Thrive In Love & The Problem With 'Feminine/Masculine' Teachings

Love should not feel like survival mode. We’re talking about what it really means to get the love you want and why a relationship is only worth choosing if you can actually thrive inside it. We get honest about the shame women are taught to carry for wanting partnership, being adored, or wanting effort, and we challenge the dangerous idea that “love is all you need” when the day-to-day reality is burnout, anxiety, and carrying the mental load alone.

We also dig into dating and early relationship dynamics with a clear lens: actions matter, but patterns matter more. We talk about why you cannot “earn” commitment by chasing, why matching energy is a form of self-respect rather than a game, and why ignoring that off feeling can be costly. I name the reality of love bombing and performative green flags, and I explain what to look for over time so you can make decisions based on safety, consistency, and compatibility.

Then we go straight into the feminine and masculine energy conversation. Some of those teachings helped me shift communication and change the dynamic in my own marriage, and I won’t throw away what works. But we also call out how these spaces get weaponised: rigid gender roles, centring men, praising bare minimum, blaming women for systemic inequality, and pushing financial dependence or emotional silence. The goal is a relationship built on reciprocity, shared competence, and real support, not a pretty story that keeps women stuck.

If you want more conversations like this, subscribe, share this episode with a friend, and leave a review so more women can find it and raise the standard together.

More from me and to work with me, go to KirstyDee.com

Transcript

Welcome To Truth And Transformation

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is the podcast for the women ready to break some rules, for the women who are fed up of pouring into everyone else and not getting what they want. This is where you discover what is true for you and you transform and alchemize the areas of your life that is not doing it for you. Welcome to Truth and Transformation. I'm your host, Kirsty D. Let's go. Hello, hello, hello, lovelies. Today I want to talk to you about getting the love that you want, having the relationship that you want, owning what you want, and also I want to talk about the feminine and masculine space and the problems with that space, but also the things that really, really served me in that space for a time, and I wouldn't have the relationship I have without it. But then how it got weaponized and how it's kind of become poisonous for lots of us. And I want to talk about that because I've seen some stuff that is just like, oh, that's shady, that's not cool, but I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. So we're gonna talk about we're gonna talk about it all. But

Owning Desire Without Shame

SPEAKER_00 1:00

I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna start with you getting the relationship you want, you getting the love you want, you honouring what you want and being honest with yourself and your desires. This is something that I see a lot where women want a relationship and you know they're conditioned that that's like they're not supposed to want that and to feel shame around that. And it's like not everybody wants that, and that's also okay. Like if you're if you're not fussed, like I totally, totally understand that. You know, it was a long, long time ago when I was single, but I loved being single, and um, I think the obsession that you can only be happy in a romantic relationship is just ridiculous, and it's also very patriarchal. However, that being said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with if you do want to be in a relationship and you do want to be deeply loved and you do want to be deeply adored, or like whatever it is, whatever the dynamic is for you, I want to help you get that if that is something you want, because I know it's something a lot of people want, and as I said, there's nothing to be ashamed about for that. I think that can be a really, really, really, really beautiful desire. So I want to go back from if like you're dating, the things that can like really set that dynamic up, and also if you're already in a relationship and you're not like fully happy, what can create the alchemy and what can create the change? And then I also want to talk about the feminine and kind of masculine space and the things that can be helpful, things that can be problematic, the things that may be helpful for some people and like not good for you. I want to talk about it all. So I'm gonna start back from

Thriving Beats Good On Paper

SPEAKER_00 2:46

the beginning. So I have been with my husband, it will be 20 years this year in October. Um, and we got married like not long after, like just over a year of being together. So it'll be like 19 years in December. We've been married, and I didn't realise this at the time, but I did things then that kind of set up a dynamic to be in a relationship with somebody that was going to become a man that would literally like pretty much do anything for me, like in a healthy way. I'm not talking about like unhealthy shit because you know, somebody completely abandoning themselves actually doesn't serve you. But you know what I mean. And I say so many women, and they either don't have that, or they do have somebody that loves them and they they love each other, but the dynamic isn't one where she can thrive, and that's something that I really, really care about, something that I hear all the time, and I spoke about this a little bit last week. Which people will say, particularly women, because women are conditioned to do this, like, oh, but he's a good man, and oh, but he's a decent man, and this, and it's like, okay, I I believe you. And also sometimes I I will say that the bar is so so so so so low that like sometimes they're not that great, but sometimes they are. Sometimes they are genuinely like quote-unquote good guys, decent guys, but I mean this in the most fucking respectful way that I can say this. I don't really give a shit if they're a good, decent guy. I care if you can thrive with the person that you're with, because you know when they say this bollocks like love is all you need, it is bollocks, right? You can be with somebody and they can be a decent person, and they can be a good person, and you can love them to bits, and it can end up being a poison for you. Because if you can't thrive with that person, and like that is going to eventually catch up, and that is not good for you, and that is not good for them. And what I see is, and this is something that you're gonna hear me talking about every week because I will die on this hill because I it's something I really care about, something I'm really, really passionate about. What I see all the time is women in relationships where they can't where they cannot thrive currently, where they end up the default for like in invisible labour, they end up holding so many things, and the these people that they're with, you usually a man, but like just just doesn't just doesn't get it. And she's overwhelmed and she's anxious and she's feeling not enough, and she's feeling too much, and she's feeling like like just she's just feeling a lot, and it's like I still I don't care if he's a good guy, I don't care if he's a good guy, can you thrive with this person? That's what I care about. Can you feel really supported? Like, do you feel really supported? And yes, there's always work on our side to do this, but what I see, and I again I talked about this last week, but I'm gonna keep banging on this. What I see is women and they're like working on themselves, and they're, you know, going to therapy, or they've got a coach, or they're listening to a podcast, or they're like reading books, they're journaling, they're manifesting, they're doing all the things, but there was somebody who doesn't do those things, and also your partner doesn't necessarily need to do those things because there can be beauty in us being different, but there does need to be a foundation where you can thrive, where you can be well, where you can feel really, really supported, and of course, this goes both ways, but what we know statistically is women end up far worse off being married than men, literally in every way, like financially, their health, like they end up, you know, doing more domestic labor, they end up doing more emotional labor, like mental labor, like all of these things, they end up often like behind in in their career, like financially, they are often more stressed, overwhelmed, anxious, like all of these things where married men, men who are married to women, and again, we can apply this to kind of all dynamics, but we have a real problem in heterosexual relationships. I'm gonna talk about that. Um, where men's mental health is better, they have more money, they're happier, they're less stressed, they're less overwhelmed because they have a wife. Let's let's let's just say it for how it is, because they have a wife. But a woman will have a husband and she's more stressed, and she has more work and all of the things. And we live in a society where when that dynamic is somebody's reality, we blame the woman. And it's I'm I'm not I'm not into it. I'm I'm sick of blaming, like it's just doing my head in that role was blaming women, and and and and and the caveat to that is it's it's always important that we look at our our stuff. Always, always, always. So as I say, when I was um when I'd like just met Tony, I didn't realise, but I had set up a dynamic where I like where there would be a foundation where I did have to do my work, we all have to do our own work, but there would be a foundation where I could thrive. And I want to talk about that for anybody that is dating, but if you're not dating and you're already in a long-term relationship, this will help you kind of understand some of the things, right? And you know, that saying, like knowledge, knowledge is power. So I want to talk about that. So when I met Tony, as I said, I was very, very happy single. I was not trying to impress him, I did not care to impress him. I've shared the story for the people who listened before this podcast got um relaunched. You'll have heard this before, but I was not interested in impressing Tony. I was not, I I like I didn't care, and that's the first kind of clue and thing that I want to give you. Like, you cannot lose anybody that is truly, truly, truly, truly aligned for you. So it's that cliche of like just being authentic to you. Like, if somebody barks and like kind of like runs away, um they have done you a favor, like energetic protection and all of that. I met Tony and I was literally like, oh men at assholes, because that's literally how I felt, and he was like, Hold the line, I'm gonna prove her wrong.

Red Flags Love Bombing And Safety

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Now, what I do want to say about this is, and this is gonna sound really, really pessimistic, but it's also we this is really important to acknowledge because if we don't acknowledge it, it can be really, really dangerous, right? There are people out there that are all green flags, um, and it's it's unfortunately not genuine, you know. Like the the Manosphere is very, very good at teaching men um how to woo somebody, like love bombing and all of these things. Um, like it is quite scary. Like, there are women who was literally like thought they found the the dream man, and like there was no red flags, and they tread them amazingly, and all of this. And then there was like one story that I was reading, and this woman was singing, and then she was like, and then we were nine months into the relationship, and it just felt like it came out of nowhere. She was like, there was genuinely like there was there was like doesn't like there was nothing that I picked up on, and um then he like locked her in the house for four days and wouldn't let her out. Like they've seen so many stories of that. So the reason that I mention that is first of all, usually, not always, and this is why we've got to really be careful of like not um blaming women and and like all of this, because sometimes there there literally isn't science, but sometimes there is, and as in a patriarchal society, women are like not taught to to flag these because they're actually really really normal, like a lot of these things are really really normal. Um, but it's like don't ignore these things if you see them, and I'm also um it doesn't necessarily mean that somebody is like not a good person, like and all of that, but as I said, like I don't really care if somebody's a good person, I care if you can thrive with them. That's really what I care about. So it's it's it's both, okay. So if there are anything in in the beginning where you're like, oh, I'm not sure about that, like either walk away really, really early on and know that you can't lose anyone that's aligned for you, or don't ignore it. And if you keep spawning things early on, then you know, like get out, also set some serious boundaries because there are literally, and here's the thing where you have to have, and this sounds really like I don't know, woo-woo, but like we're here for the woo. Um, you do have to kind of have an abundance. If you go into this like scarcity thing and you think like, oh my gosh, this might be my person, and blah blah blah, like you you can't, you can't do that. Like, even if you want to get married, even if you want to have kids, even if you want to do all of these things, like it is literally not worth it. Like, if you end up, and I like I know that's something some people really really want, but I'm telling you, you do not want that with the wrong person. It is not worth it, it really isn't. I see so many women and they're in relationships and they are miserable and they are depressed, and like, and it can literally happen to anybody. I don't care how secure you are, I don't care how much work you've done, I don't care, like I see people all the time and they'll say things like, oh, I wouldn't put up with that and I wouldn't do this, right? Unfortunately, there are people out there that are very clever and can wear down even the most confident person. Do not ignore shit. Do not ignore shit. Don't do it, don't do it. Nobody is above um not being like vulnerable to you know, again, I don't really want to throw around the word narcissistic because we throw it around too easy, but but also it does exist. Um, and these people are very, very clever at getting in your head and being charismatic, I can't say the word char charismatic charisma You know what I'm saying. I hope you know what I'm saying. Um, they're very, very clever, and we need to not ignore that. Like in the UK, a woman is killed by a man every three days. There are, I don't want to like scare anybody or anything like that. I believe there are so many amazing, wonderful humans out there. If you're into men, I believe there are so many amazing men out there. But we can't ignore the fact that there are some shitbags out there and some dangerous, vile, horrible people out there, and they're very, very clever and they're very, very smart. We gotta talk about that. And it's something in this space, the space I'm in, we don't talk about a lot. Because in the spirituality law of attraction field, there's this very much like thing of like, you know, if you you're attracted if you kind of put that out there. And I'm like, you are causing fucking harm. You are causing harm. That is not how this works, that is not how this works, okay? Stop blaming other people for the shitty things people do, like discernment fucking matters. Let's not ignore stuff anyway. To get back to it, do not, as I say, ignore anything. Like, if there is something that feels off, pay attention to that. I I cannot tell you how many women have said to me, like, oh my gosh, something didn't feel right, and I ignored it. And and I can also speak into that from another side because when I met Tony and we were getting married, I can remember just like knowing to my core like that I was doing the right thing. There wasn't this like doubt, there wasn't this, and when I spoke to other people, they said like they were always a bit like, oh, am I doing the right thing? I never had that. I literally never had that. It doesn't mean that things haven't come up for me and Tony, they have multiple, multiple, multiple times. Um, very recently, we've been walking through some stuff because life has been life on us, and we've had to have a conversation about like compatibility and all of those things. And here's the the other part to that I can thrive in my marriage, and that's the difference. And as I said, like so many people can't, and you know, even if you don't plan on getting married, even if that's something you don't want, like then you have to ask why do you want a relationship? And usually people want a relationship because they think they'll be happier in a relationship. So therefore, if you're looking to be in a relationship, you want to be in a relationship where you can thrive, even if you don't want to get married. If you are looking to be in a relationship, you should be able to thrive. You should be if you are not better off by being in a relationship, why be in a relationship? I I again this thing of like love is enough is is harming people, it's and it particularly harms women, you know. Like women are conditioned from very, very young, you know, like they there are groom magazines, but they are bridal magazines. Like all of these things, and as I said, there is nothing wrong with wanting any of those things. Like if that is what you want, then I'm here to help you get those things, but we can't do it by being naive. So

Actions And Patterns Over Words

SPEAKER_00 18:10

from day one, as I say, with Tony, um like I I knew he was he was he was decent by his words, but more importantly by his actions. And that's the bit that matters, and even more importantly than that, by his pattern, right? Because everybody can say the words, everybody can do the things temporary, but what is their overall pattern? I'm a firm believer in you don't know who somebody is until at least nine months, right? And I and this applies to all relationships, platonic relationships too. This applies to friendships, right? It's about nine months that you will start seeing things, right? Now, that doesn't necessarily mean somebody isn't right for you and that you cannot thrive. Um, it's it this will be the thing where it will show off two people again so that you can thrive, are both gonna work on their stuff. Because in relationships, all your shit's gonna come up, and this applies to all relationships. This applies with with like family, this applies with parenting, this applies with friendship, and of course this applies like in business relationships, and of course, this replies in romantic relationships and intimate, you know, sexual relationships, right? Your shit is going to come up. That is actually a good thing because that is, you know, like an opportunity for you to really be well and you to be really thrive, like your shit comes up in relationships. There is no avoiding it, there is no amount of time you can spend on your own that will prepare you for the initiation. That is a relationship, right? And you will kind of see your shit and you'll see your stuff come up, and it's like the nine months point, that's when I really believe you really get to know if somebody is for you and is somebody's compatible. Now, I'm not saying wait nine months, like if a few weeks in or you're dating someone, you're like, uh-uh, as I say, don't don't ignore that, right? Pay attention to that. But on the other side of that, you can think somebody is really, really amazing, and you can think all these things, and like these women who are like, there was no, there was no red flags, there was none of this, and then like nine months in, because nobody can really hold that forever. Some people can hold it for longer and can hide for longer. Um, and you know, some you know, like some people are arsehole, but some people aren't, they're just not compatible for you. You just cannot thrive with with this person, okay? You will know that generally by about nine months because nine months gives you a time to spend some considerable amount of time with this person. So you'll have ideally, you know, had some dates and you might have had some nights together, and you might have had like a weekend away together. You'll have probably seen them um, you know, when good things have happened to them, they've had a good day, but you've also probably seen them um go through hard things and have like a stressful um you know day or a stressful week or a stressful period. By that point, you see somebody's insecurities, you see somebody's shadows, you get to know their their quirks and stuff. You don't know that in the first day, in the first week, in the first weekend, on the first date, even in the first month or the first two months, right? By about nine months, you see what the per how the person treats other people, how they treat people when they're stressed, all of these things, you see their shadowy side because we All have them, you know, like we we all do, and you can decide if, like, hey, can I still work with this? And can can I still thrive with this? And some people you can, and some people you can't, depending on you and your desires, and and your conditioning, and like all of these things, like that's when you know, and this will be shown in the person's um pattern.

Stop Chasing And Raise Standards

SPEAKER_00 22:28

So, one of the things that I see all the time, and I've never seen a situation where this works, is when um, so if you're a woman and you want to be with a man, but again, apply this to whatever, you know, sex that that is, you know, that you're interested in, right? But this is a dynamic that I particularly see when a woman wants to be with a man, right? I have never seen a dynamic yet where, and I'm not saying again that it's so black and white and there can't be exceptions to this, right? But I have just never seen it yet. And I have been working with women for a long time now, where she has um chased him and she has like done all of these things, and she's be ended up being like really loved and adored and thriving. I have literally never seen that. What I see is the women that have that, these men, their words and their actions and their patterns are consistent, and they pursue them from day one, and it's not just it doesn't just um it's not just for a night, and it's not just for an evening, and it's not just when they get them into bed, and it's it's not just for a few weeks, and it's not just for a few months. At the nine-month point and beyond, they are still fucking doing that. They're still doing that. If they cannot do that for that long, you probably should not be planning a life with them. Because you may not care right now, but I can tell you you'll care down yours down the line when you cannot thrive, when you are overwhelmed, when you watch your other girlfriends and your other friends um be spoiled and adored and loved, and their partners will pretty much do anything for them, and your partner is just not gonna do that, right? There was always signs, there was always signs, and this is what I say to people like if they can't make much effort in the beginning, they are not gonna get any better, they're gonna get more complacent, they're gonna get more and more complacent, right? But a man who already shows up in the beginning and makes effort and inconveniences himself, the longer you're together, they're gonna just keep wanting to do more of that because they don't want to lose you. Like they they see your value, and how people date is how people do life, right? As I say, uh talking nine because anybody can you know be incredible for a night, anybody can be incredible on a date, anyone can be really generous and everyone can be really kind for a couple of weeks, a couple of months, right? But what is the pattern? What is the pattern? And so when I met Tony, you know, he did make effort, and that should be bare minimum, let's be honest, that should be bare minimum, right? But I met him down south, and then I went back up north, and he would be working all week and he'd spend his weekends and he would drive up to see me. Um and I know women who like the like dudes won't even like 20 minutes, you know, don't even bother replying, don't even bother like texting back. Um they they don't make much effort. It's like don't ignore that, don't ignore that, right? And even if, right, you just you know, you want to just kind of enjoy dating, you don't want anything too serious, like still have a minimum, like what is the minimum quality? This is about knowing your worth, and so many women have been taught that they can't, like, you know, don't be seen as wanting too much, like, no, bitch, be high maintenance. High and I say high maintenance very, very loosely because it doesn't take a lot for a woman to be called high maintenance, but like there is no compliment in being low maintenance, there's no compliment in being easy breezy and cool and all of these things, like you don't get respected, you don't get love, and you don't get adored, and you don't get valued that way. Like you don't, and I don't mean like be dickhead, but like you can be kind and you can be more kind if you hold a certain standard. It is not too much, and if a man tells you it is, it's that's it, then go and find less. Go and find less. But the women that are really, really loved and really really adored, then then they're not they're not frightened of that. And this really comes down to so many women, like think they won't um be okay or that won't happen for them. But that is bullshit. There's bullshit so many people want to be in a relationship, and I don't care you know what you look like and whether you have a career or not, like all of these things that you think make you um like not desirable, like and all of those things, it is bull crap because there is millions of people that would be interested in you, and okay, that might that might be slightly exaggerated, but there is a lot, probably would actually be millions, because you think of how many people are in the world, right? Everybody's attracted to something different, everybody likes something different. There are people out there that just as you are, it's just like, oh my gosh, right? And you have to you have to trust that, you have to trust that, right? And your work is to keep pouring into you, to focus on you, right? You cannot edit yourself and keep trying to be better enough to get somebody to value you. That the truth of that is that gets you less of that. You have to focus on you and pouring into you and taking care of you, and it never ever works when you are just trying to be chosen, when you're trying to be desired, when you are trying, there is nothing wrong with wanting to be adored, there's nothing what wrong with wanting to be desired. It is very, very human. I like being desired, I like being chosen, I like being validated, I like people um loving on me all of those things. Like I am not fucking above that. Like I have that patriarchal conditioning that I've had to really, really work on not centering men and not putting my worth on all of those things. But I've had to do a lot of work around that. What I didn't realize when I met Tony, I was it was coming to be honest from a from a shadowy place, but I I was already doing that, but like unconsciously. I was kind of like, oh, fuck whatever you think, etc. etc. etc. Right. But of course, like I still like it. Like it feels good to be desired, it feels good to be wanted, it feels good to be chosen. But the problem is it becomes very, very dangerous because then what happens when the person stops messaging you and they don't get back to you and they don't do those things, like you feel like shit. You feel not enough. So you can't do that to yourself. Like, we have to stop chasing the people, and this applies to all relationships, platonic relationships too. Like, if people aren't getting back to you, like don't chase them. And this isn't about playing games, it is about honoring yourself, it is about setting up a dynamic that you can thrive. I'm big on this, what I always say to people like match people's energy. Match people's energy, right? If they are not enthusiastically coming to you and they are not making the effort, match it. Match it, right? That's not being inauthentic, right? That's not being inauthentic, that is knowing your worth. Being inauthentic is pretending to be somebody you're not, right? That's being inauthentic. Having boundaries and matching people is not inauthentic, it is knowing your worth. It is not putting your power outside of you, chasing people who are not fucking pouring into you. Like, I did not pour into Tony. I didn't. I poured into myself and then he poured into me. He poured into me and he wanted to pour into me because he was into me. He knew he wanted me. He wasn't like if somebody's unsure about you, they're not they're not your person. They're not your person. Like, if in the beginning they are not sure about you, they're not your person. And I know some people don't want to hear that. And I'm not saying there can't be exceptions where somebody like that dynamic wasn't there, and then after years they've both decided, okay. But like, come on, let's not let's not kid ourselves, right? That that is rare, and if you're chasing that, you're still waiting to be picked. It's never going to work. This doesn't work in any dynamic, right? This doesn't work with family that doesn't see your value, this doesn't work with colleagues that don't see your value, this doesn't work with friends, this doesn't work with clients, this doesn't work with community. Like, why would we think it would work in a romantic sense? It does not. It it literally does not. There I have not met a woman yet that has kind of gone, well, you know what? Like, I kept pursuing him and I kept chasing him, and bam, I got him, and that felt good. No, no, no, no, no. It does not. It doesn't. And again, I want to be very, very mindful of not like putting kind of rigid gender kind of things, okay? But this is where you have to just be honest with yourself, right? But I have known men, and I have known a lot of men. They're like, oh, I pursued her and I did this and I did that, and then they're like, ah, now I've got a date with her, and like other dudes are like, yay, like all of that, right? Most women don't like chasing. Like, we don't like it, it does not feel good. Take with that what you will. As I say, depending on who you're attracted to, the gender you're attracted to, again, apply what what's relevant, okay? But you just have to be honest with yourself. Do you like that dynamic? Because most of us, most of the people, I've not found a woman yet that likes the dynamic of chasing. So if you don't like that, you have to hold a standard and you have to let them come to you. You have to let them come to you. That as I say, I'm gonna keep saying this. That is not playing games, that is not playing games, that is pouring into yourself, and then when and only when they have deemed themselves worthy, right? Because you've got to know your fucking worth, then you can choose from a full cup and with boundaries and checking in with yourself, you can start pouring into them because that actually feels good, and that's when we can create reciprocity, right? That's when we can create an ecosystem. I pour into Tony all the time, but the best way that I pour into Tony is I pour into myself, right? A man that does not want you to pour into yourself is not a man that you can thrive with. Is not. And as I say, you will care years down the line. Right.

When You Are Not Thriving

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Now I'm gonna talk about if you're already in a relationship, right, and you are currently not thriving in your relationship, and your relationship is not like where you want it to be, and it's not like if you're honest with yourself, it's not really doing it for you, okay? I'm gonna weave this into the masculine and feminine teachings, right? Because there are things in those teachings, right? Some of them, not all of them, some people teach this in a very, very dangerous way, the manosphere teaches this in a very, very dangerous way. But there are people that teach this in a way, and I think they've got some really good, valuable points. However, I've come to the conclusion now where things are in the world. Um I'm just really not into teaching on feminine and masculine dynamics, but I am gonna tell you the bits that I think are are good. Um, but I think we can have these things and have these dynamics without boxing things into feminine and masculine, okay? And I'm gonna explain why why that is. So I was really, really heavy in the teachings of like masculine and feminine, divine feminine, divine masculine, right? And there was a time when that really, really served me, okay. And actually, I would say really, really helped me to have a relationship now where I can really, really thrive, right? And where I could really alchemize some shit in my relationships, right? Because that's what I really care about. It's all good and well, like me saying, right, here's the things, like if you're dating, here's the things, right? Um, that is something that if you want to kind of change your dating life and all of that, that is something that you can hire me for, go to kstd.com and we can like do all of that work together, right? But I want to create a dynamic where it's not just like a few chosen ones that have like a great relationship where the rest of the women in the world like struggle. Like for me, we have to um we have to look at the system, we have to look at the patriarchal conditioning. Like, I want where that is the norm where anybody that's choosing to be in a relationship, like the norm is that people are thriving, not the norm is not that people are in survival mode, okay. So, and one of the things that I really believe is stopping that at the moment is a lot of these feminine and masculine teachings. And but the reason people um find themselves into those spaces, the reason I found myself into those spaces is because some of the the stuff within those teachings um is really, really helpful and and and it taps into something that a lot of people, a lot of people want. So they can be really, you know, attractive. And because also you do see things, um, you might see things where certain things get better, um, which can make you then want to go into that space even more. But I'm really starting to see, but actually long term, I think it makes things more problematic. And that is what I kind that is what I started to see. So something that helped in the beginning. And this is kind of like the same with anything that's problematic. Like you go to it in the beginning because it works. You're like, oh, this works. It's it's kind of like any psychic, not that I would call this, you know, the feminine masculine space an addiction. Um, but it it can be it can be problematic, it can be, in some cases, even quite cult-like. Um, but it's like in the beginning it works, and in the beginning, things seem to be better, and that is how you end up there. But it's like, hmm, long term, but because you have those experiences, it's like you're not gonna like pull away. And this is what I'm really, really seeing in kind of like the spirituality space and the feminine and and masculine space, and like the divine feminine, and this, that, and the other. And then I see people and they're still overwhelmed and they're not really happy, and their relationships aren't doing it, and they're not thriving, and all of this, and I'm like, haha, is this actually working then? Or is it actually making things more problematic, right?

What Those Teachings Get Right

SPEAKER_00 39:33

So, what I think is really, really um good about these, about these spaces is we know so often in society um we don't acknowledge difference, okay? We know, for instance, a lot of like medical like research and stuff is done on men, right? So, what happens in the feminine and masculine space is often it's a lot about like honoring a woman's like cyclical nature that you know that she has a cycle, and certain times in the month she's gonna have more energy and less energy and all of those things, right? So it acknowledges a lot of those things that can be really, really helpful a lot of the time in in the feminine space. The things I was speaking about earlier that it that is spoken about in the feminine space around not chasing and all of these things. And as I said, like I see dynamics. Um, so it looks like it's like really for women, right? And I and I've seen this really, really help women where they're like, oh my gosh, I'm I'm not doing that anymore. And I'm gonna know my worth and I'm gonna like not chase, and etc. etc. etc. And as you can imagine, that changes dynamics, that changes like the dating game, right? It changes so many things. So people are like, Oh, I'm gonna be in this space. It also will talk about um listening to your um, you know, intuition and not always doing and being again when you've got women that are so burnt out and like conditioned to not pour into themselves, you go into those spaces and it's like just be you and just focus on you. Of course, so good for women, like like so incredibly helpful, right? And and also in the in the same regard, there's you know, in these spaces, the masculine is often um, you know, like the energetic is often seen as like the provider, and even though like in these spaces, they'll often say we both have both energies, so it's not as rigid as that. But let's be honest, it often like gets put on, you know, this this the man is this way and he's the provider and stuff, right? And that can sound really, really toxic. And it I'm gonna talk about the the dangerous and the bad side of that because that is the thing, it can become very dangerous and very, very problematic. But there's a side of that can be really helpful, right? Because we live in a society where so many men um are conditioned to see women as as goal diggers and all of these things, and it can, and so many people will get into arguments with their partners around these things, and etc. etc. etc. So it can kind of bring pride in actually being financially you know responsible and all of that, right? Not always, but for some people that can happen, and that can be like a really, really good thing, and that happened in Man and Tony's relationship, actually, because we both had a lot of scarcity around um money and stuff, and what this space did, it helped me own something that a lot of people want. I'm not saying everybody, but I know a lot of women want this, like, and um again, I'm not trying to sound patronizing because I'm not saying every woman, right? But I know a lot of women want this, and some women don't know they want this, and then actually when they start doing work, they're like, Oh my gosh, I do want this, but I feel really embarrassed. I feel like society is really, really going to judge that, you know. Like, I hear women all the time, they're like, Oh, you know, I I don't want much, I'm not bothered about this, I'm not bothered about that. But actually, when they really, really tap in and they really, really tune in, they're like, it actually would be really nice to be with a man who wants to spoil me, who wants to nourish me, who wants to do all of these things. And I realized through, and it gave me this permission to be unapologetic and to own my desires. And I was like, I do want that. I want a man who wants to spoil me, who wants to do like I would see these posts, and it'd be like, um, you know, women aren't bold about this, and they aren't bold about flowers. And I know that is genuine for a lot of people, but I was like, I actually do like that. I actually really like it when Tony does those things and he, you know, he plans dates and like all of these things. Like, I want that. I want to be spot. I want a man who buys me flowers, I want a man who plans dates. I want a man that like yeah like does all of those things and what it did is it helped me to own all of that and be like yeah Tony I want like I I I want that like I want that and not in this way of see I think it's really unhealthy and this is where it can become very very ugly when you're putting that pressure on someone and I think it's also really important for every woman to be financially um autonomous and have your own money and all of that but my point is it can help people um emit desires that they might not be able to emit because people will look down on it um you know in the in a world of like the hyper-independent woman it's like what this base does is it helps women to kind of go I actually do want a man who will organize a date I actually do want a man who will buy me flowers I actually do want a like all of these things right and I think this is why so many people turn to these spaces right and as I say you may not care about that right and this is why I always say to people like I don't care what you want I just want you to fucking own it because desire that is suppressed becomes way more problematic than desire that is owned I talked about that last week but it's like and as I always say to people desire owned doesn't necessarily mean act on it but it's like from that place you start to know what to do for like your long-term wellness. Again go back and listen to last week's episode if you haven't already I talk about it in that episode. So what I think these spaces do is they they help women like who actually do want to be in a relationship and actually do want to get married or do want to be spoiled or do want a partner that plans dates and stuff. They provide a space and a container where people can admit that without feeling like they're needy or desperate or asking too much. And I think that is a really really beautiful thing. Now

Where Those Teachings Turn Toxic

SPEAKER_00 46:18

where it gets problematic is oh and one more other thing that I think is really really good about these spaces right rightly or wrongly men and women are conditioned very very differently. What I do think also these spaces can do and some of these teachings can do is they can heal and alchemize and transform a lot of things. The truth is as I say men and women get very very different conditioning. And the truth is we don't live in a world where we can often kind of emit what we actually really desire. It'll often be judge it'll often be pathologized the truth is a lot of people will preach authenticity but then you say hey this is what I want and they'll look down on you right so in these spaces there is a healing there is a transformation there is an alchemy where people can kind of go and women particularly can go hey I want this and there is a transformation that happens in a lot of times in these spaces where because men and women get different conditioning it can lower a man's defenses which I'm not saying is how it should be but it is the reality because men are so conditioned in certain ways so as I spoke about earlier literally on this this episode right Tony was there was always um there was always signs right that he was going to be a man that I could thrive with right but we didn't actually have a dynamic where I could actually thrive we didn't and it was through these teachings through a lot of these teachings that that happened because the way I had my conditioning Tony had his conditioning and this conditioning is the conditioning nearly everybody that I know has and it was creating dynamics where I could not thrive I could not thrive like I would like we would have like really really bad arguments like um and Tony would get like really defensive I would get really defensive because we both had our like set of conditioning right now a lot of the teachings that I learned not all of them some some of the teachings I could never get behind in these spaces right but a lot of the teachings that I learned in these spaces helped me to learn to communicate and speak to Tony in a way that wasn't this um your normal kind of um communication kind of things it was completely different um and what it did is it it opened something up in me but it opened something up in Tony that um it builds like a level of trust and I'll give some examples so one of the things that they teach in these spaces not all of them but is like the power of saying less right and this I want to be very very clear right because this can be problematic but it can also be medicine right there are spaces teaching this and it really pisses me off because really what you're doing is you're silencing women and that I'm never going to be into right but there are some people teaching it and that's not about silencing women it is actually about um it is about knowing your worth and knowing when to you know what I said about energy not pouring into your energy with somebody that again like match my energy somebody that is not listening right and this can change dynamics particularly in long-term relationships when and the caveat to this is you know and two people are willing to to do the work right so one of the things that they might teach in these spaces is you know stop basically um bringing all your stuff to like the basically it's like stop nagging stop complaining stop doing you know stop trying to convince them etc etc etc right I think there's a real danger and there's a real problematic side of that that I will get into in a second right but there is a part of that that if you're in a relationship where there is a potential for you to both thrive right then that will deeply deeply deeply serve you because I see this all the time and you know women are trying to find a million different ways to get for instance their partner to to see their concerns to care to see the invisible labor and stuff they do and the more they bring it up and the more that they talk about it right the more the man will shut down like I'm not making this okay but in a patriarchal society um like men have been taught to like push down the emotions. We all have but like men have it we all have um different conditioning and like you know you know men will literally be like if they show emotions and they get sad and all of that they literally get called a pussy so and they have been taught to just not be as responsible and not be attuned and all of these things right again I'm not making it okay it's not fucking okay but so many men when you bring stuff to them they literally feel like they're being attacked so when you start saying less it's not about you silencing yourself it is not about um you not having a voice it is not about you not being able to you know speak up it is not about suppressing women right it is about um I don't believe we should ever be keep explaining to something to anyone if people aren't taking it on board if they aren't paying attention if they're shutting down like you cannot um reason you cannot like with somebody who is shut down with somebody who is dysregulated um it just doesn't work so actually a lot of times this in these spaces they really teach women to start saying less and to focus more on your own energy and pouring into pouring into yourself you know they teach more around like they call it like feminine magnetism and all of this. Again I think there's some real problematic things with that because it's still really centering men. It's like you become more magnetic babe you just soften you just do this you just do that right and there's some beautiful parts of that but let's be honest it's still like centering it's centering men um and what it's doing is even when they say it's not it's still um yeah it's still like focusing on you just to to get them to to change like it's I I just I'm just not I'm just not into it. Not into it I think it's really I think there's real problems with that okay but I have to say what that did is um I stopped um basically spending so much of my energy trying to get Tony to understand and I started pouring into myself which is what I did in the beginning of our relationship and then Tony started to see that I wasn't just attacking him and then when we did actually speak he started getting it more and lessening because his defenses were down and it broke me out of a pattern um of just basically being stressed and like saying like the things that I was stressed about all the time like it broke dynamics down and it stopped me from that impulse of just wanting to get Tony to understand wanting him to get it wanting him to kind of see things from my point of view and what I say to women is like if if you're with somebody right and they're not seeing your point of view and they're not getting it and you have spoken you have done the work start saying this and start just pouring into

Invisible Labour And Financial Traps

SPEAKER_00 55:04

yourself. And you have to you that's really important and as I say like if somebody doesn't want you to pour into yourself like that is really really telling anyway I could spend ages going into all of that right the bad side of those spaces is it is it doesn't matter how you want to frame it a lot of these things are still deeply deeply deeply centering men and it's a lot of time it is encouraging conditioning and rigid gender um like stereotypes and stuff that is really really problematic like if the foundations were in place and um it could be absolutely beautiful right if it was taught like you know we both have feminine and masculine energies within us and again I don't really like using the term feminine and masculine too much anymore although I did till literally earlier earlier this year um and then just saw too too many things. I saw how the Manos fee were like weaponizing it and saying like men are providers and men are the protectors and actually what we're seeing is that is just not true. That is just not true. Even in the animal kingdom it's always just like don't piss off mama bear it is women women have always been the providers and protectors they always have right look at um who does the most invisible labor who keeps the house running who like it's always women it's nearly always women and somebody's in trouble who's speaking out it is women we see videos all the time and men literally do nothing and it is women. So it is bullshit when men are like oh who's gonna protect you it's it's men doing the violent acts and often they're not doing anything. And what I've seen is too many men like if they pay bills and stuff they hide behind that and then she literally cannot thrive because they come home and they see home is a place to switch off and rest where women are taught the home is a place to contribute and like she never clocks off. She never ever clocks off and even if she is the breadwinner she still ends up doing more and it just doesn't help when we just say to women just I talk again I talk I'm repeating something that I said last week when we tell women just not to do it because that is all good and well if somebody is just starting in a relationship if they're just dating right but if you have got kids and you're already married and you're already in that dynamic it's your kids that will suffer it's your kids that will suffer most women are not going to do that. Why? Because women are providers women are protectors they care about their kids and because so often these men are not competent okay they don't um like they don't they they ain't got it right and what I saw is in this space right they would teach women to just be like trustees got it trustees got it now here's the thing I agree with that right to to an extent right people will never learn if you keep micromanaging and you keep doing all of these things so there is that part of it right but there are women where um you know there is a such thing as like weaponizing competence where these men don't have it they're not gonna do it and she ends up doing more work and there's a real ignorance sometimes in these spaces where she is blamed for that but a woman is not responsible for the stuff that men can't do and then it's always blamed as like if her standards it's just too high and it's just like no no no there needs to be a bare minimum so like if for instance I don't know the partner is taking their kids out um for the day right and let's just let's just normalise that right but say um he takes the kids to the beach right and doesn't have any sun hat and doesn't have any sun cream right and then the children come back with fucking sunstruck like it it's just who's gonna be you know looking after the kids and taking care of them and all of that right and people will be like again they'll blame the woman just like oh well why did she choose such a shit man? Like stop blaming women for this um I also see now and I this one I think is really fucking hideous. So then they turn it around then like oh you know a man providing doesn't mean that he necessarily needs to be a bring the paycheck like you know I see these like six seven figure coaches and stuff and saying like oh we're earning more and all of that right and then um these men aren't really earning any money they aren't doing well financial which by the way there's absolutely nothing fucking wrong with right again let's get rid of rigid gender um stereotypes right it doesn't matter who does what as as long as it works for you right but then what I see is so she's earning all the money right and then she'll be preaching about like you know um just pouring to you right but she's earning all this money right which is not the norm for the average woman right so she can afford um childcare she can afford help around the house and all of these things right and then she doesn't complain at him she never criticizes him she doesn't try to change him so yes he does then plan dates and stuff but then what does she do? She gives him so much appreciation she goes overboard like she's all of these things of course he's fucking happy of course he's fucking happy he's living the life of Riley like of course yes like I think this is worse like not because I think men should have to provide all financially and all of these things but I'm like of course dude's fucking happy and I'm sorry but I do not believe if you weren't listening to him all the time and appreciating him and pouring into and telling everyone how amazing he is like and you didn't have all this money and you didn't have all this thing let's be real dude would not be as interested course he's fucking happy let's stop making out like this dude is some amazing fucking man no dude's got it made like you I I I see these accounts and I'm just like and then they blame the women and be like oh you need to not be a martyr you need to not be this you need to not that and it doesn't apply to most women who do not have who cannot afford a cleaner who do not have a village around them who cannot trust the competence of the person that they are with um but then they're told just appreciate him more um like basically treat him like a child so there was there's this I did this one like feminine course right and it was like a couple of grand and it was like show him how much you appreciate him no don't complain don't try and control him don't do this right is is if framed is if and then it was framed as um doing less emotional labor for women and it's just like okay well that's all emotional labour and as I said I get the point I get the point right appreciating somebody respecting somebody all of these things are beautiful beautiful things like I always want to feel appreciated I always want to appreciate on my husband but appreciating things like him doing the bare minimum and the problem is oh my gosh the world goes fucking crazy because they're like what's not bare minimum he's taking her out on dates and he's doing this yeah but she's the breadwinner she's paying for all of this he gets to look like this big hotshot and be like I'm the protector I'm this I'm that um no you're not no you're not dude like can we just call it for what it is and then they'll be taught things like oh you know men just don't um men just don't think like that they just don't because they've been taught not to right if the feminine and masculine space was addressing actual invisible labour right again I that was another course and it was like the masculine was framed as the awareness right the awareness right but then it but then in the same breath this person was like yeah men do find that too much and they do shut down and you've just got to listen to them more and it's like why are we babying these men you are not a their therapist and then in the same thing they will say it like don't be his therapist don't be this like pour into but you actually are being you actually are being and on a really really like really dangerous level it is perpetuating invisible labor and men doing bare minimum and men you know earning a wage and that that is enough and then they can just clock off and it's also um on a real dangerous thing we're really really encouraging women to just be completely financially reliant on men and then these men don't support them but they do provide a paycheck she ends up giving up her career and then she financially can't leave that relationship right so there's two extremes that I See one where she becomes financially trapped, or the other way where she is the breadwinner, like she's earning lots of money, which there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's fucking amazing. Like, I'm like, babes, go out there if that's something you want to do, earn all the money, do the things, right? But let's not lie to ourselves and make out that a man is amazing when he's lapping it up because you're paying for everything, he doesn't have to do invisible labor because you have um a nanny and you have a cleaner and you have a village, and all he has to do is maybe plan some dates and buy you some flowers. I love all of that shit. Tony buys me flowers and all of that, right? But if that's all your man has to do, and let's be honest, he's enjoys that, that feels good for him, that makes him look good, and we're calling that as like, oh my gosh, he's so fucking amazing. Let's call it for what it is. That is a fucking joke. It is pathetic. Let's stop making out like this is some amazing thing, right? And the reason women think it is, is because we're so used to tolerating such shit that we think a man planning a date, a man doing these things is like oh my gosh, like worthy of. And as I said, I'm not saying don't appreciate those things. I appreciate those things. I will share those things, I share those things to normalize it, right? Not again, not everybody wants that. Like some people don't. I do, but let's stop making out like these men are fucking some super fucking heroes because it's bullshit, it's pathetic. Like, and I know some people aren't gonna like me s saying that, and honestly, I'm I just don't care anymore. Actually, that's a lie. I do care, I do care that um we have been taught really, really, really, really rubbish standards. I do care that, and if it's the other way, that if he is um paying the bills and all of that, right, and and um he is using that as a weapon and kind of thinking it's enough, right? I don't care if you don't earn any money, right? If you are the one who's doing the the majority of the the invisible labor, right, that deserves to also be appreciated. That also deserves to be respected. And until two people can appreciate it, so I'm not saying that don't appreciate it, like if you have that, like I never want to ever take that for granted. Like that doesn't feel good, like it doesn't feel like a beautiful life if you take that for granted because nobody has to do those things, right? My husband does those things, right? He didn't always do those things. He started doing those things because I started owning those, the things that I wanted, right? That's where this the feminine and masculine space really, really helped me. And I never want to not appreciate those things. The same as I don't want to be in a relationship where the things that I do are not appreciated, right? Where they're not respected, right? I want that to go both ways, right? I think of relationships where we don't do that is never going to work, right? But I am so sick of the bullshit. The other thing that I often see in these spaces of like, oh, make sure you give them like physical intimacy, make sure you do this, like make sure you're making time for regular sex and all of that, right? And it's like, again, well, you know, if you've got a man and that's his love language, which for a lot of men it is, it's also a love language for a lot of women, but there's a lot of stigma around that, people can't talk that about as much. I'm like, again, of course he's gonna be like, I've hit the jackpot, like she won't complain at me, she won't quote unquote nag at me, but yet um I'll be given sex, I'll be told to to make sure he is sexually satisfied. Um and all I gotta do is plan a date. Like it's bullcrap, it's bullcrap. Or I'll I'll see other things in like oh he's such an amazing dad, he's doing this with the kids. Um, can we normalize that? He is their dad. He is their dad. I just think it's pathetic, and I just think as women, it's really, really important that we start calling these things out.

A Real Example Of Shared Load

SPEAKER_00 1:11:13

You do deserve a relationship where you can thrive, where you don't have to be remembering everything, where you are not responsible for everything, where you don't feel like if you don't do it, it's all gonna fall apart. Like there are so many things that people just like a shock that I don't do all right, that we need to just normalize because we wouldn't be shocked if it was a woman do doing it, right? I'll I'll give you some examples like my husband does the kids' um uniforms. Eldest doesn't need a uniform anymore. Um, but you know, my son's and I don't have to remind him, I don't have to tell him to do this, like he'll just do it. He will just do it. He used to work away and he would be away all week and then on a weekend he would make sure all the uniforms were done for for the week, right? Um he will go and get the the shopping and he will, you know, like he doesn't need a shopping list, like all of these things, like he does the literally nearly all the cooking in the house. Um he will email schools, like all of these things. Um he will sort out kids' dentist appointments, doctor's appointments, like all of these things. Um and he's he's the breadwinner. It used to be that I was the default for um you know sorting everything out with schools, with appointments, with um my eldest has got autism with her EHCP, like all of these things, right? We didn't always have this dynamic. Um and I was the default for the invisible labour, and it nearly killed our marriage. And every time I tried to say something to people, people just uh basically told me to shut up and didn't realize how basically said you don't realise how lucky you are because your husband, quote unquote, helps. Because Tony from day one has always cleaned and cooked and like done all these things that we should just normalize because they are just life skills, they're not gender skills, they are just life skills, right? Because he did those things and people could see that and could see the execution of those things. What they didn't see is all the cognitive, the mental and the emotional thing that I was holding. Um so, and I didn't see it because it was invisible to me too. I've talked about this so many times, but it's really, really important to talk about these things more. And it got to the point where like I was really burnt out, I was really anxious. Like, I literally, you know, when I talk about the importance of like, but can you actually thrive? Like, I couldn't thrive. Like I couldn't thrive, and it wasn't my fault, it wasn't Tony's fault, it was sus like it was systemic. And what happened in these spaces, there was things that helped, but then there was things that was just blame, it was just like, well, well, you know, this is your fault. You need to stop doing this, you need to stop doing that. And I'm like, okay, but I have an autistic child if I stop doing these things, and my husband doesn't like he literally didn't understand how to do some of these things, not because he's a bad person, not because he wasn't a good man, because he is a good man, but as I say, being a good man isn't enough. It's like, can you thrive? There were consequences, and my eldest child would have really, really suffered. But you don't hear all that nuance in the feminine and masculine spaces. I know so many people that you know have kids and like they're like there are so many struggles at home, and some of these spaces are perpetuating that and just telling women that they should just be lucky and um don't bring it up with your man because if you do, you're emasculating him, which which is bullshit because it's like my femininity isn't so fragile that if somebody brings something up to me like I'm what like I I it it's not so fragile, but women are taught like you can emasculate him that easy, and we need to call that out, and I hear that all the time, you know, in in these spaces like don't emasculate him, don't do this, don't do that. And even when they're saying it's about doing less and all of these things, they're actually perpetuating women doing more invisible labor, you know, for the for a lot of women. As I say, if somebody has a village and they have um lots of money and they have all these external support, it may work. But again, in these same spaces where they teach that, they'll also teach women that if they're not making X amount of money, well, it's their belief system and they didn't manifest correctly and they didn't do this and they didn't do that. So it's always taught as if she's the problem rather than no, this is this is a systemic issue, and look around, right? Speak to enough people. So many people will tell you that they are struggling financially, that the relationship is struggling, that they're anxious, that they're overwhelmed. And what these spaces often do is make out like that you're the problem, that you're doing something wrong. And I think it's just really, really, really important that we call this stuff out.

Keep The Conversation Going

SPEAKER_00 1:17:02

Anyway, if this is a topic that you want me to talk on more, you can scroll down to the show notes, you can text the show, um, tell me if there's anything you want me to go into more. Um, you can also head to my website. Um, all my social media details will be on there. You can drop me a message on social media. If anything that you would like me to cover more, go into more. I was gonna do a separate episode on invisible labor, but I feel like I've covered it a lot in this episode, although I might. Um, maybe I'll get Tony on the podcast at some point. Let me know if you would if you would enjoy that, if you want me to get my husband on, and we can talk about these things. Um, but I do just think this is a conversation that we need to keep going. And if you have enjoyed this, do share it with your friends. Write me a review because it really helps get this scene. And I really think this is an important conversation. And the more we talk about this and the more we get this out, the more things will change. I don't want to just see a bunch of six, seven-figure coaches on Instagram having relationships that people are pedestaling and they can thrive. I want to see every woman who chooses to be in a relationship be in a relationship that they can thrive. I don't want it to just be the 1%. I want every woman, to be fair, I want every man to be able to thrive as well. But particularly, I want women to thrive because women are taught um some really shit standards, and because women are the ones statistically who are much worse off in a marriage. So let's change that. Let's get women who choose to get married to have marriages where they can fucking thrive and where their kids can see examples of um women thriving and truly being loved and adored and respected. Let's get that, let's get that to be the norm. And I cannot do that on my own. I need people to talk about this stuff too. I need people to share this podcast episode. I need you to write reviews if this is something you care about. As I say, give give me um give me a review, um, give me five stars on this podcast, and um, I will be back next week with another podcast episode. I will speak to you next Monday.