She's Just Like Us...But She Flies Fighter Jets ✈️ Why Michelle "MACE" Curran's Biggest Battle was with Imposter Syndrome

Join us for a powerful conversation with Michelle “MACE” Curran, Air Force Veteran, Former Fighter Pilot, and lead solo for the Thunderbirds turned speaker and author.

Today Michelle shares her incredible journey of battling imposter syndrome in a male-dominated space, and now as an author and speaker, how she helps others rise above life’s challenges by getting off autopilot and taking deliberate action.

Together we discuss:

✈️ How taking bold action is the key to building confidence, not the other way around.

🚀 Why embracing small, bold choices can lead to massive personal and professional growth.

🛡️ How a high-achieving mindset can sometimes set you up for failure later in life if you don’t build resilience.

🧭 The importance of defining your "why" to confidently navigate external judgment and the fear of disappointing others.

💫 How to turn fear into a superpower and overcome the feeling of being stuck or living with unrealized potential.

This is a must-listen for any high-achieving woman ready to redefine success on her own terms and live a life of purpose-driven action.

⬇️⬇️⬇️

You can connect with Michelle "MACE" Curran and pre-order her new book, The Flipside: How to Invert Your Perspective and Turn Fear into Your Superpower, at www.macecurran.com/flipside and on Instagram @mace_curran!

Connect with Kate: mskatehouse.com | @mskatehouse | mastermind | courses | speaking | FREE overcoming overwhelm masterclass

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Thank you so much. Hey Mace, welcome to the podcast. I am so excited to have you here today.

SPEAKER_01: 0:28

Thank you for having me. I know all the things I talk about and I'm about are really going to align with your show. And so I'm just really grateful to be here.

SPEAKER_00: 0:36

Oh my goodness. It's going to be so much fun. When I was getting to know you and your background and just the incredible things that you've done, I was getting more and more excited for this conversation. And then Mace was so kind and understanding because we were supposed to record a week ago. And of course, one of my kids got sick. So I had to send her the like SOS email.

SPEAKER_01: 0:52

We get it.

SPEAKER_00: 0:53

Yes. I appreciate I appreciate it. I appreciate it. So Mace, for anybody who's listening, and maybe they're not yet familiar with the work that you do, the books that you've written, the book that's coming out, which we're so excited about. Can you just tell us a little bit about who you are and what you're all about?

SPEAKER_01: 1:07

Yeah. So my actual name is Michelle Curran, but I'm often referred to by Mace, which is my call sign for my time as a fighter pilot. So I spent about 13 years on active duty in the Air Force, flying fighter jets, three of those years flying for the Air Force Thunderbirds. I was the leads solo for that team during the COVID timeframe, kind of 2019 to 2021 is when I did that. And then three years ago, I left the Air Force to start my own business as an author. I published two children's picture books. And then I have a book coming out here soon that I know we're going to talk more about. That's kind of like my nonfiction adult debut. I have to be careful because I have these kids' books and I talk about the new book and I'm like, it's an adult book. And people are like giving me the raised eyebrows. Like, are you making a foray into OnlyFans? No, not that kind of book. Anyway, get off topic there. But my primary thing with my business, in addition to writing, is being a keynote speaker. And during my time with the Thunderbirds, I was just in this position where I had the honor of inspiring and impacting a lot of people. And I just started to love that so much that I wanted to keep doing it. And so kind of my new mission now is to help people flip how they view fear, overcome self-doubt, tackle things like impostors syndrome and really close the potential gap, which is what I see as the place, the gap between where they currently are and where they have the potential to be. So it's helping people find the courage to take the action to close that gap.

SPEAKER_00: 2:38

I love that. What was it for you? What was your potential gap? What was the thing that kept you from, you know, taking that action in your own life?

SPEAKER_01: 2:48

Yeah, people are always surprised because they saw me go pursue this dream of being a fighter pilot, which is kind of like a pionist guy dream for a lot of people, right? It's like one of those things kids say where they're like, I want to be a rock star or a fighter pilot, a professional YouTuber, where you're like, those things do exist. The odds of getting to those positions are just pretty small. And I set that dream. The odds were against me. I did it. But then as I got there, I really found myself just hyper analyzing how I showed up in this very male dominated type A kind of environment, which is not what I am in multiple. multiple aspects, I'm pretty reserved and introverted and shy. And I'm also a woman, if you can't tell from, from my voice on the podcast, but I found myself just hyper analyzing how I showed up in this high performance type, a male dominated environment. Um, and that really sent me into this path of feeling like an imposter, right? Like the cliche of, I know it's a buzzword, imposter syndrome, buzz phrase, but it was very much what I was experiencing. Just being like, I don't deserve to be in this role. How the heck did I get here? here, but I had been at the top of my class in training. I had demonstrated all the things at a high level. I deserved the positions I got, but the higher I got up and the more the expectations grew and the performance of the people around me got higher as I moved into these different units, my self-doubt started to creep in. And so, yes, I achieved this big goal, but the potential gap for me once I was there is that I really found myself shying away from opportunities. Say it's to lead a mission airborne, or it's to go be the project officer in charge of some specific thing, whatever it is, all of these things that really help you grow in your career, I would shy away from those because they came with a chance of failure. And it felt like this massive vulnerability because it was going to expose me where people could potentially realize I wasn't the person that should be in the job.

SPEAKER_00: 4:48

Yeah. And that's the thing with imposter syndrome, right? Is that

SPEAKER_01: 4:50

fear of exposure. Absolutely. And you like physically... Anyone that's been in that position knows what it feels like. It is like a physiological reaction when you have those moments where you know you should do something, you should speak up in a meeting and share your idea, or you should put your name in the hat for a promotion or whatever that looks like. And then that fear paralyzes you and you shy away from it. And then after the moment passes, you feel guilty because you know you should have done it. And you're like, what am I so scared of? But then it happens again and again, and it can just leave Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 5:54

Yeah, that's amazing. And you're like, okay, how do I bridge this? I love how you say the potential gap. How do you get yourself from feeling that desire of like, I want to put my name in the ring, but you don't to actually taking the action?

SPEAKER_01: 6:38

Yeah, my big thing is that you have to start small, because there are like, say it's a scale of one to 10. There are level 10 risks and opportunities you can go after. And those might have massive rewards. But often they also have bigger risks. repercussions if you fail. And if you do go after that, either it's so scary and daunting that you will never actually find the courage to do it. Or if you do have this moment of like, I'm just going to be brave for 10 seconds and send the email. And then it doesn't work out. It like scares you so much. It pushes you back into this like cave of, well, that wasn't worth it. I'm not going to do that again. So I talk about small, bold choices and military loves acronyms. So I that is like the smallest thing you can do that moves you towards what your end goal is so maybe that end goal is to just close the potential gap or maybe it's something more specific it's to grow in your career or it's to start a new hobby and for me i ended up starting to do these really small bold things so my kind of threshold for the b in sbcs is if it should feel slightly uncomfortable right like it should feel like you're a beginner like you have to learn like You have to stretch, but it shouldn't be so uncomfortable that it's paralyzing. And a lot of times it's something you could literally do right now, today, right? You can make that phone call. You can send that email. You can send that resume in. And so for me, I've moved bases. So to give you a little bit of background, I'm at my first operational squadron in Japan, and I have gone through years and years of training, all the wickets of competing to get a fighter jet, which to put that in perspective, there were only two available for my class of 25 students, so it was very competitive. I got one of those, beat the odds, go to learn the F-16. It's much more challenging than the training aircraft I was flying. Now I get to my first squadron, and being a high achiever, being a good student, getting this fighter jet, I was just getting a lot of accolades and wins, even though I was working my butt off. It was a hard environment. Now I get to the actual squadron, and everyone around me is an experienced fighter pilot. Everyone was the best in their class.

SPEAKER_03: 8:54

And

SPEAKER_01: 8:55

now I'm just like average. And now I'm not just average, but I'm a beginner. So I'm bad. Yeah. I'm just bad. And so that is when I really struggled with those things I mentioned of just like so much self-doubt, holding myself back from opportunities. After three years there, I'm very burned out because I've constantly been letting myself down. I also feel like I've been dressing up as a fighter pilot and trying to show up at work as something that I really wasn't. Pretending to like sports so I could be part of the conversations with the guys or pretending to be assertive and type A or pretending that like a sexist joke didn't make me uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00: 9:33

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01: 9:34

There's a lot of pretending and not authentic behavior happening on my part. And a lot of that was my own fault. Some of it's the environment. I moved to my next base in Texas. And I kind of have this pivotal moment where I realize this is an entirely new group of people. I now am a flight lead, which means I could lead four jets into a combat mission if I had to. I have experience under my belt. And I'm also just burned out of pretending. And I'm burned out of feeling that gap of knowing I have more potential than I'm showing up with. And so I have this distinct moment in this move, which really acted as a catalyst where I'm just like, I'm going to show up in this squadron as a person I want to be.

SPEAKER_03: 10:18

It's

SPEAKER_01: 10:21

almost like a fresh start. And I know everyone doesn't have that opportunity. But I think we can create them for ourselves in smaller ways sometimes. And it was like a really distinct moment in my mind. And I started doing that first, just in my hobbies in this new city. So I moved to Fort Worth. I don't know anyone there besides my new squadron I'm flying with. And I wanted to get into a lot of different things that just weren't accessible in Japan or I didn't have time for. So I started to learn how to rock climb. And I took volunteering courses. I did a solo trip to Nepal, joined up with a group and did the trek to Everspace camp, which was great. Freaking awesome. One of the coolest trips I've ever been on. But those things at that time felt bold to me.

SPEAKER_03: 11:30

And

SPEAKER_01: 11:31

every one of those that I did was just empowering. And those small, bold choices on kind of the personal side of my life started to give me more and more confidence on the professional side as well, where I started to make little, bold moves there, volunteering to do things, going through an upgrade where I became an instructor pilot, which is really challenging. And so I did that for about 18 months. So relatively short amount of time in the big scheme of things. And I think the person that left Japan would not have even recognized who I was a year and a half later. The growth that happened in that timeframe, definitely the most rapid growth period I've ever gone through in my life. And I really do feel like I just decided that it was time for that to happen. Yeah. A little uncomfortable, but so worth it.

SPEAKER_00: 12:22

I love that. But I love too, I What you said about the SBCs, the small, bold choices, is that you didn't leave. It seems to me like you didn't leave Japan and you're like, in 18 months, I want to be this future alter ego of myself. It was just like, what is the next SBC? Because I sometimes think we're told, what's your five-year vision or whatever? If that feels so big, we get stuck. And we're in inaction because we're like, I don't even know how to do that. But I love that you started with, I always like to say, the low Yep. Yep. Not like you were like, I'm just going to move to Fort Worth and I'm going to be super confident and do all these things. In your story, you're saying like, no, the confidence was developed through the doing. And so many of us, I think, feel like, well, we should just feel confident and then we'll do the things. But it's actually the other way around. Does that feel right to you?

SPEAKER_01: 13:40

Absolutely. That is one of the things I preach all the time. I think it's like, you know, anyone that goes to the gym regularly and lifts weights, like, it's not that strong people show up and decide to go to the gym. It's that they They just, they went to the gym and that's why they're strong, right?

SPEAKER_00: 13:56

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 13:58

You have to go and you have to not know what you're doing. And it's that repetition of like growing that muscle of training your brain to believe in yourself and to be okay figuring things out and to have resilience when things don't go your way. That takes repetition just like a muscle in the body does.

SPEAKER_00: 14:15

Yeah. Will you speak to that resilience muscle a little bit? Because I think that too is where some of us get stuck where we're like, well, I took that bold action, but I got it. know, right? And then like you said, then we get stuck in this cycle of doubt or questioning ourselves or our abilities or worst case scenario, we're like, oh, no, that just affirms what I thought about myself and that I'm not capable, right? And you're like, wait, but I think I am.

SPEAKER_01: 14:40

But we for sure get stuck in our own heads. And then we choose what data we pull around us. It's the confirmation bias, right? We're like, well, I don't believe in myself. So I'm only going to pay attention to the signals that tell me that that's true. Even when someone I really respect might come up and tell me that I'm doing awesome and then they believe in me, I'm going to set my respect aside for a second just to be like, I don't believe them because that confirms the belief or lack of belief in myself. Yeah. So it was one of those things that just took practice. And I think growing up and being, I was an adventurous kid. My parents always say I was like a really easy kid. Like I was just so motivated. I wanted to get straight A's. I did that, all the things. And I think that's great. It gave me the opportunities to get an ROTC scholarship, which got me my pilot slot. But one of the things I don't think I built at a young age was resilience because I never really failed at anything until I got to Japan. And now when I'm failing at that level, the consequences are high.

SPEAKER_00: 15:47

Right. Yeah. Because it's very different than getting like a B in sophomore year of high school.

SPEAKER_01: 15:51

A hundred percent. And I think about that with My stepson who's 12 and I think one of the biggest gifts you can give as a parent is to let your kids experience that adversity and not make the team or fail on the test. You know, like whatever, like we, of course we want this kid who's just a shining star. They're like the best athlete. They're the straight A student. They're just all the things. But personally, having been one of those kids, it can set you up for failure later in life because those lessons are tough to learn when you're in a career. where decisions really matter. And I think that's what I went through. And I had to experience that I could fail, that I could feel like I was at a really low point, and that I could dig myself out of it. And I think that's where that growth period in Fort Worth happened is because those three years in Japan, I had experienced a lot of adversity. I'd really been in a low point. And it had allowed me to start to experience what resilience really meant. And I don't think I would have had the perspective then because I felt like I was doing all the right things, but I was lacking grit. I could do well on the physical fitness test and I could run really fast and push my body and do all the pushups and set these big goals, but I was lacking resilience when it came to failing, when it came to the feelings of shame or embarrassment or judgment of other people. I was very fragile around those things. And I had to kind of go through that fire to just fortify those skills and learn how to do them as an adult.

SPEAKER_00: 17:30

Yeah, it's so true. I think I similarly, well, I'm not a fighter pilot, we should say, but I can identify with, you know, being the high achiever, the straight A student, you know, the Phi Beta Kappa graduate, right? And then you get out into the workforce and you're like, oh, wait, but I'm not perfect at this, but I'm pretty sure I did everything you said I should do. So like, why am I not a shining all-star anymore, right? And then, yeah, it's It's really a lot of self-reflection. And I love that, you know, you took that season, those 18 months. I mean, it's incredible how much you can change in 18 months, right? When you give yourself permission. And it almost sounds like maybe a little bit of curiosity. Like when you said, you know, I tried mountaineering and I learned how to rock climb and, you know, gave yourself permission to be curious about the things that you're like, oh, this might be kind of fun or this might be interesting, right? And sometimes I think, too, we try something and sometimes we learn like, oh, I don't like that thing. Exactly. That's okay too. Has that ever happened to you?

SPEAKER_01: 18:25

Yeah, definitely. I think, well, it's been interesting this evolution I've had with flying because that was my end all be all goal as a ROTC college student was to become a fighter pilot. And I went and I did that. And now I'm in a dream job for most people. I've achieved the thing I set out to achieve. And from the exterior, everyone watches Top Gun and they're like, that's the coolest job ever.

SPEAKER_03: 18:50

And

SPEAKER_01: 18:52

then I fast forward and I've been doing it for a decade. I, you know, to close the gap between that 18 months in Fort Worth, I spent three years there. And at the end of that three-year assignment is when I saw the email that the Thunderbirds were hiring. And it was something that had always intrigued me. Yeah. But in the past, whenever I had like seen they were hiring or someone had brought it up in conversation, I had those two conflicting feelings of that sounds really fun and exciting. I'm not good enough to do that kind of flying. Right. Look at all the public judgment that would come with being in that position. Yeah, that imposter's voice gets really loud. to put in an application to try to go to that team. And I do that. I get to the Thunderbirds. I'm doing the coolest flying around, in my opinion. It is hard. I'm a beginner again. There's a little bit of a shock there. Once you get your arms around the flying, it's just really fun and exciting. You're upside down, 100 feet off the ground, flying just under the speed of sound, a few feet from other airplanes. It's like nothing I'd done in the Air Force before. And I get partway through that assignment, which I ended up spending three years there. And I'm realizing I don't love it anymore. And this is the thing I'm supposed to love. This is the thing that everyone around me is like, that's so freaking cool. Congratulations. And on the inside, I'm like, I'm starting to feel where it's no longer aligned with my end goal and my values of what I really want to contribute to the world. And it was the most amazing experience. I'm very grateful for the time there and all the great people I got to work with and just the crazy stuff. But I left flying. I didn't go on to fly for the airlines. I didn't stay in the Air Force and go back to a combat squadron flying gray F-16s after the Thunderbirds, which I think was shocking to a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02: 21:05

But

SPEAKER_01: 21:06

I had found that flying of all things, which had been just like what my whole life revolved around for 13 years, was no longer the thing for me.

SPEAKER_00: 21:17

Yeah. But, you know, if I were to reflect back, I think what is so cool, though, is that when you had, how did you put it? Yeah. Like, I'm going to do my next SBC. And you realize like, oh, this isn't an alignment anymore. And I mean, that must have been, I mean, it gives me like goosebumps to think about it. Like, I can't imagine the fortitude and the resilience it took to walk away from that career where maybe the expectation was, well, you wouldn't step away from it, right? And to say confidently, you know, no, I want to go in this other direction. I mean, what a beautiful example.

SPEAKER_01: 22:18

I felt very clear that it was the right decision for me. Like, My purpose, which I shared at the beginning of the show, became so clear that I was like, I am the right person at the right time, just lucky enough to be in this position where I can see how this can have a massive impact if I transition to the civilian side and I get to tell my story and I get to build my business focused on doing that. But there's a lot of other people's outside opinions that are very loud at that point. And I mean, you have for, I guess, the least level of impact, I have the general real public right uh-huh the people chiming in on social media they're like what are you doing how would you like I would give my right arm to have that job and you're choosing to leave it like what's wrong with you yeah but then I have like family raising eyebrows and then I have the people I work with which were probably like the the loudest voices to me because these are my peers we trust each other with our lives I admire a lot of them a lot of them have a very like I don't want to say strict. That's not the right word. They have a very defined version of what success in the Air Force looks like. It's being the best tactical fighter pilot. It's moving up in rank. It's becoming a squadron commander. All those things. And we need those people. But that just no longer felt like it was the way that I could have the biggest impact. And it no longer felt like it was the thing that I personally wanted to do. And it felt like a leap of courage, not necessarily to take the risk of leaving the security of a government paycheck and all the benefits, but more so the risk of disappointing people or being like, this is what I'm going to go do and then potentially failing at it.

SPEAKER_00: 24:05

Yeah, totally. How did you manage that? Because I know there are a lot of women in my community. Something I hear from them often is this fear of judgment, this fear of letting people down, which I hear a lot in us high achievers, right? And so how did you navigate Right. Did you have the conversations with the people, you know, that really matter? Not necessarily the stranger on the Internet who's like, well, what are you doing? Right. But, you know, the colleagues that you respect and admire and even family members. I hear a lot from my community as well as they're like, I have this thing on my heart. I want to pursue it. But like my, you know, sister's going to judge me or my mom's not going to understand or my partner's not going to get it. What would just be like how did you navigate that or what encouragement would you say to that person? I. I

SPEAKER_01: 24:53

think when I defined my why very clearly and I had these stories from my time as a Thunderbird where I could just see that impact happen and I knew how that was going to end if I stayed in the Air Force and I knew how I could translate that if I got out. Once I kind of shared those moments, family members were like, okay, that sounds awesome. Like we're on board. It was probably just like a little bit of being surprised, but then like this all makes sense. And they've been amazingly supportive I think for my peers, the people that matter that are actual friends that actually care about me as a person outside of the specific role I was in at the time, they have gotten on board and they are like cheering me on from the side. They see the impact happening. The people that don't get it. I just remind myself that they're not my target audience. Yeah. Right. They're not your people. No, those like my message isn't going to be for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I have to remind myself of that because Because I do get, you know, negative comments sometimes. And it's easy to let those create an emotional reaction. that person, if they're even a person, is not your target audience. And I bring myself back to those moments I got to have with, especially little girls, while I was with the Thunderbirds and just flying an air show, going up to the fence afterwards, doing an autograph session, having parents bring their daughters up. And this six, seven, eight-year-old, kind of the core age group where they would be pretty shy and a little bit scared of me. And then a lot of times the mom would drag them up there and be like, look, She just flew that jet, that jet that went upside down, that like rocketed up towards the sky. That was her. And you could see the light bulb moment happen for these kids. And it was just like, wait, what I can do just got bigger. Like the possibilities in the world just expanded for me. And it was, I know that's a gift to them, but seeing that moment happen in real time in front of my eyes was like the most fulfilling, rewarding gift to me as well. just knew that there were more ways to do that for kids and for adults. What do you want to do as a human on the earth in your lifetime? What is it really all about? What are we doing here?

SPEAKER_00: 27:37

Yeah, because our time is so limited. Yeah. And I love how you say that when your why was so defined and you articulated it to the people that really mattered to you, that they were like, oh, yeah, I see that. I get behind that. And so having that clearly defined why but then I just think about like oh I love picturing the little girls like up at the fence right but then to think about you know the two well three books now that you've written but the first two for children like I think about like visually I try to picture like the thousands of children that have been impacted by that work right so like those little girls who are there in person amazing right but just like I mean you can probably like 100x that with the work that you're doing now and speaking of books so tell us a little bit about your children's books.

SPEAKER_01: 28:53

So the first kids book, so they're children's picture books. They're for, you know, anywhere from kids you read to before they go to bed that can't read themselves yet to probably like eight or nine year olds, I would say. They're about a little girl who's eight years old. Her name's Lily Padilly, and she wants to be a fighter pilot. Where this idea came from is my first year on the Thunderbirds. We were at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC. Oh,

SPEAKER_00: 29:15

it's my favorite Smithsonian. It's

SPEAKER_01: 29:16

so good. So good. We're there like doing a meet and greet as the Thunderbirds. So I'm in my show suit. We have a little bit of time. So I go in the bookstore and it's just such a cool place all of this space and aviation like anything from freeze-dried ice cream to flight suits like you can get so much cool stuff there they have a big book section and I'm looking at the children's books and there's just not really any that have a female protagonist that little girls are going to relate to there's some about Amelia Earhart of course right which I think the history is important but it's hard for a six-year-old to connect with the historical figure yes it's just kind of a different thing and I'm like I want to write a kid's picture book about a little girl that wants to be a fighter pilot. Yes. So that's in 2019. The pandemic happens in 2020 and I have a little bit of downtime because our schedule was just insane. And so there was just no time to focus on anything else. Being home in quarantine, I was like, yeah, let's work on this. Yeah. Might as well write the book. So, you know, kids books, six to 750 words, like not the same as writing a 70,000 word book, like flip side. Of course. So I work on this manuscript. I have some great people I can bounce ideas off of and I'm like I'm going to start submitting this to literary agents I had no idea how publishing worked I'm like hey I'm the lead solo for the Air Force Thunderbirds I have this book blah blah blah I send out like 50 pitches and it's just crickets also the publishing world is going through the pandemic too so it's just like not the time to be doing it so I'm like okay well this is going to be harder than I thought air show start back up I'm just super busy again so I kind of just table this edited manuscript which is on my laptop. Fast forward to, I've already decided I'm leaving the Air Force. I have my first keynote speech on the books for right after I leave active duty. So I'm working on this speech and I started to be active on LinkedIn. It's just a great platform for speakers. And you know, like those are your target audience, right? These are business. So I start to create a lot of content on there and I get a message from a fellow author. And I happened to mention that I have this children's book manuscript and she's like, oh, I write children's books. Let me connect you with my publisher. Like skip the agent. Let's just go straight to the publisher. It's like a smaller women run publishing company. I get connected with them. They're called Endgame Press. And they were just like, we love this. Let's do it. Oh, that's so amazing. It was awesome. So the book was brought to life. It was a year later from that point. So like June of 2023 that it finally released after having had the idea in 2019. Wrote the manuscript in 2020. So it's a process. That one, they liked it so much. They're like, let's do a second one, which is called What's Your Call Sign? You know, about fighter pilot nicknames. And so it's the same characters. But yeah, the books have been really well received. It's been a great way to stay connected with kids since most of the speaking that I do is for corporations. So that was kind of like, that just came from that spark of inspiration that I had there in Space Museum. But then it's like, okay, now we have two of these. and then it's like I'm doing these speeches the the Reception is really incredible. I talk about self-doubt. I'm talking about vulnerability, all these things that people don't expect from a fighter pilot or a Thunderbird pilot, but it's combined with these like edge of the seat flying stories that people are just like fascinated by. And

SPEAKER_00: 32:45

from a female perspective, which we haven't heard a

SPEAKER_01: 32:48

lot of. Yeah. Right. And like, I mean, I'm just getting great feedback from everyone, but especially like so many women are coming up afterwards. Just like, I feel like you wrote that for me. I'm going to go do this because of it. And then I did it for long enough, people would start to follow up and be like, I saw you speak six months ago. Here's what I did because of it. And here's what happened. Like, here's the outcome. It's like, this is the coolest thing. I would get so excited when I got those messages. Of course. So people are like, do you have a book? Do you have a book? I'm like, well, I have kids books, but they're like an adult, right? They don't want to read a picture book for a seven-year-old. So I'm like, I do have so many more stories. I have so many more lessons that I can't fit in a 45 minute keynote and people are wanting more. So I start to explore what it would look like to write a book. Like how does the proposal process work? How do all the things. So that has been almost three years ago now. It'll be three years in August. So when this episode airs, it'll have been three years ago. Yeah. I ended up working with a ghostwriter because I needed to sort through all this stuff in my head. Of course. So to have an outside party who's just like an expert, like be able to discuss these stories, be able to reflect on what I learned from them. It was like a therapy session working with her. Oh

SPEAKER_00: 34:08

my gosh. I can only imagine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 34:10

It was awesome. I have no regrets. People are like, does it feel weird to you that you like you're a single seat fighter pilot and you like relied on this ghostwriter to help you? And I was like, think about all the things we take on where we reach out to experts to help us do it. Writing a book is a massive undertaking. It is a legacy. It is something I don't want just like a business card book that's just checking a box. I want this to be a bestseller. I want it to impact people. I want it to change lives. Why would I not work with the best people I can to help me do that? So her name's Jen. She's amazing. We get a publishing deal with one of the top, the big five publishers, which I was just like, I'm on cloud nine. I'm like, I can't believe this is happening. Oh man, now I actually have to write the rest of this book, deliver a 70,000 word manuscript, like giddy up, here we go. We did that for the next six months or so, all the rounds of edits. And then it finally comes out

SPEAKER_00: 35:10

September 9th. Oh my goodness. So friends, if you're listening to this and you're like, Mesa's speaking my language and she's like exhibiting what I want to grow into, somebody who is confident, somebody who's resilient. So much of what I'm hearing from your publishing journey is resilience, right? Like you sent out all those pitches. Right. And writing the flip side and that taking three years to come to fruition. Right. A lot of these things that we work towards that leave a legacy. Right. That have so much impact. Take time. Right. And we live in such a world of like instant gratification. So like if you want to be somebody who is resilient like Mace and who is taking action and creating that confidence, make sure you have that. you pre-order the book. I was on Mesa's website earlier today. You can literally pre-order it everywhere you get books. And I know you have some really incredible value that you're giving to everybody who pre-orders. Do you want to tell us a little bit about those? Because I was reading your website and my jaw was just dropping. I'm like, I'm so excited for all of this.

SPEAKER_01: 36:16

Yeah, it is. I've learned so much about publishing. And one of the big things is just how important pre-orders are. And before I wrote this book, I would see other people pushing pre-orders. And I'm like, well, why wouldn't I wait till a the book releases, then I'll order it on Amazon. It'll show up the same day. Like, heck yeah, immediate gratification here for that. So pre-orders, A, for most people, that is what determines if they make the New York Times bestseller list, which is, I'm all about telling people my goals now, even if they're like big and audacious, because then the bright people show up to help you make them happen. I want to make the New York Times bestseller list. That is how the book gets in the most people's hands. It has that impact. So those are primarily, based on pre-sales. It also signals to the publisher how big the first print run is. It signals to places like Target that they should actually put in their stores, not just on the website. So there's my spiel for pre-orders. They're so important. So to get that across to people, because I don't always have the opportunity to explain for three minutes what they are and how important they are, I did some pre-order bonus incentives. It's a bunch of cool stuff. It's a discussion guide. So it's like a workbook, PDF that takes you through different exercises along with the book. It's a behind the scenes interview between Jen and I, my ghostwriter. Cool. And we talk about the hard parts, like the challenging subjects and trying to navigate, like, how much do I talk about the challenges of being a woman in that

SPEAKER_03: 37:42

environment?

SPEAKER_01: 37:43

Like, how do we do all of this? So we, you know, got in a studio and talked about all of that. There's a Spotify playlist, which seems like the most obscure thing, but people really love it. They're like, it just goes along with the themes of the book and it's like a fun little insight into people's preferences when you get to find out what music they choose absolutely yeah and then access to the first chapter is like one of my favorite things because as soon as someone pre-orders and they fill out the little form on the website they instantly get a link to go read the first chapter and they don't have to wait till september 9th until the book ships so that was a long spiel the full title is the flip side how to invert your perspective and turn fear into your superpower and people are like what type of a book is it it's really memoir mated with self-help because every chapter has a story cool stories about almost g-locking in the jet which is going unconscious from the g-forces story about hitting a bird with a six-foot wingspan and putting holes in the airplane like and those are some of the more extreme ones almost a near head-on collision that we had on the thunderbirds like they're compelling intriguing stories but everyone it's like what did i learn from that what are the tools and like the mindset hacks and all the things that helped me move forward from that and how do these translate into someone who's not in a high-speed aircraft yeah what tools can they use in their everyday life yeah and every chapter ends with these two columns where it's the script side is what we call it which are like the stale scripts in your tell yourself right the track that we have that's just not helpful and then it's Next to it, it's got the flip side. Like how we can flip how we view fear, how we can flip how we view failure, how we can choose to respond in a productive way when things go awry. Like there's just so many useful things. I'm like 10% terrified because it's like putting a baby out into the world. Of course, it's like your heart

SPEAKER_00: 39:49

in a book.

SPEAKER_01: 39:49

Yeah, it's like 270 some pages of vulnerability, right? And of course we'll be critics, but I'm 90% excited because I know there's so many people that it's going to resonate with.

SPEAKER_00: 40:01

Oh, it's amazing. Well, I love to, I'm really excited to read it because I love books like that where I can sit down, I read a ridiculous amount, but I love a book where I can sit down in bed and I know every night I can read one chapter and learn something and reflect and then I can put it down and then like the next day I'll find myself kind of like mulling over what was learned and then later that night I get to sit down and then read the next chapter, right? And so it just can continue to build on itself and What I love about your pre-order incentives is that it really helps us. So many of us I find in the overachieving community, you know, we like to call it overlearning in my community. You know, we've listened to all the books on all the podcasts and the audio books and whatever, but then we don't actually implement. And so I love that you have this, you know, the, was it the script and the flip side? Yeah, the script side and the flip side. think about what we're learning to use your workbook to implement it in our own lives because that's kind of where the magic happens right it's in the people that listen to you speak and they're like I'm gonna go do this thing right like oh my gosh and I can't wait for like when you're a New York Times bestseller and then the notes you get back from women three months out from when the book drops six months out and when they're telling you all the things that they did like oh my gosh like you're changing the world it's so cool I

SPEAKER_01: 41:24

cannot wait like yeah it's I feel like I'm living in just a series of pinch me moments right now like the fact that this book is actually real that it's like being printed i'm you know by the time this airs i will have gotten the actual first copies physically mailed to me a complete book i have a mock-up behind me in this video and that like i've had a few people preview it who are working with maybe it's like my publicist or people that are working on it in different ways and the fact from them has been so awesome that it just gets me more and more

SPEAKER_00: 41:55

excited it's amazing have you thought about So one thing we like to talk about here is how we celebrate when we have these big milestones because it can be so hard for us high achievers because we're just like onto the next thing. Yes. How are you going to celebrate?

SPEAKER_01: 42:07

Yeah. So everyone's like, you're going to need to take a vacation. The hard thing as a keynote speaker is that the book releases September 9th. September to like the first couple of weeks of November is prime speaking convention season.

SPEAKER_00: 42:20

Yep. So you're going to be super busy. I'm going to be busy.

SPEAKER_01: 42:22

But my husband and I booked a trip, just the two of us in December to go to Thailand oh so cool and it's amazing we're recording this in what is it June right now so it's still so far away but it was like I he's like are you sure you want to get that on the I was like yes I need this thing waiting for me at the end of one of the craziest years ever

SPEAKER_03: 42:45

yeah

SPEAKER_01: 42:46

just to like a time I've been running kind of ragged like just traveling a ton super busy so it's important for us to have that time to reconnect but also to just like Like we're doing it. Yeah. It's a thing. We're doing the thing like this. Like I'm was not good for a really long time at celebrating wins, especially smaller wins. Yep. But now I like make a point in my business, you know, even if it's like booking on a great podcast, right? Yeah. Yeah. Let's celebrate this. And that keeps that motivation going when the schedule and the days and like the time between breaks can be long.

SPEAKER_00: 43:26

Yeah. Oh, I love that so much, Mace. That's so important for us to remember to like to celebrate our wins and the things that we've done. Cause yeah, you're right. It can be, especially the little things that can be hard to celebrate. And then because we haven't gotten used to celebrating along the way, the big thing happens and we're like, oh wait, I should probably celebrate this too. So I'm already picturing you guys like on a beach with like something delicious to drink and eat and just like spending time connecting and just like, just celebrating all that you've done this year. I mean, it's incredible. So as we wrap up this conversation, Mace, like what is just like the one encouragement you would want to leave a listener with? Like for the woman who's listening, who identifies with the imposter syndrome, who identifies with like knowing that she wants and was made for more, but isn't sure how to bridge that potential gap, right? She's not, she's, and she's just feeling a little stuck, but she's hearing you right now. And she's like, oh my gosh, Mace has me so fired up. I'm she does feel so nervous. What, like what encouragement would you tell her?

SPEAKER_01: 44:30

Yeah, there's a line that I say towards the end of my speeches. And it's one that people, I always see people like start writing notes. I think it kind of encompasses all the, like the different themes. And that is that the key to progress is having the courage to start something, even when you don't feel ready, but believing yourself enough to know you will figure it out along the way. It's just that sliver of belief that you need that I don't have all the answers right now.

SPEAKER_00: 45:26

Right. Like, you know, you get like the butterflies or like, you know, my first podcast episode I ever recorded solo. Mind you, I wasn't even talking to anybody. I like sweat through my T-shirt because I was so nervous. Right. But like and recorded on the wrong microphone for the first three episodes. But like you said, like you just have to start and then you keep learning and you keep showing up and you build that confidence. And I love it. You don't have to have all the answers to get started. Right. You can do it a little bit scared.

SPEAKER_01: 45:52

Absolutely. So I think if people would embrace that, there would be so many more people walking around feeling like they were living at where they have the potential to live at.

SPEAKER_00: 46:02

Yeah. Oh, that's so beautiful. Okay. So Mace, as we wrap up, where can folks find you online? I know you've got your website and Instagram are great places to find you. So we'll chat about those and then just tell us again where folks can pre-order the book. Friends, if you enjoyed this conversation and you're even remotely interested in reading, please go pre-order this book. Mace has just such a beautiful heart, so many incredible stories to tell, and you get to be part of something bigger than yourself, right? So buy the book, read it yourself, gift it to somebody. But you get to be part of this bigger movement of empowering and encouraging others as well, which I think is so beautiful. Not only do you get personal enjoyment from reading it, I know I'll be nose deep in it on September 9th, but you get to be part of this bigger movement of empowering others to really step into their potential. It's just so cool.

SPEAKER_01: 46:49

I love that. It's those ripples that we get to create, right? Sometimes that is gifting a book or just sharing a little tidbit that you learn with the person that needs to hear it. So my website is macecurran.com. So just my call sign and my last name. There's a pop-up for the flip side, of course. But if you want to go straight to the flip sides page where you can get those pre-order bonuses and all that, it's macecurran.com slash flip side. Instagram is mace underscore Curran. I'm also on Facebook, but by the same name. I put out a lot of content on LinkedIn. That's just Michelle Mason quotes Curran. I try to have solid branding that's the same. So If someone Googles me, all of those things show up. The book is available for pre-order at all the major retailers. Of course, Amazon. It's helpful to diversify where the pre-orders come from. Awesome. All the reasons we mentioned. So Barnes& Noble is great. Books A Million is great. If you know an indie bookstore, an independent bookstore, and they happen to have it available for pre-order, that's amazing. Yeah, so it's all over the place. It's on Target, all of the places.

SPEAKER_00: 47:54

Oh, that's amazing. I have this feeling too that your book is going to be one of those books that find people when they need it like you ever have like a pile I like collect books it's a problem I collect them faster than I can read them but sometimes like I'll have had a book on my bookshelf for like six months or something and I'm and I didn't read it when I got it but then I'm like I just feel called to read this book right like there's something about it that speaks to you and you pick it up and you start reading it and you're like oh my gosh this is exactly what I needed to hear like I feel like your book is going to be one of those where like somebody reads it themselves and then a friend comes over and they're like oh what's this book on your bookshelf right and they start flipping through it and then they're like this is the book I needed right in this moment like the impact potential is just incredible

SPEAKER_01: 48:37

I hope so I'm excited to hear those stories and yeah that is the whole point of all of this so yeah yeah September 9th I'm excited

SPEAKER_00: 48:46

let the countdown begin well Mace I am so excited for you I'm so grateful to have had this conversation and to just get to be a very small part of this beautiful thing that you've already built that you're continuing to grow. Best of luck with your speaking season, but I hope you just have the most amazing trip late this fall when you can just like really savor all the impact that you've created and the hearts that you've touched and yeah, the lives that you've changed. It's really incredible.

SPEAKER_01: 49:11

Awesome. Thank you so much. And this has been such an easy and fun conversation. So I appreciate you having me on.

SPEAKER_00: 49:18

Thank you, Mace. Thank you for tuning into the Owning Her Authority podcast. If today's episode resonated with you, here's how we can keep that momentum going. First, make sure you're subscribed to the show so you never miss an episode and continue to fuel your journey of growth and expansion. Next, share the inspiration. Take a screenshot of the episode and share it on your Instagram stories, tagging me at MissKateHouse, that's at M-S-K-A-T-E-H-O-U-S-E, so we can get connected and inspire other women to own And finally, if you're feeling extra generous, please leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach even more women who are ascending into their power. And as my special thank you for your time and your energy, I would love to support you in moving from overwhelmed to empowered with my complimentary Overcoming Overwhelm Masterclass. During this 60-minute masterclass, you'll learn practical strategies for managing stress, finding clarity, and stepping into your authority. Click on the link in the Let's do this together.