Why your own emotional intelligence matters as a parent with Genny Rumancik

Hang tight for a cozy chat that's like catching up with your parent BFF – we're spilling the beans on emotions and parenting with Jenny from EQ School. No fancy talk, just a laid-back convo packed with aha moments.

From decoding our emotions to setting real, self-care boundaries, we're giving you the inside scoop on the family feels. This isn't your typical podcast; it's your backstage pass to leveling up your connection game at home.

Emotional intelligence isn't just for suits – it's a game-changer for your living room, especially in the parenting chaos. Join us as we spill secrets on handling emotional triggers, squeezing in some self-reflection, and calling in backup when needed.

No cookie-cutter boundaries here – we're talking self-care magic that turns your family dynamic into a well-choreographed dance. Learn to speak your needs loud and clear while giving your emotional health a boost.

This episode is all about reflection – your golden ticket to expressing emotions and parenting with sanity. We're dishing tips on building your emotional vocab, navigating the ups and downs of raising emotionally aware kids, and why it's okay to let those emotions flow.

So, grab your drink of choice, kick back, and join us for a chat that's all about beefing up your emotional IQ and becoming the parent rockstar you were born to be. Let's do this! 

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Chapters

• 0:01 Exploring Emotional Awareness and Growth
• 6:49 The Journey to Emotional Intelligence
• 15:49 Learning to Sit With Emotions
• 19:34 Setting Boundaries and Understanding Triggers
• 31:17 Navigating Tenuous Conversations and Parenting Challenges
• 36:48 Parenting With Self Awareness and Reflection
• 40:47 Supporting Children's Emotional Development

Transcript

Genny: 0:01

So if we learn to sit with it and we learn how to let a feeling move through our body and move through their body, then we learn that feelings are okay.

Cindy: 0:17

Hello, my dear friend, welcome back to another episode of the Curious Neuron Podcast. My name is Cindy Hevington and I am your host. Today I'd like to have the conversation around what it means to have this emotional awareness, or how do you begin your journey if you've sort of noticed you need to work on your emotions, but you're not quite sure where to begin. I've been having this conversation with so many parents lately that I realized I needed to have this conversation on the podcast. I am bringing in somebody that I've been talking with online for a little while now. Jenny is the founder of EQ School, and I'm going to share everything with you, and she will share her program. Everything you need to know about her is also in the show notes.

Cindy: 0:58

Before I begin, I do want to thank the Tenenbaum Open Science Institute for supporting the Curious Neuron Podcast. Without them, this podcast would not be possible, and this podcast would not be possible without you. So thank you for listening to the podcast and for being here. If you haven't done so yet, I encourage you to take a moment to click out of the podcast episode to rate it or leave a review, or at least to subscribe to it, because every single person that subscribes to it downloads through the podcast episodes. There are algorithms that are looking for this and this boosts our metrics, and the funding that we receive has to do with how well the podcast is doing. If nobody's listening, we won't get the funding and it won't continue, so it's important for them to know that you're there and that you exist. So the downloads, the subscriptions to the podcast, the comments and the reviews and the ratings all of that matters, so please take a moment to do so. And also, if you're not doing so yet, you can follow us on Instagram at Curious Underscore Neuron, and you can follow us on Facebook as well, and we have a website, curiousneuroncom. We have articles there that graduate students write, and we have the Curious Neuron Academy, where you could buy some PDF toolkits that you might need, some workshops that we had around emotions.

Cindy: 2:15

One of the popular toolkits that we have is called Meltdown Mountain, and if you do leave a rating and review, send me a screenshot of it. I will give you this Meltdown Mountain PDF that has this visual that you could print to help your child understand their emotions. I'll give it to you for free as a thanks. So please take a moment to do so and, as always, our partners and collaborators and sponsors are all in the show notes, including Poc. Poc, which is an award-winning app that is open-ended, easy for kids to learn, nothing, with beeps and sounds and good jobs that impact child's motivation skills. It's just so simple and one of my kids' favorite apps the first app they ever used. You can get 50% off your one-year subscription in the show notes if you click the link there, and you can also get 15% off your first month with better help. They help you get the therapy that you need, but from home. You don't have to leave your home, and a lot of parents struggle with leaving their home. I'm just blown away by the emails I'm receiving from parents, really having realized the importance of starting the work and needing a bit of support through therapy. So I'm glad that you guys are taking this opportunity and using the discount to give it a try and that you're sending me an email to let me know that it's going well.

Cindy: 3:30

I've also now partnered with Holsty and if you are somebody who's looking to reflect on their life and it's not just about emotions but it's about motivation and gratitude and all of that stuff you can follow Holsty. The link is in the show notes as well, and they have a membership. They have products as well. I have them right in front of me Reflection cards, and what you can do is use one of these every day if you want a journal but you're not sure quite where to begin. They also have this partnership with the Greater Good Science Center and they have this kit, which is science-based practices for meaningful life. So if you want an easy way to start the work, just with cards or just with a membership, where you can meet with people that are doing the work as well, you can join Holsty. The links to all of these are in the show notes.

Cindy: 4:17

All right, so before we speak with our guest Jenny, I just want to introduce you to her. So Jenny Rumansik has spent the last 15 years enthralled in personal development work across the globe, while also navigating her own unique career journey within the tech, advertising and nonprofit worlds. She former educator and strategist with two master's degree, jenny combines her extensive leadership background and her favorite tools to help each of her workshop participants grow and thrive. She is passionate about increasing the importance and fluency of emotional intelligence in our society and has created a space for people to gather, learn and connect in a supportive community. So, without keeping you waiting too much longer, please enjoy my conversation with Jenny.

Cindy: 5:01

Hi, jenny, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. You are one of the people that I follow that I have said for a while. We need to talk. We know we cover very similar material, but what I love about the work that you do is, whether it's your newsletter or your Instagram account, it's always a content that will make me stop and reflect and really think about how am I doing things in my own life and how am I perceiving certain emotions and situations, and I love that about your work. So thank you for the work that you do.

Genny: 5:36

Oh, thank you so much. I'm so glad it resonates and it's wonderful to hear from you, because I feel similarly about your work. I'm reading things like yes, all parents need this kind of education, so we're on the same page.

Cindy: 5:46

Right, you know I was having this conversation with a mom this past week, actually a person who is about to become a mom and she was talking about, you know, she had seen some therapists and it didn't work out the way that she wanted to. She's struggling with emotions. She came from an environment and a childhood that you know emotions. She was told to like, brush it off and just stop being a baby. So she never learned all the tools and she was talking about how now, reading you know, certain accounts and information online. They talk about sitting with your emotions and being comfortable with them and she's like what does that mean? And you know, understandably. So we talk about like what's out there, but we need more information.

Cindy: 6:28

So I want to have this conversation with you today about what that awareness is, the emotional availability you know, thinking about not only that in ourselves, but how we do that with others around us, because that really is important, you know, in terms of that relationship that we have with our partner and how we're modeling that with our kids. So first, before we dive in, let's get to know you a little bit more. How did you end up or how did?

Genny: 6:51

what's the journey that brought you to the EQ school, yeah well, it's been a long journey, I guess, as most things are. I would say, like two important pieces. One is I grew up in a family that did not know what to do with big feelings. It did not know how to have conversations or communicate or be in conflict, and I am the one who had like the biggest, deepest feelings, so there was like my parents didn't really know what to do with me. So there's like that piece that is like it's been inevitable. This is going to have been a journey for me in some way.

Genny: 7:28

And then, as far as my career trajectories, when I started out as an educator, I worked in tech for a while. I worked in design and strategy and I actually went to a graduate program that focused on design leadership and when I went into that program I kind of thought I was going to end up learning a little bit more about like hard design skills and that process. But there was so much in that work that was like to do really good creative work, you have to know yourself and you have to know the lenses that you're bringing to your projects and to the people that you're working with. They also encouraged us to work with people who were very different from us. So in my cohort of 60 people, we were from like 25 different countries. So there was like work with people who, like you, can't stand, because that's actually in the people that you like butt heads with, because that's where you're going to learn the most. And I think we were able to solve these tools for communicating or like noticing what is at the root of your thing. And every time we have those conversations which we were forced to have these like they were called team development sessions every two weeks On the other side, we would have a massive breakthrough with our whatever project we were working on together.

Genny: 8:35

And so I felt like I grew up a lot in that year because I learned a lot about, like, how I was perceived.

Genny: 8:41

I was like had to tell people like how I was feeling, and there was a lot in that program of like If it's bothering you, it's worth talking about, because you guys need to navigate it in order to be able to focus on the work.

Genny: 8:52

You gotta get this thing out of the way. And I was like whoa, what a different message than what you were talking about is that there's a lot of us who have been taught like oh, stop being a baby or, like you know, be logical, be rational, focus on that piece. So to bring both of those things together. That was such a big like moment for me of like, oh, like, we actually do better work, we actually have such healthier relationships when we can bring a logic and emotion together and use both of them and figure out the dance between them. And so leaving that program. I used to joke that it kind of ruined me for like working in normal companies after the logic because I would come in and be like wanting to have these conversations and would find a lot of resistance and a lot of people were like why are we what?

Cindy: 9:40

Emotions you can't mix. What is the sentence? I've heard this before like you can't mix business and emotions or something like that. Right, Like it shouldn't be there, right?

Genny: 9:50

Leave a feeling to the door. Yeah, that's it, that kind of thing. And so then you know it took, it took, I don't know, at least what was it Like five or five years after that program that I finally started the EQ school, which was wanting to help individuals work on developing their emotional intelligence. So through the lens of starting with self-awareness, so being present to your own past, your own present, your own feelings, what's going on within you, putting space between who you are as a person and then how you think, feel and behave, you know. So we can start to use those, use our feelings, use our thoughts like use our behaviors as information. You know, kind of get curious about them and what's going on here that's making this come up, and then we can move into the emotional self-management, then we can move into, like, bettering our relationships.

Genny: 10:41

But yeah, so, that's how that all got started.

Cindy: 10:45

I love that, I'm so happy I asked you because you know, I think that kind of pains or gets this conversation started, because when I think of a lot of parents and their struggles, the struggles that they're having a lot of, it has to do with their own emotional awareness, like parents who tell me you know, I yell a lot and I'm often going from zero to 100. And to me, when I hear that it's not that it's going from, it could be quick, but sometimes it's that we're not aware of what's going on in between that and we're not aware of that. One to 99, right, like there's a lot that goes into that. And I also find that as a society, especially as parents, we're always looking for the right recipe. We're looking for we think it's going to be as easy as, like, I need to cook a chicken dinner tonight, let me look it up online. Or I need to find a certain restaurant, I'm going to look it up online and get the instructions and it's done.

Cindy: 11:30

But when it comes to searching, like, how do I stop yelling? It's not as easy as a recipe and it takes time and, as you said, there's a reflection part to it and there's a discovery, self discovery part to it, and the more you get to know yourself, the easier it is to have, you know, these hard discussions with your partner or these really big emotional moments with your kids. So, that being said, knowing that there isn't a recipe, how does a parent begin If they know that they've been struggling, if they know that they were never taught that? Similarly, in my case, I was never taught what to do with my emotions and I also had to kind of nurture the emotions of my mother, who was a single mother, struggling and really needed somebody to be there for her, so that I had to bring that to my adult life. But where does a parent begin the work when it comes to their emotions?

Genny: 12:22

Yeah, I think paying attention to patterns can be one of the most important place to start. It's like where are the moments that I noticed that I lose my cool? Where are the moments that I shut down? Starting to like, notice and just pay attention is such a big part of this work, is just like starting with presence. I also have a mentor and a teacher who I learned from and she often says that there are so many of us who walk around just like a few inches away from our bodies, like we're so in our heads about things that we're not actually in touch with, like what's happening and the signals that we're getting in our bodies. So, as we pay attention to these patterns like the pausing and also just being present, to like what your body is doing too, is really important information, because the more that we see the patterns, the more we see the patterns like, the more we see like when certain things are going to start coming up for us and the more we see like what are some of these moments where I feel more deeply triggered or where are some of these moments where I do really struggle, then we wanna start to insert curiosity, you know, and start to pay attention there because there's a reason. There's a reason, like our feelings and I, when we get triggered into like a difficult place, there's a reason.

Genny: 13:37

Our body is communicating something important to us. So it can be that there's perhaps something unresolved there that needs to be looked at. You know, there could be some shame, there could be some trauma, so that can lead us down a direction where we start to work on some of those things. But it can also even just noticing like, ah, I need some better boundaries around this certain thing or I need some support with this certain thing, is really helpful. But just even starting to like be present to when those feelings come up and not shaming ourselves for it Cause that's, I think, what a lot of us do too it's like, oh, I'm bad for getting angry. And I think a lot of people who are trying to improve their emotional intelligence or trying to like go back and go to therapy or trying to work on themselves, that are like trying to get to this place where we're happy more at the time, and that's not the goal necessarily.

Genny: 14:23

The goal is to learn how to be present to the signals that our feelings are giving us and to learn how to be with them and move through them and to, like, use it as information about where our boundaries are or like where we feel like we need to connect more deeply or we need to be heard. You know, it's like those are our feelings, are signals. So our goal is to just be in relationship with those signals and to learn how to kind of sit with them and be with them.

Cindy: 14:48

I agree. I think that is the best first step. I also think that it's a very difficult first step, right, because you have to that awareness piece. You could notice, sure, okay, my child triggers me when this happens and I've noticed it's happening very often. But I think just that stopping piece and just being aware of that and saying, like now, what it's so hard for some parents because, like you said, I think that negative self-talk especially if we came from this sort of environment where there are good and bad emotions right, Like it's hard because you naturally think that you're doing something bad because you're anxious about something, because you're angry, but it's okay. I think all those emotions are really important, especially with some parents, or moms and dads might experience emotions differently or might have a different awareness to that. So it's not an easy piece, but it is the first part.

Cindy: 15:40

I agree with you. I do think it has to start with that You've spoken about, like allowing ourselves to feel and I think a lot of parents hear that as well like sit with an emotion. What does that mean?

Genny: 15:51

I had when I was talking to this mom.

Cindy: 15:52

She was like what does it mean to sit with an emotion?

Genny: 15:56

Yeah, well, and what's interesting back to that idea of like us being disconnected from our bodies, is that we have a tendency to sink through emotions. We might notice that we're angry and then we immediately go into the story about whatever is happening. So I think, when we say, to learn how to sit with your feeling might be to quiet the story and actually just sit with the sensation of the tension or the anger or the big swell of anxiety or the pit in your stomach of sadness that comes up, and not making yourself wrong for that being there. That piece is really hard and takes a lot of practice because there's a lot of like I feel angry. I shouldn't feel angry. I feel sad or disconnected. I shouldn't feel this way. And so we wanna try to pause the shouldn't and the whatever the story is, try to quiet the chatter of the mind and to notice and what it's like. I could feel everything in my body tense, and that's okay. Like, can I sit with the energy swell that's coming up within me? Right, quiet, this story.

Cindy: 16:58

Yeah, I've also seen some people within my surrounding where they'll apologize for being sad, right, they start crying and they're like I'm so sorry, like I shouldn't be crying, and my response to them usually is but you have a reason to cry, it's okay to cry, but there's that shame for some people of you know I shouldn't be crying, I don't look, I'm looking very weak right now because I'm crying and it's okay. I think part of the awareness is also a lot of unlearning, right. Like they're going to have a lot of that inner dialogue where you'll have to talk to yourself and remind yourself like this is okay, I'm safe, I'm okay. The crying is important, you know, like. Or the anger too. Um, just today actually, I had this moment with my child and we'll get to the kids after, but I don't want to forget this moment.

Cindy: 17:40

I've been struggling with my six year old for the. You know there's always ups and downs. There's good periods and now we're in a period where there's a bit more stress with school and all that and the end of the. You know we're at the, we're near the holidays, there's excitement as well and we had a couple of days where he was really struggling and having really big emotions and acting the way that we were trying to tell him you can't be rude, you're allowed to be angry, but you don't have to say things that are rude or mean to your sister or to us. And today I said, when he was calm, I said what can I do to help you in those moments when you're really angry? I can see that your body gets angry, I can see through your words. And he said something that blew me away. He said can you let me be angry? And I was like what? I started sobbing. I loved the beauty of can you let me be angry, because now he showed me when he's angry and storms upstairs, I go upstairs to comfort him and I try to make the anger go away. And I didn't realize I was doing it. And he said let me be angry. And I was like that makes sense. We need that too, right? We need those moments, and so I'm bringing that up because the more we learn it as a parent, we're going to start modeling this for our kids, right, if we can sit in our emotions.

Cindy: 18:48

I've said this to my kids where I'm feeling overwhelmed, and I'll say it out loud I'm overwhelmed right now because I've said this online, that word because we, because we easily say I'm stressed and I try not to say the word stressed Right, stressed. What does it mean? Are you overwhelmed, are you anxious, are you frustrated about something you know, whatever it is? Use different emotions if you can, but then you're labeling it, but then you have to find a way to move past it somehow, but it might not be right away. So now you've spoken about that sort of piece of the awareness and now somebody is kind of becoming more aware of these patterns that they're seeing. And maybe now they're at the step where they've labeled it, they understand what's going on, but they don't have the right tools. What would be sort of the next step for a parent?

Genny: 19:39

Well, this is where I think it kind of a lot of it will be, kind of delving into our own history, because we are going to have different reactions to different circumstances within the world. Our children are going to trigger us in, like when we see things about that we reject in ourselves, in our children. Yes, it's going to bring up feelings for us. You know, if we weren't allowed to feel certain ways or to do certain things, or if we are ashamed of our big tears, then we have, you know, a deeply sensitive child. Like that might bring something up in us. So I think part of the next step could be perhaps getting some outside help with processing what some, because it can be really hard to tease apart what some of those patterns are, or like the patterns that we might not be able to recognize sometimes.

Genny: 20:28

With outside helps, I think it's looking into our history and noticing like where do we have, where do we have pain? Where do we have? What do we have trouble accessing within ourselves, I know, like within my family and my mom is okay with me sharing this, but she was always very even keeled until she wasn't. There'd always be a moment where she snapped and we were like whoa, and now she's been doing a lot of work on herself and she's like it's not necessarily that she just had no boundaries and just kind of let everyone do everything. So it's not that she was the most easygoing person on the planet, it was just that she didn't believe she was worthy of having boundaries, of having a being you know seen and taken care of. So I think we all have different things that trigger us or different you know, parts of our history that kind of show up, that our body is letting us know this thing like needs to be looked at or needs to be kind of taken care of.

Cindy: 21:22

That boundaries piece is so important because even for myself, I think it was only four-ish years ago so the mid-30s to my late 30s that I realized I had never learned how to set a boundary and those boundaries make a huge difference. But they're also uncomfortable because you notice the other person won't like it and it could be a boundary with your kids, with your partner, with family members, and even when I express you know certain boundaries with a family member, they don't like it and that makes you uncomfortable and it's easy to cave in and say like, okay, forget it, forget that. I just said that you know like or not set that boundary. Do you have any advice for somebody who realizes that they need to set that boundary? But number one, maybe they don't know how or it makes them really. Number two, it makes them feel like really uncomfortable.

Genny: 22:05

Well, one thing that you were saying it made me think of kind of the social contracts and familial contracts that we have that we learned like a lot of this way of coming back to like early attachment, stuff of like who I needed to be in order to be loved and who I needed to be in order to stay connected. So you know, there's a lot of you have to be a good little girl, you have to be a good little boy. So if you express anger, if you don't like something like, we've been shamed for that in many different ways. You know in the school system, you know at home. So as an adult, there can be a lot of like.

Genny: 22:37

If I go to say something that still lives in my body, that if I say how I actually feel or if I ask for what I actually need, that thread of connection which at one point kind of was like our death you know our early attachments we do different in our caregivers for survival like that can still live in our body. So boundaries are something if people have never had them can be truly a really scary thing to navigate because your body is sending you these signals of like. But if I say what I need, then people are going to go away from me you know or?

Genny: 23:08

I'm no longer going to be accepted in this group, so I just want to like speak to that. So, but to start to figure out boundaries is to one kind of recognize that social contract as not being true, so bringing some awareness to that. And then also we really have to kind of take a step back and start to get in touch with what actually does feel good to us, like what are the things that I value, what are the things that bring me energy, what are the things that make me feel like me? And then I start to like hold space for those things. So I also like to think of boundaries. It's not about you, it's not about telling you what you can't do. It's about me letting you know what I need to feel like the best version of myself or to feel just stay whole.

Genny: 23:55

And I think a lot of the kind of rhetoric around boundaries out there is.

Genny: 23:58

It sounds often like we're drawing a hard line in the sand and telling someone no, and that can be one function of boundaries. But you know, I think it also comes off better when it's like hey, this is. And it can also be scarier when it's like this is, this is something that I need. It's more vulnerable to share that with people. But I also think that we all do hold boundaries, but it's easier to hold boundaries around the things that we know other people are going to accept. You know, like there's many of us, it's like I have to leave early because I have to go to bed, because I have to work in the morning, like that's a boundary that's holding space for my sleep so that I can show up, you know, at work with energy, and it's easier to say those types of things than it is the things that we might, that other people might not understand or that other people might not have the same kind of understanding around. That's when it feels really scary and like it might disconnect us.

Cindy: 24:48

Yeah, like around holidays, I would say right, like a lot of people feel, or a lot of parents experience, a lot of stress around the holidays because you're around people that might judge how your parenting, might judge you or your child and I've heard this a lot. So some parents want to or wish they could sort of set a boundary of not going somewhere or not being around a certain person around the holidays. But you can't always do that and it's very difficult. You might be judged for that. You might be challenged in terms of like, why would you not come to a family event? But sometimes you need it for your mental health and sometimes those boundaries are hard or to make.

Genny: 25:24

And one piece of advice that I was given by a mentor a long time ago that I love. In those situations where it's like I'm gonna go, I might be going into, you know, the line's done in some way shape or form, is that to kind of like draw a line and when someone disagrees with your boundary or your issue, to kind of like think about is this their thing, Is this their like problem or is it mine? And sometimes that can be easier because it's like, if they're having a reaction or an issue, like I'm gonna let them be responsible for their feelings about that. I don't have to explain away why I've made the decision. I don't have to fix it. I don't have to make everybody understand exactly what's going on within me. So like, is this mine? Do I have a responsibility? You know, did I promise something that I'm not falling through on? Or, like you know, is this theirs? And like I can, let them be an adult who they can navigate their response to, whatever my decision is.

Cindy: 26:18

That's such good advice because I think, especially when a parent is getting criticized or judged according to how their parenting their child, especially around emotions, right, that happens very often where I hear parents say, well, I'm following what I'm learning and I'm supporting my child's emotions, but the outside world family is seeing me as being lenient on my child's behavior because I'm nurturing their emotions. So I think the way that you've just said that allows the parent to gain a bit of that power in themselves to say like this is their issue, this is their thing, I'm doing what feels good to me and you have to kind of let it go in a sense or just realize, like you said, that that's their issue, not yours. You know you can stay confident with what you're doing with your child, but it's not always easy.

Genny: 27:02

And I think the other thing too as I've talked to a few people who are working on boundaries right now is to remember that like it's one moment in time and that, like the first time someone is introduced to your boundary, they might struggle in a big way, but the second time might be a little different, you know. Or the third time, like as they see it working for you, it might change over time. So just for us to remember, like just because they struggled with it in this moment doesn't mean that that's what that relationship is now forever too. Yeah.

Cindy: 27:36

What happens when you know I've heard this before where one parent is trying to do some of the work on their emotions and the other parent might not be there yet, they might not be ready to, they might not have the insight to want to, wherever they are in their journey. There was a quote that I saw on your Instagram page and it said meet people where they are not where you want them to be. And it made me think of that, because it's a challenge that a lot of parents bring up. What can you follow up on that, what you meant on that quote, and how does that tie into, let's say, a couple and them being on different journeys for their emotional learning and discovery?

Genny: 28:11

Yeah, well, one thing that we talk about in my workshops is how important it is to respect that each person knows themselves better than anyone else. Like, even if they're not very self aware, they still know themselves better than we know them, and we know where our comfort zone is, we know what a good stretch feels like and then we know when something feels really dangerous and off to us. And it's important. Part of developing self awareness in ourselves is to start to recognize, like, where the kind of lines are between those spaces and also the comfort zone gets a bad rap. I think it's important because that's where we get energy to stretch, so it's important. We actually often come back to our comfort zone.

Genny: 28:51

But when we start to learn that we recognize if we get pushed too far out of our stretch zone, we can actually be traumatized. If we go into the danger zone, like if we try something and we don't have the resources to cope with the feelings that come up, we don't have the support then whatever that thing is or the person who pushed us into that space, can be dangerous and we're gonna like, snap so hard back into the comfort zone, we're not gonna touch that. So I think, when it comes to having your partner and working toward if you're working on yourself when we have to trust that they know themselves best and to trust that they will come to it when they're ready, kind of a thing and to focus more on ourselves within that space and what is working for us and we can communicate our boundaries and our needs. But it's a really difficult. It can be a very difficult process, but remembering that if we try to push someone beyond what is comfortable for them, we can actually do more damage to the relationship.

Cindy: 29:52

Right, and so how do you have the conversation with your partner? Because right? Because sometimes there's also I've seen resistance within a couple when one's doing the work as well and is trying to parent their child in a way where emotions have a bigger space and there's more conversations around emotion. Especially if one of the parents came from a background where emotions were pushed to the side and perhaps even shamed, it might be difficult for that one parent to accept the way the other parent is doing it, especially when there's such a high value and importance placed on emotions. How can you have a conversation with a partner accepting that they know what they need or like wherever they are in their journey and, like you said, appreciating that but also making sure that you it's not a boundary, I guess, but it's it's you show them the importance of, of, or why you think it's so important for you to do it that way? Do you have any advice of how we can have that conversation with our partner?

Genny: 30:49

Well, I love that you used the word conversation, because the word conversation also means that we are not just telling them, it means that we are listening.

Cindy: 30:57

Yes.

Genny: 30:58

So I think that is what the important part of those conversations is not just coming in and being like I know better now and this is what we're doing now, like that's not going to work.

Genny: 31:09

There may be, there may be truth in that, there may be some truth in that, like, yes, like there are you know science, facts and we know that this will actually be helpful. But for the other parent it might feel like a threat. There's a very real response that they're having to something that is very different and they don't understand and they might feel insecure about it, and they might. So I think approaching those types of tenuous conversations with curiosity and being like what do you think? Where you know, where does this feel uncomfortable for you? You know what is this bringing up for you? And creating space for them to actually share how they feel about it, can be helpful, because I think when we push people into a space where they start to feel defensive, well then the walls go up and the actual conversation goes away. So I think it's the whole thing of like, whenever we want to change somebody's mind, ask to understand theirs first, because you're going to make yourself safer, to actually have a conversation with.

Cindy: 32:05

It's just about understanding, exactly like it's even the way that I tell my kids in terms of when they're having big emotions, I don't know what they're thinking. So they need to tell me what they're thinking and how they're feeling so that I can support them right. We're there to help them. And I think it's the same thing with our partners, where we sometimes and I think I've had this discussion about having an argument but we want to get our point across. But part of getting your point across is also understanding the person and where they're coming from. That perspective taking. Right, there's cognitive perspective taking and also emotional perspective taking. So we have to make sure that we know what they're thinking and what they're feeling in that moment. And I love that you're bringing up that curiosity part, because it fits anywhere. It fits anywhere and everywhere. We have to get curious and compassionate and try to see where that person's coming from. So I think that's an important piece.

Genny: 32:56

And it's the piece that why I got the window when we feel activated.

Cindy: 32:59

Exactly, yeah we forget about it very quickly.

Cindy: 33:04

Yeah, I know, yeah, but it is so important and I think again we're thinking about our kids being there and our kids understanding that arguments are normal and it's part of having a social life and a partner. But also to do it in a way that's respectful and to do it in a way where we each have a voice is so important for us to model. There's another sort of side to this where I think of the parent who struggles with people pleasing, or who often internalizes or doesn't really say what they want to say. So we've spoken about the parent who struggles with yelling, but there's the other parent, too, who might let their children do more than they should because they struggle with setting that boundary. They struggle with saying what they are feeling, or they've never been given that space to say what they really want to say. But now they're in this relationship and they have a child. Would you have some advice for somebody who has acknowledged that they are a people pleaser but they don't know how to break that and work on that on their own?

Genny: 34:08

I think with people pleasing, one of the pieces of advice I gave is to pause a lot. It's again coming back to your body and noticing. But it can be hard for those of us who, in the presence of someone else, you lose your sense of self, that you don't even notice you're having a reaction. So the pause of like, even sometimes stepping away, to kind of come back to what do I actually feel or think about the situation. But I also think, I think, especially in families and with parents, I think having conversations about I call it a point of departure, so this like a conversation about what we want to happen when we're not in an emotional space.

Genny: 34:50

So and I think this can be great with slightly older children, even little children too, where they can actually be a part of this conversation around we have a point of departure which is our jumping off point around what does it look like to clean up our toys or to like what do we want the responsibilities in the house to look like? And so we all kind of come together and we decide what does that look like, who's responsible for what? And then what are our consequences If what happens if we don't actually follow through on this group contract together. Sometimes those things can be helpful because we're like making it safe for people to have opinions and to share and to co-create, and when we have a say in what we're creating, it makes it easier to kind of stand or stay with that agreement too. But yeah, it's a difficult thing to navigate.

Cindy: 35:40

Yeah, I agree, and I'm bringing all these types of situations up because I know as a parent like these parents are, and this is what's so hard. Right, you become a parent and you think about, okay, do I know how to change a diaper? Do I will I be okay with feeding my child, whichever form? But there's so much more to that that we don't hear about and I, you know, part of the work that I do and the work you're doing is just trying to get that awareness out in terms of that importance, the importance of the emotions piece right, and I'll never forget, like even as somebody who had studied emotions, you end up with your child and they're having big emotions and then everything comes like flooding in and you're like, wow, I have no idea. I know about co-regulation, so I came into this saying I know what to do, but then it's happening and now I'm realizing that in my past and all my own struggles and all of this is coming, you know, back and I don't even know how to help you with your emotions, because I'm realizing now, in this moment, I don't even know how to control mine. So I really do think that it's important for parents to start the reflection pieces as early as possible, which brings me into the next sort of conversation around the work.

Cindy: 36:48

You talked about being curious and kind of observing and finding. You know, where are there certain patterns? Parents will often tell me that the reflection piece is very difficult for them, right? We even journaling. I've spoken about journaling and how important it is and you know, when you were journaling and you were a teenager, it was about what happened in your day. But now, as an adult, it's like how are you feeling today? And that's very hard to answer, especially when our vocabulary around emotions is very limited. So we might have an experience and think we're mad, but there's a lot more to it than just being mad. Where do we begin if we want to start this work? And now we're on this journey and we want to reflect on the moments that we're having, but we don't really have the words to accompany that experience that we had. How do we start those that like reflection piece?

Genny: 37:39

to it. Yeah, one of the most simple reflections I have that I also feel like is kind of a like changing reflection, is just like what happened. How did it make me feel? What would I want to happen differently next time? A lot can come out of those three questions of like what just happened there. So, which is a different question than like what you were just talking about in terms of going back into our family histories and looking at those things. This reflection, though, is kind of a daily like what happened. This is part of the developing self awareness piece of like what happened.

Genny: 38:13

How did that make me feel and I believe it or not pretty liberal about language, with feelings, especially in the beginning developing self awareness space of like. You know, I don't feel like you need to have the perfect language around it. I also feel like different communities. There's different ways that we socialize, that use different language to describe different things. There's a lot, you know, I think, to be said there, but I think even just like, how did that land with me? What did that make me feel? That's a really good place to start, to start noticing patterns, and I do think, you know, as you were saying, there's especially like the people pleasing.

Genny: 38:48

What was coming up for me in that is like especially people pleasing with our own children, which is like what we're afraid of is that our children will take away our love, their love for us, if we, you know, don't give them what they want or that they will.

Genny: 38:59

You know, I'm having a hard feeling means that I'm a bad mom or something like that, and you know, I think an important piece is that the love is supposed to flow downward in parenting. It doesn't like, of course, we want to be low by our children and we will, but the piece is that many people have learned that they had to parent their parents or that they had to give to their parents in order to receive. And I think for people pleasers learning that it's like you know you are giving to your child in a way that you have to hold boundaries and you have to hold that space for them and yeah, so a lot of that will be going back into our kind of our own childhood and looking at what some of those patterns are and getting some. I think outside help is helpful in seeing a lot of that.

Cindy: 39:46

I think sometimes a parent feels you know, this is a conversation I've had with dads where they feel, yeah, my past was okay, nothing bad happened. Why do I need to look back into my childhood? Why do I have to do that, that kind of work? If I had good parents, I had a good childhood and I think that was fine, I am okay today. You know, like, can you speak a little bit more to that piece?

Cindy: 40:13

And once I had a conversation with he wasn't a dad yet, but a friend of mine who said he had a really good childhood and he said I have no issues with my emotions. And then we started speaking about it and then he realized that his parents would sort of comfort him during the uncomfortable emotions and push them away very quickly. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. But I think sometimes you also have a very good upbringing but we weren't given the tools, the tools that you and I are talking about. We weren't offered those tools. So it's not necessarily only a traumatic or, you know, having childhood adversities. I think there's also. We need to speak of the piece of having a very good childhood but still taking the time to look back into that past? Have you encountered that as well? Like people who feel that everything was fine, I don't think I need to do that.

Genny: 41:00

Like look back Well yeah, I guess I feel like there does have to be intrinsic motivation for stepping into this work. I feel like if you don't want to do it, then it's not going to stick or land for you.

Genny: 41:13

I think that oftentimes, we come to it when we feel like there's a reason to come to it and there's something that we're working toward. I do think I mean this is where, like, I'm on the board of a nonprofit that teaches social, emotional learning to children starting, you know, in like second grade, and I think that it is important to learn skills because there's just so much more information now than there used to be, you know, when we were being, when we were being parented. But I also think, like, yeah, I tend to not push people toward work that they're not drawn to or that they're not, like, interested or ready for yet either.

Cindy: 41:49

So, and that's um, Well, that's a good point, I think, as because, again, knowing that there are partners listening to this and they're having the conversation within their homes, I think it's important that we say that because we don't have to all do the work, Right, Okay, if nothing happened and your partner's doing the work, you don't have to. But just being aware of how, and then this maybe is a good transition into you know, now we're parents and we have kids, but being aware of what you kind of implement within your home when it comes to emotions and how you're supporting your child, those emotions, let's, let's move into that in terms of children. Now you know, as parents, especially if we feel that we don't have the tools. So somebody who's listening to this conversation and they say, great, I need to start the work, but I also have a child in front of me who's having very big emotions.

Cindy: 42:39

So what do I do tomorrow? I need to start the work and I'm going to, but I don't know how to support my child and I tend to lose it very quickly. How do I make sure that I'm offering my child these strong you know emotional coping skills? But it might take me a year or a couple months to start the work and to get some of that work going at. What can a parent do to support their child?

Genny: 43:00

So I think, first create, just cultivate, an environment that feels safe for feelings to exist, so we might not know what to do with them, but even to be like it's okay that you feel that way, it's okay that I feel this way, you know. I think that that is a number one important thing, because there's so many of us who grew up with feelings being big and scary or just like, yeah, that there was no, no conversations, there's no acknowledgement, you know, there's no like. You know, I have a big feeling, it's I'm going to go and time out, kind of thing. So like staying connected with our child. So even if that's just sitting next to them and saying, yeah, it's okay to feel that way and breathing with them, could be a place to start.

Genny: 43:42

There's also, I think, a fear for many people that a big feeling, if we allow it to happen, it's never going to end or it's going to create this pattern where you know we're spoiling them or something like that. Yes, and the reality is it's, it's a catharsis. We had need to feel the emotions so it can move through us. And so if we learn to sit with it and we learn how to let a feeling move through our body and move through their body, then we learn that feelings are okay, you know, and that and that it will move is if we acknowledge it and are with it, so keeping everybody physically safe, you know. So we're not hurting each other with emotions, but also just like emotionally safe, but it's okay to feel what we feel.

Cindy: 44:21

Yeah, I do think that's where I would start.

Cindy: 44:23

Yeah, yeah, it makes a lot of sense because, you know, even if you're going to do the work to change things in your home, at least that one piece of it's okay to feel anything in this home. Again, as long as it's safe and it's safe for you and the people around you and you're respectful, it's, any emotion is okay, and not labeling them as a good or bad emotion and not trying to push anything to the side. You know, I for myself, sometimes, when I have to think about what it means to sit and I have to remind myself of this because we naturally push certain emotions away but it's almost like somebody knocks at your door. You're going to answer the front door like that's the emotion that's coming in, and then, once it comes in, you'll greet it and like hi, hi, anxiety or hi anger, and welcome. But then you don't want to necessarily keep it in your home for a long time.

Cindy: 45:10

You want to find ways to acknowledge it and, like you said before, right, like that's the sitting piece with it, just saying it, knowing that it exists and that it's there and being aware of the sensations that you're feeling within your body, which most of us are not either. Right, like it's hard for us to be attuned to that because we haven't been taught to do so, but then finding ways to manage it and say thank you for coming and now you could leave my home right like there's a, there's like a journey of that emotion. That might take time and that's okay. Yeah, it does take time. We unfortunately have to come to an end. But, given the work that you've done and the people that you've spoken with through your workshops, what are some things that you wish all parents would know? You know, or or things that you've seen in terms of patterns that parents are repeating, that you just wish they were aware of. That would make a big difference in the emotional climate of their home and the emotional intelligence piece you know within their, their home.

Genny: 46:04

Yeah, I think one is that, like that, it's very normal and natural for little people to have really big feelings and that they need our help learning what to do with those feelings and that they need our help coming back to a regulated state and knowing also that, no matter what they feel, they are good. You know, so that they that they are loved and they are accepted and they are good. I think that those are important pieces that many children didn't get. You know that there's a disability if you feel something, then you're bad, or if you need to go away if you're bad, so being able to hold that space. The other thing was the importance of the blending of the logical and the emotional, the like we can't access our logical if we are in a very activated emotional state and so knowing that's for a little people to, for if they're starting to get really dysregulated and we're trying to teach them something or get them to do something like they're not going to take it in.

Cindy: 47:01

So you have to actually have time.

Genny: 47:03

Yeah, hold the space for the energy behind the big things often, then we can come in with the lesson, and that both are incredibly important. We need. We need both pieces. But I think we tend to we tend to lean toward the logical piece and the teaching piece and we're trying to get them to do this right now, but also holding space for, like it's okay to feel something, and even in ourselves. I think there's a lot of people who are so afraid to feel something fully because it might feel like it might never end, because we never got that chance to like, have those kind of tantrums, are to really feel when we were small, so our body could learn. A good cry actually makes me feel better afterwards, you know. Or if I like, oh, go scream into a pillow, okay, then it'll soften and I can come back to it with a different perspective. Now, that's part of the process too.

Cindy: 47:53

I love that you mentioned this. You know, I do see a lot of parents still struggling with seeing a lot of the behavior, especially in young kids. Like sometimes I get an email saying you know why is my 12 month old, you know, acting out like this, and we're trying to discipline them and show them that what they're doing is wrong, but it's, it's an emotion and but we see the external piece of that. You know, we think about, like how emotions are connected with our thinking and our behavior. So we see these emotions being externalized in these kids and we just see the behavior part, but we don't realize that that child is screaming in their high chair because they're frustrated and they want to get out, or, you know, they're bored, yeah, and they don't have the language yet. And so what you said is such an important piece because I do think, you know we spoke mostly about the parents and doing the work that we need to do. But seeing the different, like seeing this in our kids, that the behavior pieces, there's an emotional underlying, there's an underlying emotion to that, then it helps us see it very differently.

Cindy: 48:50

And we didn't get that opportunity. Most of us did not have that opportunity. Tantrums were bad. It was terrible to use your table child, child, you know, and and it was hard to now as a parent to unsee that, when we've been trained to kind of see that and it's still persistent in our society of having any motion, aka a tantrum, is a bad thing. There's still a lot of work that we need to do, but I do. I'm so happy that you brought that up, because we have. We need the reminder whenever we can. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for taking the time to chat with me today. I appreciate everything that you do and I will put the link, or the links, to your website and your Instagram account. Can you share a little bit about what you have at EQ school? You mentioned some workshops in case some parents are interested in joining.

Genny: 49:37

Yeah, I teach live workshops. I'm taking a little little break for the winter for now, but in the new year I'll have some new workshops around developing self awareness, emotional self management, and then I have some relationship management. So around how to have some of those more difficult conversations, how to hold the space for both people, you know, as we navigate those conversations. I also have some self paced workshops that I will be coming out in the new year as well.

Cindy: 50:02

They're all really important parents. I encourage you to check out her website and her Instagram page. Thank you again, jenny, and I hope we get to chat again soon. Yes, thank you so much for having me.