On the reg

Analogue Productivity - is this book bullshit?

• Season 6 • Episode 80

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Inger is in town, so Jason took her to a pod casting studio as a treat for episode 80 (can you believe it?!). The sound is very nice on this one folks, but This is a Studio in Prahran can take ALL the credit.

There's a fair bit in the mailbag, leading to discussions about the book Inger wrote with Narelle (and Claude) Rich Academic / Poor Academic and a little bit of Text Expander and Omnifocus talk (because naturally).

In our work problems segment we talk about Analogue Productivity by Curtis Hale and ask "is this book bullshit?". We conclude it isn't, but Inger tells Jason he doesn't have to read it. 

Stay tuned for more about what we are reading and two two minute tips (for a change). We were on the clock for this episode, but maybe it's a good think because it's pretty tight and chock full of productivity goodness! 

Links to stuff

Got thoughts and feel pinions? Want to ask a question? You can email us on <pod@ontheregteam.com>

- Leave us a message on www.speakpipe.com/thesiswhisperer.

- See our workshop catalogue on www.ontheregteam.com. You can book us via emailing Jason at enquiries@ontheregteam.com

- Subscribe to the free, monthly Two Minute Tips newsletter here (scroll down to enter your email address)

- We're on BlueSky as @drjd and @thesiswhisperer (but don't expect to hear back from Jason, he's still mostly on a Socials break).

- Read Inger's stuff on www.thesiswhisperer.com.

- If you want to support our work, you can sign up to be a 'Riding the Bus' member for just $2 a month, via our On The Reg Ko-Fi site




We're in a studio. Can you tell the difference? I can tell the difference. I wanna turn the snoring room at home into I don't, I've always wondered why you don't. Yeah, I know. How could, would it be right?

I could do it. Yeah. You could do it. And then you just like, only just in there. Yeah. I don't think that I'd get past the decoration committee at home. Oh, I, I think that like, I'd get into trouble so here we are, um, for. Episode 80, Inga Newburn. So I'm gonna kick off. That's a cold read. It was a cold intro. Yeah. That was cold open. Cold open, cold open. Um, welcome to On the Reg. This is episode 80 and my name is Dr. Jason Downs and I'm here with my good friend, professor Inga Newburn.

And she's from the Australian National University, but she's better known as the Thesis Whisperer on the internet. And we are here for another episode of On the Reg Podcast where we talk about work, but you know, not in a boring way, practical implementable productivity hacks to help you live a more balanced life.

Uh, are we gonna do a little bit of foreshadowing? I [00:01:00] put a foreshadow bit in there. I know. And the, I told myself I was not gonna read the word foreshadowing out loud, that I was just gonna kind of move into that, but now I've done it. Okay. Um, in this episode, we are going to do another, is this book Bullshit Book episode.

And the book is on Analog Productivity by Curtis McHale. So with that, Inga, welcome. Yes, thank you. How have you been? Well, we're in the same time space continuum. Yes. We're at, this is a studio in Pran. Pran. And that's because I'm in Melbourne. I know. I'm doing a thing. I drove the yellow tiger. You, you gave me a new name for my car.

It's now the yellow tiger. It's had its suspension all fixed up. Ooh. Is it? It's not rattling on the front left hand wheel anymore, which is great. They had to fix it twice, but it's, it's, she's all good. Is it nose down? High performance, suspension. Super, super, super. So I drove up yesterday and , for the first time ever there were no broken charges, [00:02:00] which it's the rules that the charges are broken.

Yeah. But we were able to get a charge, even a coffee at every stop. So, you know, the Yellow Tiger and me, I listen to every podcast. Like I queued up the really long, you know, philosophical. Yeah. I think I, the one I've been listening to at the moment is in bed with the right. Which is about right wing politics in America where they sort of unpack it all.

So I was listening to a lot of that. Did you learn anything? I did. Okay. It's really good podcast. It's not depressing. They're just like, Hey, everything's really fucked and here's why. Um, so that, that was good. So I'm here. Yep. I went up to Queensland last week and it was nice to be out of the cold Canberra and into the warmer Queensland. And I visited Rachel and Darlene, and Glenda and Yvonne, all my girlfriends. Mm-hmm. And Glenda. And Yvonne took me to the soak bathhouse.

Right, which is at the top of a skyscraper in West End in Brisbane, and it's a Japanese onsen experience. Wow. Fancy. Yeah. [00:03:00] So you go into like different temperature of plunge pools, right? Like warmish, and then really hot, and then you go into a sauna and then you do an ice plunge and you kind of just do that in a circle.

Okay. How many ti, how many laps? I did two laps. Okay. And the second time I actually managed to submerge myself in the plunge pool. It's amazing. It's amazing. Was this good for your skin or something? I don't know, but I was so relaxed that I made Glenda take me to my hotel and I went to the wrong hotel.

You did not go to the wrong hotel? I did. 'cause I was so relaxed after my bathhouse experience and then I end up at this hotel and they're like, this is not the hotel you want. I'm like, oh fuck. Like, so just gimme a room. I don't care what it costs. Just give it to me because I had to get up at 4:00 AM to get back on the first plane out.

'cause I had to teach at nine and I made it. How did, like, hang on, I wanna just, we have to track back on this. Yeah. Did you just like, uh, Glenda that that hotel will do? No, I was just like, oh, I think it's the IBUs. And she's like, where? And I'm like, oh, near the airport. I didn't know there were two. Uh, [00:04:00] and then I got to the fancy IBUs, not the shitty IBUs that I'd actually booked.

Then they're like, oh no, you need to get in a cab and go 10 minutes down the road. And I was just like, I can't, because I was so relaxed. I'd been sitting in a soaking in the hot tub for two hours at that point. And they give you herbal tea? Ah, yeah. Nice. And it's just the whole experience. This is what they do in Brisbane.

Now. They're ahead of the rest of us. They're more civilized. That's all I'm saying. Um, work situation update, like actual, uh, a NU. It's um, still shit. That's the, the technical term. Yes. And um, people are fighting it out in the Canberra times and the age. Yeah. And you know, so it's all getting, and you can hear I'm a little bit sniffy 'cause I've also for some reason had some sort of cold thing, but it doesn't really, really land on me.

This is like six days now. I've been like this. I haven't really been very sick. Yeah. But I've just sound terrible. Okay. And I think I've had so many boosters for flu and COVID and everything. I think I must have got a touch of something like that. But my body's just like, eh, you know, give you a runny nose.

So that's [00:05:00] me. I've got this mental image of whatever thing it is that's running around inside your body. Um, whatever it is that's running around inside of your body is like, I'm gonna zig left, Zig left and I'm gonna attack her there. And then you've got an immunity patch somewhere that like, you know, from Yeah, it's like smacking and like, I think Wonder Woman ding dinging.

What gonna zag, right. Ding. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it's been, it's, it's just like, it's just getting me down. It's more the evenings, you know, anyway, just for like old person whinging about my health. But anyway, that's been me. How about you? Yeah, pretty. I've been pretty good actually. Um, work's. Been busy. Yeah, we've both been busy, which is great.

Um, and in fact I've had a couple of gigs at RMRT, so the old stomping ground. Yeah. In fact. Which was weird to go back like it's been years. Right? Right. Since I've gone back onto campus, it feels like yesterday at the same time. Feels like yesterday. Um, and some of the technology interfaces are still the same from when I was there last time.

So I literally walked into the room, took my laptop outta the bag, plugged [00:06:00] it in, and it was like, oh yes, I've been here before. I've done, oh man. Yeah. And that for long time listeners will know that both of us met at RMIT University about like 15 years ago. It's been a long time since, yeah. 17 years ago.

Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. We should count. We should actually do probably we should try and get our origin story nailed down. We need a historian to help us. Um, and like that was really, that was really good. I mean, it was definitely weird walking into like a place plugging in and kind of just going and very much feeling like an outsider at the same time.

Yeah. As there's really familiar. I, you know, like I've been in this room before, I've presented in this room before sort of thing, but the last time I presented I was a staff member there. So Yeah. Like the familiar strange, right. Yeah, it was weird. It was weird. Anyway the good news is our content landed really well.

Great. With all of the current crop of PhD students that we teaching, so got some really good feedback there. We did harnessing AI for researchers. Mm-hmm. I did something for [00:07:00] supervisors. Yeah, you did something for supervisors. Yeah. And the other one we did was research project management. Oh, right.

As well. Um, yeah, they were great. Got great, got great feedback. It was been really good. I would've thought we'd get more research project management call outs than we have. Yeah. I think it's one of our strong suits, but like, especially now that I've finished the book on it with Pat and Amy and Helen.

Yeah. Um, which I'll talk about a bit later on, but like, people, I don't know why people don't teach it more. It's, it's, maybe they don't. Yeah. I don't know. I, I'm not, I'm not a hundred percent sure the mm. You know, you don't know that you've had good research tr project training until you've had good research project training, I think.

Yeah. It's almost like, oh, I don't need that. Yeah. And then you haven't, and you're like, I, I actually did need that very much. Like I needed the Japanese on send bath bathhouse experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Didn't know I needed that in my life. Um, other than that, it's been school holiday time. Mm-hmm. Uh, here.

And so the young fellow has been at home hanging [00:08:00] around and the kids are today, man, they don't go out and spend time on their bikes or do things like that. No. What they do is they get into planes with their parents and they fly to different parts of the world and hang out with their folks and stuff.

So because we don't do that young fella was like, well, my friends are overseas. And that's Wow. Really? Which has been, yeah. And that's not true for everyone. Yeah. But you know, like there were, there was a number of them that were not around and actually go on holidays. Mm-hmm. Do things. Yeah. So weirdos.

So anyway, so he hung around a lot at home. There was a lot of TV watching going on. Yeah. Mm-hmm. While I was working. But that's okay. Towards the end of the holiday period there, he went and did a three day sailing course at the Albert Park sailing club there, yacht club there. And the, one of the instructors that they just happened to have, there was someone who is on the Olympic pathway.

Wow. I know. Right now I'm like genuinely impressed by, by the sailing. Like I don't, I don't do it. Like I watch it from the outside. [00:09:00] I'm sailing adjacent. Yes. As it were. You have a powered motor. Yes. T titty. Yes. Yeah. You are not the, you know, I'm not relying on the wind power. No, no. Not for you. Not for me. I want, I want 15 horsepower.

A carburetor. Yeah. Um. You know, their ability to just be able to wrangle an Olympian, like someone who's on the path to the Olympic the next Olympics, to be able to come and teach kids how to sails for three days. It was like, did he appreciate it? The kids? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think so. His instructor wasn't that person, but just the fact that they were able to get that person there because they do a bit of theory and then they do some sailing and all that sort of stuff.

It was great. Mm-hmm. Um. Anyway, so school holidays come to an end and I've got him, I've, I've employed him. Yes. He's we were talking about that he's employee number one Yes. In the, on the team business. Yeah. And doing, I've got him pulling all of our data for the last year. 'cause we're a year old. Um, no, it's amazing.

In Inga, our business. Yeah. And I have to put [00:10:00] together a director's report so that I can report back to all of our directors. Luke and Kath actually. Yeah. Because you and I know what's going on, but they don't Yes. They don't know what's going on. Yeah. And so I've taken the opportunity to start to get him to do some of the analysis around who, you know, who's been hiring us, how much travel have we done, all that sort of stuff.

It's and so the report will have pictures of, you know, heat maps of where we've done all of our work and our NPS averages and all that sort of stuff. It's kind of, we probably don't need that as part of the director's report, but it's been but free labor. Free labor and it's been good for him to kind of get a sense of the kinds of work that he might, he might be required to do in the future.

So, you know, he's learning how to use AI and that sort of stuff as part of it. We had a big, long conversation about, um, capitalism and how capitalism is both extractive and coercive because he needed to know that as an employee, that I was both extracting value from him and I was coercing him into doing it.

Right. Yeah, yeah. Welcome, Jack. He [00:11:00] did say to me, dad's not paying me. And I went, oh, really? And he goes, well, you need to have talked to him about that. And I said, he goes, don't tell, don't tell him I told you. He's so shifty. He's pretty shifty. I thought that was like a, a kind of sweet movie. I'm pretty sure you were upstairs and could hear him saying that to me.

So I don't think I'm like trashing his confidence or anything, but it's very funny. I suspect he's he's looked at you and he's gone. A weak link. Soft touch. Yeah. Weak link. Weak link. I'm owning it. Uh, very funny. Very funny. Alright, so that's us. Yeah. You know, like things have been going well. Yeah. Um, I'm gonna move us on to the mailbag.

Mailbag, because you're doing such a good time. 'cause we actually have a short episode today, listeners. We do. Yeah. We're on a clock. We, yeah, we're on a clock. Maybe we should be in a podcast studio. We've got an, we've got an hour to go. Yeah, we need to be out. Let's do it like five o'clock. So mailbag, we love hearing from you all.

This is our chance to share interesting things that our listeners share with us. We have a shiny [00:12:00] new podcast address. Yes. Which is pod at on the reg team.com. If you send us a email to that, we'll make sure it gets onto the very next episode. Although I think it was Brian wrote to us today Yes.

Who complained about the fact that he couldn't find on our podcast, like Page or anywhere else, or on the, on the, on the Reg team page. That particular address. Well, that's probably an oversight. Thank you, Brian. Thank you Brian. Thank you for that feedback. Yeah, we will rectify that. I wonder how much spam we'll get.

Oh, man. Like our website, we are such a professional organization. I mean, we get a lot of business, but it's all word of mouth, right? Like, yeah. Okay. I've, I've got, that's on, it's part of my roadmap. 90 clients can't be wrong over a year. It's pretty good. Pardon? Thank you to all those people. Yeah. It's part of my, like on the roadmap for the, this particular quarter I got, I got, I got you.

We're gonna have a brand new website soon. Um, this email, our first one is from our good friend [00:13:00] Martin Emo. Oh, Martin. Martin. Over in New Zealand. You'd be very proud of our audio quality. I know this time. Martin listen to us. How good do he say? So doll it to, he writes to let us know that setting up business banking.

You'll remember I complained or we complained bitterly about National Australia Bank. Terrible cough, terrible National Australia Bank. You just terrible Lift a game. Yeah, yeah. About how hard it was to set up business banking. It get like all the approvals and stuff. It just took forever. Anyway, um, Martin writes that in New Zealand it's way better than in Australia.

Of course it is. 'cause New Zealand's just better than Australia. Let's face it. Yeah. So, hey, re Banks in Oz on your recent podcast. Mm. Took about two weeks to set up a business bank with four accounts, including credit card with a $10,000 limit and two years free. Nyob out. Yeah. MYOB account. Um, it was with a NZ bank, which is, is Australian owned, like all of our banks except for one.

And he goes easy as and when he, in the email when I read, easy as I could [00:14:00] hear him in my head. Um, he goes on to say that your Aus Banks are rubbish. True. Took one year for a research aus slash New Zealand organization. I was on the exec to get internet banking sorted. It's a 10 minute job here.

What are we doing? I don't know. Just not to scare academics outside of a Australia. See you when you need a third wheel. Drop me a line. Thanks Martin. He's also sent through a photograph. He's on route to a music teacher conference with one piece of carry on for his dj. That is like minimalist life.

Yeah, I know, right? Yeah's living the dream. Yeah, he's living the dream. That's fun. Hope you had a good time, Martin. Martin, I'll be in touch. It turns out I'll be in New Zealand sometime soon, so I know, right? I it's very soon, actually. Very soon. Like week after next. Yes. Yes. I will be in touch. Your first time.

First time. Never been. Oh, it's so good. It's the best. You'll come back going. Why don't I live in New Zealand? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well I'm looking that that will happen. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. Yeah. I've been told that I need to go and have a bath by multiple people, but I've been told that I need to go and have a bath [00:15:00] in mud.

Oh yeah. The mud baths. I feel that this is re like somehow. Well, I've done my Japanese onsen soak experience, so you can do that and we can compare notes next time. Yeah. But you would've come out clean. Yeah. Yes. I feel as though I'll come out of this thing. I'm sure they'll wash the mud off. You not clean.

I don't know. Anyway. Very good for your skin, darling. Yeah. Next one's in black, which means, oh yes. This one's from Emma. From a university in Jason's old hometown, Adelaide, Adelaide, Adelaide, Adelaide, Emma, rights. Hi Jason and Inga. I continue to be amazed at how much I want to nerd out with content from the pod.

As an OG listener, I have to say you steer people away from listening to the older episodes, but there are definitely some gems in there too. I've just listened to the Entrepreneur episode and it came at a serendipitous time. When I've been contemplating my own lifeboat, I would definitely vote for workshop or book about being entrepreneur.

Might I ask, if you also decide to produce extra content in this space, would you consider a funding or payment deep dive? I've done much of the [00:16:00] legwork around being a consultant, but the one thing that people don't wanna tell you is about money. Any advice would be , greatly appreciated. I wish I'd read this one when I put the show notes together for today.

Thank you for all of your hard work and dedication. Says Emma, to the pod and its listeners. Take care. Emma. Thank you. That's a lovely letter. I feel so validated, but what a great topic. We could talk about money. Oh yeah. Should we do that next time? Maybe. Um, we've got, uh, we've got feelings about Stripe.

Yes. So many thoughts and feelings. Yeah. Yeah. Um, the outgoings are the ones that really kill you because everything's subscription model now. Oh man. You own nothing. Yeah. Just paying rent all the time. All the time. It's death by a thousand cuts. Before you know it, it's thousands of dollars subscriptions.

It's, yeah. Yeah. Um, and it's just, it's filthy. So when they come in, they're just like, Ugh. Really? Really? Yeah. Yeah. And you, every month I go, do we need that? Do we not need that? Yeah. There is something fantastic about, um, uh. Having sales off a website though I have [00:17:00] sales off my Thesis Whisperer website, just sell PDFs.

Mm-hmm. And it's straight to Stripe and it goes straight to my bank account. Mm. And I was looking at it to do my tax the other day, and it's like nearly $2,000 I've got just from selling $4 PDFs basically. Wow. So people just like constantly buy it. Like every time I go into my email, I've got a notification thank you to everyone who's bought it.

Yeah. Every time I publish a post, I get a bit of spike in. Oh. And it just, you kind of, you know, those little trickles of income, especially if the light vote and you're in the early stages, it wouldn't help us. Now it wouldn't keep you in, wouldn't keep you in the style of which you've become accustomed.

The yellow tiger wouldn't be paid off, but yeah. Um, so we did write rich academic, poor academic, which is more the strategy of it. Yeah. Um, so that's on my website. If you wanna buy, it's $5 60 the cost of an almond latte in Adelaide. Ah, there go. Yeah. But I think there's a lot to be said about, you know, how do you, how do you organize your [00:18:00] IP with university and all that kind of stuff.

People ask me questions about that all the time and what kind of things do you need to put in your contract and Yeah. You know, and pricing's really, really tricky. Pricing is tricky. They're like being able to, you set your price and then. You kind of suck it and see a little bit. And then you have to experiment to try and figure out what the market will bear and what it won't bear, and where you're adding your value.

And, and I've been surprised sometimes, you know, where people have been very willing to pay good money and then other times we're for the same thing. Yeah. And they're just like, nah. Yeah. They're like, wow, that's expensive. And you're like, it isn't though, actually, there's this concept called the refusal offer.

Okay. Which is you should, um, like work on your price, like work on pitching your pricing until that still, till more people are saying no, then yes. Yeah. And that's when you've got the pricing, kind of like you do less clients, but you get the higher, get more pricing more. But it is really tricky, [00:19:00] especially with the universities.

'cause their, their funding models are so opaque and Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty difficult. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I guess the only way you can really do it, it. If you can find a friendly someone who's working in your niche or adjacent to your niche or something and they're willing to, to talk about kind of the sorts of money that they're earning, it's, you kind of have to start there.

Right? Yeah. I love designing business strategy. I do it all the time. So if you're at a new listening Yes. As part of my AI dividend, I'm happy to have a coffee and talk about it. Okay. Alright. Yeah. Um, Lisa writes to us to let us know that we're using the terms research ethics and research integrity interchangeably.

We do. That is fair, Lisa, but let's be clear. I think that's just me. Lisas being nice by not name checking me. Thank you, Lisa. So Lisa writes, hello Ingram and Jason. I'm a big fan and OTR is a joy to listen to. As a member of support staff at an Aussie University, I'm super intrigued [00:20:00] by many of your work hacks, but not yet in a position to put them into action at work myself.

Even So I listen avidly to each new episode. Thank you, Lisa. Lisa, I'm just gonna say one word to you, which is text expander. Oh, text expander. Everyone can get value added text expander. Yes. Mm-hmm. Like if you've not really lent into text expander, having, I worked in professional settings inside universities.

It's, yeah. And everyone I know in professional services who I've introduced it to has said, oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. There will just save you heaps of time. Um, so yes. Uh, text, get onto it. Mm. Lisa, uh, continues on to say just a little note from my niche corner of the sector that in episode 78 I noticed that you mentioned researched ethics a couple of times mm-hmm.

In relation to issues that, to my professional mind were more about research integrity. I know pedantic much, but since that's my bag and because I know most of the people conflate the two, [00:21:00] I thought I could make a small contribution by saying that there is in fact a distinction. There is. There is. Um, Inga, we talked about this last night, didn't we before?

Yeah. And I said totally fair. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, sure. You were like, is it that? And I'm like, yep. Yeah. I'm like, we should clean up our act, Jason. You should. And yeah. I should clean up my act Anyway. Lisa Wrights, when institutions talk about human and also animal research ethics, it's about how you treat the participants or subjects who provide the data for your research.

It's about the care owed and how to ensure that respect is built into the data collection process and how findings are shared with the communities involved at heart. I think it situates researchers within communities of interest. Mm. Research integrity. Mm-hmm. Is a bigger zone. Yeah. It includes research ethics, but is about overarching issues around how you conduct research in good faith and with credibility, authorship and publication collaboration, data management, peer review, supervision, conflicts of interest, [00:22:00] uh, to reiterate the Australian code for the responsible conduct of research.

Mm-hmm. So, to me, how you talk about the impact of gen AI on your research belongs here, unless the discussion ves into individual's data security or using people's material without consent. Yeah. On one level it doesn't really matter. You are talking about doing the right thing in research and that's really what counts.

Cheers. Keep up the fabulous work. Love lovely people like you are why I loved working in academia. Lisa. Thank you. Nice. Thanks Lisa. So I'm going to make a real commitment now to actually tighten my language up and I teach research ethics and over the years I've, I just, I find it the hardest thing I have to teach 'cause it's so complicated.

Yeah. There's so many aspects to it and so much of it is just gray area. Like, um, and then there's like what people do and what they should do, you know, and there's like, I find that part of it quite interesting. Yeah. Um, but yeah, you're right. I mean, research ethics is its whole thing, you know? Yeah. And, and ethics is more than just about the [00:23:00] process, which I think she's making a good point there.

Yeah. Yeah. That it's about. You know, it's a, it's a way of thinking actually about your research participants. And I would say that, um, my risk bot Yes. That I've trained up Yes. To help me write my ethics applications is trained up on neurodivergence in particular. Yep. It's quite helpful for sort of thinking through, you know, how do you think about your participants?

How do you approach 'em, how do you recruit them? All that kind of stuff. So yeah, it's, it's important. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, um, I think I'd have to go back and listen to the way in which I used the term to be really sure about this, but generally when I think about all of that, it's a really big concept in my mind that crystallizes around.

The actual piece of paper that you submit to the committee. Yeah. So for me it doesn't at all because I've taught it for so long and I've also written courses in it and Yeah. And actually, you know, the thing that gets the most use gets pulled out of the draw the most is the stuff around authorship. Yep.

Because people get cranky. Yeah, yeah. And sorting those problems out [00:24:00] heinous. One of the reasons I don't wanna go any higher in my job and become a dean of graduate research is I'd have to start sorting that shit out. And I do not want to, it's like you get a small room, you Yes. You like two people go in, one person comes out bj Yeah.

It's like, gotcha. It's not that hard. No. Um, professor Lin, who, you know, writes and Yeah, this one's in black. Oh yes, professor Lynn from the University of Sussex. Hi Lynn has written to us again. Lynn's an ad avid power user of OmniFocus and has appeared on episode 1, 4 4 of the Omni Shows podcast where she unpacks how she uses OmniFocus.

And we'll put a link in the show notes for that. And Lynn rises to us. Hi, Jason and Inga love the latest podcast. Oh, the wait to the next Fix. Yes. Been a little bit, um, haven't been on the re It is a joke. It is a joke, but on the regular we are not that regular. Like we do it when we can, but but yes, thank you for being, you know, wanting to wait.

Since we've correspondence before about OmniFocus, I thought I'd just share this thing. I wrote about it, using it to [00:25:00] collect spare thoughts about teaching. And so there's a, uh, building, second teaching Prep Brain. Yep. Well worth a read. Okay. Well worth a read. Quick pricey. No, no. Okay. Go read it in case of interest.

Yeah. Lynn says, uh, would love to use that Microsoft Power Automate. That was mentioned in the podcast, but the website's written in technical language. I don't speak. I did find someone who have written a how to and there's another link there, which we'll share with you. Yeah. Uh, Lynn said, then I discovered that Power Automate is not part of our 3 6 5 Microsoft 3, 6, 5 package at work.

Oh, well, love seeing you on LinkedIn. Keep well, Lynn Murphy, professor of Linguistics at the University of Sussex. Thank you, Lynn. Um, yeah, I've got Power Automate, but I can't make it work, Lynn. I was like, oh, I'm going to get into that. Yeah. And, uh, blow me down. I can't figure it out. That link might help. I will.

I will go and have a look at that. They have turned on all sorts of, um, 3, 6, 5 stuff lately, and it's like a constant keeping up with that little hamburger menu where you [00:26:00] press it and there's like more of them there. And there's a copilot studio in there as well, which is where you can build copilot bots and things like that.

No, I have, I have extracted myself from the Microsoft universe. And you don't, you no longer have to deal with it. No, I like I It's not in your world legitimately. The only time I deal with anything to do with Microsoft now. Is, um, sometimes a client will send us like a teams meeting request and you go on teams and I have to go on teams.

We met lovely Alex this morning. Yes, we did. Who worked with shout out. Hi, Alex. Hi. Alex works for Microsoft and we had a, we had a little love fest about teams. Me and Alex. I'm like, if I didn't have teams, I don't feel like I'd have a teams Yeah. Because we don't see each other really. Yeah. 'cause one of us lives in Melbourne and then as I said, I just don't go in.

I should go in. It's too cold. So cold at the moment. It's a 1960s building and it's fricking freezing. Yeah. So, you know, I I, I couldn't work out why it was so cold. And then someone had left my heading on up at 30 and it was mildly warm. Right. And I figured I just have to crank [00:27:00] te heating up to 30. Yeah.

That's what I have to do. Yeah. Really. But anyway, I do love the old bit of teams, so that's a pity about power automate. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I remember thinking I'd been using back channels for a while Right. In teams. So you have. The official teams. Yes. And then you have your back channel Yes. Teams. Right. And, um, I'd been doing that for a while and hadn't really thought much about it until one day I found out that one of, that my team that Yes.

Reported to me Yes. Had a back channel about me. And I was like, what do you mean? You are like, how come I'm not invited to that? And I know. 'cause we wanna talk about you without you there behind your back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, Hmm. Okay. Fair enough. Um, the next one is just a, a special shout out to Megan from the University of Alberta.

Because she wrote us an extensive email on how she uses Bojo and how her practice has changed since 2018 when she first started. And it was a long email. Inga. Yeah. Um, it also, there's a lot in there. It included photographs of [00:28:00] the spread she uses. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I thought we might hold this one over until our next bojo focused episode where we can go deep into our practices.

Yeah. Well it could have been this episode 'cause we are gonna talk about Bojo a little bit. Okay. But okay. Like that's just production meeting. Yeah. Talk amongst yourselves. Yeah. Um, thanks for writing to us, Megan. Um, so here's a bit of a call out for everybody else. If you've got something about Bojo that you want to share with the community, write to us at pod at on the reg team.com.

Um, send us your bojo thoughts, feel opinions, and maybe spreads packs. Yeah. Hacks. Um, how do you use Bojo in the world? And what we might do is might collect 'em all together, do an edited. Supercar. Yes. Love that. Love the BuJo. Love that. So it's not just you and me talking about how our practices Yeah, yeah.

But we can bring in Megan's practice and we can bring in other people's practices as well. Yeah. 'cause you can riff on the basic format of it, so. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's really good, I think, to just share that practice. 'cause we've all got similar [00:29:00] problems. That'd be great. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we've got a couple of other emails, um, in the mailbag messages, and then I'll hold them over, but only because we're on a clock today.

Yeah. Here at this is a studio in Pran. Yes. But thank you for writing to us. Yes. There's no speak pipes though, so, you know, if you want to wanna drop us a speak pipe, you can speakpipe.com/the thesis whisperer. Three, we'll put it, we'll pop it on. Three minutes of golden silence that you can fill. There you go.

You can talk to us about anything. We'll, uh, actually it would've been interesting 'cause we would've had to have patched that through into, I know, into It would've been actually tricky. Today would've been. So it's probably a good thing that you didn't speak pipe. But next time. Next time, yes. Next time. Um, so let's move on to our next section, which is our work problems.

I feel like we're speeding through it today. Yeah. It's probably not a bad thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got 45 minutes left to No. Let's go, let's go land this puppy. All right. Um, noted, noted. Uh, I'm gonna give a bit of an intro and then I'm gonna hand it over to you because Okay. Today you are gonna talk about our work problems.

I'm gonna have to throw to you a lot because it's a real [00:30:00] surface read, but go on. Okay. Right. We'll do that. Um, our work problems is a problem that you've had to solve since we last spoke. Mm-hmm. Um, in this part of the show, we focus on one aspect of work and well, we tend to nerd out on it. We sometimes tackle to tap problems.

To problems. Yeah. Problems. Problems. We sometimes tackle problems we've had at work or discuss a theme suggested by a listener. We always try and be practical, sharing our own tips, hacks, and feel opinions. This week our topic is over to you. So last time, yes. I dropped that, I had, I would this book in response to Ben Crow writing to us and sort of making a few book suggestions.

Thank you Ben. I bought all those books and I'll be reading those. I mentioned that, um, Ben should read Analog product, analog Productivity. Oh my God, it's terrible. We're terrible. Bring more value to your work with Paper and Pen by Curtis McHale, which was recommended to me years ago by Alex Norman, I think at the, um, Western Sydney [00:31:00] University.

I think Alex, who I think listens but maybe doesn't, I dunno. Hi Alex. Hi. Um, it's a shortish book. Actually. My Kindle says that people can read it in two and a half hours and I kind of like that. Mm. And I read it years ago and I thought I'll just flick through it 'cause you were like, you're holding out on me.

There was some accusatory language and I know that you've got a lot of other books to read because you've been doing your business lounge book Yes. Challenge. Yes. So I didn't wanna add another one to your TBR Yes. TB red pile. So I thought, you know, I'll just give you an Is this book bullshit? Yeah. And I went back and I did it like a very quick surface read across it.

And I'm like, it's one of those books where I'm like, oh, I liked this the first time and now I'm not sure. Uh. And I think that's because I got so much out of it the first time that now it seems old hat to me. How many years ago are we talking? Like five? Five years. Oh yeah. That's reasonably recent in your productivity Nerdery six, maybe before we started Podding.

Okay. Yeah, it was definitely before we potted. Yeah. But we've been productivity nerds for like [00:32:00] I know, I know you and I have been nerding out about it, but I don't think we'd, we hadn't done bullet journals. Okay. And that was one of the first places I've read deeply about bullet journals. Then didn't do it until you did it because that's my practice.

I wait for you to do things. Okay. And then I copy you. Right. That's always been how we do things. Um, so, um, and I, I think I remember reading it and it being kind of like, oh yeah, this is really, really good. And then I went back and read it and like, eh, like this is just all the stuff that we ordinarily say, but.

Packaged well. Okay. Easy to read. Um, shortish, so it's got sections and briefly the sections are about picking productivity systems. Yeah. And I think this is actually where it's strongest, where it talks about concepts in productivity. Yeah. And it does uns, he does unsettle and cut through some of the bullshit around productivity.

Like it is a kind of. It's a bit of a takedown. Yeah. Um, where it's like, oh, well you, it sells you all these ideas that somehow if you've got a system Yeah. Everything will be okay. Yeah. And it's like, you know, [00:33:00] it won't Yeah. It never will be. Yeah. You will never finish everything. Yeah. It doesn't mean you can't actually be quite productive.

So, I mean, in that sense, I, I remember why I liked it, that that vibe is good. Um, then it talks about the bullet journal. It talks about email, which is a really weird thing to be talking about in the middle of a book about analog productivity. Yeah. But I'll get to that. Okay. Um, it talks about goal setting.

Yeah. I'm not gonna talk so much about that. You had some good observation to make and then collaboration. Yeah. So what he's really advocating for in this book is a hybrid way of working, which I think is what we do anyway. So between tools, techniques, that sort of stuff. A little bit of this, a little bit of that.

Yeah. Yeah. And moving between digital and analog spaces. Yeah. And having, but he's point is that primarily locating the work? Activity in the analog space. Yeah. As much as possible. Yeah. And using the digital space to support that. Yeah. Because his point is that the analog space is you much harder to be interrupted.

Yeah. [00:34:00] And the analog creates more friction. He calls it constraint. Yeah. But I would call it friction. So if you, if you go down, there's a quote there, you might wanna read the quote out. Uh uh,

many times I'll have an idea. And in the process of heading to where my journal is, I think more about it and I realize that I either don't have the time to do it or it was a terrible idea in the first place, then I simply turn back around and I don't write it down. Yeah. So he sort of, his point there is that if you are, if you're forced to take a pen and a paper and you write the idea out longhand Yeah.

Then they're more inve. It's a more investment of time and effort, cognitive effort, physical effort, and therefore you'll kind of go, well, do I really wanna do this or not? Yeah. So if you're the sort of person who has a lot of ideas, I think there's something in that, right? Yeah. That you landed in a space that's got more friction.

Yeah. The so I'm just gonna go sideways for a second here. I would've agreed with that right up [00:35:00] until Gen ai. Right now I am not so sure. Oh. Say more. Okay. I shall Pulls out soapbox. Right. Go step up on it. Step up. So I like to talk and when I talk I I talky thinky sometimes. Yeah. Which means talk leads, thoughts follow along afterwards.

Mm. Rather than thinky talk where it's thoughts first and then talk about them. Right? Yeah. So sometimes, often I will sit and, like you and I, we, we do this a lot, but I've done, I do it with other people as well, is I, I have to hear myself talk through the idea in order to be able to figure out what I like and what I don't like.

And I'm good at being able to abandon something if it just doesn't quite feel right. I can, in the middle of a conversation, I can move away to kind of really refine what it is that I'm thinking about. And, um, and sometimes I don't get there, like last night's conversation, [00:36:00] I, I can still, we were tired to be fair.

Yeah. I'm still frustrated on, I'm pulling on the end of a thread and I know that there's something there. Yeah. But we talked about that, you know, that topic for about an hour or so last night, and as we were talking about it, I was thinking my way through it, and I was getting closer and closer to where I need to be.

Um, if I had to do that by myself with my bullet journal, or if I had to sit down and write that out, like, that's it. Now weigh, it's so relatively inefficient compared to having the conversation with Claude and having those kind of backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards.

Mm-hmm. Um, to get you to a point. Mm-hmm. Where then maybe you do pick up the pen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. So it this sort of ideate. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm not, I'm not saying that that he's wrong, but what I am saying is that I probably wouldn't get to the paper. Like very, yeah. I probably wouldn't get to the paper at all given that [00:37:00] because I haven't had the opportunity to really talk through the idea and the technology that we've got now allows us to do that.

Yeah. In a way that I wasn't, I had to, we had to go out for coffee, which isn't a bad thing. No, but you can't always get out for coffee. Yeah. Especially one o'clock in the morning. Especially one o'clock in the morning. Because sometimes I have conversations with chatty on my phone at one o'clock in the morning.

Yes. Do you do that? Yes.

I redesigned our policy processes centered operating procedures and protocol system last night, including invented a whole new numbering system. So just so that you know, our operations manual's about to change again. Okay. Yeah. That was good. That was one o'clock in the morning with chatty. Yeah. Yeah.

Cheer me mean chatty. Yeah, I know. That's so sad. Um, I like the idea that yes, y you can take a little bit of time that. Walking towards where your journal is sitting down and then committing to, okay, this is gonna take an hour or half an hour, or something like that to really Yeah. Figure it out. [00:38:00] Is the friction that stops you from doing it?

If it's a bad idea? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's good. But maybe that's step two rather than step one, is what you are saying that maybe you're having these conversations first with whoever. Digital person, human person. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think one point he does make here though is he's, there's, he's talking about a, a lack of friction can be really problematic.

So he, it's a quote here, I spent so much time managing things I was never going to do because it was easier to\ make the decision a problem for future me instead of just saying no to it now. And I think that's also about offers you get in the email and all that kind of stuff. And I, I really do think there's something in that, right?

So I would, I used to have this habit of, um, getting an email, doing a task, not wanting to make a decision about it. Not wanting to give the person pushback, not wanting, I just couldn't be bothered. Right. Mm. I could not be fucked. Mm. And so I was sort of like, well, I'll just push it to OmniFocus and then that's futur this problem.

Mm. [00:39:00] And she can have the emotional energy to say no to it or whatever it is. But it means that I was constantly incurring a kind of technical debt. Right? Mm. Because I'd have all these items sting in OmniFocus when I could have really just like, hardened up at the time and had like five minutes of thinking it through and, and, and said No, or I need more information or whatever.

Mm. But it was too easy to pass it over to OmniFocus. Mm. So I used to have about 170 things in there. Mm. And now I try hard to not let it get above 30. Yeah. 30 is too many for me. Um, so I think there's something in this kind of friction. And the other thing that Claude, and although you know that I see chatty now, I think, I think chatty is my work husband now.

I think I've swapped over. Mm-hmm. Um. I will get that to do the emotional work for me. Yeah. So take the iang go. I wanna say no to this, but I can't think of a good convincing way to say no. And it'll do, I've got a no bot. It says no for me. Finds the [00:40:00] reason I should say no. Sometimes I half articulated feeling, I'm like, oh yeah, that's why I don't wanna do it.

Yeah. That's the real reason. I don't wanna do it. And that sounds like a more plausible, socially acceptable reason. I don't wanna do it. And so then I'll put it through. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are we just offloading the hard work to theis? Yeah, we are. Okay. How do feel, feel about that to be said that like the levels of burnout and the amount of work that we've been doing with our brains, like, just 'cause we are not digging a hole with our muscles.

Yeah. Yeah. You dig a hole with your muscles, you quickly know when you've worn out your shoulders and you've worn out, you know? But I don't think we get that feedback with our brains and I think we've been wearing our brains out for a long time, actually. Okay. And I think offloading some of that cognitive burden again, I could get into my rant about, uh, I'll avoid it.

Um, anyway, so he talks about bullet journaling and he spends a lot of time on it. Okay. Like most of the book is bullet journal if I'm real and it's, it kind of traverses override of Carol's territory. But the value in it is that he's like, well, here's [00:41:00] the kind of principles of it and here's how I do it.

Exactly. Mm-hmm. Pardon me. He's got a coaching business of some sort. Mm-hmm. Like, so he is managing customers and he's managing projects. So unless your business exactly like that, you probably wouldn't wanna copy him. Yeah. But there's always value in seeing how someone else does it. Right? Yep. And I remember the first time I read it, that's where I was like, oh, there's bullet journal thing is more than just writing your thoughts and feelings down.

It's not really journaling. Yeah. This is actually a productivity system. Yeah. Um, so there's a couple things to pull out there from it. He's like, well, if you don't wanna number all the pages, if that's your, if that's your barrier to getting started. And he's like, just color the corner of every 10th page.

Oh yeah. I thought. Fine. Sure. But I just buy the pre-formatted ones and I feel no shame. But, you know, like, that's interesting. And I hadn't really thought about how color coding might work as you flick through, you know? Yeah. Um, so reading that again, I thought, oh, maybe I'll get a highlighter in, you know, some of the collections I could just highlight.

Yeah. You see them really quickly. I hadn't [00:42:00] really thought about color for a bit. I use washy tape. Yeah. Like on the edge of the page. Yes. So when I move months, so I step, I, I take a piece of washy tape, maybe an inch long or so. Mm. And I fold half of it over one side of the page and half of it over the other side of the page.

Like a little tab? Like a little tab, and then I step 'em down. Oh, like little tabs on it. Yeah. So the one at the top is January green binder. Yeah. The second one is February, the next one is March. And, and of course they through the thickness of the book as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sort of thing. Like that's useful.

That's sort of like a useful quick way of being able to. I mean, I use it around months, but you could do it for all sorts of things. I imagine you could have some sort of signal the first Yeah. System. Yeah. Like you'd have a different type. This is a lot of washy tape. Yeah. Like if you wanna go shopping for washy tape Yeah.

You can be enabled in that. Yeah. That's all I'm saying. These cat washy tape. I was about to say, I've got some cat washy tape. The one I use I tend to use is got zebra stripes. It's like black and white, but you know. Cute. Yeah. Yeah. I might start doing the washy [00:43:00] tape. Um, he talks a lot about short sentences only, like he goes on it quite a bit.

Mm-hmm. Um, and about how to write tasks with verbs and stuff. So all of that we already knew. Yeah. Um, he has this, um, this post-it note, so he's got like a, a bullet journal page and then he'll put a post-it note. Like it's a, a page for the day, right? Yeah. So a daily log. Yeah. So in the bullet journal system, a daily log is just you write down everything that's happening that day.

Tasks have a little bullet. Yeah. Hence bullet journal, which you put across through when it's done. Notes just have a line and events have like a, like a open circle, whatever you wanna do, whatever annotations you wanna do. He puts a post-it note in the middle of the page. Yes. And he writes, like, he writes some tasks on there that he, he sort of, he, I think what he does is he tries to make it every effort not to land things in there.

Yeah. So he, he write, if it's just a note, he's talking on the phone or something like that and he wants to write it down. He just writes it on this post-it note and then he chucks it away. So you end up with [00:44:00] less sort of Gump in your bullet journal. 'cause I'll quite often have it open and I'll just like.

Write something if someone's talking to me or you know, I just write all sorts of shit in there that like, has no, like, come back later and just looks like obscure scribbles. I can't even remember what I was talking about unless, yes, you're required to come back later. Years later. Yes. And you are asked by someone to recall the content of that meeting.

Sure. Which we won't talk about why that might have had to happen. No. But, but, but, but the idea of just taking notes, I, so I have, um, so my version of that is I took notes along those lines with a client notes. Yeah. And then the client said, oh no, we're not gonna, we're not gonna move ahead with that thing.

Yeah. And then the client came back a little bit later and they said, yes, now we're back and we're gonna move ahead with that thing again. Oh, right. And you had those notes and I still had those old notes, which you might've chucked away if you'd done the post-it note. Yeah. Right. Like if that, if I'd just had it on a [00:45:00] piece of paper or something like that.

And then that client had said. Oh, no, we're not gonna go ahead with this thing. I just would've thrown 'em in the bin and yeah, there would've been no record whatsoever. But now I was able to go back to that and I, oh yeah. Last time we talked about this, this, and this. My notes kind of say these sorts of things.

Yeah. And these things still true. Yeah. Um, and Okay. Yeah, so, and I actually find Chatty's really good at interpreting my bullet journal notes. Like it can read my, the shittiest version of my handwriting. I have Nice handwriting. Yes. But I have some, I have a shitty version of it as well when I'm an re And it can read both.

Yeah. Like it's not fussy. Never judges. Yeah. Yeah. Good work. Husband doesn't judge and chatty doesn't judge, but you are right. So like he seems to, I think his general thing is you shouldn't, it shouldn't be writing it down unless it's got high value. Yeah. And he is using it as like a constantly to winow out work to sort of bleed off excess work or excess thoughts, I suppose.

Yeah. So that's one way he does it. So I take that under advisement if that's something you wanted to do. He talks a little bit about using a bullet journal as a [00:46:00] CRM. It, CRM stands for customer relationship management. Right. Um, and the method that he outlines there, I, I read it and I'm like, oh, it doesn't really make sense to me, but I'm sure it makes sense to him.

Mm-hmm. But I think that I've gone through many times trying to do some sort of CRM because I just know a lot of people and they'll come back to me like, you've got 90 clients, you know, keeping track of what's of concern to whom. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Is kind of hard. So I think there is potential for a bullet journal to be.

In that CRM process, perhaps as a collection or something like that. Yeah. I was working, not working with, I was talking to a friend of mine who is an architect about bullet journal and why I thought that the bullet journal was gonna be really useful for her. Yeah. And, and so I was explaining the concept of concept of the index Yeah.

And collections and that sort of stuff. And I'm saying like, you know, it makes sense that you would have a collection per per project that you're working on. Mm. And then she went on to talk about the [00:47:00] fact that, that sometimes you end up with a trades person or someone, a consultant, not something like that.

Yeah. Who's working across jobs. Right. And so you kind of need to keep track of the person, not the job. Yeah. And so that really got me thinking about the way in which we construct our indexes. Right? Yeah. Right. Because my immediate thought was by job. You do have to keep track of people Yeah. As well as part of that, the ongoing work you've got with people.

Yeah. Yeah. So sometimes, I don't know, I'm gonna make this name up like John, right. John's working on house A, but John's also working on house C. Yeah. Yeah. But you need to keep track of John. Yeah. The Johns of all of this. Yeah. Yeah. Have I paid John? Yeah. Yeah. What's next for John? Yeah. Like I, your index has to reflect that.

Yeah. Maybe that's what he was talking about in the C RM bit. I dunno. I've done that actually. I've done that from um, Lindsay and Simon who report to me, like my team. So I've got a Lindsay page and a Simon page, and I'll often sort of jot notes. I'm talking [00:48:00] to them and they're in the index and then they get threaded.

Mm-hmm. So the threading for those of you who haven't done that is when you know you might be writing something about someone on a page and then 20 pages you run outta that page, eventually 20 and, but you've put other stuff in there and you've like 20 pages ahead. So you just give it the same name, index it in the same spot.

So you can skip from page to page throughout the bullet journal. Yep. It's one of its most useful features is threading. So if you've got a person that you deal with consistently, I think they could be an ongoing collection Yeah. In a bullet journal. Um, he had this sort of columns and everything. Okay. And anyway, and he has, you know, he's got the, one of the good things about the book is it's got lots of pictures of his bullet journals Yeah.

And annotated with arrows and stuff about why it does stuff. I dunno, I just feel as though digital's the way to go for this stuff. Right. So it's on your phone, it's in your laptop, it's like kind of wherever you're doing work. Yeah, I think hybrid's the way to go though, don't you? For, for CRM stuff? I don't know.

No. 'cause you capture so much stuff. You occasionally have phone calls, [00:49:00] but most of the stuff that we deal with, like I'm 75 emails deep about a thing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like all of that gets captured in a CRM package somewhere. Well, you've got it very neatly in our backend, um, where, you know, you've got the client numbers and they kind of like track.

I mean, I kind of navigate it and it's, I don't have to ask you that many questions about it 'cause it makes sense. Mm-hmm. And if you click on a person, it kind of clicks on a, like, you know, things are tracked through the system. So, and you can search by, you can search by client number and in that contacts database, you can search by client number If you can't even remember who it was.

Like, let's say, you know, it was someone we'd never met before and we met a lot of people, you can go, oh, what was that client number again? Searching that. And it'll pop it up and it'll say it's. Sam Smith or whoever it was, we used Google for our backend. Yeah, yeah. Um, and I was teaching Young Jack how to use Gemini.

I was like, Ooh, I haven't used Gemini. Got very excited about it. Oh God. But I mean, the good thing about Gemini [00:50:00] integration with Google Docs is you can find things across multiple documents and stuff. Yeah. Like more subtly. I dunno why Apple doesn't bring that in with its search, you know, like Apple Intelligence maybe.

Maybe. It's not like it hasn't happened. And someone said to me the other day that they reckon the reason Apple Intelligence hasn't happened is that they can't make it a hundred percent accurate and reliable. Okay. Because L Ls aren't large language models are not, they're probabilistic. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

They're not gonna give you the same answer twice. Yeah. So, you know, and apple's like, well if you want to get your calendar to figure something out, you don't want Apple to fuck up your calendar because then it'll, all the story will just be about, yeah, apple fucking up your calendar. Right? Yeah. So they're like kind of risk adverse around that.

Yeah. Yeah. So whereas Google don't care. No messy hair don't care, that's Google. He does have a interesting critique of getting things done Oh, yes. Throughout the book. Um, and so for those of you who haven't sort of read David Allen, though, I'm guessing most people [00:51:00] in this PO probably have had some touch with him.

David Allen's main thing is he talks about the mind is for having ideas not holding them. Yeah. And, um, and Curtis McHale says, no good ideas will stick and they'll keep reoccurring to you so you don't have to worry so much about the capture. Part of the getting things done is his call, and my friend Will does this, there's an episode we've got Mackin where he talks about the meat computer.

That's where I get the, the idea of the brain is a meat computer, but he, he never writes notes on it. Like it freaks me out having a meeting with Will because he doesn't write any notes. And I'm like, you'll never remember anything. He goes, oh, I remember the most important things. And he does. Maybe that's, I would misremember, I would miss.

No way. But he, Curtis says the stuff that's important to you will keep resurfacing in your brain. It'll keep nagging at you and jumping on you. And at some point you write it down, the rest of the stuff is just junk, he says. So yeah. Anyway, take that under advisement. Um, the other thing I think he has that some people [00:52:00] enjoy, particularly Susan, if you're listening, hi Susan.

Hi Susan. He has this whole thing about how it's okay to suck at email and and that you can never finish an inbox. Like inbox zero he says is a fool's errand. And he said the thing about about email is you shouldn't treat it like a task that gets done. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm doing my email. You should treat it like a tool.

Mm-hmm. And one of the things is he says, well, an email is basically a list of what everyone else thinks is important for that day. Yeah. Which is true. Yeah. And then not everyone deserves a response. Yeah. And that you can just delete it or ignore it. And I think ignoring my responsibility nerve is easier said than done.

Yeah. But, but he's got a point there. You know, you can just, not an like, I, like how many academics do you know? And senior managers for that matter, who just frigging ignore email. Yeah. I hate it because I feel like they're letting the side down and the rest of us have to be in the email salt mines. Yeah.

And it's like setting yourself above everyone else. I get real communist about it. Like, how dare you. Yeah. [00:53:00] Um, but you know, as he says, when you're running a small business, like you don't have to everyone who reach out, out to you with a special offer, let me tell you, when you have a podcast mm-hmm. I mean I, Brian said, you know, it wasn't, it was hard to find an email, but clearly people form my ingrid me bend.net email.

Mm. Because they frigging write to that all the time. I've got a guest for you. I've got a special offer. Yeah. If you're listening. Yeah. Because I know you're not actually listening to the pod. Yeah. If you're listening, don't write to me about those things. I just delete them. Yeah. I don't give you the even, I don't know.

I'm not interested. Yeah. I don't give you any energy at all. I've learned how to do that over time. Is just ignore the special offers we have. We have a few email addresses for our business. Some of them super secret and the spams have found 'em. Yeah. Right. And I dunno how they found 'em. Somehow. It'll always get out.

Yeah. He's got this interesting take on email. He says that before you answer email, write down the ones you'll respond to. Oh yeah. I think that's quite, again, it's using [00:54:00] the friction of the paper to filter the email inbox. Yeah. Like if you make a note of the ones you're gonna respond to and just respond to those ones.

Yeah. It's adding a friction element in, I think it's an interesting thing to do. But he just talks generally about email and the kind of promise of inbox zero and everything, and he says, and productivity systems generally in what they promise. And he says the failure of so many systems is that they subtly convince you that you can get it all done.

If you manage your time better, you won't, you can't get it all done. You'll never be able to get it all done. And, and he talks about. You know, he talks about that too in the context of goal settings. Mm-hmm. Like, he's like, well, what do you prioritize? And like we could borrow for Australia about goals.

Mm-hmm. And we have. Mm-hmm. But there's one thing that he talks about the idea of anti goals. Mm-hmm. And he is like, what do you want your days never to look like? So he says, my worst possible day looks like meetings with non coaching opportunities. A calendar I'm not in control of. No big blocks of time aside from reading, thinking, and writing, travel [00:55:00] without my family.

And no time for exercise. Yeah. So, um, I think that sort of sense of having maybe a collection with Antigo in it. Yeah. And like when something happens, you're just like, this is shitty. Yeah. I don't wanna do this anymore. Write it down. It's an antigo. And how do you maybe get that out of your life? Yeah, yeah.

You know, it's hard, but, you know, uh, until you write it down, name it to tame it as my therapist says. Yes. Um, the rest of it's just about Kanban and Trello and we won't talk about that. I think we'll save that discussion because we finished the book on project management for researchers. Yes. With Pat Thompson, Helen Cara, Amy Grant, and myself.

Uh, and that was deeply satisfying to get that into publisher. Between me and Chatty G there is one functional, very good copy editor. Yeah. Both of us are download. No good. No bueno. But between us, we catch it and you know, the editor wrote back and said, oh, this is a really good, one of the cleanest manuscripts I've ever seen.

I'm like, that has never happened before. Wow. I tell a lie. It happened once [00:56:00] before, but Catherine. Catherine Firth did it. Yeah. So of course she did it perfectly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Because she would, 'cause she's a super intelligent being. Um, but that's the first time I've ever had that come back. I felt so proud of myself.

Oh. I mean, they still had queries, but they were just general ones. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so that's analog productivity. So I'm glad I went through that. 'cause I just don't think you should read it, Jason. I don't think you need to. I think you've got views and you've transcended beyond needing it. But for those of you who are thinking about, particularly if you're thinking about starting a bullet journal, you're a bit stuck about where to start.

I think it's a good compliment to write a Carol's book. I, I, I'm stuck on the email thing. Sorry. Sorry. Can we talk about this for a bit? You can have the feelings. I have, I have got the feelings. Cool. I'm, I'm gonna talk about a friend of mine who has sadly passed on now. Mm. Um, but Carl, if you're listening Mm.

Um, uh, I remember he used to work at Telstra and I remember. [00:57:00] Being in his like cubicle area space. One afternoon. Don't ask me why I was there. I should have been probably doing something else. But anyway, I was, I was visiting Carl and a guy came up and said, did you get my email? Oh, yeah. Because Carl had obviously not responded, not responded to this email.

And Carl looked at him and said, did you send it? And the guy goes, yes. And he said, then I got it. And I was like, wow. Boundaries. Yeah. Right. Um, and it makes me think, right, I am, I have to respond to email. Me too. I have to go, like, you write me an email until it gets to the point where it's ridiculous.

Where no, no, you hang up first. No, you hang up first. Like, and, but it's like, I got an email today. I wrote an email yesterday, sent something off to a client. Um, they wrote back today saying, thanks very much, this is awesome. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm gonna do all this sort of stuff and all the rest of it.

The conversation can end at that email. Yes. And the only reason I didn't write [00:58:00] back to her is 'cause we had to get in the car and come here. Yeah. Right. But I feel as though that conversation is still an open loop for me. Oh, email, tennis. And I just wanna, and volley back to you, I just wanna, I just wanna write back to you, to them and go like, you're welcome.

You know, we're really looking forward to working with you. Does not add any value to that conversation whatsoever? I think it does though. Can I take issue? I'm just worried that our client will, I, I notice that you do that. Oh, okay. And I always look and go, Jason is better at this than me. Oh, Brett, Jason animates it, it feels very present.

And when I go to client engagements and, and I say, turn up, I'm like, what am I doing again? And they're like, they look at me like, and so it's all right. Jason's got me. He's briefed me. Like I just, I'm just having a moment. And then, and they say to me invariably, oh, Jason's so great to deal with. He's always got the thing that you need.

So I would say don't stop believing. Okay. Okay. Keep on doing that. Okay. So I think you add a personal touch to it. Alright. Even if it takes some sort of emotional kind of Yeah. I just, I can't help myself. It's like I [00:59:00] just have to say it's an open loop. Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah. So I, I desperately want to be able to go, I, I'm gonna like, that does not require a response.

Yeah. Like, that's perfectly safe to leave that alone Yeah. From this point forward. But I just feel as though people would feel bad if I didn't write back. Well, I, I look from the point of view as a watcher. Yeah. I think it humanizes you in a nice way. Okay. And I look at it and go, I should not be so Kurt and rude.

Okay. That's what I think. Okay. Because I'm very much dah, dah. I like, I can't even be bothered writing my name. I just put I at the end of it. 'cause I'm like, I'm done now. Yeah, yeah. I've got a few one line emails from you, like okay, copy. Like I'm usually busting through it at that point. Yeah. I do have this mental picture of you just going like, oh, I've gotta do this thing.

Uh, he'll, he'll be okay. Send, I've got another colleague we know, know each other well enough. [01:00:00] Yeah. I've got another colleague who has as brief an email style as me and like we are in these cryptic, like, we might as well be texting each other. Are you okay? You know, and he's like, same as me. We are like the same.

Okay. Yeah. So when I get them from him, I'm like, oh, this looks like a little bit curt. Um, do you need to do a quick Google image search of the Bristol stool She chart so that I do Actually you need to give it a Yeah, because we've only got about 15 minutes here, don't we? We do. And yeah. Um, but I still wanna end it up.

Bristol stool chart, Bristol stool chart for those listening at home who have never listened to on the Reg podcast before and who don't know what the Bristol stool chart is. Be warned. That's it. Google it. Google it. Google this image. Be prepared at your own risk. That's all I'm saying. It's the different types of poops.

Yes. Somebody who I won't name had a colonoscopy recently. Oh. And said to me that their colonoscopy person said, oh, bloody bissell stool such [01:01:00] stool chart. I'm so stick of it. Um, and I'm like, well, I suppose you would be if you're a gastroenterological. I think, um, soft blobs with clear cut edges past easily.

Type five. Type five Mm okay. Mm. Google it for images of what that might look like. There you go. Type five Or the best? Yeah. Type five. Google the crystal still chart. Alright. Um, what we've been reading, you've been doing reading, you actually wrote to me the other day and said that you are reading, reading.

Really getting into books in the morning. Yes. Writing, reading lots of stuff. And you called out my my challenge that I gave where I will fly wherever I'm flying to do work. Return trip, I'll pick up an airport book and I will read that airport book. So, um, I'm currently working my way through Adam Grant's book.

I'm not sure if I talked about this in the last podcast. I can't quite remember. You mentioned it briefly. Hidden Potential is the name of the book. I'm nearly through it. I've really enjoyed it. And then there was that bit that I read out to you last night. Yes. I mean [01:02:00] about how career success can be gate kept by managers and where the incentives lie.

And so hot take in most hierarchies, the manager is not incentivized to help you get ahead. I'll give a deeper review next time we record, but I mean, that little piece that just, that nugget there about two thirds of the way through the book really hit home for me. So why are managers not incentivized to help you get ahead?

'cause it's not in their interest to Yeah. It's not in their interest. So, because you'll get promoted and go somewhere else and you won't be doing it for them anymore. Yeah. Or yeah. If you're a high performer or they're threatened. So ego is threatened. Mm-hmm. Or if your idea seems okay. Yeah. But then turns out later to be shit.

Yeah. Then their judgment gets called into, called into question. Called into question. Right. So if the. If the least risky approach is not to support an idea in case it's wrong or in case it makes me look bad, um, and there's no consequences from that. Mm. Like immediate consequences from that. Yeah. [01:03:00] Why would you put your, why would you risk your neck?

Yeah. Well, yeah. I like to think of myself as not that kind of manager. Yeah, me too. Right. But, and so the, the other thing to think about is that the person above them has the same thoughts about the person below them. Right. Right. So the whole organization just sort of squashes innovation. Yeah. Yeah. And so you end up with bloated bureaucracies and nothing going anywhere and, and lots of bullshit jobs.

Yes. Do, did someone say university? I wouldn't know anything about that. No. I have a great boss though, say, yeah. Yeah. She was angry with me the other day. Oh, really? Yes. Rightly so. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Excellent. And it's not Do tell, oh. Let me just say, I rang her up. I'm like, I know you're in an airport lounge.

She's like, yes, I, I know you're about to go, you know, and do your thing, but like, I did this thing. And she's like, Inga. I'm like, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to narrator. Yes, she did.[01:04:00] 

So it's, it's good when you've got a boss who can, you know Yeah. Do that and you don't feel threatened by it. Yeah. You know, like it told me what a good boss she was that I could, you know, yeah. I could piss her off. And she was pissed off with the consequences of the action, but not the, yeah. Not at me. If that makes any sense.

I appreciate you, Anne. Yeah. I, I, um, professor Claire Mackin, was my boss for a little while, uh, over COVID, in fact. Mm. Um, tough time. Yeah. Really good boss. Mm. Um, person who did not Gate Keep, was prepared to support encouraged people to do things step outside of their lane if it was a good idea to try and get support elsewhere in the organization.

That sort of stuff. Did the, did the institution give her the arse and be mean to her, or, oh, no. No. She's like, she just continued to move onwards, onwards and upwards, so. Well, good. I'm glad to see good people get ahead. It's not always the case, you know, sometimes, sometimes the shortest way to get, you know, the arse is no two awesome things.

Or Be an awesome boss. Yeah. No golden career in terms [01:05:00] of opportunities and stuff like that. Like That's good. Very high performer though. Yeah. Well, one of those creatures. Yes. Not, not of us. Earthly creatures. Yes. Um, big shout out to Zoe Bowman. Yes. Hi, Zoe. Who gave me a book called Monsters. What do we do about great art by bad people?

Which I loved Ate it up like delicious yogurt. Yeah. So it's all about like, can you still like Picasso? 'cause he was objectively an asshole. Mm-hmm. Like beat his wives, you know? Yeah. Hemingway saying, you know, Roman Polansky raping a young girl, young, you know, David Bowie sleeping with minors. I didn't even know that.

Oh really? I did not know that I had this whole thing on Wagner, you know, I'm like, wow. He was anti-Semitic. Like, it was just the whole, like, the whole book was like, oh my God. Um, and I wanted this book to give me answers. Right. But it doesn't, it denies you answers, but what it does is it dwells in all the ambiguity of it in this really.

It's a really personal way that she talks about it. [01:06:00] I haven't clear de raise this author, I think I'm pretty sure. Um, and then, yeah, so thank you Zoe for lending me that. And I kept texting Zoe, you know, like, I want answers from this book. And she's like, yeah, it doesn't give it to you. Does. I'm like, oh, oh man.

Like most people can't see the look on my face usually, but now they can. Yeah. Like it just smacks to me of that whole kind of critical crowd. Right? Yeah. You know, it's like power is the problem. And like, you should look at this in various forms of power and all sorts of things, you know, and, and so you turn around to them and you say, well, what do we do about it?

And they go, we've got no answers. Yeah. And I'm like, it's a little bit like that. Fuck yeah. No. Like that is just, ah, some things don't have good answers and oh, it's been nuts. But they don't even try sometimes. Yeah. It's just like, oh no, that shit, that's capitalism. Okay. Yeah. Great help. What's your alternative?

Yeah. Yeah. Help me out here. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause I got like, we're all in this together. Yeah, exactly. But they like, no, you can't do that. I would also big shout out [01:07:00] to, I'm nowhere on the clock here. Hard fork. Latest one of the Hard fork episodes recently. Um, the, it's the episode about Trump makes an iPhone or something if you're looking it up.

And it's got an interview with these people from Mechanize, which is an AI startup, which are unapologetic. We wanna automate all work and get rid of wages like they're just saying it. Okay. And these people are. Idiots. Right. And I listened to it on the way driving here and I was just yelling. I was yelling, yeah.

At the radio. And then they had an actress from Megan 2.0 I think. Alison Winter, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Anyway, and she like knows nothing about I AI really, but she's read a bunch of stuff in order to get into character and was far more intelligently is mechanized guys. It was really just this moment, we were talking about that on the pod last time about, you know, if AI wasn't being made by the bros Yeah.

We probably wouldn't be so uncomfortable about it, but it is. Yeah. And they are dickhead. Yeah. Yeah. Like they had this whole thing about universal, but he income. I'm like, no one's doing that. Yeah. [01:08:00] Then they're like, oh, well countries have mineral resources and they'll just portion those mineral resources up.

And I'm like, when? Have they ever done that equally? Yeah. Oh. They'll have sovereign wealth funds. Okay, so then like, where does your capitalism in fit into that? Like if I'm just being provided services by myself and Wealth Fund, where have I got the money to buy the mass produced goods? Anyway, it was just, it was very irritating.

If you wanna be irritated, go and listen to that. Yes. Not really. Not really ring us home. All right. So we're, uh, last little bit. We've got eight minutes to go. Yeah. Uh, is a two minute tip section. So this segment is in honor of David Allen and his classic Getting Things Done book, although critique notwithstanding from Chris Sure.

Above, um, Alan's argues that if a task will take less than two minutes to complete, you should do it then and there, uh, because we'll take longer than two minutes to capture it in your task system schedule. Time to do it, market is complete, yada yada, yada. But really this is our opportunity just to kind of things that we've found that.

Acts that make our [01:09:00] lives a little bit better. Um, and so that's what we do. We share these with you. We keep it right to the end of the episode. Yeah. Because why would you do it at the start? Losers? Losers, losers. Those podcasts. Maybe the Top Rated Productivity podcast does that at the start. Yeah. But we are not the top rated productivity podcast, so why would we do that?

That's right. We can critique from the side quite safely. So anyway my two minute tip for this episode is I'm gonna lean back on the conversation that we had in the last episode about Ann Law Lakos book Yes. Called Tiny Experiments. Yes. And I talked a little bit about procrastination. Yes. And in that little, that little talk, I talked about the role of Head, heart, and Hand.

Yeah. As part of that. So I have been using that technique Oh. Since the last podcast. Yeah. So when I'm finding myself. Procrastinating around a thing. I would get my bridge out. Three columns. Oh, yes. Head hut. Why in each of those areas. Oh, what, like, what's really holding me back here? Right. And that whole externalizing the stuff, putting it down on a piece of paper.

Yeah. Uh, [01:10:00] and it's like, oh, okay. I really just, like, I'm just not into that today. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well then if I'm not into that, will I ever be into this? Yeah. That, like, that starts, it starts a chain of questions. Right. And then sometimes it's just easier just to go, oh, fuck, I'll just do it now. All right, fine.

Yeah. Right. And you do it 1, 2, 3, go. 1, 2, 3, go. And then you do it, and then you're done. Yes. Um, so if you've not tried that, um, well worth, well worth trying it. Write down three columns in a book. Head, heart, and hand. Head. Is it logical? Is it an illogical thing that you're doing? Mm-hmm. Like, you know, um, heart, how do you feel about this hand?

Do you have the kind of right sort of resources available? Mm-hmm. You can, you've got the skills to be able to do it. And sometimes you don't start something 'cause you don't feel as though you've got the skills to be able to do that. Yeah. So what do you need to do to get the skills? Yeah. Do you buy it in or do you build it?

Like, do you learn the skills or do you rent someone else to do it for you? So if that's a collection over time, you might sort of start to see patterns. [01:11:00] Mm. Could especially around feelings. Yeah. Towards different tasks. Yeah. Yes. That sounds like a really good two minutes here. You have to do it in two minutes though.

Like, don't mess around with this thing. Otherwise you spiral into Oh, okay. Analysis. Righto. Which is bad. Just capture it. Yeah. That's it. Um, I've got one. Yeah. Uh, big shout out to Apple Notes, which has become my new database of choice I've given up. I, I, I use obsidian to do my writing and store my writing, my things that I write.

Mm-hmm. Um, but I don't use it now any longer to store web pages or notes. I do everything in Apple Notes. Okay. Right. I've gone back to Apple Notes. , I did know that the Long Press on the Apple Notes icon. Mm-hmm. Gives you a scan Yes. Option. Yep. 'cause I was having to do some documents the other day.

Yes. What I didn't realize is I accidentally found out it can automatically do, um, speech to text. Yes. Like you can just talk at it good enough and it will Oh, it's really good. Oh. So if you open a note, tap anywhere in the [01:12:00] note. Yep. And down on the keyboard that appears right? Yeah. Appears a keyboard. Just like hit the little microphone.

Yeah. Talk. Yeah. And your words will appear as text. Okay. Which is really bloody handy when you've like, got a note to self, you're on the run, blah, blah, blah. So handy. And you can even do things like line break, end sentence. Yeah. And it does like full stops and everything. It's great. Okay. Apple notes, quiet achiever.

Okay. Of the Apple universe. Never change Apple notes because you freaking awesome. Unless you get better. Unless you get better. Yes. Yeah. With Apple intelligence or something. Not holding breath. Um. That's it. Oh my God. We landed it. I know. I told you I was coming. Um, uh, thanks for listening, everybody. Uh, we love it.

Um, we love reviews. I'm looking at Inca as she desperately looks to me. Oh my God. Yeah. See whether or not we've got anymore. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. Yep. Um, if you leave a review on Apple Podcast, we promised to read it out. You know, we do promise 3, [01:13:00] 2, 2, 1. I'm just trying to find, scrolling through. Just scroll down on your podcast player and then just get to typing.

Right. Um, while you're there, give us a review. Five stars only, please. Um, I joke about that in our workshops a lot. Sometimes it's like time for people to review our workshop and it's like five stars only best Uber driver anyway. And I, there's no new reviews. There's no new reviews. That's disappointing.

Come on people. You can do it. Five stars on, we believe you. Yeah. Um, if you want your question featured on the show's mail back, you can leave us a voice message at www.speakpike.com/thesis whisperer. Or you can email us at our hard to find podcast email address pod at on the reg team.com. Uh, I'm having a break from socials, although I'm a little bit on the LinkedIns at the moment.

You started a LinkedIn page for us? I did. I'll put it in the footer. Okay. 'cause I haven't done that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, uh, and I'm starting to put stuff on that LinkedIn page and yeah, [01:14:00] I sort of, I haven't quite figured it out. They're fun updates. I like them. I I'm not, you're like, I've been traveling around.

Bit of a selfie of you in front of some building. Yeah, I like it. Okay. Yeah. Um, so you can, you can find me there, but pretty much nowhere else. Uh, in fact, I got spammed, um, that someone who's been trying to hack my Facebook. Really, um, page, I haven't looked at Facebook for five years. Yeah. And so I went in yesterday to change all the passwords and do all that sort of stuff.

Mm-hmm. Because I thought no gender theft. Not a good thing. No. And then I scrolled in Facebook and I'm like, there are people still here. I know. I actually have a lot of friends who actually still use it. And then they'll have a party and, and go, why did you invite me to the party? And they're like, oh, I forget the, you know, we sent you an invite.

I'm like, on Facebook. They're like, yeah. And I'm like, don't do that. Text me. Yeah. Thank you. Or ring me Boomer. Boomer Call Boomer. Call me. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you can find Inga, um, at, as at Thesis Whisper. Pretty much everywhere. Yeah. I don't say very much anymore, don't you? No. You just like this [01:15:00] kind of presence.

I'm on the internet. I'm noting presence. I mean, and I like, I don't look at, I maybe look at Blue Sky once a week. Okay. I doom scroll on threads. Is social, are we saying that social media is dead? I reckon it is. I reckon it's pretty dead. Well, to me it's dead. I'm like, I just can't be bothered anymore. Like, nothing I say goes, go anywhere.

I never, no one sees it. So you're never having a conversation. Yeah. What's the point? Yeah, it's a cons. They want it to be consumption. It's like Yeah. Streaming. Really. Yeah. Yeah. So if you speak Pipers, we'll talk back at you. Yeah. Like we can, why podcasts the best. We can have a con, we can have a convers conversation.

People have, uh, more conversation through the pod than any other form of media. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of the pod, it costs us about a thousand bucks a year to produce this podcast. Uh, if you wanna support our work, you can sign up to the Writing the Bust member for just $2 a month via the, on the Reg Cofi site.

And the link will be in the show notes. So also, along with a link to our newsletter, along with a link to our newsletter because someone asked, but that's not in the show notes, but [01:16:00] I just realized it's not there. But yes. And I promised to put it in there, didn't I? Yeah's. All right. We'll get there eventually.

I ha So for the subscribers, for the cofi. Yes. What I've been doing is taking the, uh, podcast episode notes building a mind map out of all of that. Oh yes. And then sending it to the subscribers. Are you as just another way of them being able to access the pop, access the pop. Keep a record of what we talked about on this one.

Yeah. As a, as a mind map. If you subscribe, you can get the next one Right, right. As well. Yeah. So, which reminds me, we just launched the last episode just the other day, so I need to do that. Do and send it off. Thank you. And we do a two minute tips newsletter every two weeks. Yep. Which I've been bad at sending, but I am back on.

So if you've got a friend who for some really weird reason, just doesn't like podcasts Yeah. Weirdos. Yep. You can just subscribe, which is in the footer. Yep. And then you can forward that and it's got like little links or. [01:17:00] Two things to think about. Two things to do. It's short, two things to try. Yeah. So that's the productivity goodness in the form non pod, like in a pill form, rather than experience the full pod.

Yeah. All right. Exactly. Ing, it's been a pleasure being here at, uh, this is a studio podcast studio. We're one minute over time. Thank you for letting us stay one minute. Thank you, Patrick. We appreciate you Patrick. Have, um, it's been a pleasure. Uh, we should do this again. Yeah, it's fun. We sound good. All right.

Bye Bye.