Mastering Parent-Child Conversations with Negotiation Skills

Can parenting advice be found in a book about negotiation? Surprisingly, the answer is yes! As I recently explored the book Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss, I discovered that the lessons I gained from this read not only improved my business negotiation skills but also offered valuable insights into parenting. Join me in this enlightening episode that will change your perspective on parenting conversations, arguments, and even interactions with your partner.

Being attuned to emotions is essential in both negotiation and parenting. Today, we discuss the power of empathy, inspired by Dr. Marc Brackett's book Permission to Feel, and its role in understanding our children's emotions. Learn how emotional awareness and labelling emotions can lead to more effective communication and better parenting. This conversation will undoubtedly transform the way you approach communication in both your personal and professional life. Don't miss it!


Never split the difference book:
https://amzn.to/3JvDcoB

Permission to feel book:
https://amzn.to/42WeBQy

Research study:
What to Teach Parents to Reduce Disruptive Child Behavior: Two Meta-Analyses of Parenting Program Components
https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:7c3ad0a2-b215-4d45-9509-4ad724cd77c6/download_file?safe_filename=2019%2BLeijten%2Bet%2Bal_accepted_JAACAP_what%2Bto%2Bteach%2Bparents%2Bto%2Breduce%2Bdisruptive%2Bchild%2Bbehavior.pdf&file_format=application%2Fpdf&type_of_work=Journal+article

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello, dear friend, welcome back to another episode of the Cures Neuron podcast. My name is Cindy Huffington and I am your host. If you are new here, welcome. I am a mom of three from Montreal, canada, and I have a PhD in neuroscience. What I do here at Cures Neuron whether it's the podcast, instagram or the website is I share science and insights focused around your child's emotional health and development, and that means that I talk about your emotional well-being as well, because everything ties in together. Your child's environment includes you and your mental health matters, and their mental health matters too.

Speaker 1: 0:38

So today I'm talking about a book that I read a little while back now, but it's called Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. This was a book that I read to prepare myself for meetings and negotiations in business, but turns out that a negotiation book has lots of really subtle and hidden parenting advice, and that's what I wanted to share with you today. So I know you're probably thinking like what is she going to talk about? Lots of things, and I really want you to stay tuned, because I've learned so much from this book, not only in terms of how I negotiate, for example, a no in negotiation. I've always perceived that as such a bad thing to send an email to somebody, or to be in a meeting and somebody you know you're pitching and they're like no. But now I see it so differently because of this book. But the same thing applies with parenting. You're going to see, everything that I share with you today will change your lens for certain conversations with your child, for certain arguments you have with your child or even with your partner. So I'm hoping that what I've learned will be something that you get to take home and apply as well As always.

Speaker 1: 1:45

Before I begin, i'd like to thank the Tanenbaum Open Science Institute here at the Neuro in Montreal for supporting the Keras Neuron podcast. It means everything to me that an academic institution and a research institution here in Montreal supports the Keras Neuron podcast. Open science is important to them, as it is to me and to us here at Keras Neuron, because I want to make sure that science is accessible for parents. I came out of research and I just felt that there were lots of people telling us what to do as parents, but nobody was saying why, and I want to give you that why. So that's what Keras Neuron is all about. If you haven't done so yet, make sure that you subscribe to the Keras Neuron podcast And if you've listened to a couple of episodes and you're enjoying it and you're sticking around with me, thank you.

Speaker 1: 2:29

Please also take a moment to rate and review the podcast on Spotify or on Apple podcast. Every single rating, even if it's one second of rating it on five stars, whatever you decided is it really makes a difference, because I am sponsored. They look at data and stats and metrics And that little moment that you take makes a big difference for me to continue this podcast. So please take that moment. Also, if you'd like to join us on Instagram, you can join us at curious underscore neuron. I post little snippets of research there. The full source is always there on the slide and you can go on and read more if you'd like, or you can just head on to our website at curious neuroncom.

Speaker 1: 3:08

We have the Keras Neuron Academy where you have some webinars that help you understand your child's behavior and how they're linked to emotions. There's another webinar on how you can go back to your childhood and understand how that might have impacted the way that you're parenting. There's our very popular PDF called meltdown mountain. This one is our most popular item at the academy. You can get it for free. By the way, if you read the podcast, send me an email at info at curious neuroncom and I will send you the PDF for free as a thank you and a $20 off coupon for our compassionate parenting package that has all the webinars you need. So please send me an email at info at curious neuroncom And obviously, on the website, there's always the articles that we write where we summarize research for you.

Speaker 1: 3:57

You'll also notice something a little bit different in the show notes. I've started partnering with some companies that have products that I believe are important for you or your child. So there is Poc Poc Playroom, which is an app. It is a very non stimulating, calm app. That was the first app that I downloaded for my kids. You can get 50% off their one year subscription if you click on the link in the show notes, and I am so happy that I have brought on better help to this podcast as a partner as well as a friend. They also give you a discount for a subscription, so if you are looking for therapy and you cannot leave your home, you can do this all from the comfort of your home with better help. So the links to Poc Poc and better help are in the show notes. And, as always, because I am the co founder of the WonderGrade app, if you are looking for an app that's going to help your kids, ages three to eight, learn how to cope with emotions, while also teaching you a thing or two about how to support them in their emotions, how to understand their emotions and how to nurture your own, you can download the WonderGrade app, which is my app. It's an app that I'm co founder of. It's been a year now and you can test it out for free for two weeks. All those links are in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 5:14

All right, so on to the book. Never Split the Difference. The link is in the show notes as well.

Speaker 1: 5:19

I started reading this book because for the past couple of years, i've been working on setting boundaries, i've been working on my self-compassion, and one thing is in conversation just the way that I feel, especially in business. Often people are criticizing you, and that's part of having a company, especially with a tech company like I have with WonderGrade. Everything is criticized and that's part of it. But I wanted to know when I'm sitting there with an executive or I'm sitting there in a business meeting or pitching to somebody. I just wanted to know, like, what sort of thoughts I should have and how to go about these in a better way. So I read the book, never Split the Difference. But what kept standing out to me as I was reading it is that there's so much that this person, chris Voss, shares, who was an FBI negotiator, and there are so many things that stand out to me that are really important for parents.

Speaker 1: 6:09

So listen to this line that's at the beginning of his book. It says it all starts with a universal premise that people want to be understood and accepting. Listening is the best way to get there. So when we think of negotiations, we also sometimes you know, for myself anyways I think about, like saying the right thing at the right time. But I have learned from this book that it's not about that. Obviously it's part of it, but listening is the most important part. And that line when it's he says it all starts with a universal premise that people want to be understood and accepted.

Speaker 1: 6:40

I keep picturing our kids. I keep picturing our toddlers, our young preschoolers, our young children, our youth early teens, teens, whatever it is. It all comes back down to that, doesn't it? And I think that when we start having that from you know mindset and that lens, we view their behavior very differently, because kids will not want to act out on purpose to upset us or piss us off, like some of us might think. It's not that they're trying to be heard or understood or accepted And they're going to behave in ways that they don't necessarily have control over.

Speaker 1: 7:16

He continues to define what listening is And that's demonstrating empathy and showing a sincere desire to better understand what the other side is experiencing. Again, i wrote this down because as I was reading, i just kept picturing that toddler or preschooler. That's so misunderstood. That's. All they want is that they want us to hear them, and it's very hard because we're so busy as parents getting ready for work, getting ready for a doctor's appointment, getting ready for soccer at night or whatever it is stress, just the regular stress of everyday parenting And we might not have the time to truly listen. So if there's one thing that you can switch this week is ask yourself throughout your day am I listening to my child? Am I really demonstrating empathy and showing a sincere desire to better understand the other side and what they are experiencing?

Speaker 1: 8:09

He contrasts the difference between an experienced negotiator versus a great negotiator, and an experienced negotiator will come into a situation with multiple hypotheses. So you know this is what the person wants, this is what they're looking for. They probably, you know, are thinking this versus a great negotiator. They are able to question the assumptions, which, in essence, is going to have a huge change or difference in how you're listening to somebody right Like. You're going to question your assumptions. You're not just going to have the assumptions and then move forward with them. You are going to question them and listen very carefully to the counterpart to see if your assumptions are met or not. Now think of this next sentence when you're having an argument, also with your partner.

Speaker 1: 8:55

So it says most people approach a negotiation so preoccupied by the arguments that support the position that they are unable to actually listen attentively. I've done this myself. They're not talking. When they're not talking, they're thinking about their argument, and when they're talking, they're making their argument. But this is not good listening. This is not listening. That leads to a change in a person's behavior or thoughts or feelings, and this is what negotiation should be about. Chris goes on to say try this Make sure that your soul focus is the other person and what they have to say. This is true, active listening, and it disarms your counterpart. So, whether this is your partner, your friend, a family member or your child, when we are truly listening to what they want, it disarms them. It doesn't put us into fight or flight. It doesn't put us in a position where we're trying to be defensive and argue our position. We are being listened to, we are having a conversation and negotiating, for whatever it is.

Speaker 1: 9:58

Another interesting aspect of negotiation that I learned from this book is called mirroring, and mirroring is imitation, so we copy each other to comfort each other. The main goal of somebody who is in a negotiation is truly to connect with that other person. It's not just that you're trying to get what you want, but you're also trying to connect with that person and get them to feel comfortable and to feel seen and to feel heard, and this is exactly what you need to do with your child as well. So mirroring whether it's mirroring through speech patterns or body language or vocabulary So the body language is an interesting one, because you can do this with your toddler. So I would often get down to their level and, if they're on the floor, get on the floor. If they're sitting at a certain place, go meet them, get to their level, mimic and mirror what they're doing, the body language and the tone if they're concerned, and that makes them feel more comfortable.

Speaker 1: 11:03

What I found interesting was that he contrasted as well like old days, like a long time ago, and how they perceived emotions and their role in negotiations And there actually was no room for emotions in negotiations, whereas now, obviously, through all the research that we have, they've realized the importance of emotions and the role that they play in negotiation. There will always be emotions involved and we can't ignore them. We actually have to listen and that's how and why you empathize with the other person in a negotiation, including your child or your partner. So it's important that we remember that. They have a big role And he says emotions are one of the main things that derail communication.

Speaker 1: 11:44

When you're upset, rational thinking goes out the window, and this goes back to what I've explained about the brain. When we, whether we're a child or an adult, it just happens a lot more when we're a child, when we are very upset or dysregulated, then our brain isn't functioning the same way and that frontal part of your brain, the brain, that is the rational thinking that helps you question certain things and compare and say should I do this or should I do that, or should I not say this? That part of the brain isn't functioning. So similarly, in an argument or a big emotional event with your child, if you're emotional and they're emotional, both of you are not really accessing that frontal lobe. You have to be the one that kind of like, takes a deep breath, reminds your brain that it's safe, it's in an environment where nothing can happen in that moment. It's just your child is screaming or very upset and that's part of the co-regulation. You're trying to bring down your system so that you can help your child bring their system down as well and regulate it.

Speaker 1: 12:46

Going back to what that really good negotiator would look like, or that great negotiator he says a great negotiator will not ignore the other counterparts or the counterparts emotions. They identify them and they influence them. This is such a powerful sentence and the same thing for parents and this is what applies to parenting. If we have a child who is acting out, remember that most often, when a child has a really big behavior or behavior that's happening, very often that's disruptive, or they're just not listening and something changed in their behavior. You have to really think about what the underlying emotion is. And when we really address the underlying emotion, when we start to identify it, we can influence it and we can change it because we can give them the right coping tools. It's okay to feel frustrated and it's okay to feel angry, but it's not okay to hit your sister or your brother. That sort of language teaches them. That's the discipline. Disciplining is truly about teaching them what to do in that moment, and emotional coaching or guidance helps them know okay, that emotion is okay, but it's not okay to express it this way.

Speaker 1: 13:57

I cannot externalize it that way and if you've heard the episode that we have on emotion regulation skills, this is something I talk a lot about online and both here as well. But emotion regulation is both expressed internally. So how I'm feeling, what's the emotion I'm feeling inside? if it's frustration or anger or sadness or disappointment, i'm going to feel it inside and I'm going to express it and externalize it a certain way on the outside. That's what we are seeing. That's the Dr Mona Della Hook iceberg, right, that's the tip of the iceberg that we're seeing. We're seeing the externalization of an emotion. It comes out as behavior. Same thing for us.

Speaker 1: 14:36

If you're not feeling seen, for example, or you feel very frustrated with your partner and they said something and you feel shamed, your brain feels like it's not safe in that moment. And it's not because there's a bear or a physical threat around you. There's a threat to the self and that threat will lead to you lashing out, either at them, at somebody at work, at a family member, at your child That rage that so many people email me about, where they say, cindy, you know, i went from zero to 100 and I don't know where it came from. That's the emotional awareness part. That's the part where you had little micro moments, emotional moments that happened that you might not have been aware of, or needs that were not met, including mental health, including self care, and we lash out right. So being attuned to emotions, both in ourselves and with the person that we are having a discussion with, including our child, makes all the difference.

Speaker 1: 15:37

I enjoyed this line about empathy. So he says empathy is not about being nice or agreeing with the other side, it's about understanding them. Again, another one that I highlighted because it just brings me back to what the child needs in front of us When we talk about the research that says that we should be sensitive towards our child's emotions. You know some people especially all this positive parenting stuff. As you know, i'm not like super into that term, but I do believe in the research and that it shows that we have to be so warmth towards our children's emotions and sensitivity and be responsive towards their emotions. And being responsive means showing empathy.

Speaker 1: 16:17

And empathy is not just saying like, oh, you know, you're mad and I get it, you're mad and let's leave it at that. It's really understanding. Why are they mad? What's triggering that? Is it the transition from Graham and Grandpa's house to coming home? Is it leaving the park? Is it because you said no? All those things are really normal situations for a child to be upset about. But when we really understand them, we empathize with them and it doesn't mean that we're going to say, yes, sure, have that cookie before bedtime. It's not about that. It's just saying like, yeah, i know it sucks, but it's bedtime. But you know, let's, let's hug it out, or let's think about what tomorrow will bring, or let's read a story, some sort of little distraction to connect with them rather than disciplining them for feeling that emotion.

Speaker 1: 16:59

Dr Mark Brackett in his book Permission to Feel talks about the importance of labeling an emotion, and that's within ourselves. So just the act of saying in your mind I'm feeling frustrated right now, i'm feeling disappointed or I'm feeling shamed or I'm feeling sad or what, just the labeling aspect of it already starts the process of emotion regulation, already starts not the healing but the ability to cope or move past that emotion. And what I found interesting is that in this book of negotiation which I read for business, they bring up labeling and he says, validating someone's emotions by acknowledging them. You know, that gives someone's emotions a name and it shows them that you do identify with how they are feeling. It helps you get close to them. This is a shortcut to intimacy.

Speaker 1: 17:46

So think about your partner, think about your child In that moment where you're like oh, i know it's, it's frustrating when we have to leave the park. Wow, it's like that child feels seen similar to our partner. When they if and when they do say like I get that you're overwhelmed. Right now you have a lot on your plate. Doesn't that make us feel like a? you know, a ton of weight was taken off our shoulder. Nothing changed, and I've experienced this with my partner too. Nothing changed in that moment. There was a moment where I was feeling lots of big emotions and I was overwhelmed and confused, actually, with the emotions I was feeling. And he was like take a moment, i see, you know that what you went through this weekend was really tough And it's almost like it disappeared. It was amazing just to feel seen and heard and validated in that moment.

Speaker 1: 18:38

So the same applies for adults. If somebody does that to us, how good it feels. And when we do that with somebody as well, an adult or partner in our lives, how it kind of like disconnects them from that like feeling of anger or frustration or just validated helps so much. We need to think the same way for our children. I know that it's so easy for us to see the behavior and how the bad behavior can get in the way and how annoying it is and how frustrating it is as a parent if their child is acting a certain way. But I really really encourage you to think beyond that, to look beyond the behavior and to really understand the emotion and to try your best to connect with that emotion. The only thing is that it's very hard to empathize and to connect with somebody's emotions if we are not connected to ours or don't feel seen or validated ourselves. So it is important to start the work with us on your own, you know, like validating your own emotions, not feeling shamed for feeling sad or scared or worried or overwhelmed for whatever it is, knowing that it's okay to feel that way If, hopefully, you have a supportive partner that could validate that with you as well. But if you don't, then you do have to try to do this work on your own. And the more work you do on yourself, it becomes easier to connect with your child. It becomes easier to see their emotions and to kind of connect with them and to show empathy, because you've shown compassion and empathy for your own.

Speaker 1: 20:11

He says that a no in negotiations is pure gold. Now I know you're thinking back to the last time your child told you no and it didn't feel like pure gold. I think of like my kids and we had these Ikea cups and you know whoever invented like different colored cups and color-y and different colored socks. I don't like you. How could you do that? to us parents, everything should be just like one color, just one. So anyways, so the Ikea cups we had like I don't know whatever blue, red, yellow, green, and it was a constant, constant debate and argument between my three kids of like, who gets which color? You give them the right color that they asked for. They no longer want it, it's just, it's their cups, their cups. And they've brought me like into full on rage.

Speaker 1: 20:59

I'm telling you, but all this to say he says no is pure gold because it allows you to start asking questions to see like what the yes is. How do you get to a yes? So the same thing applies with your child. You know as hard as it could be in that moment. When they do say no, it doesn't end there. It means they want something else. But asking questions and with young children they might not know what they want. You know it and that's okay and just let them, you know, support them through that confusion of their brain and not understanding what they want. Because even in our in as adults, when there's times that I've experienced where I'm just confused and I don't know what I should choose for something, you know it's obviously not a cup, but it's like life decisions It becomes so overwhelming and hurts my brain. So I think about the same thing in a child, where just choosing a cup could be like so difficult.

Speaker 1: 21:52

I use my daughter as an example for like making decisions and how difficult it is. Once we were on vacation and it was pouring rain outside and I had bought at the dollar store like a bunch of different like punch holes, so I pulled them out I don't know what it could, whatever colors I had yellow, green, blue, red and I start giving them out. And then by the time I got to her there were two colors and she liked both. And here she was standing in the rain pouring pouring rain downpour, and she just couldn't choose between yellow and red. And she's like I don't know, i like them both and I was like just chose one. And I remember she we still laugh about that, but making decisions can be hard. Obviously it's different decisions for kids versus adults, but just try to empathize with them that way.

Speaker 1: 22:38

Chris goes on to talk about that. Everyone we meet is driven by two primal urges The need to feel safe and secure and the need to feel in control. Regardless of that, being an adult he's speaking of adults and I see the same thing in kids They are also driven by those two primal needs. Now think about what that looks like in toddlerhood or in preschoolers, right being in control. I want to put my shoes on, i want to put my jacket on, i want to pour my milk and all of those things we know lead to taking more time or milk all over the floor. I want to pour my cereal cereal all over the floor. We know that that leads there, but we do know that it's part of their primal urges.

Speaker 1: 23:19

All right, so I hope that this very small summary in terms of like what negotiation looks like within your home helped you understand your child a little bit better. So now you are a negotiation expert, you may go along and move on with your day and approach your child a little bit differently. So, through that lens of empathy and understanding of their emotions, and when you're trying to negotiate which t-shirt to wear, just try to listen. What is it? The texture, the color, the logo on it, the picture, whatever it is that they want. It's not about giving in, but it's trying to find a happy medium. But if, the more we listen, then we can actually offer them what makes sense and support them a little bit more. In these difficult years of toddlerhood or preschool years Even young children, you know sometimes it's hard to make decisions So, and negotiation gets even more and more when our kids become teenagers I'm assuming I was one myself once and negotiation with me wasn't very easy, but I know that if you do have a teenager. Just thinking about what I said today, i think it also applies to kids that are older, and it's about listening Again, even with our partners. We want them to listen to us and they want us to listen to them.

Speaker 1: 24:36

Thank you for listening to the Curious Neuron podcast. Please take a moment to subscribe to read the podcast on Apple Music or on Spotify. Leave a rating and send me an email at info at Curious Neuroncom. Let me know that you rated it, send me a screenshot and I will send you a free PDF with a coupon code as well for Curious Neuron Academy. Follow us on Instagram at Curious underscore neuron and don't forget if you want a coupon code or, sorry, a discount code for Poc Poc app, which is an app for kids, or better help, if you'd like some therapy online, or the WonderGrade app, if you want to help your kids with emotions. Check the show notes and click on the links below. Thank you, have a good week. Bye.