S6. Ep 13. Two Gays and the Gay Surrogacy

Ever tried to keep up with a drag queen during Pride weekend? Benji did, and let's just say he had to sneak in soda water breaks amidst the kaleidoscope of London's bustling LGBTQ+ scene. Join us as we laugh at Benji's misadventures, from frigid encounters with Britain's notorious weather to humorous swipes at our own dating profiles. Our latest escapades take a Broadway twist as we ponder the cultural phenomena like the West End's "Frozen," setting the stage for a chat as lively as a Clapham night out.

On the journey from vibrant city life to the more serene family-friendly locales, we've got a tale that could give rom-com writers a run for their money. Imagine meeting your future spouse during a pandemic quiz night, only to find yourself in a Vegas wedding whirlwind post-birthday celebration. Add the amusing mix-up of dating two best friends simultaneously and sprinkle some heartfelt lessons on respectful communication, and you've got a love story that’s as unpredictable as it is charming. Our special guest joins us to share their unique insights into the world of same-gendered family building, adding depth and warmth to our conversation.

Navigating surrogacy and sperm donation is anything but straightforward, and we take you through the highs and lows of the process. With our guest sharing their personal journey, we explore the legal, emotional, and sometimes awkward paths of surrogacy in England, where commercial surrogacy remains a taboo. From selecting egg donors to the logistical hurdles across countries, each step brings its own set of challenges and joys. As the excitement builds towards the anticipation of twins, we celebrate the resilience and love that define the path to family-building for LGBTQ+ couples.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:18

Hello and welcome to my big gay podcast with me, Benji.

Speaker 2 0:22

Brad, giving you the life, the loves and lols of living in London. Two gays, one city. What could possibly go wrong? Now, I might be going a bit wrong today because you look a bit stressed, Benji.

Speaker 1 0:36

You're a horrible, horrible human. There was me thinking I think I've pulled this off today with the concealer, but no, I do feel rough.

Speaker 2 0:42

The bags are real.

Speaker 1 0:43

The baggage is real. One's under my eyes, the emotional baggage, all of it. It's real.

Speaker 2 0:49

What's going on?

Speaker 1 0:50

Just a really heavy weekend. I've just come back from doing another Pride and I tell you what drag queens don't sleep. I don't know how they do it. It is constant with the alcohol.

Speaker 2 1:05

Next club, another, literally the whole, the whole shabam. But um, and were you trying to keep up because we know you're a lightweight? So why are you doing that to yourself? I?

Speaker 1 1:08

was literally the one at the back, like skip hopping, trying to catch up with him. Yes, that was me. Um, I just can't do it. It even got to the point where I was like don't worry, I'll get these drinks, and I was sneaky ordering myself just soda water oh, clever yeah, I mean, I did get caught out once, but it was fine fine.

Speaker 2 1:22

How do drag queens do that?

Speaker 1 1:23

I don't know. I feel like they're completely nocturnal by this point. Yeah, so that is their time clock, and they are just 80% alcohol.

Speaker 2 1:30

That's goals.

Speaker 1 1:31

That's goals 80% alcohol, 20% Botox.

Speaker 2 1:35

Definitely goals, definitely goals. You can't afford that, honey, and I see you've got a little suitcase in the studio with you today. You leaving again.

Speaker 1 1:44

I am. I've had enough.

Speaker 2 1:45

I'm off just the end of the podcast it's the end of the podcast. Thank, you so much for listening. Like I said, that's all.

Speaker 1 1:49

We've got time from here no, I'm off, but not for too long, don't worry. I'll be back in a week or so. But yeah, back off the jersey for a bit another gig, another club, another two games, no sleep, no sleep. Wow, yeah, same drag queens as well they're all. They're all sprightly and ready for it. I'm like you know what. I could postpone it a week and I'll be all right with that, but no.

Speaker 2 2:06

God, you're getting old.

Speaker 1 2:07

Right, you are older than me. Wash your mouth out. I'm already feeling delicate, all right.

Speaker 2 2:13

Well, also, I just want to say it is turning so cold in the UK and, I'll be honest, I'm not that mad about it.

Speaker 1 2:29

About it's cold, but I am as you know.

Speaker 2 2:31

I don't mind the cold well, you love it so cold in the studio. The aircon is always on to the highest cold degree, whatever it is I know where you're going.

Speaker 1 2:39

You want to make a joke about my cold heart, don't you?

Speaker 2 2:41

you have a cold heart, yeah yeah, there we go.

Speaker 1 2:43

Yeah, I know, I get it. I get it, I don't really mind, literally like if I have people come to stay like after night out, whatever I'm like. Just to let you know, my room is bolted because I've got aircon on.

Speaker 2 2:51

All year round it is 16 degrees constant so if you're staying for a night at benji's, pack your thermals, pack your onesie, pack your hot water bottle, because it's gonna get cold, really cold. It's not getting hot in that bedroom.

Speaker 1 3:05

Like I said, that's all we've got time for on this episode of Big Game Podcast. You're a bitch, you're a bitch, but yeah, I don't mind the cold.

Speaker 2 3:11

Cold never bothered you anyway. The cold never bothered me anyway.

Speaker 1 3:15

Oh not, this Couldn't help it. That just closed, did you see?

Speaker 2 3:20

In West End.

Speaker 1 3:21

Well, where else is it going to?

Speaker 2 3:22

I don't know you just caught me off guard there. I was like where has it been on?

Speaker 1 3:24

Yes, it's been on the West End, no on the Norwegian Cruise Lines in the middle of the Bahamas, did you notice? Yes, of course, in the West End it's gone.

Speaker 2 3:29

Did you miss it?

Speaker 1 3:30

No.

Speaker 2 3:31

Did you like it Frozen.

Speaker 1 3:39

I don't amazing, but it's just, it's a bit too much for me. It's it's visual overload too stimulating to put it politely, it is too stimulating for my brain.

Speaker 2 3:49

It's just a bit like ah wow, you're really setting yourself for potential bachelors. You know um, you get overstimulated and you don't like it, and your bedroom's freezing. You don't like it hot in the bedroom, so, wow, yes and you're still single because you've been reading my tinder profile.

Speaker 1 4:05

Not again, not again is that what?

Speaker 2 4:10

we matched on. Was it tinder? It was tinder.

Speaker 1 4:12

What was it?

Speaker 2 4:13

oh, don't bring up the trauma. I don't want to go through that again.

Speaker 1 4:16

Sorry, sorry so I'm not going anywhere this time, don't worry. Don't worry, right, we've got a really exciting episode coming up this week you might have heard a couple of giggles already in the podcast studio.

Speaker 1 4:25

That's because there is a special guest with us today yeah, we wanted to bring somebody on the podcast to sort of educate everyone. We had a chat not that long ago like listen, when we finally get into secure relationships, would we ever want children, etc. And it sort of developed into this long conversation about if we did and how we would go about that. And actually there are lots of different options and they are ones that people don't really, I don't think, talk about and certainly don't get taught about at school. So we're very excited to have our guest on today who's actually going through the surrogacy option whilst being in a same gendered relationship.

Speaker 2 4:57

Yeah, so strap yourselves in, because this is going to be an educational podcast this week. We're going to learn so much. I've got so many questions. I'm sure you've got so many questions. I hope we don't overstimulate you today, benji, because I know you don't like it I hope we do.

Speaker 1 5:11

I hope we do. But yeah, we're gonna take a little little break and then we will have a real life Daddy in the studio with us. So yes, on this week's episode, we're very excited to be joined by well, actually, we can properly introduce him, because we've mentioned this Daddy a few times, because he was a huge support for us right at the beginning of starting my Big Gay podcast.

Speaker 2 5:34

Yeah, can you remember us back in season one? Gosh In our bedrooms. Gosh Not knowing how to do a podcast and giving it a go Speak for yourself.

Speaker 1 5:43

But yeah, we mentioned that we were very fortunate to have our very own fairy godfather, and now we can reveal that his name is Jonjo and he is our guest in the studio today. Yeah, so Jonjo supported us right at the very, very beginning, and what's funny is we called him our fairy godfather and now he's literally about to become a father, yeah, full circle, full circle moment.

Speaker 1 6:05

It's almost like we knew yes, and john joe, in a same gender relationship, is just about to go through surrogacy. So please put your hands together and make a big, warm welcome for john joe thank you very much for having me, guys welcome to my big gay podcast and our lovely little studio that we now record in.

Speaker 3 6:24

It is freezing.

Speaker 1 6:26

If you do get too warm, do let me know. But the aircon doesn't go any colder than it's on right now. Love it.

Speaker 2 6:34

So, jonjo, just sort of going right back at the beginning, you used to be a Clapham Gay like myself and I remember when I moved to clapham a few years ago and, uh, you were basically down the road, we were neighbors yeah, yeah, lived just about an eight minute walk from brewers to brewers and clapham.

Speaker 3 6:52

Wow yeah they've done that to death, I think. I love it still, obviously, but uh-huh, every friday, every sat, regular.

Speaker 1 7:00

Every weekend. It does me to death. So I think it's about time they felt how I feel every morning after.

Speaker 2 7:07

But you've recently moved away from Clapham. Yes, I have. Are you a bit more in the countryside now, out in the sticks?

Speaker 3 7:13

Nice. It's a suburbanite these days.

Speaker 1 7:15

Now, was that a conscious move because you knew you wanted to start a family, or were you always going to move out of london?

Modern Love and Family Plans

Speaker 3 7:20

absolutely, yeah, definitely wanted to move out. Um, I just knew that I needed more space, essentially, and I wanted to grow my family. Uh, it was just me and my husband recent husband, that sounds like I've had a few it's my first one and the two dogs I can't even get one exactly. You're doing well but yeah, it was just. Uh, I think things outside of london a lot more family friendly for sure. Just the craziness of clapham as well.

Speaker 2 7:45

Yeah it does have a bit of a crazy edge to it. I mean, I love it, but I imagine if I got to that stage where I might want to start a family, then, um yeah, I probably would do the same but I'm pretty sure you have to do some sort of iq test to become a father, I think honestly, I think that's coming in it.

Speaker 3 8:00

Is that actually?

Speaker 1 8:00

true? I think so. It's definitely not true.

Speaker 3 8:03

It's not the worst idea.

Speaker 1 8:05

Sometimes I really feel like you should have to pass a test. Goodness you with children? Absolutely not.

Speaker 2 8:13

I think I'd make a good daddy actually, so next question.

Speaker 3 8:17

Absolute silence. No, I'm team Brad today.

Speaker 2 8:22

Thank you, john, joe, it's payback.

Speaker 1 8:24

Fuck my drag.

Speaker 2 8:28

So you lived in Clapham, you moved away and you recently got married. So congratulations for that. Thank you very much. Wow, how long were you dating before you got married?

Speaker 3 8:37

So it's been a bit of a whirlwind. We've been dating for about four, four and a bit years. Yeah. So, um, we got married a little earlier than we thought we were going to originally, uh, because we started the secrecy process and we wanted to be married for that, which I'll come to later and it all happened a lot faster than I thought it was going to happen. Yeah, so we were fortunate enough to get married in June, on the 18th, the day after my now husband's 40th birthday, so went and shot over to Vegas, got it done and came back.

Speaker 2 9:09

Vegas wedding as well. I mean, that is goals. Would love to do that.

Speaker 1 9:12

I had to say the pictures looked absolutely stunning. Oh, thank you Like so gorgeous.

Speaker 3 9:15

Really, really cute.

Speaker 1 9:17

But before we carry on with the rest of the podcast, we haven't even offered you a drink. We're so rude, I'm so sorry. Now, obviously, because you're pregnant, we've gone for soft drinks. Is there any of these delicious soft drinks that you would like? We've got Diet Coke. It's literally like a children's tuck shop in here it is, we have. Rio Tropical. Other fizzy drinks are available. We've got Cherry Coke, Fanta.

Speaker 2 9:39

And what coke fanta. And what was that wild one bar cream soda wow, rogue, wow, got it all.

Speaker 1 9:43

Which one, if any, would you like?

Speaker 3 9:45

um, I would love a fanta.

Speaker 2 9:46

Please a fanta it's my favorite everything thank you, here you go, john joe right brad, which one would you like? I'm slightly tempted by the cream soda, just because I've never had it in my life, I think you'll like it.

Speaker 1 9:56

All right, I'm going for the cream soda I'm diving in I'm gonna be basic. I just going to go for the coke.

Speaker 2 10:01

Benji on the coke. That's not like you.

Speaker 1 10:04

Get the bag, get the bag Right. Cheers, boys, cheers. I know that segment Came out of absolutely nowhere, but I was dying Of thirst so I was like I'm just going to interrupt To make us open some drinks.

Speaker 2 10:16

So you got married this year, and where did you meet? You got married this year and where did you meet? We?

Speaker 3 10:20

actually met at oh quiz night, the gay quiz.

Speaker 2 10:25

Oh, my goodness. Benji you've been to a few of those quiz nights right, I've been to one.

Speaker 1 10:30

You, shady shady bitch. I've been to one of them and I'll be honest, I found it so nerve wracking that I spent the whole time going to the toilet. I think people probably thought I was quite unwell however, every time I went to the toilet, there were these same two boys going up to no good on the toilets was it me it wasn't that you um but yeah, so I just assumed it was less of a sort of a dating night and more of like grind alive they do the quizzes and the speed dating.

Speaker 2 10:57

Oh sorry, you said you went to the quiz.

Speaker 1 10:58

I went to the quiz oh, I was talking about the, the speed dating. Speed dating, that would make sense yeah also the, the quiz night I've actually never been to oh, it's good fun.

Speaker 2 11:06

It's good fun, yeah have you ever won? This is really embarrassing. I've been twice and both times my team came last how embarrassing was that the one?

Speaker 3 11:17

they did like a musical theater one.

Speaker 1 11:19

Yeah, we would rock with that yeah, you would absolutely and we still lost so sorry, we interrupted, so you met um so, yeah, we met.

Speaker 3 11:30

We met at that, but it was sort of just as just when you're allowed to do things during covid, um. So he saw me and then he added me on Grindr.

Speaker 1 11:39

Instagram, and then we.

Speaker 3 11:45

I actually completely ignored his request, and then we matched on Hinge. Come on, play hard to get and I had to go look after my mum for a reason for a little while and I was talking to two guys for about a month before I knew I was coming back to London, and my now husband was one of them and the other, unbeknownst to me at the time, was his best friend that lived about four minutes down the road.

Speaker 1 12:08

That's a movie that is.

Speaker 2 12:10

That is a movie, yeah.

Speaker 3 12:12

So they both knew I was coming back and they suggested the idea of a date. And they both sent me the same message.

Speaker 2 12:18

Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 12:22

So they were in cahoots. They knew that, oh wow, only I think that day. But yeah, they uh. They both asked me on the day, but I sent me the same message and I said, oh, so sorry, I'll step back. You know, I don't want to come between really good friends like you guys, etc. And um. And then they both messaged separately saying, well, okay, that's really respectful, etc. But should we go on a date still, which I thought was you know, backstabby. But here we are, uh, and the other guy was busy, so I married the other one.

Speaker 1 12:44

Just to go back on what you said before. John joe, if you want to come between the two of us, that is so fine absolutely, we're good, we're good, we're good um, wow, okay, so you just went on the date with now robbie, yep, my, my now husband um no, I, I did obviously choose robbie um over the two of them. Are they still besties? They're really good friends.

Speaker 3 13:04

Oh good, yeah, yeah, yeah, nice and I met his friend and within five minutes we were both like oh my God, that would have been an absolute nosedive of a relationship.

Speaker 2 13:13

Oh really.

Speaker 3 13:13

Yeah, so we both agreed it was probably for the best.

Speaker 2 13:16

Oh, that's cute and and then. So sort of going into the surrogacy process. Was having kids something that you always wanted?

Speaker 3 13:24

Yes, it really was, and I found that that was quite a big thing when I was getting into relationships and stuff with different guys, whether they wanted a family or not and I respect both ways of you know what you want to do with your life, but I just really really wanted children. I saw the joy it brought to my family. I have a lot of love to give. You know, I've already got two dogs and I'm still still needing to grow my my circle and share the love, so it was definitely really important to me for sure so alone, so alone, um, okay, so we obviously we've established that you went down the surrogacy.

Speaker 1 13:59

Did you ever consider any other routes?

Speaker 3 14:01

yes, so, so I looked at them all. So you know you've got adoption. I just can't think of any more right on the spot right now Fostering, fostering, there we go, and surrogacy was always at the top.

Speaker 2 14:12

Just personally for me and that wasn't to rule out the others, it was more to see how I get on with surrogacy and then perhaps look into the other routes if it doesn't prove fruitful so I've got a question for you both if you're dating someone and it's starting to get maybe a little bit more serious, when is the point to say about the kids situation or even marriage, right, because they're two sort of big milestones in a relationship and some people might not want either. So when's a good point to maybe bring that up that isn't too like overwhelming and a bit, you know, pinned downy should you have me, because I'm gonna drag you or should you have that conversation early?

Speaker 2 14:48

because, um, imagine if you date for like a year and then you're like I don't know what, I've always wanted kids and the other person says, well, I never have wanted that well, I have noticed now on like hinge you can put.

Speaker 1 14:57

If you want kids, don't want kids or you're undecided, you can put that now, so maybe that's early in the bag yeah, I mean on a first day I have been asked if I want kids. Yeah is that too early it really depends on the vibe, no other things, I think. If we're talking about like, like, do you have brothers and sisters? Where are your family from? Do you have any dogs? Do you think you'll want kids one day? I think that's okay for me. I wouldn't find that like, oh, oh, god get me out of here.

Speaker 1 15:20

But yeah, if they were a bit more timid, maybe I would save it for date two or three. If I ever got to date two or three, oh no, not with you. Sorry, not with you. I'm a strong, independent woman.

Speaker 2 15:31

What about you, Jonjoe, when you were on dates? Was that something that you wanted to talk about quite early on?

Speaker 3 15:42

Because it's a really good question. I think I um I did talk about it quite early on, uh, generally because it was important to me, but also, um, that naming names. Obviously I've got people around me that it turns out that one of the partners didn't want children and you know that's ended some exceptionally long relationships, uh, which is really sad. So, yeah, kind of got it. I mean, robbie, my now husband, is pretty useless at hiding his emotions and he told me he loved me on day three or something like that. I was like whoa, how do I get out of here? Yeah, it was really funny, really awkward at the same time, and all my friends were like did tim.

Speaker 1 16:13

I was like uh, did you say it back? Did you know?

Speaker 3 16:16

I love spending time with you too I said thank you and turned it back over, slightly aroused. I'm with you too. I said thank you and turned it back over Slightly aroused. Now, actually Going back to your question, I think it is important to you know. Get those facts out on the table from day one At least. Then you know where you're. Some people they've made up their minds from being when they were a child.

Speaker 1 16:39

That's true, they don't want children.

Speaker 3 16:41

Yeah, it's really important.

Speaker 1 16:42

I mean, I have often thought about it. I think I've always said, like if I end up with the right, it's not the be all end all for me, because I've got nephews and nieces which is almost enough for me, but I feel like if I ended up with the right person, I would for sure. I'm definitely much it is what it is. If it feels safe, it feels right financially. If it's okay because it's so expensive.

Speaker 2 17:14

I am living in London and thinking about starting a family poor.

Speaker 3 17:18

I think I felt like you actually until sort of 36, 37, and then all of a sudden hormones, I think, kicked in and I really wanted a family all of a sudden I've got 10 years then here we go.

Speaker 2 17:31

so going back to surrogacy, and forgive me if I come across totally um or ask the wrong questions because I have zero, I kind of knowledge about it all. Really Ignorant, stupid, dumb All of that.

Speaker 1 17:41

I will happily take that.

Speaker 2 17:44

But my kind of knowledge really of surrogacy is through Friends, the TV show which I know, benji, you're a big fan of. But they had two surrogacy storylines. Do you remember? Phoebe was a surrogacy for her brother, is that right? And then Monica and Chandler also then had surrogacy as well.

Speaker 1 18:01

There's brother, is that right? And then monica and chandler also then had surrogacy as well. There's an adoption, oh right, one surrogacy storyline.

Speaker 3 18:05

And one adoption one did phoebe have triplets?

Speaker 1 18:07

phoebe had triplets for her brother, yeah and monica and chandler adopted twins yes, but the mother was already pregnant when they went through the adoption. And then ross's son ben, then had two lesbian mums. Yes, there was quite a quite a lot of. They were doing what they thought was good work. Yeah, but they didn't quite do it. I don't think they did it very well. I do love Friends and I know people at home will be like no. Friends is awful. It has aged badly. It really has.

Speaker 3 18:33

It was quite progressive at the time, wasn't it Right?

Speaker 1 18:35

yeah, I was going to say it started movements but actually if you really watch it back and you look at how they over-sexualize lesbians and how they feminize gay people, it's not done very well for itself. But yeah, they did. They started the movement, for sure on TV. I feel like they had one of the first lesbian kisses as well which was Rachel Gere and an old school friend.

Speaker 2 18:54

Oh, I remember that episode.

Speaker 1 18:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, if you remember, the network nearly cancelled them for it because Jennifer Anderson was such a huge time, like it was everywhere, everywhere, and I remember even people at home were like oh, this is disgusting, look at this.

Speaker 2 19:07

So there was a lot going on, a lot going on. There was a lot going on there. But that was my kind of first introduction to surrogacy, um, so I guess my question to you, uh, john joe, is how do you select someone to be like, I guess, the oven? Would you call it the oven? Yes, what are the terms?

Surrogacy and Sperm Donation Discussion

Speaker 3 19:22

there's so many. I was completely naive to surrogacy when I first started looking into it. And um, just go back straight to your first question. Uh, my favorite phrase for my surrogate is the tummy mummy which I really enjoy. Um, I'm really really fortunate. My finding a surrogate is hard in eng, which I really enjoy. Um, I'm really really fortunate. My finding a surrogate is hard in england it's. It's not commercial, you can't pay for it and in fact, if you do, it's illegal. Um is it. Yeah, completely illegal.

Speaker 2 19:47

Yes, um do you have to find someone to volunteer?

Speaker 3 19:50

you do, and there are agencies out there that can help you in the government recommended agencies that can help you as well, one of which there are a few, but one of which I remember at the minute is surrogacyukorg, and they match not really match make, but they have events and things that you can go to and learn about and meet other surrogates and and if you get a link out of that, then then great, and there's a there's an awful lot of law, uh, surrounding it and there's a lot of law changes that they're looking to make hopefully, fingers crossed which will make it easier for same-gendered couples to have children. Um, but I'm really, really fortunate my, my sister-in-law, stephanie, she, she offered to be our surrogate. Wow, yeah, we, we didn't approach her about it. We, we left our dogs with my mother-in-law and my sister-in-law was there, and we went off on our holiday last year and, uh, when we came back, she said no, I'm doing it for you, you don't need to worry, um, and we said look, can we just have a week to think about it, because there's a huge toll on her body.

Speaker 3 20:46

You know, she's 40, 41 now. Um, I don't think she'll mind me saying that, um, and she's, she's completed her own family already, which is quite a big, important step that you go through. So. So she's got an 18-year-old and a 12 13-year-old and she asked their permission first before she came to us and I thought it was really lovely and the right way to do it. I was very lucky, but yeah, so Tummy, mummy is part of it. People come up with all different names. It's whatever you feel comfortable with, generally speaking.

Speaker 1 21:13

So a question so the surrogate, it's just their oven, right? You don't use their egg?

Speaker 3 21:18

So that's the thing. There's the two ways you can use their egg if they're happy to donate eggs, and they've got two titles which I've forgotten at the minute. I think it's gestational surrogacy and straight surrogacy so it can be their DNA and your DNA. Or you can use donated eggs and there's a couple of ways you can find those. You, uh, for example, for me I went to two different clinics in london.

Speaker 3 21:42

One was not very, very helpful. Um, they didn't keep eggs frozen. And there's another rule that we learned about at the time is the eggs have to be donated by the women and it, you know, it takes months for them to do it. They have to stimulate all their ovaries to overproduce eggs, etc. And then they have to store them for three months to make sure. Um, different sti checks and all the rest of it.

Speaker 3 22:02

And then I went to a second clinic, the london women's clinic, and they had hundreds of eggs already frozen ready to go, and it was a bit like going through a facebook grinder kind of not grinder, facebook kind of you know, myspace, the olden days kind of profiles of looking at. Obviously, they can't tell you their name, but they can tell you their educational level, they can tell you their skin, eye color, hair color, weight, height, languages, degree level and a few other different pieces. So you know, we spent ages just looking through and looking through, and then new donors would come along, and then the donor you wanted got bought the day before, because you have to buy the eggs, obviously.

Speaker 3 22:41

And then you get other questions. If you're having only one child and there's 10 eggs there, I think you can create. I'm going to totally get this stat wrong but you can only create so many families from the same donor. I think it's three families. So that would mean that your children would have half brothers and half sisters around the world and you don't know where, just depends where, where the other eggs were used. So do you buy them all? Do you buy? You know however many there are. So just just question after decision, after scary thought after another, and you just have to take one step at a time and I suppose they do that for only having three families, because generation down the line there'll be a massive crossover with genes, which obviously would not be not be okay.

Speaker 1 23:20

So just to clarify, it's your sister-in-law sister-in-law carrying and you've, but you bought somebody else's yes, exactly that got it and this may sound like a really dumb question, probably, but say me and benji won't have a baby jesus? Oh my gosh, just for now, just in case, I wonder, to the world famous?

Speaker 2 23:45

maybe famously bullied wrong reasons? No, it'd be wonderful um but let's say we decided to have our own. Could we mix all our sperm in one big pot and then that just gets delivered to the egg and then we don't know whose sperm it is, or does it have to be just from one donor? Yeah, how does that work?

Speaker 3 24:06

okay. So it's an amazing question is exactly the first question that I wondered when I I went to start looking into surrogacy and it's a really strange. So they used to do that, they used to do that and they they obviously very closely test the success rates of everything they do. Because when you go to different clinics, the first question you want to know is how successful is it going to be? And the same with IVF, because there's a lot of IVF involved if you go down that route and it's quite a funny answer so if you mix two guys sperm together, they have a a job, and the one job is go to the egg and impregnate the egg. However, if it doesn't sum up what is wrong with you know all of man and men, mankind, they will not go for the egg, they will fight each other to the death instead.

Speaker 3 24:51

So if you mix your sperm, yeah, they, they won't get the job done. They will. Nine times out of ten, they'll, they'll, uh, they'll just fight each other and and just wriggle into death instead oh, that is I mean it makes sense, right?

Speaker 1 25:04

yeah, just look at mankind I'm trying to think of jokes about us fighting each other, but it just can't figure anything out.

Speaker 2 25:09

But the thing is say we did mix our sperm and then it comes out ginger and love in the cold. I'm like, okay, well, that's clearly benji sperm that made the final car.

Speaker 1 25:16

Enough about your first date okay also of all my personality traits you've come up with ginger and loves the cold.

Speaker 1 25:23

Thanks, mate you're welcome so then, going on from that, is that a conversation you had with your husband, like who should we use? Because I think and this is not me saying you, john job, I think if I was having was using a surrogate with my significant other? And just to stop me feeling queasy, let's not use Brad as an example. There's something what's the word? I don't want to say narcissistic, but there's something in me that would want to use mine so I can see a baby version of me.

Speaker 3 25:51

Exactly, and we're designed that way. That's the future of evolution.

Speaker 1 25:55

My partner would probably feel the same way. So is that a conversation that you two had, or did you sort of just leave it up to yeah?

Speaker 3 26:01

so, um, we both um donated. We let the doctor decide for us, but actually in doing that process, um, it's crazy how much you find out about yourself. So, um, a lot of my friends, um, male and female, are now doing tests to to try and have children and finding out they can't do it. I think it's something like one in three people are infertile or have a low sperm count and our lifestyles really don't lend themselves. So, you know, when we were both donating, I had to spend a really good six months at least no drink, no going out, lots of walnuts um cold ice packs in my pants.

Speaker 1 26:40

Yeah, you have to keep your testes cold not cold, but well, you're welcome the studio today, the perfect environment benji is currently cooking at the moment.

Speaker 3 26:49

Yeah, so it is. It is honestly crazy. You need something like uh, I think it's 18 million sperm per milliliter to um get pregnant naturally, but it can be as high as 124, 140 million and it can be as low as zero or one or two or three. So it's, it's mental, the the range, and men are lucky they can do nine times out of ten. They can do something about it, they can change it through diet and exercise and not going to brewers all the time um, and women can't?

Speaker 3 27:20

they already have their eggs. So if there's an issue, that's it.

Speaker 1 27:24

They're stuck and stop donating at home actually uh, you have to donate, shall we say?

Speaker 3 27:31

uh, quite a lot. Um, yeah, on doctor's orders, uh, I was informed every, at least every three days, I had to provide my what are we going to call it, which is magic sauce oh, let's brainstorm some ideas daddy's DNA daddy's sauce oh, that's already a thing, daddy's sauce. Yeah, I love that that's not got done for infringement of copyright we'll spell daddy differently.

Speaker 1 27:56

I called it secret potion oh yeah, I don't know what I like daddy sauce.

Speaker 3 28:03

That's my fave because if you are going to go down this route, from my personal experience of speaking to my mother-in-law and her asking me daily also how is your um uh, how is your uh? Daddy sauce and just expecting me to fill in the blank, and this bunk really didn't go down very well oh yeah, I guess what's the nice plate dna, dna, I like that.

Speaker 1 28:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 28:24

Sperm and gamete.

Speaker 1 28:26

Gametes are the uh, and just to clarify, when you said you had to donate every three days, are we still talking about the home office or in lab?

Sperm Donation and Surrogacy Process

Speaker 3 28:33

no, you, you can do it in the home office. That's fine, um, but you do test to make sure to see when you're at your well, sort of peak, etc. When I actually had to give, uh, my special dna potion, uh, it was quite literally the most awkward moment in my life. I was in the clinic, uh, it was in farringdon. Um, I'll leave it at that, but it was one of those old london buildings that has like spiral staircase in the middle and it was just a room off that, off the spiral staircase. And this building was used for many different reasons, you know, botox and plastic surgery and all the rest of it and whatever. So I'm just off the spiral staircase with an old wooden door that doesn't quite fit, the seams don't quite touch around the corners, a TV and a leather sofa, and just my imagination and my right hand A magazine, nothing.

Speaker 3 29:18

No, there was a TV that I didn't dare turn on because I was worried. Turn it off, turn it off. But then of course you have to. You know you're not allowed to do it for a few days before all that sort of stuff. But also there's a little door behind you, in the wall, where you have to leave it. You open it, it's like on a little latch, and you leave it on the uh on the side, and then there's a science lab on the other side of that door where they take it from you and obviously freeze it and all the rest of it. Um, so it's not very sexy, it's not very sexy at all.

Speaker 1 29:46

I mean, I've done it in less sexy places that is true.

Speaker 3 29:49

This is actually a step up from where you usually do it yeah, I thought I saw your name at the back of the road, just next to that church, on the wall.

Speaker 1 29:58

I've heard stories about that church oh yeah, yeah, not about me, okay Stories which I won't share right now, but apparently things do happen there.

Speaker 3 30:04

Oh wow, oh, they were wonderful. During lockdown, though, they let brewers use their outdoor space.

Speaker 1 30:09

Yeah.

Speaker 3 30:09

Yeah, that was quite nice.

Speaker 1 30:10

Their outdoor space was used.

Speaker 3 30:11

Let's just leave it at that. We'll try and end it at that one.

Speaker 1 30:14

Okay, so you could donate at home and you could test at home, did you say?

Speaker 3 30:17

You can test at home. You can super drug to a test for £200, I think it is and they have to come and collect it within two hours of you doing it, because sperm die very quickly. When they put the solution on it, it keeps it alive for a bit longer. But I was so embarrassed that when the guy turned up on the motorbike to come and collect the sperm, I had to send my husband down to go give it to him because I just couldn't face the idea of being like here's my magic potion.

Speaker 1 30:41

Still sort of red in the face.

Speaker 3 30:43

Wearing it with nothing but a smile.

Speaker 1 30:47

I've also heard, just from other people that have mentioned surrogacy, that actually, when it comes to the donating process, you can't have any help. Is that true?

Speaker 3 30:58

What do you mean by help?

Speaker 2 30:59

well you can't have other. Um no, no bodily, yes, including saliva no, absolutely it has to be a very strict donation yeah so was it?

Speaker 1 31:06

did you donate at the same time? Did you just one at a time?

Speaker 3 31:09

uh, same time? Um, obviously not in the same room. And all I remember thinking, to be perfectly honest, is oh my god, is that it after all this time waiting I've been you know very. I haven't done anything in a long time and that's all I've managed to produce Jesus, but apparently it was brilliant. Yeah, they said, I've got eight vials left so can you sell that on? I used to get paid for it not anymore, unfortunately I'm too old. But joke, benji, you're looking thirsty, all of a sudden you're right, very aroused.

Speaker 2 31:39

I used to get paid for it. Not anymore, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 31:40

I'm too old. Oh, my Joke, benji, you're looking thirsty all of a sudden.

Speaker 2 31:41

You're right Very aroused, but you have to freeze it.

Speaker 3 31:44

It has to be frozen for three months. You have to do tests at the beginning, and then after three months you have to do another test. They quarantine it so you can't even use it. Yeah, it's not like oh, today I want a baby, let's go find some eggs and do it tomorrow. It probably takes you six months to get to that point.

Speaker 1 31:58

Wow. So just before we take a very quick break from the moment you and your husband said you know what we're going to do surrogacy to the moment that you got the call saying I'm pregnant how long was that?

Speaker 3 32:08

So we were lucky, like I said, we had a surrogate, been two and five years um and we're our children are due, uh, because we're having twins oh, congratulations.

Speaker 2 32:21

Thank you very much um.

Speaker 3 32:22

Our children are due november, the 17th um, and we started jan 23, so it's coming up to the two-year mark okay, and that's um sort of on the quicker end of the process.

Speaker 3 32:34

Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah I mean you can go abroad and do it quicker because it is commercial in certain other countries, um, and then other countries you can't do it anymore, um, italy, for example, I think. Now I think I read um, there are children already there that have two mums, two dads, and the government are taking off the non-biological parent, yeah, and if you try to do so, we say over there you can have a I think it was a two million euro fine, something along those lines, or a prison sentence, and if you try and do it abroad and bring them back, they won't recognize it. So countries are going forward leaps and bounds. Some countries are england is, isn't a, it's not as far advanced as, say, america, but it's, it's in a good space and women are very well protected, which I I think is really important. And then other countries are going backwards. So you've got to be really careful.

Speaker 1 33:20

All right. Well, that is a lot to process. I think let's take a very quick break and then I have many more questions to come back with Jonjo. I hope that's all right.

Speaker 3 33:26

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 33:28

Oh, podcasters, that noise, as you know, means that's all we have time for on this week's episode, big Gay Podcast. But do not panic, jonjo will be with us in the studio next week answering all your questions. So let us know has this made you feel broody? Has this opened your eyes? Do you have any questions for Jonjo? How does it make you feel? We'd obviously love to hear from you, and to do that, you can write in to us on our social media platforms, at Big Gay Podcast, or head over to our website, which is wwwmybiggaypodcastcom. But, like I said, that's all we have time for until next week see you next wednesday.