody else do it. You could use us as an example and including our phone team. And then, really, where the focus is is learning how to close because you should be in front of you know, enough sellers to make enough offers to close a deal. It's purely a numbers game, but 45 leads should generate 15 net leads. About half of those should get offers within a few weeks to a few few months, and that should get you one deal. And then if you're really good at sales in perfecting the follow up, this is where we really help people. That number should start tightening and becoming lower lower overtime
spk_0: 36:10
because of the follow up
spk_1: 36:11
because of the follow up.
spk_0: 36:12
Yeah. Yeah, and I'm gonna go back to something that you just said there about the cells process. Um, I actually went on appointment last week and it was one of the stranger appointments I've been on. So the cellar that we spoke to was the wife, and she said my husband will be there during the appointment when he opens the door. He didn't say anything to me. He just opened the door and stared at me. And I said, Hey, I'm r J Bates from Titanium Investments. I'm just here to take a look at your property and ah, he just stared at me and didn't say anything. And it was one of the like, just angry, like he like he wanted to kill me and And I'm like, you know, my mind started racing a little bit on my Is this gonna be woes where I end up on the evening news like, you know, real estate investor showed up at vacant house and got murdered or something I'm like, kind of panicking on my Why's this guy Just not saying you think. And ah, Finally he loosened up and he goes all right, you know. Come on, come on, come in. And within five minutes of me being inside that house and not talking, letting him talk, he went from one of the most pissed off individuals I've ever seen, too. He was telling me about how his daughter was in the some genius program and was marrying this guy and living in Ohio. And he's from New Jersey and he loves hockey and he just going on and on and on about his whole life. And after about 30 minutes, I realized I haven't said anything. This guy's just telling me everything and he told me all of his motivation as to why he wanted to sell the house. He doesn't want to win and fourth faces anymore. He wants to live in Phoenix, Arizona, where you used to ride his bike and he loves the nature there and he loves the weather and he hates humidity, and he told me all the reasons. And then that's when he finally just stopped talking, and then it allowed me to go in and finish out the cells process. But it could have been very easy for me to be uncomfortable at the beginning and do a lot of talking, and I think it would have stayed very awkward. So yeah, I'm right there with you, man else process is extremely important to get a feel off of your cellar and just listen to them, right? That whole saying we have two years of one mouth for a reason. Yeah, you know, So it's very important.
spk_1: 38:40
So, you know, I want O. J for anybody out there that's listening. And you're not either professionally trained or you're not closing at a rate that you want should come back and listen to this two minute segment because you just gave the keys to the kingdom on on what works. And I know I'm in 10 masterminds, nine masterminds, all seven and eight figure people every we're all doing the same thing. I come from a software technology, you know, selling 500 to $5 million software products where I was professionally trained, uh, 18 years ago as I was doing that, So I I I had ah technology, job and a massive amount of money with IBM Annex censure and a company that was called Cross World Software, which raised hundreds of millions of dollars of public. So that's my background this way, but we're talking about of what you did is fundamental solution selling okay, A good sales person, By the way, salespeople are not born, they're made. It has to be a true sales person, a true samurai selling which we all are, by the way and and eat and everything that we d'oh we're selling. When you're raising money, you're selling. When you're finding buyers you're selling when you're getting married. Somebody selling somebody if you don't know who's who's the sales person? You were the one that got sold right? Um, selling your It's a lifelong learning process. And here's what the professional sales trainers and the CEOs around the country that have $1,000,000,000 companies will say good sales. In the best salespeople, 75% are active listening. They're there, and they're very deliberate and what they say. So people, they're not good at sales talk. You talk, talk, talk, good sales. People have empathy and humility, and they people by fundamental sales rules, people buy or sell to people that they like trust and respect. All right,
spk_0: 40:51
you know what's funny about that? Going back to the example that I just gave during the 30 minutes while the seller was talking, I wish there could have been, like a graphic of light what my feelings and my thought process was because the whole time he was talking what I've planned on saying next probably changed about 500 times because I didn't know when he was going to stop talking. Yeah, and so the whole time I'm digging, okay? Based off of this, this is the next day I can say and I'm literally sitting there and I'm thinking back to all the people that I've learned that I find have a lot more wisdom than I do about this. Okay? Sitting in masterminds, like your time out. Okay. What was that? That John said? What was that? That Mike said that one time, you know, and I'm digging back to what's the my next move in making him comfortable and continued open up. And like you said, be the 1st 1 to say a number or the motivation or what it is that they want. Or finally tell me in all reality outside of all that, what's the true problem you want me to solve here? Which that's what I eventually found. How can I get him back to Arizona?
spk_1: 42:01
Yeah, Here's a little. I shared this on our sales training the other day. Here's a little secret. Uh, I learned this from a guy who's a CEO of a very, very large technology company who was one of my mentors. When you're interacting with sellers always agree with whatever they say. Don't argue. Don't try to compete with. If you think that the House needs $50,000 or repairs and they think it's Ted, don't argue with them. You're never gonna win. I say Sellers are crazy and you can't argue with crazy people. So instead, little simple technique. Agree. Repeat what they said or what you heard them say. And then ask them another question and you can actually deflect and go to a different direction. You can do that with a cellar. I bet that's exactly what you did. Ah, you basically it's like, Gosh, you know what, Mr Seller, I totally agree that moon is made out of cheese or we're on a flat earth, right? Whatever they say. And it's like it sounds like what you're saying is X, Y and Z so and is that correct? And he might if I ask you another question, or do you mind if I ask and you could do that over and over again. I knew I knew nothing really about buying investor properties when I first got in the business. 2004. Okay. All right. Quit my job and all that stuff. And the very first deal is five hour, five hours away in a car from San Francisco area to Bakersfield. And so I got in the car. Just knew this guy wanted to get out of the property, so I just interacted with them. I found out that he he was ah, got screwed by his family. Got divorced in the house. Hated this house. Four acres, Two hours. We just chatted you. Finally, his name was Joe. And he goes, Gary, because we you know, we spent a lot of time. I really like you. And Ah, And I said you, Joe, you tell me, what do you want? Like, what would be ideal? By the way, that's part of a form it's called. Investigate the decision. Pro propane and based. Investigate that this the solution together. So I said, you know what would work for you? Because you know what, Gary? Here's my deal. And I was willing to buy the house and pay him money and he goes, I will give you $10,000 to take this house Very first deal. By the way, I made $181,000 on the very first deal and I didn't take it. I said Explain to me, Joe, why? How? Why you would give me $10,000 to take the house And then he explained it to me, made total sense. And I said, Joe, you don't have to I know I'm a faith based guy and I like to sleep at night and I would like to buy your house. You don't have to give me any money. How about I give you 100 bucks and way did the deal We had the notary come over that night, signed the deed, the whole thing, and even the notary said you do you really understand what you're doing here? And he said, I'm actually selling this young man my house for $100 tonight and the notary said, Okay, let's do it. So I bought my first house. The reason I said that is all I did is I agreed with what he said. I repeated what I heard and then I asked him a few more questions. By the way, that's an art from the classic Book of Solution selling. Another one that that I follow is called Rapid. This is the most, and I'll give this to the listeners. Um, it's just that this is probably my most sacred model, that I spent a lot of time in our dance training. Rapid is a sales process super easy to dio, and you can do it every single interaction with the same cellar until you close the deal. So are for rapid stands for resolve differences quickly. Okay, it's really it's a power shift. So and I'll give you an example of my power shift when I introduced myself to the cellar because it totally is disruptive, which which is what I want to do. I want to interrupt. I want a basically psychological interrupt because I meet with the cellar and they have the power. They have the house, I want to buy it and I want to shift the power instantly. Okay, the A for rapid. So in the acronym is setting the agenda. And what I do is I typically say, gosh, you know, if you'd be okay with it. I'd like to ask you a few questions. You probably give me a few answers. I'll ask a few more questions, and then I'll be able to give you an offer and a little bit more information about who I am and how we can help. And I do that in one line. Not see a The Pee is probe for pain. You're asking open ended questions to probe for pain. Uh, gosh, Mr. Seller, um, is there anything I should be aware of That makes the house more difficult to sell. And, uh, gosh, Mr Seller, is there anybody else on title like any family member, wife or spouse, that may make this a little bit more complicated. I'm probing for pain. Is there cash? Mr. Cellar? If you had $50,000 instead of me saying, Oh, here's my estimate repairs, by the way, you could kill a deal because there's a motion with that property. So if you're gonna come in there and talk about tearing down walls and changing up the kitchen, they may not sell the you just because that's emotionally tied. So I just say, Gosh, Mr Cellar, if you had 50,000. I already know it's 50,000. Also, if you had $50,000 of cash to invest in this beautiful property, what would you d'oh and let me take some notes? And then they're like, I've always wanted to do this and do this, and I'm agreeing with them and then asking themselves So it sounds like right? Agree, Right, Pete, ask a few more questions. It builds massive trust. It differentiates you. The sellers will open up. And if you're doing this right, you will. They'll give you. They'll give you their bottom line price, um and and they want to sell to you. And by the way, 17% of sellers say that they sell because of price. There's there's so many other components of stuff, and most people, there's no really good training. I think the only person out there that's got a good training is John Martinez, and that's why I just have said I've got to do this because it's It's one of the biggest stocks that I see for people in this current market. By the way, uh, rapid that was probed pertained the I stands for investigate the decision. The solution together, and that's you. Come in and I call it the Wave. The magic wand. It's like, imagine, or weight. If you could wave the magic one and I were able to buy your property, what would what would it look like? Right. It feels good. But what you're doing is you're actually consulted, stated with them, and you're becoming, like, part of the solution with them. And then the D is the markets, the process to get them to take decisive action, to sell to you and only to you. And you can do that on every single call and the last thing I care if you want. I know. I'm probably going, like, probably way over on your time
spk_0: 49:08
today. Okay? This here's dropping like tens of thousands of dollars worth of knowledge. Like someone let you keep going
spk_1: 49:15
right back to the R. This is this is been the most powerful thing for how I introduced myself to sellers. Uh, because I get the sellers a lot of the time. People don't know us. And there's so many scamsters out there and somebody door knockers. Everybody's trying to pitch something right now. And then you want turn on the TV, man, and everybody's lying right. You can't trust anybody in Washington right now. It's like it's just a complete you know what show, right? And, uh and so these cellars, you know, we don't know them. So they you know, Number one, it's it's relationship and trust. There's gonna be a relationship, and then you need to establish some trust and classic sell it. And so I and the seller knows that we're mostly investors, and we bought it. Want to buy the house on the cheap? So I basically will start resolving differences is I'll talk to the cellar and say, Gosh, Mr Seller, my name's Gary Boomer Shine. I've been in this business a long, long time. I've got a wife been married 25 years and two daughters. I do this full time, and I've taken my life. We've taken our life family savings, along with my mom and my in laws and a few of us, and we're buying a couple of properties a month, and we love doing it. We fix them up and put nice families into them, and, um and I just love doing it. I'm sharing this with you. because I'm looking to make a modest profit somehow some way, and I'm not. In fact, I'm probably not even the right six, the right buyer for your house. And I want to say that up front. So I took all the pressure off of you feeling like you needed toe sell to me. I said, I'm really connected. I've gotta roll index of contacts and I'd be happy to give you all the information I have to help you make a better decision. Like if you want a realtor to list it. If you need great contractors, I got them all. And I said, um, but if it does happen that you do sell to me, I think you'll absolutely love the process. And before we go too far, I want you to talk to a couple of other sellers that have worked with me that would give you raving reviews. Does that sound fair? So I do that power shift, and they were like, Hey, come on in. I so thankful. And I mean, like, people tear up on the very first that from the very first conversation where most of my competition I'm in California, Salt Lake city. I'm in very competitive markets. I love it. I love it when I'm coming in either first or last. I don't really care. Especially last, because you got all these other shocks that are coming in and they act desperate. They are unprofessional there. There got no professional training on howto have a cell, and it's high pressure right there, and they want to get to the offer really quickly. You know, the 70% after repaired value of minus repairs and I just was like and I just tee that up I call it's called creating fear, uncertainty and doubt. It's like any ways
spk_0: 52:14
of a man that you for sharing that. And you did bring up John Martinez. Um, if you want three episodes ago, guys I'd interviewed John Great interview. He did a lot of those tactics that you just went through, man, and I agree. He's one of very few people out there that is actually giving solid advice about this process. There's, ah real say investing is a really interesting industry, and the fact that you can feel like a superstar without really doing a whole lot, you know, especially in 2019 you know this social media gives a lot of credibility to people. And there's people out there that, you know, hey, maybe they were running, ah, two or $3 million business and some people that made him feel like a superstar. Now they're trying to give out advice to people on how to do this business. Um, my advice would be listening. People like Gary listen, people like John Martinez, you know, John's been in cells forever, and John openly admits he's not a real estate investor. You know, he he's a Cell's trainer and and he gives advice, and he's very niche specific for real estate investing. You've been doing this since 2004 man. And just thank you so much for sharing all that information that you did. You didn't have to do that. That was awesome, though, Um, the last question that I want to go into and you could make this is brief as you want. And I know you're a busy guy and you got a lot to do, but, um, I asked you before what you want to talk about and have anyone got around to it? What is the market going to do Moving forward in 2020. You you've been around for, you know, we're going on 16 years now. You've been in this. You've seen it. I'm sure you have an opinion. What do we think the market's gonna do? Moving forward?
spk_1: 53:57
Yeah. Ah, real estate has been a seven year cycle for 100 years. Um, that's followed almost the same. Almost of the exact day, By the way, A seven year cycle were way over 10. And some people think this is the new norm. I don't I actually think that we are seeing exactly the same part of the cycle euphoric cycle that we've seen in 78 4007 years before that. Seven years before that. Seven years before that. All the way back to the And we're also in a Fiat money system, By the way, they also artificially creates this. So I think we're going to see we're seeing it. We're absolutely seeing it return. So, um, I think people need to adjust. The competition is increasingly, like ridiculous right now, so, um, you've gotta be really, really good sharp as a tack on. You're selling capability and you got to get really good at generating leads. He gonna generate leads. And you got to be really good at closing those leads. Um, it's not like shooting fish in a barrel like three or four years ago. It will be, by the way, you know it will be, but not now. Um, the focus is also gonna be a lot more on lending. The money is gonna tighten up when the market shifts. Ah, lot of the, uh, uh, money shifts. And we a lot of the people that stick around in the new market will go into creative being really good at buying creatively and and also the lending component of doing private lending. So we're already helping kind of start that process with a lot of our members with real estate investor dot com of howto how to make creative offers. I didn't even know howto make a cash offer until Chris Chico taught me in 2013. I'm like, why would you offer cash for a house like you can buy? I bought 400 houses without more than 100 bucks. Right? Or hard money? Yeah. So I think I think this is I think that there's a massive transformation of wealth in the market turns. Ah, and I think that we are in that stage right now, so I think 2020 is gonna be interesting. I think people need to be Ah, um uh they need to be watchful of the market and because the profits, like a typical whole selling markets, typically a 6 to 10 acts R A y. I mean, spend a dollar on marketing. You're making 6 to $10 in return. And right now it's an average of four. The people that are making 6 to 10 are really good on on sales and follow up. That's where that's I think people need. If they're going to do that, they need to be really, really focused on that and learning creatively. And, uh, that's my That's my take. I'm excited. I actually think this is this is a great time On were
spk_0: 56:46
any final words. Well, and I almost just say this in regards to what you just said. Um, I by no means have the experience you have. But every now and then I say things and I stumbled upon some wise words, so I'm gonna try to stumble on something say, Hey, I said it on a podcast back in December 2019. Um, we have been leaning out our machine all of 2019. Um, and what I mean by that is is we're cutting the fat, getting rid of people that weren't fitting. Our culture weren't fitting. The weren't producing it high enough. Um, what they should have been. And what's funny about that is, is what's popular right now. And what I hear is build up your team. More acquisitions, get this large or get get this big office space, right? And it's because wholesaling is working so well right now, right? Anybody can hold. So they're like, I'm wholesaling 30 40 50 deals a month. Here is my caution to those people. I understand that the people that are buying those deals might not be in business in the next 6 to 12 to 18 months, high likelihood. And when those people go out of business, what are you gonna do? Which is why I've been leaning out and preparing for taking down properties ourselves when the market goes down and we can buy at bottom dollar. But if you have this big team in this massive overhead, Understand Who's paying your bills? It's not you. It's your customers. So I said it in December 2019. I hope that I hope it doesn't hurt a lot of people. I don't want to see that, but that's just my feelings. That's the decision that we made was better be safe than sorry, right
spk_1: 58:45
suit. That's super super wise. And I'll tell you that. That's also what I'm seeing a lot of like the smarter money right now, right? Um, you know, people are recognizing the the rehab er's and fix and Flip guys and the retail guys will be substantially hit and it'll start. It'll start in the coastal areas. That's that's how it happened. And it's a lot of people that were there swinging for the fences right now, and they're staffing up. You know, Dave Ramsey has a saying, I'd like to live like nobody else. You gotta live like nobody else. And that is that model. It's all about how much money that you're you're socking away, right? Also, biblically, just let's just think of if you know what, whether you're a faith based guy or not, that it was the story of Joseph with the seven years of feast followed by the seven years of famine, By the way, set seven years, by the way, save seven years all throughout the Bible. It's very interesting On the seven year cycle, it's the quotes called the ship Mita. Um, so we've had the seven years of feast and there, you know, the So the story is, Hey, you know what you're actually saving and storing right and and buttoning down the hatch is still running your business. But I think that's one of the things for real estate investor dot com. A lot of people love us, a bacon outsource and the, you know, having employees. It's hard to let employees go right when you're downsizing, and it's kind of like with a lot of people like us, because they can scale up, they can scale down like instantly, right? They can add the phone. Teamers are subtract the phone team. If they want a cold call for a couple of months and they want to scale it up, they they can do it with, and we have a full management team that's managing those people, so you have to hire him, train up, keep him busy making sure that they're not moonlighting, right for other people. So I think that's really wise, R J. That's super.
spk_0: 1:0:42
Well, I appreciate that, man. And you know what? It was a really hard decision for me to make. You know that this is the best way I can put it. I'm gonna assume majority of my listeners are gonna be millennials, so they live on I g instagram, right? I pretty much live by the rules of what everybody else is doing in there. I g stories. I want to do the opposite. If I see all of all these people building these massive organizations 30 40 people, um, you know, and they're talking about, you know, they've got, you know, I've got 10 acquisitions, senior acquisitions guys and eight junior acquisitions. Guys, I'm like, that's a lot of money to feed that Minnie Mouse. And I don't know if this is the time in that seven year cycle. Um, I appreciate you sharing. Um, you know, the biblical aspect of that. Um I am very much a believer, and and these are the you know, that's how I get my answers from, You know? So I appreciate you sharing that. Thank you so much. Last last thing I'm just gonna share. I'm a super high visionary guy, okay? And so when I came up with the podcast, the idea popped into my head. The slogan unlocking the secrets, the real estate investing. I was like, What do you unlock? You are Mark a vault. And, of course, my company was called titanium investment. So I was like, Well, call it the titanium vault, unlocking the secrets of real estate investing. So that's how this came about, right? And then, like, six months later, I had another visionary idea off of the vault, and I was like, I can't know what it was a mastermind. Educate something that I was thinking about doing. And I was like, Ari, I vault. I'm gonna go buy Ari. I vault dot com right now and then That's when I found you. I was like, Who is this guy? Ari? I vault like he's owned it for, you know, 10 years already, and I was super mad at you, like, threw my laptop, and I'm like that ruined that idea. So, uh, but I'm It's an honor to have you on, man. And, uh, thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom that you have super excited to hear about the merger with Robert Cipher for real estate investor dot com Guys, I suggest you go out, take a look at it. Um, it sounds like it's an incredible opportunity. And also what you said it feeds directly into what you and I both think is coming in the market. It allows you to scale up or scale down based off where your businesses out without having to fire people. Because you say it like you said, firing people is not ever fun. It will never be fun. Eso Thank you so much for taking the time, Gary. Any final words for our listeners before we sign off? Yeah. You
spk_1: 1:3:28
know, um, this This is an incredible for for people that are fairly new. I would just say persistence and tenacity. This is incredible. There's really three areas. This is there's wealth, there's health. And then there's relationships, and I'm passionate about helping people in our niche. The entrepreneurs achieve that. I know Robert Seifert is as well, and real estate is a vehicle and you know whole selling is is kind of neat, but it's it's not. It's not the end all be all and, ah, and so it's really easy to get stuck. You know, the real it's not. It's not how many big deals and I did 100 or 200. It's really how much money did you put away in your bank account and save and and how many hours you came in here for a lifestyle that's like, You know, do you have a lifestyle? Were you able to go to Hawaii for 10 days and goto Europe for 33 weeks and do all the things that you got into this business most of us got in the business because of the Kia sake promise of passive income in becoming wealthy? And so I would just say, Make sure that going into the new year, um, really stand back and think about what you want your life to look like next year at the end of the year, looking back and how much money do you want to put in your bank account? How many were going to spend your time doing Yeah and ah, and and all those things, that's what That's why I actually went to a white. By the way, I went by myself to do that. What kind of leader am I gonna be next year? Where do I want to spend my time? How do I actually want to be a builder, initiator, and be better with my wife and my kids and my friends? And so I would I would do that for everybody. But it's really easy to be on the little rabbit wheel and ah ah, a little hobbit wheel, Right? And, uh, because it really is this is a massively awesome business, and that could give us the wealth and the unlike any other business and sustainability. So, you know, that's that's my final words for everybody. And I can help in any way, you know, real estate investor dot com. I'm on instagram a little bit. I'm not really the millennial. My kids tell me they got like, 1000 followers and and then I have a podcast as well called real estate investor dot com. And I'm gonna get you is another guest, R J. You're You're awesome. So thank thank you for the time you got a great podcast. You got a great loyal group of listeners and Yemen
spk_0: 1:5:58
appreciate it. Awesome guys, that's our episode for today. Like always. I have to start doing this now because I actually have people coming out saying you didn't do your normal sign off. So I guess this is gonna be my new danger. So if you're listening on iTunes, give us a five star rating. If you don't want to give us a five star rating, go give your four or below star rating to someone else and on Lee, give me a five star rating. If you're watching on YouTube, give us the thumbs up and subscribe and share with someone of all the episodes. This was amazing. One. Gary came on and shared a ton of wisdom and gave some great advice. Real estate investor dot com Check it out. Thank you, guys. We'll see you all next week. Thanks so much for listening to the titanium vault with your host R J base that hurt more imposing. To stamp the date, visit www dot podcast dot the titanium vault dot com and on facebook dot com slash the titanium vault. He enjoyed the episode. Please read and review. We'll catch you next time