Jason Pero: 1,000 Doors Owned & Self-Managed

Jason Pero was born and raised in Erie, PA and attended college at nearby Westminster. After college, Jason began a sales career in pharmaceutical and medical device sales. He started his real estate investing career in 2001 when he and his wife purchased their first duplex. He built a portfolio of real estate rental properties while working a career as a medical sales representative. He was able to leave his job in 2012 as the portfolio grew to nearly 300 units. Jason balanced the demands of a high pressure sales environment, a young family, and growing a real estate portfolio. Upon leaving his day job Jason
continued to build his real estate holdings and currently owns around 900 rental apartments. He is the President of his local landlord Apartment Association and a frequent guest on podcasts and occasional speaker at real estate investing conferences. Jason enjoys coaching and mentoring both seasoned and beginner real estate investors. He continues to grow his real estate business but enjoys spending his free time working out, traveling, relaxing with family and friends, attending sporting events and concerts. If you enjoyed this interview remember to leave us a 5 star review!

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Transcript

spk_0:   0:01
It's not real estate investors, entrepreneurs and agents. You're in the right place. Unlocking the secrets to real estate investing in entrepreneurship. Welcome to the time young vaults hosted by R. J. Bates the third. Hey, guys, Welcome to the titanium vault. I'm your host, R. J. Bates. Today I'm sitting down with Jason Peril. How you doing, man?

spk_1:   0:32
I'm great, RJ. How are you? How are you?

spk_0:   0:33
Oh, man, just ah tryingto make it through another day of this corn team locked down lifestyle right now, you and I were kind of chatting before we got on. And I'm interested. Get your take on. You know, the impact that Kobe 19 sat on your business. But for the people that don't know, you briefly kind of give a run down of what it is that you do in real estate investing.

spk_1:   0:54
Yeah, So my wife and I own were mainly buying hold. We We've been buying real estate in Erie, Pennsylvania, and surrounding areas since 2001. Um, 2/3 of our portfolio was just my wife and I stopped that we own, you know, just together. And then 1/3 of that is stuff that we've syndicated over the last Ah, year and 1/2 2 years. Okay. So kind of a nice mix of property. Everything from single family homes, homes up to Ah, you know, a couple 100 unit complexes.

spk_0:   1:23
Gadget. So how did you get your start in and buy and hold real estate?

spk_1:   1:27
So that's, um that's all we ever knew, you know? So when I, uh, when we started out and look to people that we're in real estate, you know, we heard that, You know, people out of money have real estate, and, you know, we're young and few years out of college didn't have didn't have money. And that's what we where we want to go. Um, you know, we just We just thought, Hey, you buy some rental properties, hold onto it in overtime. The tenants would pay that, you know. Okay, the mortgage down at the end of this, you'll have a nice little nice little savings account. Um, and so I didn't know any different, you know? And then later on, we learned about all these other strategies. But that's, um that always seemed like the most logical path to me because, you know, good economic times bad economic times. You always have cash well, coming in. And if you don't have cash for at least you have a hard asset, which which is worth something,

spk_0:   2:20
you know, it's so funny. I get the monitor to be ableto interview investors from across the country and here How everybody got started. I always think it's so funny because everybody's answer about how did you get started? Is pretty unanimous. It's like I didn't know any better. So this is where I found this is what I knew. And this is where I found my nature that, you know, it doesn't matter if you're a wholesaler Flipper buying whole um, you know, So you said, you know, you didn't have a whole lot of money in Union Wife. This is what your figured was the best path for you all this is what you heard to do. So how did you find properties? If you didn't have a whole lot of money backing you?

spk_1:   2:58
Sure you have the time. And we both had well, our first property. She was still in college, finishing up her senior year. I've been working, had a sales job, You know, we both got into medical sit Ellison. And so we had. She's a pharmaceutical rep, and I was a medical device. Sales wrapped. And we, you know, we made good money. Um, we're still young, so we started saving everything we could and, you know, just it was networking. You know, we talked to, you know, a family friend who knew somebody who knew somebody that had rental properties and everybody, of course, and try and talk you out of it. But as I got to meet these people, and you know, they were where I wanted to go, and I thought it was such a cool thing, that man, you know, you have these rental properties and whether it was, you know, most people I met early on, it was just ah, extra income, right? It wasn't till several years in that I met people that actually had enough that did it for a living and saw that that was possible. And so I just you know that we just It was just trying to meet people. Whether it was like somebody posted an ad in the newspaper they used to do that. We were there was selling property, and you call a number and they got some property for sale and just getting to getting to meet no people like that. And and, uh um, I was that was it. It was just a simple, simple thing, because everybody knows somebody who has a rental property, right? We don't get

spk_0:   4:18
a couple young millennials that are like, You mean like the ads that they post on the web sites, you know? Yeah, it was actually, man, I remember those days back in the day to So, um, you know, it's funny, because I remember, you know, before I got in the real estate investing and I would talk to people that owned a couple of properties Then just remembering how amazing that that seemed like, Oh, my five houses, you know, and and now that I'm in it, it's like it's it's a lot easier. And it actually seemed it seemed unattainable on the right back then. Um you know, So you guys, you are saving up. You start buying properties a two point time. Did you kind of make the decision that Hey, this is probably what I want to do for my career.

spk_1:   5:11
Yeah, eso really on our goal was to, you know, to buy enough to be able to, like, you know, quote unquote retire or leave room for day job. And again the goals kept changing. You know, you know, this is like before kids, you know, And then, um, you know, kept getting better and better day job. So we're making more income and and, you know, we live really cheap early on, but, you know, we knew that was what we wanted to do, And I kept moving the goalposts. You know, it was once I get this money, I'll quit. Once I get this money, I'll quit. And so ultimately, it came down to, like in 2012. I left my day job. We build up to just about under 300 units. It was like, 292 minutes or something. Um, but now we have built, you know, we had to hire the property managers, maintenance people, all that stuff. But it's just started getting out of hand. I mean, just hard to do things and doing well when you're, you know, you're balancing, you know, really demanding day job along with, you know, the demands of running a rental property business. So So, you know, I knew early on I wanted work for myself. Knew I didn't want to work for somebody else for the rest of Italy. So the goals were pretty clear early on, but kind of fumbled our way through, you know, the 1st 10 11 years to to get to where we were. But that's only

spk_0:   6:25
make patients, though. I mean, they wait until you get to 300 units. Game. I don't know about you, for anybody listens. My podcast. They all know my story. It took me about, you know, three deals before I was like, Hey, I'm all in. This is what I'm doing way

spk_1:   6:44
Did it the old fashioned way were you know, we were saving because I didn't again. We didn't know any different, like right, E. We saved up money for down payments, and I like How the heck would anybody have, you know, be ableto got by 100 unit or 200 unit and things like that? So we kept, you know, saving our money. You know, building up equity did a couple strategic refinances I didn't know the first thing about for the longest time, about hard money. I didn't know anything about partners Indications. And so, you know, when we quit her date, you know, she left her job in 2010 myself in 2012. That was sort of going to the next level with, you know, with hard money and partners and some people. It's maybe, you know, a reverse strategy. I think a lot of people start out that way. But I think for us that allowed us to partner up a little bit more confidently knowing that Hey, look, we already have the strong basis of property, you know, strong bases, income coming in. If this new deal doesn't go exactly as planned, you know, I don't need it to eat. And so that that would allow us to maybe kind of approaching a more confident way and give our investors a little bit more confidence. And then same thing with the syndications. It's like, Hey, here's just another another level. And it wasn't like I needed that t live on.

spk_0:   7:53
Yeah, I mean, because I'm going to go out on a limb and say the majority of my listeners are people that probably gotten into real estate investing within the last you know, probably five or six years, right? And in the the path that you're taught nowadays is yet leverage other people's money. Whether it's hard money, private money anywhere you can, you're not You're not putting any of your own money in. Yeah, you came from this much different path and yeah, the that's probably one of the top questions that I get is is oh, I'm not confident in going out and using somebody else's money when I haven't done it yet myself. I mean, you had built such a strong portfolio when when you finally quit that job and now you're at 300 units in your full time in it, I mean, talk about the change and just mindset in your day to day activities within your business because I'm sure that you have been doing it for 10 or 11 years. I mean, that's a big change to now. Hey, I'm full time in this. What was that process like?

spk_1:   8:59
Yeah, I mean, it was ah, several year process to really get comfortable with myself is as a state leader, business owner, but being able to hire and fire people well, and you know, I think that early on it was that adjustment of I had all these people working for me. And now I'm here, you know, now And instead of instead of just a phone call, I'm actually here here, write in it every day. So that was, like, a huge mental adjustment. And then, you know, just keep keep growing and taking care of our initial original portfolio. I mean, um, it was a several year adjustment, to be honest. I mean, we kept growing. But, you know, I had to really, like, figure out how to be a better business owner and and, you know, hire people, hire people better and hire better people and how to manage better. And then all of those types of all those types of things how to systematize our business, you know, we way just didn't stop at 300 units. You know, we're more than triple that size now and figuring all of those things out. So it was, um, to say it was easy. It would be Well, I mean, it was hard, you know, we struggled through, you know, mentally, financially, emotionally. Just how do we make this thing work? Because it wasn't as easy as just like, Hey, I quit my job and this is gonna be great. It was like I quit my job. Shit. Now you know me thinking, How do

spk_0:   10:17
I go with time management with that? Did you struggle with time management when you first quit? That sounds like an oxymoron, but it's like you were so used to Hey, don't we have so many hours and day due to my job? And then also it's like I have 24 hours, seven days a week, and there's so many things that you want to do as, like a visionary or the CEO Did you kind of struggle with where maybe your time was focused on

spk_1:   10:44
I did. I mean, it was like and again, it's the old saying of working on the business, not in the business, but that really takes time to figure that out. And it's okay to I think it's OK to struggle with that because then you really realize what what's important where your time is best spent. I mean, um, you know, some people just get it right away, and I and I admire that ability to say, Oh, I just work on my business, you know, there, 22 years old. That's awesome. I mean, I wish I had that 20 years ago, in my case. But you know, you we all kind of go at our own pace. And I think for me that so the time management of, like, that's okay for me. God, like, I need to understand what's going on in the business. But I have to work on the business. And so now you know, it becomes much more of Ah, um you know, I I jump in the minutia when it's required Where before our call, I had a have a long conversation with one of my property managers about a situation they were dealing with. Um, so it's not necessarily me working on the business, but it was providing some coaching and some insight action steps that they had to take. Um, yeah, but early on, it would be like it was have people working for me, but I would also want to be involved in a lot of stuff. Now, you know, we just figured out I've gotten people that thrive in creating systems and following systems and having processes, and so We've gotten nothing. The people before they were all fine, but they weren't really growth oriented. And they weren't really along, too, to help grow themselves. You know, if they grow themselves, they can help grow our business and you know it. All of our goals and values are aligned properly. So,

spk_0:   12:22
you know, he answered, Yeah, no, And and some of the feedback that I've heard from people on the reason why I wanted touch based on this is because I know there's a lot of people out there that are either wholesaling or buying rentals or flipping a house here there. They're trying to build up their cash reserves before they quit that job because they're so used to that job paying the bills well. One thing that you have to understand is is that if you're used to your job providing you, you know, finances in capital Andi, that's what's supporting you. It's also supporting you and structure within your life, and then when you become a full time entrepreneur, it could be very daunting when suddenly it's now. There's not somebody there to tell you where to me when to be, what to do and and I know that sounds crazy, cause, like for you, you could have been even. We're doing this for 11 years. 12 years, you know? And then also it's like, now what? You know. It's like, you know, now you got to get in it and you want to grow it. And you're so excited and it's very hard. And I still struggle with it from time to time, where it's like I have so many different ideas. And it's like, What am I supposed to focus on today? No. And, ah, it's It's definitely one of those topics that at, you know, majority of real estate investors say they struggle with, though once you know, you talk about your team, um, what's kind of jump into today, What the team looks like? I know you have a property management property manager, but who else is on the team and what does that look like?

spk_1:   13:53
So So, yeah, we have, you know, a handful of property managers, so we have about 850 units right now. I sold some things and we're adding in the next month, you know, we're adding another 160 so we're gonna be a little over 1000 units. Right at, um, you know, by by the end of may, basically. And, um, so we have site managers at two different portfolios. Um, you know, dedicated maintenance staff A those those two larger sites. And then I've got a Siris of maintenance guys and office staff, um, for everything else. And so we have, you know, a 1,000,000 office manager slash business manager. Our main property managers really came in to be groomed to to be, you know, our asset manager, slash operations manager. And so now he not only overseas, you know, does a lot of the day today property management or most of it. But you also manages those particular site managers and helps build our processes and systems. And so I did that by design because I finally realized like, Hey, I gave I give up others. There's stuff that I'm not good at that I need You know, we need people that are better than than me on this stuff. And still, um, So there's that and we've because we do like the self managing. We have our list of subcontractors and things like that. But we have quite, ah quite a few 1,000,000. That's guys on staff. You know, they handle everything from a long care, you know, Snow removal, all that, all this kind of stuff. So, um, so it's, you know, it's it's hard to, you know, for a long time was hard to manage in house because you're building a company. You're building a system. Um, but once I realized that, you know, we actually needed a system in place and And follow these, you know, it just, you know, you just kind of have to eat crap for a little bit. You know what? When you when you've done it may be wrong, or you haven't optimized it for a while. You know, you really need just kind of sit on your hands. Let what these people do, what they do and be patient with with the process of building, you know, building a better machine.

spk_0:   16:06
So you brought up that, you know, you have a couple of assets that you've syndicated. Yeah. What point time? Did you kind of add that to your tool belt on? But what was that process like?

spk_1:   16:16
So, you know, like awake with a lot of things. I knew it existed for a long time. I think I probably started reading about syndication and the late two thousands, like, 0708 kind of understood it at the time. But in my mind, I had this mental block of, like, man. Why would I want partners? You know, why do I want all these hands in the cookie jar? And I didn't really understand how it worked. And, um, I just thought it was a partnership, you know, And and I was like, the control. I always like being able to run our deals, not knowing a whole while that that's you know what, it would you know what it was. But probably about four years ago, I met a gentleman who became my our Coast code partner or co GP and our syndications. He had a wide, wide business background in other areas farming, food production, like trucking. Although all these different things and he had they had sold a company for a substantial amount of money about 12 13 years ago, and they syndicated. They created syndication, but was all within their family of some really nice real estate in Sarasota. And, um, so over a period, of a few years ago, we kept talking, building our friendship. You know, we knew that we wanted to, uh, you know, the partner up in something. I just don't know what it looked like. And a few years back, I was on a podcast. The gentleman that put the podcast on invited myself about a dozen others to his house and said, Hey, I'm putting the other. This mastermind you want come be part of the 1st 1 and see how it goes. And at that group, you know, like I said, there was about a dozen of us. A few more, you know, including him in his life and his brother and things like that that we like. I'm sitting in a room with people, and I'm trying to figure out what's next. I know that I have been toying around the syndication idea, and it was just, you know, it really speaks to the power of the map of masterminded. You know, some people looking at me like, Oh, my gosh, You got all these units and no partners. I'm looking at that like you have all these units. He syndicated. Just Somebody said one thing that at that meeting and I went home and started. I got it like it clicked in my brain. And then, like, two months later, in our first large deal, Teoh to raise capital before came along and it was scary. It was exciting, but he had never raised money from on that scale before. You have done a lot of one on one, you know, like part types of things. But nothing. Nothing in that, you know, along that scope for size. So right did. It was a lot easier, you know, than we expected. Another deal came along, just, you know, And it was all just something that somebody said it. That that one like Saturday morning, like, All right, click to my brain. Why? Why have I've been, like, so stupid and not thinking thinking about this in the proper way on. And then from there, it just, you know, it's it's been a nice new addition to our portfolio.

spk_0:   19:08
Yeah, man, You know, I've talked about how masterminds have changed my life, and it is so funny, Man, everything that you just said there, it's like, why don't I do a podcast low? Because it's, you know, I did a couple of podcasts. They opened up opportunities to me, and the the second podcast ever did was with Don Costa. And then Don Causton invited me to Fresno, California, to his first ever mastermind. And then from there I met my largest private money lender at Don Casas. Mastermind. So it's like the correlations of our stories is so funny. And that's why do a podcast now. That's why I own a mastermind now, because it's just I saw the impact of these these events taking place and they changed my life. It changed your life, obviously, you know, you were already on a path of success. But now this just opens it up where, you know, you could do so much more so much quicker. Yep, and that's Ah, it's a testament to both being on podcast, putting yourself out there, just sharing your journey, you know, I mean, that's all you were doing is just rocking about what you were doing and it opened up. You know yourself there opportunities, and it's funny because most time we do podcasts, we think it's because it's gonna be somebody listening to the podcast. But it could be like the other host of the guests. Who knows what it's gonna be. Eso That's amazing. Um, so now how many deals have you syndicated since that moment?

spk_1:   20:37
So we've, uh we've completed two large syndications, and then we're closing our third in next month here, Um, that's all. All stuff that local teary Pennsylvania. You know, I've resisted the urge to do too much of it, you know, on bats, three deals in a year and 1/2. You know, it's ah, I'd rather put a

spk_0:   21:03
large deals, you know, And honestly, you're at a place right now where I'm making assumptions, but you're probably not wanting to grow to rapidly. You're just going to make sure you grow with quality, not quantity. Right?

spk_1:   21:17
Right. Absolutely. And you know, that's one of the downsides of a mastermind or going to the different boot camps and seminars is that you can start comparing yourself to everybody else like Oh, my God. These guys closed 1000 units last year took me 20 years, and you start comparing yourself to others that that's something I think that is like you have to avoid. I mean, we're all guilty. We're all guilty of that, like, you know, trying to compare ourselves to others. But what I really realized that I mean, yeah, I I get a lot of joy out of doing this indications, And I have a ton of fun with, you know, raising money and providing value. And, you know, we're like, No, we give real returns to our investors. You know, we just have a, like, a fun time doing it, but, um, but at the same time, yeah, I mean, I'm you know, we want to do quality deals. No, we don't have to do these to eat, but it's a nice way to transition over time, like some of the smaller properties. And, uh um, and again, we done it a long time. I have nothing but admiration for guys that just start out and go right into syndication. You know, i e guess I wish I had the, you know, the nerve and the confidence and the willingness to do it when I was younger. Um, but on the other hand, will work for me. Was that building it up and say, hey, making all these mistakes, be it you know, from the way we bought something to the way we managed it to what we bought or how we handled repairs or whatever, whatever the case is. But, um, you know that that's what works for me. So when we get into a larger deal and you know right now, Mid Corona virus can dynamic crisis, you know we can exude confidence to our investors and not every investor's confident, You know, they all have different walks of life backgrounds, but, um, being able to speak from experience without as opposed to how we think it's going to go, you know, and that's that's, you know, that's what helps me sleep better at night.

spk_0:   23:09
Well, you're ah, you're preaching my story, man. I have been on ah to probably gas within Let the last week and 1/2 1 with Alex, part O the Flip Empire and then Aaron Bevin's out of San Antonio, and I literally quoted in both of them. Comparison is the thief of joy because exactly what we talk about. Men go into the masterminds being on podcasts and, you know, listening to someone like you saying and I've got 1000 units by the end of May, and that makes me want to run out of here and be like we need 1000 units by the end of May. Yeah, it's just that competitive nature of being an entrepreneur. And so I appreciate you saying that because, you know, look your fight by all means ever by its listening, they should look it with your journey and and be like, man, that's awesome. And and consider you super successful for where you are. But even you were finding yourself saying, But I could be doing more because this other what this other person is doing, Um, in most everybody out there probably would have told you like No, dude, you're going just fine. I come down, you know, exactly. And it's just it's funny, it's human nature. So just, you know, don't get caught up in all that. You know, we're you know, we're sharing Jason story right now because to help you not so you compare and be like, why don't have 1000 units. So I need to go out there and do this or I need to syndicate, you know, he started off with, you know, one or two deals at a time, using his own money. So But I appreciate you bringing up, you know, the Corona virus and where we are with that. So, you know, obviously you've got a ton of units. How is this impacted you? And what does that look like? Since this all kind of sir bottom fell out a couple

spk_1:   24:51
of weeks ago. Yeah, so? So on. Um, the easy answer is that there's very minimal disruption. And you know what I've been saying along for us? You know, investing in your e Pennsylvania. You know, we're a tertiary market located, you know, for those aren't familiar with eerie, were located on Lake Erie in between Cleveland Buffalo, like directly directly north of Pittsburgh and right between Cleveland Buffalo on a map. So we're about an hour and 1/2 from each of those cities. Um, you know, we're not really a suburb of them were way our own thing, but greater metro area of 320,000 or so blue collar area. Yeah, people. People's incomes were affected by the pandemic in a lot of people lost their their income. But on the other side of that, um, you know, our average rent for an apartment is not that much, you know, in years. So if you have a complex where the average right, it's a $700 a month. Well, if the average tenant at that complex, you know, makes you know, say, three or $4000 a month, they can afford the rent when they go on unemployment, you know? And, you know, we when this whole thing hit, You know, we did not give the tenants the infamous, like, screw you pass the pass right, And that that that approach can work. And I don't want to criticize anybody else's way of doing business. Yours was more of a, you know, just just sort of leaving with compassion, you know, reaching out to people, checking in on if they're ok, you know, they know their rents do. Um, you know, we had people that Azaz April hit, you know, checking in with them and again, not not pounding them about it. But like, Hey, what's up? You know, just want to check and see where things were at. We hadn't seen your rent. And the vast majority of people it's that were late. It was a matter of waiting for their stimulus check or their unemployment. Um, you know, the vast majority? No, that is the economy opens back up. Then things start to come tryto inch back to normal over the coming months that, you know, they're gonna have income. And again, if they totally lost their job, they're still in an area where they can obtain other employment Now will help them pay their bills. And so So we've had some disruption in There are a few tenants that haven't paid, you know, that have avoided the phone calls and things like that. But it's it's a very small percentage. I mean, out of, um, out of the 850 tenants at the very this very second that we collect, ran on and handle maintenance on. I got four out of that. You know, that could be a problem. So the rest rest of either paid or we know the date that the payments are coming in, you know?

spk_0:   27:35
So you talk about that you are purchasing another asset, and you're closing by the end of May, and I you know, I just interviewed Stephen Morris a couple weeks ago, and he's out of Cleveland, Ohio, the he owns like humans take 700 doors or something like that, you know? And I saw him post on Facebook the other day that, you know, he's buying another 80 something. Units? Yeah. Was there ever a concern about the value? Are the purchase price of where you're buying this asset or the stability of where we're gonna be because of the unknowing, You know, just hey, we don't know where we're gonna become the in a May or the beginning of June. Was that ever a concern for you? To a

spk_1:   28:20
certain degree, but not not enough that it would cause us to abandon the deal or abandon our plan. And the reason being, you know, we my wife and I closed our first deal, which was a duplex. But in any event, it was still a week before 9 11 on, you know, And then we kept buying, and we bought through 2008 and we were able to take advantage of the economic opportunity at the time. And, you know, um, being that were close to Cleveland, you know, awful of Pittsburgh. We look at those markets and say, certainly, you know, single family homes, certain types of assets could be the A problem. You know, I certainly would be, um probably a lot more fearful in my end if I was mid mid stream on a large value out of saying like Atlanta or Nashville or some some larger growing market. Um, but I have a little bit of contrarian view on growing markets. I think that to me that the sexiness or the appeal of a deal for me has always been like Yuri's as boring as it gets. You know, Cleveland could be as boring as it gets, and that's okay, you know, because the value, you know, the right values aren't gonna I mean, I guess you can ever really predict anything. I mean, I don't know that any of us sort of thought we would be in the middle of this thing right now, but I don't know that, you know, the average rents in Cleveland are going to get dropped 50% so I love a value ideal. But I think that, you know, I would not be projecting like, hey, we're gonna take these rents from 700 to 1506 months. Eso for the deals were buying we are pushing the rounds, but we did a very modest increase to still stay below the market average for competitive units. So, for instance, the deal we're buying the rents right now average out it about 6 50 The competitive rents for the same type of product in our marketer Hi, eight hundreds. And all we're looking to do is push the ransom $100 you know, But by providing a similar product So we didn't have to stress the numbers, make all these things work and make all these wild assumptions to make the deal work. So we, um and we give ourselves time to achieve that. So he said, Hey, we would have a two year runway two to be able to push the rants and be ableto complete that construction and things like that. The only push the rents $100. And so, you know, I think that that we looked at it from a very conservative standpoint and said, Hey, you know, those 1st 2 years weaken, we're gonna cap are returns to our investors at 8% cash on cash. And then after you're too, you know, we'll bump those up to what we're actually doing. So we're we're not setting ourselves up for, you know, failed expectations, right? Not setting ourselves up for a failed deal or anything like that. So So not so long.

spk_0:   31:04
Yeah, but I appreciate it because that conservative, you know, underwriting or analysis, or just standpoint, how whatever you want to put it, um, I think that's a consensus amongst, you know, almost everybody that I've talked to right now is just saying, Look, hey, if you're wholesaler, you know hey, go 10% You know, discount on the air V right? A watery them. And instead of trying to sell it at 75 or 78% of the A B minus repairs go down to 65 or 70. Ah, you know, same thing with flippers. You know, I Hadley Carney on the podcasts, and, you know, he's flip 7000 houses, you know? I mean, the dude is unbelievable. And then he was saying the same. They just be super conservative, you know, tighten everything up and you're saying the same thing about buying hold like, Hey, you have every right to go into this deal and say we could be shooting for the high eight hundreds that we just want to go up to the mid seven hundreds. But would that be with being that conservative your only allowing yourself to exceed expectations. And if you don't? Hey, you know, if the bottom falls out, this gets even worse than it already is. Which, quite frankly, I don't know how it could be much more Mercer awkward or just unprecedented. That hurt. He is right now, um, you know, you're probably gonna be right on the mark. And so that's a great way to approach this, you know, for the people that are listening and and maybe, you know, buying holders not been someone that they looked at our small, multi family, even large multi family. What advice could you give to someone that has been either a flipper wholesaler only. And they're like, Hey, this this sounds great. And I want to start building passive income. What's the first steps that you would tell somebody to take?

spk_1:   32:56
But I think the first steps in, um, you know, looking to convert into passive income is just, um So it's a read and re read Whatever, whatever book or you know, um, no, you know, whatever you can to increase your knowledge. So whether it's re re reading Rich Dad, Poor dad way. You know, if you look at the cash flow quadrant, you know, what quadrant do you want to be in, right? And the best places that to be able to make money while you sleep. And I think that buy and hold to a large extent does that, you know, And so course early on, you know, if you're buying, if you're just buying something to manage it yourself, you're gonna be putting in the work. But you're creating something that can that can feed you while you sleep on dso I think that that's that's the biggest thing. So it's maybe a little bit of a shift in mindset. Um, you know, like a duplex isn't gonna give you that same bump is a You know, it is a nice cash out on a flip, but I've also come around shift. My mindset were, you know, 20 years ago all I was gonna do is buy and hold, buy and hold that. No, look, I like a nice little wholesale fear or, you know, profit on a flip. So I've come around to incorporating, incorporating that into my life. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Nothing. You write it like you can get a successful wholesaler and make a ton of income. But, you know Well, how long am I going to do this? And what am I gonna do to set myself up to have another diverse string stream of income? So So I think, you know, just listening. The more podcasts reading more books, but then and I just start networking and find other people that have, you know, buying hold assets and see how they've done it and just just kind of network and talk to people. And you're really, um and that'll help builder confidence as faras. All right, now I've got a stack of cash. Well, what am I gonna do with that? I'm gonna be a wholesaler for the next 40 years of my life. I am I gonna take the sack witty and invest in things that that I can, you know, make money while I sleep and and And that's really in my mind. That's the key.

spk_0:   34:52
Always. So Wholesalers, if you've been doing this for a while and you have quite a few under your belt. Go back and look and see how those properties perform. Especially the properties that you wholesale to the buy and hold guys. I go back and see. I mean, there's, you know, probably a trail of, you know, Hey, did they, you know, Did they rent it out that they did They do a value, add that they re have the property, you know, Was our pay cash out refi at some point time or even just following up with them and saying, Hey, you know, we have sold your property while about you know how to turn out? Yeah, just, you know, some customer service there. But it's also educational toe here. The different struggles and the tribulations that you know different investors have to overcome because look in a day, anybody advice, properties will tell you. Hey, there's always a story that goes along with each one right? They all can perform a little bit differently, you know, different unique tenants and processes, and it's much as we try to make it black and white and say this is how it's gonna go. They all kind of have their own little individual personalities and different things can happen. So exactly. But Jason. Hey, man, I appreciate you taking the time today. Any final thoughts before we sign off?

spk_1:   36:10
No, I mean, I think you know, for your listeners, just, um everybody's starts a different place, and I think that, you know, just just keep doing it. Let's keep fighting the fight. I mean, progress is better than perfection, so that's really just tried one of monsters I live by, um, you know, trying to trying to perfect something is a fruitless endeavour, you know? So so just try to be better than you were the day before. Andi will go far.

spk_0:   36:34
Absolutely, Man, we'll be thinking of you. Ah, hopefully your closings. That may go the way they're supposed to go. Thank you for taking the time. And congratulations on getting back over 1000 units. Now, that's it's beyond impressive, man. And ah, I think the key thing here out of this interview is you know, Jason, I both agree that, you know, masterminds air are huge asset to your business, but make sure if you're a part of a mastermind, you know, don't get in. That comparison is the thief of joy. Don't compare yourself to other people. Just live your journey and then also get out there and share your journey through podcasts. You never know who you're gonna talk to and how it can change your life. Guys, that's our apps over this week. Hope you enjoyed it. Remember, if you're listening on iTunes, give us a five star rating. If you're watching on YouTube, give us a thumbs up and hit the subscribe button. Thanks, guys. Thanks so much for listening to the Titania involved with your host, R. J. Bates, that there are more imposing. To stamp the date, visit www dot podcast on the titanium vault dot com on facebook dot com slash the titanium vault. He enjoyed the episode. Please rate in review, and we'll catch you next time.