Women's Money Wisdom

Episode 289: Your Money Has Feelings: Healing “Financial Scar Tissue” with Shannon Ryan, CFP®

• Melissa Joy, CFP® • Season 4 • Episode 289

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What if your biggest money challenges aren’t about math at all—but about the feelings and “financial scar tissue” you’ve been carrying for years?

In this episode of Women’s Money Wisdom, Melissa Joy, CFP®, welcomes fellow advisor and author Shannon Ryan, CFP®, to talk about her new book Your Money Has Feelings. Together, they explore why money is so deeply emotional, how early experiences shape lifelong financial habits, and what it takes to align money with what really matters.

In this conversation:

  • What “financial scar tissue” is and how it quietly drives our choices
  • Why money feels primal—and why society equates wealth with worth
  • The hidden cost of “shoulds” like paying off the house or funding 100% of college
  • Permission to spend: overcoming scarcity when you have more than enough
  • Overspending as self-soothing—and ways to realign short-term habits with long-term goals
  • Why micro-decisions (like raising your 401(k) 2%) create big momentum
  • The psychological leap into retirement and why it feels harder than the numbers suggest

Key takeaways:

  • Naming your money story is the first step to changing it.
  • You can have anything, but not everything—clarify what matters most now.
  • Progress is built on small, repeatable actions, not perfection.
  • A trusted planner can simplify the math and hold space for the feelings.

Resources & Links:

The previous presentation by PEARL PLANNING was intended for general information purposes only. No portion of the presentation serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from PEARL PLANNING or any other investment professional of your choosing. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and it should not be assumed that future performance of any specific investment or investment strategy, or any non-investment related or planning services, discussion or content, will be profitable, be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Neither PEARL PLANNING’s investment adviser registration status, nor any amount of prior experience or success, should be construed that a certain level of results or satisfaction will be achieved if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. PEARL PLANNING is neither a law firm nor accounting firm, and no portion of its services should be construed as legal or accounting advice. No portion of the video content should be construed by a client or prospective client as a guarantee that he/she will experience a certain level of results if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. A copy of PEARL PLANNING’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at https:...

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. I'm Melissa Joy, a certified financial planner and the founder of Pearl Planning. My goal is to help you streamline and organize your finances, navigate big money decisions with confidence and be strategic in order to grow your wealth. As a woman, you work hard for your money and I'm here to help you make the most of it. Now let's get into the show.

Speaker 1:

Welcome back to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. If you are a regular listener, you know that something I think we need more of that we are just missing in the world is female personal finance authors. So I'm thrilled to bring another outstanding author who has a new book coming out. Shannon Ryan is a certified financial planner and she just published your Money has Feelings. Shannon, can you hold up that picture of the book? It is so cute. If you guys can see. If you're watching on the video, it's got a crumpled up piece of $100 bill on the therapist's couch and gosh. Shannon and I are both on the same page when it comes to money has feelings and your life with money. If you're not dealing with your emotions and the psychology of money, it just doesn't work, shannon welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me, Melissa. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, congratulations on your book. This is an amazing accomplishment and I know, you are being published this at the holiday season. You're going to be able to find the book in the airport, as you're running off to catch your flight, congratulations. Tell me why you needed this book to be out in the world.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, melissa. You know it's you and I have had a lot of very similar journeys as wealth advisors and when you have the privilege of sitting across from real people every day, I always say we don't just report on this, we actually live it day in and day out with people. And when we learn it and learn it, and when you live day in and day out, it's very hard not to start to see, um, to see things that other people don't see. When I was first in the business, I really thought it was all about the numbers, that the financial planning was about math. And it isn't just about math. It is much more about emotion. There's a deep personal side.

Speaker 2:

Many people carry what I call financial scar tissue, and really what that is is. We have experiences with money in our life that creates wounds. Sometimes we don't even remember that our parents fought about money or somebody. Our first marriage held power over us with money, but our body remembers and then we react to money in negative ways and so often when we're sitting across from people in our offices and I know you know this, melissa people will say I can't do that, I shouldn't do that, and I started to wonder where's all the I can't and shoulds coming from and I started to realize it was this residual pain around money that created huge gaps in traditional financial planning Meaning. We do traditional planning, we could run the numbers, but there was another gap and it was people's feelings about money.

Speaker 1:

That gap is so big, I'll tell you my own money, trauma or just you know. What makes me different is we had a comfortable family growing up, but then my parents split up and my dad was still comfortable and my mom wasn't so I got to learn.

Speaker 1:

you know both what it's like to be safe, but also kind of scarcity, and that made a huge difference in terms of the way I see the world. Certain things are more vulnerability in terms of my own kind of money behavior, and I see that time and again with clients that I share it, because just because we're financial planners doesn't mean we don't have this going on.

Speaker 2:

I can't wait for you to read my preface of the book. I will share that in common. We hadn't talked about this yet. I literally watched my father use money as power, with my mom through a divorce and through multiple divorces, to the point where I have worked my whole life because I never wanted to lose the ability to earn my own income and not have choice and power around money, and it was something I had to come to terms with as well. But it's a very raw opening to the book and it has to do with that childhood experience in what I witnessed, even though my father was somebody I loved more than words, to the day he died like I admire him and he did in the end.

Speaker 2:

I think it was his own wounds from his parents that brought him to use money as power. He thought it was his only leverage. But to understand that allows me to move forward in my financial journey, and so that's what I trying to help the readers do is just like what you shared If somebody. When I did a Ted talk two years ago Ted X talk all I wanted was and people left the room. I was right before lunch and my coach said what do you want them to get Jim. I said I want them to walk out and tell their stories to see why they react to money the way they do. Because once they see it they can change that story, that bias, and they can start to align their money with their values and find financial happiness. And that's what I think I accomplished the TEDx talk and that's what I'm praying that I've got with this book and I can't wait to start hearing everyone's reaction.

Speaker 1:

I love it. I am thinking just as you say this just in the past week I had lunch with a friend who knows what I do. You know, sometimes you find when you everybody knows you're a financial planner, if they think you maybe want to talk stocks with them, which is not the case. But she was like, hey, I'm approaching retirement. She's not a client of mine, but here's the deal.

Speaker 1:

I grew up where I observed other women losing control when they didn't have their own money, so I was so committed to always having my own money. But now it's closer to retirement. Her husband's a little bit younger, so he's not going to retire right away and she's like I don't know how to do this because I'm so focused on control and money is control for me. But the ability to articulate that means you can right, because so many people are walking around with these kind of minefields under the surface and I mean you and I can see, hey, there's something more we need to talk about. I feel like. But having that story, just like you said, is a superpower, because then you can start setting the story aside. In some cases you can start using the strengths of the story. There's so many opportunities when you know what's going on in your mind when it comes to money.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and I think that's one of the keys I think that's one of the wonderful things that I know that you and your team do, melissa and is traditional finance only takes us so far, meaning that we have to be able to study and understand the behavioral finance, because most people get into these biases and these patterns and some of them are very unhealthy and disorders around money.

Speaker 2:

And I've seen and I know you have too, because you've told me I've seen people and we always think it's people that are struggling with money. I've had people that have had tens of millions of dollars that will not buy a pair of tennis shoes, that to play tennis, to protect their joints, they'll not spend more than $30 on the pair of shoes. They'll risk their body because they're worried about being bagged people. I mean it could all go away tomorrow. They've got you know, you know we, you know it's bag woman syndrome, so's it's, it's across the board. So it's not about how much you have, it's your response to money, and I laugh because I named the book your money has feelings. Money is currency, it's paper, it doesn't feel. We feel we feel about money in our response to money dictates our lifelong experience with money and that's powerful.

Speaker 1:

So powerful. I think you know, we all know those studies that say money can't buy happiness, but you can arrange your resources to help embrace and support your happiness. You know that kind of scarcity mentality that results in people with a lot of wealth still living In a place where it's difficult to make even the small purchasing decisions. That is where work with a professional, whether it's a financial therapist, which you know is out there, or in work with an informed financial planner who integrates the wealth management with the realities of humanity when it comes to money, can be such a game changer.

Speaker 1:

I give an example of a wealthy client that I work with who recently said you know, if you send me $1,000 a month more than the very modest amount that she uses to kind of supplement lifestyle, that would be great. We were talking about. She's like, yeah, I'm going to sign up for that Pilates class and also I'm seeing a therapist. That's really great, but it's out of pocket. And I was like are you sure we shouldn't do maybe 2000? So you don't like kind of only do the six weeks of Pilates but sign up for longer and stuff like that. It's like, oh yeah, that'll, that'll work too, but that permission to spend sometimes is what you need.

Speaker 2:

Isn't that amazing? I find that I'm working more to give people permission to enjoy their resources than I'm saying well, we're going to be careful. So it's an interesting dynamic day to day in our offices and, as you said, so often we say you can't money can't buy happiness. However, um, you need a certain amount of money to have your basic needs met. Um, as you're having some money makes, it is important that. But we have to be aware that that happiness doesn't come from money itself. It comes from the alignment of that money.

Speaker 2:

A lot of people in the world don't have choice around the money, and you and I understand that there are some very impoverished places in the world, but and they don't even have daily choice because their basic living needs aren't taken care of. But many of us do have those taken care of and we do have choice. But until we really understand the choices that we want to make, we allow ourselves to decide what we really want financially, without anyone else weighing in, whether it be, you know, tiktok telling us that we need something, our family telling us we need something, but really our own desires. And then when we align our money with those desires and we allow ourselves that extra thousand or 2000 a month to do the things that make us happy. That's when the magic happens. That's when financial stories change and it doesn't happen overnight. But once we identify our stories it does start to happen. Especially if you've got a good coach alongside you. It can really that permission is huge.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely Permissions getting away from the shoulds. I should have made better choices. We talk a lot. I find there's a common theme of like hey, you deserve to spend more. We often work with people who have really been successful financially. What about for people on the flip side, where it's just always been an issue, where you kind of over-focus on the flip side, where you know it's just always been an issue where you, you know, kind of over-focus on the short term or you can't stop spending. What do you, you know, kind of recommend or what are their money stories? Sometimes they're the same money story. They just kind of present themselves in a different way.

Speaker 2:

I think spending is like any other. Overspending is like any other soothing activity that we can do. We can overexercise, we can overeat, we can overdrink. There's there's a lot of things that we do as human beings to create, um, to create some comfort for ourselves. If we're we have stress or we have pain around an experience or we think you know well, they can do it. And I work hard, I need to do it.

Speaker 2:

And what I find, and I'm sure you do as well, when we really work with somebody and identify what they, what they really want, there may be some hard choices. They may really want to start, they may really want to travel, but they purchased a house, they've overspent on a house or they're overspending in other areas. So it's not that they don't have the money to do the things they want, say for retirement and everything else, but they're making short term, term decisions that aren't in align with that. So they're giving away. They say, well, I can't do that, I don't have the resources, I don't have it, and sometimes they've literally given away their power to have the things they want because they didn't identify it. So when somebody is overspending their needs, if they really know what they want and we can help them drive down to what they really want. Then we can start aligning resources.

Speaker 2:

And this isn't always easy. It may be sell the house, sell the fancy lease car, get rid of the fancy lease car. If you're saying you want to travel, maybe you need a second job, or you want to retire and or have financial options at a certain age where you can work or not work that that job that you're in. So it's not that there's always an easy answer for it, but what I find is that there's typically a misalignment and that people are getting that dopamine hit from spending. And then the back end they're like oh, I never have enough money, I don't get to do the things that I want to do, and yet the money flowed through their hands they could have. And that's where you help people look at that from a different perspective. You can change course on it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm left thinking it was something that's been resonating with me recently. From a different perspective, you can really you can change course on it. Yeah, I, I'm left thinking it was something that's been resonating with me recently. In many cases with mid-career people who you know they're like, if you told me today or 10 years ago that I would have the income that I have and the wealth that I have, I would think all my problems would be solved. And yet there's also rising, you know, kind of lifestyle, not in a judgy way, like kids are expensive when they're teenagers or young adults.

Speaker 1:

You want the best for everything and everyone. Sometimes you are last on the list to be invested in or taken care of, but there sometimes can be very inflexible thinking I want the best for my kids, we need to go to the best college, this is the house we have to have, and if you can step back and say what does that cost you when it comes to stress, anxiety, marital or relationship woes, just general lack of contentment, just like you're saying, I do think like flexible mentality to say you can have anything but not everything. You know what's right for right now may not always be the case, it's not always more. Sometimes we edit and say what goes off the list or is less. That is something that's really been just thematically on my mind recently.

Speaker 2:

Melissa, exactly that is. I mean. It's so on point. I was speaking to a group of women and I had somebody from the audience, at the end of the talk, raised their hand and said I understand what you're saying. We were talking about just what you and I were talking about. We were talking about how to align your resources with your money. And she said but my deepest, deepest desire is to pay for my son's education and I just can't. I don't have the money. And I said can you? I talked to you after can you come back to the green room, can we? Can we talk afterwards rather than doing this in front of the whole group? So she comes back after I was speaking in an area, fairly affluent area. She comes back afterwards and she said I'm telling you, you're saying that we can align our money. This is what I want more than anything. I don't have the money.

Speaker 2:

So I started asking a couple of questions and I quickly got to the fact that she does live in a fairly affluent area. Her husband had died early, she was widowed, um and, but she owned her house outright and she's very proud to say that she just paid her home off. But she had, she had some retirement savings. She was still working, but it was. It was tight, it wasn't, there, wasn't. But the house was paid off and she was so excited about it and I said so you're telling me that the number one goal for you is to help pay for your son's education. I said then you can either sell the home and buy a smaller home, you can mortgage the home. You can. You can take a mortgage.

Speaker 1:

Turn around and you just paid it off.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, and she said she goes no, no, no, no. I would never do any of that. I I it's too much of a risk. I want the house paid off. I feel so. That's my and I said so your number one desire is you've already got it. You got it. You paid your house off. You don't have to pay for your son's entire college education. He can work, you can help, you can work with him to get loans and grants and other things. You can help in so many ways.

Speaker 2:

But you are making yourself miserable by telling yourself that your number one goal is to pay for your son's education. Your number one goal was to have the security of a paid off home, and now you do, and your son is never going to have to take care of you because you have a home to live in. So let's find other ways to help your son with education. And it was just to watch her body language and I was pushing her like you're not, you're not, that's not your number one goal. It was almost like her body language and I was pushing her like you're not, you're not, that's not your number one goal. It was almost like her body just relaxed and said you're right, there's a lot of ways I can help them. And she said I just feel like our community says you've got to pay for your kid's education and I said that not. No, that's a choice and not at the risk of your financial security.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 1:

And if you had pushed and pushed and it was like I'm paying off my house because I was told to by this. You know financial guru or you know that's everybody told me I need to. That's another thing. Like, so many people nowadays have interest rates that are extremely low, but they're still focused on must pay down, must pay down. And then, if they have big if it had been different and she said no, I'm serious, I would sell my house or mortgage it in order to pay per school then you know, you know what? Like do not pay your house off right now if you have a mortgage under 4%.

Speaker 1:

So all of these, though, are nuanced right. You can't just go and watch a TikTok reel or an Instagram reel or a Facebook video and assess your priorities, because there's so much. The way we talk about money as a society nowadays is all in 30 second clips. We still haven't learned to have those foundational personal financial literacy skills, and it's being, you know, kind of made up for by a bunch of like people living in showing you know, their fancy cars and big houses on their social media that you don't see under whether you know there's a thousand bucks in the bank account and it's month to month for everything else.

Speaker 2:

And I think that's because and one of the things that I say often is that money is primal, meaning that money is so emotional because it's how we survive, it's how we eat and we clothe ourselves and we house ourselves. It's primal, and yet we live in a society that, if I said to you, hey, melissa, so-and-so, is really successful, the first thing you think of is they're financially successful. Most of us don't think, oh, it was successful marriage, they've successfully raised their children, they've been successful in their volunteer activities in their community. No, you think when you say that you think they're wealthy from a financial standpoint, and what happens is, is we as human beings want to be accepted and admired by society, so we believe money is how society judges us. It is, it is our worth, and so there's such a emphasis on it personally, and it's why we do things and create behaviors and habits that aren't healthy for us. And it's natural, because it's that primal drive inside of us to be admired.

Speaker 2:

But so often and you and I sit in a very blessed position because we get to see behind the black curtain we understand, because there's a lot of money doesn't mean that life, when examined, is one that we would call successful. And so we give all this credit for monetary success without examining the quality of their life. And I believe and I know that you do too is that alignment of your money increases the quality of the life. And I believe and I know that you do too is that alignment of your money increases the quality of the values and how you're living your life when you align it with what's truly most important to you. But you got to figure that out first, and not what TikTok or somebody else, or even your family, tells you is important. What do you want?

Speaker 1:

And that's what, with the right financial planner, you get is hey, I need to be work with someone I'm comfortable saying I feel so insecure about this. Or you say I'm doing okay, I don't feel like it, Because a lot of our profession is built on intimidation, Like, hey, we're really powerful, Thus you should trust us with your millions of dollars of accounts, and so that kind of professional financial work style is not a great fit. To come in and say I know you, tell me I have enough to retire, but it just doesn't feel like that to me. And if you can't express your vulnerabilities, your insecurities, then you can't address them and your financial professional should be adapting and assisting in your. You know your true sense of how you're feeling and so like, just like, we want to be admired. What does that feedback If you don't feel like you're making admirable choices? That results in insecurity. That results in lower self-worth when it comes to money, which is such a big deal in America.

Speaker 2:

No, it's huge and I think what happens and it's very interesting because I shared with you before we started. I had an opportunity to lead advisors. I'm the adjunct professor for CFP, which is amazing, you teach the CFP.

Speaker 1:

That's so cool.

Speaker 2:

Here's what I've learned. It's I've learned that unless you're a professional is I've learned that unless you're a professional, can take complicated things and make it very straightforward and simple. In fact, I was complimenting if you haven't listened to Melissa's podcast on her retirement it was fantastic. And what I was complimenting was the fact she's able to take a very complex topic and make it very straightforward and understandable. And that doesn't make Melissa simple. That makes her very bright, because it's much easier. And we find it too often in our in our industry, sadly, where if somebody really doesn't know meaning of stuff, if you're a financial advisor saying it's you can retire because I said so and you're feeling I told you you can retire, you know, and they hurt Just trust me, just trust me.

Speaker 2:

Go find somebody that will listen to you and they can take complex down to very simple and straightforward. And if you don't understand it, the way that I'm explaining it to you, ask me to explain it to you again and ask me to explain it to you in a different way. And your financial advisor should make you feel comfortable enough and safe enough that if they have to say the same thing three times until you're brave, we all hear things differently through different filters in your life filter is different than my life filter. So whoever you're working with should be patient, because until you have that type of trusted relationship, it's going to be hard to get to that really joyful level of interaction with your money.

Speaker 1:

It is so true. And I will tell you one of the things I say I'm sure you do too, shannon when I'm going over this isn't like, oh, could you retire in 10 years? But like, okay, we're a year or two out, or maybe it's three months out and retirement is getting ready is like, hey, you may need me to have a whole nother meeting with you on the exact same topic, because this is such a big deal to you. Retirement planning done right Isn't just like, yeah, you got enough. Like, just trust me, it's, it's more complicated than that. Where's the money going to come from for next year and where is the money going to come from for the year after that?

Speaker 1:

And sometimes, because it's such a big deal to just hear you're going to be okay, you can do this, the game plans on everything else is just like washes out of the room, because you are like, oh, my God, I'm going to be okay or I'm not, but I need to do this, and that you like all the details fall apart and that is psychology, right, like, and so you know, just starting off like, hey, it's normal. If we go over this three times, I'm going to spend a long time today and a little bit more next time over the same thing.

Speaker 2:

And it's such a psychological transition that most people don't talk about. You actually addressed it in your podcast. That it's one of those things I believe is probably one of the biggest psychological transitions to walk away. We know we walk away from our jobs and we go into retirement. If it's a year or two, especially in the technology age we're in, we fall behind. We won't be able to walk back in and earn at the same level and it is terrifying, even if you know you have enough and you need to talk to an advisor that you trust and you're ready to go this.

Speaker 2:

The first six months, the first year of retirement when you go from, it's psychologically is difficult to go from earn having your income coming in to now living off assets. So you told your brain can't touch. You can't touch, that's for retirement. Now you've got it. It is so difficult so you need a partner, a coach, that doesn't just understand. By the way, I'm sorry, I. You know we're licensed portfolio managers. I manage at the discretion I think you do as well. That is not the hard part of what I do. The hard part of what I do is not asset allocation. I got to tell you not hard, it's human response to money is what's hard, and so you better be with somebody who really knows you, because when it gets spunky and it will through retirement, through ups and downs of markets, the key is going to be that psychological response to your money. Money has feelings.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and having someone who has gone through it before, you know, shannon, you and I haven't retired, we've just guided people in the journey. Fortunately I see it as an advantage over decades. So then you can say you know, I know the five years before and five years after retirement are likely they're the pivot points that are the hardest to nail. Different issues come up earlier, later. It's always helpful to simplify wherever you can, because then you have more space and time to really dig in to whatever complexity presents itself in your life. Sometimes it's recurring, sometimes it's it's recurring, sometimes it's just incidental and it's happening at a certain point in time. But unless you can make that space then, um, you know, you're certainly prone to reactive, overreactive. You know kind of actions.

Speaker 2:

Which could kill a retirement plan and and and there's no guarantees. You were taught the year you decide to retire could be the beginning of 22 or of oh, eight, Like when we have good down markets, and to retire and then watch portfolios go down. You better have a partner that can get you through that, because you may make a mistake that would permanently hurt a long-term retirement. So the psychological aspects of things isn't soft and I remember when I was first in the business. I remember thinking, oh, everybody really wants me to talk about returns and it was the late 90s and it was stock and all that stuff and that's where it's at.

Speaker 2:

I'm like that's not where it's at. It's our emotional response to money that can blow up a retirement plan if you don't have the right partner. And it sounds serious because I think it is serious. I've watched people do it over the years. So, um, I think the the, the recommendations and the guidance that you and your team give Melissa, um, and I hope I give as well.

Speaker 1:

In your book, though I now there's so many more people can that can get access to these words of wisdom. What chapter is your favorite chapter in the book? Okay, so.

Speaker 2:

I wrote the book and my father, whom I lost at a young age, who I loved dearly, used to say hey, shannon, that was a great story, that was a great explanation, this was a great podcast. However, what's the bottom line? Narrow it down for me, because we have such short attention spans. Now he said give me the bullet points. So at the very end of the book I wrote something called Money Smarts in honor of my father and it's kind of like with notes. I went through and said chapter one, this is what I want you to get out. Chapter two this is what I want you to get out. Here are the lessons, and if you want to go read the stories and the anecdotes and get the in-depth, go back and do it, but hear the life lessons that have taken decades for me to learn as a financial advisor. I'm going to give you those, as you would say, melissa Pearls.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to give those to you up front.

Speaker 1:

Well, that is just like a really great financial planning meeting, right Like? You can talk about feelings. You can talk about dreams and hopes, um irritations, but at the end you need a bullet pointed list of the things we're going to get done. Hopefully, some of them are off of your plate and on the advisor's plate. So I love it that you have that summary section. I think that's the way the world works today, but that's a good thing, that's progress, that's integration, integration. And then you can flip back when you say I love this book, but check out that last chapter. It's a great gift for the holidays, um, and we have a little independent bookshop, um, online.

Speaker 1:

Um that supports a local bookstore here, so we're going to make sure that there's a link to that in um the podcast. So you wouldn't even if you wanted to order a few coffees for your kids or your family members or that person in your family who's just always stressed out about money, as well as for yourself, you can put that order in.

Speaker 1:

Shannon can you give me your contact information, of course, where to find the book, but then also, which will also be in the show notes, but then also where to find you doing amazing work that you do.

Speaker 2:

Oh, thanks, Melissa. The best place is everything's on my website. It's Shannon-Ryan S-H-A-N-N-O-N-R-Y-A-Ncom, and you can find information on the book and and other writings that I've done in speaking engagements in the TED Talk. So thank you, Melissa, so much for having me today. This has been such a fun conversation.

Speaker 1:

Well, I'm going to be recommending your book early and often, as I said, kudos for being a woman writing in personal finance. We need more of these voices because, you know, there's not it's not like we have here's the female perspective on how to do personal finance. We all work with the same basic technical foundations of financial planning but for you know, more than 50% of our population. They need to know that our voices exist. They need to know that they can speak confidently about money and feel confident about their own money. So the work that you're doing is so important, such an accomplishment, but something that I know that we need. So thank you, shannon, for writing the book.

Speaker 3:

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Melissa Joy, CFP

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