Old format BDIFs, Spiritomb, Atlas POG Championships and more!
alright. Alright. Yeah, you guys ready? I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna try and do an introduction. We'll see how it goes.
Mike:Right.
Brent:Alright. How did that, the first part of introductions, the hard part, welcome to the trash Lynch podcast. It's me, Brett Halliburton, as always. I'm here with Britt Pybus and Mike Boucher, a hundred percent success rate. We've always been here. Every podcast.
Mike:Oh yeah.
Brent:our commitment to making the podcast less rambly let's jump right in and talk about all the old school tournaments that have been going on poker stats and how Mike has done in all of them and why he did what he did. Mike, I haven't seen any the results from the most recent tournament with the world's 2018 format, but I know you have, you want to tell us all about it?
Mike:Sure. So we're going to go through some of the different tournaments that have happened starting with the most recent one so the last one was world's 2018. And I have the top eight decks here. There was three buzz rocks, two carnivores, one door control, one Ray closet, and one Zorro garb, deck. I ended up getting second place with guard of war. And I'll talk a little bit more about that in a second, but Brit, do you want to give us a little bit of a history of the world's 2018 format?
Brit:Yeah. Nashville. So I. I didn't play it. This was the, I barely, I didn't qualify for worlds this year. So this was a format I had prepared for it. Cause I had tested, I was had friends playing in the event and I was playing in the Nashville open, but so guarded where would have won the worlds beforehand. And it was Had gotten a little resurgence in popularity for one, it has just had always stayed a metagame presidents, just strictly because of Glade, which was such a powerful answer to Zuora arc decks, which were more or less the entire format. And then, but then with. In I'm blanking again on the stats. I got mysterious treasure. I know Mikey was a big fan of in God of war, which let you just search for your stage one. The Karelia usually was pink, a fairy type, but there were some older ones that were psychic. So you just had an additional search card for her. Your evolutions and just a little bit of consistency. And then again, you had just the overall power of God, of war, a powerful GX attack that sort of was really good and various match-ups as well as, just again, the typing that Glade had over Zuora. But then, and then, and Ray Kwanzaa was the new card going into this format. This was, I think the second worlds that since they started. Making it at the start of a new format historically, that was usually not the case. Usually it was always the last format was nationals and then worlds or something. But more recently they've been doing that. The world's format is completely unknown, or I guess, depending on how you factor in the Japanese results, things, but Ray Kwanzaa was like the big power card of the set, but since it had. it's weak to guard a Bora. That was another reason that guard Hawara was an older deck that was creeping back into favor in the metagame again. and I think those are really the name decks and then buzz rock was just, again, similar to accolade was just so strong all year because of Zuora arc, because there were so many goods or arc variants. Just the fact that you have these fast fighting Pokemon. The handle things. And then the deck itself almost saw, I don't remember how it ended up being played at worlds. If I remember, I think the lists shifted back towards the way they used to look. Cause then when the deck first started, it was mostly all about a buzz swole, GX, and then you just had and rock in the background, but then eventually the baby bus wall gets released. And for a little while the necklace shifts in playing more like a heavy three or four copies of those and only one copier. Of the GX, you had really easy draw with artillery and just what you needed to succeed was just energies and like Guzman gust of wind effects. The deck just needed very little and had really good comeback mechanics with B stirring. And so on.
Mike:The only two that I think you missed was Mallomar was the big deck that came out of a, whatever set that mysterious treasure was in as well.
Brit:the step before a little while with
Mike:yeah. Yeah. So Malmo. Yeah. So Mallomar got second at worlds that year, too. Robin Zuora, garb, and melanoma was not. Very much played in this tournament at all.
Brit:I was going to say this was somewhat suspect that the Mallomar player disqualified, right?
Mike:Yeah. Yeah.
Brit:maybe not to cast too much of a doubt on the results.
Mike:Yeah. and the other deck that kind of really emerged, somewhat surprisingly at worlds was, the buzz will garbage door shrine deck. and I think Brent, remind me that's what, your son played, right? How Elton did and did very well.
Brent:rock shrine deck was like, I thought that was the big quote, unquote, like new deck in the world's 2018 format. So it's interesting to hear you talking about this. Cause it makes it sound like, that did not survive the metagame.
Mike:Yeah, I was a little bit surprised that I, none of them made top eight. I don't w we don't have all the decks that were played just yet, but, yeah, I don't know. that's the deck that I played in world's day one that year, and I thought it was quite strong.
Brit:the X files deck that year wasn't that year you had Ross's deck.
Mike:Yeah. and I just wanted to play garden more for this event because that's what I played at nationals that year, or NAC, whatever. And I really liked and I streamlined the list a little bit from what I played and, part of my thinking as well was I think, looking back at the format, Pedro tourist is requires a deck might actually beat the. Best deck. And I thought other people might've also thought that, and of has a very strong, requires a matchup. so as we talk, what about all these different formats and these tournament's, it's really interesting to think about what players will pick looking back at the format, and not so much what was actually played. going into the event, but what is popular coming out of that event? Cause we were very uncertain going into the event. So I don't, people knew it was going to be a strong car, but nobody really knew the best way to play it. And so Pedro doing really well after the event, people took that and look back at it and said, okay, that's pretty good. let loose obviously historically let loose Marquetto Showed itself to be a very strong card. And that was like one of the first decks where it really shined. people can retroactively look back and say, he was ahead of the curve. Let's play that because we know it's strong now over more time. and so like in Swiss, I played against two Ray clauses and as able to beat. Both of those, which was good. I ended up losing to bus rock in the finals and I beat Zuora garb in top four. So yeah, Gardy seemed good with a, two of the bigger decks being or garb and Ray Kwanzaa, Zurich ops was pretty close match up, but you're favored, in general because it's hard, you don't play so many items that trash Lynch is often not going to be hitting two 30. and it. You have a Glade and even just getting you seven energy between you and for Gardner to one shot to work is also not too hard.
Brit:trying to remember what the top eight of that world looked like, because I remember so Pedro was in top four with And then I'm just blanking.
Mike:There was a Zuora pod. the, I forget his name, but he was called like the God killer from like Indiana or something like that. he played Zuora pod. I think Szymanski like just miss with buds garb, shrine.
Brit:The list that one worlds that year the famous for being the Zurich list that didn't play ultra ball. Is that correct?
Mike:Yeah, that's
Brit:And then, so did it, is that, I guess a good question for one, do you, was that the optimal way to play it? Cause, I think stuff just rotate it and it didn't end up being. The same necklace. Oh yeah. Cause he lost Bridget and stuff. I think so necklace got really weird after rotation, but yeah. So I guess the question is where the, cause he said he played against us or a garb and top four, was it more of this world's winning list or the
Mike:I think it was the same 60 that Robin had. It may be maybe a Carter two up, but it was pretty much the same thing with the four mysterious treasurers instead. So I do think that makes sense because treasure find. The whole Gar blind and it finds lately. So I think it makes sense.
Brit:Needs are actually that's what I dunno. I just, it's, I feel like a fool, obviously trying to say that the world's list is wrong and I don't think it is, but just knowing my own like personal preferences and stuff, I just feel like I personally really would've had trouble being talked into that because. I dunno, like I, again, it's just one chain of logic. It's stronger than the other, but in my head, it's just I need Xerox to function, so I should still play cards to make sure I can find this or that you hit the money and you open up the tos RX are great, but some games you have to have some games you have to search for just the one. And that's your bread and butter for the first couple of turns.
Brent:Oh, he also played Evo sodas.
Brit:okay. Yeah, those are good. In the middle of trying to say, I was like, I'm blanking on the list. So I'm sure it was, there's something that I'm forgetting and ego soda would be just that. But I think it's always curious how, we have these trends, for ultra balls, in every deck forever. And then it occasionally just gets shaken up and at one time it wins the world's, just instances like that. what we were talking about in the first episode is, a lot of formats, most of these old formats are left unexplored like that because we DNR deck building trends are so much so influenced by just what people say, I don't know if that's just, the trends are influenced by the trends or something else, it's hard, it's hard to shake and I've written about this sort of thing too. Similarly, if you know now and nobody, some no name had posted in August of 2011, posted the truth on, polka gym, deck, health forum. He would've, he would have been made fun of it. he would have, he would have taken every insult in the book and, I've been told to play SP or, something with more supporters or whatever, and, Just, maybe that's being like idealistic of me. I just wish there were more truths out there. Like more of these just like perfect concoctions that just like really took, imagination and creativity and all that. some of that's in the design to everything, certain again, maybe this is just like a, my old opinion being an older player, but it seems like that the cards themselves aren't designed the same anymore.
Mike:I agree with that there. Yeah.
Brit:I don't know. I just feel these are my Pokemon TCG, like boomer opinions is just like are reprints and everything has new HP. And that, all that to say,
Brent:Mike did. Did Sylvian GX have any role in the format of this tournament? that was, I think that was actually more popular control deck then like Zorro control at the time.
Mike:Yeah, that's true. I don't think Sylvian was very good by the time.
Brit:the year before. Cause that was the year that guard of Warner was the big new card
Mike:so Brent, stop talking about Sylvian with garden, where he's talking about the control deck. That's just like four for Sylvian. and I think that was more popular actually the year, like the season after this. if I remember correctly, but I could be
Brent:I want to say you're wrong. Cause Liam played Sylvia and GX. In AIC that year and got 17th and we were playing it because I think we want to play control. And I think Kyle Renfield had played it at like the regionals immediately proceeding that and gotten lost in top eight or
Brit:That's who I was trying to think of. Cause he was the definitive Sylvian player. I was trying to remember the year that he would have been implying. And that sounds right to me. Cause that was the last year I was really at multiple regionals and stuff like that.
Brent:Yeah. So I know he played it in AIC and his list was like he had caught the secret list and it was like three cards off the list that we played. And I think he had a reasonable, a tournament. I think he ended up bubbled top 16 or something.
Mike:Yeah, I think probably the thing that made Sylvian harder to play was, I don't think I really beat buzz rock because buzz rock can pretty easily do 200 and, accelerate energies and then Mallomar came out, which was not unwinnable, but pretty hard with the energy recursion. And then Rick Kwanzaa came out in your week. Yes. But they also kill you really easily too. So my guess was that it didn't really get talked about too much because of the aggressiveness of the decks, but it certainly did be door decks.
Brent:Yeah, it just depends. How much has our work there? Isn't a format, right?
Brit:I can't imagine that anyone did, but did anyone happen to play the even told deck? that was my group stack
Mike:Oh, yeah, probably not. I still haven't seen all of them.
Brit:Clifton made top 32 at worlds with it. We tested it a lot and he really didn't change it much from the nationals list.
Mike:Yeah. I forgot about that deck. That deck was pretty sweet. You were in like evil tell breaks and stuff.
Brit:mad necessarily target tower Tarbell made some personal changes to the last that I think would have made the difference in my tournament. And I like. I liked lost a czar arc twice and he played seven enhanced hammers that I think would have won it for me. And I, if I had one of my round nine, I would have qualified for worlds, but neither here nor there, but I have, I think that deck was fine, especially to, just depending on the metagame you didn't be a carnivore.
Mike:You didn't have to be prepared for it,
Brit:the buzzer rock shrine deck was popular, I would think that was pre would probably be pretty easy.
Mike:Yeah, for sure.
Brent:Let's talk about, should we talk about the next tournament? Pokey sets eight BLW to a O R.
Mike:So this was, expanded regionals in the fall of, I believe 2015. Does that sound right? Britt? it was when Frank and Jimmy did really well.
Brit:Yeah, this was, we got AOR was, would have been the new set, I think, that's what had best but Quinn and the unknowns and stuff. So I think that was the big reason why the deck popped up. So I'm trying to remember what else was big from the set. So worlds had just finished and Jacob had won worlds blast twice, and I'm trying to remember rotation wise. I think. yeah, this was okay. Standard was bad. Standard was really bad during this time rotation took out most of the supporters. And so there was a really low supporter pool for standard.
Mike:Yeah, but all the regionals in the fall were expanded, which is nice.
Brent:Yeah, Oh, it's funny. Cause I saw the results and I saw that there were Thai ranch from guaranteeing and decks that this was the, Pennsylvania tournament where. Both Russell apart, Krista Puerco played that Ty ranch from deck and did well.
Mike:And it was right after that. That was the last one, I think, the week before JP had come in second or something like that with and then And the week before for that JP one, the regionals with Blastoise. So that was my recollection. When I first saw this format was.
Brit:got second Israel beat him.
Mike:Okay. I just remember this was like JPS, like huge run of doing super well, at a couple of regionals.
Brit:Yeah. Cause I remember just in that, in that just the narrative of the expanded format, this the Israel's way in at Arizona regionals that year was the first time gets us. had been played there at least the first time people had noticed GEPs as being good. And that's how we beat JP in the finals is I think he gets, he gets the checkmate gets us on the first turn or what have you in one of the, yeah, I don't know if it was game three, but I think at one point, and then, the rest is history gets us ruined a lot of people's tournaments for a good amount of time or what have you. Yeah, I'm trying to remember what else was good. I know my neck trick garbage door. I see that there. Yeah, some electric was big and you played the toad bats with pic. I remember that was also, so Jimmy won. Jimmy O'Brien wins the regionals and then he like went undefeated in day one Swiss at the next one. And I remember pram is the one who ended his streak and he was pulling tote bats. But I think Jay Jimmy still. Won or got second at that tournament stuff and blinking.
Mike:pram won one of their, or he like one, or got finals in one of the regionals with toad bats. And I think Jason actually top forward one of the regionals with toad bats as well.
Brent:Toad. Tina was a big deck metal. Ray was a big deck.
Mike:and just like straight Frank Diaz was the
Brit:just straight either
Mike:straight, evil, tall. Yeah. Not the cause I think everyone else has more on them. I forget if Maxie was the big, evil, tall version yet?
Brent:I don't think it was.
Mike:Not yet. Okay.
Brent:I'm looking at, I'm looking at my notes from, that, from that Pennsylvania tournament and we played one straight evil, tall deck.
Brit:Dylan Brian made top four, I think, with the best recording that same weekend, the weekend after when, after Jimmy had won the first weekend, I believe. And his list was a little bit different, but I'm not sure how much.
Brent:I think that, I think actually that it was like the both top word. Jimmy went like nine Oh day one, but Dylan was also playing best Quinn flaring. And I went eight one, but nobody was talking about Dylan because Jimmy was destroying the tournament. I could be wrong,
Mike:The other interesting thing that I remember from
Brent:but I know we played best. We couldn't flare and we were basically playing like same 60 is Dylan.
Mike:Okay, cool. the other interesting deck that I remember an interesting thing in general was, Frank BD, Nick Robinson, and top four of the event that he, Frank ended up winning. and Nick was playing saber like garbage door and it was the first, version of say Bly Garber door. That is most similar to what we've seen over the last couple of years. and it's. and it's also if you want to learn how to play against a control deck, that is like the, one of the best matches to ever watch Frank had does all these really cool things like attacking with Kel, Dio and retreating at the right times. And, just plays his cards, like the most optimal way possible. And like that I remember watching that match from home. Cause I didn't go to that event. and like being, I learned so much. And so it was really cool. but so save like arbiter was, like obviously save garb, Dustin had the concept a couple of years before this. but this was like the real first time that I was introduced as the control and lock deck that we now know it to be.
Brit:We stole it from Jason to Dustin and I, there, I was mostly Dustin, but he CA came to me with the idea. I think he just. I'm just playing against Jason on PTC geo on one day and just Hey, I think this is a good idea.
Mike:That's funny.
Brit:it that summer.
Brent:it's funny. I like me, I feel like I learned about that deck when Dylan Dreyer posted an article on six prizes, 30 days before he retired and became a pro Hearthstone player. And he was like, I just invented this new archetype.
Mike:That's funny.
Brent:And, I, it's fun. It's fun to hear you guys say, because I've always been under the impression that he essentially created that archetype.
Mike:Maybe he did. I, and this was just like one of the first times that it performed like really well at an event.
Brit:No, I think Mikey is right. I think I know, I remember the stack a little bit more on that now that you've talked about it, my memory has been jogged and yeah, cause it has some pretty weird choices in it that ended up becoming staples. later down the line.
Brent:Yeah, I know we Liam top four and I think with. Dylan's list in juniors. this was like our first tournament, of our, yeah, I guess this was like the first tournament we'd gone to. Cause they had Arizona and Euston regionals before that. And then it was Lancaster. And this was like the first year where we had an expectation that Liam was going to not suck at Pokemon all the time. and like he goes the first sermon any does really well at that's been flaring and then he comes back the next day. Because they did all the junior rounds, like on the first day and did like a league challenge. Oh no, I guess he did a lead challenge on Sunday and he played Sable garb. And we had been, we essentially, everyone knew that puzzle of time was coming out in January. And we were like, we don't care what people, what happens. We're going to play Sable guard with puzzle a time when they print puzzles time, because that seems ridiculous.
Mike:yeah.
Brent:It's the most unfair thing that I could possibly be.
Brit:I remember we thought it was one of those areas where they're, Oh, they're definitely going to ban it before it comes out. there's no way. And then ended up being fine and then eventually not, One thing that's worth talking about. cause there's a pretty important deck that didn't exist at the end when those re these regionals were taking place, but would have been legal, but it doesn't get discovered until later on in the ear. So the AOR ancient origins has forest of giant plants. That was a big card in it.
Mike:That sounds right.
Brit:Yeah. And so that enables McQuinn Bible, but yeah, which was, is a huge factor in an expanded. For a long time, but I know Andrew at the city mayor at the Chicago city marathon that year. but I just noticing that and the results here, I don't, no one had really caught onto that deck and it was a big, it was legal and standard two. It was fine in both formats.
Brent:Yeah.
Mike:a good point.
Brent:and it's funny cause I saw that too, and I know, I felt like going into worlds that year festival could vile plume and my mind might've been the best deck. And I wonder if you need puzzle a time to enable that. And that's, that was like the difference between that. And now just like the
Brit:I was really blinking. Cause I think where your draws are always optimal. I think you're right. Like best Quinn bioplan, like really doesn't lose and the games. you just can't be turned when bio plumes, most of the time for a lot of decks. I remember I actually had a, so I played water box. this was before the format. but then I had a pretty good win record against it. Surprisingly, you could just, similarly, you just had to, didn't play to beat them. You just played it around the amount of energy, which is a problem that. Probably could be solved with better lists.
Mike:Or if you're just, you could just play like that Johnston fly Sandra, the Viacom two times when the game. okay, so let's finish up. so to finish up this format, the old format eight, I played seismic toad Courbet. It's what I wish I played at that Lancaster regionals that year, too. What I ended up playing pretty much the rest of the year and expanded, I really liked towed bats. I think it gives you a lot of options quick and bunches, very strong. and yeah, so I got top four. I ended up losing to Wimble with best McQuinn Clarion. He ended up winning the event in a desperate couldn't flare mirror in the finals. he's pretty convinced, but we couldn't flare and was the best deck for that format. one thing that I. Do you want to note is I later that year during cities, I played a size Crow bat with one lender, CX and fighting energy is over water. Energy is specifically for the best, but couldn't match up. and I think that till the Metro is already pretty close, I'm probably slightly unfavored for towed bats. But with Lander, is it like swings it the other way? Maybe like 55, 45 or 60 40 in your favor? I didn't play it for this event. I didn't really know what to expect from people at this event. I didn't expect best, but queen to be the most plate deck. I figured eval tall would be a wood and they were tied for the most popular.
Brit:only played towed bats and expanded that year. And it was super close. There was just, there was so many factors like. like every, like if you could get a laser flip and just immediately win like a heads tails. you could, if they didn't have Adino, like you just would just win. And then, I remember my, your scoop up flips being pretty important. And I'm trying to remember why that would be, if just at some point they're not one shot in you, they're only two shot in you. And that just makes enough of a difference, But.
Mike:I think it's that.
Brit:championships and I just won on a huge scoop up flip.
Mike:that's funny that you say that. Cause I w when I played windmill in top four, our game three came down to a single scoop up flip.
Brit:clubs, even games where they take two prizes on their second turn on your towed, DC with the vest with, or sometimes even just lock down, get zero sick and energy and quaking punch and they don't have anything or, and quaking punch. And that's just enough.
Mike:the one card that, or when ball played two copies of tropical beach in his list, which I think is very good in the matchup because, it allows them to more consistently drive and as the game goes on,
Brit:something interesting, as expanded progressed that year, what, how their lists really got defined. Cause if that's best for gunplay, Rihanna's. Tier one and expanded all that year. And sometime after I think, and it was really by the spring regionals that we saw lots of people, playing the beaches. Cause wham was always, one of the main archetype, one architects of the archetype. and I remember he played beach and, Eric Anzman had a good run at those regionals with, the same thing with beaches and his. flaring, unless I remember a ramble in the later weeks, Trevena started becoming a bigger threat and he would, he kept trying some weirder cards and they weren't enough to help them match up. But I remember at one point he was playing, he was like a roadum that did something and an Umbrian that also did something that they weren't good enough to make that matchup winnable.
Brent:Alright, let's talk about, let's talk about pokey stats seven. This is the BKT two CRI Mike with another top 16 finish.
Mike:Yeah, this was one of the tournaments that I didn't do as well in, but this is the format that. started with, toward winning the European IC with Doro, Zuora pod Windsor first came out and then this format ended with toward winning Australia with Zuora guard of war. Brit, do you remember this format?
Brit:Yeah, pretty well. it was interesting because that's was the format. Cause their work doesn't come out in a false ad. It comes out and it's in. A little special set. and then I have its own promo. So I'm trying to remember, was the first, I think this was the first series of events where both the new cause buzzer rock or bioswale like rock both cards or rather just bus wall and be strings and stuff or from the set and then,
Mike:both. so small GX is out. Baby Boswell is not out yet. And B string is also not out
Brit:You just have OC Taylor and like in
Mike:And like Iraq, right? Yeah.
Brit:but yeah, but I think what's interesting is so Zuora pod is really the first archetype that sort of takes off because of this, but like people were playing, Zuora, like in rock first. I even know it was the more popular version, at least in America until toward wins. And then we start to see other decks breaking out. They're interesting results though. Cause I don't remember Greninja being so prevalent. This was a format with Garrett, Tina promo being legal rights. So these present related just caught the format at a good time.
Mike:Yeah. I think so too.
Brent:I was sad to see, like for us, we never had good luck with zero regard of war. It was, it always seemed crazily and consistent even with disorder of our dry engine.
Brit:It was bad. I remember, I like thought it would be really good. I don't remember. I think it was around nationals when Mikey was on the regular version. I think for some reason, I like theory to a point where I thought so our guardian would be really good. And then I tested it and it was just terrible.
Mike:Yeah.
Brit:but yeah, I find that interesting too and spins it similarly to, I just never, I was never very impressed with the zero pod as a deck. I always, I really liked Zuora rock much more
Mike:Hey.
Brit:in the match-ups we're all pretty even anyways, almost just who went first a lot of ways.
Mike:Yeah, I agree. and that's why I played to our rock. So another interesting thing in these tournament's and specifically this one is the way that we have to play these old formats on PTC job's since the rules have changed is you have to both players pass their first term. and so that the first player can play a supporter, which actually nerves Melissa pie significantly because the wind pods, has free retreat on the first turn of the game. so that's a little unfortunate and then, and probably also contributed to, I don't see any Zuora, very few Zuora putts here because of that.
Brit:I've never, I didn't like this format very much. I was still applying then I think I just played SARC mostly. I just never liked that the buzzkill formats.
Mike:Yeah.
Brent:so here's the closest thing I have to a funny story about this format. so where at UIC and the juniors and seniors don't play until the second day, right? Like they essentially get to watch all the masters play day one, and then their day one is day two for all the masters. That way they have the room because they've emptied out all the masters. So we're scrambling around trying to figure out, what decks are doing well, what should we play? And I want to say, I think Igor in Jimmy pen, Darvis, we're playing, deck. And, no surprise. They were doing pretty well because they're very good mine. And, Igor was, you should definitely play this decision by deck. This to situate. Deck is crazy and, and leaned, hears that. And he's okay. If he really thinks it's going to be, should probably play this deck. And then we watched, I want to say like toward played Jimmy in like round seven or eight, or he played Igor and completely destroyed them on stream. and I was like, wow, that Zuora work Alyssa pod, that seems really good. And Jimmy was like, no, that's next trash.
Brit:It's bad. They all, I remember they all fizzled it. Mace was playing it too. And he was real high on it when he was four and Oh, by the end of the day, you're just like, no, it was bad.
Mike:and so it's important to realize that do you, I see that year. That's like the precursor to all Zuora decks going forward because nobody was playing three or four Bridget, in their deck. And just the way that Torrid had constructed his deck was basically the template for Zurich decks, moving forward. so I assume that the deciduous work list that they were playing was very
Brit:It was a lot of spread. Like I think it was like a three, three or arc with nine tails and taboo, Coca, a real like spread devolution kind of focus was, are just being your draw support. And then he's a pretty good attacker still sometimes too. think people tried to refine the list after the fact, by remembering it just, again was just not good enough. It was just not as good as, your simple, just your Layla is in Europe and then smash mash the tech of choice, with the metagame you need to be.
Mike:I guess one other, or maybe two other things worth mentioning is, broken guard of, or quote unquote was besides our guard of, was the guard of our way to play it before where you'd run three or four max potion. I think Alex Szymanski a top four or, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Chris got top four in London. and then the other thing that's interesting is that metal started out in this format as like a viable deck choice. And then very quickly went downhill. Once everyone realized how good Zurich was.
Brit:his deck. He played this like silver Valley GX metal toolbox. presumably, it was mostly a guard of our counter deck cause broken guard. A bar was the hype to tech going in. For sure. And I think that was a lot of reasons. Probably why people were undervaluing our cause they probably, and again, the valid criticism, but I think just like no Brooklyn garden awards too good. And Glade is going to check the arc. So there's no ways of arc is going to be the deck to be scenario. I'm trying to remember though. Yeah. Cause the metal with the metal deck, cause he makes top eight at the tournament, but I just always, I don't feel like. And effort did anything ever again? I remember it being pretty, even as a garden work player,
Mike:Yeah.
Brit:it was like barely 45, 55 or something.
Brent:All right. Let's talk about focus stats six. This was BCR to ROS.
Mike:Alright, do you, do we want this to be the last old one that we talk about? And then we can talk a little bit about current stuff since we're.
Brent:Yeah, that seems like a great idea because I feel like when we talk about the plasma set, the focus that's five, let's go back and talk about that next week. Cause I think we want to talk about that a lot. Cause that's crazy,
Mike:yeah. and cool. So this one was, and we've actually talked a little bit about it by talking about one of the other formats, but, this was world 2015, where. Jacob, and Magner one with Archie's Blastoise and may Scott second with side's muttered CRO bat. So Brett, tell us, could you play a lot this year? what were you thinking
Brent:I, and I, and Brett was super close to, means at the time, like you were like super involved in this, right?
Brit:that was back when I had, I was, yeah, I taught, I was a top 16 player this year and the year before. I, but the year before wasn't a day, one day two stuff. I just, you got free trips and stuff with it though. And that was nice. But yeah, we tested a ton for this world day one. We were on ground on. I don't remember why we switched from ground on, but we tested ground on a lot, like with like your motto, cause your motto playground on that year. And he came in our room and we were playing with him and picking his list apart too. And, we sent, Curtis was one of the Curtis lion, a good player from Canada. It was like our player from day one. And he played grout on that day and I played metal for whatever reason. Dustin's Imerman made it out a day, one with metal and I. I just really don't remember why. I thought it was fine. You think most of your, you have pretty even match-ups across the board? I just don't remember what we were favored against. I made top 32
Mike:Yeah.
Brit:again, like I think he just had a lot of even matchups and we just had good texts.
Mike:That's how I felt about metal. I was like, what is metal beat? Doesn't really beat anything. It doesn't really lose to anything, but.
Brit:B pout on was a secret deck that did well, day one, I crushed one it's like groundwater. It was wonderful.
Brent:Yeah, we played like we played metal toolbox at, nationals that year. And, I think deeply regretted. We didn't play mega Kwanzaa,
Brit:they're required. The deck was far more popular, but yeah, so the, I guess the main sort of dynamic of this world is really. Blastoise versus towed bats, I think. And so it ended up Jacob wins pretty easily worlds, but as the format, as both text remained prevalent and expanded, towed bouts started to play silent lab, pretty connected, certainly, which has more general uses then just that match up. But it does, it did make a difference, at least in my eyes variants in the Metro. Sometimes mostly you mostly just stop. Kelly a Russian and you can get, you can trap it, a little bit easier with lasers and things like that. but yeah, I always thought I really, even without the, I was, I really thought the matchup was fairly close us. Like Jake, Jacob, just drew, a magician, the entire tournament. There's nothing you can do in those games, regardless of what your deck you're playing for the most part. But I was never. Super impressed with Blastoise and I always preferred toad bats as a player and would probably say it was the best deck in this format. I thought.
Brent:I think everybody thought if, if he had not drawn the like computer search off the shaman for two in like game two, the item lock was going to go up and He is, Jacob was just gonna lose game two and we go on to game three.
Brit:And like miss surprises, like a MuTu or something that maybe would have mattered in the second game. I don't remember, but yeah, I like, I'm trying to remember like blast choices, at least for me just. Not as nuance like night, March is similar and they're both just you play your first turn, your first, really long turn. And largely whether you win or lose is established from that point. But there's a lot, even that being the case for both decks night marches a lot harder, still has a lot more finer points and things that have to go on Blastoise two is similar. It's just research management, but it's just, you don't have as many important cards and. Your cards aren't quite as vulnerable that similarly you just lose. If you don't get the supporter by the, if you don't get your Archie is probably by the third Turner. So like your games are usually done.
Brent:I always felt like it was a lot easier to play because your objective term one was crystal clear, like nine March. You were doing a lot of different things and you were trying to set up like the next three turns, Archie's was like, you just have to do this one thing and it'll be fine.
Brit:no, the night, March nine of my term, me, there was always. Just world worlds of difference playing against a good night, March player in a bad night, March player. Cause again, a bad against bad Martin, bad nightmare, which player that almost seems at least in my experience against the deck, it was just always felt my plans were working like nothing ever went wrong, easy strategies that you're supposed to do, make sure to Skyrim turn on a jolting so they can't kill your shame. little things like that as always, Smoothly, but then when I'm playing against a good player, I just don't even understand how I'm losing sometimes. Like I'm doing all these things still and I just never had a chance to the entire game. I don't know. It's these decks that seem like they're autopilot better. Just have so many sequencing and resources, resource, mint management decisions. Each of them turn that it just if you're not paying close enough attention and obviously I'll, I don't see what quite what they're doing.
Mike:Yeah.
Brent:So I feel like when we say that's the format, I feel like, it neglects me and Mike, obviously you did great with a primal grout and I'm a huge primal grout and fan.
Mike:I have a lot to say about this tournament in particular because, first of all, this was my first year back plane. and it was also the first year that they had the day one day two structures. So that's interesting to think about, aye. And even though we said that it was, Archie's verse towed bats in the finals, that's not really, in my opinion, what. coming into this world, what everyone was thinking about, they were thinking about things like bakery, closet. They were thinking about metal. They were thinking about towed garbage. Jason had just went Nashville's with, they were thinking about whale Lord, which just came out of nowhere and got second and nationals. so the metagame was actually fairly up in the air. Mega metric was a pretty big deck coming out of nationals.
Brent:we played Megaman electric tool drop travish. So
Mike:yeah.
Brit:you're definitely right. I think what I was really trying
Brent:That was a terrible medical incidentally.
Brit:just felt like those two are the best stacks or at least the ones there they're the finals decks. And then just clearly better. I don't know, at least toad bats, particularly because I think nightmarish has a pretty good showing at this worlds too. Like a lot of
Mike:right.
Brit:made,
Brent:it was it, I was about to say night March, because it was a, I feel like it was like Nicholina and Igor and Dylan Dreyer all like day two with a night March, and then had like top 32, top 64 runs with it.
Brit:to play toad bats that year, but I think it was Jimmy Nicolina and Dylan. All
Brent:that's there were three or four, like local players to me that were all playing nine March and I'll rec day one. And I was like, Oh my God.
Mike:yeah.
Brent:It was like a thing that was not even really on people's radar.
Mike:yeah, that's true. I remember I played mega metric at nationals and I played. I played night, March early in the year when it wasn't go to a still Trump card, we're still in the format tonight. March was pretty mad, but then I played against it. Had nationals and was really impressed by it. So that's what I ended up playing for day. One approach that year was nightmarish as well. And I made it through day one, and night March super a really high conversion rate just in general from people going from day one to day two. So I thought that people would, it really be on people's radar, and it would get countered. and so I switched decks to like, the circle circuit ride to go bat deck, which was. Really bad. and I regret that a lot. Yeah. I should have just played nightmarish again. this was also an interesting world because often, the X files crew plays the same back. Are these, maybe we have two decks that we split between, but we were all over the place that year. Tyler played I played night March. Sam played Blastoise Ross played grout on Pablo, also played grout on Simon. He got top eight with his weird Don fan polluted deck. And so we were all over the place as well. So coming back to this poker staff's tournament, I think it's a, it's one of the more unique formats to replay again, because the outcome was so different than what the input, the expected input was. and so I had, I made it very different deck choice than I would have for worlds. And I played great on, because I think grout on has the best Blastoise and toad bats, matchups. if you want a deck that is good against both those decks grotto was really the only one that fit the bill. and so that's why I. Went with that. And, it ended up working really well. I beat a bunch of tow. I think I've played for toads in Swiss and I beat all of them. I ended up losing the Burt in the finals and he was playing towed bats with it just drew awkward and quick and punch really hurt me. you can lose the matchup. It's in metric is actually surprisingly pretty good head. Ringer can go on grout on. Even like through it's a primal thing. he puts a head ringer on it. He had, yeah. I forgot about it. and so if you don't get a tool down on turn one on the ground on, and they start quaking punching, like you're going to get head ringer at some point.
Brit:by the time you're fully powered, you're just taking every CRO bat, every goal bat damage, and just get X bald for 160 or something.
Mike:the metric does a, I forget like one 48 for two, if they have a tool on it.
Brit:Yeah, I'm trying to remember if it did, if it was one 70 or one 80 after laser bang. Cause I know I would knock out of exit it's but I'm trying I'm blanking. I think w I think you're right. I didn't know. It was one 70. It wouldn't knock out a tote or something.
Mike:Yeah. so yeah, that was tough. Little tough, but yeah, I think I'm actually surprised I played Wimble with the rights to curb that deck. I really don't think that deck was very good. This format AF after playing it at that worlds.
Brit:don't remember why it picked up popularity. Cause I know Scott, sky field coming out was a big part of it, but I feel like someone did well somewhere with cause all the cars always, every other gnats happens before. The U S and I know, I think it, maybe it did. Okay. Oh, I think it was big in Canada, Canadian nationals that year. I think there is a couple of different versions of it in top aches. I remember Curtis was playing one of them that year and there was a bunch of weird ones. I just remember, because I had to chase Maloney, won Canadian nationals that year with metal, with the bronze zone toolbox.
Brent:Yeah. And I remember, Dylan, Brian played like a right shoe counters deck and did terrible at worlds.
Brit:that was Jim his deck that
Mike:I was going to say.
Brit:Yeah. It was a, it was like, You mega Ray quiza with a one, one bronze song and just like other bizarre attacks, Jim min.
Brent:To say the big thing I took away from all that was, I spent honestly like the next year, trying to find situations where I could say to someone, you should just put a one, one mega Ray in that. And then at the end of your first turn evolve to Mega-Ray.
Brit:Yeah, Chipman's a, one of a kind deck builder to be sure
Mike:Yeah.
Brit:he made. I think it was just last year. He had a, he hadn't made day two at originals with like steel licks Nieto. I couldn't tell you what any of them did. I think it played the that. Let's see, rare candy more or whatever, the, whatever medium is good for. If you have to play for stage twos or whatever.
Brent:All right. let's talk about, let's talk about real tournaments in real formats that are coming up
Mike:let's do it.
Brent:Let's talk about Atlas sock, pod championship. so I have a couple of questions for you guys, or you guys can just talk about where you guys are with your testing.
Mike:You go,
Brent:All right. All right. Here's the question? so Kevin Clement, they wrote on 60 cards that he didn't think there'd be a lot of internet it's at this tournament because it's too hard to get the cards true or false.
Mike:I agree. For the most
Brit:agree. I think I maybe be able to speak to those more than some players because I. recently just updated my own personal account. I've just had a couple of shared accounts among friends, but to be at two one. So I figured, to be able to participate in real stuff, I need to get my pocket ID account updated again. And so dragon pulps were really expensive. And top I was doing this like really just a month or two ago and not even so in the set, rebel clash was released and they were just. no way they're worth that many tickets. yeah, I was just like, I'm just not gonna mess with
Brent:are people just like buying codes now, is that what's weird is we used to win boxes a tournament's because we played a junior senior, it's like we could win boxes and then we would get the codes and like that would tide us over. You just have to buy codes now.
Mike:Yup. That's what I've been doing.
Brit:one's buying product either. So there are presumably far less codes in circulation. Like you don't have. Player upon players. I feel like, I don't know. I usually always sold my codes or would give them to people at these accounts. And so there's I'm not opening my prize. my top eight packs from this weekend's league up and there's, three codes or whatever. They just, the only people with codes are people selling them, seemingly like there's no other reason to have them. Cause there's no
Brent:what's the price for a code these days,
Brit:It's high, to be honest, like it's close to a dollar.
Mike:If for the newest set it's anywhere between 85 cents and a dollar.
Brent:man? it used to be 50 to 60 cents the inflation, but yeah, I think that speaks to people just aren't cracking packs, like they used to be. So all of a sudden there's a supply demand. All right. My next question is I feel like a lot of lists I've seen when people talk about Vika volt, they talk about it as a tech for Peegrum or a standalone deck. What will be more popular?
Brit:I think visible as its own has a ton of promise. I don't know if we'll have the list. I don't know if the list will be solved, but I would be pretty shocked if. It also too. Seems like it's perfect now. Like it's not going to be any better than it is now. Like once rotation happens, there's no way it's going to be as good as it is. Because there's just so many cards. It seems if it had to be good, it would be in this format. And I think that's at least why I'm most interested in testing it. Cause you just have, you have your stadium, you have tech, you have the prism star, you have your plus power is Yeah. Although, you're good little annoying cards too. It just seems promising to me.
Mike:Yeah, I agree. I think it'll either be its own deck. Or not, maybe it won't be, but I don't even think it's good enough to be at one of them peek around. Like it doesn't really make sense.
Brit:was trying to think of too. I was wondering if I would maybe I'm like the green, like the heavy bolt-on greens version.
Mike:Actually it might be a good spirit team counter in Peegrum like you could play one, have to be good against spirit too, but that would be the only reason I think you would play it. If you wanted to
Brit:Why exactly does
Mike:Just cause like it's basically one chatting every spirit to him and they can't play their tools to Han. Yeah.
Brit:on items, that makes sense.
Brent:Alright. Alright. So both Kevin Clemente on 60 cards and Pablo on six prizes. Talked about Maria mill is being a deck for this format and that it being like the control that is that, are you guys going to see a lot of that this weekend?
Mike:Seems bad to me. Every deck crumbs for switch.
Brit:Maria. I would say my cargo, I would think is the better meal option right now.
Mike:I think it is like McCargo Marie.
Brent:Yeah, they play they play a thick McCargo line with the Murray and then they get the cards they want and then they just try to sleep you every turn.
Brit:I agree that it's the mill deck, but I think it would also agree that I'm not sold. Like I don't, I'm not worried about it. I'm usually worried about the top control deck. I just take that loss and move on.
Mike:Yeah. And I think ADP Z is, shoots back up to maybe the best deck or like top two best X because of just the introduction of crowbar makes it way more consistent. It's able to get the, one turn GX off with energy switch, even like against energy removal. It's going to get the GX attack off pretty consistently, pretty early, turn one, turn two. And that's really good against, controlled X cause you just take three knockouts and you went
Brit:Yeah, that too. I would think EDPC will be more popular than combo, but similarly I would I've thought the combo deck has been a big reason a mil controlled XO struggled because they kicked us out. Speed zation on its own can do it. Couldn't do it even without the combo ticket view, extra prizes. Like they say, sometimes you just get it on your first turn and. Don't miss a beat and it doesn't matter, even if you had all your crushing hammers and stuff.
Brent:so what's the play guys.
Brit:I feel like just because it turned on us because of it's going to be too expensive, it's, not a consideration, probably be more inclined to play something older. I imagine, spirit tomb, I don't know it as well as my key, but. if he's confident, I don't know why I wouldn't need to be confident about it too.
Mike:Yeah, my, so my only two hesitations with spirit tomb are if ADP Z is bigger, that could be annoying because if they're more, if they get a turn when GX attack off, go in second. You can never be 10 expert in the matchup is literally impossible.
Brit:I'm going to be testing with Colin this week, and I know he wants to play almost star decks to hell. And I really liked them too. Like I he's the only person I really personally tested with talk. I've talked to Mikey and that's about it. Yeah. So it's just, this is always so Colin and sometimes the two of our decks go, is that just no one plays decks, these decks other than Colin. And I'm like the only one who tests against them. And then no one will believe me that there are any good and stuff like that too. And but yeah, I think they got, he's more interested in the stove Turner. I'm not sure how to say it then IntelliJ on, which was the first draft. just cause electric is going to be fine still. I would because of pickable mostly too. It's just another electric threat. You have to worry about too.
Mike:What's it what's the internet is week two, so it is week defied in. Okay. So that is good too. So yeah, stone joinder is like a pretty decent card. I tested a little bit of straight stone. Droner like during the spring, I don't know. That seems like it's viable.
Brit:thought this too. I want to try failing again. it seems close. Like it seems close to being pretty good, I think. but perhaps not.
Brent:so how about you, Mike? is it spiritual or die?
Mike:I'm going to be testing spear tomb a lot. I'm going to be testing straight Vika, bold a lot. I've seen some in. There's a couple of different approaches. I think you could take with vehicle. I saw Japanese list that runs Geraci, I wasn't thinking of running drop initially, but I guess I'll try that. the list that I'm most interested in trying to it's just like heavy damage. So you're running like Ziggins, you're running scoop up nets, you're running super scoop ups, to get like Vika bolt back when it's damaged, you're running the. Electro charger. Is that what it's called? That gets electric powers back into your deck?
Brit:It's just like your shadow triad for lasers or something.
Mike:Yeah, exactly. So I'm just like thinking damage, let's quaking punch and hit him for a lot of damage, and run them. Elalana run, scoop up. so that, you're a little tanky, that might not be the best way to play it. I've also seen some lists with, Moonves, I believe is the stage one. You're like poison sleeps them when you evolve. and you can run the slumbering forest in that as well. That's where it's trying to. so those are like the three different versions. The draft version just doesn't run as many times because it, Takes up space. Jaci consistency takes up space. but yeah, so I'm most interested in trying to be likable try and spirit tomb. I haven't really looked at the set all that much, to be honest. I don't know if there's any other archetypes that come out of it, except obviously after nadis. the one thing to note though, is that if at Hernandez. Is not that popular. It might actually be, a better play than it would have been otherwise, to them just were
Brent:I'm sure you guys have always had the philosophy like, and part of the trick at a regional is quote unquote, you don't, you guys probably don't feel like you need to metagame the middle tables or the bottom tables. the top guys are probably going to have it,
Mike:Yeah.
Brent:if it really is the best deck and you're not ready to play against it, like when you play someone good, you'll be like, I have it right.
Brit:The last few, your honor calls. I wrote about this, but I, I felt like towards the end of my game, I was always doing just that I could figure out the middle tables, but the good players was just had me beat every tournament. I just, I would hear what they had decided to play and I would just be like, Yeah. I just I, they beat me this time, but I, I would do fine because I would have a good read on what the average player is doing still, but I would just. just another DVD when this weekend, another, that sort of thing too. That's just something to think about. It's hard to really hard to know sometimes.
Brent:Alright. so with respect to spirit, to him, I wanted to ask you guys so Danielle, to be a, posted a list on Twitter the other day, that was his take on spirits home. And I wanted to see if you guys had taken a look at that and had any sort of reaction. I felt like his hot take was that the Kobelco and GX is 100% necessary right now.
Mike:I talked to him a little bit about it before he posted that, it's pretty much my list minus and a plus mimic you and he dropped one card for Kybella. And so I like it in the sense that it's basically my list. It's running acro bikes. It's not running. I think. I think like running, trying to execute and evil told you X is bad. And so the fact that it doesn't have those cards automatically makes me think it's good, but the key value in GX is a very interesting, I haven't tested it out at all. but I am interested in trying it
Brent:what does the chameleon actually do?
Brit:I forget what it does it, I should know
Mike:It's GX attack. So it's GX attack us for our color list and your opponent can attack next term. So the idea is that you are trying to, just stop. Random turns at, in certain match-ups in particular, against drugs, you can iron rule GX and, take two turns of building up your spirit tomb so that you're not locked into needing to find like the combo of, jinx spirit, tomb, hustle, bell, all in one turn. But instead you can just set up free spirit tombs with damage on them. They can't attack for sure. Turn. And then you. Immediately take six prizes in two turns is a scent that was like the way that he first introduced it to me. But I do think it has utility in other ways as well, such as against baby blue. Cephalon sometimes you get in since it's really just a prize race of single pricers, often one of you, or both of you have to play down two prizes. Sometimes you'll find yourself like a one turn behind and you can go. Cavalli and GX, and then next turn, find the bosses order to bring up their Zetia and V or whatever to kill it. And jump ahead and the prize trade. I dunno. so that's a little bit of it. I haven't given it a try cause I haven't wanted to play Pokemon without darkness ablaze out yet. but I'll give it a try.
Brent:right. All right. Awesome guys. we've been going for a, an hour and 15 minutes. any parting thoughts before we declared victory for another week?
Mike:This just fun.
Brent:All right. reporting live from trench Lynch studios and another podcast in the books, guys.