Lack of Attraction, Disgust & Feeling Repulsed (EXPLAINED): Relationship OCD

Do you struggle with attraction issues in your relationship? Do you ever look at your partner and feel disgusted? Do you worry that this is a sign that you are in the wrong relationship? Or if you were with someone more attractive, you'd be happier? In this episode, Grace and I reveal exactly why you are struggling to find your partner attractive, why you obsess about it, and what to actually do about it. We share why attraction issues aren't a deal breaker, and that you aren't even seeing your partner accurately due to the fear, shame, and insecurities you carry inside of yourself. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the For Lovely Hill podcast. It's March 19th, is it? Yes, it's March 19th today, and it's been a couple weeks since I've done an episode, so I'm happy to be back. I try to get uh an episode in weekly, but some weeks I just get caught up with some other things. So um happy to be back and some news. Um, my my partner and I are having another child, and the child is due. Um her name uh is Mira, and Mira is due uh on the 27th, so next Friday. So we're super excited slash nervous about that. So that's a big deal in our lives. So I will be taking some time off when the baby is born. Um about a month. Uh I'll still I'm still gonna try to get our podcast episodes in, and I'll still be hanging out in uh in our the community, the R C D community, so uh and try to make some of the support groups, but I will not be doing any client sessions during during the month of April. Um so just a heads up there. Um uh today I talked to Grace about attraction issues in relationship, and we cover a ton of ground about attraction, and um, we actually end the podcast episode with a piece of IFS work with Grace, where I help her get in touch with her disgust part, and um, and you'll you'll see that I guide Grace um into what that's actually protecting inside of her. We find a really uh we find the wound that drives the disgust in her. So that's and the disgust is really comes from a perfectionistic part of her. So I'm excited for you to, you know, we kind of like break down attachment problems in relationship, like the the different pillars of it, and then we do a piece of work that allows you to see what it would actually look like to start to heal the this issue that arises in your relationship. So uh super excited to share this with you today. Um, and that's about it. So uh so yeah, so let's uh let's dive into today's episode. All right, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the For Love We Heal podcast. We've got Grace, uh my partner in crime, I guess, on on the podcast. And we're gonna be talking about attraction today or or lack of attraction. Um uh big hot topic in the RCD space, one that's really I don't know, it was my it was my thing. It was like probably the wor my it was my main fixation. Um you know, uh mine mine started with love, like what if I don't love my partner? And that and that that was actually a a lot easier to manage for me because I could quickly learn what I quickly learned what love was and what love wasn't. And I read uh if if anyone doesn't know, I read uh Robert Johnson's book, We. Oh We by Robert Johnson. It's uh it's a it's a fantastic book, and he he just breaks down love and romantic love and what it is, and um and it so once I got clear on that, it's quickly switched to attraction, as you know. I mean, it's like the gopher, the game of whack-a-mole, as it is, Cheryl Paul would say. Um uh and uh yeah, it mine became attraction. Uh and I know yours, Grace, you struggled with some attraction issues too. I mean, on one of our podcast episodes, you talked about disgust, and we'll talk a bit about that. But for me, like uh it was like every like reality becomes distorted. I think you just spoke a moment ago, Grace, before we jumped on. It's like almost hallucinogenic, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Yeah, yeah, it really is. And it's it's that whole, it brings up that thought of this is this feels or this seems so real. How could it not be real? It seems so real. So this is just another, I mean, in ROCD, like most of the feelings, thoughts, etc. Like I hear that a lot from people, and this is one where people are like, I literally see something I don't like. So how could this not be real? So it's it's a it's it's a really difficult one, it's a tough one to work with, yeah. Exactly. It's so healable for sure. We are living proof of that.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Oh, yeah, totally, right? And um, yeah, so okay, so we're gonna break it down. We're gonna break down what it why we're why we struggle in this way. There's it's multi-layered, as I've learned. So we're gonna break down the the different layers of attraction, yeah, uh issues, obsessions, disgust, all that. Um, but maybe we talk a little bit first about our experiences. So for me, you know, I um when did it start? I as I said, I struggled with love, uh, fixations and obsessions. What if I don't love my partner? What if I don't love my partner anymore? Um, and then obviously, you know, well, if I don't love my partner and then she's not right for me, then I'm making a mistake and I'm staying in a relationship where I'll inevitably be unfulfilled and unhappy, and I'm hurting her and I'm leading her on from my own selfish desires for closeness and all that stuff, you know, um, and the guilt and the shame that I couldn't tolerate. How could I be putting her through this? But I also didn't want to bring it up to her because if I wasn't right, then I'm like feeding her with false, a false narrative, which she's gonna react to, and then we're gonna, you know, I mean, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

Um the the script, the never-ending script of all the reasons why I should leave, but I just can't, or I just haven't, or whatever it is. Yeah, attraction's one of the many, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:58

So super brutal. Um, and then uh what was it? And then I jumped on a a call with her, a FaceTime, because we were doing long distance at the time.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

That makes Alex pausing on that because I have a couple clients with long distance partners. I find attraction obsession is is super strong a lot of the time in long distance folks with ROCD because you don't have that like object permanence, you don't have that person in front of you. So that that allows your mind to decide what is probably going on. And even over FaceTime, it's not the same as having a person there. So that makes sense that it that it came up for you a lot during that time.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Yeah, I see that too. Like long distance, long distance typically seems to be for folks that have ROCD in long distance relationships. I'm not gonna say it's across the board, but it's particularly activating because you're right, we don't have that person in front of you.

SPEAKER_04 6:52

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Um, so you're checking based on your own feelings versus the the the actual person in front of you, right? So um, so you know, jumped on a FaceTime call, and then I suddenly had the thought, like I saw some facial feature that seemed off, and that then started my abstraction obsessions. Oh my god, what if I'm not attracted? You know, and then and then that was horrible because there was more shame about that one. Because how dare I bring that up to her? The fact that I might not be attracted to her, you know, it's this touchy topic for people, right? Because we're, I mean, not to you know, worth anyway, but image-based culture and blah blah blah, and it's just such a taboo thing to, you know. Um, so and that started all that. So then it was like disgust and repulsion, and I couldn't stop fixating between the gap between her eyes. Like it was a normal gap, right? I mean, it wasn't like she was like the what's the sloth from the movie Ice Age, you know. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

I'm telling I'm gonna tell her you said that. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

But oh no, yeah, yeah. Like, but but that's what my mind was doing. We're saying it's hallucinogenic because I would look at her and there the it would literally look like this would start happening.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Yeah, like it's like she's morphiled, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Um, and that would be my fixation. So then I would just ruminate on it, I'd fixate, I compare, I'd do all the things, I check, and uh, and eventually I uh eventually the anxiety and the guilt and the shame was so bad that I just said it. I was in the washroom one one day, um, and uh my brother and I were sort of bunking together in a bachelor apartment in Vancouver when I was going to school there, and she we were doing long distance with my and I was in the washroom freaking out. And I said, like, I'm like, I I know I this is gonna sound bad, and like it probably probably not true, but I'm worried that I'm not attracted to you. And oh, she was not happy about that. And uh her anger and her questioning of then the relationship, like, why would I stay with someone that doesn't find me attractive? That just made things worse because then I was like terrified of losing her, so then I was like, Oh, please, like, I know it's not true. What can I do to make this work? You know, it's just and so on and on it went. But tell us a little bit about uh your experience, Grace, with with that.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

Yeah, for sure, yeah, yeah. So, you know, I I would say, well, first I want to say that this um obsession theme can happen immediately or it can happen in your relationship at some point. Like I've definitely heard both stories. Mine, mine was not immediate. Like when I met my partner, I was attracted to him. Um, I, you know, I was physically attracted to him, sexually attracted to him. Like I felt I I felt like I I wanted to be around him and notice things about him. And when my ROCD symptoms began, those of you who have it, some of us, you know, feel like it was like a switch that flipped. And that's what it was like for me. It was like one day I woke up and I was like, ooh, something's not right. I'm not feeling, and that's when it started for me, the attraction. It was like one of the first ones with my current partner. And um heartbreaking, so difficult. I am someone, I mean, nobody likes to feel disgust. That is an emotion that I mean, we run from a lot of emotions, but disgust is it's like a it's a biological um what's it called? A thing that that keeps us safe, like uh in primitive time, right? So it really is like your brain, we'll talk about this in a bit, like why it's coming up, but like this is a really effective way for your brain to get you away from your partner because if you're disgusted by like food, for example, you're not gonna eat it. And that kept you safe in primitive times, right? So, so that's how it felt. It was very physical, very like blah. Like and I remember um we we weren't long distance, but we didn't live together. And I just remember like going out to dinner with him and his friends and like staring at him and just like not being able to stop and felt like I was like making faces. My face is really expressive. So if I like and he, I don't think I don't know if he noticed, if he did, he didn't say anything. But for me, I also like it, it was it wasn't so specific, like a specific feature, but it was like just overall, I started noticing like that his body shape and like is his head too small for his body, or things that are just not true. He's actually a very proportionate person, um, which does I mean it wouldn't matter either way, but like that, and then it was like smells for me. Like people, and he's not like a stinky person either, poor guy. He's like talking about there. Um like he is very hygienic.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

You're like, well, yeah, like don't take these this literally, folks.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

Yeah, don't take the, but but but like people have smells, right? Like we all have. Um, you know, sometimes there's a little bit of like sweat or there's a breath after eating. That was a big thing for me, is he would eat and I would smell smell his the food on his breath and be like, oh, and that's just a normal thing, right? But it's just your my brain was really hooking onto these things. And, you know, for many for my clients, like what, especially if they're in a long-term partnership, this can really get in the way of sexual intimacy and that, you know, and then the shame of not being attracted to your partner gets layered by like, and I'm not being sexually intimate with my partner because of this. So it's it, it's just it's so debilitating. And for me, yeah, it it led to a really drastic change in our in our intimate life. Like when we were first the first few months we were together, we were really intimate. I was a little bit anxiously attached. My anxious, I'm anxious avoidant. So I started out anxious and I really wanted to be intimate and physical with him all the time. And I, and if we weren't, like if we went, if we went out together and we didn't do that, I'd be nervous, like, oh my God, does he not want me? And then when the discuss started, I like was avoiding intimacy a lot for a I mean a year, maybe more than a year, honestly. I still like if this comes up in me today, I still it's I'm a little more avoidant and we are intimate less if this comes up. It's just it's just something that that I deal with. So yeah, it's um luckily I didn't confess it to him, but I did. This was one of the things I seeked a lot of reassurance about from friends, from the internet, from I mean, all the places that I anywhere I could. If I had chat GPT at the time, y'all, um I would have been in there like, oh yeah, me too. I feel like my partner's head is too small. What do you think? Picture, you know, like um, I'm kind of glad I didn't have it. But yeah, that was my experience with it.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Oh yeah, that's so tough.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Yeah, you know, you're you're talking about disgust. Disgust is an emotion. And disgust and actually inside out, the movie Inside Out will be.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Yeah, I was thinking about Inside Out. Remember?

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Yeah. Um, and they even say in Inside Out, disgust is uh protects us from being like poisoned, uh or whatever, uh like physically and socially. It's a social thing too. So it it turns you inside, it turns something as a way for you to avoid it because it represents some social, emotional, or physical risk to your your you. And um so so then okay, so the so let's break it down then. So the first layer of attraction issues is avoidant is avoidant attachment or deactivating strategies, as we would call it in the attachment literature, right? So avoidant attachment is uh attempt to pull away to avoid vulnerability and connection so that we don't experience any form of being rejected or unwanted or not chosen or whatever, right? So unconsciously that runs through, like we have those unconscious fears and pain and stuff, and the disgust then shows up in a relationship at some point or another, when the risk of being seen or known increases to the point where that threat response goes, uh-uh, we gotta do something about this. So then boom, there you are, you're faced with the this gross projection, your own projection onto your partner about how they're not attractive anymore, how they're disgusting, or how there's some smell, or whatever is repulsive. So it's hallucinogenic because parts of us distort our reality in an attempt to get us to pull away from them, and then we tell ourselves a story that it's ultimately real because it feels real, because it's our immediate experience. But we have to be mindful, let's not take our feelings or our thoughts so seriously. Um, you know, that so I'll just say that. If you want to add anything to that, Grace, you can.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Yeah. Yeah, that that was a great summary. And as I said before, disgust because it is a primitive emotion that keeps us safe is very effective. And that is why your brain is bringing it up because it knows when I, when this emotion is present, you you pull away from whatever it is, right? So all those wounds are getting activated. Something I want to um really emphasize of what you said is unconscious. This is unconscious. And I know if you're just starting to do this work, or maybe you just found our podcast and you're just getting curious about ROCD, so much of what is happening is unconscious, which is what makes it really difficult to deal with on your own. And we'll talk about ways that we can offer support for you. But, you know, I just remember in the early days of ROCD, even when I learned about it, I still really was hooked on the fact that it doesn't feel like it's some unconscious process. It feels like I do I am not attracted to my partner. And social media told me, and books told me, and movies told me that if I'm not attracted to my partner, why bother? Why am I even here? So that is that might be what your experience feels like. And what I'm asking to our listeners is if that's true, I want you to to just for now, if you haven't had practice with accessing self in parts work, right? Um, we could talk a little bit about how how to heal this later on. If you don't have experience with that yet, you're gonna need to lean a little bit on blind faith. You're gonna need to lean a little bit on, okay, I'm curious. Maybe there's a possibility there's unconscious stuff going on that I don't feel. I just remember that being such a sticking point for me in the beginning was that like everything I feel is the real experience of what is happening when there is a lot going on underneath that for y'all, if you're feeling disgust. So yeah, I just want to make sure we double click on that because I don't want people to just like hear this and move on because they're like, oh, that's not me. I really do feel disgust. It's like, no, I I'm sure you do. I'm sure you really do. But the reason for it is not you're not gonna be able to do that. That's right. It's not a good thing. Because you're putting it on them.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

That's right. That's right. Um shit. What was I gonna say? What were you saying?

SPEAKER_03 19:03

We were talking about how yeah, yeah, yeah. We're talking about how it's like this is one of those things that people might say, but it feels so real. But it's but how could it not be? I feel disgust towards other things. I know what disgust feels like. Yeah, and the point I'm making is yeah, it is real. The emotion is real. The reason, the story you're attaching to it is what isn't.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yes, is what's not exactly. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Um, so okay, so that's one thing. So the first layer is um is at an attachment, uh deactivating avoidance strategy. Um, and then we get into then it's what that activates in us. So that activates a couple things. The obsessive part of us will then obsess on that lack of attraction, checking, uh comparing, analyzing, obsessing, ruminating about it, and an attempt to figure it out if you are or not, in fact, attracted, so that you can avoid making a mistake that will put you in a position where you're a bad person or you're a horrible person, or you might hurt your partner, right? That's right. So that's so the avoidance strategy activates, as we talked about in the four-part series for overcoming relationship OCD, which is on the podcast, everybody. If you look down, you'll see a four-part series. We talk a little bit about this dynamic that activates the OCD, and the OCD is an attempt to avoid making mistakes, so you'll ruminate and fixate to get the certainty that you are in fact attracted to either stay or leave and do the right thing. But but then that also activates so that's one thing, it all it's activating three things, three primary things, which this is why ROCD is so complex, and this is why I think it's imperative that you find a practitioner that knows this, that knows this stuff, because it's a complex multi-layered issue that needs to be addressed accurately. Anyway, so it activates the OCD, it also activates the anxious attachment, which activates our fears of loss, right? And our and our underlying, very unconscious, typically, unless you're aware of your abandonment issues, these umban abandonment wounds, this fear of being alone, this fear of losing an attachment connection that that you're actually, while you're still activated, you actually have somebody. So you lose that, you're terrified of losing them. But it also activates what um our um a value thing. So for some of us, the attraction issues are so important because we learn that attraction is part of our value. To look a certain way, to act a certain way, to be a certain way means that we're a valuable person. So, and because so many of us are enmeshed with our partners, their partner be is becomes an extension of ourselves, and we equate worth to our choice in the partner. So if our partner's not attractive, then that means that we're choosing someone that other people will see as so it it lowers our value or status or worth as a person, right?

SPEAKER_04 22:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

What will people think of me if I'm with someone that's not attractive or that looks like that has this physical feature? Oh my god, I'm gonna be judged. I'm gonna be right. So it activates those three things.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

Yeah. And like what's in kind of a like roundabout way, it's it's it's threatening your attachment with other people too, not just your partner. You're like, if I choose a partner who's not attractive or not like in my league or whatever your your obsession is, other people might judge me and pull away from me, or or like I might lose so that it's like multi-layered because there might be fears of losing your partner over it and fears of losing other people in your life, or other people in your life talking about you behind your back. Or I I have clients that I'm working with like specifically on this, and and it's it is so hard. And sometimes, because of the way we talk about attraction in Western culture, sometimes people will say kind of unknowingly, innocently, like, like, oh my gosh, you're a 10 to their friends to hype them up. And they're like, you deserve someone like really hot. Like you can do, you know, or you can do way better than say you could do better even. Yeah. So like, and and when we're looking for, and they don't know that you're struggling with this, right? They're just bantering, right? But it's like if you're in a phase of your on your RCD journey where you are looking outside of yourself for the answer of whether you should stay or go, you're, you're just you're gonna, you're, you're a sponge to those types of comments and those types of things, your friends, your parents, whatever they say, a little something that's maybe a little bit of doubt or curiosity about your relationship. And you're just like, oh my God, that's the truth. I've been feeling bad, and that, that, you know, that's the truth. So the goal, one of the goals is like with treatment of this, and I agree with what Alex said. I think it's so important to find a practitioner who understands ROCD. If they haven't been through it themselves, at least understands it. Because even, you know, clinical therapists, I've had a few, I've had several therapists before I found one that that really understood this, might not might exacerbate it by saying things like, well, you know, maybe it's your instinct that we we did an episode on that, on like, is this anxiety or intuition? So listen to that for more on that. But it's like, yeah, finding someone who really understands this, especially in the attraction thing, because what we haven't really, what we've touched on, but we haven't done dove into about this is the shame aspect of it.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

Anywhere that there is shame, and there's a lot of shame with attraction, a lot of it in our culture, um, a lot of shame. It's going to make an obsession worse. Shame is never going to help, it's never going to get you towards clarity, it's going to confuse you and hurt you more. Yep. So, yeah, what do you what do you think about that? The presence of you in this.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Well, it's all shame related anyway. Like this whole issue is rooted in shame.

SPEAKER_05 25:57

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Um, yeah. So I think let's talk about it for a second. So is attraction important? Maybe we'll talk about that. You know what is it? What is it about it? You know, like people will say, am I not like I've heard people say, Am I not primally attracted? You know what I mean? Like, your brain will go into every little nook and cranny and crevice trying to like but what about primal? What about nature? What I mean, my mind would go to some birds don't mate with each other. You know, like I'll watch the date, you know, the nature documentaries where like the male's doing the dance and the female gets to choose the male bird, and and you know, it's like, well, but but here's the reality, folks. Um obviously attraction is important to some degree because it's it's nature, right? Like, so um, but the thing is, is that it like you walk down the street, you're only going to pick someone, like you wouldn't be in a relationship. You're not at least someone's. That's where I was gonna go.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

That's where I was going. You're yeah, you chose this person, and some people's parts might be being like, Well, I don't know, maybe I was like coerced, maybe I was this, maybe I was that. I get that. I under, I want you guys, I want you to hold those parts that are coming up. But I'm I'm telling you that, like, if you're in a relationship, you're worried at all about ROCD and wanting to stay connected, right? There is attraction there, even if you can't feel it at the surface all the time. And then what I hear from clients when I say that is, is it enough? So I wanna um, I'm gonna let my cat out so he doesn't ruin this podcast. But like, if what I wanna talk about for a second is like, how do you answer that question, Alex? When people are like, okay, yeah, I am attracted, but is it enough?

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Good.

SPEAKER_03 28:13

Is it enough? The question I always ask first is like, enough, what do you mean? What where's the where's the bar? Yeah, like what is enough, you know? Like, yeah. Sorry about that, folks.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Okay, that's okay. I got two cats of my own. And well, they're so cozy and cuddly sometimes. Oh man, I just want to kill them sometimes. My cat's trying to fucking and then I feel so bad. I'm like, you're just so sweet. Why was I so angry at you? And then and then they're like, I'm like, fuck off.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

Get away. Oh my gosh. We digress, but my cat will lick me in the morning between my eyebrows. That's how he wakes me up to feed him because he knows that I can't sleep through it. He's like, You're gonna wake up.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

You're gonna wake up. Oh what do you do?

SPEAKER_03 29:07

I wake up, you know, I'm reinforcing it.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Do you uh are you kind or do are you do you get it?

SPEAKER_03 29:14

Yeah, usually I usually I'll just his name's Claudio, and I'll usually just be like, Claudio? And I'll kind of, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

That's funny. That's funny. But you're lovely. They're lovely too. They are anyway.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

They are, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

So what if it's what is it not? Like, what if it's what we're not attracted enough? Well, yeah, the thing is, and this is gonna be probably like me saying this isn't gonna do anything for you, but I think it's good to you know what I mean? So while it's a little bit of reassurance, um, and uh just just something to ground into. Um, I wouldn't actually even think, yeah, you know what? I wouldn't even think about that right now. No, what I would think about is focus on your fears instead of trying to find some again, some little nook and cranny that you can rest in that your partner is attractive enough.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

You would have found it already, is the thing. Yeah. If you you I we know, Alex and I know that you've thought about this incessantly for months, weeks, maybe years. If you would have thought your way to the answer, you would have gotten there. Yeah, so we are inviting you to try something different.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

That's that's exactly pretty much what the point is not to find out if your partner is attractive enough. That's not the point. The point is to use the lack of attraction and your obsessions around it as the vehicle to go into the place inside of yourself that's feeling insecure, that's feeling afraid, or that's feeling disgust, and to heal that. The lack of attraction is the invitation into the place that needs healing inside of you. So because if you just if you just get a little hit of oh, maybe my partner is attractive enough, you might have a little bit of relief for for some time, but you're gonna find something else and you're gonna be right off. So the it's never it's never productive. Well, I and as I say, we're not like shamers of compulsions here, like they are also to the portal inside, but you will not get any lasting peace from from that reassurance.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

So no, your your brain's gonna find a new obsession, and you many of you listening have probably experienced this, and we can kind of laugh about it together, right? Like, I encourage this in our group, um, which we'll talk about is like bring a little humor in. Yep, like I hear people be like, Yep, man, it used to be do I love them enough? Now I don't think about that at all. Now I think about attraction constantly. Yeah, you know, it's gonna change you that that compulsion because your brain is gonna try new things.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

Wounds, it's those wounded parts are gonna try new things to try to push you away.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Well, the avoidant parts will like part there's like a and and I've known this so well. Like, I'll just I'll I'll just say like I know this so well because I have like I've worked with RCD for about almost 10,000 hours. I think that's what they say is like an expert award.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

10,000 hours, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

I don't have that quite quite that, but I'm getting up there. But um, but uh I know this so well. Like I know I I'm using nook and cranny a lot today. So if you I like it, I like nook and cranny. I would if I heard someone say that multiple times, I'd be like, ew, stop saying nook and cranny. Maybe that's uh the part of this theme, but I I know like so much about this because I I work with specifically RCD clients, and I've done that over and over and over and over and over and over again. Like I don't waver from that. I've tried, I I'm like in the place now. I'm I want to be, I want to know every little tiny little thing. So I've I've mapped these systems out really extensively, and um oh man, my brain today. What is going on? I left I literally lost my train of thought. What were we talking about before that?

SPEAKER_03 33:27

Before that, no, yeah. Before that, we were talking about um like losing my train of thought too. We were we were talking about how oh I had I had said like if it well, we were talking about how if it's not attraction, it's going to be something else. Oh your brain is going to find it's always those avoidant parts are always gonna find something.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Yeah, now yeah, so the avoidant parts, there's a little subsection, a little pocket of parts that I call baiting parts.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

Oh, I like that baiting, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Baiting parts use they log. This is weird. This is really weird to think about for for those of you who aren't maybe super familiar with parts, and it can be a little bit unsettling, but it's actually kind of cool, I think. Our our brains, our our minds are so so cool. And like when you think of it as parts, this will make sense. But parts of us I call baiting parts, they log triggers, they have different motivations. So avoidant baiting parts will know that if they say certain things to you, they will trigger other parts of you, and that will distract you and send you in. So, like they will go, Oh, well, check out that like eyebrow or something, and then you go, What? Eyebrow? Oh no, uh, and then you're ruminating, and then you're not connected anymore. So you're so our parts will find anything to any reason to get us to pull away because avoidant parts, their main mission is don't connect, so we'll fucking do whatever we want to do. We'll we'll find any reason as to why this isn't right. So there's a so baiting parts show up in ways that will trigger you, they'll they'll they know what's gonna trigger you. So so my whole point is don't focus on whether or not your partner's attractive, constantly turn toward the fear and the insecurity and all of that. And we'll talk a little bit about how to do that. And I talk, we talk about this in my course and community that uh that that we're in. And so for 37 bucks a month, you get access to my 12-hour course where we break all this stuff that we're talking about in a lot more detail. Um, you get uh bi-weekly support groups. Uh uh Grace joins me for the uh Thursday as at nine, and then I do one at 4 p.m. Eastern Time on Thursdays. Um and you get a private Facebook community, and we do weekly inner work pairings, which seems to be doing pretty well. People, a lot of people are filling out the form and people are doing it and they're meeting up. So every week you get a chance to meet up with someone else in the community to facilitate inner inner work together, inner parts work together, and that seems to be going really well. Uh, so if you're interested in that and diving a little bit deeper into this work that we're talking about, sign up. The link will be in the bio. Uh, so there's your sales pitch for this episode. Um but yeah, so uh never always if you're gonna do the compulsion, do stop and pause, redirect your attention inwardly on the feelings that you're having inside.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

Yeah, okay, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

What do you want?

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Yeah, exactly. And I think that this well, what's coming up for me, Alex? And feel free to just redirect me. I wonder if we do take a few minutes and do a little experiential so people can hear. I'm happy to be, I'm happy to be in the hot seat if you want to lead me through like a brief, brief questions with my disgust part, because it's a part of me that I know pretty well. And we can, and we can get to, I will be authentic. So I'll say, likely we will get to what the core fear is. Oh, that's good. I'd love that. Because that's a great idea. I can I can imagine people being like, well, okay, I don't know, I feel disgust. And we are asking, okay, well, question about the core fear. And they're like, My fear is that I'm not attracted to my partner. That's not the fear we're talking about. Like it is, but but there's more to it. So I just wonder if we do like a literal experiential. I'm not trying to get free parts work, you know, but but but if we did that, then they might understand. Yeah. I think it's a great idea. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Okay, so let me know. And everyone, you can follow along and do this with us. Like, it's not gonna be the same as if I if I was doing it with you directly, but you can follow along and you can sort of uh do this process with us. Um so, Grace, turn your attention inside and find your breath in any way that feels natural to you. And let's see if we can just invite forward or you can call up a memory or some way to find a connection to this part of you that feels disgust sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Okay, that's good. So how are you aware of her?

SPEAKER_03 39:08

Yeah, I I see images of like things I've seen in my partner that have given me that disgust feeling, and it's like the bottom of my throat for me. It's kind of right here, which is also like my nausea point. So it's kind of like that's where I feel sensation.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Okay, good. Okay. So notice how you feel towards her.

SPEAKER_04 39:50

I understand why she's here and she's trying to protect me.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

Yeah, she's like one of my optimizer parts. Oh we have to live the best life. We have to have the the best, the best, the best, the best. She's kind of in that family part for me.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

She might she might experience a bit of repetitiveness of things that you've already asked her, so you can let her know that. But we're we're gonna be getting to know her again, over again. And there might be an opportunity for her to share things with you that she hasn't in the past. So you can let her know that just ask, let her see if she's willing to share what her job is. Why does she give you why more specifically, why does she make you feel that way? That disgust.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

That's the phrase that I got from her. The job is Yeah, to keep things in check.

SPEAKER_04 41:10

To not miss anything. To make sure that I'm not Yeah, that I'm not making a wrong decision.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

If it if it if people are hearing background noise, I'm just getting a penny here. Um Okay, okay. To keep things in check to make sure you're not making a wrong decision, is that what she said?

SPEAKER_03 41:46

And she also, it's interesting. There's a lot of like physical obsessions that she has about my partner. And she's like health, healthy. We like need to make sure he's healthy.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Oh. Sounds like there's a few parts here. Sounds like there's more than one.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

Interesting, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

I'll meet So So just just ask your system to uh just ask these parts to separate out from one another. So there's one that wants to make sure you're not making the wrong decision. There's one that gives you the feelings of disgust. There's another one that wants to make sure he's healthy. Is that right?

SPEAKER_03 42:38

That's right. That's right. I'm like, I I like to picture them kind of in front of me. It helps separate them.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

And the one that wants to make sure he's healthy is really afraid of losing him. That's like a young yeah, that's like a young part that has a deep fear of death, of loss, and is kind of like hey, this is important too. And that's you know, so that's yeah, that's a little part.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Can you let that one know that you're aware of them?

SPEAKER_03 43:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Alright, and that when the time is right, you're gonna be there and you're gonna help them.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

For sure. Alright. Is that one okay for now?

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

Okay. So focus in on just the part who for the purpose of this, right? Focus on the one who goes yuck or something.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

I can feel like my nostrils flare. Yeah. And like my face just starts to go like.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Okay. So hi. We see you. And you're so important.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

So important. We'd love to be able to get to know you. Grace, notice how you're feeling toward that one.

SPEAKER_04 44:14

It's it's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 44:15

She's one that I tend to feel like pretty blended with when she's present. So I I feel like I want to cross my like her posture. She just looks like this. Does she? Yeah, she kind of looks like this. And if I I'm trying to put her out in front of me in my mind's eye, just seeing her standing there.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

Just let her don't don't try to put her in front of you. Just just let her be blended for a moment here. Just feel her energy.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

And and you can just say to her, like, I notice you're quite blended. You're usually quite blended with me. And I wonder if there's a way that we can be here together. So that I can get to know you and understand you more.

SPEAKER_03 45:12

I'm laughing because I just she says. That's interesting. When I when I offered that to her, she says, Well, you just don't have the same standards as me. You don't. You'd probably settle if it was up to you. Is it something she says?

SPEAKER_00 45:42

You'd settle. Oh, there we go. Okay, good. So look you okay with that? Let her know, okay. Yeah. We but we so I what we want to do is we want to know what your standards are. Like that's important to us. And I'm sure there's a really good reason why you have those standards. So we want to listen. So see if she's willing for that purpose. You can let her know. Like, we're not gonna change your standards. We're we just want to be with you. See what she says.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

Interesting. She's really. I just got like a loneliness wave. Oh like she's she's lonely. She's like, well, that's that's crazy. Nobody ever wants to be with me.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Aww. Yeah, we do. We do.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

Yeah. This is a part that that's sh that's shamed a lot.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

I bet.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

It just doesn't, yeah, doesn't feel she belongs, but she's still like very holds firm in her standards and her beliefs.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Yeah. That's right. So in service of that, since she's feeling like, wow, for no one's ever really wanted to be with me, just see how notice how you're feeling toward her now.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

I say I want to be with you.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:13

I do.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

I feel curious about her.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

That's it. How does she respond?

SPEAKER_03 47:23

She seems to soften a little. Like move towards me a little.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Good. Okay, good. That's it. Alright, alright.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

She's got some standards, does she? Alright, she can let you know what those are.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

Yeah. She says like grooming, being well groomed is a non-negotiable. And like skincare, fitness, you know, like these things are these things are really, really important. And she says, I'm always watching. I'm always watching for like signs that he's letting himself go in those areas. I'm just checking and I'm watching. Yeah. And lately, like recently, he's recommitted to some fitness things and some other things, and that made her happy. She was like, Good. He should do that.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Oh god, she's she's happy about that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Okay, yeah. So ask her what's so important about these things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:52

So important.

SPEAKER_03 49:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

What?

SPEAKER_03 49:02

I'm saying, wow, we could I mean it's so clearly she said because he has to be a good dad. Which that was something that just came up. That's why I said wow, like I didn't expect that. Like she is one of my parts who is like really excited about having a kid to an obsessive degree. I have a lot of parts that are kind of like that, and she's like, he has to be perfect for that.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

Perfect for that. I see. Okay. So ask her why that's so important.

SPEAKER_04 49:44

Why is that so important? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:53

Now I'm getting other people are gonna witness us as parents together. And if they see him not being optimal, it's gonna put more responsibility on you. It's gonna put more weight on you.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 50:21

I would carry the judgment, she says. I would carry the burden of people judging him.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Wow. Okay. That sounds like a big deal. And then what?

SPEAKER_03 50:40

And then I won't be a good mom. Oh yeah. And my kids might not respect us.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Oh goodness. Aww. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 50:58

Yeah. Yeah, and she this is a newer because I've I've worked with her before, and I'm just remembering, you know, conversations with her before I started thinking about kids where it was the same conversation, just about friends or other people. Like I will carry the pain and the weight of people judging him.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

I will carry the pain and weight of people judging him.

SPEAKER_03 51:29

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

So it's about judgment.

SPEAKER_03 51:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

Okay. And ask her what would be so bad what's so bad about carrying the pain and weight of people judging him.

SPEAKER_04 51:52

It hurts. It makes me feel depressed and empty and scared.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

Yeah. So she's protecting a part of you that's scared and depressed and empty and hurt and okay. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 52:26

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

Okay, let her know that. You get that? Totally.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 52:35

She's telling me about like she's bringing up memories of like the time this little part was hurt and judged for her physical appearance. There was a lot of bullying, like of my physical appearance when I was in middle school and stuff, and she's just like, remember this and this and this and this, and like how hurt.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

Oh that's it. That's it. So she's so she's protecting a part of you who was bullied and hurt and judged for the way that you looked. Is that right?

SPEAKER_03 53:13

That's right. She's remembering a time that literally my like classmates when I was in middle school passed around like a paper survey of like who's the ugliest girl in the class, and I got like first place.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

No, oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 53:30

Yeah, I'm just laughing because it it is. I usually laugh when I'm to like expel emotion, but yeah, I mean, there's a real there's so much pain around that and feeling like I couldn't figure out how to look how I was supposed to look.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

Oh man, come on, right? Yeah how terrible's that terrible. Can you hold your heart open for this? The I don't know, this she would not discuss, but she's like perfectionistic part in a way, you know? And and see if you can just hold your heart open for the little girl that was judged.

SPEAKER_04 54:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

We don't have too much time to be with her, but you can let her know that you'll be really thinking about her, and yeah, I don't know if there's something that she might need from you in the meantime.

SPEAKER_03 54:28

Yeah. I just imagine young me, maybe like fourth or fifth grade, and just like taking her hands and telling her that I won't leave her side. And then there are so many people in her life, including me, who are gonna love her just how she is.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:51

And I'm just sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry that she's been holding all this pain.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Hang out there for a second with her, let her feel that.

SPEAKER_04 55:15

She just hugs she embraces me.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Good.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

That's it. And notice how it is for the perfectionistic part. I'm calling her that. She can n whatever she needs to be called, but okay she's yeah, she's good with that. Okay. So notice how that is for her to have you be with this little little one that she's been protecting.

SPEAKER_03 55:51

She feels relief.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

She didn't really believe that anybody else even noticed this other part.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 56:01

And she didn't trust this the little part to trust anybody else.

SPEAKER_00 56:06

Yeah. Well, I mean, geez, why would she after all that? Yeah. Okay, good. So sounds like you've got sounds like it's a good place to maybe shift, then. Is that okay? Mm-hmm. Oh, thanks to your parts. And so yeah, that's good. You've got them. Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 56:27

Thank you, everybody. Yeah. Thanks, everyone listening for listening. That was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

How are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 56:36

Good. I was like, let's do it. And then I was like, wait.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

What are we getting into?

SPEAKER_03 56:42

I felt all the stuff. No, that was that was wonderful. I I hope, you know, everybody's gonna have different parts, but I find when I do parts work around attraction and disgust, it we get to a similar place of like there's an exile, and you might not have explicit memories like I do. I mean, ugliest girl in the class, y'all, right here. Ugliest girl in the class.

SPEAKER_00 57:06

That's so dumb. That's so dumb.

SPEAKER_03 57:08

You know, kids can be rude.

SPEAKER_00 57:10

Kids are ruthless.

SPEAKER_03 57:11

They're very mean sometimes, yeah. And and it's it's not just like that wasn't based in reality, right? Like the judgment isn't based on reality, but uh, and you might not have explicit memories like I do of the moment that someone said X and I felt, but you might have a young part inside of you who has emotional memories of judgment, of shame, of confusion. There's so many of us who have young parts that are like, I didn't know how to be normal, I didn't know how to be accepted because anywhere I went, people just judged me all the time. Yeah and the disgust part comes up and gets her job, the perfectionist part gets her job from that. Oh, I'll figure this out. I'll figure this out for you. Little part, you just don't worry about it. I got it. I'm gonna figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

Yeah, exactly. Um, we're past. Are you okay to go a little bit longer? Yeah, how much time do you have?

SPEAKER_03 58:10

Um I'm good for I I'm off of my other work today, so I'm I've got time. Okay, yeah, maybe like 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

I'll say something. So I like my case, I have the same one, I have the same burden, but mine wasn't I was never explicitly told that I was not uh that I was ugly or whatever, but I always felt it. Like I always felt, and and and it's a variety of things. Like I know, like my family's very image-based.

SPEAKER_03 58:42

So yes, mine too.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

You know, so just by being in that, I'm like, well, you gotta get with an attractive partner, you gotta look a certain way in order to be loved.

SPEAKER_03 58:57

That's just one of life's most important things. Like when it's the water you're swimming in as a kid, yeah, especially, yeah. You don't even have to be explicitly bullied about it to care about it.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

No, exactly, right? Like it's just it's just if you learn that was what you needed to be in order to be accepted, and especially if like that's conditional love. So, you know, you're even it's just micro showns of like, you know, when you're looking good, people light up, or whatever, or like your family lights up, or they they pay particular attention to you when you're looking a certain way, or when you've got certain achievement, you've got more of that that connection, or when you just slow little things that you're not really even aware of, you just unconsciously you download it as oh, like it feels bad to not have that, it feels good to have that. So I'm gonna be more of what I'm gonna be need to be to have that thing, yes, right? And then you do, and then because it feels so bad to not have that, then you get it with an unattract, an unattractive partner, or what you perceive to be an unattractive partner, or not to the standard that you learned was acceptable, you do not want to feel that, so you're uh trying to control them in your mind as a way to not feel that feeling, that bad feeling. So so you don't so in j in Grace's case, very explicitly, like the worst thing that could happen in a social thing, like you're deemed as like the most unattractive person. Doesn't have to be that, although I'm sure that many of you and many people I work with have been judged and criticized and bullied and whatever sometimes by their own parents, yeah, which those are the most heartbreaking things because your parent, I mean, you're looking to your parent to learn how the world is when you're little.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:46

And so if it comes from your parent, whether they meant it or not, I I don't really care, right? Like whether they meant to hurt you or not, because I hear people's parts being like, well, they didn't mean to hurt me, they were just trying to help. There was no like if you hear criticism from your parents around like your physical appearance or things like that, um, yeah, that can that can really create these wounds and these perfectionist parts.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:11

And even if it's played off as it was just joking, like it's just a joke, it's still the same thing. Or like if you say, Oh, they were just joking, it's like if they laugh at you or they laugh with you, but kind of at you, that you you know, you have a weird thing on, or I don't know, you know what I mean? It's still kind of like ha ha ha, but also ooh, ouch, you know, like it's still um so there's been there's oh sorry, really quick.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:38

I'll throw this out there as maybe a teaser for someday. I really want to do an episode some time someday on teasing. Because I think I've mentioned this to you too, Alex. I get so fired up about tea parents teasing their kids.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:54

Like, and I think that it's it's connected to attachment, obviously, but it's connected to this in that like people's parts will write off teasing from parents as like they're preparing me for the real world. They are, they were just it was it was harmless. It was this, it wasn't, it wasn't harmless. There's no place for teasing from a parent to a child, and and I, yeah, that's a whole other episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

But but yeah, it's something teasing's bullying.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:20

Yeah, like teasing's bullying.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:22

I mean, there is a way, you know. I always thought, like, I got into relationships and I I I found teasing very stimulating it with between partners because yeah, and it and it kind of can be there can be a teasing that's kind of fun, but there's a certain teasing that is actually controlling and sinister that's like, oh, like I'm gonna tease you because I enjoy seeing you get worked up. That's what I mean. It's a power, it's a power thing, and it's painful to a kid. Like my dad teased me a lot, and um, and my mom to some degree, but my dad was a big teaser, and and you know, he I I understand it wasn't his intention, obviously, but but he because it was he was done to him, and I I kind of want to get I have parts that defend my dad right now, but uh yeah, yeah, I know, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:22

Me too. I'm like, well, but I think I'd love to we'll just bookmark this topic because I think that this is one of the things that people are like, I don't know why I'm like this. I don't have trauma, I don't have like I had a good childhood, I had listen to our parentification episode. If you think you had a good childhood, but you have ROCD, listen to the parentification episode. Um, but but like the the thing is, is there there are things that, yeah, even if it wasn't intentionally done to you, even if you had a roof over your head and you didn't want for anything, right? It doesn't mean that there weren't things that gave parts of you, like my disgust part you guys just met, a job. Yeah, gave them their job. And yeah, yeah. So we should bookmark that for a future episode. I think that'd be sweet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:05

That was awesome. I think we like man, that was great. So, um, again, if anyone is interested, come hang out with us in our support groups and in the fit private Facebook community and get access to 12 hours of course material with all the practices and all the good stuff, and hang out with every week. You have an opportunity to get together with someone else in the community to go on Zoom together and talk and facilitate parts work together. 37 bucks a month, and you can have it all.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:41

You can have it all, yeah. It's a description.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

Yeah, yeah. It's not free. I I removed the free trial on it because I was finding that people were joining, but they um they're it just it wasn't conducive to the community because people were coming in and then they're they were defaulting on the payments, and like it wasn't yeah, or or people were like, Oh, I want the the free thing that's coming out this week, so I'm gonna get the free trial and I'm gonna cancel right after and stuff. So I um I just changed that so because I've promoted it in other podcasts where it's free, but I've just made it like flat 37 bucks. So if you want to come, you just pay the 37 bucks. You can cancel anytime. If you don't like it or whatever, just cancel if it's not for you, you can just cancel. Uh for sure. But anyway, it's for the people that are in there. I mean, Grace, I don't know about you, but just in a couple of weeks, the people in the in the in the support groups, some of them is night and day.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:41

Like they came in it's absolutely wild. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:44

Just having that supportive community element. It's like it's so powerful. So I think that, you know, if um I think that anyone listening would really benefit from that if you if you can afford it if thirty seven bucks is feasible for you a month.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:59

Yeah, for sure. Awesome. All right. All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:03

So we'll talk to you all next time.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:06

Yeah. Talk to y'all next time.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:08

All right. Bye. Bye.