Bereaved But Still Me

Boomers on the Launching Pad 2

May 07, 2020 Philip Proctor and Jamie Alcroft Season 4 Episode 5
Bereaved But Still Me
Boomers on the Launching Pad 2
Show Notes Transcript

Boomers on the Launching Pad 2 picks up our continuing conversation with comedians, actors, writers, and all-around great people Philip Proctor and Jamie Alcroft. In a round table discussion, they talk with Host Michael Liben about birth, death, life - and all things before and after. It's a fascinating look at friendship that will surely bring a smile to your face.

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Michael Liben:   0:00
Hi, this is Michael and if you're watching on video, first of all, thank you for your donation, and secondly, congratulations.. But if you're watching on video, you could also see that time has passed since our last episode. Our episode today is Boomers on the Launching PadPart Two with two wonderful guests who were with us last month, Philip, Procter and Jamiel Alcroft, two great comedians, actors, authors and thinkers of our age. Jamie recently received a heart and a liver donation. Philip recently received his pacemaker, and I'm in generally good health. The three of us all boomers sat around discussing life, death on the world in between. But at the risk of dating ourselves and this program we recorded at a time when Corona and its subsequent lock down, we're far enough out on the horizon that we really didn't relate to it. Here in those days of the foggy recent past, two men could sit together at a table and share a single microphone. I think we need to relate to Corona here, so I remind you, please stay inside, stay safe and be good to the ones you love and who love you to please enjoy boomers on the launching pad. Part two.

spk_0:   1:05
It's funny, too, because we did that album. What was it? How can you be in two places at once?

spk_2:   1:10
Yeah, I think. Yeah,

spk_0:   1:11
for sure. Anywhere at all. Anywhere I we came up with the idea of climate control in the car. And you know that that very year they created climate control in the car. Had at first because I can't futurist because his was thunderstorms story. Right? But yes, a lot of stuff that we predicted came true.

spk_2:   1:35
That would give me a second. What else? What else? That you predicted, Dr. Memory, Right? They are

spk_0:   1:40
waiting for the electrician's someone like it I had on the second side of the stuff first album and a story of an Eastern European country that was basically overthrowing the yoke of its oppressors. The Soviet Union was availed thing about this over union. And Lech Walesa was the first leader in Poland with the glasses and the wasn't glasses. Does ah pair strike up a striker? No, that was another one. No, it was something else. But it was a bereavement. Boris was over the bush and solidarity solid as it sounded almost done. Thank you very much. Look at it, folks. They got it. That's what His job. Waas. Before he became president of polling, whenever

spk_2:   2:27
he was an electrician's in a shipyard. That's correct. Thank you. Ships Electrician's. So waiting for the electricity. Or so like you OK, is that's just one sample. My gosh. So many were time travellers, weren't you?

spk_0:   2:42
Well, you know, we predicted the cellphone V it. Well, OK, whether the craziest thing is that if you and I'm gonna try it, if you speak to Syria and you say something to her, she'll answer you and then

spk_2:   2:57
I'll explain it here. I I know this one. Go ahead. But

spk_0:   3:00
this is workers speaking. Hello?

spk_3:   3:03
Hello. Are Clem What function can I perform for you?

spk_4:   3:07
L A Well,

spk_0:   3:08
all right. I'm Clem. We did an album called I Think We're All Bozo's on this bus. And by the way, the buses is actually a terminal in a computer. Men send signals to other places as well as being a physical bus in the album. And I was a disaffected worker guy named Clem. When the computer asked me my name, I hesitated. Ah, clam. So I became a clam, all right in and I planted. Although we didn't use these words, I planted a virus in the mainframe computer and brought the whole system down. Okay, The system being a future fair that the government and organized to keep everybody happy, you know, in spite of the fact that times were hard, right, and so basically, uh, okay. And then many years later, I met Steve Jobs when I was doing voices for a Bug's Life for Pixar and he was at the cast and crew party. And when I met him, he said, I'm a big fan of yours and I said, Let that's that's great, you know? So the then when we were getting our archival material together to send a Washington Taylor Jessen, our archivist, came across some contact sheets which have seen off of the Firesign Theater signing records at a record store in Berkeley. And and there are a lot of pictures taken with this guy long black hair, a black tea with his arms around us and everything was Steve Jobs as, and so he planted. He put this this little Easter egg. I guess you'd call it in the phone isn't oh my to the Firesign Theater. Because that album, The Bozo's Album, inspired him, he says to Teoh, Pursue the development of the of the home computer.

spk_2:   5:01
How about some wild? That's amazing. You guys are responsible for, like things that we take for granted as absolutely. In a very signal, I mean, look, my eyes hurt.

spk_0:   5:12
Ville will live on forever because of that,

spk_2:   5:14
he will. He will. He won't because I gotta like patricians might. My sister gave it to my brother as a gift. I think I was nine. Ah, and I stole it and I wouldn't let it go, and I memorized it. Wow, even even know I'm very even, though I'll say things that come out of nowhere that people go what I know. I'll have a western portion of his Eastern, just everything. We to one piece of Nigeria. Yeah, right. Every day, every damn in a position to quote that album and I don't Then we can shout you right? I said it all the time. The thing is that we

spk_0:   5:54
know I have a Facebook page on also planet proctor dot com. If anybody is interested in a block have been doing for 25 years. And whenever I post anything or I see things that people have posted, there'll be a whole thread of my gender lines, you know, that that are in in keeping with the topic that is presented. And I'm just so tickled by that,

spk_2:   6:18
you know, that was my next question.

spk_0:   6:19
Yeah, well, especially since I can't remember any of the lines myself, you know? So it's absolutely, really fun to see. Can I just say the coach

spk_2:   6:28
worker worker? Ah, Clem had a lot of difficulty getting into zoom tonight, folks. So he's here. So what else do you need to know? I need to know everything. How less do I know if I need to know it or not?

spk_0:   6:45
That's right. Just keep asking. That's right. Right. I know what you need to know. Until you. Yeah. So long as we're here learning needed lessons.

spk_2:   6:52
I've got some more questions. Carefully prepared. Coaching questions here were very Let me ask you. All right. We know that death is inevitable, right? We've talked about it. We've joked about it. We've We've done the best. We could Teoh accept it. Yeah, but ah, Jamie you went through. Ah, double transplant. Okay. Yes, I did. Yes, you did. You feel that? You've got a pacemaker. Death is inevitable. But are we going out kicking and screaming? Dancing

spk_0:   7:23
gal, I Yeah, I'm dancing. Yeah, way accept the inevitable. Yeah, You know, I think that's part of the calming.

spk_2:   7:32
Yeah, we look, look as best as we can.

spk_0:   7:35
Michael. When I was told by my doctor that my heart had gone down to 7% function and then I he looked me right in the eye, Said you need a new heart and but didn't know other. Didn't you say you need a new heart? You need a noise. Was Indian was? Yes. Yes. You need a new needle. Hard. Yesterday I had somebody say to meet him. He said, Your car, it looks like a joy. What? And I said what he said He looks very much like a jar. Our Joe. It was a Jaguar. Jennette's find out that my car looked like

spk_2:   8:20
crazy. That car has been making money for you.

spk_0:   8:24
I'll tell you what. When he told me that I needed a new heart in whatever accent he used, uh, which he was just putting on accent for me. He always do that. He would always do that French us A German insight you'll need you in. So there's a good girl. You need a new heart. So I,

spk_4:   8:50

spk_0:   8:51
I remember the sense station of all of the controlled. When I talked, I told Anna about this all of the control draining from the top of my head down through my body and out through my feet. I mean, it was really ah, literal sensation of just this whole Zen thing happening. And when I let go of that control, I knew that I had let cook go any control in my life. And I just turn myself over to the hands of the medical experts. And I never looked back when I was laying in the hospital bed. They would save me. Now what we're going to do, Mr Al Croft, is I say, stop. Don't tell me what you're gonna do. Do just do it because it doesn't matter to me what you're going to do. Well, I just wanted to tell you Well, it doesn't matter to me what you're going to do. You are the You're the ones that are going to save my life. I'm not going to save my life. And and so degree of control that you let go of now I think of you have been diagnosed with cancer. Yes. You fight it tooth and nail. Um, if you've been diagnosed with something that you have ah, modicum of control over you and I had no control whatsoever over this, and I totally let go. And that was really one of the most pristine and evangelical ways of of looking at my situation. And it freed me up to write a book that I was lying there because I wasn't worried about anything, right? I never worried about a thing. And people would say where your attitude is so great. Well, sure, my attitude is great. What other attitude? What I adopt, right? Given this news, you know what? I worry what I You know I can't worry over something I have no control over. So I just let it go. And it was one of the most wonderful feelings on. Even when I was laying in bed, I realized, Well, I'm really lucky. I am going through something that not many people get to live through. That's certainly and I may not live through it, but I'm living it right now, and I enjoyed every single solitary moment of

spk_2:   11:05
it that comes out of the book that you really

Michael Liben:   11:07
made the most of your time. They're just sort of waiting and thinking, going over life. Michael wasn't the most making the most of my time was the making the most of my situation, really, that it's really different. That's true

spk_5:   11:30
forever by the Baby Blue Sound collective. I think what I love so much about this CD is that some of the songs were inspired by the patients.

Michael Liben:   11:40
Many listeners will understand many of the different songs and what they've been inspired by. Our new album will be available on iTunes. Amazon dot com. Spotify

spk_5:   11:50
I love the fact that the proceeds from this CD are actually going to help those with Joe Hart effects.

Michael Liben:   11:57
Join Music

spk_5:   11:58
Home Tonight Forever

spk_3:   12:04
Hi, my name is Jamie Al Croft, and I just published my new book, The Tin Man Diaries. It's an amazing story of my sudden change of heart as I went through a heart, a liver transplant, I can think of no better way to read It's in man diaries than to cuddle up in your favorite hearts. Unite the Globe sweatshirt and your favorite hot beverage, of course, in your hearts Unite Blow mug, both of which are available. The hug, podcast network, online store or visit hearts. Unite the globe dot

spk_5:   12:34
This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. The opinions expressed in the podcasts are not those of hearts unite the globe but of the hosts and guests, and are intended to spark discussion about issues pertaining to congenital heart disease or bereavement. You are listening to heart to heart with Michael. If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on Michael's program, please email him at Michael at heart to heart with michael dot com. Now back to our program.

spk_0:   13:09
It was an angel whispering in my ear. It was my nurse trying to get me back on the ventilator. Really, That's exactly what it waas well, tickets, James time more ethereal. Well, I tend I choose to regard it as more ethereal on. I choose to regard it as my spiritual moment because I did see a temple, and it was an aerial view of is a drone view of a temple. And, um, it was Grecian Roman, that wonderful rose marble color mixed with the light sandalwood marble color. And at the front of at the top altar of the temple was a small woman, and she said, James B. L. Croft Jr. Are you ready to accept your new heart and liver on? And I said Yes, she said, Breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth. I did, and all of a sudden a cuttlefish bone appeared floating about three feet off the ground of the temple. It was just It was just floating there. And all of a sudden these rooms, orange bands, started to appear around the cuttlefish bone every time I breathe in and breathe out. So I breathe in through my nose and out through my mouth. And she was very encouraging. She said, You're doing great. That's wonderful. Good. Keep going. Okay. Okay. Good. And every time. Yet it recovered the cuttlefish bone with these thieves. Bright orange coils. And then suddenly the corn coils morphed into my body on I could see my nose. I could see my chest. I could see my feet sticking up and I was just laying there underneath these these tightly wrapped orange right neon bands. And, um then she said, You're doing well. You've now received your new heart and liver. Thank you. And I said, Thank you. So that is breathed spiritual. I asked to see. Want some of that? Well, I asked to see the video when I eventually came around three days later, they had me in a self induced coma, medically induced him. I'm in itself into right now, but I um I I asked, the doctor said, I want to see that video. Can I see the video? He's what? Video? No, wait, He had an accent to What do you do? One? You showed me the one who showed me in the temple with the bands and the whole thing. So no, that video, he said. No, That video doesn't exist. Really, it's on demand. That was all in your head. It's not good for it. Yeah, you're hit. I think it's on the stars that well, that's Oh gosh, so hard to get this on the Starz network. Any and a beautiful story. It was at that point that I realized this was my own video, and I will always have those images in my mind. I will always hear her voice. But when I think about it, in retrospect, they did have to get me off of the ventilator. They had to get me breathing on my own again. And I think they're saying Breathe in through your mouth and out through your nose. No matter what I was seeing was purely something clinical. But my mind, my active imagination world, was was it was kind of between worlds. I mean, after all I was I had laid there for 12 hours without a heart, a liver in my body, and now all of a suddenly put this heart and the liver in and they hook it up. My doctor did say that when he put my heart in, he stitched it once. And then he stitched it twice. And on the third stitch, it started beating. Wow, the alley happy. You know what you're doing for me, that you don't need it, but you know,

spk_2:   17:19
But it didn't skip. That's good. But that

spk_0:   17:22
was really touching that they didn't have to put the paddles on me. Because sometimes when they put ah previously enjoyed heart into a new cavity. Also, when I went for my first ultrasound after my transplant, Yeah, it took them 25 minutes to find my heart in my chest cavity because they don't attach it to anything but the they don't typically. Don't reattach the nerves or anything, so it's just kind of floating. It was floating and my my old heart had expanded three times the size. So my chest cavity was so big, big, this little bitty hard in there they couldn't find it was hard to find. It was very hard to find. I am. Oh, gosh. Well, what are we gonna do with him, Michael? What are

spk_2:   18:11
we gonna know? It's to live with this. We're going to treasure him and hold him

spk_0:   18:16
close away. I'm sorry. That's why we created boomers on the bench. Yeah, together. That's right. You know, So we could live with the Yeah, but what you can find on Facebook? We didn't like 100 of them. You can actually find it on YouTube on YouTube? Yes,

spk_2:   18:29
Yes. And their extent and I I highly recommend boomers on the bench based on factual news. Yeah, it's actually proving that I have seen them. Okay. Yeah, but I absolutely you know, I just want you I never When When? Ah, when boomers abruptly stopped because of your ah, heart issue way found out we were talking about the general public. It was a while before we found out that I think you wrote a letter that Phil was able to put out from you for us so that we would know why it stopped and where you were. Ah, we were pulling feel as a group. I mean, I was reading up on things that were happening. Ah, here in Israel, they were doing things, make crazy things to help people who were waiting to help. Sort of, like, push the heart while they were waiting. I I wrote I sent off to finish it. Is this something Jamie should know about? I'm nobody. I don't know anything. I don't know about your condition, but but the general population out here we were We were pulling for you in a real serious way.

spk_0:   19:32
I really appreciate that I had done. I've done a video game called Gears of war for the last 12 years. 123 and five. Well, because I skipped for because I was new heart while I was getting a new heart and they were about to put out for they had to replace me with someone else. And the producers put out a message that Viktor Hoffman, uh, needed a new heart as you can. And that was my carrying. Everybody pulled for Victor, cause Victor was in there fighting for his life, and all of these fans from Gears of War gathered together and and sent these wonderful messages of inauguration. It was just fantastic. Yeah. Now I just want to mention that when in my book, Where's my fortune cookie? Uh,

spk_2:   20:20
which for anybody watching video looks like this. Yeah, OK, the

spk_0:   20:23
first chapter is about my survival. Yeah, with your Bergman and a Chinese gangland shooting. And as I was under the table that Jamie story about, you know, being between the world's kind of reminded me as I was under the table. I had learned that morning that my wife Barbara Oh, my no reaching life second wife was pregnant and eso she didn't come up to San Francisco with us and therefore the whole circumstance change. If she had come up, we would have never been in a Chinese restaurant called the Golden Dragon. At 2 30 in the morning with our friend Bill Alexander, Dr Bill Alexander and I would not be cowering under a table behind the steel column off of the table, which have figured protected me as three Chinese guys came in here very skinny. Then I was very really skin very slim, and they started shooting, had a B, a R automatic, a rifle and a shotgun and a pistol, and they shot up The place killed three people right in front of us. They were part of the Giovane gang, retaliating against the watching. The young Chinese were trying to take over the rackets on Geo. Fong was in prison, but he was still, you know, ordering hits and things that they were watching him. They were watching it under the table on. They were not hurt, but at as I was lying on the table and Jamie started, mind me this I was thinking, If I live, I will have the responsibility of raising a child. If I die, there's no responsibility. If I wounded, my life will change. Peter is wounded. My professional life will change. You thought all these things? Yeah. There while you're being shot out. Yeah, OK, go. Bang bang is going on. And and And the final thought was, When the drilling is over, you can go home, Dentist, your intends chair. And you know, I always think I went on journeys over and go home. That thought came into my head. And pretty soon after that, the shooting stopped and we assessed the damage. The kicker to the story is that a psychic friend of mine predicted the whole thing. Yes, this is all in the book. Her name is Sharon McCann. It's a long story as to how it's connected with Uri Geller and kind cited for the book way, The book reader. But

spk_2:   22:43
you. Here it is again. What do video video? Where's my fortune cookie?

spk_0:   22:48
All right. Why is the book called that? Not because of the shoot. Because now, when the Firesign Theater was touring around, uh, we had a friend called Gretchen Steiner who was kind of, you know, would come and help us sell merchants stuff like that. And when Peter passed away Peter Bergen about five years ago, we had a memorial service for him at the Electric Lodge in Venice, and she ordered Fortune cookies Okay, that had Peter Bergmann birth date of birth and death and the name of one of our first sign albums on the other side. And she had them out. Everybody. I said, Gretchen, that is so thoughtful of you to do that. It's because of the Chinese gangland shooting. And she said What I said, You know, the Chinese, the Golden Dragon, shooting the Peter I survived. You do what? What should know about? She didn't know about it so well, Why did you Why did you make the fortune cookies? This is what she told me, she said. Peter came to me in a dream and told me I never got my fortune cookie. Wow. Okay, because we were making jokes that we had to perform the next day in Colorado for a university. And Peter was making jokes like, you know, we're making jokes like, luckily, I ordered the duck. Yeah, Peter said a knife, and I ordered the scared crone's on. You said, never got our fortune cookie. You know, if he had a witness said, Get out now. Oh, you know, I mean, when your when your place in these very adverse life and death situations. I do believe that, you know, you are You are protected in a certain way. Yeah. Peter, for instance, felt that he was lying with his back to the shooting, right? Totally exposed. And he remembers an angel covering his body.

Michael Liben:   24:43
A beautiful angel spreading its wings over his body to protect.

spk_3:   24:49
I was five hours old when I had my first surgery.

spk_5:   24:52
The only advice I couldn't really give someone like that is to be there for your family.

spk_3:   24:57
This is life and you have to live it or you sit in a corner and cry.

spk_5:   25:02
I am in a Gorski and the host of heart to heart within a join us on Tuesdays at noon, Eastern time on speaker are blocked Talk radio. We'll cover topics of importance for the congenital heart defect community. Remember, my friends, you are not alone.

Michael Liben:   25:19
If you've enjoyed listening to this program, please visit our website hearts. Unite the globe dot org's and make a contribution. This'll program is a presentation of hearts, unite Theglobe and is part of the Hug Podcast Network are tonight. The globe is a non profit organization devoted to providing resource is to the congenital heart defect community to educate and power and enrich the lives of our community members. If you would like access to free resource is pertaining to the CFC community, please visit our website at congenital heart defects dot com for information about CHD hospitals that treat CHD survivors, summer camps for CHD families and much, much more.

spk_5:   25:58
You are listening to heart to heart with Michael. If you have a question or comment that you would like addressed on our program, please send an email to Michael even at Michael at heart to heart with michael dot com. Now back toe heart to heart With Michael

spk_0:   26:14
In my book and Jamie's book, we we talk about our lives are certainly what we could remember lives right. And in both instances, there were things that happened to us that guided us again, over which we have no control. You know, if you go with the flow, go with the flow, you know, put your hands put your life in the hands of God of the universe. You will be protected on you will be you also. I'm sure be taken when you are needed. All right. Yeah, but basically you'll be protected. I'm on. My life has been like that. And the book, My book is filled with strange psychic occurrences. Strange, inexplicable coincidences. Yep. Yeah, all kinds of things. No, seriously, UFO's as well. Yeah, but but are my f O's. You're a phone, not

spk_2:   27:08
your and e opposed to myself.

spk_0:   27:12
All right. We were in our. So anyway, that's my belief that that that the the next world is with us that we live in a multi dimensional reality and the consciousness is the key to, uh, enjoying it to embracing it. Teoh Learning from our time in this planetary expression. You saying I think faith and belief have a lot to do lists because, oh, whether you have faith, I mean, I've for me, God is a word. Ah ah, euphemism for whatever. Fantastic. Cataclysmic. Ah, thing that happened. Big banger, whatever. That created our planet and created where we are right now. And as far as I'm concerned, this might be heaven. This might be heaven. We might have been ah, la thinking We were alive before and suddenly we were born into this world. So I consider this world my heaven. And I spell God with two O's. I've always taught my Children two Don't don't surf Search for some mythical being in the sky Don't search for for that Just spell God with two O's And keep the goodness Teoh Hardy's. Oh, good, good. Keep the goodness in your heart, right?

spk_2:   28:40
Yeah, I agree with that assessment 100%. So that and

spk_0:   28:45
soas faras seeing God or experiencing God or anything I That happens every day for me When I see God and everybody I meet every face I see And when you're dying, um Or when you think you might be dying like I did for four months? Um, I more minutes for me, for buds, for everything. Like for longer. Maybe every face I saw it could have been the last face I saw. And I never knew when the last count when a conversation might be my last one. Wow. And so I made everything count and I've tried to bring that into my life. It's difficult because you get impatient. You have to forgive yourself for your impatience. You get angry, you forgive yourself for your anger and try to see good and God in every person you come in contact with. Every person you meet is God.

spk_2:   29:46
Thank you for that. I think you've really given me something there. Oh, I was, You know, I was on. I was on your podcast and somebody asked me, What have I learned? You remember? Yes. And one of the things I just learned was that Yeah, that's beautiful. And that's really nice. And and fill to I In my professional career. Over the last 37 years, I have seen it Sort of is a chain where one thing leads to another, but it's not always direct. Sometimes you go like that in a big circle. Oh, yeah, a little interconnected, you know? Oh, yeah. I mean, an example of it, which

spk_0:   30:18
is in the book, which is maybe something that will resonate with with the listeners today is Ah, I would. I went back to New York after the Firesign Theater happened. I went back to New York to close up my apartment in Greenwich Village, and I ended up living with Ah, girl named Anna Do an invented electric clothing. You see a picture of her clothing in the book and in the East Village. And, uh, at a certain point I knew that affair was over and that I had to move on and I went and I remember we went. I went down to have a conversation with her about it, and the phone rang and she picked it up and she said, It's for you. It was Peter Bergmann and he said, There's a plane ticket waiting for you at the Columbia Records building. We're going to do our first record waiting for the electrician's or someone like him. So when can you fly home? When can you fly out? I said, How about tomorrow? Yeah, see, it was like one. My daughter was closing. Another door was opening. You know, there are many, many, many, many experiences in my life that have been just like that, because, as Hamlet says, the readiness is all Yes, as Shakespeare said through his character Hammer, the readiness is all. If your mind is open, be open. If your heart is, um, your heart is open to the goodness of it Then you will follow the correct path now losing someone. I could only imagine how difficult that is. I've only lost beloved pets, and that's been hard. But I've never you know, other than my parents who've died and with parents you expect explaining that you want to. You're there for them. They were there for you. So you're prepared for it all. Your life is a child. Yeah, but it's zat. I've never thought of that before. Yes, that's right. But to lose last you did you lose a beloved child and things like that man, really. You must cause you to to to think about all these things from a different perspective. You know,

spk_2:   32:27
I'm glad you asked that because I do think about it. And a couple of years ago, after I guess about five years after she died, I caught myself looking back over my life and thinking that life's been pretty good. And then I hit myself. What are you talking about? You know, all these years of terrible economic compression and then the loss of your daughter. And then hey, I got him then the loss of your daughter. And how could you possibly say life has been good and I can So my may be My last question is, Can we complain? I mean, you've been through some terrible, terrible moments. And yet, as boomers, we were born in an age when penicillin still work, we were born in an age when we had everything. This is the first and maybe only generation where you expect to outlive your parents, right in our parent's generation. They all have 10 kids, so that if you would become adults, it wasn't that easy. It's not taking for granted that you outlive your parents for us. It waas. So can we complain? Is bad is as bad as those moments have been for us is horrible as it conveyed. Can we complain?

spk_0:   33:30
No, I think like Jamie. It says we have to be Trailblazers, you know? I mean out of out of complaint Complaint isn't is a state of being of imbalance where you feel out of touch with yourself, your conscience, your universe, your surroundings, your loved ones. It's a state of imbalance. It's imperfection and what you must learn to do. And believe me, it's taking me along here just to do it. I think everybody. You have to learn to persevere in a positive way. I know that whenever I reached a point of real depression or economic need or, you know, had to kind of analyze my life at the point midlife crises, they call it all that I would literally make a list of the good and the bad that was happening in my life. If then I could see it in perspective, Do you? And I would, you know, move to the positive side? I charged my battery with a positive charge, and it would invariably get me moving again and out of whatever depressive or negative state that I found myself in. That's just one little technique. But the thought process of it is what's important. And look at the being optimistic, you know? And I think with you you you want to know that Leal is in a a safe, happy place. Yeah. Oh, and I'm sure his apparent that is tantamount when when you lose a child that you because you want them to be happy in this life and safe in this life. And if you went through so much, so they got control. You went through so much to make her life good. You really did. And that's why you had a good life. Because you're a good man who did a good thing when you had to. You made her life good and you made her death means something else with the donorship of the organs and that it's got to be hard. Michael in and my heart just aches for you. But But I think I think to know that there is something beyond this life and that something is probably more wonderful than this life. I think that's where belief helps you. I had a guy right to me and say Now that you've received a new heart, does it reinforce your belief in Jesus Christ? Our lord and I said, Well, I never really believed in Jesus Christ as our lord before, but all the prayers I received all the good thoughts I've received all the good vibes I received the core element of those and the reason that those work are the fact that the people that sent them to me believe in them. And it's that power of belief and faith we have in each other and for each other. They carries us through I that's that's what I've come to believe, and that's what I wrote back to him. I said It has nothing to do with whether it's a prayer or good thought to revive, because each of those people believed in the vibe, the good thought and the prayer. And that's where the power is.

spk_2:   36:47
Well, I think I think you're right and thank you for your kind words. And I would be remiss if I didn't say that donation was my wife's idea. Not that I was ever against it. My head wasn't there. It was my wife that put that in there. And that's Tony Stark that partnership. So another thing I want to say is, um, I think you've described it in a way that I never understood it, but when she was dying, I had that loss of control. I couldn't control that anymore right from the first day when she started, I knew that it was over when when we got to the hospital, the doctor said, you got two choices bad and really bad and really bad is that she might recover as put me already into acceptance. I knew that she was dying. I was prepared for it in some way, and it was nothing I could control. And I think that touches your experience

spk_0:   37:36
there. Have to let that go. You don't necessarily surrender. I think surrender is the wrong word. Yes, I have to accept. Really? Just let it go because they say to me, You know what? You surrendered. No, no, I didn't know. I'll never saw a white flag. I'll never

spk_2:   37:54
served view. It surrendered. The transplant would never work. You dancing under? Yeah, but do let go. And that can't control that.

spk_0:   38:03
That's right. And that's kind of been one of the messages of of our conversation today, which is that you know that grief has its place in our lives, on bereavement and on expression of the understanding of loss. It's very important to go through those. Absolutely. Yes, because it makes you honor the gift of life even mawr, right? And and it is absolutely vital that you you let go. You let go in order to experience the wonders around us and the things that will happen to you, you know? And you pay tribute to those that you've lost. Yeah, living on by living your life and, you know, bestest, you can also honor people who have understandings higher spiritual understandings ever. Yeah, you know, Jesus is a role model. Yeah, you know, when he's properly interest interpreted. So, you know, weaken? Yeah, we could get a lot of love from those people around us who are positive and, you know, and true friends like Jamie and I are true friend. It's true. You

spk_2:   39:10
guys are role models, by the way, As friends, I I'm inspired just watching here. Oh, Jamie on Craft 10 Man Diaries Where can we get this book

spk_0:   39:20
amazon dot com Go to Amazon 9 99 Ooh, it's a steal. It is a steal in 6 66 I just keep

spk_2:   39:30
it on a tractor. The book is Where's my fortune cookie? It's the I'm gonna try to read it the right way. It's the psychics or realistic history or psyche. Realistic history. Here it is. There it is. Look at this book and I just want to say two words about each book. All right, Jamie is book, uh, when When people find themselves in life, life threatening situations, often their life flashes before their eyes. I wrote this, um, but luckily for us, his went by nice and slow. Like a movie. He took good notes. Read this book. Okay. And I want to say also about where's my fortune cookie? And I've also put this somewhere in print reading. Where's my fortune? Cookie will change your life buying. Where's my fortune? Cookie will change Philip Rodgers Life. Help us. Thank you are, sir. Two wonderful, wonderful books. And they're not that big. You can read them in a day and you'll have a great two days. I promise. You just ask those.

spk_0:   40:27
Ask those Amazons to get together together. Wonderful, ladies, and bring

Michael Liben:   40:31
it to your doorstep for a

spk_2:   40:33
handprint. Every book. Quite Amazon ladies. Yeah, right.

Michael Liben:   40:37
Thank you.

spk_5:   40:39
Thank you again for joining us. We hope you have gained strength from listening to our program. Heart to heart with Michael can be heard every Thursday at noon Eastern time. We'll talk again next time when we'll share more stories. Uh,