yeah. Mike.
Brit:Mr. Champion.
Brent:Yeah. How have you been basking in your celebrity?
Mike:Yeah, try and I'm trying to not be too vain. These, these last couple of days,
Brent:Does, does Kelly appreciate that you did something good or is she just like, wow, it's taking a long, a lot longer to finish this tournament than other times.
Mike:Oh, definitely a mix of both. I was playing, like when I was playing in the finals. I was like, yes, like after I was done, I kind of like gave myself a fist bump and she like, didn't notice it all. She was like sitting right next to me on the couch and she like, like five minutes later, she's like, Oh, did you win
Brit:that's, that's funny that you didn't say anything necessarily. I would have been like, Hey, look, I know to win. I'm winning. This is my turn right now. I win like that. That would have been, I would have been nudging her the whole
Mike:Well, I did, actually, I guess that's not true because the situation I was describing, must've been like top four. Cause I did do like, did you guys watch me like fuck up in the finals?
Brit:get to watch any of the finals. I had to leave in the middle of top
Brent:Oh man. Mike, Mike tried to, he tried to mail it in and failed. He was too good to mail
Mike:Yeah, no, no. Okay. So that's what happened. Cause I was like, I told Kelly, I was like, Oh, I'm about to win. And then I like started messaging the guy that I was playing against. I had to go, I had to go boss tag bolt, but so I was messaging the guy. I was like, Oh, congrats on second. Good run. And then I forgot to boss first. So then I just tag bolted and, and I was 10 damage short for a knockout on the bench guy. I mean, I still like had the game a hundred percent of the time. I just had to boss the next turn, but it was still really funny.
Brent:That was, that was absolutely hilarious. I don't know. Did the zoo, the zoo record those streams? Are you able to go back and watch his commentary on, on top quarter finals
Mike:Yeah, I did. I,
Brit:I would think
Mike:I watched him yesterday. Yeah.
Brent:Did you, did you feel like, he accurately represented like. When, when he was like, cause I think there were several points where he was like, that's a missed play. That's a misplay that's a miss play. It was, was the Zul right about all those.
Mike:so it's something that I wanted to talk about a little bit. Yeah. I feel like some of the times he was right. Some of the times he was not right. And some of the times where like could have gone either way. but I think like the times that he was not necessarily right. maybe he just like, wasn't, like he didn't know my prize cards, for example. like as well as I did, like I went through and I marked them each time. So those. and then, I don't know. I could give like one example of each where I definitely, he was right. And one where I don't think he was right.
Brit:I want to play a Mewtwo deck and I'm just, I've been parsing through, you know, the arguments for which one? I just thought it would be a good conversation.
Mike:I just, yeah, that's, that's good. I just watched a Zulu power rankings for the week and he had some, there, like in that debate he has strong opinions. So I'll, I'll, I'll touch on that.
Brit:and Danny and so at a certain group of people, I can never tell when they interact specifically with each other when they're joking or not. So I saw it as well, posts some certain things about VDI F and stuff. And I dislike, I mean, I guess it's the zoo I'll believe what he says, but I just can't tell if this is a joke or not. The similarly high highs, they were with Ballou Vic, Vic volt. Taboola like, it was, they treated it as a joke, but it was clearly a good deck and stuff like that. And then like, you know, it's a bad deck until Alex Hilltop for, to regionals with it. And then it was a good deck and I wrote a six prizes article on it.
Brent:right. Right. All right, guys, let's jump in. Welcome to the podcast where attendance is always 100%. I'm Brynn Halliburton here with Mike crochet and Britt. Pybus Mike crochet champion of the world. we're super happy to be talking about Pokemon quick five-star view update. We both got two, five stars and we got two reviews. Let's talk about it for a second guys. Kirk T 99 says it's an STR pod better than being stamped to one and hitting boss for game. That's pretty good.
Mike:that's pretty
Brit:not an enjoyable feeling
Brent:Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we can ask for better than that. And Gabe Shumway says, I want to, I want to capture the, the Tyler great episodes. Excellent job with many of the recent podcasts, many of the Pokemon TCG related podcasts I've listened to in the past cover the game itself, but some of the recent topics that you all have covered help in and out of the game itself, as well as in the real world. It's also great to hear the various opinions on topics from three different people. And it's always great to listen to the podcast every week. Also congrats on the big win this weekend. Mike, those were some fun games we played this weekend. Did you have to give games to business this weekend, man?
Mike:well, so he beat me on day one and then I'd beat him day two, so we kind of split. but yeah, that's, that's a nice review. and I agree. I think it's nice that we're able to kinda have, like, our main focus is obviously the TCG, but, but we go off in different tangents that are, you know, semi-related and I think that's nice to have different conversations.
Brent:absolutely. And, and Gabe is a great player in his own right game. I, we respect and love you as well. so, so, it is, it's fantastic to get fantastic reviews from fantastic people, both Gabe and Kirk team 99. we appreciate the reviews. They help people find the pod, apparently because that's what every other podcast in the universe says. so, so you're, you're helping the world get access to better podcasting, which we appreciate better than getting the boss off a reset stamp. The one. let's, let's jump right in. I know we want to spend a lot of time talking about Mike's big victory, this past weekend, but we had a couple of other topics we want to talk about, and I think these are great topics. Let's talk about, Mumia for a second. Brett, you want to kick us off?
Brit:Yeah. So I don't quite recall where we left it last episode, but we had a good discussion on, you know, being a one deck player sort of thing. And, I, I just really like MuTu. I know that, it was really sort of creep back into popularity now that it's found a home just kind of as a splash and does a kind of pretty normal peak around list. but, even the, the welder version with Aurora energy, or maybe even horror energy, I just, I really, really liked the car and it's so versatile and has so many options. And of course that's kind of what mew has always done in the history of the game. It's sort of, you know, it's the versatile Pokemon and I just like having those options and to the point where I don't mind, like, I don't think it's either of them or. You know, it depends on how you cut the tears. I would tier one a plus a like it, depending on how you do it, I wouldn't call either of them a top tier deck, but they're both very, very high. And I think that, What you lose is what you have to trade for. Not being as good as say, ADP or eater not is those options. And that's just something I really enjoy having as a player. And again, maybe that's flawed. Maybe that's just really coming from my background with the game and where I want to prioritize something that used to be good. where now I should just prioritize. Winning ADP or something like that. But, I think it's an interesting discussion of which of these versions is better. So I'm talking specifically of, w I think we can put the peaker room with the splash of mew three and its own category. So really what I'm talking about here are the two Aurora energy builds the lightning version and the welder version. and I just wanted to see what you guys thought. I don't know, cause the. The lightning version is really relatively new. It didn't show up until players cup too, with toward, and, Pedro playing it. And Pedro has continued to have, quite a bit of success with the deck even did pretty well in, Mikey's tournament from over the weekend. I forget how many finished, but I, I recall seeing him, I think he went six one to day one, and I imagine he did pretty well. Day two, maybe top 16, top 32. but yeah, I haven't spent any time with the decade. I'm really busy for about another week. And then I'll hopefully be playing Pokemon again. But, yeah, I just don't know, at least in my head, the welder version, I think just strikes me as being a lot better. at the cost of consistency, I imagine taboo, cocoa bolt-on, things like that. Those are all just, do wonders for you in terms of just. Making the deck run. Well, like we said, last time a good deck is often one. That's very simple and with a bolt-on you just attach energies and then you attack and, you've accomplished what your goal, the goal of your deck. whereas the MuTu version is obviously reliant on welder. but in those games where you play the welder, I'm pretty sure it's the better deck. that's just kind of my current opinion. and we just wanted to see what you guys thought and may, you know, maybe there's some kind of a middle ground where you say like, well, you know, maybe the mew three version is better when you have two out of three, but not when you have best of one. Like, I think that's kind of where I'm at with it, but again, I just don't really have, I don't have any experience with. lightning MuTu and I, I just have not a peaker on player either, so I'm sure that will affect my ability to play it as well as my opinions.
Mike:so before I talk, well,
Brit:And I guess one other question is why, and again, this isn't, this shouldn't come off as positive or negative, but why hypothetically, why would you choose the Aurora? Mewtwo lightening version versus your deck. Mike, is there, is there a good argument to do that or as, should we just play your 60? Is that the best deck?
Mike:So, yeah. So let's start with that. cause at least, I think for me that's an easier question. I think, personally I think street personally, I think straight peaker, um, is a bit better than the MuTu deck. I feel like it's more consistent. The big contributor to that is that, you know, they're both playing the same amount of energies, but in regular speaker, um, Three or four of your energies draw you two cards. And in the MuTu, they don't do that. So like, even, even if everything else is the same, like you play the same amount of supporters play the same amount of Dennis, I think the mutual plays one more and it runs, Oh yeah. I think everyone's one more. Did any, I think that's the only difference in draw cards besides that, but like the, like the energy is actually, I think are quite significant. Like the speed lightning is pretty big. you're also just. You're it. And then like the rest of your spots. instead of having all like the tech me to attackers, basically go to crushing hammers and energy switches,
Brent:yeah, I was going to say, I think actually, cause, cause this is on my list of things to talk about. Between Pedro's list and your list was honestly cut the crushing hammer package and basically replaced it with cherish balls. So like with another data and three chairs balls, like it's not quite the same because you can only play one day per turn, but like it's not
Mike:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. but I would say the other kind of difference there is that the Mewtwo package, those cards, they're not, they're not just playable card, right? You can't just play a vile food GX. It has to like go into the discard. So like a crushing hammer. Sometimes you save them. and if people watch me on stream, you saw sometimes I would save them. But most of the time there. You just draw them and you play them. And that's, that's a really powerful thing that I didn't really think about too much. before I played this, the last couple of tournament's with peek around, is that just having playable cards and getting them out of your deck is a pretty significant, I think, for just keeping up the flow of your deck. so kind of like you were talking about you sacrifice with the Mutrie deck, you sacrifice. In my opinion, the slight amount of consistency. but you gain a lot of you gain a lot of options. and so I've only played the deck, maybe, I don't know, five to 10 times somewhere in that realm. and I do like playing it. It's, it's pretty fun. but I don't think it, like, it's not as linear as a peaker, um, deck is. And so. No. So you're not going for a full blitz turn to return three every single game. And I think that probably was affecting my results with it because I was I'm. I very much viewed it as this is peaker, um, with texts, but I think it's really, you got to look at it the other way around it as like this, the MuTu deck that sometimes goes to peak around rap. Right. and so I think if I went back to it, I'd have to approach it with that lens. And maybe I would do better. so I don't know. I think I do think they're more different than I initially thought. Now, going back to welder versus the lightning, I have always, like in theory really liked me to welder and then every time I play it, I'm like, man, this is why I don't play this deck. and I feel like you've sent some messages in our chat just about welder necks in general about, you know, not. Not starting welder and not drawing it in the first couple of turns. And it just feels so bad when that happens. I PR like, and I've tried it a couple of I've tried it various times. I tried it, last, like maybe a week and a half ago for a handful of games. I was like, I, I just can't do it. so I was watching, here's a plug for channel fireball. I watched, the power rankings that just came out yesterday. And he does basically a top 10 decks every week and he updates it based on different results and whatnot. And this week he had ADP as one new chew as to pick around his three, and then he had a bunch of other decks and he didn't even. He didn't have a 10th deck. He only had nine decks and U2 wealth. There was not even on the top nine. So he refused to even put it as it. And that he was like, this deck is so bad. I don't know why anybody plays it. so I thought that was pretty funny, especially considering he had so much success with it, you know, a year and a half ago. I think didn't, he went to regional with me to welder last year. so it's funny to see that a difference in.
Brit:I mean, not trust his rules opinion over mine any day of the week. And I really can't imagine that there's, there's really not. There's nine decks that are better than it. I genuinely think it's better than sent a scorch.
Brent:Why is it better than set a
Brit:I think it's the S it's the same deck. I just, I think most of, most of what applies to MuTu welder applies to send us for each in that like, you need welder. you do have obviously have like Volcani and, and things like that. So you're not always as relying on the welder, but I just think it's clunkier. Whereas with the MuTu deck, you just kind of go, you dig really, really hard for welder. Every turn that means you might play for the DNA. In a single game. and your, your bench is cluttered a lot of the time, too. Like for that very reason, you just have to, you have to dig as hard as you can for the welders. and the same is true of send a scorch, but they don't have as many. They can't just, they can't dig as heavily nor can they afford to discard a certain amount of cards. And then two, like we said, it's not just that they need energy and welder. They also need to evolve. They also have just kind of other. Things, I wouldn't say going against them, but I just think the MuTu version has more options. And especially as we're seeing now, I'd be interested to do a deeper look at the statistics, but at least from my very loose glamps to scrolling through Twitter here and there, it seems like Pika rom has a really good set of scorch matchup. I very rarely see sent us courts beating peaker on at least in bigger matches later on in the tournament and things like that. And I definitely think that Mike, his version of peek around is definitely better than Aurora MuTu welder. but I don't mind playing that matchup. It's, it's a fine match up. there's not a lot, the peaker on player can do if you draw well, you just blow them up, you do 300, and then they can't and then your last prizes around it usually pretty easy. I forget how it usually goes, but you just, you just have a lot of kind of ways to get to that 300. You could. restaurants art or the Charles R GX. And then you have maybe surf fetched comes in at a certain point, some games too. You blow a Bolton, turn one with, the GX attack without the bonus from Russia's art and things like that. yeah, I guess kind of to return to that. My initial question, one that I think is maybe a little more pressing to me less. So considering. The normal peaker arm and more and more back to just comparing the two decks is that I don't know why I would play the lightning version over the fire version other than consistency. I think that the options that welder gives you are just better. It enables things like, the chars ARDS are both very good, particularly the GX or not the GX, but the one that evolves, And then you ha you have, it gives you access to Negan, Adele, which is very important. yeah, cause really, it just feels like the lightening version. At least to me, I just don't know why you need those texts. You, you sacrifice a lot to like maybe attack with file plumes sometimes, maybe attack with surf fetched. Sometimes it doesn't seem enough. Whereas the fire version just seems a little more, In tune with the kind of design philosophy of MuTu, it feels like it's the way that MuTu is meant to be played. Whereas I wonder if the lightening version isn't kind of just like these cards are all really good, we've mashed them together, but maybe that's, but maybe that assessment isn't could be set of either deck.
Mike:I mean.
Brit:but yeah, let's just my general position and, I think part of it too, not to, steal any of Mikey's thunder, but after, you know, last week I was complaining, I hadn't done well. I finally got a top aid. I taught aided. We both taught, hated the, the Thanksgiving one or the one that I was on that Wednesday. And I had, I had really good games. I mean, maybe your deck. Isn't good if you know, I, whenever a game that I draw, well, maybe you should be able to win the games when you don't draw well, too. But, yeah, that was just sort of my day. I, I, I went five in one and I lost a sentence scorch and top eight and just like a whiffed of poker gear that would have won me the series. and that was just about it.
Brent:What tech did you play?
Brit:the Aurora MuTu, that's the only deck I've really played recently. I tried blinds last night for the Hexter. it lasted about three rounds. I did there. My one win actually was someone who net deck to Mikey. I lost it. Two other players, not net taking Mikey.
Mike:That's funny.
Brit:but yeah, is bounced to me also. This was something else we don't need to get into a bit, as I was playing, I was just like, is blends just a worse. Slash maybe better Clady P it just feels like you don't do anything. You just, you draw and in hope, hope you draw, draw again, draw the good cards again when you've been disrupted, but there's just no, there's no counter player or anything like that. And it's just like, And then, you know, that question, like we've been talking about here. I was just thinking to myself, why would I play this over clay DP? They just both feel very similar in terms of kind of the control they afford you and things like that. And in my games last night, I won the game when I wasn't disrupted. And then the next few games I just stamped me and Marty me every turn and I lost, I lost one game that I was so ahead for so long and it was incredibly frustrating. The other one was a bit closer.
Mike:So one, one comment going back to, the new welder. when I played game this weekend, we had some, some really good games. The one. Card, but he played that I thought was really interesting that I haven't seen other people play, his jolty on GX. And so at that does, and I asked him after why he played it and he said, it's GX attack is lightning colorless 110, and then it can't be hit next turn by anything. and so obviously you can boss around that, but basically he said it's really, really good against the BMX decks because. E one, 10 plus two 30 on, from Russia's ARD is three 40. So you're two shotting, every single BEMAX including alternatives, and it basically protects your MuTu. So even if they boss around it and kill it to Prizer, you don't really care that much. because you're still gonna force them to either kill to mute twos or at the very least W2 that has all the energy on it. and I thought that was a really cool, interesting addition, that maybe you could look into Brit.
Brent:And with all these, all these, both, both the mew lightening build and the peek around build, like, they're, they're playing this, like for Marnie to stand package. Like if you need them and they have to find a boss's order to like, play around it, like you're putting pressure on them to find stuff, right? best case for them is they're gonna have to dig like crazy to find the card they need just to attack something. That's pretty good.
Mike:Yeah.
Brent:All right. Let's talk about, let's talk about the current format for a second, where it was. This was this your idea to talk about is the current format. Good.
Brit:Yeah, I was just a thought I have like, it seems like, you know, the, what the. The, the set of top decks and it's pretty defined, but of them, it varies by week, you know, the metagame shifts pretty quickly and, people play the right things at the right times. And you know, then that deck is suddenly the best deck. And we seem to kind of be in a kind of cycle of that like, Sonos quarter was really good a couple of weeks ago and it doesn't seem so hot anymore. He turned out as occasionally wins. I don't like, I feel like every time. I think to myself, man, I haven't seen ADP winning event wins the heck stairs or the big tournament of the day. so it it's sort of, smuggled in there sometimes too, but it just seems like, and I saw a tweet from, Danny. I can't remember who the thread, it might've been, Luke Morris or someone again. And just like a lot of, most of your match-ups are 45, 55 somewhere around there. Like regardless of what the best deck is. There's so many close match-ups, and I'm at least willing to, offer that. I think the format is good with the caveat that it isn't fun.
Mike:That's a good distinction.
Brit:I think, I think that will be a pretty agreeable position in that. depending on what we define, what constitutes is good, what we consider a good format or a bad format. And I think that's, you know, something you could spend hours talking about. Stefan had that polka beach article, not too long about it. That was really good. Just on that very question. and yeah, and so just really, I think it depends on our presuppositions and definitions and things like that, but I. If a good format is one. If we define a good format as one where multiple decks have a good, like, relatively equal opportunity, I think that it'd be a good format. And again, I'm not, I'm not sure everyone's a little different people. Some people seem to want to game some people, like I've said a number of times now just really subconsciously want to be playing chess and they just don't know it yet. But, yeah, that's just what I'm going to say, but, you know, I don't know how enjoyable it is. And like we've said before, many of the match-ups are just solitary, you just sequence once and then cross your fingers to make it through stamps and Marnie's and things like that. But that's the opinion I've settled on. Maybe someone will crack or beetle or colossal or something, but at least where we are now currently a couple of weeks into vivid voltage. I don't hate where things are. I think there's a lot of viable decks. Many of them aren't winning events necessarily either. I saw. last night and the heck stairs. I think he made top eight Gustavo water. I was playing a very, very interesting decidual I list, that I would like to spend some time with. Yeah. But I mean, that's, that's just my point. If these top decks are close and then people are occasionally cracking some low tier decks with texts, like bronze zone and Snorlax. And what have you like seems pretty, pretty okay. To me at the very least. What do you guys think?
Brent:you know, I, I saw Gustavo's list also. I immediately sent it to Liam and, you gotta give him credit. Like, I think he was like, Oh, everyone's gonna play Pika rom, you know, I should play a DESA goats. Good luck. That's like a, that's probably the sign of like a Metta that's in an okay place. I, you know, for reasons I can't fully explain, Liam has decided to start playing some Pokemon in the last, like 24 hours. And he was talking about, right now he's in the, let me build a variety of bed decks stage. And, you know, I was trying to talk with him about the decks that he needed to think about. And I was like, You know, Oh, the it's like a, you know, three different decks. You got to think about that as a guy, you know, I was like for next, you gotta think about, ah, you know, it's like five decks. You gotta think about it. Like, I think five was where I kind of got to. Right. It's like LMC, ADP, baby Blount sent a scorch peek around and I guess you gotta like mute too in there too. Right. But like, so that's six. Like that sounds like a healthy metagame. I think if you said, you know, it's like, Those like there's six decks that we'll all have more than like kind of 10% of the share. That was pretty good. I don't think most of the tournaments are like that. Maybe. I don't know,
Mike:Yeah.
Brent:but I agree. It's not, it's not super fun. There's a lot of decks and I would even, I think, although you guys are closer to the problem than me, I think I'd put LMC in this category here. There's a lot of decks that are not interactive. Like they're just sequencing, as you said that like the ADP games. you know, like, yeah, you're just trying to end them so fast. It's like, doesn't seem super fun. Although it plays to my strengths, Mike, what are you thinking?
Mike:Yeah, I don't really have too much to add. I think you guys are right. That it is at least fairly diverse. there's not, I do think there's still the ADP problem in the sense that, you know, there's not really a chance for a lot of decks to, you know, Oh, there's not, there's not a chance for some decks to even be considered because they'll never, ever, ever beat. ADP. but I do wonder if that might even be the case, even if ADP wasn't in the format and you know, maybe those decks wouldn't ever really be able to beat something like it's hard to test and we would kind of be in the same situation. I, I'm not sure. but. I think that that aspect and the crushing hammer aspect are really the two most un-fun things about the format. Luckily it seems like really only peaker rom is rocking crushing hammers now. and these consistently, it seems like other decks have mostly forgotten them, which seems correct to me. I think peek around can play them because. It is so consistent and straightforward and, and whatnot. and other decks just can't really afford to do that. So luckily that's done for the most part, but yeah, I, I do think it is healthy. If you define it in the way that you defined it, Brit.
Brent:And, you know, I, I, one of the things that I was thinking about as I was like prepping for this week's pod is, kind of in contrast to Brit's comments about mew. I wonder how much, like Pedro success a week ago. With, you know, Aurora energies was kind of a function of crushing hammers were out of the format and the more people are playing Pico rom and playing the Ford hammer build and net decking Mikey's list. The more like, sad immune players are gonna be because like once he gets those, I mean, maybe the moral story is the welder bill is the correct bill. Cause like once those are energies have gone, like, Oh, that's all not going to happen.
Brit:Yeah, I was actually about to say just that it was a point I missed in our previous discussion in that, crushing gamers are really pretty good against, lightening decks. It's a little different now that. People have shifted to leading with Bolton kind of as the focus of the deck, whereas in the past, you maybe played one and sometimes went into it, but in those games where you got like a turn one full blitz, you know, a pretty nutty Coco energy switch kind of plays, then you're out of acceleration almost immediately. And so you just, you can get hammered and stuff from there. Whereas the welder option, you're always, relatively resilient to it. And. Just your attacks kind of costs less energy sometimes. Whereas the lightening deck almost always wants three plus energy. So when you're, you're getting hammered after using your Excel, you just sort of only can manual attach. Whereas in YouTube, regardless of the board state, as always, maybe you're going to be able to attach three energy in a turn, and then that's just another thing that I have going for it. But,
Brent:I, I definitely thought, in, the, out rounds, on Saturday, Mike was the beneficiary of like some favorable hammers variants.
Brit:was, that was an interesting question. I wanted to ask Mikey too. maybe we can just segue into discussing his 60 now. was that if he thought he sort of had cracked the code, if this 60, was it, or if do you think you, you caught the meta-game at the right time? Because I think I noticed kind of one of the main differences of the weekend. between your list and others was, the one YouTube versus two, where I'll be interested to hear your opinion on that. But the main thing I noticed was just the big charm and, You know, cat big terms are kind of in and out of the game too, just like crushing hammers sometimes. and maybe you just caught the meta game without tool scrappers. People don't seem to care about that card as much as they did maybe a month or two ago. whereas, you know, we've talked on the podcast multiple times, like I'm playing two scrapper this weekend and ADP, and that's just not the case anymore. And that was something I was thinking about too, is wondering if. ADP, maybe a turnout is if they have, if they can adjust to this peaker on deck and maybe play big terms of their own, again, play the play more tool scrappers or something like that. Did you catch the meta game at the right time or is this just kind of objectively the best list?
Mike:Well, so first of all, you know, probably 55, 50, six of the cards have been around for a long time. So I don't want to take too much credit, like as a rule and whatnot really popularized this variant, whatever a couple months ago. but yeah, I think some of the, you know, filling in those last couple of spots, it's probably not objectively the best, I think it was probably the right cause for this time and this meta, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being, you know, somewhat, relatively close to the optimal. but so a couple of specifics I do, I would be very surprised if two MuTu is better than one MuTu, one me-too felt, very sufficient. I don't know who originally started putting in one or two. And the bigger I'm less. But my, my assumption is that it was first put in to help combat the threat of colossal, and just giving you an out again. And that, and I, I have played against a couple of colossal, not this weekend, but I do think the matchup is fine with the one U2. I don't think you need to YouTube for that matchup, but really the, the reason MuTu is really nice in the deck is, it. It makes the post. So for a couple reasons, one, it makes you less relying on big charm, which I'll get to in a second, because in match-ups like ADP Z, you really do want to go with the MuTu instead of peaker. so that if they do play scrapper, then you're still not getting one shot by the association. so MuTu is really good in ADP matchup. It's good in the alternatives match up with the big charm because now you can full blitz. with a big charm on it and maybe not get one shot back by the attorney tests. so just in general, the extra HP, I think is a really nice addition to the deck. and then obviously it just gives you the flexibility throughout the game, to either use the right to attack or use, pick and choose attacks. so I'm, I'm very confident that one MuTu is correct. I don't think I'd ever want to, Big charm. I had to Brent, you, you catalog catalog this. I think I had two earlier in the week. Does that sound right?
Brent:Yes, I, we, we are going to grind through this man. I have like so much stuff.
Mike:but I think one is fine somewhat for the reasons that you brought up, right? Like it's, it's one of the weaker cards in the deck. I could see running zero. but it is nice to throw on a peaker on. in certain match-ups, it's nice to throw on the MuTu and certain match-ups, it's nice to throw on a Denny, or a Crow bat against something like Kramer, ant or ADP. so it's not a bad card. It wasn't super great. Oh, it's actually quite good in the mirror actually. because you can put it on a peaker arm and then your peaker on can't be one shot by the ride, choose GX attack. so it's good in that situation. So there are like lots of little situations where it is really nice to have, But it, when I was playing too, it felt like it, I was just drawing it. And sometimes you don't really have a place that you really want to put it and you want to actually not attach it tool because you want to save. The option of air balloon. At some point, maybe you, you know, an early turns, you're going to want to go into Bolton. So if you have big charm in your opening hand, you don't really want to play it because you want an air balloon and retreat to Bolton. So with too, I feel like you just are clogging your hands a little too much. so one feels really nice. I doubt out, I could see going back up to two, depending on the Metta. And I could see going down to zero depending on the Metta, but one felt pretty nice. So, those are two of the things you mentioned, but we can go into more later.
Brit:is there, I guess something I'm wondering too, as I, at least I was under the impression that. the Aurora version of aside, the main reason to splash from you to, as to hedge against coal loss. Well, I guess, do you think it's it's needed now that at least for the moment that co also doesn't seem capable of doing all that much? it sounds, it sounds like the answer is yes, but I'm just curious,
Mike:Yeah. Yeah. So I do think that was the original intention of it, but after playing with it, I think it's definitely worth playing regardless, even if cost, but it's actually funny. It probably should have been in the list for like the last year. Right. And, and nobody really ever realized it. Maybe not the last year, but for sure since eternity has came out, cause it's actually like, it's really, really good against the turn of tests. like I said, it gives you the option of full blitzing with a big germ and not being too scared of dying, but also it gives you a second ride to essentially in the matchup, which is also like super big, because a lot of times your wind condition just comes down to, paralyzing them and stamping them and whatnot. So, you know, Basically having access to, to ride shoes is very, very good in that matchup.
Brent:All right. All right. Are you ready for me to grind through this? I have like so many notes. So here we go. So, so this is, I went back through like all the results and like tried to like build a chronological history of the things that Mike was up to last week. So. Last Sunday, you go one, three drop with Blount at the limitless tournament. And, Pedro wins it with lightening MuTu. And what you take away from that is you should become a peek around me. Like why not play Pedro's list? Like we talked about this a little bit, but, but like the conclusion was peak ROMs. Just better. You try them both. And.
Mike:Wow. So, earlier, if earlier than that, there, there was some tournament maybe a week before that maybe five days before that, where I did play a lightening MuTu, just, you know, trying it out kind of like a Brit was sampling different decks, and I thought it was fine, but, I think as I mentioned earlier, it just, didn't occur to me to play it more like a Mewtwo deck rather than a peek around deck. So I didn't. Maybe I wasn't playing it. Right. So I, I guess I was just kind of working my way through, through the decks and I had already checked that one off the list. And so peek around was next.
Brent:Gotcha. All right. So, so you pick up peek around and you go two, three drop at Hexter. And the difference between your list, the list that you played and, and the Alicia played at Hexter, the Hexter list had a second mew. Eliane a second big charm, another energy switch, another, a radar. and a second swell and you cut all that. You ended up cutting all that stuff for the yellow grunt, the hammers and a cherished ball, is, is the moral of the story. Like, so, so it seems like just all that other stuff, you just cut everything for the hammer package. Now that could be because the guy that won Hexter essentially, he played the list that you played on Sunday or on Saturday. But he only played three Marnie and he didn't play the L grind and he played two extra cherish while. So he was playing the hammer, the package. Why, why go to the hammer packages? Is that because you looked at the winner and you said, I like that.
Mike:No. So originally I was thinking when I was not playing hammers, I was thinking of Kevin Clemente's less from the players cup. and how he said that he didn't, he didn't play hammers. And he said he didn't think he had, you had to and whatnot. So it was like, Oh, I'm going to try this. And just kind of play like, quote unquote good cards in their spot. but. I don't remember my matchups from that day, but I do remember kind of coming away from that tournament being like ADP a lot harder without hammers. And it turned, it is a lot harder without hammers and those are both really good decks. and I have, okay. Match-ups against all the other decks. So why am I playing all these other cards to just have. You know, essentially better match ups against the things I am already good against rather than playing cards that helped me beat the decks that I'm bad against. And, I think that was pretty much why I was like, okay, crushing hammers and y'all ground makes sense.
Brent:Gotcha. Gotcha. And the Draven Davis also played at that tournament. He played ADP. So like the next day he wins the E and D tournament with peek around lists, but he only plays one mew. He just like a, the Hexter tournament. The prior day with LM played just the three Marnie's. He didn't have the yellow grunt. He had four energy switches, another cherish ball. He played the two big charms and they only played one air balloon. And you played peek around there and the only difference you would five and two. And the only difference was you hadn't put the yell grunt in, but you were still playing the second big charm. So what, what made you say it sounded get rid of this? So you've talked, I think you've talked about why you didn't like the second big charm. What made you say it's time to put a yell grunt in instead.
Mike:so I, I, I think I didn't have the algorithm in initially, cause I had seen like all the vivid, all the vivid voltage lists kind of not playing y'all grants, people were trying. These I saw people playing, playing Leon, so I guess everyone had dropped it. So I was just like, what, why would I play it? And then I thought about it more. I was like, wait, why did people drop it? Like, it's just a good card. it goes along with the, you know, the strategy of playing the hammers and whatnot. And again, it's going to help my, the match-ups that I'm the worst against. So, I dunno, just made sense to like go back to, Back to basics, I guess.
Brit:How, I always see, you know, the yellow grunt has been a staple really for a long time now, but it really feels like a fairly arbitrary one. How, how committed do you think that deck slot is? You always play yell, grunt that could maybe be something else. What about even like playing three crushing hammer or something? You know, I, I, I, I don't think I've played picker on because I just, I don't like playing mirrors particularly right now where I know I'm not going to. Play them as well as, you know, the better players, particularly ones who've played Pikachu or something for a long time. So I think that's always why I never quite pick the best deck. but, but you can always talk me into playing the best deck. If, if you give me a little wiggle room for goofy cards and things like that. So that's just one. I was eyeing, like I know I liked the card and also many of my weird decks. Play at all. In fact they often play two or three, so I actually really love the card. but yeah, it doesn't feel necessary to be sure. is that, is that one of those 55 56 cards? That's just a lock or could you maybe flex it for a more matchup dependent card?
Mike:I think
Brit:know, let's say, say it turned artist is not popular or something that card stock seems to go down tremendously.
Mike:I think it's definitely flexible. There's like, it's a weird guard in the sense that there's not, I mean, there's like obviously specific times where it's strong, but since you only play the one of like, you're kind of just dependent on when you draw it. And if it's like a decent play at the time that you have it. so yeah, I dunno, it gets fine. Like you also have the LD guy, so like, There have been times where I've played it, like against the attorney tests, for example, like if it's obviously, if you, if you happen to find it early on, it's very strong to go, you know, play it on turn to, and then Elle to Gosford on turn three and play it again. Like that's extremely strong. but it's, it's, it's definitely a flex spot. I like it, but it's a flex spot.
Brent:All right. All right. So now we get to, this past weekend, in the big thing that I had was, so I had Gabriel Smart's list and his list was, he had cut all the big charms. He had cut one of the air balloons. And he went second MewMew cherished ball, second swell. And he cut one of the professor's research. So his list was three cards off yours to get, I mean, essentially like no charm, no balloon swell and a second does that affect the mirror? Like if he had gotten to the finals, but you've had the same outcome you did, like, what do you think about those deviation lists? Like obviously he had really good results. I think he beat you once in Swiss and then you guys Aidid on day two and then you got, and then you guys played in top four.
Mike:We didn't play day one of Swiss, but yeah, we ID day two and then yeah, so, so, second swell is really nice that I think if I was going to play a 61st card, second, 12 would probably just be it, to really 12 was really good. so I think that's fine change, like I've already talked about. I don't think second MuTu is very good. I don't like dropping the second air balloon. I think they're like, you're S you really, really want it that turn on a Bolton. So like having that extra out is really nice. I think, like I said, dropping big trauma is fine, but I do think the big charm did play, apart in at least one of our games, by when I big trying to pick her arm and you didn't have the option then of right. Chewing it, with the lightening rod GX to knock it out. So. I think I was, you know, ever so slightly favored in the mirror because I played the big term. but the other, the other change, I don't really get not playing for research for Marnie. Like that's, that seems like a no brainer to me that I would con personally I would consider core. like why would you not play those cards? Like those cards, like you want to play for research because it's the best draw card.
Brent:Yeah, he had essentially cut the research for a, for a chip for another cherish
Mike:Yeah, right. But you only played two to Denny, right? So like, I don't know that doesn't make much sense to me because I'm like, there's some games that you either, there's lots of games where you either start or prize the day. And so then you only have access to one throughout the game that happens. At least, I don't know, I'd have to do the math, but my guess would be around 10% of the time that happens. One of those situation happens,
Brent:I mean by definition, 10% of the time you prize one, right.
Mike:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Cause he played too.
Brent:Six cards, right?
Mike:So, so like there's lots of games where you're only able to play one to, so playing the extra out to the DNA without, with only playing to like, if you were playing three, didn't it? I think that totally makes sense, but I'll only playing two. I don't really think it makes sense. Like you want to play for Marty. Cause you're like, you're an aggressive deck, but you're also running this heavy disruption package with Marnie's and hammers and stamps. So like playing for Marnie seems like a no brainer. Playing for research seems like a no brainer to me. So I feel a lot of lists only running three of one of those. And that does not make any sense to me.
Brit:I see that. And those are my exact thoughts every time. I'm glad you said something. Cause I I've seen that so many times now and it's just like, why
Mike:Those are the best cards in your deck.
Brent:Yeah. And, like, like watching you Marnie early game to like, you know, hand disrupt them after they played, you know, after they Intrepid sword or something like that. And then like late game stamp and then research to just dig for stuff. It seems like. Like both of those are such powerful combinations. Why would you ever not want to do that? Like, you always want to do that.
Mike:Yeah. Yeah. Marnie that like, if you're able to Marnie, like the first, even to turn to the game, like you are, it's such a huge advantage in almost every matchup.
Brent:Yeah. And you're like conserving your stamps and researches every time you do that, as opposed to like, feeling like you have to burn them early, like so good. Yeah. So, so you want to talk, you want to talk a little about any of the games that I have some questions about the top four in the finals game. Are there other games that you played? I don't know what else was streamed. I only saw those,
Mike:So, yeah, they only stream the topic at games. Yeah, I'll just, I don't, I'll look through my list as I'm saying this, if I can think of any notable games, but I will just kind of tell you the, my game totals against all the different decks, cause I not going through each match, but I do think that's interesting. So I went six and two versus ADP on six and over sentence Gorge. So Brett, you said before that you think Pico is very good against it. I agree. I played three and I just to have them all fairly easily. I went to two against bland for one against MuTu. So I feel pretty good against that matchup five, two against me too. Well there, but that may have tripped seems closer than that. I went to won against the mirror and top four, and then I, I bleeding as the hydration dark box. That was. Scary for one of the games until I realized he played no switch. So then I just, paralyzed him and won the game. but yet all of these seem pretty indicative of how I perceive the natural, except the need to welder, which I think is quite close. The ADPD is, are also pretty close to going six, two against that, was pretty nice.
Brent:So is there, is there a strategy that like people, that, that are all like net decking, the heck out of the EU right now should, should be thinking about when they go against ADP?
Mike:I mean, not really like, obviously like hitting hammers is really good. That's not really a strategy though. the one thing I will say is like,
Brent:Flipping heads is the best strategy in both of mine. What does that mean? Let's be real.
Mike:don't so, so I can think of a couple of small things. don't needlessly play down the DNAs and Crow bats. if you can, if you can, like if you can attack with Bolton or full blitz or whatever, without having to play those, that is the best, because if you can avoid them, ultimate reign, one of those for three prizes, then you're in really nice shape. I had something else too. Oh. deciding if you go first or second, I think is a really interesting dilemma against ADP Z and it's really dependent on their list. If they are running a very like turbo list with, for energy switch and just very consistent, I feel like you want to go second against them because, you know, if they're running a more turbo list, it's, you know, somewhat fit. Even if it's 50% that they get the turn one GX attack. You're really, really behind. If you go first and then they turned to GX or turn one GX, sorry. so you really want to go, second, it pretty much guarantees them the turn to GX, but at least hopefully you have Bolton. And then can like go from there. If they're running, you know, like a little bit more, tucked out list as some lists are, I played against the guy from Japan that top aided and he was running like a bunch of random stuff. Like he ran, a lotta QNE Hoopa. He ran a reset stamp. I think you only run three switch. So I just felt like his list wasn't quite as turbo. So I chose to go first against him, like with the knowledge that it's. More unlikely that he gets that turn one, GX tech going go in second. So I think that's just something to look out for and the open list format that, that can help you. yeah, don't not, none of the matches in Swiss were like, you know, really jumped out at me that the ones against Cape Shumway, where, as I mentioned, they were really good. Both, both sets. I lost the first day one, like I w he won two and I lost. He won two and I won one. There you go. I, I don't think I played particularly great and that series, or just sort of like the last round. So I was pretty tired. I will say there in the second day, there was a really interesting scenario that I'd thought about, but I just never thought it would actually come up where I didn't have him. He, he had, basically alone MuTu. He had stuff on the bench, but really just one Mewtwo with energy is attacking and I was able to draw into. Hey, my Mewtwo that wasn't on my bench and go cocoa to it, Eastwood East, which, or no attack East with each switch. and then full bulletin for like out of nowhere. So like I thought about that, situation of getting a MuTu powered up at a knower to one shot, but I just didn't think it would actually happen. And it did. And he was like, Oh, I didn't think he was like, I didn't even consider that play.
Brent:Right, right. Nice. So let's talk about, let's talk about the top four. You played the mirror and in both those games Coco's prize, right?
Mike:both. Well, two to three. Yeah. Two or three. It was pressed. Okay.
Brent:So, so, how do you think about like, are there tricks to winning the mirror if everybody's just going to net deck you and it's just mirror for days now?
Mike:Yeah. So I, well, I learned, I, I haven't really played the mirror before. Top four. So, I, like, I played the MuTu matchup a little bit, which is kind of like a mirror. And so I learned some stuff playing that, and I also learned some stuff from the top for matchup, but I, so a couple of things definitely want to go second for sure. You want to go second? cause you want to Bolton, but after you do that, it it's kind of weird in it. And the Zulu mentioned this in. I think the top eight match-up. Cause I didn't really think about this until after my toppy matchup hitting into. So if you let's say I go second, I electrified and I said, it might be around. Then they go. Maybe they just electrify with their own voltage. Now they have a bolt inactive. So I have an option. Now I can leave my bolt inactive in either electrify again, I can use Bolton's second attack to do some damage or I can go into my peak ramen full-blood So I think generally the best strategy, if you don't have a buck. So the, so the best strategy is if you have a boss, you go boss their peek around and hit it with booklets. That's like the best. But if you don't have the boss available, electrifying again is actually probably the best idea. So you electrify maybe again to the peek around maybe to a right. You maybe to a mute, to, Really, because then what happens is if they go into their peaker, and they full blitz your Bolton, it's, it's fine, right? If that's it, the 150 on the Bolton, basically doesn't matter. And so by, by setting up your own electrify again, now you can one shot their bolt in the next turn. If they keep it active, if they do bring up their peaker arm, you can hit it with your Bolton. So essentially all of this is to say, You're trying to force them to kill a Bolton and then a three Prizer and then stamped them to one and then make them kill another free Buster. That's really like the general strategy of the mirror. And so you got to think about it really early on does damaging this bolt-in re like their starting Bolton. Does it make any difference? and I think usually the answer is no. I got. Kind of lucky earlier on, I think it was in toppy. Like I, I made a play. I didn't have a peaker on to electrify to on turn one. So I electrified to a ride. You and I just went into ride two and turn tuned at 162, the Bolton and paralyzed it, which wasn't a terrible play. but I think it was correct to just electrify, again into a, to a peak around. it's not a, it wasn't a terrible play because he had already burned a switch and, forcing them to like use switches throughout the game, I think is actually pretty strong because it makes your chance of being able to stamp paralyze them later. Quite good. So I don't think it was a terrible play, but, yeah, it is something that I kind of learned and thought about more after that game that, maybe you just electrified twice in the mirror and that's totally fine. So that's. That's one of the main strategies in here. I think.
Brent:I mean, I know we've been talking for weeks on the thought about how like, You know, Oh, they played two bolts and zone that made the match up really hard. Like I think one of the things that surprised me as I've watched, as I like watched you play all these games over the weekend and played some games on my own is like, just how good Bolton is as a starter at like, you know, you see why some players are playing like four Boltons now, like when you get off that electrify and you have the option to like, you're powering up an attacker and it's making your Bolton more powerful as an attacker. Like, it just puts a lot of pressure on a guy to find a boss and poke like really high HitPoint stuff on your bench instead of hitting into the Bolton and like that limits their options when they feel like the only thing they can do is like, they, they feel like they have to boss to try to take you out of your game. Otherwise you're just going to like attach a second energy as Bolton and start smashing them for huge damage. And, you know, as you that you're, you're playing this like price trade game. The second you start doing that, like, so, So disruptive to the other players, like super linear strategy.
Mike:Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's true. And like, if you get two electrifies off or electrify and then a full blitz, like you're getting close to enough energy that Bolton one shots. Tag teams. And so, you know, that's, that is, that is something else to really consider in the mirrors and, and kind of going back to Brent, you mentioned how the hammers are actually pretty good against lightning decks. that's like the most important factor in the mirror when you had a crushing hammerheads, is did I delay them one turn of being able to one shot of tag team and like the answer is. Often yes, with that, like you can often like, just get enough and like one hammer sent you back and you're not able to then, yeah, so it was pretty big.
Brent:finals versus a baby blowouts you prized speakable, Naples trash. So, so it sounds like, it sounds like baby blondes was one of the decks that you struggled with. Over the course of the tournament, like, they have a slightly better picture on match. If you want to talk a little about how you seeing that work and how present vehicles nonstop felt.
Mike:So. Well, so let me, let me talk about the second game first, because that one was my opponent tree really bad, but there was so, so I got a chance to go back and watch the VODs and listen to as a rules commentary, which was super, super useful to me. and there was a handful of things that. I totally agree that I made a mistake on. and there's some things that I think are like, could go either way. maybe, maybe he was right. Maybe not. and then I think there was some things that I do think that I got right. That he didn't. And so one of them was in the game, two of the finals. So I forget exactly how the first two, like one or two turns went, but basically, I got in a situation where I had electrified. From my bolt in, onto a peek around my finger on head to energy on it by Bolton had one energy on it. My hand was boss' boss yell, grunt, dead hand pretty much, but my opponent only had a Geraci and a blouse on the bench with two energies. He had just welder to introduce to the blend. and I had an energy in my hand, so I attached it to the light. So I have a couple options I can just electrify again. I can attach to peak rom and full blitz. And knock out Geraci I can full blitz and knock out Blount using boss. I can use Bolton and knock out either one as well. So a couple of different options, but I have a dead hand otherwise. So, Well, my opponent really hasn't done anything. They have like three or four cards in their hand. They have this druggie, they just welded the bland. and so what I opted to do is I opted to yell ground the fire energy away and electrify again, to my peak around. now my reasoning for this is that let's say that I attached to Bolton and Oh, actually I couldn't have gone into Pegram. I didn't have a retreating option. So it was either a tack with Bolton or not.
Brent:It was, it was knock out the Geraci or don't right.
Mike:Yeah. Well,
Brent:Or, or knock out the
Mike:right. But I had to do with Bolton. I couldn't do it. so I, yeah, so I opted to yell grant. And so the reason for this is, to yogurt and then electrify onto my pick around. So if I just Kao there either one of them, and then I get towed back then I have, if I don't hit something off my prize or my top deck, I'm dead. I don't, I don't have anything left. My opponent. Hasn't done anything, but. You know, Koa and something gives them the option to aura CoreOS. So you always really gotta be cognizant of that against baby blends. so by yell grunting, I forced them to have another welder because now they only have one energy on their bladder. So it forces them to have another welder, which is, you know, not a given when you only play four and you have a very small hand. and even if they do have the welder. And they do knock me out. Now I have another attacker. My peak around is now powered up and I can attack back. And now they're down two welders already. Andy. Since they have a small hand, they have, must have exhausted a bunch of resources to like reach for that knockout on the Bolton. So I just felt like buy yogurt and I put myself in a, just more consistently good situation. So I, you know, it didn't really end up mattering, cause my opponent drew so bad. so I was able to electrify boss up the blind, the next turn Kao with the Bolton and then kind of snowball from there. so it didn't matter, but I do think my play was, correct on average. There, conversely game one as well, made a very astute, observation towards the end of the game. So, I basically the game played out where I took a couple of prizes, and was able to power up a peak around. I think, I think I took a prize with, he came out of Bolton and I was able to, uh, set up a peaker, um, full blitz to another peaker. Um, he You know, my, my first pick her, um, um, and I was able to, uh, set up the second figure on stamp him to one because he had taken five prizes. Um, and I had four prizes left and he had a blend active with three energies. Bench was full, uh, one card hand, and I full blitzed. CalEd the blouse to go to three prizes, setting up tag mode for the next turn. But what I should have done. And what was all said is I should have just passed with my picker I'm in the act. And the reason for that is that I could, I had all the cards in my hand, to attach the six energy boss up, maybe Crow bat or something like that. And he had, or Corey on the bench and I could have tagged melted that way for four prizes. So that was like a very, I didn't even think about that at the time. So I gave my opponent and out to win where, He did have an out to win in that situation with a stamped one. If he hit boss exactly boss off his stamina to one, plus the drop, then he could have won because I had an LD gods from the bench and a hearth was in play. so it did give him an out, but, my, my choice probably gave him more out.
Brent:Right. you know, I mean, uh, Hey, those rules are very good at Pokemon.
Mike:Yeah, he is.
Brent:Like what's funny is I wonder if, if he had been sitting in your seat, like, yeah. I mean, how many people, nine turns into a game say would have passed.
Mike:Yeah, right, right. I have, I have this peak around with five energy in the active. My opponent's got this fully powered up lown. I'm just going to pass.
Brent:Yeah. Yeah. Like it's, it's a, it's such a, like, non-intuitive kind of non-linear play. Right.
Mike:Yeah, yeah. but, so, so yeah. The other thing that mentioned as you talked about it, I probably speak about both games. I haven't played the match up too much, that I am confident even really on when to use speakable. My, my theory is that the best time to used speakable is immediately. And you just want to use speakable, take a cup of maybe like Kao Geraci or two, and Marnie keep Marnie in them because they can like Intrepid sword and build up their hand and hearts and build up energies. And eventually there's going to be able to kill the decouple, but really, I think what you want to do is just speakable. Marnie them constantly and set up the tag bowl play. so I think that's the best way to use the beagle. I don't think it makes sense really to like save it for later. Um, but I could be wrong.
Brit:I was just sort of laughing. Um, I actually lost two, so I played Blaume's for 30 rounds last night and I lost a mere that was playing, uh, a channeler. I was just gonna sarcastically ask if you, you, as a Vic of volt play, you know, with a Vic of old, if you would be threatened by a one of challenge, a channeler,
Mike:I
Brit:I thought about it. And I said like, wait. You play it and then you just better have everything you need. Like it's, you don't get it. You don't play it like, you know, with, um, Pokemon ranger, again, seismic toad, you know, say I'm playing night March, you play it and then you pop off and you win the game anyways. Whereas here it's just like, I'll attach
Mike:still need to have like a 10 card hand.
Brit:Yeah. You just have to have everything already, which doesn't work because the combination is item lock and disruption, not just like
Mike:Right. Yeah,
Brit:I just thought it was pretty
Mike:that seems silly.
Brent:Yeah. Yeah. Like if, if you, if you get to that hand size, the guy's already like, Trying to Marty. Cause he worries. Like it could just be a handful of fire energy and you're already going to get there. You don't have to do anything. That's crazy. Anything else that we should talk about? So, so then you're your exact same list? One 24 hours later again, but it was not you because I assume you were worn out.
Mike:Yeah, I didn't play yesterday, but yeah, that was cool. I saw, you know, a handful of people played the same 60, I S I went back and I looked the guy that ended up winning in top 16, played a 60 card mirror in top 16, which was kind of cool. Um, and then ended up winning the event. The guy that won also top eight is the chill event as well. He played ADP Z though. Um, yeah, so that that's very flattering. so I guess just like. A couple of things to like discuss, we already discussed the four, four research Marnie and ya'll grant. I think the vehicle is a flex spot. especially after this weekend of, you know, beating blind without it. The only other matchup that it's really, really good against is whimsical. I used it like once or twice and some other random match-ups, but you know, not, it's not super great. So the, it could be cut for a number of cards. If you want to cut it for another Pokemon, the one that I'm going to try as a running tab of Coco VI, but teams. Okay. That was kind of like Indianapolis earlier this year gives you the option of 200 for three, which is pretty nice. Has pre-retreat spray. Nice. So I might try that.
Brit:Are there I'd have to look. I can't imagine there aren't very many, but really the only, the only thing on my mind that I see all like, Perhaps elevate that kind of general structure of the deck to something better as like, are there any surely there can't be that many, like lightening Pokemon out there since you don't play any other colors, but like, You know, like the, the Charles R GX and MuTu is it's a terrible evolution and it's just very good. And the deck, I, you know, the jolty on GX that we've talked about is, is probably the only thing that fits, but I just, I wonder what, what are they, they're options are out there. There's gotta be maybe an evolution or two that maybe MuTu would be situational in. Good for. I definitely agree on kind of pickable. Underwhelming for the most part, I think at least, um, I imagine in the lightning Aurora MuTu deck, it's a little better it's I think it's terrible. the Aurora deck that I've the welder version I've been playing. I've like never it. I've used it once against whimsical and they just killed it pretty quickly anyways. Um, yeah, completely different decks, but I, I, I wonder on. How good at the start of the format, I was really kind of into the card. I thought, you know, I would take advantage of most decks, not real. I have playing too many switches and maybe burning too many of them early. And I would just win games through that. But I suppose too slow, which is funny. And that just like 50 damage it turn just, ain't what it used to be. You know, sometimes size on the toast. 30 take you the distance, but now. Now, you know, back then to seismic, total lose to the mega decks sometimes simply because they could evolve under trainer lock-in would just have too much health and would just do too much damage. Um, only in a short, in a short couple of years, that's just out the window in terms of where our numbers are now, but that's definitely just like why VICA struggles is. Just doesn't do enough.
Brent:So, so here's a question for you guys. This is a historical question cause I, I started to develop a theory and I want you guys to, to validate it for me. Like what are the interesting things about that? I wondered about as I saw vehicle, it seemed to not really kind of find its place in this format is, and when they printed seismic toad, seismic toad was like, uh, one of people put in a belt, both X, like it, like, it was not nearly as hot. Like the, the quad seismic toe didn't emerge until later. And I wondered if that's a function of like the way formats work. And if we wait until if we wait six months and they've added two more sets, people will have just more item, heavy decks. And as they transit, like, you know, there's just more items in the format and item cards are good because you can play a lot of them. And then like people will have more item, heavy decks, and suddenly like a Beka bolt might find its way. I don't know if that's exactly why seismic code got so much better later in the format. So it made me wonder, like, you guys would have more history with like item, like decks. Is that, is that a thing? Like do item lock decks become better the further into the year you get.
Brit:can. And I think definitely with seismic hood, you look at Phantom forces being just an item set. That's where Knight March comes from. Um, and that of course made seismic, towed a lot better, especially with Trump card and things like that. But I would actually say, um, I'm not sure in terms of what usually happens, but with seismic toad, uh, I will say, or at least offer that. I don't. I think seismic totem was broken from day one and we didn't catch it fast enough. I know Jason for instance, played quad seismic towed. At the first event, it was legal. Um, And I, I, I think it just took a while for people to catch on. So much of that those years were the years that seismic Todd had just come out with when we were kind of awkwardly caught between standard and expanded. And like, it was just such a waste because no one really played expanded. People just made their standard deck better and would switch for the next day. Um, and yeah. And so in that case size went to the more cards you have, the larger your card pool is. The problem, the higher, the higher number of good trainers. There are air go train. Your luck is probably is better and expanded usually for the most part. Um,
Brent:I mean, that's, people will be able play more items cause like they're like these, these 60 cards, they're all good. Right?
Brit:but yeah, I'm trying to, I'm trying to think the undaunted vile plume. I'm kind of blanking on its history, but like, uh, the other item or car that comes to mind is Trevena. And at one, uh, regionals, moment that Wally was illegal, um, I believe Aaron Tarbell won as soon as that, the kind of combination of cards was available to play. Um, but I'm, I don't know, kind of going really far back to the early two thousands, the annex era, what the item want cards were like, if there really were any.
Brent:Yeah. Was there a card like seismic toad that predated seismic out
Brit:Yeah, it was really the first one. That's
Mike:The first one really was
Brent:I defin
Mike:the metric X, like new trick. Right. So, I mean, that was. I don't remember when legend maker came out, but I'll let you make a written UVX. I don't remember what set metric the exit, but I'm pretty sure as soon as that combination was in the format, Sina and Jason started winning events with that deck. So, yeah, that was really the original disconnect or that's what it was called. Disconnect, the original quaking punch. yeah. And then Diagi like you said, Uh, I don't really remember exactly the timeline of out boom either, but it was in a lot of different decks. So it was quite good. It was in like VSL, Gore, mew, vial, poom deck. It was in the Shandel lower deck. It wasn't the truth. There wasn't a lot of different stuff. The other thing, I think that at least. I think you're probably right. That seismic code was very good from the start and we didn't realize, but I think the catalyst that made people realize how crazy it was was Trump card and how the synergy that it had with Trump card. Um, and then I obviously continued to be very, very good after Trump card got banned, but that was like the, you know, like I was at the, uh, the city championship that is, he showed up to it. That version of seismic toad and just like everyone was like, what the hell? Like, this is
Brit:gotta, we gotta get a hacks in our, uh, our people person
Mike:Yeah.
Brit:we talking about, uh, talk about Aziz and hacks
Mike:That was such, that was like, that was such an eyeopening experience. I think for like the player base of being like, this is not, that's really funny.
Brit:I like that deck, we broke, we broke it further for States and I just, I didn't win with it. Like Curtis won with it. And I just got like an auto loss, um, in my top area, that was just, uh, it was a Don fan with like a one, one ground on. And I was just like,
Brent:Did we, we were, we would already like migrate it into, the, egg block deck,
Mike:Yeah.
Brit:So yeah, I played that the next
Brent:yeah, like right before the shame
Brit:but I didn't have it
Brent:came out, we were like off of toad and into item lock or into, into spoiler lock. That just seemed, stronger for reasons. because I, I think there was like really no item based, or like not nearly enough item based on the format.
Brit:I think, I remember thinking that as that format went on, like I thought that size muttered could do certain things against executor. I remember I played toad bats at that regionals, like when I could have played executor and I can't remember really what changed, but you could. Make it better. They're just kind of retooling your deck with more trainers and things like that. And then sometimes too, your item lock could just keep them out of the game. Just as easily as they're supported a lot could keep you lasers were always kind of a bunch of RNG nonsense. Anyways.
Brent:should we talk about, colossal real quick? I mean, it seems like a colossal is a card that was printed to stop peek around from destroying the format, but that didn't work.
Brit:yeah, it might've been, but I don't think anyone is really all that surprised. I don't remember if we explicitly said anything, but my intuition the entire time was this part's terrible. Why would this card be any good? Um, because yeah, I think it, because it, it, it did do well, at least at one tournament. In Japan, but it had Diane C prism style. I had good support, whereas it clearly doesn't have now. I, I think it could still be broken. I just, I imagine, I mean, I guess I don't really know how often streamers, like Azule or chip really play like bad decks, how often their streams are split between like a real kind of practice versus just playing the means or whatever. Um, but I think someone could still crack it. Maybe it needs. The next set or something. I, I think it's a powerful card. Certainly a very good typing. Um, maybe,
Brent:Does that end up being better or worse than, than the surface? Which seems like, like I feel like that's the fighting card you see in more decks right now, just because muse a better deck than colossal colossal.
Brit:right. Yeah. I think it's exactly that the surf fetched is, I don't know, it's been always hit or miss for me. I'm not sure. I imagine it's probably similar for the lightening version, but like sometimes it will occasionally win me a single game and then as useless for the rest of the day, like I've, I've thought about cutting it before. I've I've never beat you turn out us with it either.
Brent:how many people tried to surf at you?
Mike:pretty much all of the, all of the MuTu decks played it and nobody ever attacked with it against me.
Brit:Yeah, exactly. That's what my exact experience as I.
Mike:nine, 10, 12, 12 games against MuTu decks, their answer fetch it attacks zero times. And I think that's just the consequence of it needs to are our energies. And so if you're planning a Tamar is like, it's very rare that you know, more than one sticks and like you need. Like, especially in the light university and the fire, version's a little bit different, but the lightning version, you need to either save your cocoa for it, or like you also need to attach a lightning to it. Cause it can't move the lightning onto itself. So you need like, you need to stick, you either need to attach to it or you need to stick to Aurora energies. And then the next turn. Placer fetch attach and then move it. And like you're never sticking to Aurora energies. You can stick one, but two is almost never sticking around just between knockouts and crushing Havers. So I don't know, it doesn't seem very consistent.
Brit:yeah, it's awkward. I mean, the times I have used it, at least some of them are the welder to it too, in the same turn. So you have an Aurora onboard, you attach an Aurora and then your welder one,
Mike:feels like, and that just feels like, I mean, if we went to the game cool. But like, if it's not, when you need a game, that's like a lot, like using a welder and your attachment, because now you're not welding for two. Right. And so you're welding for one, then that feels bad and yeah.
Brent:Yeah, well, and like, yeah. I mean, once you bench it and attached to the Aurora and then just like you're chilling, I mean, you know, it's like so linear. They're like, okay. I, I see it coming.
Mike:Yeah, right, right, right. Exactly.
Brit:you, I wonder, would this part be too good if it were a double list, do you think, do you think that devil fighting requirement is the main thing setting it back or would it really. I linked towards maybe like, I think I would still kind of be mediocre, even if it took double, double color. So it would certainly be way better, but I don't think it would be the, the nail in the coffin for these lightening or these fighting weak decks. I think it would still be kind of similar
Mike:Yeah, I agree.
Brent:Guys, anything else that we should talk about? Mike, once again. Congratulations, man. What'd you get there? That's the there's no better pod marketing than, you guys getting done.
Brit:you want, like one of the very few that are worth winning too. You got some, some Christmas
Mike:yeah, it was like, Kelly was like, you're going to buy me something nice with the$200.
Brent:I was about to say now she respects it. Right?
Brit:year in officially at pro player. Quit your job. Take that 200 to the bank. bank
Mike:on my thing. He was like, I think he's like, it's basically a regional win. And I wanted to say, I was like, yeah, with 96% less.