How Do You Move Forward?

C Jay Anderson-McKay is the mother of four; two in heaven, two here on earth. C Jay has founded two non-profits. The first, “Grief Bridge” is a non-profit organization with the mission to close the gap between the bereaved and the world by way of education and grief work centered around God's Word. The second non-profit is called “JAWS,” which stands for John-Benjamin Action 2 Walk Safely. JAWS’ mission is teaching children to work safely and defensively. C Jay talks with Michael about how losing two children affected her life, what it's meant to her to start two non-profits and how others can move forward after the devastation that is inevitable when a mother loses a child.

Transcript

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Welcome to Heart are with Michael Future in your host, Michael Leavitt. Our program is designed to empower the believed community with information and stories from those who have suffered the most terrible loss. Michael, himself a bereaved father, will be meeting with people from around the world to share and to draw hope from their experiences. And now here is Michael even.

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Welcome to the ninth episode of the first season of Heart to Heart with Michael program for the Braves community. Our purpose

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is to empower members of our community with the resource is support and advocacy information. Today's show is, How do you move forward here with us today to discuss this topic is our guest, C. J. McKay, mother of four to in Heaven to here on Earth, CJ has founded to nonprofits. The first grief Bridge is a non profit organization with the mission to close the gap between the bereaved and the world by way of education and grief. Work centered around God's word. The second non profit is called Jaws, which stands for John Benjamin Action toe Walk safely. Jaws Mission is teaching Children to walk safely and defensively welcome CJ. It's very nice to have you on the program.

spk_0:   1:13
Thank you. Michael, Thank you for helping me today.

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Welcome. I understand you've lost two adult sons within the last nine years. Can you tell us a little about them? And what happened

spk_0:   1:21
then was my middle son. And he is now forever 21. And he was my son that had the biggest heart, and he was a musician, and he played the piano, and he taught himself to play the guitar and just a fun kind of kid, and he could fix everything. He was my MacGyver and just just fun to be around. And, um, to tell you how biggest heart was. Actually, my mom had come down with cancer, and she didn't want to leave her house in California. So he offered, ah, to go take care of her house in California while my mom came here and did cancer treatment and D. Anderson Cancer Center. And, um, anyway, while he was there taking care of the house, um, he had to stay through Christmas, and it was Christmassy. Even he felt sorry for some friends down the road that didn't have any place to go for Christmas. So So he walked down the street to invite them to Christmas eat dinner. And while he was walking, he got hit from behind by a distracted driver. And he was drug 176 feet two his passing. And, um um, it was quite a shock. Um, I didn't think I was going to survive his death because, um, I had not known anything about grief. Really. And, ah, I didn't know a body could endure so much pain and still survive. And then three years later, my oldest son, Bridger, which he's almost my clone, he's so much like me, he'll be forever. 32. He was just the greatest kid growing up, and he played every sport. And he was just, you know, fun got me out of the house to do everything. We were very, very close. He was a father of four. He has four Children, and, um but he kind of struggled his whole life. When he was 15 his best friend had called him Ah, one night and asked him to go to a party. And he said, You know, man, I gotta study for this math test. So he stayed home and study for the math test. And that night, his best friend, this whole life was murdered, and he always felt I guess it was his fault that he should have been there to protect him. So he went into a deep depression. And and, of course, I didn't understand grief back then because I hadn't really lost anybody. But, you know, Shakespeare says, give sorrow words. Um, the grief that does not speak is or fraud, which means it's a really heavy, um, loaded heart. So, um, you're not supposed to keep your grief hidden, Supposed to put your sorrow into words because the grief inside you will whisper into your heart until it breaks. And I didn't understand that. So I didn't really get him the help he probably needed. And so he turn to drugs toe, um, drown his sorrows of his best friend passing. And so we struggled with that in an addiction. Finally one, um, when he was in his thirties,

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I'm still started here that tell me a little bit about the organization's grief bridge and John Benjamin action.

spk_0:   4:40
They coming just birthed out of pain. Actually, um, Jaws came about just four months after Ben's death I had not left the house at all. Spent most of my time in a fetal position with the Bible. Pressed against my chest is a shock, eggs or burn. And, um, four months after his death was his 22nd birthday. And I woke up on that day, April 7th in a panic, and I was gasping for air and I didn't know what to do. And and I was, you know, running around the house like a crazy lady. And I went to the phone and I picked up the phone mindlessly because I knew I had to do something for his birthday. I don't know what because I didn't know anything about grief, but I had to do something. I just felt. And so I went to the phone and I mindlessly dialed my youngest son, Patrick's elementary school, and I just blurted something out. I mean, I just blurt out today birthday killed, distracted driver. Can I come down? Talk to kids, walk safely? You know, I just I'm did made no sense at all, but the principle had was the one who would answer the phone. And he had known that our story on. He said, CJ, come on down. And so the first time I got in the car and I drove a couple miles to the school and they had put together a group of three second grade classes, um, together for me to talk to Patrick was in second grade then And so I explained to him, This is my son Patrick and I had a picture have been on a T shirt. This is my son, Ben, and he's no longer here. He lives in heaven because although he was walking down the street safely, he wasn't walking defensively. He wasn't looking out for the other person coming from behind. And so I talked to the kids about, you know, walking left, right, left, you know, And I was only there about 10 minutes, and I passed out a bunch of CDs from walks America on how to walk safely for kids. And I just felt a sense of peace come over. My body had, like, I hadn't felt in four months, and I just felt like, you know, you know, that was the right thing to do. Thank God for, you know, opening that door for letting me come down there and talk to those kids. And I didn't really understand the impact of that little 10 minute time frame that I was there until a few months later when, um, Patrick head a, um, a track meet. And so again, I ventured out of the house for with second time, and I was at the track meet looking for my son. And across the field there was this big kid coming, waving his arms, saying, Hey, lady, hey, lady! And he came up to me and he said, Lady, my mama told me If I ever see you again, I need to thank you lady, for telling me how toe walk home safely. And he wrapped his arms around me and gave me a big Ben hug. Ben was known for his hugs. It was just an incredible moment. Tear went down my face and I looked up and said, Thank you. Been If we just save one life, you know, then your purpose has been here on earth. It was, like not even 60 seconds later, I said, these arms around women around my waist from the back. Well, that's something Patrick would do, So I reached around the back to toggle, you know, his black hair. But it was blond hair again. And, um, this kid came around to the front and said, Thank you, lady. Thank you. My sister and I made it all the way to the soccer practice safely. And my mom said that we need to thank you. And then I just the tears just, you know, gushed out of me. I said, Okay. God. Okay. I know my purpose now, I you know, and that's how um, Jaws was, um, was birthed was through that one event who got had orchestrated, you know, for me to follow through.

spk_3:   8:50
I was gonna ask you if you thought that maybe John Benjamin was there, and I guess he was. I guess he really

spk_0:   8:56
was. Absolutely. Yeah, I know. He was there. Absolutely.

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That was your essentially your first touch with dealing publicly with grief. But after that, he began studying for your master's in Christian counseling at Dallas Baptist University. Was this a result of your loss? And what role do you envision this playing in helping you with your own grief?

spk_0:   9:16
Well, yes, on. And, um, it was again birthed out of desperation because, um, I knew I needed some more help. And so I reached out to some councillors and I What I did is I interviewed 12 councilors before I decided to go toe one because everybody had told me counselors didn't help. So all 12 had told me that they were experts in grief. And so, after interviewing all 12 of them, I had found out that only one had lost a grand parent. And that was when they were nine and one had lost a pet. Well, they couldn't help me. They had no idea what I was going through because I know I have lost four grand parents. I've lost my father. I've lost my mother. And the grief I experienced in each of those instances was nothing compared to the ongoing grief that I experienced with losing my two sons. And so, in desperation, I cried out to God, and I said, You know, God, there are millions of bereaved parents in the world, but who is helping them? The's counselors don't understand us. Nobody understands our pain, you know, and I just kind of screamed out to him, and then I just prayed quietly And then I heard playing his day. But you know, CJ, but, you know, and you can help them. And then he just put it in my heart to go back to school. And I was writing a book at the time, and so I decided that you know what? I'm gonna wait and finish my book after I finished my masters, because I'm gonna have credibility of knowing all sides of grief, the actual reality of it. But what God says about it in the Bible and the clinical side, you know what is taught to these counselors who are supposedly, um should be able to help us.

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Okay, we're gonna have to take a break. But when we get back, we'll be talking with C j about her vision for those who grieve and how to

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best help them move forward in their own lives. Heart to heart with Michael is a presentation of hearts, unite Theglobe and is part of the hug podcast network hearts unite. The globe is a non profit organization devoted to providing resource is to the congenital heart defect community to uplift, empower and enrich the lives of our community members. If you would like access to free resource is pretending to the CHT community. Please visit our website at www congenital heart defects dot com for information about C H D. The hospitals that treat Children with CHD summer camps for CHD survivors and much, much more.

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You are listening to heart to heart with Michael. If you have a question or comment that you would like addressed on our program, please send an email to Michael even at Michael at heart to heart with michael dot com Now back toe Heart to heart With Michael

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Welcome back to heart to heart With

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Michael. Today we're talking with C. J. McKay about how to move forward with life after losing someone you love. Before the break, we were discussing your pursuit of a master's degree in Christian counseling at Dallas Baptist University and how you saw that helping you to endure your own grief. But going forward, how do we see this is helping others who are faced with similar circumstances?

spk_0:   12:38
Well, one of the things going back to school is I had to study a little bit about Elizabeth Kubler Ross and, um, although she did a great job of teaching the world about the five stages of grief in her book on Death and Dying in 1969. Unfortunately, um, those five stages were written for the dying, not the living. And so us breathed Parents have Teoh live with the stigma of those five stages. I've even had people come up to me and say, What stage of grief for you in? Well, you know, there's, you know, no stage that you stay in long and you come back and forth to stages all over the place again. And everybody grieves differently because everybody's unique and their relationship is is unique. So, you know, I think that's Teoh. Try to get that clarified in my book, you know, coming out that you know how grief and emotions are not stops in some linear time, you know, frame along the line. So I hope to clear up that myth as I learned more about it and just to get the people in general to understand the process of of grief. Um, it's not just a stage, it's an ongoing process, and there are triggers. You could go for years and then all of a sudden, bam a song smell of food. You know, something can just knock you off your feet and take your breath away. But my ultimate goal, Michael, is some to change the way the world does grief.

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You have a big job ahead of you if you want to change that.

spk_0:   14:17
You know, I think that I think it starts with changing the language, like from moving on to moving forward. But I think that's Ah. It was a huge thing in me when people would say, move on, move on. We moving on is leaving something behind. But moving forward is taking something with you through a process. And when I that finally clicks in my grieving process, it became easier for me to, you know, move forward and basically, you know, healing. Get it better, you know, along the way. And it it shapes you and it sculpts you. And, um, it teaches you the priorities in life. You know what's really, really important out there, and it's amazing how your Children can still teach you things. You know, after they're gone, compassion and and empathy is more hyphen, you know, in me And you know, you just learned that although you thought you were gonna be your Children. We're gonna be your you know, your legacy that you actually become your Children's legacy. So you pursue your Children's purpose on Earth through what they've taught you in moving forward. That's what I try to do is teach breathed parents to do the same to find something that their child loved and to go out and and and honor their child. By doing that, their child loved an animals and to go volunteer at a at Ah, you know, an animal shelter If your you know your child of art than you know mean, take an art class but to honor your child by something that you know that they loved, you know, doing

spk_3:   16:00
What is it that you do to help keep your Children with you? And do you have you established any rituals?

spk_0:   16:05
I take my kids with me everywhere I go, because they influence you know my my decisions as I go and I'm more grateful in life, you know, for each and every day I try to focus on, you know, the memories and on the good things. I go out of my way to make opportunities. If you walk into my home. My whole house is decorated in things that my Children, you know, had throughout life and so, or even candy, their favorite candy. Anything that I can talk when they say, Oh, we'd like a piece of candy and then say, Oh, this is my favorite. I'll say, Yeah, that was Ben's favorite candy to anything that I can say my child's name and tell their story through is throughout my house, you know? So I t try to teach them that Afar's rituals. Of course I have, you know, lots of them. We breathe parents. We live for rituals and traditions. Now, of course, we honor them, Of course, with the lighting a candle are writing a love letter to them. But you know, on Ben's birthday or we go to a concert. We celebrated because he would like to be a concert on Rick Love. Baseball will go to the Rangers game, you know, unless you know birthday and we still celebrate birthdays. We still will make birthday cakes, and we have dinner at their favorite restaurants. And since they were both born on the seventh of the month, the restaurant we always meet at 7 p.m. You

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know,

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and Patrick plays baseball and he wears us number seven jersey to honor his brothers, you know? So that's how we take them with us, you know, as we go forward, you know, and also at Christmas, we always go to the grave site. We always clean it up, and we always pick out a blanket every year, a new blanket that we lay down, um, on their grave and just as a symbol of, ah, warmth and love you for them. And we do that December 1st and we leave it on the whole month. And that's a kind of a healing ritual that that we look forward to doing for them. Still something we're still doing for them.

spk_3:   18:13
Well, it's beautiful. I was concerned when Leo done that. She was 15. She was autistic, so she didn't have a lot left physically behind for us. But she had done some paintings, one painting in some artwork where she had been living in a house with artistic kids. And so we have that in a prominent place, and we have her. Her ceramics were, you know, decorating the house. But I was concerned that I didn't want the house to become a Leo museum, and I hope I have been walking that line well. I have other Children, and I want my family to still believe it's their house, not just hers. But I certainly understand the need to express yourself, and I really respect that. I think you've probably found some really interesting things that people can do without turning their houses into museums. And I appreciate that. I hope a lot of people are listening to get that too.

spk_0:   19:03
Well, I also, um, when when I do this. I mean, Rick had four Children, so and then, of course, my daughter Brooke in Patrick there, they're involved in this process, so they, you know they will help in the artwork or the setting up of whatever we're doing. So it's a family event, you know, it's a family moving together forward, and I think that's really important because together people divide the pain. When grief tries to isolate us, that's where we get stuck. But with them being involved in this process, the whole family is still here. We're still together.

spk_3:   19:41
Well, I think you very lucky in that sense, because not everybody is ready to talk about things at the same time. And

spk_0:   19:47
yeah, and everybody has to find their, you know, find their way.

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Okay, C J. We appreciate your coming on our show, and we thank you so much for opening up and

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sharing a personal journey through grief and how you're channeling your pain until being others been forward in their lives. So stay tuned. And in our next segment, we're going to talk with C. J about how she bust

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myths and rules on grief and teaches brief parents that they are not alone

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tonight forever by the Baby Blue Sound Collective. I think what I love so much about this CD is that some of the songs were inspired by the patients.

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Many listeners will understand many of the different songs and what they've been inspired. Our new album will be available on iTunes amazon dot com. Spotify.

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I love the fact that the proceeds from this CD are actually going to help those with congenital heart defects

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join music

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home tonight forever. You are listening to heart to heart with Michael. If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on Michael's program. Please email him at Michael at Heart to heart with michael dot com. Now back to our program

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Welcome Back to Heart to Heart with Michael, A program for

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the bereaved. We're here with C. J. McKay, who is sharing her thoughts on grief and how to move forward after and during the loss. In this segment, CJ will help us to dispel some misconceptions about grief and offer up methods to help the bereaved not feel so isolated and alone.

spk_0:   21:23
Well, I think the most important one is that there is no time limit and no timeframe, and society tries to push us through there. And other is there's no right or wrong way to grieve. And one of the things that you know the people can do out there is to give themselves permission to grieve. I actually made little permission slips. That said, I have permission to cry in public. I have permission to, you know, not answer the phone today. So, you know, whatever is comfortable with them, you know that they should do and then expressing themselves. I feel that you know they need to express himself 1000 plus times before they can tell their story without crying. And actually, you know, I have lived that through because I was reading in Proverbs 31 I came to the part where she, the Proverbs 31 woman had wrapped herself in purple, and I was so basically upset because there was no compassion. I thought in the world right after my son, it passed away, and so I looked up the word purple and it said compassion. And then I thought, Royalty. My son is in heaven with royalty. And so I went right down to, ah, the salon and dyed my hair purple, and I went to the grocery store, and I call this story that, you know, brief in the grocery store, because when I stood in line at the grocery store, people would make start making comments about my hair. And although my sisters and my brothers and my neighbors had kind of, like, pretended nothing had ever happened because they didn't want to hurt my feelings by bringing up, you know, my son's name. People in the grocery store were attentive and wanted to hear about my story. And so as I as they said something about my hair being purple, I would say thank you very much. Do you know what purple stands for? It stands for compassion and it stands for royalty. And my sons now live with royalty. So of course they would ask me questions and we give me an opportunity to share my child and express myself right there in the grocery store. And I always wanted to make it a teaching opportunity also, So I would always hug them and say, Thank you for being a part of my healing. You know, just listen if you if anybody ever loses, it loses somebody, all you have to do is just listen and be there. So I think that's, you know, a very, very important thing, especially because people are so uncomfortable about talking about grief. Um, you know, in society. So I just think it's important that you know that we can share our story, what people can do for us. Um, they can remember our our Children and say their names share stories that they remember about them. But I think the most important thing that ever happened to me that really got me was when somebody sent me a I'm thinking about you Card on my son's birthday. I think that's a wonderful, you know, validation. And, you know, a show of compassion and love when you can go to the mailbox on their birthday and see that somebody is still thinking about your child and and you

spk_3:   24:43
Is that a lot to expect from from your friends? I mean, for so long. While Leo was alive, everyone knew me. Is the Els dad? I was. The guy walked into the room and started talking about Leo and I. I think it's some point my friends were feeling encroached upon. Soto asked them to remember her now to send letters. Is that Is that a lot to ask of friends? Or is that more of a family thing?

spk_0:   25:02
No, I don't I don't think so. I think it in my case, I feel like God has put me in a position of a teaching position. And in order for me to change the world, um, like Mother Teresa, you know you can't feed the whole world, but you can feed one child. So if I can teach one person, how toe have more compassion to help somebody else down the road that, you know. Hopefully it it'll be a ripple effect and it will help somebody else down the road. So no, I don't think so. I think it's my responsibility now that I have a new awareness of what grief is. I mean, who. But we the grieving people can teach what we need through grief. If we don't tell them, how are they ever gonna know? Because there there was a point when we didn't know Michael when we were

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Truman

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person and we did not know these things. But now that we have this new knowledge, it's kind of like Paul on the road to Damascus and the scales that fell off his eyes, the new eyes. We have new eyes, you know. And so we were the ones that have been chosen. I feel now to go out and reach out and teach

spk_3:   26:12
one of the things that we do in our family and our tradition is we get together once a year on the anniversary of her death on and we get together and we invite friends and we have lunch together. Um, and then we like you, said, it's a teaching experience, so we find someone to teach either about a subject or of relevant to her life. Or we might get a professional who will speak about some of the issues that she had medically. But we turned into a teaching experience and a gathering of close friends to talk about and think about Leo. And then we go up to the gravesite and those who want to come common those who don't don't but it's a It's a rounded, perfect day for us. Maybe through that we can teach those people on their own in future to come to us. And I know that it has worked because some of my friends come up to me in advance. They are we getting together this year, so it's something that that they look forward to, and I think it helps because the feeling that your grief now is public, the new agree for somehow shared by others. Not that they have to grief your Children, of course not. But but there, there to support you and carry that load with you. I think that's a good thing.

spk_0:   27:23
I do, too. I do, too. I mean, we still share their their milestones with them. I mean, we still attend their their Children's graduation or their Children's weddings, you know, So they get to we get to continue to share their Children. So why shouldn't we be able to continue to share? You know, our Children. And I love that you that you do that, that you have that ritual and that's we need more of that. We need more of that teaching out there, that it's okay to talk about grief. It's OK to honor them, and that's how we do honor them. Michael is by by living, we honor them by living. And, um, I just don't know a better way to honor my child than then to teach somebody some compassion or you know about how important it is to spend time with people. And we do that when we get together. Like you said,

spk_3:   28:17
As you know, we like to conclude the program with a dollop of good hope, and I believe you have done that. I think you've given us something to look forward to in some way to move ahead with a smile and two, as we said earlier, to move ahead without moving away and to bring our loved ones with us as a part of who we are if they have certainly contributed to our makeup. Um and I I thank you for that because I think a lot of people need to break out of solitude and realize that you can share this in a way that they could help you carry your load. And that's what friends dio. And that's what people

spk_0:   28:52
and the last thing I just want to say is that, you know, in Matthew, you know, it tells us that you know that love is the greatest commandment and that we are to love our neighbor. And grief is just another form of love. And so we're just following what it says in the Bible. You know, toe love, our neighbor. You know, when we express our grieving

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that concludes this episode of Heart to Heart with Michael again, I want to thank C J. McKay for

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sharing with us on hope her story has brought some hope to. Those of you were listening. Please join me or the heart to heart with Michael Team in Pal talk every week following our program, I'll talk to you soon, and until

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then remember, it's okay to breathe.

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Thank you again for joining us. We hope you have gained strength from listening to our program. Heart to heart with Michael could be heard every Thursday at noon Eastern time. We'll talk again next time when we'll share more stories. If you would like to continue today's discussion, please join us right after the program in the hug podcast chat room on how talk.