Savage Motherhood Seasons, The Mental Load & Emotional Labour

Motherhood can be beautiful and still feel savage. When life is piling on, when support is thin, and when you are expected to carry everyone else’s comfort, the “best job in the world” line stops sounding inspiring and starts sounding like a gag order. I’m Kirsty Dee, and I’m saying the quiet part out loud: lots of mums love their kids and still feel overwhelmed, resentful, and privately ashamed for struggling.

I take you through my own motherhood journey, from pregnancy sickness and not being believed in labour, to the aftermath of pain, feeding pressure, and the constant sense that if anything goes wrong the blame lands on mum. We also talk neurodivergent parenting, school battles, masking, and the long road to an autism diagnosis, plus how years of navigating systems can grind families down. If you have ever questioned your choices, or felt like a “monster” for having hard thoughts, you’re not alone.

Then we get practical with the real culprit behind so much motherhood burnout: the mental load and emotional labour. We name the invisible labour, how it quietly becomes normal, and why “just tell me what to do” is not partnership. I share what has helped me shift it: boundaries, shared responsibility, teaching kids that a household is everyone’s work, and building a village so your time, health and joy matter too. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs it, and leave a review, then tell me: what part of the mental load are you ready to put down?

More from me at KirstyDee.com
Ig @KirstyDeeShares

Facebook - Kirsty Dee

Transcript

Welcome And What We’re Naming

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is the podcast for the women ready to break some rules, for the women who are fed up of pouring into everyone else and not getting what they want. This is where you discover what is true for you and you transform and alchemize the areas of your life that is not doing it for you. Welcome to Truth and Transformation. I'm your host, Kirsty D. Let's go. Hello, hello, hello, lovelies. Today we are going to talk about going through a savage motherhood season. We're going to talk about the mental load and the emotional labour that so often gets defaulted to women, and women are expected to just do all this invisible labor and then just put up with it. Just just just tolerate it. Just accept it. And I don't know a single woman that has managed to escape this. I don't know a single mother that has managed to escape this. I have not. I have seen many women think they've managed to escape it, to then speak to her and see the overwhelm and then be like, ah, you actually are the default for the mental and emotional labor. And that was me too. It wasn't just an accident that I changed that. I first had to address that. And um that's all we're gonna talk about today.

Savage Motherhood Seasons And Silence

SPEAKER_01 1:18

So I have been going through a really, really savage motherhood season, it's been really hard, it's been really brutal. There has been situations that are just outside of my control. And um, if you've never been through a savage motherhood season, like are you even human? You know, I don't know a single mother who who hasn't. And it's something, as I say, I have been going through. So I want to talk about that today. I want to talk about my journey with motherhood because it's through us sharing our stories and hearing other people's stories that things start to change, hence why they don't want women speaking out, hence why they don't want mothers speaking out, because then we can share notes and we can see patterns and be like, ha, this this isn't quite right. This isn't okay. So we're gonna talk about that, and then I'm gonna dive deep into emotional labor and the mental load. So, as I say, I'm gonna take it right back to my motherhood journey from the very, very, very beginning. So I've got an 18-year-old now and I have a 12-year-old, and I'm gonna take you right back. Some of you, if you listen to the podcast before it relaunched, you will have heard this story. But I'm gonna share it for the people that haven't and to hone it in, and then we're gonna dive into emotional and um emotional labor and the the mental load because I really, really want to see us having relationships where we can thrive, and it is not the norm for for women to just kind of just accept that's just just how it is, and ultimately be married to a man child that she has to manage. Like that is not that is not okay. I'm not here for that. So we need to we need to talk about that today. So as I say, I'm gonna go back to the very beginning. So to give you some context, I was like, oh, I don't think I'm gonna have children, I'm not gonna have children, and and all of that, right? And when I said those things, I generally, generally meant meant them. Then I met my husband. Um we made a decision to to have have children before um we were officially married, although we thought we'd be married before we had our first child. I mean, we technically were, but I found out I was pregnant before we got married. So the reason that it that is is relevant is because it kind of shows the conditioning with society and with women that even women that are like, oh, you know, I don't think I'm gonna have kids, can end up having kids, which is is a beautiful thing if that's generally what they want. And I I did want that. I'd like made the conscious decision, like that was that was what I wanted. But looking back on reflection, I see now how that was like programmed into me of like that's what you do, and that's what's gonna you know bring happiness. And I look back now and I just feel if I'm honest, that I was totally duped, totally duped, and I'm not supposed to say that, but I think it's important that women can say that, that they can be like, hey, like I was told that this is the best job in the world, and I've been on my arse so many times. I have been told that wouldn't change it for the world, and it's it's better than you know you can ever imagine, and that has not been my reality, and for so many women, it's not their reality, they they love their kids, but to to honestly say they wouldn't change any parts for the world, I think is not true for so many of us, but we just daren't say it that we don't even admit it to ourselves, and that doesn't mean that they necessarily regret it, but it does mean there are parts that they may they may wish they had known more how it was going to be before they had their children, and there may be elements that they regret and choices that they regret. And if we don't talk about this, nothing, nothing will ever change. And I know for myself there are definitely, definitely, definitely things that I regret. I don't regret having my children, but I have definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely been in seasons where I have thought, fuck, like I don't know if I should have done this. And that is so um taboo to say, it's so frowned upon, it's so looked down on, it makes people so uncomfortable, you're trapped like a monster if you say that. Um, and that is just a really, really clever way to silence women. The same as the language around it being the best job in the world, I think that the saying that motherhood is like the best job in the world is one of the most insidious and dangerous sayings there is. Because if you look around collectively and you've got all these mothers and they're overwhelmed and they're stressed, and they will admit they're finding things really, really hard and they're having a really hard time of it, but you're preaching it's the best job in the world. What it does is it creates shame, and then mothers aren't going to speak about it, they're gonna feel like they have failed, they're gonna feel like there's something wrong with them. And who benefits from that being programmed as the thing? Like patriarchy benefits from that. It benefits from making mothers feel like they there's something wrong with them if they're not like loving it all the time, if you know it like they have days where it doesn't feel worth it. Um all of that. It's it's I just think it is one of the most dangerous sayings. And I have said those things in the past, and when I said those things, you know, I meant them. And though sometimes that may be, if I was really honest, like that might not be what I was feeling. But like I'd had to convince myself that that that this was the best. And I don't know about you, but I don't think the best job in the world should leave a an epidemic of women, of mothers on their ass, struggling, um, really like you know, financially vulnerable, they're constantly overwhelmed, they're constantly stressed, and then you know have to be like, but it's all worth it, wouldn't change it for the world, best job ever. I think that is how we train people and how we train women to actually not talk about the realities of motherhood. If we make it something really shameful to say, oh my gosh, I'm really struggling. This does not feel like the best job ever. I may love my kids, and that is why it's so hard, because we love our kids.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

And this is really, really fucking hard. This is really fucking hard.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

And like nobody's told me it was gonna be this hard, or they did, but they said, but it will be worth it. They didn't say you wouldn't you won't have a village, it will be almost impossible to take care of children and run a household and build a career. Like they didn't they didn't tell you that. Like that that that was kept out of it. And and that is the reality. Like, most women are not the exception to the rule, they are the rule that becoming a mother means they are penalized in so many ways, and whilst it is not the reality for every mother, it is for lots of mothers, and we are not talking about that enough. We minimize it because it is such a shameful thing to to say, it is such a taboo thing to say, to say, hey, I I'm really struggling with this. I feel I was stuped, right? That is not something that mothers can can say, and if they do say, they will be blamed because they'll be like, Well, you chose to have kids. You you had kids. So mothers often can't speak out, and if they talk about say the mental lord, if they talk about emotional labor, again, they're they're blamed for it. You know, well, well, why why are you doing it all? Why why are you overfunctioning? Why didn't you choose a better a better partner? Why why are you nagging? Oh my gosh, you've got a partner, and that that your partner actually actually does things. You should consider yourself lucky. We shut women down all the time, we minimize the work that women do all the time. And then as I say it, if she says about it, it's well, why did why did you have kids? Why did you have kids? Even though she has been sold to have kids, she has been told this is this is what you do, this is what's gonna make you feel the most happiest, the most fulfilled, this is this is what you're gonna feel most in your purpose, this is going to be the best job in the world, even when it's hard, it's all gonna be worth it. And you you you you just wouldn't want to change it for the world. Really? We wouldn't want to change for the world women chronically overwhelmed, stressed, drowning in emotional labour and the mental lord. Because I would like to change that. I would like to change that. I would like to see mothers not drowning in in the mental lord, not drowning in emotional labour. I would like to see mothers being financially supported. I there's lots of things that I would that I would change. Lots and lots and lots of things. And we cannot create that reality if we don't see these things, if we don't talk about it. So I will say I do not think motherhood is the best job in the world. I do not think we should be saying, but it's all worth it. No, I think we should be saying, hey, this is not okay, this is not cool. They are constantly telling women, like selling this dream, that this this fairy tale that you have kids and you're gonna feel completed and you're going to, and it's gonna all feel worth it. Rather than you may have those seasons, you may, you may, but if you do, there'll be some things that you may not even be aware of that on your side that not every woman has, not every woman has, and even with that, there will be seasons that you will probably get your ass kicked, and we need to support women, we need to support mothers in those seasons, but we don't, we leave mothers high and dry. We say things like, Well, she chose to have kids, or or she chose to have more than one child. Um, but yet this is what we tell tell women to do. And the reason that I share that is because as I said, like I was somebody I was like, oh, I'm not gonna have kids. And then what happened when I met my husband, I was just like, oh my gosh, I think I should have a baby. Like he never pressurized me, he never like sent him. It was actually my idea, which is insane. And I look back now and I know, I know, and as much as I don't regret it, I know it's because I was programmed that that was the thing to make me happy. Like I didn't have the awareness, I had no idea what I was letting myself in for. And there has been times that I have been like, oh my gosh, like I I don't think I should have done this. And the times when I felt like that I couldn't say about it, and the few times that I did, oh my gosh, as I say, I was treat like a fucking monster. And it's you were I don't know who needs to hear this, but you are not a monster if you've ever felt that way, or if you currently feel that way. Or if right now you're struggling to like your kids, or like if you're questioning your life choices. And I am so sick of like just this narrative, and I find anybody that says this, even if they don't mean any harm by it, I just think those sayings are really, really dangerous. I think they're really, really problematic, and I think like we've got to, we've got to stop, we've got to stop saying these things, because as I say, nothing will change. So as I said, I'm going to go back from the very beginning.

From ‘No Kids’ To Pregnancy

SPEAKER_01 15:06

So as I said, I was like not planning on having children and all of that, then very quickly was like, oh, let's have a baby. You know. Um, so and that piece matters to put it into context because I wasn't like I wasn't somebody that from young had been like, oh, I should just, you know, I should have kids and I should have that, where where some women are. And you know, for some women, it absolutely, you know, is the the best job in the world and and and all of that. And I love that for them, but for so many women, it isn't. It isn't. And we need to talk about that. And for so many women who always wanted it, they also struggle, and they're really shocked by that because they have been basically programmed this fairy tale from from day one, and we just need to stop selling women on this fairy tale of marriage and kids because so many women, particularly women who are married and who have kids, are struggling. Women who are married and have kids are often the most unhappy. So we have to talk about this. And it doesn't matter how much of a badass this this woman is, because again, that's the narrative of, well, you know, she must just be not very, you know, like somewhere she'll be blamed. Well, you know, as I say, she's she she's chose wrong. All the things we said, like as if like I don't know, she hasn't got the you know, the bad arsery in her to be like, hey, like no, like I know lots of women that are total, total bad asses, and I think all women are badasses. Let's just just say all women are badasses, but you know what I'm saying, and they've still ended up in this position. They're not pushovers by any means, and yet they still ended up in this position where they still ended up drowning in the mental lord, they still ended up taking on a disproportionate amount of emotional labor, and we have to stop blaming women for that because it's in the the fabric of society, it's in the um the psyche, like that that is the norm, it is not um, it is not the the minority, and like that is what needs to change, that is what needs to shift. So, as I say, I was like, okay, you know, let's you know, let's have a baby. And again, this is something that I have to be mindful about saying because it upsets, it upsets people, and again, then you can't speak out about it because you're like, well, you're lucky, you're privileged. Lots of people would be, would die to be in that situation. But again, if we can't if we silence women and they can't speak out about it, nothing, nothing will change. So decided to have have a child, and I fell pregnant really, really quickly. And as I said, that is something that you know, because so many women don't have that reality and really, really struggle, it can be distressing when people hear me say, we fell pregnant, like like straight away. So, but because I was told it could take a long time, because it does for many, many women, I wasn't mentally prepared, like I was very young, and I don't regret having my children young. I'm glad on reflection that that I did, um, because that's what's worked for me. And some, you know, like I don't think think it it it matters, you just whatever tan you're dealt with, like you you you get you get on with it, but I'm personally pleased that I had children later because I'm now 40 and we're not having any more children, and I've got an 18-year-old and a 12-year-old, so it's like I still feel very, very young, and like my kids are like obviously much older and much more independent, and so for me, like I'm really, really glad that I did that. The reason that I say all this and the reason that's all relevant is because as soon as I fell pregnant, I had a hard time. I have had a hard time in motherhood since since I fell pregnant. It has never ever ever been an easy path for me. I have had seasons, but I've always had a really, really hard time. Always had a really really hard time. And for a lot of mothers, this is just the reality. And because other mothers, it's not that not saying that they don't have a hard time, but that isn't their reality, and so they are pedestaled and they are like almost become the the poster, you know, the poster people for um promoting motherhood is the best job in the world, and that is really dangerous, and that is really, really problematic because there are just so many of us where that is not the reality, and then as I say, when you struggle, you're ashamed, you're trapped like a monster, you are silenced rather than supported, you are trapped like you're somehow being a victim, you're being a martyr, you're all of these things, and I just think it's really, really important that we talk about that. So I'll tell you what happened. From literally the moment I fell pregnant, I was ill. I had a pregnancy where I had really horrendous sickness. Um, as a as I said, like we um thought it was gonna take take a while and it didn't, so we weren't actually um you know married before I fell pregnant. I found out two weeks before we were due to be married that I I was pregnant. I didn't realize I was pregnant at first, I just thought I was having the world's worst hangover because obviously I'd had a hen party, not knowing and I was drinking, not knowing that you know I I was pregnant, otherwise I wouldn't have wouldn't have, you know, be drinking and all of that. Found out I I was pregnant, and that was why I was feeling so rough, and that continued pretty much. much all out all throughout my pregnancy. Um it was just as I said I had a really rough time. We um were got married in in Canada and um it was it was just it was just like the the wedding itself the ceremony itself was absolutely beautiful but it wasn't the wedding that I was expecting to have because I was like really rough um we actually got married um in like in in in the snow and um actually I was like not actually like that cold. I mean there was periods where I was cold even though it was like absolutely freezing because I was pregnant and I was hot and I was like sweating and like all all of these things. So we got married because it was so cold you have to get married like really really early before the temperature drops and we pretty much got married and like took some photos and all of these things and then like we crashed out in my room because um in our room because I was like so so ill and then we planned to come back to the UK and um basically we knew our vowels in in front of everybody that didn't happen because I was so ill I ended up in hospital so I missed my own vowel renewal um people had thought that I'd like left honey already because I didn't make it um but I was in hospital um and I just had a really really hard time and then um when you know as you go to your classes to prepare you for labour and all of that I remember saying to them you know what if what if baby comes early and when I say early I don't mean like premature early but I mean before before my due day because intuitively I just felt like that was going to happen for me. And they're like oh child child that that won't happen. And surprise surprise it did happen. I just intuitively knew it was going to happen. And I also said oh and they were saying you know like first baby can take a really really long time and labour can be a really really long time and again we need to talk about those things because a lot of women that does happen for and they're in labor for an obscene amount of time and I cannot imagine how horrendous that must be but I again intuitively was like I don't think that's gonna be me. I think it's gonna be really really fast. So again I was like oh what happens if that's not the case? What happens if baby comes really quick? And they laughed at me they was like it's your first baby it's not going to be quick it's gonna be take ages surprise surprise that's not wasn't my reality my first child came really quick my second child came even quicker. And I intuitively knew that would be my reality and when I went into labor and the reason I'm telling you all this is to build up a story of the things that like some women go through but then they can't talk about it because they're like well some women can't even have children some women would give everything to have children some women were in labor for days on end you were lucky you you this it happened quickly and then what happens is those women get silenced and then they all those things add on top of each other it causes just like traumas and like all of these things and it never gets dealt with and then of course they're not going to enjoy motherhood of course they're going to struggle so everybody will have a different kind of story will have a different version of how this looks but I I don't know a mother yet who hasn't got some stories of like a savage season and for for some mothers you know that is pretty much like they that that almost becomes their norm because they're never supported in you know in that so that they can have any other reality and this is why I say I I just think so many women are like duped and then they and they cannot say about it. They cannot um they cannot talk about it. And that's why I really just wanted to do this episode. I really wanted to do this episode because I think we just we need to talk about that. So as I say my first child came really quickly my second child came really quickly but that that was fine because I was mentally prepared for that second time around and second time around they did listen to me and they were like there's a good chance given your first birth your second birth will be really quick too and it was second time around completely different experience because I was mentally prepared for that and um end up having a really beautiful home birth right and and that's the point like we must lessen to women so that we can learn hence this conversation but my first child as I say um came early not premature early but earlier than what they were earlier than what they were expecting.

Birth Trauma And Early Motherhood

SPEAKER_01 27:27

So they'd already put me slightly earlier on my due date and then my first child I think came was like 12 days early and anyway when I was in labor um I wasn't believed that I was in labor. I basically said I was like I really think I'm in labor and you know we we rang them up we rang the like maternity ward and all of that and they basically made fun and they were like if you're in labour you would know about it. And I was like no no I really think I'm in labor and they weren't interested and I was mocked and like made fun of um and eventually they they agreed to come out and um you know they checked me over and then they were like oh yes you actually are in labour but it's going to be ages and I was like I really don't think it's going to be like I I I think this child is going to come really quickly and they roll their eyes and they weren't very happy about it and I was like it was my first child and I was really frightened and I wanted to be in hospital which looking back now I don't know why because my home birth experience was much much much um much nicer much nicer but I did um so they reluctantly was like okay you can come into hospital and all of that um and I was telling them that I was in pain and all of that and it was not taken seriously and um they were like oh you know we'll we'll run the the birthing pool to give you some pain relief and and all of that um but they just weren't taking me seriously at all. I was tread like I was just being um hysterical and making a big deal out of nothing and just needed to needed to get on with it and um so thankfully the birthing pool was being filled up because if you know a birthing pool takes a very very long time to to to to fill up it's not like a five minute thing you know I think it can take about 50 minutes um because you know they have to be there has to be a lot of water in the in the birthing pool um so that was that anyway I was just like oh fuck and and the midwives just kept kept leaving me even though I was like this baby's this baby's coming so it was like me and my husband in in hospital and then I was just like fuck this baby's coming so and I said to my husband I was like I need to go to the toilet I need to go to the toilet right now and the reason this is this this is relevant is because they wouldn't listen to me they had left me um even though I said this baby's coming and this baby's coming soon and I'm in a lot of pain um they wouldn't do anything they wouldn't offer me any pain relief like I was just try as if I was being dramatic um and so like my husband gets me and gets me onto the the toilet and um baby's head starts starts crowning and I said to my husband's like this baby's coming now and he's like what and I'm like baby's coming and he's like fuck so he has to run out and leave me and get a midwife midwife is like pissed because she's eating and all of that and she's like rolling her eyes and he's like baby's coming and she doesn't believe him and she's just like oh this woman being really dramatic. Anyway she comes and then she's like shit this baby's coming and it's about to be born down the fucking toilet um because I can't I can't move like baby's crowning and like all of the things anyway luckily the birthing pool is you know pretty pretty much pretty much pretty much done so um she slams the emergency button they they lift me I'm getting emotional talking about it drop me into the birthing pool my first child comes out literally punches per wear pretty much through um my vagina and um that was a pain like no other comes out born on on under the water in the birthing pool like literally like winks at me like like a full-on wink and I'm like am I going um like am I like just seeing things at this point I have to actually ask my husband about this and he was like no no you know like that that literally happened it was like some fucking alien kind of like so basically her head her body was still in me but her head was out and like winked and like looked at me. It was a freakest motherfucking thing. As I say I thought it was like hallucinating or something and it was almost like I saw came into the world and like winked at me and was just like ha you ready for what like what I'm gonna bring to you um and I was not ready by any means um totally like broke my vagina um and um and the reason that I share that is because I really believe had they listened to me because she like literally like as I say her head was out and like she brought her arm out and like punched her way out I think it would have been a different reality and I ended up needing like lots of um stitches and then they like did a really terrible botch job with the stitches um and um the stitches were even more painful than the actual delivery um and I basically went into shock it was horrendous and I was in North to um do skin to skin contact with my child so they had to go off to Tony which you know is absolutely fine but it's not what I wanted and it just caused um so much pain and so much distress for me. And then my child um you know like everything was difficult so the feeding was difficult they were sick all the time um and it it wasn't picked up for a while but they had colic um they had a problem with their shoulder that wasn't picked up for a while where they had like got their arm and like punched their way out of my um vagina they also had tongue tie like all of these things so my child didn't sleep cried all the time and it was it was a shitsha and I went through hell and um every part of it I was blamed you're not feeding your your child enough you're not doing this enough you're not doing that enough and um as you can imagine it left me um in a very just in a very dark place that I didn't really tell people about because I felt so much shame about because people told me like it's the best job in the world and I should know what I'm doing and this should be all natural and um I didn't get on with the breastfeeding as as as as I said like like my booze were literally black and blue because my child had tongue tie um because they had this problem with their shoulder that they weren't aware of at first or like they couldn't turn certain ways and because they were sick all the time and they had colic so they weren't putting on weight and because my child wasn't putting on weight I got I got blamed for that um and I got you know told that breastfeeding was the best thing and then then you know I was basically told that was a failure for not being able to breastfeed and to put my child on a bottle and then I was really devastated about that and I just want to make this very clear I don't think it matters like fed as best not whether a child is breastfed or bottle fed but I was indoctrinated to believe that if I didn't breastfeed and I couldn't breastfeed that I had failed. So then one um I had to stop breastfeeding um so I was like peer pressured to to breastfeed that that was like the best thing in the world but then I was all then peer pressured to stop because I was told that I was like failing my child and I didn't want to stop um but um I was basically told that I needed to stop and also I physically couldn't keep going because I was in pain so I felt like an absolute failure. And um so then my child went on on a bottle and actually they still didn't gain much weight and then they finally decided no that I wasn't the the the problem it wasn't my milk that was the problem it was because my child had colic and I had been um kept getting blamed um all this time for my child not putting on weight um and it was just it was just it was just it was just horrendous and um you know we would go through seasons where you know things were okay and things were better um but like things would just keep coming around and just keep being hard.

School Struggles And Autism Advocacy

SPEAKER_01 36:46

So for instance when my child started preschool they had a really really difficult time they didn't settle um they would just cry all the time when they started school again the same thing it was it was horrendous and this would go on and on and off for pretty much the the whole of of their school life um and then like I'm gonna cut it to like covert times and like you know things getting locked down and then when my child had to to go back into the school system they just didn't just didn't cope. And there was one um so my child as I said didn't didn't cope and there was um a period where we'd moved them them school because it wasn't their local school and they weren't getting on and they went to another school for for a little bit um we planned not to move them school but we ended up having to move them school because we ended up um basically where we were living at the time where we were renting the landlords decided to sell up so we had no choice but to move and we couldn't get anything in the area so we had to move completely out of the area so it meant they had to go to another school. The reason that is relevant that that one school was the first school that picked up on they were like hey we think your child could be autistic um and then we went to the next school and nothing nothing got said and that was the the one school where they actually got on better but the issue was with them getting on better really what was happening is they were masking so then the fact that they were autistic didn't get picked up then we went into lockdown and all of these things and they didn't cope um and then it became and as they got older and they became a teenager and hormones kicked in what often happens if a child is autistic or ADHD it can no longer it no longer be be hidden. And then I had to go on a long battle to basically advocate for them to be finally literally they're about to to leave school when they finally got diagnosed and I was like oh my gosh your child is has got autism we're really really sorry you have struggled all all this time and your parenting has has been blamed and you have been left high and dry without any support um we're you know basically the the person that you know um went through the whole process with me she was absolutely lovely and she was like I'm really sorry and she was like and all the struggles that you went through she was like they're actually quite common um not that this is the case for every autistic child but they often um there often is a pattern from um very very very young um you know a child doesn't settle you know in preschool and in school and they maybe don't sleep well and they maybe cry a lot like all of these things um that I had been blamed for like my motherhood had been blamed throughout and here's the thing because I was also having a hard time I would blame myself because then of course you're exhausted you're tired so like my parenting wasn't always the best like I would snap I would struggle um we're now pretty sure to be honest that um that I am neurodivergent myself because neurodivergency runs runs in families and when they did the assessment and they went through all the things like me and my husband were kind of laughing and been like ah wonder where that comes from and I was also the same. I I struggled in school like I struggled with friendships I like I I struggled with all of these things um and often you know like it doesn't get diagnosed in you know in girls so that that was the whole thing and the reason that I share that is whilst that is not every mother's story there are so many of us out here that um have some story of struggle of not being supported of really um being dismissed of being blamed you know mothers who are out there who are just doing just doing their best and all of these things just led to a lot of things that were outside of my control so I've you know like I've mentioned this qu quite quite a lot because it's important but like for instance in 2022 my child went um you know through a trauma and stuff that just brought us all on to to our knees it was again a really hard season which I really believe had um things been picked up earlier and you know like that wouldn't have happened and um I will never know for a fact but I also think so we have been going through as as a family like another um just did another like hard thing in in um in in our home as a family and again um again there's no way of ever knowing but I do think again if things had been different if we had been more supported as a family what we're navigating through right now that I'm not gonna talk about because it's it's my family and you know it's not just just just about me. But I

Anger, Grief And Motherhood Alchemy

SPEAKER_01 42:41

don't think we'd be going through it and in all honesty it's been it's been really hard it's been really brutal I know we will work it out I know we'll get on the other side of it like I'll make fucking lemonade out of it when life gives you lemons like I always make fucking lemonade but that doesn't make it easy and I don't want to glamorise any of that and it's honestly felt really fucking really savage and um it's led to me feeling very angry very rageful very um bitter very resentful about certain things and when women feel that way and when mothers feel that way they often can't talk about it. They often can't talk about it because that is treated as the offense itself rather than the shit shore that the person has actually been through and I kept trying to and this is like where the alchemy happened for me I kept trying to love motherhood and to fall in love with motherhood and like all of these things and I can remember actually doing a podcast episode saying that you know like to my friend like I'm gonna become one of these mothers who falls in love with it like don't hate me when I do and um I failed epic At that, because I kept trying to be that, and actually, the motherhood alchemy for me has come when I actually said to myself, I was like, oh my gosh, this is not fun. This this is fucking hard. This is fucking terrible. And what am I gonna do about it? When I stopped trying to to make something that really felt like a lie, the best job in the world. When I stopped trying to to convince myself it felt like the best job in the world, and I actually said, you know what, like this feels fucking terrible at times. And oh my gosh, this like motherhood like is so hard, and I love my kids, but they are doing my fucking head in. And when I suddenly started saying those things to myself, and I stopped trying to be a woman or a mother that was just like, oh my gosh, this is amazing, and I love it. And I was like, no, I don't love it. I think it's fucking terrible. I think it's terrible, and that does not mean I just want to make this very clear, that does not mean that um I I regret it. And it's also okay if you're listening to this and you're like, I kind of regret it, Kirsty, because I have definitely been there. I've definitely been there. I don't feel like that now. I don't feel like that now. Um, I wouldn't change it for the world now. I'm gonna say that that that's saying that that that I hate, as in there's lots of things that I would change, but if I could go back, like I I wouldn't not do this lifetime. In a different lifetime, I think I'd probably make a different choice. But I know I wouldn't be who I am, and I wouldn't have the awareness, and I wouldn't be able to do this podcast, and I wouldn't be able to help the women in the way that I can had I not been through these things. But now, because I've been through these things, I can see things in a way that I might have judged before. I might have been one of these mothers that was just shaming other mothers and being like, What are you on about? This is the best job in the world. Because I would be too ignorant to see um that we have not been dealt the same hand. We've not been dealt the same hand. And through being dealt um a rough hand, and also you know, acknowledging that some people do have it a lot, a lot harder. But I think it's also important that that's the one of the ways that patriarchy works to silence women because they're like, Well, I know the people have it well, so they don't speak about it, whilst also not invalidating that this has been so fucking brutal for me so many times. And um, and when I finally was able to just um laugh about it, not because it's funny, but just more this like awakening of being like, oh, like oh, this is just not the best job in the world. It is just not. I like I don't think that. I don't think that at all. And I I I feel like there'll be women out there that me saying that to for some women it's gonna make uncomfortable, some people it's gonna make uncomfortable because again, you're not supposed to say about this, but for some people it's gonna be like medicine that I'm saying, like, no, I I don't think this motherhood thing's great, I think it's fucking terrible. And also, I think we can create beauty. I think if we're going through hard seasons, we can make lemonade because like what else are we gonna do? And I don't profess to say that that is easy. Like, I have um managed to create lemonade out of these seasons time and time and time again, but I do not want to glamorize that. I have done that, and at times it's like nearly fucking killed me doing that, but I'm a fucking stubborn, determined bitch, and I was like, I am not going down like this, I'm not going down like this. One for me, but also for my kids, because I don't want that to be their story. So um, but they the real shift, as I say, has came for me recently when I was when I just started saying to myself, like, you know what, this this is just no, um gosh, love these kids, but they're doing my fucking head end, and this is hard and this is brutal, and uh, this motherhood thing can be fucking terrible at times. Um that's when the shift came for me. Not when I was trying to convince myself, best job in the world, totally always worth it. Sometimes, like it doesn't, it doesn't feel like that, and that is that is okay. And that's when the shift came came for me. And

Mental Load And Emotional Labour Unpacked

SPEAKER_01 49:02

I now want to talk about because this is another part of it, the mental load and the emotional, emotional load. So because this is what makes it so hard, right? Because on top of like all those other things that you might not be able to control women mothers end up the default often for the mental load and um the emotional labor, and that is just um normalized, just just expected, and um it it is like killing us, it is it is it is harmful, and for me, as I said, like I didn't get away from that, and it's not like I had um an awful, shitty, abusive husband, quite the opposite, and I still didn't get away from that, and I still end up with the default, not because I was stupid, not because I was naive, not because I'm a woman who lets people walk all over me, not because my husband's an arsehole, because these things are not because my husband didn't care, these things are so grained in society, they can happen so subtly and so invisibly, we don't even realize how how we got there. And this is the setup for most women. So, going through all those experiences, like obviously, your husband can't carry the child, he can't do the the the breastfeeding, like all of these things. Um, he's not the one being blamed for um my child not putting on weight and all of these things. So, what happens is women start blaming themselves, they start, you know, taking on these things, these things that are mostly um invisible. Um, you know, like often the dynamic is that you know the man will be off for a little bit, then he'll go back to work. So, of course, the the woman, you know, ends up taking on so much load at home and becoming more aware of certain things and kind of more tune. And before you know it, you've got a dynamic through, often through no fault of anybody's, where she ends up becoming the default for the mental load and the emotional labor. So something, and this was my reality, and as I say, it's not my reality now, and that's hence why I want to talk about it. But something that I keep saying, and like I'll say again and again and again, is so I don't care if you've got a decent partner, if you've got a good man, if you've like got a quote-unquote good husband, right? Because like it doesn't take a lot for a man to be called that, right? I care if you're with a man that you can thrive with. That's what I always say to people. I care if you have to remind your partner all the time to to do things. I care about that job that needs doing in the house, like how many times have you had to mention it? I care if your partner is also um problem solving, is also can you know, like do things without being reminded, without needing um a list. They're the things that that I care about. Because if there's one person holding the kind of mental load and doing the emotional labor, um that person is going to really, really struggle. They're going to really struggle. And somebody working and providing a paycheck while the other person, you know, is the default for all of those things, like a paycheck doesn't make that okay. And somebody, you know, doing things around the house and actually fucking parenting doesn't make it okay for the other person to end up the default and carrying a disproportionate amount of invisible labour. Like there is nothing cool about that situation. It is a recipe for disaster, it is a recipe for a woman to become burnt out. It is not good, like nobody wins in that is the recipe for um resentment, for her to feel bitter and then to feel and then to be blamed for that. And we have to talk about it. So I've actually because I know I will forget, so you might hear me rustling some paper. I've actually got a list of and this is this list doesn't even not even include everything, but this this list, you know, contains a lot of it, right? I'm actually gonna write, like I'm actually gonna basically bullet point like the mental the mental load because so many women are like, oh no, no, that doesn't apply to me. And then when I start going through these things, they're like, oh, oh yeah, that's me. That's me, right? And even if it's not, even if it's not, even if you are the exception to the rule of this, like, until this is the norm for all women, nothing will change, generational trauma will continue, and like none of us are going to win from that. None of us are going to win from that. Um, so we don't need to be pedestaling like women who are not in this scenario. We need to be normalizing that and making it so that is the reality for every woman, so that everybody can thrive, so that all families can thrive, so that you know, mothers and fathers can thrive, so children can thrive, so families can thrive. Because this isn't something where I'm like, oh, I just want women to thrive. No, I want everybody to thrive. But what we know, what we know is when women are doing better, the collective does better. It just does. So we start with women, because women are the ones that are the default for these things. So we start there because that is not okay, that is not cool, and because it's the it's the only way for everybody to start being able to thrive. So as I say, I've got a list of um the mental lord, and I want you to just like be honest with yourself. Like, does this does this apply to me? And if you are fortunate that um it doesn't apply to you, it's like how can we um you know like make that become more of the norm rather than you know looking down on other women who don't have that when they were given a different different um different kind of life gave them a different set of what's the word I'm looking for? Um keys. That's probably not the right the right turn of phrase, but but you get what you get what I'm saying. Life dealt them a different set of cards. That's that's that's the phrase that I'm looking for. Okay. So women often get defaulted to being the the default for the mental lord. So this is the thinking, the planning, the anticipating, the refilling, the the checking, the tracking, the holding being the emergency contact. Like this is something that is disproportionately on women, disproportionately on mothers, the the problem solving. So we know disproportionately, um, a mother will be the one tracking everything, you know, anticipating that the child's needs, being the emergency contact, being like, you know, something goes wrong, she's gonna be the one that they're going to call. Like she's like all of these things, she's going to be the one kind of going, you know, this this is what we need in in the household, you know, the the shoes are getting too small, etc. etc. etc. This is going to be on her. She's also usually the default for the emotional labor, too. So what does that look like? This looks like caretaking, this looks like soothing, this looks like um, you know, becoming almost like the therapist, the the regulator, the the peacekeeper of the household. This is this is the one that, you know, will be like checking in on everybody else's moods before, before before she brings something, really looking at how best to communicate something. It is basically caretaking everybody else's feelings, everybody else's emotions, everybody else's well-being. Making sure, like women we know are often like tone police. They're often told, um, oh, you didn't say it nice enough, you didn't smile enough, you you nag too much, you complain too much, like all of these things. She's often expected to change her tone, to change the timing when she addresses things, to work on her communication, um, like all of these things to do the emotional labour of all of that, because if she, heaven forbid, she says something a little bit narky because she's carrying so much of the mental load, but heaven forbid she does, and she doesn't say it nicely enough because then she's a nag, then she's on one. So women often carry so much emotional labour in in a relationship that kills relationships, that is exhausting, and it gets to the point where she will lose respect, she will lose trust. Because if you're the one problem solving, anticipating problems in advance, and then um, you know, tracking everything. And if you don't do that, you get you get blamed for not doing that. Society will always blame the mother if something goes wrong, but then you do that and you're called nagging, controlling, you're told um it's never good enough, it's never good enough for you. Um, when women finally have enough, they'll be like, Oh my gosh, I don't know what happened, the divorce came out of nowhere, and it never came out of nowhere. Women who are thriving, women who are happy in relationships, they don't just walk away. They don't they don't women who end up um doing a disproportionate amount of emotional labor, trying to find a way to get their partners to get it, they're the ones that have enough and go, I am out. The women that are doing a disproportionate amount of the mental load, of the thinking, of the anticipating, of the tracking, of the refilling, of the checking, the women that have to give their husbands a fucking goddamn list and remind them to do things, they're the women that go, fuck this. I'm not raising another child. I'm already raising kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

I'm I am not also going to raise my husband. I'm I'm I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

I'm also taking care of things at home, I'm all I'm not gonna clean up after him as well. Because what we know is women who are married often end up doing more housework and things than women who are not, because they end up cleaning up after their husband. And when I say that, some people clack back when they're like, no, but like that's not my husband, like I'm actually messier, okay. But the pattern is that's not the reality for most women, and and then they'll be blamed for it rather than um you know, a man be told, okay, you need to step up, you need to do these things. And even if, even if he is doing domestic labor, can we just frigging normalize that? Even if he is the tidier one, he usually is not taking on the mental lord that she is. Most of the time when you speak to these, and they they don't know any what their kids are like up to at school. They they they aren't researching, they aren't looking into developmental needs, they aren't. They aren't prioritizing her feelings, her well-being. They often weaponize that they they earn more money, even though their career has advanced because she has been the emergency contact, because she has subsidized his career, because she's took on the mental load, like she is carrying all the things at home. But that's all invisible, that is all minimized, that's all made out like it's not fucking hard work. Because if you minimize it and you make out like it's no big deal, and you make it invisible and you weaponize that, you never have to value it. And you never have to value her. You can just tell yourself a story that she's controlling, that she's being um nagging, that she's on one, it must be time of the month, it must be her hormones. Because if you do that, then you never actually have to listen to her. If you can constantly police her and be like, oh, you didn't say it very nicely, and you didn't say it very politely, and oh, you seem to have an attitude and like all of these things. Or if you can instead just kind of go, Well, well, I am a good guy, and and and you know, if you just tell me what to do, I will do it. That is that is bullshit because then you are still outsourcing her brain. You are not taking responsibility to go. I actually should not need her to tell me what needs to be done. I should know what needs to be done, because this is just basic adulting, this is just basic bringing up a child. I should know what the the bare minimum standard is so that I am not weaponizing and just going, well, you're just better at it than I am, or you like it done a certain way, or your standards are too high.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:53

That is bullshit. That is bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:57

And I am sick of this being weaponized on women of like she's just controlling, she's just nagging, um, she's just worrying too much. Um, whilst he does not worry enough, whilst she brings it all together and makes sure the children have what they need, whether it's um for school, whether it's making sure they've got their doctor's appointments or whatever it is, making sure at Christmas and birthdays they actually have things that they want and that it's actually special. You know, the um we we see jokes all the time around men who don't even know what their kids are getting for Christmas, and like and it's not fucking funny. And we've normalized laughing about these things, and it's just not okay. We have normalized women running around doing all of these things and then just telling women, well, just don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

Just don't do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

And that is that is messed up because often these things have to be done, and even if they don't have to be done, sometimes she would like to be able to do these things. So taking that away from her, and I don't mean like the the mental load and all of that, I mean as in she would like the opportunity to make these things special, and she should be able to do that, and she would be able to do that if she wasn't carrying everything else. It but we often don't care about that. We often don't care about well, what does she want? What makes it special? Like we just keep blaming women rather than go, well what would you like? What would you like uh raising of the children to look like? What would you like um you know home life to look like? What would you like your career to look like? And so often um those conversations are not hard, and she's just expected to just put up with whatever role she's in, and that is not cool. It is not cool that often her time is not seen as important. I used to run long, long, long, long, long time ago, right? But I used to run um a fitness business for women, women only. Um I ended it like, as I said, a long time ago. It was like nearly 12 years ago now, right? And at the time I didn't know what was going on because I didn't have language for invisible labor, for mental load, um, for for emotional labor, right? But these women, these women would come to my fitness classes and they loved it. It was it was time, it was time for them. And what kept happening is their husbands would decide that they wanted to do something on the same night. So whether it was like play football, take extra hours at work and stuff, and she would always have to give it up. It was never like, hey, but she loves this and this is really important. No, she was always the default, she was always the one who had to give up something that she loved because he decided that he was starting this hobby and it would be on the same night, and that would become more important, and it'd be like, Oh, but he loves it. And it's like, okay, but you love this thing too. And she was like, Yeah, but it's the kids and it's my husband. Like, and that was just normalized. It would be normalized for her to give up something that that she wanted. There was never this like third door of like, okay, well, you're already doing this, and I know you love it. I want to do this thing. Okay, I'm gonna sort the logistics out. I'm gonna see if I can do this thing on a on a different night. I'm gonna see if I can sort out childcare, like all of these things, it was always just expected that she would give it up. And like so many people will clap back and be like, well, she didn't have to do that. Well, okay, sometimes no, but sometimes there is so much peer pressure and there was so much judgment, and you know, like sometimes if she doesn't do that, then because she is like the default for the mental order and the emotional labour, she often has to come home and pick up the pieces, you know, and then people will be like, Oh, well, you know, she shouldn't put up with that and she should just leave. A lot of the time, women can't, they don't have the financial um resources. Um, like there's just there's some there's so many like parts of this, and again, we're like putting all the ownership on women rather than kind of going, hey, that's not okay. So I've spoken about all of that, and I could go on about this to be honest, for fucking like years and years and years, like I could preach about this so so so much, but I don't just want to um say all of these things and then not bring any like solutions, not bring like any like uh things around how we can how we can change this. So

Boundaries That Change Home Life

SPEAKER_01 1:09:21

as I say, like I've got a list of things, some things wrote down. So I'm gonna just like go through some of the things and how this changed for me. And um, I am thinking actually of getting Tony on at some point, um, and like really, really going into this. Um, I might be, I'm not sure yet, depending how um you know things things pan out. I might take a little break from from the podcast, um, just because as I said, like I've been in this really, really hard, really hard season where like multiple things have all happened at at once. And um I really just um yeah. So I might I might take some time out, I might not, depending how things play out, because I actually love the podcast. This is actually me feeding into myself, but but but we'll see. So I may be back next week. I may have a little break, or I may just do random episodes here and there, and then when things have smoothed out a little bit, go back to like doing regularly on a Monday. I haven't I haven't decided yet, but just to give you a heads up if I'm not here next week, that is why, because I am um making lemonade bibs from a really, really hard season because it's been a season of like one thing after another. Like there has been, as I say, a really savage motherhood season, and I've also been dealing with some other stuff that I won't get into now because this episode would just be ridiculously long. But I want to wrap this up by giving some things that I have seen that have worked personally for me in my own life, but also when I've worked with other women and I've spoken to other women, um, things that have helped them with this this situation and kind of navigating this. And you know, if you're having a hard time parenting and like in a savage season, or you are the the default for the mental lord, or your partner doesn't see it, or the emotional liver, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

So I'm gonna let's let's go into some solutions and some things, okay? So right.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:42

First one I've got written down here is you must be willing to let people suffer and be unhappy. Yes, even your kids, right? So I know I have said in this episode, and I know I have said in previous episodes, um, what episode did I say about this in? Might have been the first episode, might be in the second episode. I know I've said it in one of the episodes, I don't know which one. I might have said it in a few of them. Um, but I know I have said before around, you know, a lot of the things that these things happen is because mothers aren't just going to let their kids suffer. And that is really, really important, right? Because we've got to stop blaming blaming mothers here, we've got to stop blaming women here, right? Because mothers aren't going to to do that, or at least they're not going to do that lightly, right? But I want to say, and I know this is like really hard for us to sometimes get our head around, and I know this is really, really taboo. Sometimes we do have to let them. Um, when I say suffer, I don't mean like, you know, like neglect or you know, not caretaking and like looking after your children and being there for them. That's not what I'm saying. I am saying, and I had I learned this the really, really, really hard way that sometimes your kids are just gonna be unhappy and they're going to go all through hard things and they're going to go through traumas, and sometimes they really do have to learn the hard way, and sometimes your partner might have to, and sometimes other people might have to, and again, this is very nuanced and this is very complex, but I say this is because I fought and I fought and I fought, and it brought me on my fucking knees. And my child, as I say, in 2022 went through a trauma, and and and it just it it broke me, and I tried everything for that not to happen, and it and it and it still happened, and um the situation again I'm going through like right now. I'm having to obviously like you know, I'm there for my child, but I'm having to to step back and to to pull back because my child, you know, is is 18, and and the same with with with my husband, like sometimes he didn't see things, and obviously now things are very, very different. And sometimes when I would bring stuff up, he would feel offended and he would feel attacked because patriarchally taught him that I was attacking him, and that oh my gosh, why is my wife having got me? Because at the end of the day, like I work and I actually show up for my kids and I actually do housework. Um, so he was you know taught, like not consciously, it's not like somebody ever said to him, but like basically um that like like why like why is she basically annoyed about this? Like he he was taught to feel like I was attacking him, and I had to learn to be okay with my kids not always liking it and and um putting myself first, and like all these things, or not even putting myself first, but just actually like advocating for myself and like being like kids might not like it, husband might not like it, and that was really fucking uncomfortable, and it's really frowned upon in society, even though we tell women all the time, like don't abandon yourself, don't keep pouring into everyone else, and like all of that. But the truth is we do teach women too, and we do judge women when when they don't, and the best thing I've learned to do is to advocate for myself, and I I will literally say to my kids, like, I am this this is everybody's work, everybody participates in the home. I'm not here to you know just clean up after you and like all of these things. Um, you know, like I I I actively teach them that you know I have a life and my pleasure and my happiness and my things matter. And um yeah, even if your child's going through a really hard time, even if they're really struggling, even if um all of these things, like that's still important, and again, there's complexity to this depending on the situation. But as somebody who fought and fought and fought, it didn't it didn't help, and if anything, I I would argue it made things worse. Um, yeah, so that that that's that's the first one. The second one is as women, um oh friction alchemy work is so important. So, like this leads into to the first one, like people aren't always gonna like it, and it's like, and again, providing it's safe. Obviously, I'm hoping nobody's listening to this who is dealing with an actual um emotionally or physically or financially or whatever abusive person, but we have to acknowledge that is some people's reality. Um we but so as I say, providing it is safe, it we have to um we have to learn to be okay with with friction and people people not liking it, right? Because we're already doing the emotional labour of trying to keep the peace and that doesn't work. And trying to keep the peace often leads to a shit short, often leads to actually just doing more emotional labor because we're so uncomfortable of people thinking, you know, like we're we're a bad mum or a bad partner, and all of these things. And one of the best things I did was just like, I'm not trying to be a good mother, I'm not trying to be a good wife, and I realized I always was. And for years I believed I wasn't, and society kept telling me that I wasn't, and if my kids weren't thriving, if they weren't always happy, and my husband wasn't always happy, that somehow I was failing. And here's what I what I've seen the women who change these patterns, they have to be willing for their husbands to not fucking like it to be pissed. And for some women, if they're in really unhealthy relationships, they worry what their partner will do, and like if they will go and find somebody else, and and that is very revealing, and like you can't live in that in that fear, and so many women do, they they they worry what the other party will do, whether whether it's their kids, whether it's their partner, if they don't keep them happy, and um then they end up having power over them. Like I'm seeing now a cycle where we've gone from you know a generation that had very abusive parents to a generation where um kids are growing up to be quite abusive towards towards their parents. And this isn't by no means I want to be very clear, like you know, the person's fault. Um when when, hopefully not when, but if it if it happens, and it's again, it's again something parents can't talk about. Um, and I just so one of the things I have learned to do, and from as young as possible, to teach your kids that you're not here to just um make your kids happy. Like women are taught and trained to be like, well, as long as the kids are happy, no, sometimes your kids won't be fucking happy. Can you be okay with that? Because you will end up the default for emotional there by the mental load, and that is not serving your kids. If your whole thing is as long as the kids are happy or trying to please your partner, you have to let that fucking go. You have to be okay with people being unhappy with you, of pissing people off. You have to stop being the um yeah, like you it just it just doesn't work. It doesn't work, and it's like we're trained to just be the default of emotional labor. That's like the emotional lab of being the key peace peacekeeper and smoothing emotions, and not ever trained to just be okay, and as I said, providing it's safe, um, that other people do not like when you take care of because your kids are not going to be like, oh, I really love it, that um I wanted my mum to make this meal or to to do give me a lift or whatever, and you go, um, no, I'm not making that. Like this, this is this is what I'm making. And it doesn't have to be that, right? You know, it doesn't have to be that. Or actually, no, I'm not giving you a lift, I'm doing this or I'm going out, right? And I'm not saying that you can't make your child the dinner they like and you can't give them lifts. Of course, like all of those things, like I will do those things, but it's like if that's the constant default where you're trying to make everybody fucking happy, it ends up a shit sure. It ends up a shit sure. It it it just ends up a shit sure. So the other thing is teach your kids as young as possible um that running a household is work and it is everybody's job. Everybody's job, teach them as young as possible to to notice what needs to be done and to do it. I did not do this, I didn't know I was supposed to do this. Then my kids got older, and um, of course, they weren't doing stuff, and then when I had to start getting them to actually participate and to do work around the home and all of that, as you can imagine, they um were not exactly um happy, not exactly thrilled. They resisted, they had tantrums, they were just like, oh my gosh, why is mum being so mean? Like, no child um is is gonna be thrilled by this if it's not their norm. If it's not their norm. They're going to tantrum, they're going to throw a strop, they're going to be annoyed. So back to the first one. Like, can you can you be okay? Like, they're not going to like it. They're not gonna like it, they're not gonna like it, and it's going to be work to change that dynamic. It is. There's no there's no avoiding that. Um, there's no avoiding that. Um this was something really hard for me because I was already exhausted, and then there was like the work of of doing that, and the work of like um you know, doing this in my marriage, and and some women are married to men who aren't gonna do the work and who don't care, so that's like a whole other story that we might get to today. Um, I don't know if we will we will have time because this podcast is already really, really, really, really long. Um but it's it it is work, it is work to do to do that, and it's it's just one of those things, but nothing will change. Like um relationships involve like showing up, they involve doing things, right? And um that is part of being in a relationship, and it gets to be it gets to be beautiful, it get it gets to be, it is not beautiful, however, when we're holding everything. It is that's not beautiful. When we create an ecosystem where there's reciprocity and everybody's showing up and everybody's considering each other and all of that, that that is that is a beautiful thing. But when it's not like that, and that doesn't happen like magically, and there are some women who are getting this right because they didn't get the training that people like myself got, um, the millenniums and like you know, older didn't get that. So now there is a lot more awareness of this. So people who are having children now or who had children, um, you know, as as I say, like the next generation, there was a lot more awareness of this. So this this is changing, but it's changing because we're we're having these conversations, because otherwise they would be in the same situation because there wouldn't be that awareness, because it would just be the norm. But it's because like people are clapping back, and millennials are speaking out and being like, oh my gosh, um, I'm expected to like do all of this stuff, and you know, so many women also provide a paycheck. Um, not that it matters if if you don't, because this this is work and you should be compensated and be able to financially be okay, even if you don't have a job outside of outside of the home, because it is work, it is it is work, and um it is not okay for one person to basically weaponize that they bring home a paycheck and you don't want so so this is changing, but um for a lot of us we didn't like we didn't have that and we so we ended up um the default for these things and um you know the longer this goes on, and for me this was really heavily ingrained because I wasn't aware of this until my children got a lot older. Like I wasn't I wasn't aware myself that the load that I was carrying. Um and I if I feel like it might perhaps sound stupid to people who are aware, but I wasn't aware that I was supposed to be teaching my children these things. Like, and for some people that might be like, well, duh, how did you not know that? But I was stressed, I was like, you know, overwhelmed, like I was like carrying all the things. Um, and I was taught a good mum does it all. She does it all, and it will be the best job ever. And just by some magical fairy tale thing, people will support her and she will thrive, and people will help they don't, they don't they don't help mothers, and your children certainly won't, because not because they're mean, but just because they won't know because they're children. Um, and you there's a good chance your partner won't know because he has been conditioned to not see it, and to to think um anything he does around the house, or if he actually parents, or if he actually brings a pay chalk home, warrants him the title of like he's fucking amazing, and you're just just just complaining. He might not say that, he might not even consciously think that, but underneath it all I see this time and time again. Um

Resourcing Yourself And Building A Village

SPEAKER_01 1:27:05

next one get resourced. If you do not have um a partner that's supportive, and I and I hope you do, um as women we have to start building community, we have to um yeah, friendship, community, um build villages, support each other. Um, we we've got to get convicted in um that we deserve more, get convicted in our self advocacy. Um you do deserve more than being the default for the mental lord. You do deserve more than being the um default for soothing everything over and for the emotional labor. You deserve to be in relationships where your feelings, your Your time, your passion, your hobbies, your interests matter and they are prioritized. And um, and when you start going, hey, my time does matter, and my passions do matter, and you get really convicted in that. And sometimes that takes like getting mad. That's what happened for me. I like I got fucking mad and I realize now it's like this is bullshit. This is bullshit. And um, I always say this, but uh I really believe that when women get angry and they get mad and they get resentful and they get bitter, it's often the part of themselves that loves them the most. And there's a reason that they teach women that that is those emotions and those feelings are ugly. Um, rather than using all that, uh channeling all that so that we can create different reality. I didn't create a different reality because um I was like, hey, this is cool, this is cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:04

I'm the default for all of this, and um like and be cool with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:13

No, like I changed it because I got fucking mad, and recently I've been resentful and bitter and mad, and like making some fucking changes, and um it has not come because I've been like, okay, well, this is okay, this is this is cool. I'm like, this is not fucking okay, this is not cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:36

Like yeah, because you gotta break the status quo at times.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:45

That is where the change comes when you honor this is not working for you and you honor the grief. And um, I can't tell you how many times that I have um like I've cried and I've got angry and I've got really sad recently. And um then I'm like, okay, what are you gonna do about it, Kirsty? Like, life's given you some lemons, what are you gonna do about it? Because I'm sure as hell not gonna just accept the lemons. Like I might be like accepting this is my situation, being get life's given me some lemons. And I'm not, I don't, I just accept that that is just just gonna be my life. No, I've gone, you know what? I'm gonna create so much joy outside of this, around this. I'm gonna alchemize what I can. Some things like are outside of our control, some things um, or the people involved, there's there's free will involved. Like we can't alchemize those things. But we can alchemize our side of it. We can decide how we're gonna advocate for ourselves. We can get convicted in taking care of ourselves, in um our own self-advocacy. We can decide, like, I'm not just here to please everybody, I'm not just here to sue everybody's emotions, I'm also here to pursue my own interests and my own passions, even if other people around me are struggling, even if they're unhappy, even if they don't like it. I I say this all the time, but like as women, we often have to um get a bit more entitled and kind of go, actually, no, like what I care about does fucking matter. It does matter. It does matter. And I'm gonna get more resourced and I'm gonna follow my intuition to kind of figure that out so that if I am struggling financially or I don't have community or I don't have reciprocal relationships, I'm gonna take it one step at a time, but I'm going to be, I'm going to like, like you have to decide that that is like not gonna be your reality. And you have to be like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna create that one step at a time, but I'm going to get more resource, I'm going to create that village. I'm gonna like, and it starts by knowing that um you are you are worthy of that, and um yeah, like you you and going, I'm I'm not just here to take care of everybody else. Letting go the identity around being everybody's caretaker and being there for everybody, everybody. You have to be there for you, and I'm gonna say this to the mothers listening to this, which I assume a lot of people are because of the you know the title of this podcast. Um, but like it doesn't do our children any favors um for them to not see you advocating for yourself. Like um they they I really believe that they need to see you go saying no to them at times and and disappointing them and then being unhappy and saying to them, hey, like I'm not just here to serve, not just here to serve, I'm not just here to sacrifice. Because otherwise they're gonna think that that's what they're here to do. To um drown in in taking care of everybody else's needs. And that um the pattern will never change, and we will never create a system where women can thrive, where our children can grow up and to be in these really beautiful, delicious relationships where they are really supported, where they are not just the default for for everything. Like that they they have to see that being role modeled. And if you don't have a village and you don't have a support and the people around you are are struggling and uh suffering, sometimes you have to let them suffer. And as I say, I'm not talking like neglecting your children and all of these things, but it's like you can't do it all, and you're not meant to do it all, and it doesn't serve your kids to do it all. It it it doesn't so sometimes we have to let the the the fantasy and the fairy tale go and be like, okay, what is this season actually actually showing me? What do I actually need to address? What do I actually need to address? Oh

Closing Thoughts And Working Together

SPEAKER_01 1:34:36

there is so so so so much more I could say, but we are over an hour and a half already, so I'm gonna wrap this up here. As I say, I do plan on being here next week, but if I am not if I am not, that is because I am oh I'm out here just oh pouring into myself. I'm doing the work, I'm doing the work, I'm pouring into myself, and um like focusing on living my best life and creating more spaciousness in my diary because I'm coming out of it, but I am in in a hard, I've been in a very savagey season, and I haven't talked about it that much on the podcast, but I have been in a really savagey season with multiple things. As I say, I haven't gone into them all, but I've had various different things from family stuff to had some health stuff to deal with, like various different things. But I will um yes, just just keep looking out for the next the next podcast episode. And if you would like to work with me, go to Kirstyd.com. Um, I have a one-to-one package coming out called Rule Breaker because as women we need to break some motherfucking rules for things to change. Um, I've got alchemy activation um sessions and um pink alchemy is also coming up. So check all that out at cursyd.com and in the meantime, have the most wonderful day or evening or weekend, depending when you're listening to this, and I will chat to you very soon.