The Titanium Vault hosted by RJ Bates III

Why Sellers Ghost You After Saying YES (And How To Avoid It)

• RJ Bates III • Episode 742

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If you’re new to my channel my name is RJ Bates III. Myself and my partner Cassi DeHaas are the founders of Titanium Investments.

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SPEAKER_00:

Be talking about uh the topic that no one really likes to talk about, right? When we we get a seller to say yes, but then they ghost us. So they never actually sign the contract, or we can't get them back on the phone for whatever reason. And I want to start off today's episode by letting you know that this happens to everyone, okay? This is not if it's happened to you and you're a concern that maybe you're doing something wrong. Well, you probably are, but you have to also understand that there's a certain percentage of deals that that sellers are going to go shoe for various different reasons. And we'll go through those reasons today. It's all about you maximizing your process to eliminate as many of these scenarios as possible and really trying to identify it before it even happens so you can become more efficient with your leads and closing deals and not trying to chase down the Casper's. Okay, because that's one of the things that can kill an acquisition rep's morale more than anything, is just staring at their CRM and their their queue of leads and just seeing I've been calling that person for two weeks and they never answer the phone. It's bad enough that we have to do that on the called no answer leads, but if you're staring at conversations that you felt like you built the rapport and then you got them to verbally agree, but now they're just not signing the contract, that can be demoralizing and it makes you inefficient as an acquisitions rep. So if you've ever heard, yeah, that works, or send me that contract, let me review it, or I need to talk to my spouse or my realtor or my attorney. These are all things that we've each and every single one of us have heard. If you've been doing this for any period of time, it's about how do you handle that situation when it comes up. Now, this happens to both beginners and experienced wholesalers. I think the difference is that when it happens to us, we eliminate those follow-up conversations. I'm okay getting to the no, I'm not going to move forward with you. And you've seen that more recently on my lives where I've been rather aggressive trying to just like let's get down to it. The last time I went live with Caesar and Hyro, I talked to one seller, and when it got down to it, he ended up just saying, you know what? You're covered across like a pushy car salesman. Well, I wasn't. I was just saying to the seller, you told me that you're a straight shooter, you want to sell the house. This is what I can buy it for. You're okay with that. Where am I not understanding? Why do we need to elongate this process? What do you need to think about? He didn't want to answer, and because of that, that very clearly told me his intentions were to ghost me. His intentions were to not ever answer the phone again, and so I don't have to follow up with him. I can just move on and focus on the rest of my calls. Okay. Now, ghosting is not random, it is predictable behavior. That's one of the things that newer wholesalers need to understand is that there's many times that if I could just listen to the seller conversation, I could almost predict exactly why that seller decided to ghost you and what you could have changed about that conversation. So those are going to be some of the things that we're going to go through, and you'll understand why it happens and how the professionals, the seasoned wholesalers prevent it. All right. Now, let's talk about verbal agreements and how they mean nothing. Because if you're going, if you're using the closer's formula, which each and every one of you should be using, there's a series of questions that we ask, and it forces that seller into that predictable behavior. Do you still want to sell this house? If we do not get an affirmative, then we're not moving on in the conversation. So we're getting them to verbally agree that they want to sell the property. Okay. Then we get their asking price out of them right out of the gates. Now, the reason why that's important is because we are then going to frame our questions around that price and why that's important of them. Now, the majority of sellers that we're going to talk to are going to give us that incorrect price, and that's fine because the next thing that we're going to find out is their motivation. And then that's where we could tie that back to the price. The motivation is the most important part of the conversation. So we can say we can solve your money problem. This is what we can give you, and it solves this motivation over here. And then throughout the conversation, we are going to uncover every aspect of why they're needing to sell this property, why they need to sell it for a certain price, how much money that they need, and what problem we are solving by purchasing their real estate. Okay, so that's like the framework of the closer's formula. Now, as we're going through this, there's going to be times where we get these verbal agreements. So using the example that I just gave that seller when I was on with Hiro and Caesar, he said he did want to sell the property. Then he gave me a price. And then I found out all of this motivation that exists. But as the seller was talking, he uncovered things. He told me things about how he didn't like how he was getting negotiated by other wholesalers. And he just wanted someone to be a straight shooter. He didn't want to have multiple conversations, he didn't want to do all these things. And so I eliminated all of that in that one conversation. And when we finally got down to the verbal agreement, he didn't want to put that in writing. The verbal agreement is when a seller says yes, but they're not willing to sign the document. So maybe that yes is not really what you think it is. And this is where new wholesalers get really upset. All right, I've sent out four contracts and none of them have signed. Well, the yes could have just been to end the discomfort that they had during the conversation with you. It could have been just to get off of the phone. It could be that they didn't feel understood whatsoever. Right? You know what? The best way for me to just get off this phone is by telling this guy, send me the contract. What are you gonna do? Well, if you're newer, you get super excited and you send the contract, and that guy's the seller's like, I'm never answering the phone again. I am I'm done. Why? Because maybe they weren't comfortable, they just wanted to get off the phone, they didn't feel understood, they didn't, you did not clearly understand their motives for wanting to sell the property. Okay, and so that's important for you to understand because this could just be their version of politeness, and and people don't want to come to grips with this because they say, Well, we had great rapport. Well, I've said it time and time again rapport is irrelevant if you don't understand their motivation and if you're not truly solving their problem. So, on each and every seller conversation, when we say, Okay, this seller goes to me, I should be able to ask you, did they want to sell? How much was their asking price? What was their motivation? That motivation should be very in-depth. What was the problem that you were trying to solve? And then how were you solving that problem? If you can't answer those questions, then now we could clearly identify why this seller was ghosting you. It wasn't that they were ghosting you, they just never actually agreed to you, they just verbally said yes to get you off the phone. Now, in each one of these seller conversations, the the seller is both going to make an emotional and a logical commitment. And what happens with a lot of the ghosting is maybe on the emotional side, they say yes, but then when it comes to the logical side, they're not ready, or vice versa. So let's talk about the difference. The emotional could be you get them to open up about the terrible circumstances that are going on in their life, why they would be motivated to sell this property, but logically, they can't explain this to anyone on how this is actually going to take place, they don't know the next steps, they're not the real estate professional, you are, and so because of that, when they get off the phone to go talk to their attorney, their spouse, their sibling, their kids, they can't logically explain what's going to take place. So, this this guy just called you out of the blue. You know, our house is in Mississippi, he lives in Fort Worth, Texas. I see that he's on YouTube and he's got this following and whatnot, but how is he actually gonna buy your house? Do we actually know what's going to take place? That's where the logic comes in, and logically they say, I'm not ready to move forward, I'm gonna ghost this person. Now, the flip side of that is logically, they understand they're selling their house and they feel comfortable on that, but then emotionally they get down to it, and maybe they don't feel understood, they don't really feel like you realize that you're buying a family heirloom, it's their house that they grew up, that their parents just passed away and they inherited this property, and so emotionally they're not ready for this, and so logically they understand, but emotionally they're not there. This is a lot of times when we don't truly understand their motivation because the price is correct. This happens a lot with the laydown leads. Lay down lead happens, they give the right price. We skip over the motivation, maybe we briefly go over the next steps and we send the contract, and then it doesn't get signed. And you don't know why, because you just gave them their price. Now, we saw this the other day with Hyro's first call with the seller in Maine. Hyro is great at closing, but even he identified it at the end, it was a laydown price, and he gave the seller that price, and because of it, it caused red flags. The seller's like, Oh, I need to talk to my son. My son's an attorney, he's gonna look over this. We need proof of funds, we need a uh written letter from the hard money lender, we need all this information because logically, this doesn't make sense, it's just too good to be true. And the saying is, is if it is too good to be true, well, it probably is too good to be true, and so the sellers feel that, all right, and so you have to start thinking about is what happens when the emotion fades after the call. Where's that seller left? What are their thoughts when they're not in that moment? I'm sure you've had something in your life where you're super excited, and then an hour later, six hours later, like you're not in the moment, and you're like, Why was I so excited about that? Maybe I was just emotionally caught up. Maybe that guy was just a good salesman, right? So, why do sellers need to talk to their spouses, kids, friends, realtors, attorneys? Normally it's because in that moment, that is like a defense mechanism, and it's their way of saying, I don't know if I trust how good this is right now. And so it's important for you as the closer to slow down the conversation and find where that missing bridge is. Okay, Mr. Seller, you said you wanted to sell the property, you said you had this price. I'm a buyer. This is what my my role is in this transaction, this is how I can solve this problem. I get it. You want to talk to your spouse, your kids, realtor, attorney, whoever it is. What is it that you're wanting to have during that? What is what are you trying to uncover during that conversation? Because I'm on the phone with you right now, and I would like to speak to you about whatever it comes up so you don't make any preconceived notions, or maybe you misunderstand something that's trying to go on. I would like to be able to explain that to you right now. Now, again, there will be times where this leads to the conversation ending right then and there. You could get hung up on, you could get someone that gets frustrated, you're not listening to me. I need to talk to my kids, I need to talk to my friend who's a realtor. That's okay. Because all we want to understand is what is the purpose behind that conversation so we can potentially try to answer it and I guess defend our position on it. Now, where does trust actually break inside of the conversation? Well, one of the things I want you to understand is ghosting usually is a trust fracture and it has nothing to do with price. Now, every now and then it comes back to the fact that they wanted a higher price and you were offering this, but if you could get them to verbally agree to that price, it's normally something else. It's something about the process. Maybe you disclose that you're a wholesaler and they realize they could go get more money, which is their right, right? That's something that we need to understand. If we disclose that we're a wholesaler and they say, Well, if I'm coming down to this price, I know you're gonna go assign it to an in buyer for a higher price. Maybe I could just go find that's true. That's where follow-up is important, and that's where not killing these leads is also important. The other thing is expectations aren't clear about what happens next. You see this all the time where a new wholesaler gets on the phone and they're trying to close the deal, but they rush through the explanation of these next steps as to what the seller should expect to happen. I saw this happen yesterday. One of the guys on my team was talking to a seller who had essentially built the property. So they never they never acquired it. It was like land that was given to them inside of the family, and then they built on it. So they never actually gone through a real estate transaction, they don't know what a title company is, they don't understand the closing process, they don't know the words title commitment, transaction coordinator. All of this is a foreign language to them, and my guy was kind of just briefly just going through it and not really explaining it in detail. And so, because of it, the seller who was elderly was getting confused, and and this essentially what he said was this listen, I just don't understand what the title company does. My guy kept going back to well, the title company is an unbiased third party, they're just gonna verify that you are who you say you are, that you're the true owner of the property, and these were all like red flags to this gentleman, and he wasn't doing a poor job of explaining what a title company was, it was just the fact that this person really truly did not understand what a real state. So, our guy need to slow down. He instead of saying it over the span of three to five minutes, he was rushing it and saying it in 30 to 40 seconds, and so because of that, what did the seller feel? Lack of trust. All he really felt in that moment was I have questions, and your answer is too generic, and really it's a language that I don't understand. Escrow, title officer, title commitment, verifying that we are who we say we are. All that he's like, Listen, I want to sell my my land and I just want cash. You said you're an all-cash offer, and so it had nothing to do with price, it really just came down to him not understanding the expectations of what's next. Now, another area in which sellers where trust can break is that sellers feel rushed after agreeing, and this happens with a lot of elderly sellers. Okay, so that's something to keep in mind. We don't want to necessarily judge each and every seller and stereotype, but there are stereotypes out there for a reason. Elderly sellers normally want to take their time, and so if you're trying to rush them to get them to sign and not hearing the reasons why they want to take their time, that could cause the deal to either one the seller to ghost you or for it to just die right then and there. And so this is where you have to default back to not trying to manipulate, not trying to force the seller to do something that they don't want to do. It goes back to asking questions. Mr. and Mr. Seller, I understand you want to take your time, but for my sake, can you explain to me what it is that why do you want to take your time and what is it that you are needing to figure out? Because I while I have you on the phone, I want to try to explain everything that I possibly can. Okay. Now, there are times where a seller can't articulate why they want to take their time. Sometimes it's as simple as, hey, I'm 75 years old, and this is how I've done every single business transaction in my life. Understood. Now, that's where you have to set expectations. I hear you. I also have a process in my business, and I can't get off the phone with you and give you that time without knowing how much time and when is the next time we're going to be able to speak. Because I do want to send you a legally binding contract for you to sign. So I want to be able to know whether or not we're moving forward. Whether it's a yes or no, that's irrelevant. I just want to be able to have a conversation. So let's set expectations of when we are going to have the next conversation. That's after you understand the reason why they want to take that time. Okay. Now, the other part of this is ask questions followed by silence and allow the seller to speak. You don't want to come across as confrontational, you want to come across as inquisitive, you want to come across like you're trying to understand, so then you can be their solution. That's our goal throughout the entire conversation. And so a lot of times when we get down to the close and it's not going to happen right then and there, we panic and we default to becoming confrontational and even argumentative. Okay. Now, a professional wholesaler sets these expectations before this comes up. So this is what we refer to as reverse rapport. So as we're going through the conversation, we want to set the expectations of what's to happen. And then we want the objection of I need more time. So we've already set the expectations of what's next to happen in the transaction. Now we've received the objection of they need more time and we can solely focus our questions off of their needs instead of trying to explain the rest of our process. Okay. So if they trusted you enough to say yes all the way up until this point, and then something comes up where they have a objection or reason, something happened there that caused that along the way. So be aware of how you're navigating this. And one of the best ways to do that is slowing down and asking for explanations from the seller. Now, I had a video the other day about tonality. Okay. Tonality is extremely important when we're trying to close the deals. And it's really hard to understand this unless you go back and you re-listen to your seller calls. And so this is something that I would absolutely you know challenge you guys to do right now is start recording your calls, whether or not you're using a Zoom free Zoom account, Loom, uh StreamYard, whatever it is, turn a camera on. And even if you can only just hear the audio of it, to hear your tone, it's amazing how often ghosting happens because throughout the conversation, you have a certain tone, and then it spikes with excitement and your speed and the delivery and everything changes once you get that verbal agreement. And then suddenly you want to know why are they ghosting me? Well, maybe it's because you felt you made them feel like maybe I'm selling it for too low of a price, or maybe something's off here because they got awfully excited, right? So that excitement spike can really scare the sellers, right? And then the the closing voice that you have, it should really be even killed, like nothing really changes about it. Now you can congratulate them, you can thank them for giving the opportunity, but that tone should be one of being calm, assuring them that they are dealing with a professional, and assuring them that you understand what problem that you are solving by doing this deal. All right. So make sure that you don't get too excited, you don't speed up, you don't become salsy. It's steady, reassuring, and quite frankly, boring, but in a good way. Right? It should be no different than it was at the beginning of the conversation, despite the fact that you're getting the result that you wanted. Now let's talk about when we're actually forced into the position of we have to follow up. Okay. This is where, for whatever reason, it was, hey, I'm 75 years old and I always have to take a business day to think about any important decision, or I need to go speak to this third party. Okay. So now you're forced into the follow-up. One, that follow-up should have been scheduled. If it's left up to, hey, whenever it happens, you've lost. Okay. You have them on the phone each and every time the next conversation should be a scheduled time and date. Okay. Now, when you were doing this, there is a an issue if they say it is scheduled for Tuesday at three o'clock. All right, fantastic. I've got a call in 12 minutes with a seller, and they don't answer. And then now we default to badgering them, over texting, drip campaigns, emails being blasted out. That could drive someone away. I always tell everybody when ghosting starts happening, one relax and think about who our avatar is. Someone that is so motivated with something negative happening in their life that they're willing to sell one of the largest assets that they'll ever own in their life for a discount. And then we're frustrated because we have a scheduled call at Tuesday at three o'clock, and they don't answer the phone. Is it because they are truly ghosting you? Or is it because maybe something has happened in their life? They already had something negative going on in their life, and now we're frustrated, so we start over texting and really becoming emotional with our follow-ups. And so, one of the things that you should do is more default towards humor than emotion. So, one of the things that we've seen inside of TU that really works is hey, are you were you abducted by aliens? Just check it on you. Hey, wellness check, just click high if you're okay. Something like that that's humorous that could get a response that says, Yeah, I'm fine. Just something came up in my life, and it's amazing the amount of volume of responses that you'll get from sellers that say it has nothing to do with you. I'm just busy, it has nothing to do with you. It's the fact that you know, I live in Texas and the world became a skating rink, and I'm still having to figure out how to get to work, figure out how I'm gonna get groceries and feed the kids and deal with all this. Life happens. Okay, so be a little bit relaxed. The other thing that you want to avoid is just checking in. Okay, the follow-up should have been scheduled. So if it wasn't, that's where you kind of default to the hey, I'm just checking in to see if you're able to talk to your spouse or that attorney or that realtor. This is that that leads to you being ghosted. Think about how much stuff goes through your cell phone per day. I don't know about you, but it's I'm getting calls, voicemails, text messages, emails, social media notifications. The last thing that I really want to see is just a text message from someone that I've already seen their missed call. I already know what they're calling about, I've already seen their voicemail, but now a text message or an email saying just checking in. Yeah, I I hear you. I'm gonna get back to you. Okay, so avoid that. All right, maybe a reminder or hey, John, we were scheduled to speak at three o'clock today. I missed you. I'm available whenever you are. Feel free to reach back out to me. I hope everything's going okay. Something like that is a lot stronger and more likely to get a response than hey, just checking in. Okay. Now, one of the things I want you to really like contemplate is how many follow-ups is too many. And this is where you have to make a decision as to what type of business you want to run. I am perfectly okay with missing out on a deal because we followed up too frequently rather than we missed out on a deal because we were relaxed on our follow-up and the competition came in and stole the deal out from underneath us. So I would rather be aggressive than passive. If we miss out on a deal because we were too aggressive, that's fine. That's probably a sign of lack of motivation. But this is a decision that you need to make. Now, my personal opinion is that if you are a solopreneur, you can handle less follow-ups than a simple one per day is strong enough. If you're an acquisitions rep for a company, I'd like to see a lot more aggression out of you. And and that's where you're following up multiple times a day. But think about it from the failure perspective. Which failure are you okay with? Missing out a deal because you're aggressive or because you were passive. Okay. Now let's talk about engagement beating persuasion. Okay, set expectations before the call ends. Make sure that you clearly identify the next steps and they're calmly identified and they're agreed upon. Make sure you're giving the sellers certainty without making them feel like everything is urgent. Because if they feel like you are more motivated to get this done, you have a greater sense of urgency than them, then that causes them to want to back away from you. So it should be you're putting the ball on their court, relying upon their urgency, what is their timeline, what is their desired path of getting this deal close. And then you need to frame follow-up as a service, not you checking in. All right, John, I'd like to set up a follow-up date so I can check in and see when you're going to be able available to make this decision. So that's coming across as like, hey, we're providing them this service of following up instead of hey, this guy is a sales guy or he gets paid for commission. And so he's coming after me and constantly following up, and that commission breath is coming across. Okay. And then the bottom line is consistency does build credibility and safety with sellers. So as long as you have some sort of consistency with that follow-up and you set that expectation that they know that that's coming, it does prove that you are credible, but not needy. I can't tell you how many times I've been able to close a deal after 12, 15, 20 plus follow-ups, and the seller come back to me and say, Honestly, RJ, the reason why I'm going with you is because you told me what to expect and you did it. And you were consistent and you showed up every single day. You didn't take the day off when there was ice everywhere, you just continued to show up, and that's why at the beginning of this, I dropped it in the chat. Pros don't convince sellers to move forward, they make it feel unsafe not to. They don't need to feel like you're forcing them or convincing them to move forward with you. They need to look at it and say, the person that I feel most secure moving forward with is with RJ. And the reasons why is because he was clear, he was concise in his communication, he always properly set expectations, he always had a next step. I knew what to expect, and then he consistently delivered on that. And if you could do that over and over and over again with each one of your seller conversations, that is how you are going to avoid sellers ghosting you.