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The Titanium Vault hosted by RJ Bates III
RJ Bates III, affectionately referred to as the Viking Wizard by his students, started his real estate investing career in 2014 after attending a real estate education program that put him $65,000 in debt. RJ contracted his first deal he found on the MLS and wholesaled it for a $7,500 assignment fee. That was the end of his former life and the beginning of his venture into becoming a real estate investor. Since that moment, RJ has become an influential figurehead in the real estate investing industry. He has successfully purchased and sold over 2,000 properties all across the USA including wholesale deals, rehabs, rentals, owner finances and short term rentals. One of his passions is being the host of The Titanium Vault Podcast where he interviews the top real estate investors and finally, RJ has won back to back Closers Olympics earning him the reputation as the King Closer!
The Titanium Vault hosted by RJ Bates III
How To Get The Best Deal From Sellers Every Time!
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If you’re new to my channel my name is RJ Bates III. Myself and my partner Cassi DeHaas are the founders of Titanium Investments.
We are nationwide virtual wholesalers and on this channel we share EVERYTHING that we do inside our business. So if you’re looking to close more deals - at higher assignments - anywhere in the country… You’re in the right place.
Who is Titanium Investments and What Have We Accomplished?
Over 10 years in the real estate investing business
Closed deals in all 50 states
Owned rentals in 12 states
Flipped houses in 11 states
Closed on over 2,000 properties
125 contracts in 50 days (all live on YouTube)
Back to back Closers Olympics Champion
Trained thousands of wholesalers to close more deals
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So let's talk about asking a seller for their asking price early on in the conversation. Now, if you've followed me for any period of time, you've seen me talk to sellers, you've seen me teach the closers formula and you guys know the second question that I ask each and every seller is how much are you looking to get for the property? And I feel like that is the most effective way to close as many deals as possible. Now, I also am completely open for debates around how to talk to sellers, when and why we should ask the questions that we ask, and one of the places that this open forum exists is inside of our free Facebook group, the Vault. Now, a gentleman by the name of Keith Gillespie, who I'm not I don't really know Keith, but he's been a member of the vault for a while he posted the other day and he shared a little infographic and then his thoughts around whether or not you should ask the seller for their asking price early on. Now he disagrees with me, and that's completely OK. I wanted to hear him out and I did. I saw his response and I read his post and I'm going to share that with you here in a second and this isn't to call Keith out. It's just to have a debate about the process and why I feel the way I do around the closers formula and asking early on in the conversation about the asking price. Now I saw Keith shared this in multiple groups around the internet. Right, and I think it's because he's trying to provide value and it looks like he has a coaching program that he's doing these value posts to get people to follow him and then eventually get them to sign up for his program. We all do some more tactics, so I don't have a problem with that. Even inside of my group, I allow that to be there. I've allowed this supposed to be there, but when I see someone take such a strong stance like this, this infographic, the three hard truths that took me three years and over $100,000 to learn about real estate investing.
Speaker 1:One asking sellers, what do you want for the property is the worst way to start a conversation. Now, obviously, because he says it's the worst way to start a conversation. I want to have a debate about that because I disagree with that standpoint. I want to have a debate about that because I disagree with that standpoint. Now he goes further, inside of his actual post, to say asking sellers what do you want for the property is the worst way to start a conversation. Most new investors lead with price. They think if they can just get the seller to toss out a number, they can work backwards and squeeze in a deal. Here's the problem. That question anchors high, kills trust and tells the seller you're just another low baller.
Speaker 1:When I stopped asking about price and started asking about motivation, the entire dynamic changed. I remember a seller in South Carolina who wanted $135,000. When I slowed down and actually listened, I found out he was dealing with a nasty probate situation and just wanted to be done with it. He didn't need $135,000. He needed closure. I bought the property for $65,000 with terms. Most people get stuck trying to win a negotiation. What actually works is getting sellers to want to work with you because you understand their situation better than anyone else. When you stop chasing numbers and start solving problems, everything gets easier Acquisitions, negotiations, referrals. That's when this starts to feel like a real business. Okay, so quite a bit to unpack there.
Speaker 1:On Keith's take, I will say that when you ask a seller for their asking price up front, it should eliminate your need to lowball the seller. So I just wanted to say that up front. I want to bring this back up because I want to go line item by line item on his take here. He says most new investors lead with price. I actually disagree with that pretty adamantly. In fact, I think most investors or wholesalers are actually taught to do the price at the end. It's about condition and timeline and their occupancy, and then they get the price. And that's why I've always disagreed with that technique, because once you get to the price at the end, then it strictly becomes a numbers-oriented conversation and I want to avoid that as much as possible, especially if the seller is truly motivated. Because my take is the two most important things that we need to determine when talking to a seller is price and motivation.
Speaker 1:Now he says that these new investors that are leading with price, they think they can just get the seller to toss out a number and then they can work backwards and squeeze in a deal. Well, that is accurate. I mean, that's what we're doing. No matter what is that, we are trying to squeeze in, as a wholesaler, our ability to make it a win for the seller, a win for the end buyer, and then, as as the wholesaler also, we need to make margin ourselves to make it a win. So yes, that's accurate.
Speaker 1:The the problem is that when we ask for the price up front, he says it anchors high.
Speaker 1:It kills trust and tells the seller you're just another low baller, okay.
Speaker 1:So one, I disagree that it anchors high. It does anchor the conversation it does. I have always said who owns the anchor? The first person that throws out a price. The other person owns the anchor at that point, because if a seller tells me 100,000, my initial thought is well, they would easily accept 90,000. I could build in enough value for them to accept 90,000. Whereas if I say 100,000, the seller believes that they could get me up to 110,000. Whereas if I say 100,000, the seller believes that they could get me up to 110,000.
Speaker 1:Killing trust. I have no idea where that comes from. If I were to call a seller and say hey, mr Seller, are you looking to sell 123 Main Street? And they say yes, and you say how much are you asking for it? And they give you a number of $100,000. I have no idea how that kills trust, because every on-market real estate transaction comes with an asking price.
Speaker 1:The only reason why we feel like it's weird to ask for that price is because we have determined in our brains that we shouldn't ask a seller for an asking price because it's direct to seller marketing and for whatever reason. We believe that we need to talk about their condition, their motivation, their timeline, their occupancy before we talk about money, whereas everything should be based around what do you have in mind for getting this property? Simultaneously to that, going back to the anchor's high, I think if you ask a seller for an asking price early on, if anything, you're getting a more real and legitimate asking price than if you do, if you allow them to get comfortable in the conversation by talking about their motivation, their condition and occupancy and the timeline, and then you get the hey, how much do you want for it? I believe at that point you've allowed them to get so comfortable that they would actually give you a higher number than they would early on in the conversation. How it tells the seller that we're just another low baller, I have no idea where that comes from. It's literally embracing your role in the conversation, which is the buyer hey, you're selling something. What is your asking price Now? He said. When he stopped asking about price and started asking about motivation, the entire dynamic changed Now I would agree that talking about a seller's motivation is more important than price. Motivation is the single most important thing for you to talk about inside of a seller conversation. Now, this is the example and this is why it made me chuckle.
Speaker 1:Keith says he remembers a seller in South Carolina who wanted $135,000. But when he slowed down and actually listened, he found out he was dealing with a nasty probate situation and then he just needed closure and he bought the property for $65,000 with terms. Okay, your point here on saying you shouldn't ask a seller how much they want for the property, how would you have known that the seller in South Carolina wanted $135,000, but would take $65,000 if you didn't ask? That is a perfect example of why you should ask a seller for their asking price early on. So let's dive into the closer formula. Hey, mr Seller, saw you build out a form or spoke to someone on my team about your property there in South Carolina? Are you still looking to sell? Yes, I am Awesome. How much are you looking to get for it? $135,000. Okay, $135,000. Well, tell me a little bit about what you got going on, aka explain your motivation.
Speaker 1:When we ask that open-ended question, what happens more often than not is the extreme level of motivation that this seller had. He's in a probate situation, he just wants closure, he wants to be done with the property, he doesn't want to deal with it anymore, and so we're really doing a deep dive into their motivation. But we know that early on that seller told us that their initial asking price was $135,000. So as we're asking these open-ended questions and we're finding out, hey, it's a probate and he just wants closure, you can ask questions like well, how much money do you really need in your pocket? How did you come up with $135,000? The reason why I like to get the dollar amount early on is because sometimes money is actually part of their motivation. So we do need to discuss that, even if it's early on in the conversation.
Speaker 1:Now, in this example that Keith gave us, this seller was in a probate situation and wanted closure. One of the questions that I would ask that seller how much money do you need or do you want for closure? And I'm assuming at some point in time during that conversation, that's how Keith was able to get this South Carolina seller down to $65,000. He said $65,000 with terms. I don't know what those terms look like, but he still was able to get it down, but he still knew that price early on. It doesn't have to be a low ball. Now let's talk about the most common type of seller that we're going to speak to the highly motivated but incorrect price. So we ask this seller fits this bucket $135,000,? We need to get it for $65,000. As we're going through that conversation, let's say the seller doesn't naturally price drop himself.
Speaker 1:By disclosing his motivation and his needs and everything like that, we educate the seller. We do not lowball the seller. I do not believe in low balling ever. It doesn't really have a place in our industry outside of poor coaches and teachers that don't know how to close. See, if I were on the ball in this cellar and I'm looking at it, then he's asking me 135,000. I would ask him how did you come up with that number?
Speaker 1:Let's talk about the condition that the property's in and then I educate them on what the property could be worth if the property were fixed up, how much money it would take to achieve that after repair value. And then it's math, not magic. From that point on, utilizing our profit calculator, it's very simple If the property can be worth $150,000, but it's going to take $40,000 in repairs to achieve that. Mr Seller, it's just math. At that point I've got holding costs, I've got closing costs and I want to make profit. This is how I'm achieving my offer of $65,000.
Speaker 1:If you can get the seller to agree to the ARV and the rehab, the rest of the math they don't really argue with because they're fixed numbers holding costs, closing costs and profit. They don't argue about those. The only two numbers that's really up for debate is what the property could be worth fixed up and how much it would cost to fix it there. Once you get the seller to agree to those two numbers, the education is done and that's where the offer is and it's not a low ball. And what does this do? It builds credibility and trust with the seller.
Speaker 1:So going back to what Keith had originally said right, what do you want for the property is the worst way to start a conversation, because down here it says it kills trust Incorrect, I believe, if anything. If the price is incorrect early on, it actually establishes trust and credibility. If we need to offer less than what they're asking, because there's a process there, yes, motivation is vitally important, if not the most important part of this conversation. In fact, I'm on record saying numerous times if the seller is not motivated, then we should not attempt to even close it. We have a seller bucket for that Incorrect price, no motivation. That is immediately a dead lead and we move that over to there is a better solution for you. It is not by selling your property to an investor. So, that being said, I still wholeheartedly believe Now Keith did give me my flowers on the post.
Speaker 1:He said out of all the people in the industry, he believes I do it the best. He did ask some questions Again. I preached this for years. At this point, I have explained my thought process behind why, and we have proven that it is successful, not only with myself and my own closings online and on this YouTube channel, but also with the Titanium University members that are coming in and using the exact same closers formula successfully.
Speaker 1:Do they all do it the right way? No, some of them still need work. That's why we do weekly live seller call reviews to get better, to aim for perfection when we're doing this, but it is the process and I wholeheartedly believe that it establishes credibility early on. It establishes that you're an actual, real buyer instead of trying to play this mind game of like. Well, tell me why you're looking to sell this property and talk to me about the condition, and talk to me about the timeline and the occupancy, and all this before we ever even discuss a number. It does not make sense. The other thing that this adds is efficiency to your business, which every wholesaler and real estate investor should be striving to maximize their efficiency inside their business.
Speaker 1:If you're speaking to a seller that wants full retail, deserves full retail and does not need to sell their property for a discount or creatively, then why would we waste our time, our effort, our energy and our resources continuing to have a conversation with them, our energy and our resources continuing to have a conversation with them? We should. So, at the end of the day, should we ask sellers for their price early on the conversation? Absolutely. I have yet to see another person be able to close better, more contracts at a higher assignment fee than we do, and that is how we do it. So that is why I stand by. Ask the sellers early on how much are you asking for that property? Let me know what you guys think in the comments. Appreciate each and every one of them. Make sure you give me a like on today's video. We'll see you guys, tomorrow.