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The Titanium Vault hosted by RJ Bates III
RJ Bates III, affectionately referred to as the Viking Wizard by his students, started his real estate investing career in 2014 after attending a real estate education program that put him $65,000 in debt. RJ contracted his first deal he found on the MLS and wholesaled it for a $7,500 assignment fee. That was the end of his former life and the beginning of his venture into becoming a real estate investor. Since that moment, RJ has become an influential figurehead in the real estate investing industry. He has successfully purchased and sold over 2,000 properties all across the USA including wholesale deals, rehabs, rentals, owner finances and short term rentals. One of his passions is being the host of The Titanium Vault Podcast where he interviews the top real estate investors. He has won back to back Closers Olympics earning him the reputation as the King Closer! Finally, RJ and Cassi DeHaas, his partner, have started their education platform called Titanium University.
The Titanium Vault hosted by RJ Bates III
Reacting To The Silliest Marketing Myths!
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If you’re new to my channel my name is RJ Bates III. Myself and my partner Cassi DeHaas are the founders of Titanium Investments.
We are nationwide virtual wholesalers and on this channel we share EVERYTHING that we do inside our business. So if you’re looking to close more deals - at higher assignments - anywhere in the country… You’re in the right place.
Who is Titanium Investments and What Have We Accomplished?
Over 10 years in the real estate investing business
Closed deals in all 50 states
Owned rentals in 12 states
Flipped houses in 11 states
Closed on over 2,000 properties
125 contracts in 50 days (all live on YouTube)
Back to back Closers Olympics Champion
Trained thousands of wholesalers to close more deals
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Hello and welcome to the King Closer Reacts. I am the King Closer, rj Bates III. This is the series where I sit down and I watch a bunch of those goofy TikToks Reels and YouTube shorts. See if I agree or disagree. Let's get into our first video.
Speaker 2:PPC and PPL are the ones that get compared a lot. To be honest, there's no more reason that PPC and PPL should be compared than comparing PPL and direct mail or PPL and cold calling. They're no more similar. But people just seem to think they're similar because they're like internet or maybe because they both have like the two P's in the name and they're similar.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I go back to the certain parties benefit from this confusion because everybody wants a PPC quality lead or an SEO quality lead, because they are widely renowned as the highest level of motivation, the highest quality. So, again, if that's what you think you're getting, you're probably in for a surprise.
Speaker 1:I don't get it. I don't get where, all of a sudden, we decided as an industry that we need to start shitting on PPL and comparing it to PPC and then literally say things like this that are completely misleading. For example, property leads absolutely sells you PPC and SEO quality leads because that's literally where they're generating their leads from. Propertyleads has a large SEO spider web all across the United States where they are generating SEO leads and selling them to you where you pay per lead and selling them to you where you pay per lead. You don't have to go create your own SEO. You can lean on what Property Leads has been building for years Now. In regards to the other PPC or PPL companies, like Speed to Lead and LeadZolo, do they have PPC quality leads? Yes. Do they have SEO quality leads? Yes. Do they also sell you other things where it comes from Facebook, cold calling, sms? Absolutely. However, what I will tell you is the difference is that on speed lead, you will actually see where was the lead generated prior to you purchasing.
Speaker 1:So if you only want PPC quality leads or SEO leads, you can only buy those. You can choose that. However, on PPC, what you cannot do is turn down any leads that you don't want. So, for example, for the leads that come in and they want full retail, or the fake leads, you don't get refunds and you also don't get to turn those down. But on PBL you can. You can look on the marketplaces and you can say I don't want to buy that lead. That person wants to upgrade their house and their house is fully renovated in the past two years. I don't want to buy that lead. So you're right, this is not a comparison. Pbl is better than running your own PPC, and it's undeniable, because PBO is the only lead generation out there where you have a refund policy and it's the only lead generation out there where you can pick and choose which leads you want, based off the motivation, the property condition, how long they've owned it prior to even spending a dollar on the lead.
Speaker 5:Wholesaling real estate is often pitched as this gateway into the real estate industry. You can make tons and tons of money doing it, which is true. But unfortunately wholesaling relies almost entirely on bringing in deals. Which is by far the hardest part of real estate investing it's finding those deals in the first place. Once you find a great deal, it's often pretty easy to find money for it, at least relative to actually finding that deal in the first place. This isn't to say that wholesaling can't be very lucrative, because it definitely can be and it can be a good way to start. But you have to be willing to put in a ton of work to actually find these deals to start with and then actually get that pipeline going. But really, once you get a good deal pipeline going, you're probably going to want to start investing in a lot of these deals and you won't really be wholesaling anymore. In any event, wholesaling is not easy. It takes a lot of work. You can make money doing it, but don't expect it to be some walk in the park. Follow for more.
Speaker 1:What's his point? I don't understand. So wholesaling is hard that's what he's saying. Because you have to find great deals. Correct, because you have to find great deals. Correct, you do need to find great deals. But if you don't do that, where are you going to get the deals to invest your money in?
Speaker 1:Yes, finding money is easy. Finding private money lenders, hard money lenders, lenders in general, is extremely easy. That is not a difficult part of real estate investing whatsoever. But I don't understand the process here. Even if you're a flipper or a landlord, you still have to find the deals to invest the money in. So, yes, wholesaling is the gateway into that, because you're eliminating all of the liability on the backside right, the liability of what happens if this property requires more rehab, what happens if something goes wrong with the property? What happens if the property gets vandalized? What happens if the house burns down. There's a lot of liability that comes along with owning the real estate. That's the part that gets eliminated with wholesaling. So, finding a great deal no matter what you do in real estate investing, you still have to find the great deals, even if you're just buying from another wholesaler.
Speaker 6:PPL is nice because it allows you to be able to buy PPC leads where that's inbound marketing right. Let's be honest with what that is. It's somebody reaching out to you to buy their property. That means they are motivated to sell Now. They want to. They want to sell now, within the next 30 days. They have a reason to sell versus cold calling or outbound marketing. They're just saying, yeah, I might sell if the price is right, or I might sell next year when my daughter goes off to college where, then? This is what I teach my students.
Speaker 6:The number of touches you have to do for a cold call lead is in the hundreds, because you're following up with them month after month. You're hoping that they answer the phone, you're dialing them multiple times and then it's finally. You nurture them a year later and they might sell their property to you. Versus PPC or PPL, that lead is going to be much more expensive, right? Cold calling $35 to $50 cost per lead is what you're going to spend. If you have a multi-line dialer and you've got a VA and skip tracing all that stuff, ppc or PPL you might be between 200 to $400, depending on the market you're in. Yes, it is 10 times more expensive for that lead for PPL PPL is nice, jeremy, you were on it.
Speaker 1:You were right there, buddy. You were so close to being yes and then you fucked it up. See, here's the thing. He's right Cold calling does cost you somewhere. Let's go even cheaper $20 to $40 per lead. Guess how much I pay per lead on PBL $30. It's the same and he's absolutely right.
Speaker 1:Cold calling, hundreds of touches, voicemails and VAs and multi-line dialers and just data out the ass. Pbl, swipe $30, boom answer contract. It doesn't cost more unless you make the decision that you're going to limit yourself to one specific area and then you have to pay more. But if you cast a wider net, what gets? A little bit harder Dispositions? It takes a little bit harder Dispositions. It takes a little bit of time till you build those relationships with the end buyers in those new markets to you. But your cost per lead is $30. It's a lot easier to look at a seller and say Mr and Mrs Seller, your house is in the middle of nowhere. I can't really help you unless you give me a lot more time to locate end buyers. This is where the transparency comes in. The lack of competition comes in and your average cost per contract is so low that your wholesaling business is basically doing stupid profit.
Speaker 4:Because once you wholesale a deal, you make your 15 grand assignment and that's it. You got to go get another one. Exactly you know what I mean. So that's why I'm big on the lease option. And you're getting somebody a chance to buy a house when they couldn't have. Because the thing is, while they're renting with random landlords, the landlord can just say, well, I'm not going to renew your lease, exactly, yeah, I'm not going to sell. I'm not going to sell, I'm designed to sell it to somebody else.
Speaker 1:Yes, there are absolute benefits to having home ownership, lease options, rental properties, seller finance. You controlling an asset absolutely can feed your family and build that income for the long haul and you make a lot more money. But with each grass is greener on the other side, there's always a downside. So you could take the down payment on a lease option, start collecting the monthly payments and those buyers slash tenants, whatever you want to refer to them as could destroy the property and then say we're out and they move along. Now you have to rehab the property. Now you have to come cash out of pocket in order to get the property to the point where you can sell it again and get another down payment. There's always a downside to that. Sell it again and get another down payment. There's always a downside to that.
Speaker 1:The other thing is is when you do a lease option, yes, you get that initial payday and hopefully, if everything goes right, you get an additional payday when they actually exercise their option to purchase the property. But along the way, you're going to be receiving a lot smaller payments and that cashflow doesn't really go far. So, just like in a wholesale business, you're always chasing the next transaction. Ultimately, as a business owner. It's up to you to make the decision on what type of business you want to run. There are plenty of people that I know out there that make great money doing lease options, but primarily they are focused on lease options. There are plenty of people that I know that make great money wholesaling and, yeah, we average $15,000 a transaction, but it's easy for us, especially in 2025, with the softwares and the lead generation that exists, for us to constantly be getting deals each and every day.
Speaker 7:If you're trying to like build a sustainable business just doing PPL, I don't think that's like probably a long-term solution. Yeah, well, we're running a PPC campaign for you, dude. That's what I'm saying. Like they do, they can't even hold a candle to having a targeted, dedicated PPC.
Speaker 7:What can't hold a candle. Ppl yeah Cause PPL. You're just. You're reaching in the bargain bin and seeing what you pull out. You're reaching in the bargain bin and seeing what you pull out. You might get lucky, but when you have a dedicated person that's changing it and refining it and suiting it to what you need too, it makes a massive difference.
Speaker 1:All roads lead All right, listen, I love Rich and Brent. They're my friends. Rich, I know that you've tasted PPL before. I've seen you close deals using PPL. Brent, I know you've used PPL. In fact, I know that your taste of using PPL is what led to you eventually starting your own PPC campaigns for your community. We had that conversation, so I know that you guys see the value in PPL.
Speaker 1:What I don't agree with is why do we have to make this comparison now for PPC to PPL? See, ppc has always existed right and inside of our industry we have always just accepted that, whatever the mainstream lead generation was, this is what we should do. Right Back in the day it was cold calling, we all pulled lists, we all did skip tracing, we all had multi-line dialers and we all hired virtual assistants. And then we transitioned to things like direct mail, rvms, cold texting. And now PPL exists and we're making this comparison to PPC and saying we should run our own PPC or we should hire someone like Brent to run a PPC campaign, for us to literally do the exact same thing that PBL already does for our business, which is, bring us a motivated seller that has raised their hand and say I want to sell my house. Now let's compare the differences right. I've talked about some of them already on here. But PPC there's no refund policy. Pbl is the only lead generation out there that has a refund policy.
Speaker 1:And then, in regards to what Rich says, where we're reaching in to the bargain bin, all right, well, let's talk about that for a second. I can sit down right now and I can go see every lead that exists on LeadZolo and SpeedLeads marketplace. Now, before I give $1 to either one of those companies, I can see the seller's motivation, the property condition, how long they've owned it, what their timeline for wanting to sell is, what location it is in, what the average comps are and how many buyers are in the area. You will never be able to get that through a PPC campaign right. You're going to set your parameters and whatever comes in is what comes in. But before I give $1, I know all of that I'm not reaching into the bargain bin, I'm reaching in and I'm grabbing the fucking Rolex of leads. I know exactly if my seller is motivated, the property condition, how long they want to sell, and I can target those very specifically and go in and say that's my lead, that's the one I want.
Speaker 1:This is the power of PPL Now. At any point in time, I can move lightning fast on my decision-making process. Let's talk about property leads, for example. I could go in today and I can say for 30 leads, I want nationwide exclusive leads. But say I talk to a buyer and that buyer says I really need properties in Amarillo Texas. I'm looking to buy five in the next month. I can go into my property leads account. I can change the campaign from nationwide exclusive for $30. And I can say I only want leads in Amarillo Texas and I will set my bid on how much I'm willing to pay for those leads. Now say I have another buyer that says I want to buy all across the state of Missouri. I can also change from Amarillo Texas to the entire state of Missouri and each one of those comes with a different expense Nationwide being the cheapest, statewide being the next and the most expensive being countywide. But these are the decisions that I can make as a business owner and I don't have to go to my PPC campaign manager and have them set it up and figure out what leads are going to work, what taglines and headlines and keywords, and of that, no, the people that have dedicated their lives to doing this, already have that set up. So, with a simple swipe of my credit card and lightning fast decisions, I can change my campaigns and get the leads that I need, and I can utilize the marketplaces on LeadZolo and Speed2Lead and know exactly which leads I want, based off of motivation, property condition and the location.
Speaker 1:In my opinion, there is no comparison. Ppl is the best and it's what we solely use. Rich talks about PPL cannot be long-term sustainable. Well, we've been using it since 2021, highly successful. We've been doing only PPL for the past 18 months. My question to the masses is how long do we need to succeed using only PPL before it becomes the norm of? This is what we should be doing in this industry. Let me know in the comments. All right, guys, that's our episode of the King Closer Reacts. Hope you enjoyed it, because right now, I'm on a bus in St Louis, missouri, with 19, 13-year-olds playing hockey. We're going to be playing a game Sunday morning. There's going to be no showers after the game, they're going to reek of hockey and I'm going to be stuck in a bus for 12 and a half hours. So enjoy your weekend, because I'm sure I'm thoroughly enjoying mine right now, show me some love. Like the video. We'll see you guys, tomorrow.