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The Titanium Vault hosted by RJ Bates III
RJ Bates III, affectionately referred to as the Viking Wizard by his students, started his real estate investing career in 2014 after attending a real estate education program that put him $65,000 in debt. RJ contracted his first deal he found on the MLS and wholesaled it for a $7,500 assignment fee. That was the end of his former life and the beginning of his venture into becoming a real estate investor. Since that moment, RJ has become an influential figurehead in the real estate investing industry. He has successfully purchased and sold over 2,000 properties all across the USA including wholesale deals, rehabs, rentals, owner finances and short term rentals. One of his passions is being the host of The Titanium Vault Podcast where he interviews the top real estate investors. He has won back to back Closers Olympics earning him the reputation as the King Closer! Finally, RJ and Cassi DeHaas, his partner, have started their education platform called Titanium University.
The Titanium Vault hosted by RJ Bates III
TU In Review | Highlighting Mistakes For Future Improvement!
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Challenge Setup And Call Review Goals
SPEAKER_00Welcome back to TUN Review, the series where I am going to watch a live seller call, and I'm going to review it that was submitted by a titanium university member. Today's call is submitted by Mr. Jamil Watts, host of Hobo Wholesale, which, if you're not familiar with, Jamil, along with other Titanium University members that work, W-2s, they get together. They've been doing a hundred-day challenge to $100,000 where they go live every single day during the time block, the time availability that they have around their W-2 calling sellers. And so what you're going to see is there's six different Titanium University members on the screen. It's an awesome challenge. Shout out to you, Jamil, for uh putting this together, holding each other accountable. Um, absolutely love seeing it. We got Omar, Ken Smoot, Mike Dabney, Aliceign, and Christopher Gomez. These guys have been going on there every single day. I'm going to be joining them later in September on their 100th day of the challenge, and I can't wait for it. So, without further ado, let's get into our call review today of Mr. Jamil Watts.
Seller Opens Up On Motivation
SPEAKER_01Hello.
SPEAKER_02Hey, is Heather there?
SPEAKER_01This is she.
SPEAKER_02Hey Heather, it's Mark Watts. Uh, I got your one to sell a property over on Olin Murphy Road.
SPEAKER_01Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_02You still selling that?
SPEAKER_01I'm hoping to.
SPEAKER_02Perfect. What's the price you're looking to get for it?
SPEAKER_01I was I was I was like, I know what I'm not trying to get that because I know they gotta get wiggroom. I was hoping to get about 50k for it. I guess the lowest I would go is 40, but I was hoping if anything they can meet me in the middle between 40 and 50.
SPEAKER_02Okay. All right. Well, I'm gonna pull this up, see if I can make that happen while I do. Can you tell me a little bit about what you got going on?
SPEAKER_01Well, the house is a little TLC. It's got a brand new roof just got put on last week. Um it needs like some some like love and care on the inside, like the Paphist Rose would need to be retrown, remodeled, um flooring needs to be updated, things like cosmetic work and stuff like that. Um it's been here for years, ain't nobody replaced anything in it. So he's on TLC. Uh basically I'm just I live out in the country and you know, in the small town people like the country, but um I don't provide stuff because I I have issues with my vision. And it's just I get stuck out here and I have no way in the town and I'm just too far out. I can't get nowhere, I can't do nothing. So I was hoping I could sell this and move into town in the city limit so I could get around better.
SPEAKER_02Wow, that must be difficult. You said you can't you can't even get to town.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, basically unless I'm uh unless somebody gives me a ride. I don't drive. I'm I'm on paperwork because they're legally blind. So I don't drive, and and sometimes people don't want to come get me and I get stuck.
SPEAKER_00So pretty pretty smooth introduction there by Jamil. Obviously, following the closer's formula there. We know that she wants to sell. We've got an ASCII price of $40,000 to $50,000, maybe somewhere in between there. Already gathered motivation, right? She's got to get into town, she's legally blind, she feels stuck out in the country, she needs to move into city limits. Really like how he doubled down there. Like, wow, that must be really tough. You you can't see. Kind of inquisitive there. Got her to open up a little bit more about the fact that she is legally blind, she can't drive, she has to rely on somebody else. Really, really top-notch intro and and beginning first couple of minutes of this call.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, how often do you get stuck there?
SPEAKER_01Well, I was supposed to be at a doctor's home in the day, and I never got a chance to make it. So, you know, something like that. Plus plus came inherited, and it's been in my family for generations, and I'm just I'm just ready for something different, ready to just go out and do something, you know, spoilable or not, be stuck out here like I am.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, especially once you start talking about people just leaving you out there. Uh, what does that look like for you though?
SPEAKER_01Um, what do you mean what's it look like?
SPEAKER_02I I don't know if it's uh well maybe not uh uh RV. That may not be the best choice, but uh yeah, I don't know if it's an RV, if it's plane tickets, uh I just I don't know what that looks like for you.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna stay in parry. I'm just gonna move closer to the city limits so I can walk where I need to walk to because I, you know, it's hard when you gotta depend on somebody else, you know.
When Empathy Turns To Over-Questioning
SPEAKER_00So this is a critical part in the call here. Jamil's doing a good job of trying to ask open-ended questions, dig deeper based off of her responses. But we have gotten quite a bit of information there in regards to her motivation. You don't want to go so deep that it's kind of like, dude, well, I've already told you. I mean, it sucks. I'm legally blind, I'm stuck. Want to make sure we we carry the conversation through, like, hey, your motivation, we want to understand that, but we can uncover more things as we start talking about what is she trying to accomplish with the sell of the real estate, right? She wants to move inside of city limits. Is she able to do that if we were to give her $45,000? Why is that an important number to her? How much money does she need in her pocket to accomplish what she's looking to do? Like we gotta make sure we don't get too lost into that therapist zone of asking too many questions here. Really solid start. That last question probably could have gone without. And then, like the whole RV uh plane ticket thing. I see what he was trying to do, ask a question about, you know, you want to travel the world. What does that look like for you? But let's let's try to steer the conversation in the right direction here and get it back on the transaction itself because we do have a lot of information about what she's trying to accomplish.
SPEAKER_01I will stay in parry. I'm just gonna move closer to the city limits, basically.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, what's it been like having to depend on everybody else for for yourself?
SPEAKER_01Uh it's not fun, it's not fun at all. You know, you gotta go on their schedule, their time, their whatever they want to do, you know. It's like someone takes you grocery shopping when they're ready to go, you better come out the store.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So once you once you sell this, how's it gonna help you out?
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna use it as a down payment for another place to move to.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So
Getting Clear On Net Cash Needs
SPEAKER_02I I do plan I'm different than other investors in that I don't need to make a killing off of this, but I do need to make sure I'm being fair to my business at the same time. Uh I'm gonna put as much money in your pocket as possible, but how much of a down payment do you need?
SPEAKER_01Well, I was hoping if I got, let's say, the 40,000, which is the lowest, I was hoping to go. I was hoping I could put I'm gonna keep 10,000 of whatever it is that I get, and I'm gonna put the rest of the down payment. The 10,000 is gonna help me get telephone bills and maybe get furniture, whatever I need for my new home or my apartment where it is I go. So I'm hoping to get a home. I'm hoping I can get down payment for a home, basically. But if anything, I'll buy me an apartment somewhere to hike a rent or whatever that's reasonable. I was trying to get in the city limits. I'm too far out.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so a little small little tweak here, Jamil. Uh, I did like the question, right? How much money are you looking to put into your pocket? I didn't like the fact that you started off by saying, hey, I've got to take care of my family, I gotta put money in my pocket, be fair to my business. What it would that little saying there, uh, I would have edited that out because honestly, she's telling you she's highly motivated. That price, uh, or her ASCII price feels pretty flexible. I would like to understand her perspective more before we start imposing our perspective on there. Like we don't we don't need to bring up that we need to make profit yet at this early stage. And and you were asking so many questions about her and her perspective and her needs and her pain, and then all of a sudden we insert ourselves there. Um, it just it felt out of place. It also just kind of felt like something that you might be doing repetitively. I would definitely like to see that kind of edited out and just stick to the the question. We don't need your statement there. We could just go directly into how much money are you looking to put into your pocket net.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because what happens if you don't get into the city limits?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure if I have money in my hand and I say I got this much to put down, I'm sure that talks more than just talking on my ass, so to say.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, I hear you. Yeah, so you know, you got 10k and and bills and stuff like that, plus, you know, wanting to put you know, furniture for the new place, whatever that looks like. How much of a down payment do you do you need in order to get back into the city?
SPEAKER_01Probably about 30, 25 to 30 down payment. That's what I was hoping to get about 40, 40 to 50. Most places I've looked at, they're wanting a percentage down, which is ranging between 25 and 30,000 down. That's what I'm people are telling me. People I call about houses and stuff, brothers and stuff.
SPEAKER_0225 and 30. And you said that was like the banks that were saying that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for me to get a down payment or to get approved for a loan, I gotta have so much down. I need to have the percent the percentage down is measuring 25 to 30,000.
SPEAKER_02Chris, you think if I get this for 35, it's a deal? If she was listed at 70 something. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. So um I like I said, I I want to see if I can make that happen for you though. Uh, but with the bills, what's what's kind of going on with that?
SPEAKER_01Well, my husband's been out of work, his job closed down. I'm actually about to start work on Monday. I've been out of work as well. We're from a small town, and basically everybody has lost their job, all their meal shut down, uh, a lot of restaurants and stores shut down. So basically we're all struggling. Um, but my husband's just been out of work about three months. I've been out of work for about a year, and I finally just got a job coming up this Monday with the local McDonald's, and I start Monday, so I'm looking forward to that. Um, it's just been a struggle. So we we we we got a vehicle payment. I'm hoping to pay off that with whatever I get for the house. I'm hoping to pay off our vehicle payment, so we only got to worry about the house.
SPEAKER_00So
Why Property Details Still Matter
SPEAKER_00what's happening here is is Chris Gomez is comping this for Jamil. And the the issue that there's nothing bad with having that that tag team atmosphere. Love seeing that between the titanium university members, but the situation this this creates for Jameille is that he's not really gathering any information in regards to the property itself. He I don't believe he's pulled this up on Google Street View. I don't think he's pulled this up on a comping software. He's been solely focused, it appears, on speaking to the seller, which is great, but it also causes issues when, hey, we we've kind of asked the questions about the seller's pain and what she's trying to accomplish. We really know she wants to be in city limits. She's struggling financially, she knows how much she needs the net in her pocket. Like we know what she needs. Now we kind of have to grab the reins and become that real estate professional to really start navigating this conversation. So because Chris is the one that's doing all that legwork and kind of doing the research, Jamil doesn't really know a lot. He doesn't have any points of questions about the property itself. I if I'm him, Jamil, I'm I'm converting this over to well, talk to me a little bit about the property. Like I know she said it needs some TLC and whatnot, but what does that really look like? Kind of double down on the questions, get her to open up a little bit about that so you can really start understanding if that $35,000 number that you have in mind is something that could work.
SPEAKER_01Basically, my husband was a veteran, so I guess a little bit from the VA, and that covers us basics, but it's not enough to really have any legal running as for the trees.
SPEAKER_03She's saying the bank needs her at 25 to 30.
SPEAKER_01It's really nothing.
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna have to sell her on an apartment.
SPEAKER_01Extra.
SPEAKER_03She owes 25. Basically, we're just trying to bank said she needs 25 to 30 for a down payment. I have to try to save her at the getting an apartment instead.
SPEAKER_01He's on a side job with a friend of his own tree company. He's cutting trees to try to make his meet so he can get a paper job. And he was in Gainesville today, and all week he's been in Gainesville. So we're from Barry. That's like two hours away. Um there's just been a lot going on. We need we're behind on bills, we're behind on other things. We need to catch up on my son's starts school next week. It would be nice to be able to get on the school clothes and things he needs for school, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I hear you. Yeah, that's it's definitely a lot. I do want to say congratulations on the job coming up next week.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Um, but thank you. I mean, I I don't know what I would do if I was out of work for that long. How are you guys holding up?
SPEAKER_01Well, I said my husband's doing side jobs mowing yards for friends, and they gave me like $50 or something here and there for mowing their yard, or basically the church has been helping us, the church family's been helping us and stuff, but other than that, we just we just been here. You know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, it's gotta be tough. Um that's that's definitely gotta be tough. And you know, you're saying you're behind on bills, it it's been that long since you've been out of work. I mean, I'd be stressed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we have our moments. Yeah, we definitely have our moments. But me and my husband have been together for 20 years. I've been with hell since I was 19, so you know it's easy, so to say.
SPEAKER_02That's good.
SPEAKER_01We're like we're like an old egg.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I hear ya. Um now I understand that you got bills and stuff like that. How much how much do you need to pay off as far as you said the the truck and and and stuff like that?
SPEAKER_01We owe I think 13,000 left on the truck. Well, if we could give a lump sum payment, like maybe six, seven, eight thousand, that would be great. I'm sure they would maybe come down on the payment or they would work something out with us or whatever. You know what I mean? So we know the company that did the that this is like our third vehicle with the company. So in the last 20 years, so they know us, and they'll probably work something out with us if we if we have a if you have money in your hand and talks for you, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that would be good. Hopefully, they can come down on on uh payments for you. But with the bills stacking up and stuff like that, the truck and everything like that. If if this doesn't get paid off, luckily you got the job coming in next week, so that's gonna be great. But if this doesn't get paid off soon in the next two, three, six, nine months, what what happens?
SPEAKER_01Oh I know. I don't know. It's not that bad. Like I said, we just we we don't owe a lot. We just like just borrowed from friends and stuff who pay them or take them out to get dinner for taking care of us. The only real bills we got is a truck payment. Other than that, I own my land and I own my own flat out. So that's been helpful, so to say.
MLS History And The Missing Education
SPEAKER_01But I'm I'm just I'm just I'm I've had enough of it. I'm already just I've tried to sell my property off and on for about two years now. I I get excited about selling it, then I back out of it, and I think about it, then I back out of it. But I'm at that point. I'm just missing all my appointments. I mean, I haven't no one to help me out when my husband's doing his job and stuff. It's at the time where I'm like, I've had enough.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I we're really focused on on the motivation and the pains and her needs, which is what we should, but I feel like to a certain degree, we're making her repeat a little bit too much. Like we really understand her situation. I think Jamil also understands that her ASCII price is not going to work. And so at some point in time, we have to start the education process about okay, well, let me look at this. I need to understand what the property could be worth. I gotta understand how much work I could put into it to achieve that, and then this is how we're gonna get to our number. How can we make that number work for you? Because this is and he uh it sounded to me like she had this property listed on the MLS. So at some point in time, we also need to address that. Like, what was that feedback? What did you hear? It's almost the opposite of every call review I've ever done. We're almost too focused on the the motivation and the pain, and we haven't really explored like the real estate transaction itself enough. And and so, Jamil, at some point in time, we we got to flip the switch here and get back to to talking about the property. I think you're right there. Like this this is the moment that I would love to see you transition it over, and then it would be perfect, right? Maybe it could have happened one or two questions earlier, but I understand where you're trying to go with this. Now it's time that we've got to start taking the reins and and start talking about the property itself and what's what's gonna happen.
Renting Option And Real Priorities
SPEAKER_02So, what what was that breaking point for you to finally go fill out the form on my website? See now's the time.
SPEAKER_01It's just I just I'm ready for I'm ready for a new chapter, I'm ready for new opportunities. I've been on this land my entire life. I'm 35 years old, I'll be 36 this month. It's just time that I just something that makes me happy.
SPEAKER_02How how do we make sure you're happy in this?
SPEAKER_01Well, if I could get in a in a in a home or an area where I could get around and go do my own shopping and go to my job and not have to worry about being late or something because I gotta depend on somebody to give me a ride. Or if I can get I can get into town and go do go to like the park or go social with people and stuff. It just I think it would it would make me mentally more stronger and happier and and calmer. I wouldn't be so stressed out, being so far out. Well, I can't get no help if I need it. You know? I guess that's the best way I can describe it. It'll be a mental breakthrough for me, basically.
SPEAKER_02Oh, mental breakthrough. Well, I I definitely would want to see you get that mental breakthrough. Um, but I guess being that that's the case, what's kind of most important to you from this to to help you get that mental breakthrough, get the stress off you.
SPEAKER_01What's most important?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I almost said just get us in a in a more secure environment. I mean, I hear where I live, I can have bonfires and everything else I want, but it's when you when you when you're limited to what you can do, it really mentally weighs on you. I mean when you're stuck and you have no way out of it, it it just it's hard to uh say enough is enough.
SPEAKER_00So Jamil, you have uncovered the pain. Like we know what she wants here. We gotta go. We gotta go here. Like we're running the risk, not maybe not with this seller, but future sellers of being like, brother, I told you. Like, this is what I need. I need to be in town. I I need to be able to walk and go get my groceries. I want to be able to go to my job without having to rely on somebody with for a car ride. Like she's told us. I don't think that there's any more that we can pull from her. She seems she sounds to me like she's kind of done the math. She's determined what she needs. We need to address the situation and the fact that that number might not be feasible, but we could get her pretty close to that. How can we make that number work to achieve the majority of her hopes with these funds that she's going to receive? We definitely got to go. I think we're we're we're really close in with other sellers with different personality types. We would have already breached the the point of too many questions about my pain. I've already told you, like, let's move on. I I want to talk about selling my house.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I mean, I know that ideally you would you said you would buy the next place, but in order to get that that stress off of you, you know, get that mental breakthrough, get you to that next chapter. Are you willing to to at least rent for the time being? You know, and then hopefully you can save up with the job and then go buy something else down the road.
SPEAKER_01That's what I was saying. If I get an apartment or something, I'll do that too. I mean, I'm I'm willing to get an apartment or something like that. I've done I've done considered that. Say an apartment or something, just get my stuff on my feet, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I hear you. So, how much do you do you need to to pay off these some of these bills and get into that apartment then?
SPEAKER_01Well, usually to get an apartment, I usually want first and last month's rent and deposit.
SPEAKER_02Uh this is one of the best conversations I think I've ever had.
SPEAKER_01This is nothing to get in the I agree. Um, if you get electric and all that stuff, okay. Basically pay off the truck. If I can't, I want to pay completely all $10,000 to $12,000 to pay it off.
SPEAKER_00Um I think that was probably my favorite moment of the call. The fact that you could disconnect from it, kind of mute yourself, and just be like, this call's going really well. That's a that's a small little thing, but it's the fact that you are enjoying the process. Like you're enjoying the fact that you're really understanding what she's trying to accomplish, and you're you're achieving that through the questions that you're asking. Again, Jamil, I don't want to persuade you away from what's happening on this call. I just fear that if you make this too much of a habit, like you're kind of asking the same things repeatedly, and she keeps giving you a similar response. Now, she brought up the renting. Now we're exploring a new option. Again, I keep going back to it. At some point in time, we've got to steer away from the pain and the motivation, what she's trying to accomplish. I think we know that. I'd really like to see you start moving because at some point in time we're we're gonna run out of time. We're gonna run out of the fact that it's like, and in the fear in conversations like this, is everything sounds great when we're asking about the pain and the motivation and everything. Because she still thinks that you're gonna give her $40,000 to $50,000. We haven't breached that subject yet. These conversations can drastically change once we start bringing that up, and so that's one of the fears that I have of this is like does the tonality of the conversation shift because for so long we were all about her needs and what we're trying to accomplish, and we're never bringing up the fact that the 40 to 50,000 might not be feasible for us. Now, you kind of brought it up there a little bit with the rent. Let's see where you go from here. I this is the moment. Like, I really think we've got to start moving towards talking about what we need.
SPEAKER_01I owe about maybe seven, eight thousand dollars of in old bills, and I need to have like loans I got and stuff like that when I lost my job. I got a loan like advanced American and something like that. I'd be happy to pay that completely off instead of giving them $23 every time I get a chance. Um, I'm gonna make some money for them. I got them, pay that off. Um my husband and let me get a stable environment with my son. I get my son's stuff ready for school. He's going into high school this year, so he's gonna need like a laptop and other things that he doesn't have. And then just maybe some extra training to just relax and breathe. So I don't have to stress over everything.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I and that that's that's my number one goal. If I can help you relax and breathe, and I can make a couple dollars in the process, that that's the kind of deal I want to buy. So all in then, what what does that look like for you? You said the truck, uh, first and last months. What what does that total to?
SPEAKER_01It's gonna be at least about 20 to move to pay out the truck, get a down payment, get bills called bills are about almost a thousand almost a thousand
Turning Discovery Into A Real Offer
SPEAKER_01dollars.
SPEAKER_03This is where it gets sketchy. Now I gotta transition to closing.
SPEAKER_01Oh boy, all right.
SPEAKER_03So if we can get you that down payment, we can talk it. So I know a little bit of money in your pocket because that's how it's my DS look for 40.
SPEAKER_01Um for 50.
SPEAKER_00I know the great advice by Ken. Love, love this togetherness camaraderie. Like, this is amazing, right? Here, Chris giving the shout out. That was fantastic advice by Ken. That is the transition for you in the future, Jamil. Like, you've you've been sitting in this pocket for so long. I think you were kind of afraid to be like, this is going so good. I almost feel like I could just keep asking her the same thing, and it's it's really flowing. She keeps giving me the answers that I want to hear. Now, now you got to take that authority, and you do that. You can still do that by asking the question that Ken asked right there. I was I hope to see that delivered with the same authority that Ken gave it during that moment.
SPEAKER_01The land is valued at 60 or more, but I was hoping it was 40 and 50, just uh make me feel concerned.
SPEAKER_02So I hear ya. So, I mean, if if I help you pay off the truck, move you to that safe environment for for you, your husband, your kid, and everything like that, um, get some of the stress off you and everything like that. Does that sound like it'd be a solution for you?
SPEAKER_01Uh it does.
SPEAKER_02Okay. All right. So if I if I can at least do that, would it work?
SPEAKER_01How much are you thinking?
SPEAKER_02I I'm still finishing up running numbers, but like I said, I I only win if you win. So I just want to make sure if I do at least that and maybe put a little bit of money in your pocket, that it's it's setting you up for success.
SPEAKER_01Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_02Would that set you up for success?
SPEAKER_01I believe it would it would be a good first start, a good kickoff, you know.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01I believe it will be a good start, a good kickoff, yeah.
SPEAKER_02All right. So let's see if um let's see if we can we can make this happen.
Walking Through The Purchase Process
SPEAKER_02Um now, of course, I'll I'll just let you know what the process looks like. If I come in or what what happens, we're having this conversation now. If we come to an agreement on numbers, I'll send you over a really simple two-page agreement. Just says I'm the buyer, you're the seller, address, stuff like that. We're gonna go over it together, make sure that you uh understand it. You don't have any questions, concerns, anything like that. Uh, once it's signed, we're gonna come out there, just check out the house, check it out, make sure it is what you said it was. Long as the kitchen's not flooded, not a tree on the roof, something like that. Uh, we'll be good on that front. At the same time, we're gonna get title open. They're there to protect you as a seller and me as the buyer. Um, they're gonna do their stuff in the background. As long as they come back, you know, and say that the house is good as well, as far as clean title, then we'll get this closed on your timeline and at that price. If one of those things comes back different, we may have to come back to the drawing board and try to figure out something else. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01Oh my sense, all right.
SPEAKER_02So let me ask you if I were to come in.
SPEAKER_00I don't love the kill shot here. He's about to deliver the so that was a reverse rapport, and then he's delivering the kill shot. My fear with the the kill shot here, and this is uh this is a little bit like technical and like intuition based, Jamil. So I I can't like give you a hard time for using it. The fear is that we never really addressed the the price point being incorrect, and she has consistently said 40 to 50,000. So if we hit her with the kill shot, the kill shot could be could give us exactly what we were anticipating if she says 40,000 again, because in her mind she's like, Well, I told you my asking price was actually 50, so I'm giving you the discount with the 40. Um, and you had positioned yourself so well that I I felt like you lost kind of a point of momentum that you had there, where you were like, hey, if if we could give you, you know, first and last month's rent and pay off the car and get you moved and and kind of put a little bit of money in your pocket, would that would that solve your problem? She's like, Yeah, I think it would. That would be a great restart for me. That to me was like your permission to come in and say, so based off of what we just discussed, I could do that with an offer of X. And it that would have made more sense to me with how the conversation was navigated than the kill shot here. I don't know what you're what number you're hoping for. Um, you had mentioned 35,000 earlier, so I I don't know if that's the number that we're going for could be achievable. I just based off of how she's navigated this, I feel like there's a solid chance that she's gonna say 40,000 again after the kill shot, and then you're gonna have to overcome that. Um the other thing is you felt so calm during the conversation all the way up until right before the reverse rapport and now the kill shot. You're doing a really good job of navigating the the the reverse rapport and the kill shot, but right before it you seem nervous. I don't know why. You done such a good job, you were really in the pocket. Seems like there's a little gap there between uh discovery of the pain and the motivation, and then transitioning over. We'll see how this kill shot
Kill Shot Creates A Price Standoff
SPEAKER_00works.
SPEAKER_02Cash, cover all the closing costs, no realtor fees, no commissions, anything like that. Heather, what's the the best price you think you can do for me today?
SPEAKER_01I'm really set on my price, the 40 to 50. I'm really kind of settled on that.
SPEAKER_03I should I knew I should have threw the number. I should have just threw the number.
SPEAKER_00You earned the right to say the number and then explain why. And and you didn't, and it's now you have to overcome this because she she answered in the worst possible way. I'm kind of stuck on my number. You should have delivered your number and then explained how it solves her problem. That's what you earned, and you didn't capitalize.
SPEAKER_01Probably the 40, 40 to 50, 40, 45,000.
SPEAKER_03There was no education. I didn't educate her. It's not too late.
SPEAKER_01Tell her, I mean, it's the lowest I think I would consider going.
SPEAKER_00Ken's right. It's not too late. She doesn't know, she doesn't know that you need it for less than that. You haven't even approached that as part of the conversation. So there's no reason for her to come down on price. She's in her mind, it's like, I've been telling you 40 to 50,000, I've been telling you all these issues that I have. There's no reason for her to come down on price because quite frankly, you've never told her that you don't know if you can do that or not. And you said you wanted to make money at the beginning, but you just didn't capitalize on the opportunity right there.
SPEAKER_03Why doesn't it work? I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I hear you. Um, so let me ask you just to be clear, uh, because I'm seeing some conflicting information. Is it one acre or five?
SPEAKER_01It's one acre. It was five. It was divided between me and my sisters because I said statement inheritance. But all my sisters sold their land before I did, so my uncle bought all their land. They were on drugs and shit, so they sold to him for like two thousand dollars, shit like that, which is stupid as fuck. Anyways, I still I still I'm the only one with the trailer on it, but mine's at 1.11 acres or 1.1 acres, however it's red.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah, that's that's what I figure, and that's that's my only concern is from the numbers I'm seeing
Low Offer Without The Why
SPEAKER_02here. Um I think that if I were to buy this off of you for the 40 to 50, I I would end up upside down. Uh just because it's I I was thinking that maybe it was the five acres, but unfortunately it's uh it's just the one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I mean to be honest with you, I I was really hoping that you would say the um the 20,000 would would be a solution for you and get this done.
SPEAKER_01Is this your number?
SPEAKER_02It is. Um but let me ask you, would selling for the the 20,000 put you in a better position?
SPEAKER_01No, not really.
SPEAKER_02You don't think so?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_02Why is that?
SPEAKER_01Not really.
SPEAKER_02Am I tripping over the last 40-minute conversation?
SPEAKER_00No, you're you're tripping. What she told you was I want to move into town. I have to move into town. I've got all these unpaid bills, I've got these loans, I've got this car payment, I've got to sell this to put myself in a better financial position. So she has this asset that she wants to sell in order to do that. Now, she's tried to sell it on the MLS. We didn't talk about that feedback, we didn't talk about what happened there. We just we stayed in the pocket too long about what she's trying to accomplish. So we know a ton about what she's trying to accomplish. We didn't breach the subject about well, what happened to it when you already tried to do this and it failed. If you had a property listed in the 70s, if someone was going to offer you 50, they would have offered you 50. I mean, that was that was on the MLS. Um, I think that there's a an issue here where you you felt too good about her opening up because of her personality about the pain and the story and the motivation. And so now at this point, you're ignoring what she's trying to accomplish, and you never really breach the subject about the fact that as an investor, we have to do this math. We have to know what the property could be worth, we have to know how much work we have to put into it, and this is how we come up with our numbers. We we haven't ever talked about that. There's no real education, there was just really discovery, and then a hope and a prayer of a kill shot, and now a low ball. We just kind of broke the fundamentals right there, right? We stayed in the pocket too long and we didn't transition throughout the call. And when you never really took the reins here as the real estate professional, um, I I called for it multiple times hoping that you would do it, but it just never kind of came out.
SPEAKER_01Cover everything that I got.
SPEAKER_03If I paid this dismiss and give me maybe 5,000, just say how the number.
SPEAKER_02I thought you said 12 for the truck.
SPEAKER_0112 for the truck, yeah. About seven for the other pills I owe. And then about two to three thousand to get the down payment for the apartment.
SPEAKER_03So give her an extra five and call it a day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's it would be all right.
SPEAKER_02That's like a solution for you, right?
SPEAKER_01Oh no.
SPEAKER_00Let me let me talk about how the issue here is that you're not talking about how 40 is not feasible for an investor. Like, she wants 40, she doesn't understand why she's not getting 40. You're just saying, hey, altogether, you're saying all these bills equal 20, and that solves your problem, right? Yeah, doesn't mean I don't want to get 40. I told you I want more money in my bank account. I want to, I want to relax. I don't want to be stressed. You haven't told her why you're why 40 is not feasible to any investor, not just Jamil, but anybody. We we didn't educate that, so we're just hoping and praying with this lowball and saying, but you told me all these problems that you have, all these needs, and I'm solving the majority of them because you're not gonna buy a house, you're gonna go rent an apartment. And I I'm giving you this, and it pays off all your bills, but that's not what she's all that's not the only things that she's trying to accomplish, and she doesn't know why that's what you're you can offer.
Husband Factor And Follow-Up Control
SPEAKER_01That's what about see what he thinks.
SPEAKER_02I hear he is it's not a small decision. Um, but what do you think he'll end up saying?
SPEAKER_01I have absolutely no idea.
SPEAKER_02Okay, would he possibly be available now?
SPEAKER_01You know, he's at work, he's outside at work, cutting trees. He's gonna be coming home soon, but I don't know when last time he didn't get home until one o'clock in the morning.
SPEAKER_03Oh man. Yeah, it's gonna be rough.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Is anyone else trying to get this done for you?
SPEAKER_01I'll send you a message tomorrow on this number. If we we we agree to proceed or not. I mean that's tomorrow, I really like your opinion. I don't know. I just need his opinion.
SPEAKER_02I hear ya. Let me ask you, Heather, has anybody else uh been there to try to get this done for you?
SPEAKER_01Well, I had I had a few different people somebody that's gonna give me an offer, but it'll take a few days to get back to me for an offer stuff, but other than that, not early.
SPEAKER_03So I'm the so I'm the first person to actually sit here and try to solve this problem for you. So be with you to the end of this.
SPEAKER_00I hear you, I understand. It that would have been a better moment for her to say, basically, yeah, silence. Let that resonate. That was a that was a powerful question. She gave you a response, but again, Jamil, you you're you're fighting a battle you're never gonna win here because she doesn't know why you're offering what you're offering, and so it's just there's no basis when she goes to speak to her husband. How could she explain why they should accept 20,000 when in their mind they're thinking they want 50,000? There's no understanding there. That's where this call got lost.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, just like I said, I only win if you win. Um, I just and I understand it's not a small decision at all, but I just want to make sure that would put you in a better position, right? Doing all those things.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was still looking for some little rooms, yeah. Okay, it's a home, a whole home and land at I'm selling, you know, it's not like it's just somebody's car or something, you know.
SPEAKER_02Chris, do you agree with what Ken's saying? Add the podcast.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, just give it a try and just set expectations.
SPEAKER_0227. 27 is good. Go for it.
SPEAKER_03Go for it.
SPEAKER_02I I hear you.
SPEAKER_00So let me ask you if it feels like that. Uh again, this to me is a misstep because she already told you that she's gonna have to speak to her husband. The husband's just as much a part of this convers decision as anybody. Um, the the correct move right here would have been what time tomorrow would you and your husband both be available so I can sit down and speak to both of you guys so we can come to a conclusion and and and try to make a decision on what we can do here. I'm the only person that's really sat down and taken the time to try to solve this. I want to have your husband be involved in this decision as well as his right. I need him to be a part of this. So what time can I call you tomorrow with both of you? That's that's the right answer here. Not increasing your offer because now she's gonna go tell the husband, well, originally they offered 20 and then they went up to 27. I think we could totally get him up to 35.
SPEAKER_02If if I were to do all those and then put, you know, uh an extra 5,000 in your pocket, would that work for you?
SPEAKER_01It sounds better, but I guess I gave his opinion. So I did something better, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so I mean, do you need his opinion no matter what then?
SPEAKER_01Or yeah, I was I was I was hoping to get his he is my husband, you know. I was hoping to get his support on whatever it is I do, you know.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I hear you.
SPEAKER_00So now without listening to what the seller said, you did such a good job of listening earlier, and then here you're desperate to get the contract, so now you're chasing your own tail. You just ate five grand, you just you chewed it up and you ate it instead of doing what you should have done, which is explain to her why you were offering what you're offering. I can't offer anything less or anything more than this because of this, and nobody can. The other investors can't do it either because they're gonna have holding costs, they're gonna have closing costs, they're gonna have this rehab. That's where this is lost. So, right here, you just made a I'm going to lose a five thousand dollars because I'm not going to wait on her to speak to her husband. That makes no sense.
SPEAKER_02I hear you. So I guess when when should we uh set up set something up for all three of us to to get on the phone together?
SPEAKER_01Um, I don't know. I don't know what he's doing. I don't know about his work until he comes home every night, but I'll mess you tomorrow at you know what he says, and and I'll I'm gonna leave you hanging.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01All right, thank you.
SPEAKER_02All right, have a going.
Coaching Breakdown And Better Next Steps
SPEAKER_00Man, man, some really good moments there, Jamil. I can see how disheartened you are right there at the end. You're you're really disheartened, and I think this is because uh a misunderstanding of what you're trying to accomplish. Going into this call, during the call, you wanted to get a signed contract. At some point in time inside of the call, it became abundantly clear that that was not going to be the path that this lead, this seller, needed. The seller has a husband. They are she's needing to come down significantly on price. And so, because of that, we need to educate, we need to slow down, we have to be the real estate professional, we need to explain how that makes sense, how it's gonna make everyone's going to have the same numbers, the same needs. So we have to figure out how that could be a solution for what she needs in her life, but also allows us to run our business. And then we have to give time, we have to give respect to their situation. It's not about you getting a signed contract, it's about you offering the solution to the seller and then allowing that seller to have the space to make that decision. This is a massive moment in this seller's life where she's trying to make a potentially life-changing decision. She's legally blind, she's starting her new job in McDonald's, she needs to live inside of the city. Her son is starting high school. They have to buy a laptop, they need to pay out the car, they need to pay out these other loans, they're gonna be renting an apartment now. There's a lot of moving pieces. This is a huge decision, and it's not about you. And unfortunately, what I saw there at the end was man, I'm willing to eat $5,000 to get this seller to try to make a decision now. No, no, we don't always need to one call close. We one call close when it's what's best for the seller and for us. Our intention going into each call is to get a signed contract or to kill the lead because we're not the right solution. But in the situations where the sellers do have a specific reason as to why they need more time, for example, husband's at work, and we're asking her to chop her asking price in half, even more. That needs time. That's a follow-up. Take control. What time tomorrow will your husband go be going to work? 8 a.m. Can I call you at 7:30? 9 a.m. Can I call you at 8:30? I want to get both of you guys on the phone so I can have this conversation so we can try to come to a conclusion. Insert the pain so we can get you inside a city, so you don't have to rely on the rides anymore. So we can get you your son, his laptop, and his clothes for school. All of those things should have been accomplished there at the end. And the next day you should have had a scheduled follow-up appointment. The beginning stages of this, the open-ended questions, the discovery of the pain and the motivation was fantastic. You felt very comfortable there, you lived there a little bit too long, and you kind of struggle with some transition moments. And then I could feel the agony at the end when you weren't getting the result. Understand that when we identify in the four seller buckets, a seller that has the incorrect price but is highly motivated, we are going to close a small percentage of those. You need to position a seller to say, I don't care about your math. I don't care about your numbers. I'm going to keep my house because it doesn't solve my problems. Or they say, Okay, I understand what you're telling me. I understand that you're the best solution for me. I accept. That was missing from this call because we avoided educating the seller whatsoever. We went with the low ball. We went with trying to manufacture the deal, losing money,
Community Shoutouts And CTA
SPEAKER_00and you ended up in the same place that you were going to end up, anyways. A follow-up the next day. Everybody that's been watching, give Jamil some love in the comments for submitting this. Again, this series is about TU members submitting calls that didn't go great. So you could get better, so they could get better, so they could start closing and finding more deals. Thank you, Jamil. Thank you, Ken, Aliceign, Chris, all the guys that were on here. Love seeing you guys word together, help each other out. You're making each other better. Love seeing that day in and day out. Show me some love. Like today's video. We'll see you guys tomorrow.